RPGWatch Feature: Two Worlds Interview, Part 1

[Dhruin]

We speak to Reality Pump about Two Worlds - their upcoming action/RPG, which features a huge, open gameworld. Can Two Worlds be the next Oblivion? Here's a snip:
Two Worlds features a vast terrain (about 30 square kilometres) open for free exploration. Several big cities, numerous villages, settlements, ruins, keeps and fortresses are scattered over thematically varying areas. You will visit high, snow-covered mountains in the north, dwarven foothills, green plains, rocky mountains in the south, desolated lands in the east and a big part of the desert. Architecture changes from area to area, and so do your opponents. Moreover, there are about 50 Dungeons.
Read Part 1 here (http://www.rpgwatch.com//forums/../show/article?articleid=19&ref=0&id=16) and watch for Part 2 as soon as we receive the remaining answers from Reality Pump.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=3491)

[Corwin]

A great interview, though I'll be more interested in part 2!! However, my one concern (common to several Euro games where English is NOT the main language) is will the translation used in the game, show a better/higher standard of English than is displayed in the interview?

[VPeric]

Sounds a bit like Gothic to me. For example: "every NPC is managed with the same, global AI module." -- definitely like Gothic. Unfortunately, it's developed for Xbox too, so it'll probably be more Oblivion-like. Still, hopefuly they won't have scaling.

I'm looking forward to it, in any case.

[Acleacius]

Great work, I didn't know too much about this but with an April release could be very exciting.
Wouldn't it be nice just to have a decent RPG mostly finished for once? :)

[titus]

If they deliver what they promise, we will finaly have something that can compete with the gothic Universe.
Or at least for us that rank gothic real high and as an sort of standard.
They seem to have it all. I so hope they can deliver and that I can play it on my pc then :D

[bjon045]

Sounds worth keeping an eye on and due out in only a few months!!! I just hope it's not buggy as hell.

[Thaurin]

Most of their answers sound like standard PR stuff, though. For once I would like a developer not describing their upcoming game with words like "vastly rich in variety," "exploring a huge world," "dynamic and sophisticated battle system," "astounding degree of 'freedom of decision'," "absolutely top-class RPG experience"... I know it's his job to do so, but really it tells me nothing.

[kalniel]

Looks are similar, but it'll only manage to be the next Oblivion if it provides as good out of box polish and stability, something other RPGs seem to have forgotten recently. :p

[txa1265]

I liked what I read, and hope they can manage to accomplish all they are setting out to do!

[Acleacius]

Am I reading this correctly?
In the right hand column under "Information About" in both catagories I see Platform xbox 360 nothing about PC, is this just an ommision in the Information About section?

[ToddMcF2002]

Its a dual release.

[araczynski]

cholera jasna, wreszcie :)

Looking forward to this one, definitely sounds like it'll play like Gothic, but looks way better then Oblivion even. Should be interesting.

[ToddMcF2002]

The "semi-automatic" combat sounds pretty lame. Does part two of the interview talk about that system?

[txa1265]

The "semi-automatic" combat sounds pretty lame. Does part two of the interview talk about that system?

Dhruin had talked about that in another thread (where I asked the same basic question). I think that the simple 'half-automatic' doesn't translate well.

The "half-automatic" combat turns out to be quite straight-forward; they just chose some rather awkward terminology. It means realtime combat based on a mix of player skill and character stats (half based on stats = "half-automatic"). I'm not sure where the line is but it might be something like Bloodlines where "to hit" was still stat based, as opposed to Oblivion, which is a little more weighted to player positioning.

[ToddMcF2002]

That sounds a bit more encouraging - Morrowind'ish actually. I can dig it.

[Dhruin]

@Corwin, regarding language issues, they asked me to say the translations will be done by native English speakers (as opposed to Poles who speak English, I presume), so they are apparently taking it as a serious issue. Time will tell how successful they are.

@ToddMcF2002, yes, I asked directly about combat and the "half-automatic" description. I don't have the remaining answers yet, so I can't say exactly how detailed the answers will be. :)

[User Name]

Isn't this game where a full plated badass knight is doing karate kicks? And Xbox?
Holy shit, this has Oblivion written all over. Funny thing is, this game will be almost a carbon copy of Ob but it's gonna get slammed hard for all the shortcomings instead of all the praises Ob somehow received.

