The Broken Hourglass - Story & First Screens @ Official Site

[Dhruin]

Planewalker's update for The Broken Hourglass this week is Chapter 5 (http://www.planewalkergames.com/content/view/61/1/) of the story On the Fly, which brings this serial to a cliffhanger conclusion:
In that instant, Lyrio realized he would crash. He had to make a choice if he wanted to avoid it. He could maintain his grip on Zephra, and the glider frame would inevitably break in two. They would both tumble into whatever fate the remains of the maelstrom had in store. His alternative was letting go of Zephra's dead weight. He might manage the glider over the city walls with a lighter load on the frame, perhaps as far as the channel if he took it gently. The leapwood creaked and bowed as Zephra continued to hang limply over the crossbar. Lyrio made his decision. He swept the glider as low as he could, until the fragments of supporting walls threatened to scrape their knees. It wouldn't be such a bad fall, Lyrio thought bravely. He might even manage a full landing if he was lucky...
Lyrio blinked as a wall seemed to appear out of nowhere before him. The air swelled in a buzzing aftershock, and he reacted in blind terror.
...and the first three in-game screens (http://www.planewalkergames.com/content/view/62/1/) are on offer, showing a fight in the arena, the city streets and a long-forgotten tomb.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=3389)

[szokol]

Are these Commodore64 screenshots?
They look like from a 20 year old game.

[Fenris]

Are these Commodore64 screenshots?
They look like from a 20 year old game.

*sigh*

What's wrong with a C 64... Games were better back in the days anyway :)
Ok, you needed things like imagination and brain to play, both are no longer needed in modern gaming...

Those of us who perfer story and gameplay over Graphics can hope for Broken Hourglass and Age of Decadence... for rest there is Oblivion ;)

[Maylander]

It's an oldschool RPG, infinity engine style, like Baldur's Gate and similar games. Those old cRPGs are still considered the kings of the genre by many, and probably always will, so a few small developers from time to time, often semi-proffesionals, make such games as their debut game or as a hobby because it's a passion. Noone expects them to sell millions world wide, but they feed the hunger of the hardcore, and allows developers to fully focus on story and lore instead of whatever sells best.

I will most likely try this game when it comes out, and I support its development.

[szokol]

Nothing's wrong with C64, great games was written for that computer.
I complitely agree that graphic is not that important in an RPG game, I tried to say it is the XXI. century, there are minimal expectations.
Even if it will be the best RPG ever, these screenshots will make a lot of people to think that this game is bad, and they won't try it.
Nonone will buy an ugly car, if can buy a nice one.

[screeg]

I complitely agree that graphic is not that important in an RPG game, I tried to say it is the XXI. century, there are minimal expectations.
Even if it will be the best RPG ever, these screenshots will make a lot of people to think that this game is bad, and they won't try it.
Nonone will buy an ugly car, if can buy a nice one.
They certainly aren't cutting edge graphics, but I disagree that they don't meet minimal expectations. They look about halfway between BG and Temple of Elemental Evil. I think they could have put more work into the backgrounds, muddied them up a bit, but these screens take me back. The only thing tempering my anticipation of this game is the unfortunate decision to stick with "turn-based with pause" combat instead of just doing turn-based.

As for the car metaphor, how do you explain the Volvo?

[txa1265]

I do unfortunately agree and concede that the audience for the game will be limited by the graphics - but they are clearly a step above Spiderweb, which does quite well for an indie developer turning out niche product.

[crpgnut]

Spiderweb mostly succeeded because Mac players had no other choices. Since a lot of Mac players can play pc games now, Jeff is having to crank out a new game every year. They're all starting to look and play alike because of this too. I'm curious to see what happens to Jeff in the next couple years. Will he evolve or be part of shareware history. Time will tell....

[Decado]

The graphics are definately a step below Baldur's Gate 1 (and not even close to ToEE).

