Hmmm...NWN Original Campaign is pretty good!

[ToddMcF2002]

So I'm a level 8 Cleric and I've got Tomi (halfling rogue) as a sidekick. I'm in Chapter 2 now.

Why do people dislike the OC? Its pretty good. The sidequests are fun in chapter 2 anyway. I've had at least 2 battles that caused a few reloads due to difficulty - always entertaining :)

So why all the hate?

[Delirious Nomad]

I wouldn't call it hate, but i have been expecting the quality of BG2. Only the OC was not the priorty of NWN1 , but the toolset. The first two chapters were entertaining but it went downhill afterwards. The second expansion Hordes of the Underdark had the quality the OC should have had (my English...oh well...).

[Fenris]

Back in the days, I had high expectations fo this Game... and when it couldn't hold a candle to the BGs I was totally disgusted... right now, after two years of collecting Wolf-Tails/Basilisk-Tails/Dragon-Tails in World of Warcraft I'm replaying the NWN OC and it isn't so bad anymore ;)

[GothicGothicness]

The original campaign is pretty crappy IMHO, the story was really bad... the characters were really flat, the game was really predictable... hmm there was hardly any freedom... in fact I can't think of anything good to say about it :D

[ToddMcF2002]

The original campaign is pretty crappy IMHO, the story was really bad... the characters were really flat, the game was really predictable... hmm there was hardly any freedom... in fact I can't think of anything good to say about it :D

I kill therefore I am? Certainly there is plenty of combat goodness!

[txa1265]

Why do people dislike the OC? Its pretty good. The sidequests are fun in chapter 2 anyway. I've had at least 2 battles that caused a few reloads due to difficulty - always entertaining :)

I also miss that one ... but then I only got NWN when it came out on Mac, a year later. I completely missed the hype and expectation, and played BG2 *after* NWN. Indeed NWN is the singular reason for my RPG love. Looking back, playing it again, I still like it quite a bit.

[dteowner]

I enjoyed the OC. It wasn't great, but it really didn't deserve the abuse it generally received. I think the biggest complaint is the fact that the structure of each chapter is incredibly similar- go in each direction on the compass and collect a widget. Obviously, there's only so many ways to build a chapter, but surely they could have varied something in the formula.

[magerette]

I think the issue for a lot of people was expectations. I played and finished Shadows of Undrentide and enjoyed it a lot, but the OC seemed very drab after the initial char creation--I think a lot of it for me was the camera/tileset being so clunky and the endless number of chests with 3 gold and a wooden club in them--the only game where I actually just stopped looting to get through the level. ;)

I enjoyed HOTU to a point, but it got so uber--I disliked having to pick thirty mage levels complete with spells and feats flatfooted just to begin a new character. I did import my monk from SOU and enjoyed about half the game, but got tired of the rote "find four pieces of the significant-to-this-level artifact and carry them to the authority figure" formula so well-beloved by the biowarean creative mind.

But when you compare NWN to a lot of the so-called crpgs out there now, it actually has a great deal going for it. It's all relative, I guess. :)

[Gorath]

I found the OC absolutely boring.

[Jaz]

I had no expectations at all when it came out, yet I found the OC so boring that I stopped playing straight after finishing chapter two. Tried to play through the game this year when I thought I had nothing better left to finish, but once again I quit shortly after chapter two, and set out to finish another unfinished business from way back (Nemesis: A Wizardry Adventure). I failed because it wouldn't run under XP, so I replayed the Towers of Darkness collection for the umpteenth time.

[CelesteGB]

I enjoyed the OC but then again, I was pregnant and my tolerance was pretty low and I was easily amused:biggrin:

Celeste

[Corwin]

HoU was excellent, the rest Ho Hum!! Most of the mods are far superior!!

[Lord Alex]

As a player, going from BG2 to NWN1 was... painful. However, business-wise Bioware were right to place more emphasis on the toolset, as it has given NWN legs like no other game before it. So, kudos to Bioware for focusing on creating a toolset that finally was (relatively speaking) idiot-proof. However, I honestly wish that HOTU was the adventure they came with out of the box.