[Corwin]

Hey, User, don't pre-judge a game before it's even released. If you're correct, no-one will buy it anyway, but if you're wrong, YOU end up looking foolish!!

Thanks Dhruin, sounds like they understand that poor translations are a real turnoff for many people. They can destroy a game for me; I want to stop playing and fix up the errors!! :)

[rpger]

From the looks of it, I see no reason to play this game over Oblivion. I doubt the graphical system is as developed as Oblivion's. The global AI system sounds similar to Oblivion's too, though less detailed or in depth. It could just be the briefness of this interview though.

The story does seem interesting, but there are too many "what abouts". Like the combat system, skill system, etc. Anyways, it does sound like it has some promise, but I agree that it seems too much like Oblivion, though not any better in any particular area. And it's a year after Oblivion came out. That alone doesn't bade well for this game. I'm all for new RPGs to play, but when it seems just like the last cool RPG, minus some extras/polish, I don't have much of an urge to play this.

Hopefully part 2 of the interview sheds more light into the game.

[User Name]

Me, looking foolish? A guy who joined a rpg gaming forum, the pinnacle of geekdom? Thanks for caring my reputation though. I just can't take a crpg company seriously when they have a full metal armoured knight doing 360 degree round kick just because it looks "cool".

[Acleacius]

While it may seem unrealistic in reality, do retarded demons coming through oblivion gates seem realistic to you?

However, it does show much better animation than oblivion and most every other RPGs on the market from what I can see, atm.
Personally, crappy animation is a real turn off for me, if I am playing in a fantasy realm where magic is abundant and even semi-rare metals (mithral) allows 40% weight reduction, who is to say some magically plate of dexterity can't exist?

The only thing keeping oblivion above the pack is the character gen and editor which allow Modders to fix all the broken parts and if it wasn't for the character gen and the editor oblivion could have easily never existed, since they bought nothing else important to the table.

Besides who cares if it looks like oblivion or not, better or worst, before or after most of all why would a RPGer care about oblivion?
Unless perhaps someone is confusing a stat based action game for a RPG, now that would be funny and embarrassing. :biggrin:

[Corwin]

Me, looking foolish? A guy who joined a rpg gaming forum, the pinnacle of geekdom? Thanks for caring my reputation though. I just can't take a crpg company seriously when they have a full metal armoured knight doing 360 degree round kick just because it looks "cool".

Hey, how do you know he didn't take Ballet lessons when he was a boy!! Good for the Dex you know!! :biggrin:

[bjon045]

I think Ballet raises your Agility stat not Dexterity.

[Corwin]

Could be both actualy, especially when some games don't use the agility stat!! :)

[Geist]

This part sounds promising:

We try to keep the adventure more mature and serious, steering away from hack’n’slash approach, where any creature and mission is good as long as it yields experience points. It is simply more rewarding for a player to be involved in serious conflicts and events and do something meaningful.

I've always believed that quests should serve primarily as a vehicle for storytelling and advancing the plot (with loot and experience coming as an added bonus). For me, the single most frustrating element in the majority of RPGs is the sheer amount of time spent on repetitive quests which are designed purely as stat boosters, but give virtually no new insights into the game world or the characters.

[aries100]

I don't understand some people's need to discard the old and proven methods of say making an rpg, or how it is that some people want new things in games the time.

Many books and movies also basically tell the same old stories; however they do it sometimes in a novel fashion. I think, personally, that his game could be nice
game, very enjoyable to play both for the casual and the hardcore player alike.

I particularly like the idea of having the woods and forests seen as some kind of dangerous place where all unkown sort of monsters live. (ths actually fits in rather nicely with what is known about how the general public saw the forests in the medieval settings in Europe; to these people the forests were dangerous).

While it may look similar to Oblivion, I do not think that the main quest is similar nor do I think that the overall story etc. is similar to Oblivion. I also kind of of like the feauture that in this game, you're a seasoned adventurer, which, to me, at least, makes sense, since this means that there is a reason behind you're being chosen to do this or that task, mission or quest in the game.