I'll still give it a chance, though. Definately looks better than some other indie studios like Spiderweb. The gameplay and system sounds pretty interesting, too. I'm also a disappointing that they're sticking with RT w/pause and there are a few other niggling issues, but I'm still eager to see how it comes together.

[Dhruin]

I'm a bit surprised by the negativity. The graphics look quite nice to me for the sort of product they are trying to produce. Players that demand high-level graphics were never going to be interested in this title in the first place and given that it won't be a retail boxed product, most of them will never even hear about it. The car analogy is a bit specious -- it's irrelevant that Ferrari makes sleek cars if I'm looking for a pick-up truck.

If you want a diverse RPG market, it's time to come to grips with the fact that this is what indies are going to produce. If you're happy with the current crop of AAA CRPGs released each year, don't waste your time looking at an indie game.

[txa1265]

I'm a bit surprised by the negativity. The graphics look quite nice to me for the sort of product they are trying to produce.
True, but I think we're all responding to the initial 'those look 20 years old' comment. And I think that the sad and unfortunate reality is that while many of us have no issue with those graphics (certainly don't stand in *my* way!), others place a great deal of emphasis on them and therefore it limits the overall potential audience. I think that says more about gamers than developers, but still ...

[Dhruin]

Yeah. I think this is a promising indie, so I guess I expected some excitement when I posted the newsbit and overreacted when I looked at the comments.

Looking good, Jason! Some dialogue screens, please. :)

[User Name]

They're ugly as fuck. I'm somewhat disappointed after seeing the screenshots. I know compton-wei fellows are involved in bg-mod scenes for a long time so I expected the graphic to be at least bg quality. But these samples look pretty bad. They're definitely backward; almost as bad as spiderweb games. As someone earlier said, it' 2007 and there's minimum expectation and these samples just don't cut it at the moment.

[Cormac]

Nothing wrong with the graphics, the backgrounds in my opinion look rather good.
I am excited (except about the real time with pause combat :'( ).

[ToddMcF2002]

I'm a bit surprised by the negativity.

I'm not! ;)

[KazikluBey]

The screenshots look nice, but somewhat empty. In the IE games all the city maps had lots of debris, barrels and trash lying around, which gave the backgrounds a worn-in feeling that is missing in these screenshots.

Todd: Even the Codex wasn't negative. Actually, they were even rather positive.

[ToddMcF2002]

The screenshots look nice, but somewhat empty. In the IE games all the city maps had lots of debris, barrels and trash lying around, which gave the backgrounds a worn-in feeling that is missing in these screenshots.

Todd: Even the Codex wasn't negative. Actually, they were even rather positive.

I know the Codex is postive about this release - they arent negative about everything. They tend to be pretty positive when it comes to indie RPG's or anything that passes all the criteria of a "real" RPG. I can appreciate that sentiment.

[Dhruin]

While I'm a bit disappointed at the reaction, I don't think there's much in common between the RPG Codex forums and ours, some common posters aside, for better or worse. I don't think the site can be characterised as "negative" -- but I don't think it's particularly surprising that CRPG fans might generally be disillusioned with the market. Each to his own.

But these samples look pretty bad. They're definitely backward; almost as bad as spiderweb games.

They're not even close to Spiderweb's. And "minimum expectations" for what? Obviously that means Spiderweb is waaaay below your minimum expectation (fair enough - personal choice) but he is clearly the leading (arguably only) indie CRPG developer at this moment, so it seems disingenuous to me to expect way beyond the market leader. Conclusion? Indie CRPGs aren't for you. *shrug*

[ToddMcF2002]

Maybe I'm overreacting about the negativity. I find things to enjoy about alot of games that fit the RPG mold and others that stray toward action or cater to a wider audience. With few exceptions most games have promise or are just plain fun if you relax and enjoy them for what they are - instead of shredding them because they fall short in some aspects. Of course I'm talking about Oblivion - but the point is the game has positive aspects and deserves some recognition.

