What's so bad about Beyond Divinity

[JemyM]

I have been playing Divine Divinity for the past week and im really enjoying it so far. Appearently I was not the only one enjoying this game considering it scored very high in reviews everywhere. But Beyond Divinity did not get the same welcome at all. Can anyone tell me why?

[enodenroH]

But Beyond Divinity did not get the same welcome at all. Can anyone tell me why?

I played it for a few hours, a couple?, anyway, the game is so bad that I didn't want to play it anymore. I thought it was a joke.

It's not like Divine with its music and atmosphere.

In Beyond, you play with a character that you'll have to deal with the whole game. The problem with this bastard is this :

He has the most anoying voice I have ever heard.

You have to control him and your character in fights and the control is awkward.
I think that the graphics are a step down from Divine.

I still have it but dont have a clue if I'll ever touch it again...

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

In Beyond, you play with a character that you'll have to deal with the whole game. The problem with this bastard is this :

He has the most anoying voice I have ever heard.


That was a big issue for me as well... first of all being chained to this character, second of all the way the voice grated on my nerves. I tried the game several times, but I never got much further then escaping the first dungeon.

[enodenroH]

I tried the game several times, but I never got much further then escaping the first dungeon.

That's exactly my situation.

When you think of the game, you're sort of telling yourself, ahh, what the heck, this time won't be as bad or annoying...

Nope. It's still as unbearable as all the other times you played.

[txa1265]

The problem is that you are never really set up as a sympathetic character, there just isn't the same feeling of presence and story set up for you ... oh yeah, and the voice!

Because I tend to think of much of life through a FPS window, I think of it like comparing No One Lives Forever 2 and Contract JACK - same engine, gameplay mechanic and basic design - but one is among the best FPS games and the other is just crap.

[txa1265]

I tried the game several times, but I never got much further then escaping the first dungeon.

So true - I got the game really cheap on eBay based on someone at the Dot saying 'it isn't that bad' and put probably a dozen hours into it ... I have tried repeatedly and *never* again got that far ... I was recently moving offices at work and the disk was in a drawer and I though ... hmmm, maybe this time ... then I remembered better and said *NAW*!

[Dhruin]

Well...I might be that person. I don't think it's that bad (I scored it 80% in my review at RPGDot -- it's the one review I've always regretted and it hindsight would go for 65-70%).

First, it's important to understand BeyDiv isn't DivDiv 2 -- the intent from Larian was to do something a little different with the engine before moving on to a "real" DivDiv 2 with new technology.

BeyDiv ties you to a second character (an evil demon that it soul-bound to you), so you control two characters that can't be separated by far. The world is smaller and much of the game is set in demon/other realms, rather than Rivellon. The new open skill system didn't work as well as expected. For most people, this took away the things they loved about DivDiv.

The two-character thing doesn't work that well (they did that because everyone on the forums asked for a party) and disrupts the flow of the action/combat but it can add a little more strategy. The voice acting is awful, I agree.

I maintain, however, that if you treat it as a budget action/RPG rather than DivDiv 2, it's far from perfect but not "terrible". The first dungeon sucks, so you need to get out to feel the flavour of the game properly. If you have something better to play in your queue, you should go play that, but BeyDiv is a middling action/RPG if you approach it with the right expectations (and get past the first dungeon, and don't mind awful voice acting).

Look, be safe and don't buy it but it isn't the worst game ever like I've heard.

[curious]

i couldn't tell you as i haven't finished the original after it left me very heartbroken. i picked it up as everyone at the 'dot' had been mentioning it for a long time. i really loathe isometric rpg's, and besides hack/slash rpg's the only iso rpg i ever made it all the way to the end was the indie episodic 'siege of avalon'. (i've spent hundreds of hours with arcanum and the fallouts but never actually finished them) divine divinity was wonderful:great music, interesting story, and really a refinement of a mesh of the good qualities in other rpgs. but what killed me was i kept waiting for the opportunity to complete quests that turned out to be bugged. i must be in a wierd vortex that allowed me to play nwn2 so far bug free and gothic 3 through twice nearly bug free, but playing dd which was patched to some crazy high number and is more than 3 years old wound up with nearly a dozen unsolvable and broken quests. did anyone else have these problems with divine divinity?