[txa1265]

Me, looking foolish? A guy who joined a rpg gaming forum, the pinnacle of geekdom? Thanks for caring my reputation though. I just can't take a crpg company seriously when they have a full metal armoured knight doing 360 degree round kick just because it looks "cool".

I think the whole thing is that we don't really know enough to make a definitive stance of the game yet - there are many things that look interesting, and many things that raise concerns.

[araczynski]

From the looks of it, I see no reason to play this game over Oblivion. I doubt the graphical system is as developed as Oblivion's. The global AI system sounds similar to Oblivion's too, though less detailed or in depth. It could just be the briefness of this interview though.


Don't equate Reality Pumps inability to properly bulls*it (marketing/pr) to the consumer (unlike Bethesda) with a weaker product. By screenshots alone Two Worlds looks much better. Granted, I'd still like to see a little longer in game footage. If you ask me, even an improvement in the handling of ground foliage over the sloppy pile of sh*t that Bethesda called grass in Oblivion would make me buy this game alone.

I just can't take a crpg company seriously when they have a full metal armoured knight doing 360 degree round kick just because it looks "cool".

perhaps, but if there's a story and real rpg elements there then i won't care about who dances with what on. Last I checked no RPG ever got the dynamics of armored combat right (probably on purpose). It'd be a pretty long/tedious/boring game if any did.

Personally i still find the concept of armored ANYthing casting spells left and right to be just as idiotic, but that doesn't stop every game from caving in and making that a possibility to every kiddie. anyway, to each their own i suppose.

[Cormac]

why would a RPGer care about oblivion?

Because it's a great rpg.

[txa1265]

Because it's a great rpg.

That's why I'm replaying now - I might debate the rpg-ishness of it, but not the greatness.

Interestingly, restarting a new game with the Knights of the Nine (which also puts the other 6 or 7 mods on as well) shows new weaknesses - basically they were designed to be added one at a time after you'd been playing for a bit.

[Dhruin]

Don't equate Reality Pumps inability to properly bulls*it (marketing/pr) to the consumer ...

This is a good point. Much of the PR (and the website) -- AFAIK -- comes from their partner Zuxxez. I wouldn't read too much into Zuxxez overenthusiastic language-impaired marketing having any real relation to the actual development team.

I know some of The Witcher guys occasionally get a bit frustrated with the whole PR/marketing thing. You'd be surprised how often an interview (or something) gets mentioned on an RPG board (say, Obsidian's boards or RPG Codex) and someone says "The Witcher? Never heard of it." At the same time you get "They're Polish. It'll suck.", "Looks like a Diablo clone. It'll suck". "Never heard of CD Projekt. It's suck". "It's been hyped for too long. It'll suck".

When you're an unknown European (or whatever) dev, I think it's surprisingly hard to get your message out there enough for a wide group of gamers to hear the message without alienating another group. I'm not saying their PR systems couldn't be improved, by the way, but it's not as easy as it looks -- and you've got millions of $$ on the line.

It's fair to be skeptical; they're untested as an RPG developer, the feature-set is way too aggressive, translations are hard and it does look a bit generic. Still, if you took exactly Oblivion and added a sensible/good/actually works character progression system, a better dialogue system, more quest depth (choices) and a more reactive meta-world, I reckon I'd really enjoy it. It may not as good as another game with a more unique artistic vision/setting, but it could still be good. The devil is in the detail - the feature set is only as good or bad as the actual in-game implementation.

[Corwin]

WOW Dhruin, you just encapsulated 90% of the stuff in the Codex forums in half a paragraph!! :biggrin: I think you've nailed the problem these devs face which is why I strongly believe in doing all WE can to help them succeed. Otherwise, we're stuck with what the biggies tell us we want!!

[Acleacius]

Because it's a great rpg.
That's why I'm replaying now.

I suggest maestro Cormac is being scarcatic. ;)

Great action game, yeah sure but great RPG Hah I say Hah! :)
Even in the most liberal definations aren't we talking about abliitly to play different characters?
In oblivion they are all almost identical at higher levels, with almost all stats on each race being over 100.