So Broken Hourglass lacks some in graphics. So what? Does it have a great story? Will it have a fun combat system? Deep rollplaying? Give it a chance folks.

[Corwin]

Exactly the point Dhruin was making. This site and the Dot previously have always been big supporters of Indie games. I enjoyed Oblivion for what it was, but it was a BIG disappointment in many ways; Daggerfall was vastly superior in most categories!! The AAA games deserve to be ripped when they don't match their hype, indies don't usually get much hype. I'd rather play a graphically poor Indy game that has depth and fun, than a pretty, but relatively boring console port like the big O!!

[abbaon]

You couldn't draw a fair comparison between the Codex and the Watch. Our users don't have a standing competition to see who can put on the most outrageous display of cynicism and loathing. We do see a little of that, and a few people have registered for no other purpose, but as long as the level-headed posters keep a sense of proportion then I doubt it'll develop into a problem.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

I think the problem lies with the light in the first two screenshots, the third one seems fine to me. The light in the first two seems to be plain white light, giving it a movie-set feel. the textures themselves seem clean and clear, no problem there, there is just a lack of atmosphere in the first two shots.

Anyway, the game sounds good to me, and I'm not going to judge a game on 3 screenshots ;)

[txa1265]

The more I look at the screens, the harder time I have seeing any issue ... I continue to be very hopeful for a fun game here.

[screeg]

Regarding Spiderweb, I think their continuing success comes down to two facts:
1. (as mentioned) They release games for Mac
2. The engine hasn't been updated since the French Revolution

How hard (or costly) is it to churn out title after title after title with the same engine and no-quality graphics?

Second question: Why do we have to choose between 10 year old graphics and Oblivion? Imagine if the only two restaurants in the world were a hotdog stand and Charlie Trotter's in Chicago. Or if the only two movies you could see were 320x240 YouTube clips of Buster Keaton and Mission Impossible 3.

[txa1265]

Why do we have to choose between 10 year old graphics and Oblivion?
I don't think we do - look at games from the last couple of years:
- Seal of Evil
- MetalHeart
- Restricted Area
- Space Hack
- Neuro Hunter
- Etrom
- Kult: Heretic Kingdoms
- Gods: LoI
- NeverEnd

... there is plenty of 'middle ground' in terms of graphics.

[aries100]

I don't think the graphics in the screenshots from the game is that awful. It is, afaik, similar to the lauoyt and visuals, of Baldur's Gate 1. The visual presentation of Broken Hourglass could, imo, do with a little more clearness/crispness.

To me, anyway, graphics is nice & all, but it isn't the reason why I buy a cRPG or an adventure game. I buy both these genres for deep gameplay, character interaction,
deep and vivid imaginative story lines, and the graphics should be be render a representation of this. Of course, even I do not want 20 year old graphics.

Personally, I would be fine with updated graphics from the Infinity Engine. (this is just hard to do, since all backgrounds, I believe, has to be handpainted). being used in crpgs. Or just the updated visuals/graphics from the Aurora Engine. NWN 2 meets this requirement just fine.

I, too, will be looking forward to this game...

[aries100]

I don't think we have to choose between graphics from 10 years agpo and Oblivion.

Kult: Heretic Kingdoms ---
Neverend
Gothic 1, Gothic 2
and
Newerwinter Nights 1 and 2

and a few others...

[jcompton]

Personally, I would be fine with updated graphics from the Infinity Engine. (this is just hard to do, since all backgrounds, I believe, has to be handpainted).

Area construction is similar in Infinity and WeiNGINE--both use a flat 2D map (which you can generate however you choose--render in the 3D package of your choice or hack it up by hand in MS Paint if that turns you on), overlays for doors and animations, and markup data which indicates "this is a stone floor", "this is a solid wall", "this bit over here is a container," "there's not much light here so shade the sprites darker," etc. We store that data differently and area designers deliver the information differently (I believe--I've never seen the in-house Infinity area creation tools, but I suspect their approach was different than ours), but the principles are generally the same.