[JemyM]

I completed the official campaign several years after it was released, directly followed by the two expansions. The NWN OC is ok for multiplayer but I believe it's bioware/obsidian's weakest. The expansions are better. One thing I lack the most in NWN:OC is the advanced companions im used to in their games.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Like TXA NWN was one of my first 'recent' RPGs, and I enjoyed it a lot. The storyline, the sidequests, the way even though the game is linear you can pick which branch of the quests to follow first... I really enjoyed it.
SoU was better though because of the companions (Deekin), HoTU I never finished because of the puzzles (I hate pull the level puzzles). Together with Morrowind NWN still ranks as my favorite RPG ever.

[HiddenX]

@Jaz

what problems did you have with Nemesis ?

mscdex problems ? there is a fix at vogons: http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=1715

[Diocane]

BG1, BG2, Icewind Dale 1 and their eexpansions were excellent games, BG2 of course being the pinnacle. But NWN was a big step down. Sorry, but the environments were stale, the oc was unimaginative and the loot system was unforgivable. After a short while of playing the game I knew the trapped chest on the other side of the 10 or so monsters guarding it was going to hold 8 gp. Or a cheap gem. Or a dagger.

I really only played till a little past Luskan and I had to recycle the game. I'm glad many others enjoyed it though.

[Cm]

I think the OC was a strickly love it or hate it mod. I got totally bored and only finished because I had nothing else to play at the time. The addons were different, and while I still didn't like SoU that much, HotU was great.
I think some of the player made mods for MP that I have seen outrank the game.

[Jaz]

@Jaz

what problems did you have with Nemesis ?

mscdex problems ? there is a fix at vogons: http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=1715

Muchas Gracias! :D Now let's try this again...

[Dhruin]

dte hit the nail for me. Chapter 1 - go North, South, East and West and get the Waterdavian creatures (predicably, one in each precint). Chapter 2, go N, S, E, W and get the Waterda-... oh, whatever it was. Plus, no proper party made the combat feel more like a Diablo style action/RPG (which is how it plays, particularly with a fighter). I didn't like Aribeth (and just to add insult to injury she came back in KotOR hiding under a pseudonym. I know who you are Bastila! You can't fool me!).

Finally...ancient world-building lizards? Riiiiiight.

[GothicGothicness]

excellent Dhruin I couldn't agree more :D

[NFLed]

In my view the OC of NWN1 was fine, not particularly good or bad either way. My two main problems with NWN1 at release were 1) very limited number of environments made the game seem bland and repetitive and 2) lack of any legit party control. I felt that if I went through another hallway with that diamond pattern repeated (supposed to represent everything from a person's home to a dank cave) I would scream.

[xSamhainx]

For me, the NWN OC just became too easy.

It just turned into rote repetition, the enemies were pushovers, and I never felt that i was in danger. NWN II is better about this, There's some battles where I've wiped pretty good and had to rethink my strategy.

But then again it's how I play that helps as well.

I only rest in towns, or at the very least, a campsite with a fire and all that once and awhile. For example, when I went on that crypt quest with the killer Goth kids from Hell, I had no clue what I was getting into. I was just exploring Blacklake District at the end of the night and everyones spells and abilities were pretty much used up. I got thru that one by the skin of my teeth with zero deaths, zero abilities/spells left, and lifebars a mere sliver of red. The way out was cruel, with all the dead enemies now turned to shadows but I did it, and it was easily one of the most thrilling gaming sessions Ive had this year.

I also dont normally let anyone fall, if a member of my party falls, I consider them dead and reload the battle. This "unconscious" business is lame IMHO. This makes it a tad more thrilling, especially if I havent saved in a while!

[Jaz]

Finally...ancient world-building lizards? Riiiiiight.What, they imported the Ancients of 'Traveller'?

[crpgnut]

NWN2 spoiler ahead!




Yay! I play the same way, Samhain. NWN2's biggest fault is the 5 second rest feature. The only fun way to play the game is to ignore that feature and only rest when it is truly feasible. I loved the final dungeon in NWN2 because it was the only one that harshly punished you for resting.

[txa1265]

I loved the final dungeon in NWN2 because it was the only one that harshly punished you for resting.

True that - *sure* this looks like a great place to take a little nap!

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Never played it. The Demo and the game itself (which was released on the CD-ROM of a German gaming mag a month or two ago) always crashed. I just guess my old GeForce 2 GTS was too weak for it.