thanks for the info Dhruin, i could deal with the bad voice acting, and less appealing everything as long as someone confirms the quests are broken so easily like in divine divinity. i really am a fan of indie/foreign developers and have no problem supporting them as long as they're not severely broken i can deal with any level of unpolish.


sabotain, neuro hunter, neverend, divine divinity-
why did you have to be broken so
like a rare book found on an antiquated shelf
your world enraptured me
following from one page to the next
'til i noticed that pages had been removed
or somehow forgetten alltogether
might has well of torn out my heart

[JemyM]

Hmmm. Do Beyond Divinity have anything to do with the storyline in Divine Divinity or is it 100% separated?

[JemyM]

Because I tend to think of much of life through a FPS window, I think of it like comparing No One Lives Forever 2 and Contract JACK - same engine, gameplay mechanic and basic design - but one is among the best FPS games and the other is just crap.

I actually understood this reference. I play every FPS with a story and loved the NOLF series, except Contract JACK :P

[Thaurin]

I have Beyond Divinity still lying around and the fact that a lot of people are badmouthing it worries me. Well, not really, because I also still have Icewind Dale 1 + 2 plus all expansions without ever installing it (and a couple more RPG's, by the way), but it seemed like a fun game nonetheless. Of course, I never played Divine Divinity, so maybe I'll like it more than you guys.

[Corwin]

I finished BD, and like Dhruin, I didn't think it was too bad after the first dungeon. If you think the voice acting is bad, you should have heard the first set before they changed actors!! YUK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The game is nowhere near as good as DD and the Battlefields get very tedious, but it fills in time if you have nothing better to play!! I'd give it 6.5!!

[zakhal]

Its not DD but I can still swallow it.

[crpgnut]

The biggest gripe I had with BD was that the plot was extremely vague. I had no motivation to play. If you read carefully through the manual and then play the first level, you can figure out which skills will be useful for the whole game. After that, you can ignore 95% of the skill choices and just pick the handful you actually will use. Larian lost me with BD and with their super long delay between games. I'm not sure that I'll give DD2 much of a look if anything else interesting is out at the same time. I'll just wait for the 50 patches and buy it when its in the bargain bin at CompUSA.

[txa1265]

I'm not sure that I'll give DD2 much of a look if anything else interesting is out at the same time. I'll just wait for the 50 patches and buy it when its in the bargain bin at CompUSA.

There is something to be said for my being completely 'late to the party' on RPG's ... I missed out on the release bugs and patches for pretty much everything released before KotOR ... now I do everything 'day of release' and pay the price :(

[JemyM]

I tend to avoid long games unless they have "legendary" status among gamers, but I tend to run sequels if they exist, so I am a bit twisted about BD. If it's not an awesome game and also not an actual sequel to Divine Divinity I might be better off avoiding it, at least for now.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

In Beyond, you play with a character that you'll have to deal with the whole game. The problem with this bastard is this :

He has the most anoying voice I have ever heard.
To defend Larian, I must say that the initial complaints about the ORIGINAL voice were so HUGE, that Larian completely re-recorded the whole voice acting for the DeathKnight !

Now - Larian went from the fire into the frying pan.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Hmmm. Do Beyond Divinity have anything to do with the storyline in Divine Divinity or is it 100% separated?

Not 100 %. I'd say about 80-90 %.

You'll meet a few people from Rivellon again, and the main character you pla<y (not the DeathKnight) is a member of an order of the Divine One in :div: .

And of course you see lots of Imps ! :D


The best part of the whole game was for me the Imp village. The music really made me cry (which was partly due to personal sad circumstances, and the music just fuelled these emotions). The Imp village is actually the most fun part of the whole game for me.

The war worst are the battlefields : Too long, too big ... although the idea in itself is quite nice, imho.

I think they even made the battlefields bigger due to some complaints.