We'll be running an area-creation tutorial one of these fourth Mondays of the month down the road, in fact.

[ToddMcF2002]

Jcompton:

Will you support widescreen resolutions like 1680x1050? I really like the Infinity engine graphics but the resolution choices - even with the community mods is pretty limited.

[aboyd]

Conclusion? Indie CRPGs aren't for you.
And I think you've hit on the theme for this thread.

I've played some Spiderweb games and a few other indie RPGs. The graphics for Broken Hourglass are a lot better than I'm used to... from indie games. So to me it looks great.

But even for commercial offerings, RPGs are not about graphics. They're about story, character, role-playing. I want to see polished text, good characters, good interactions, good chances to play my character in different ways. If RPGs are going to invest in something, better to invest in multiple, deep, well-done paths through the game. Don't over-invest in graphics. They only need to be servicable.

If that's a problem for a role-playing gamer, then that gamer sure doesn't belong over here in the indie discussions, and might not belong in the RPG discussions at all. Of course, that's a statement of belief, not a mandate. Any person is free to play whatever they wish. However, I'm not going to head over to a flight simulation forum and complain that there are too many switches and dials to learn. So I don't get why someone would come here and complain about games that appear to be doing exactly what RPGs should.

[Unregistered5]

Graphics don't make the game for example Gothic but they have to be reasonable or it just ruins the feeling for the game. Look at this crap this is just ridiculous lol.

[Avantenor]

TBH looks very promising to me. I líke it because of it's affinity to BG. The quality of the first pictures was amazing.

But looking at the new screens, there are some things that imho don't match. At first, these buildings seem to be be rather clean, wet painted in aniline colors. That's irritating, because a rooftop is never clean and these colors don't fit. Have you seen these colorful painted antique statues in Oliver Stones' Alexander film (Examples: 1 (http://www.zum.de/Faecher/G/BW/Landeskunde/rhein/geschichte/antike/ausst/artemis.jpg) - 2 (http://pages.unibas.ch/klassarch/club/2005/fig06.jpg))? Same problem. The colors look unnatural, artificial. The tiers in the arena are so regular that it looks like a hypnotic pattern. Everything is so ... perfect. All buildings have correct proportions, straight lines everywhere. This city looks unnatural.
My second point, the characters look very sallow and diffuse. Maybe it's because of the resolution of the screenshot.

Sure, I could use my imagination and tell myself, that this city doesn't look clean like a hospital. But if I was asked, this would be my critics. I don't ask for advanced techniques, but a little bit more realistic painting. What do you think?

Nevertheless, I'm quite interested in this game. Can't expect to hear from it's completion. :)

[Maylander]

Any game that is inspired by, or has any connection to, Baldur's Gate 1 and/or 2 is worth trying. :)

[Dhruin]

Sure, there are things that could be improved. It does look too clean and straight but it's (presumably) still early days.

[jcompton]

Will you support widescreen resolutions like 1680x1050? I really like the Infinity engine graphics but the resolution choices - even with the community mods is pretty limited.

Currently the engine window is freely resizeable and we am inclined to keep it that way, so you can customize the viewport to the size and shape of your monitor, your preferred playing style, with your computer's performance in mind, etc.

[ToddMcF2002]

Currently the engine window is freely resizeable and we am inclined to keep it that way, so you can customize the viewport to the size and shape of your monitor, your preferred playing style, with your computer's performance in mind, etc.

Yes please keep it that way. 2d art in the native resolution of an LCD panel is an absolute MUST. Thanks for the reply!

[jcompton]

we am inclined

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we see the danger of deciding to switch to the royal we halfway through composing a sentence and forgetting to proofread for all changes. Oops.

Anyway, yes, glad to please!

[txa1265]

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we see the danger of deciding to switch to the royal we halfway through composing a sentence and forgetting to proofread for all changes. Oops.

Anyway, yes, glad to please!

So long as you don't start referring to yourself in the third person then we can forgive you ;)