RPGWatch Side Quest: 2006 - 2007 Overview, Part 2

[Dhruin]

We continue our preview of 2007, covering more action titles, indies and speculation on a number of topics. Here's a snip:
Pulling back from specific games, will 2007 see any particular trends? Apart from the long-term general action-isation of the genre, it's hard to pick any movements with confidence. I'd like to predict the arrival of a thriving indie mid-tier market enabled by digital delivery but, frankly, there's little sign of a stream of new indies to follow this current batch. I'd also like to predict this year's diversity and new IPs will continue but, again, it's not likely...2007 is just a trick of accidental timing (assuming the expected titles actually ship, of course).
Head here (http://www.rpgwatch.com//forums/../show/article?articleid=22&ref=2&id=1) to read it all.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=3418)

[GothicGothicness]

. Sacred has been a huge success with over 1.7M units sold

Sacred really sold this much ?!?!! are you sure?


noted:
No grimnoire in the indie section this year :D

[Corwin]

Grimmoire?? What's that!! :biggrin:

I think the only other things which might be highly anticipated this year, are some really good mods for NWN2. As usual, a good, thoughtful article Dhruin!!

[dteowner]

Excellent finish to the article. I would say the crop of indies (assuming some of them are successful) might spawn some additional interest in the genre from major publishers. Read it here first--2010 should be a good year for us. ;)

[Dhruin]

Sacred really sold this much ?!?!! are you sure?


noted:
No grimnoire in the indie section this year :D

Yep. RPGDot's stupid new skin breaks old database entries but you can see the headline on this page (http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10075&games=753). That was 1.6M in 2005, so I'm pretty comfortable saying 1.7M over a year later and subsequent to the Sacred Gold release. In fairness, that would encompass Sacred + Underworld expansion + Sacred Gold, but the main point is that some games change the way the media sees things (Oblivion) but other games achieve similar success with no fanfare.

[Brother None]

Dude, you totally glossed over Fallout 3. Gamespot, IGN and other major gaming sites have already written their articles naming it "revolutionary", "innovative", "game of the year" and "the best cRPG of all time."

Get with the times, man!

[Corwin]

Unfortunately, while I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the reviews have already been paid for and written, I don't believe F3 is scheduled for a 2007 release, which was the purpose of Dhruin's article!! :)

[Avantenor]

Dude, you totally glossed over Fallout 3. Gamespot, IGN and other major gaming sites have already written their articles naming it "revolutionary", "innovative", "game of the year" and "the best cRPG of all time."

Get with the times, man!

:lol:

Thumbs up, Vasilii. You only have to believe, then things become better. Somewhat like an big eruption that destroys Bethesda's offices. :D

@article: Well done series. I just read it and think it's a very good overview. At least not as negative as our folks at Codex. :D

[Dhruin]

Dude, you totally glossed over Fallout 3. Gamespot, IGN and other major gaming sites have already written their articles naming it "revolutionary", "innovative", "game of the year" and "the best cRPG of all time."

Get with the times, man!

:)

I'm going to be careful with Fallout 3. I know what I think Bethsoft will do but I'm going to keep a neutral stance until I see the actual details.

[Corwin]

I think we're all scepticle, but keeping an open mind for the time being. If it's a post-nuclear Oblivion clone, then I won't touch it!!

[Avantenor]

I don't expect much, so I can't be disappointed. If they really create a true successor I will be the first one to gratulate them. If not... well, bad luck. I won't buy it.

[TheMadGamer]

I see the, 'Oblivion sucks' sentiment has permeatted this site...

[Dhruin]

I don't think so. Some like it, some don't.

[Corwin]

No, I enjoyed Oblivion for what it was, I've played all the TES games. However, It was not what was promised and if F3 takes the same path, then it will not be a Fallout game.

[Avantenor]

Oblivion doesn't suck. But it's not a game for poor old Avantenor who's to stupid to navigate via WASD and get the time frame for the next mouseclick. If this is what you want, ok, it's your choice. But FO isn't Oblivion and we are fans of FO, not TES. So why should we be happy if it becomes an Oblivion clone? Can't see any improvement in this.

Maybe Bethesda does a good job. But I think they try to "modernize" the game. Not only in technique.

[curious]

a common sentiment here is actually that many like the game they just don't think it is a good rpg. and since fallout happens to be on or at the top of people's top ten rpg lists (not mine though;)) hesitation towards bethesda working on it is obviously warranted. i enjoyed my romp through oblivion well enough for two-three weeks; though it is probably the only game i've spent over $40 dollars on that i've never replayed. ironic for a game that seemingly touts just that. despite the fallout franchise's following along with many mixed feelings about oblivion i am sure there are some out there like myself who probably won't touch fallout 3 without a demo. then again i could speak for only myself...