[PatrickWeekes]

I was okay with the OC when it came out, didn't love it, didn't hate it (and this was well before I worked at BioWare).

Now, however, playing through the OC with my wife, I'm having a much better time. There's just something about seeing treacherous bad guy number seventeen and whispering to my wife, "Hey, what do you want to bet he wants us to go kill that OTHER bad guy, and he TOTALLY promises not to betray us?" She laughs, we go through the conversation, we kill stuff, ba-da-bing.

It's not a bad story -- it's just a story that was designed for multiplayer. Playing it with my wife, I have nearly as much fun as I do going around the table with my geek-buddies.

[Maylander]

Indeed, the story isn't that bad, and I do like Aribeth as a character. As many people have mentioned already - NWN was expected to be the "spritiual successor" to Baldur's Gate 2, so many people got disappointed, myself included. Of course, I think a lot would've been disappointed no matter what Bioware released at that point - when you expect BG2, you are bound to be let down.

[elkston]

I thought the OC in NWN was just "okay". It had its ups and downs, but was not entierly memorable like BG2. That being said, if strongly suggest you play the 2nd NWN expansion, Hordes of the Underdark ... I had a blast playing that one.

[ToddMcF2002]

I plan on playing them all. Waiting for quad core to get cheaper in April so all the old games are getting played now.

[ToddMcF2002]

Wow. I'm at the end of Chapter 2 and man I'm getting schooled!!! I had to fight Darktongue Breakbone outside the Green Griffon Inn near Luskan and I could not keep Tomi alive under any conditions. In fact I died myself at least 6 times. It took almost an hour!

Then there was the Black Wolf fight. Back to school!!! After dying repeatedly I managed to unsummon his familiar and that tipped the scales. That was a great move by yours truly! I don't think Tomi would agree - he be dead LOL.

Anyway. I was expecting an easy life as a Cleric. Not always, and I think Tomi needs a raise for all those trips to the bright light!

[Corwin]

Well, if you must use Tomi, you get what you deserve!! :p For me it was the Red Tiger or nothing!! :)

[dteowner]

I played it thru as a cleric with Tomi. My cleric specialized in summoning, so I always had some sort of critter helping out in combat. I think I got penalized on XP for doing that since I did every side quest and cleared every map and still finished the campaign at level 14. You've got a battle coming up that will require a whole bunch of duck-n-run and a handful of luck because Tomi and a cleric don't bring much firepower. You'll know it when you get there.

Tomi isn't great for combat, but ya gotta have some way to get into all those chests, eh?

[ToddMcF2002]

Exactly. If it gets any worse I'm going to have to backtrack and hire a different henchman for different situations. Kind of rediculous but what can I do? I'd certainly never quest in D&D with just 2 characters and this limited skillset - its a silly limitation of the original NWN campaign.

I also can't stand that I can only summon one beast at a time but again what can I do? I've heard this game is easy and that was certainly the case in Chapter 1 but things sure have changed. I'm guessing most people got bored in Chapter 1 and quit - hence the rumour that the game was easy.

[dteowner]

Stick with it. It will take some work, but you can get there. My cleric specialized in summoning and healing. Between those, I was usually able to keep Tomi standing. Although I didn't care for the similar structure of the chapters, I had a good time working thru the OC with my "party".

[ToddMcF2002]

The riddle at the end of Mutamin's Challenge

ROLFMAO!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA AH AH HA HA

Talk about a dorks inside joke! Oh god I laughed my ass off my wife thinks I'm nuts. Well done Bioware!!!!

[ToddMcF2002]

So I finally made it to chapter 3. Chapter 2 started slow but ended with some great stuff. Had to snicker at the start of Chapter 3 though - hey its another North/South/East/West hub and I've gotta get some stuff in each direction! How innovative!

The action and occasional fun pun puzzles do keep things moving along though.

[cutterjohn]

So I'm a level 8 Cleric and I've got Tomi (halfling rogue) as a sidekick. I'm in Chapter 2 now.

Why do people dislike the OC? Its pretty good. The sidequests are fun in chapter 2 anyway. I've had at least 2 battles that caused a few reloads due to difficulty - always entertaining :)

So why all the hate?It's boring. It's as linear as it can get. It has the borked bioware real time combat system. The storyline, such as it is, is completely predictable and uninspired. Lousy NPC A"I". etc.