[Acleacius]

Everyone covered most important issues but one many consider important (not everyone) is it uses the deadly startforce protection.
So if you are intent on trying it I suggest installing it on a secondary master drive or secondary computer to avoid any serious potiental problems. :)

[KasperFauerby]

Well, personally I also don't think BD is that bad. It's not as good as DD (but I also find that game to be amazingly good) but I had some fun playing through BD. I also didn't have that big a problem with the deathknights voice, but that could be because I'm not a native english speaker myself (which should be evident from this post I guess ;) As someone already mentioned Larian wanted to try out some new things, both regarding game design but also the technical angle to developing RPGs.

I have to mention that I'm not a developer at Larian, so the things I describe in the next paragraph is what I remember from their forums (which I visited a lot around the time when BD came out). Anyway, since I'm a programmer I'll describe the new things they wanted to try out in the technical department first. They recognized from their experiences with DD that developing a completely open game like DD was very very hard, and many bugs arised because the quests could be done in many different orders and different manners etc. So with BD they wanted to try and develop a much more linear game, which they split into 4 "acts", where each act is *completely* seperated from the previous ones. You can almost think of each act in BD as a seperate game. The (at least theoretical) benefit from this approach was that they could test and develop each act completely seperate from the other ones. Now, to make this work as a full game they just had to develop some system to transfer the two main characters and their equipment from one act to the next - but unfortunately they ended up having many bugs in *this* system :) This shows (or showed, don't know if they fixed all the problems yet) up as problems such as items loosing their stats when going between the acts etc.

They also changed a lot from DD in the game design - such as introducing the party-based gameplay, developing a completely new skill system etc. The main idea in the new skill system is that you can (again in theory) "shape" or "create" your own skills, by building them from a tree system. Whether you like these changes is a matter of personal taste I guess. Personally I agree with most other players that the system in DD was much better. On the other hand I don't really have a problem with games being linear, or even dungeon crawls - as long as the game is interesting I don't care if its an open or linear game experience. In the case of BD I just ended up missing the lush and green outside world that DD provided. BD takes place almost exclusively in dungeons, caves or dark alien worlds. Again, it's a matter of personal taste. BD *did* have some interesting moments and nice puzzles though!

Whether to recommend the game or not? That's hard to say. If you liked DD and can get your hands on BD I think you should try it out and make your own opinion of the game..

PS. Sorry for the length of this post :)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Everyone covered most important issues but one many consider important (not everyone) is it uses the deadly startforce protection.
So if you are intent on trying it I suggest installing it on a secondary master drive or secondary computer to avoid any serious potiental problems. :)

I didn't have any serious potential problems. :)

Furthermore, Larian did in extrem cases give the player a key, if they wrote to them.

But I don't know to which distributions this applies at all. I recently learned that only certain distributions in some countries can get this key.

But what's even better : If you *really* want the game without the copy protecten, then go and buy the German "Gold Games" compilation ! The version of :BD: in it doesn't have the Starforce protection at all ! :)

The worst thing that sucked was the distribution by Ubi Soft : After the game was sold out, they simply didn't manufacture any more copies.
You cannot believe how many people asked in the German part of the Larian forums for that game !

[JDR13]

sabotain, neuro hunter, neverend, divine divinity-
why did you have to be broken so
like a rare book found on an antiquated shelf
your world enraptured me
following from one page to the next
'til i noticed that pages had been removed
or somehow forgetten alltogether
might has well of torn out my heart

curious,
Where did you get a copy of Neuro Hunter? Did you import it?

[curious]

yes i imported it from the uk from a seller on ebay for around ~20 right around release. shortly after the average price went down to closer to 10. i wasn't expecting a great game but i thought it was still a good game that had lots of unpolished potential. it didn't have the emmersion of any of the games it tried to emmulate but it did have a lot of similarites. its for sure worth it i think if you can get it for under 10 bucks. i made it near the end but ran into some kind of quest bug that i spent 5 hours + going back through the whole 'world' (kind of like going back through the different levels in system shock 2) and still couldn't find the trigger. i tried different saves, but the only one that could for sure be problem free was at least 12 hours further back. i screwed up as i am normally quite liberal with my saving. some day i'll give it another go.

i think Mike has played the game also, since he's mentioned it in posts before, but maybe he just played the demo.