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

I see the, 'Oblivion sucks' sentiment has permeatted this site...

Why are you so defensive over Oblivion? You have the right to like it, others have the right to not like it.

I was a big fan of Morrowind, and I can't stand Fallout. But that has nothing to do with this, does it?
In this case, it is not even about Oblivion being an (good) RPG or not, but about the style of games bethesda makes and about the style of game Fallout was.
Top-down, turn-based, stat-based is very different from first-person, fast-action game play that needs player's reflexes.

I was talking to hubbie the other day, and we were saying we wished Bethesda and Obsidian would do a licence swap. I think that Obsidian's style would suit Fallout a lot better, whereas Bethesda's fast paced first person style would suit the Alien-universe so much more. The did the dark, dreary ruin thing with traps very well in OB, and I can see them do the same with derelict spaceships and such. And I really think an Alien-RPG would be served by a first person perspective for the extra claustrofobia.
Whereas Fallout would benifit a lot more from the story and dialog writing skills that Obsidian posesses (and which is bethesda's weak point).

Ah, well, they won't, and both games might turn out great anyway ;)

[Danicek]

Good article, nice series. Good work!

[Gorath]

Unfortunately, while I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the reviews have already been paid for and written, I don't believe F3 is scheduled for a 2007 release, which was the purpose of Dhruin's article!! :)

Then why is Sacred 2 in it? Isn´t the current target release Q1/08 ?! ;)

[txa1265]

I see the, 'Oblivion sucks' sentiment has permeatted this site...

I actually really, really liked Oblivion, put in >100 hours and picked up the 'Knights of the Nine' expansion on a great post-holiday sale for <$10 and plan to reinstall this weekend.

***BUT***

I have a great number of criticisms of the game, especially as regards to the hyperbole used in describing it in so many media sources and also with regards to its RPG qualities.

I do not find inconsistencies in enjoying a game while simultaneously criticizing it ...

[crpgnut]

I'm a huge TES fan, (I've played everything but Redguard), and I still look askance at the Fallout 3 license. I'm hoping Bethesda will make the spiritual successor to a great franchise, but I agree that they're not a real logical choice for it. Time will tell I guess. I'm definitely not going to preorder the game :)

[magerette]

Thanks for another great article. I hope you're wrong about the indie trend not flourishing thru digital download; but in another way, perhaps there would not be true indie games or developers if it becomes a mainstream thing.

[txa1265]

I'm hoping Bethesda will make the spiritual successor to a great franchise, but I agree that they're not a real logical choice for it.
I tend to agree with the sentiment that there is virtually nothing that they can do that will make the fanbase happy ...

[TheMadGamer]

But FO isn't Oblivion and we are fans of FO, not TES. So why should we be happy if it becomes an Oblivion clone? Can't see any improvement in this.

I don't mean to imply that FO should be an OB clone cloaked in a Sci-Fi setting at all. For some reason, I just can't seem to get inot Sci-Fi based RPGs so I never played FO 1 or FO2 to completion... so I would never presume at all what FO 3 should or shouldn't be like.

I just notice a sort of disgust about Oblivion growing on this board. The feeling I get here would be analagous to if any of us were 'cool' enough to be invited to some ritzy holleywood cocktail party... where it would be 'understood' by all that conservative ideals are the devil's work.

[TheMadGamer]

a common sentiment here is actually that many like the game they just don't think it is a good rpg.

You make a point I've read more than a few times on the offical OB boards and a few other sites that discuss OB. I think many agree with you. My problem with that argument is that there is no accepted definition of a RPG that most people accept. Try to achieve concesus in a thread to define what a RPG is... it won't happen. A few developers have tried to do so and probably regret it. The closest thing to a defined RPG is D&D... but even there many people hate D&D rules, and even within the D&D community, there are ongoing grumblings and moanings about the rules and direction of the property as it evolves from one iteration to the next.

So when I read statements like the one you wrote, that OB is a good 'game' but not a good 'RPG' it confuses me because my past experience, reading many many threads where people have tried to come to concensus defining a RPG... which has always lead to flame fests... it just doesn't make much sense... because nobody can agree on what a RPG is in the first place, but miraculously, many people can agree that OB is not a good one... I just don't understand that from a logic standpoint.

[TheMadGamer]

Why are you so defensive over Oblivion? You have the right to like it, others have the right to not like it.