And that's with never having bothered with it until the Diamond edition came out, so I got all the improvements made by the 2 expansions plus all the patches up to that point. Nothing will ever fix Bioware's thoroughly awful combat system though. It's worse than G3's, and has been that way since Baldur's Gate as it's remained more or less unchanged since then.

[Maylander]

I always use either Grimgnaw or Daelan. The rest are too suicidal, and will constantly lead to reloading by getting themselves killed.

[ToddMcF2002]

Sorry cutterjohn, I disagree wholeheartedly about the combat system. Its surely sucks to not have total control over multiple characters but I tend to pause every few rounds and modify tactics to suit - its entertaining.

The story/quests are a mixed bag but there is some great stuff here. Finding the snowglobe and freeing Nax last night was pretty interesting. Teleporting inside the snowglobe - well that was just plain creative! I'm not bored at all. If the expansions are as good as everyone says then I'll be playing NWN for some time.

[txa1265]

Sorry cutterjohn, I disagree wholeheartedly about the combat system. Its surely sucks to not have total control over multiple characters but I tend to pause every few rounds and modify tactics to suit - its entertaining.

I know that many people have problems with NWN, and I think that coming from full party exploration in BG2 and full party heavy combat in IWD. But I didn't play those before NWN, so I was experiencing it fresh with the last prior RPG experience of mine being Diablo right after Christmas '96. (and I got the Mac version, which released in August '03!). So I missed the comparative factor ... but NWN really made me love RPG's on so many levels that it is interesting reading the most negative of comments ...

[ToddMcF2002]

I came for the traditional perspective and initially had a problem with the lack of a party. This is not my first attempt at the OC in fact - I tried it multiplayer. I found that extremely boring, far too easy and barely tactical since I couldnt pause the combat at any point.

Using Tomi (who is somewhat weak) I find the combat more challenging and engaging. When I summon something the marginal control I have over the henchman and the summoned adds a bit more interest to combat tactics. We are not talking ToEE here by any stretch but the combat is interesting enough.

[ToddMcF2002]

Well I just finished it. That really was NOT EASY!!!! Anyway... all haters are out to lunch. That was fun!

On to the expansions!

[JDR13]

I know that many people have problems with NWN, and I think that coming from full party exploration in BG2 and full party heavy combat in IWD. But I didn't play those before NWN, so I was experiencing it fresh with the last prior RPG experience of mine being Diablo right after Christmas '96. (and I got the Mac version, which released in August '03!). So I missed the comparative factor ... but NWN really made me love RPG's on so many levels that it is interesting reading the most negative of comments ...

I think I would also have enjoyed NWN a lot more if I hadn't played BG1&2 and IWD first.

After playing those games, NWN seemed dull and lifeless in comparison.

I'm not trying to bash NWN or start a 'which is better' argument. I just hated the fact that you didn't have direct control over your NPC's in NWN. Combined with the fact that you could only have 1 (or was it 2?) NPC's with you at any given time, it seemed like a step backwards compared to the earlier Bioware games.

[txa1265]

Well I just finished it. That really was NOT EASY!!!! Anyway... all haters are out to lunch. That was fun!

On to the expansions!

W00t! Then grab the premium mods - especially the free Daggerford one by Lord Alex :)

[CelesteGB]

Oh and try the Aielund Saga...I really enjoyed that:)

Celeste

[Role-Player]

Painful would be a good word to describe the OC. It's hard to walk away from Baldur's Gate 2 and find NWN to be anything but bland, and it doesn't stand out on its own either. The rigid setup of the main story arc stands out, along with the suicidal hirelings, too many poorly designed quests, abundance of unecessary combat, and a static gameworld.

[txa1265]

It's hard to walk away from Baldur's Gate 2 and find NWN to be anything but bland, and it doesn't stand out on its own either.

I find these hard to be taken together - whether or not they are true, once you have played BG2 you are unable to view NWN without that filter of expectation and personal bias. Not saying you are wrong, since it is subjective, but our experiences shape us, therefore we cannot objectively take the perspective of not having had a certain experience.

[dteowner]

Unless, of course, you never did actually play BG2.

[txa1265]

Unless, of course, you never did actually play BG2.

My point was that it is impossible to simultaneously comment on the experience from a perspective of having played BG2 and *not* having played BG2.