[curious]

by the way JDR13 thanks for reminding me of neuro hunter. i installed it this evening and after playing for an hour or so i am reminded how much i really liked nearly everything about the game. i don't see how some people can critize the graphics. i think they're great, especially for a company media art that doesn't normally make games. i guess it just takes a while for a game stopping bug to be forgotten/forgiven. hopefully this time through will be grand.

[KasperFauerby]

I enjoyed most of Neuro Hunter as well - except the ending which was kinda drawn out by having the player walk through the (now empty of monsters) levels again and again to get from npc A to npc B. That kind of game design really sucks!

Actually I remember one point in NH where I had just went from one of the lower levels all the way to the top to talk to a npc. He gave me an object and proptly told me to take it back to the low level. At that point I didn't really felt like going through the entire game world again, and then the game offered me hope by having my character say something along the lines of: ".. but there is such a long way back to npc A!!". I of course expected the response/reaction to such a line to be that the game would teleport me back to the low level somehow.. but it had no mercy :) The reply from the npc was: "Well, then you better start walking now, don't you!". Grrr... smart-ass npc!! :)

[txa1265]

i think Mike has played the game also, since he's mentioned it in posts before, but maybe he just played the demo.

I played for several hours, nowhere near the end, but like you got to a point where I was stuck and couldn't trigger to go further ... I wasn't as great about saves, and didn't like the game enough to work through it that much ... and other games were beckoning.

I got it also on import (I can't recall if it was a GoGamer special deal or eBay) for really cheap.

[Fez]

Beyond Divinity is to Divine Divinity as STDs are to sex.

[Corwin]

And you're the expert!!

[zakhal]

I finished beyond divinity last weekend. If you want to keep up with the story (continues in the next game) then you should play for its good. But othervice if you dont care about it then you might wanna atleast consider skipping this one. Even at the last version its still unpolished (with gimmicks) and there are better RPGs out there than this.

[Fez]

Oh look, my reply disappears with no private message for the reason for it. I guess Corwin doesn't like to play fair when he makes personal attacks. Pathetic. Either don't make personal attacks or at least be willing to take the same abuse you dish out.

Oh, and I'd like to add that I would much rather have seen the comments kept to opinions on the game in the first place, rather than cowardly insults that were uncalled for.

[Corwin]

Fez, we're very tolerant here, but there's some things we don't allow. You already have a history from the Dot, but we overlook that. Don't cross certain lines and we won't hassle you or your posts!!

[Fez]

So why is it okay for you to make blatantly rude personal comments then? My comment was only cheeky and slightly self-deprecating reply (containing no swearing) to YOUR initial insult. I'd say you crossed the line first.

[Corwin]

How is calling someone an expert, rude? Perhaps you felt guilty and took it that way??

[txa1265]

OK, enough!

Fez, let it go. You made a provocative comment that was a bit edgy and insulting to the game and unproductive to the conversation. I have no problem with that (I'm not a mod on this forum, though), but when you do something like that you need to be prepared to get it turned around - which is what Corwin did in a pretty light manner. I saw the potential for things to go awry, which is what happened when you got all affronted and responded with a personal attack. If you make a statement such as 'that is worse than kissing a duckbill platypus', be prepared for people to jab you about kissing a duckbill platypus.

[Corwin]

Thanks Mike, I wanted to end it too, but couldn't find a convenient way without appearing 'the tough mod'!!

[Alrik Fassbauer]

What is an STD, by the way ?

Maybe an STandarD ?

[Moriendor]

No. A Geschlechtskrankheit a.k.a Käsepimmel :biggrin:

[Alrik Fassbauer]

LOL :D

Now I understood it ! :D

[Fez]

OK, enough!

Fez, let it go. You made a provocative comment that was a bit edgy and insulting to the game and unproductive to the conversation. I have no problem with that (I'm not a mod on this forum, though), but when you do something like that you need to be prepared to get it turned around - which is what Corwin did in a pretty light manner. I saw the potential for things to go awry, which is what happened when you got all affronted and responded with a personal attack. If you make a statement such as 'that is worse than kissing a duckbill platypus', be prepared for people to jab you about kissing a duckbill platypus.