Of course you are right. But I just notice the 'oblivion bashing' growing on this board and it's irritating me a little so I made the remark.

[TheMadGamer]

I have a great number of criticisms of the game, especially as regards to the hyperbole used in describing it in so many media sources and also with regards to its RPG qualities. I do not find inconsistencies in enjoying a game while simultaneously criticizing it ...

The difference between you and the average joe on the net is that you are actually thoughtful and have actually written a professional review of the game on gamerdad.

What I'm talking about is this sort of group-think that start permeatting message boards relating to OB that equates Oblivion with the word 'Bad' and everyone sorta just accepts it. I see that happening on this site. This wasn't the best place to put my remark because I realize this is about Dhurins article, but it started irritating me... please forgive my indescretion.

[txa1265]

you are actually thoughtful

As a good friend of mine said ...
I have you now! (http://161.58.5.90/Starwars/ihaveyou.wav)

;)

[fatBastard()]

My problem with that argument is that there is no accepted definition of a RPG that most people accept. Try to achieve concesus in a thread to define what a RPG is... it won't happen.

Shhhhhhh! Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP!! or you'll wake up Roqua. Once he gets started it'll take a stake through the heart or 7 virgin sacrifices to make him go back to his cave :biggrin:

I also really liked Oblivion. However, I also like women and wine but a woman with a body shaped like a wine bottle or a wine tasting like a woman :blush: is not exactly what I'm looking for. With a mega hit like Oblivion in their stable I would say that the odds of Bethesda *NOT* using the same engine, or at the very least the same "style", for FO3 are not looking good and I honestly don't think the FallOut "experience" can survive a transformation from a turn based and dialogue driven universe to a real time action driven universe.

I agree with Lady BirdHair ;) that it would be much better if Obsidian would be making FallOut 3 and Bethesda doing the Alien game.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I'm actually a little bit disappointed about not mentioning Drakensang, but I believe this is due to the fact that this game is scheduled rather for 2008 than for 2007. :D ;)

About indie games . I have a personal distaste for downloadable games. The reason is simple : If I burn it on CD or DVD, my self-burned legal copies simply don't have the same lasting time than CD-ROMs that come out of a manufactory.

And I want to have the stuff I buy physically in my hands, and this as long as possible, and not scrambling to dust one day (to put it rather extremely).

[txa1265]

I'm actually a little bit disappointed about not mentioning Drakensang

It was in Part 1 (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=20&ref=2&id=1) - in the Worth Watching section.

[TheMadGamer]

Shhhhhhh! Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP!! or you'll wake up Roqua. Once he gets started it'll take a stake through the heart or 7 virgin sacrifices to make him go back to his cave :biggrin:

Dammit. I just shot pepsi out my nose!

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Okay, I understand.

My short-time memory is just crap. :D

[txa1265]

Okay, I understand.

My short-time memory is just crap. :D

It was the swampweed mixed with mushrooms, I think ... you saw what it did to Den but had to try it anyway, didn't you?!?

[abr]

Sacred is one of the worst games I've ever bought. I don't know what I was thinking after playing the demo that made me go out and pay for that. Did anyone like that piece of crap? Age of Decadence is vaporware. There is no way in hell it will be released in 2007. That guys been talking about how it was just about ready to be released for two years and then coming up with some little thing he had to fix at the last second to drag it out another six months. It's no different than Grimoire and has about as much chance of ever being released.

[Corwin]

An interesting insight. I'm sure VD will be happy to comment the next time he drops by!! :)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

It was the swampweed mixed with mushrooms, I think ... you saw what it did to Den but had to try it anyway, didn't you?!?

Oh, I see. I've got to stay away from greenish glowing potions with purple spots in it, then. ;)

[MudsAnimalFriend]

Sacred is one of the worst games I've ever bought.
Ah, there's a game based on even worse design decisions than Obliv... cough... some other quasi-RPG that will remain nameless. Why do mob drops repeatedly consist of class specific equipment that your character can never - under any circumstances - actually use? Shifting through mountains of useless equipment is not entertainment. Neither is it any fun clearing monsters out of a room only to walk back in five minutes latter and find it completely repopulated. And if all these endlessly re-spawning monsters scale to your level then there's no point is killing them as, relatively, your character never increases in power - making Sacred one titanic exercise in futile repetition.

[Dhruin]

And yet, Sacred is one of the most successful PC RPGs released for years. In fact, without reliable Titan Quest numbers, Sacred's 1.6M+ copies arguably makes it the best successor to Diablo 2 yet released in terms of sales success.