[Role-Player]

I find these hard to be taken together - whether or not they are true, once you have played BG2 you are unable to view NWN without that filter of expectation and personal bias. Not saying you are wrong, since it is subjective, but our experiences shape us, therefore we cannot objectively take the perspective of not having had a certain experience.

True but my point was that even if I had not played Baldur's Gate 2, I would still have other titles to judge it by, like Fallout, Daggerfall or even Arcanum. And NWN couldn't hope to compare.

[Relayer]

NWN was bland...extremely bland, and painfully repetetive.
The characters, story and writing were also mostly dull.

The first expansion was a bit better but still not great - HoU was actually a step in the right direction.

I'm currently playing NWN2 and it's leagues ahead of the first game in character interaction/dialogue alone. And while a bit linear so far, it's just more fun to play and doesn't feel "predictable" (yet).

[ToddMcF2002]

I'm playing SoTU now (1st Expansion) and indeed it is better than the OC. The henchmen selection really sucks though. I'm a rogue(3)/wizard(2) and since there is no fighter henchman available I have no meat shield. So... I'm solo for now. Kind of a pain in the ass. The only 2 henchman available at the school are a rogue and a sorcerer which is totally redundant. There is a Paladin but for whatever reason she is not selectable as a henchman.

[PatrickWeekes]

As I recall (and I could be off here), the half-orc dude is a Sorcerer/Fighter (or Barbarian?), and you can tell him to stop taking Sorcerer levels.

I went with Dorna the Cleric/Rogue and, depending on my playthrough, sometimes told her to stop taking Rogue levels. She worked well enough as a shield for me.

[Zaleukos]

Todd: You will also find a bard later in SoU, but I guess that wont help you:)

[ToddMcF2002]

I'm in the desert now as a Wizard(4)/Rogue(3). I'm pretty sure I can succeed with this character with the same hide + hit and run approach I've been employing. Now that I figured out why my Panther familiar was being such a wretched coward (henchman mod setting) I've got a decent allay.

I'm about to go Wizard 5 which will get me Haste and Displacement in addition to Cat's Grace and Bulls Strength. We will see. Too late to restart now!

[ToddMcF2002]

So now I'm on Hordes of the Underdark. I don't think I've played a game and its expansions without needing a break. Underdark is just awesome. I ended up ditching my SoTU character and rolling a new one that corrected some of the "errors" of that build but it is essentially the same character. The biggest pitfall was selecting a magic school. I got more evoker spells but it crippled me in the long run since I couldnt conjure.

Anyway - the progression in quality from OC to Underdark is pretty obvious. Really great stuff.

[Arhu]

Anyway - the progression in quality from OC to Underdark is pretty obvious. Really great stuff.

True, but what made me wait a looong time before starting HotU was the fact that Bioware chose to make it incompatible with multiplayer. I'm usually playing games with a friend of mine, if possible. We bested the OC and SoU but suddenly couldn't continue together? We were soooo disappointed!

In NWN2 it's possible again though. :)

[ToddMcF2002]

I had the opposite experience. I tried the OC with my brother. Its was simply too easy so we got bored and quit. About 6 months later I picked up our game solo and I'm still playing.

[Arhu]

I had the opposite experience. I tried the OC with my brother. Its was simply too easy so we got bored and quit. About 6 months later I picked up our game solo and I'm still playing.

Heh, I could imagine that you guys were too impatient. Normally multiplayer games are very quick and undemanding as far as the players' attention span is concerned. Think Diablo, Counter Strike or WoW. With NWN though you need to take it slow, read everything and most of all, give the other players an opportunity to read everything as well. Give each other time to shop, explore and think about how to advance and so on, rather than rushing through the game like in other MP games. :)

[Cm]

Todd, if you are playing MP you can change the setting to hard if you like. That is if you are hosting.
Sands of Fate and Gem Tower are two great mods as well. The rating system on the NWN vault is reliable. You will find a lot to enjoy IMHO.

[ToddMcF2002]

I always read everything. The problem is the OC was so strait forward what was the point of reading? It got tedious. I never knew there was a difficulty setting. When I played solo it was much harder and more engaging so it was easier to take it slow. Generally I don't play games like Diablo or MMO's so I can't speak to those.

Thanks for the heads up on the mods!