No, you've got it all wrong. I had no problem with that initial joke back at me, Mike. I quite enjoyed it and I took it as the joke I thought it was and then make a comment back in the spirit of the thing. What I found insulting was that my reply to Corwin was removed by him in secret with no reason why or PM. It's blatantly unfair and pathetic moderating to insult someone and then delete and hide all signs of their comeback because you want to make yourself look good. If you are willing to go back and forth it is fun and all good, but if you only insult and don't let someone come back with anything it is plain nasty and mean. If anything you should give your reply to Corwin who is the one who abuses his moderator powers because I turned around his insult. If Corwin wants to play with the big boys and insult people, then he should take the advice you gave there and take it on the chin and reply back, rather than being slimy enough to abuse his powers. A level playing field, as they say.

[abbaon]

He insulted you personally, then deleted your reply? Pretty scummy, Corwin.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Beyond Dinivity is now on the magazine's DVD of the German magazine "Gamestar".

[txa1265]

Beyond Dinivity is now on the magazine's DVD of the German magazine "Gamestar".

Making it just about the right price ;)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

And what's more, it is the first occation to get it after it here was sold out and Ubi didn't want to press new CD of it. (Apart from German's "Gold Games" compilation.)

Someone from the Larian boards asked the rhetorical question why they wanted to publish it anyway, then ? Even if they didn't believe in this game anyway ?

[Alrik Fassbauer]

There exists a brand new pack consisting of Divinity & Beyond Divinity : Golden Divinity Pack (http://www.amazon.de/CDV-Software-Entertainment-AG-Divinity/dp/B000JCF6SK/sr=1-101/qid=1169497842/ref=sr_1_101/302-0289119-8284869?ie=UTF8&s=videogames)

Source (http://www.larian.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=GeneralD&Number=313014&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

[txa1265]

There exists a brand new pack consisting of Divinity & Beyond Divinity : Golden Divinity Pack (http://www.amazon.de/CDV-Software-Entertainment-AG-Divinity/dp/B000JCF6SK/sr=1-101/qid=1169497842/ref=sr_1_101/302-0289119-8284869?ie=UTF8&s=videogames)

Source (http://www.larian.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=GeneralD&Number=313014&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

That's good stuff - another thing I don't see coming state-side ... but at least you can still buy DivDiv jewel-case for $10.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Jewel-case ? Here never. Only DVD boxes.

Nearly ALL games (except low budget) are in DVD boxes here nowadays.

What actually astonishes me is that the publishing rights für Divinity are held by CDV here, and for Beyond Divinity by Ubi Soft, so it must be a collaboration.

[cutterjohn]

Jewel-case ? Here never. Only DVD boxes.

Nearly ALL games (except low budget) are in DVD boxes here nowadays.

What actually astonishes me is that the publishing rights für Divinity are held by CDV here, and for Beyond Divinity by Ubi Soft, so it must be a collaboration.Um, it IS a budget release. AFAIK only compuslesses carry it, and it is usually found in their big racks of $2-$10 budget jewel case titles...

Actually, I bought it there, and, surprisingly, I really liked Divine Divinity. Usually I absolutely loathe action "rpg"s and real time combat...

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I never saw it as an action RPG, only later I found out that it was advertised as such.

Maybe that was the reason why some people didn't buy it ?

I don't know. I must admit, however, that there are lots of elements of traditional "action" RPGs in it.

And how did you find my poem ? ;)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

It's official now : The members of Larian Studios are working on a patch to make BD better run on vista.

Source (http://www.larian.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Rift_general&Number=314292&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Lar, the Chief of Larian Studios, added that the patch "basically removes the Starforce copy protection".

[Dhruin]

Thanks for your email on this, Alrik. I probably won't post it as news yet but please let us know when the patch is released.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

The Patch is now official and ready for download :

Announcement (http://www.larian.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Announcements&Number=315049&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

This is for the English version of the game.

I do hope that localized versions follow one day.