Now a little more aggresive inturpertation would require at least some choice in responding to NPCs good/evil so forth but 90% oblifion bacisly is one basic response or end converstation, iirc.

A even more extreme view would require an actual effect on the story plus previously mentioned actual differencanted classes and actual dialoge choices.

Or am I missing something here?
It has been many months since I played, so I could have forgotten something or just be wrong but I proabably would need more than, "It's TEH Bomb!" to convence me. :p

[Cormac]

I wasnt being scarcatic, funboy. And I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that OB is a great rpg -- or simply a rpg for that matter --, I dont really give a damn about your opinion. But you just expressed the view that anyone who has appreciated OB is pretty much dumb (appreciated it, of course, as the rpg it's claiming to be; I really dont understand how someone can say OB is a great action game; maybe it has failed as a rpg but in any case OB is a terrible action game: when I think of action games I picture Doom, not something with countless NPCs, objects, quests, locations, etc., to interact with. But that's another story). So I just wanted to tell you that some people do enjoy OB for what it is.
Anyway wrintig is teh ard so i stpp nowe.

[txa1265]

I don't think of Doom as an action Game, more like Rune or Blade of Darkness or Dark Messiah. Doom is a FPS. But I'm paying close attention as I play Oblivion now, since compared to Dark Messiah the combat in Oblivion (and G3 just to be equal opportunity) is 'lacking'. There were so many times in the arena where I wished I could just kick someone onto those spikes ...

[Acleacius]

Cormac
"I wasnt being scarcatic, funboy."
Well then you have my humble appoligies for any offense. :)

"But you just expressed the view that anyone who has appreciated OB is pretty much dumb"
Well then you misunderstood me and certianly I wasn't clear enough cause that wasn't my intent at all.
Nor am I trying to convince you of anything but I do differ in that I do care about your oppinion.
It's just you seem to make funny, insightful and yes scarcatic post occasionally, but that is not intended as an insult actually, since scarcasim can be used out of humor which I thought was your intent now and in the past, oh well. :)

Firstly since your being serious I would like to know what makes oblivion a RPG, if you feel like sharing?

"I think of action games I picture Doom"
Ahh ok, well I when I think of Doom I think, shooter.
I could have sworn the offical discription of oblivion was RPG/Action or some such, it's been so long now.

"So I just wanted to tell you that some people do enjoy OB for what it is."
I agree and I do enjoy it for as an action game.
I mostly was engaging a couple of posters that seemed to mesure everything including creation of the earth by oblivion and just having some fun but taking away from anyone fun would never be an intention, only an arrogant oversite on my part. ;)

txa1265
"There were so many times in the arena where I wished I could just kick someone onto those spikes"
Lol, I am the same way, I swear in any game now even G3 I keep wanted to kick stuff. :p
It was certianly a releif to hear/read Arkane wasn't responsible for the story, only for making the game, since I was disappointed in the story but loved the action. ;)

[Geist]

I'm not sure why so many people automatically compare Two Worlds to Oblivion. I've been keeping an eye on this game from the time I first saw it mentioned on rpgdot, well before Oblivion was released. From everything I've read it would seem to have a lot more in common with Gothic 3 (save for the more traditional fantasy setting). To quote an example from the Two Worlds web site:

"For example, a player must decide whether to help a city hold off the invasion of orcs or to secretly open the gates and let the invaders in. The latter decision will result in an onslaught and the take over of the city by the barbaric hordes. The next time the player visits this location, it will be populated and managed by orcs, unless the human army arrives and tries to liberate the city."

If the devs manage to deliver on their promises (which is a very big IF indeed), this could well turn out to be the game that Gothic 3 should have been.

[Geist]

Oh, and just to answer someone's question above: Two Worlds won't use level scaling.

[abbaon]

Firstly since your being serious I would like to know what makes oblivion a RPG, if you feel like sharing?

Swords
Goblins
Repetition
Fetch quests
Treasure chests
Numbers going up
People arguing about whether it's an RPG
At least one person arguing for the affirmative

[Corwin]

I've played adventure games which meet that criteria!! :)

[VPeric]

From everything I've read it would seem to have a lot more in common with Gothic 3 (save for the more traditional fantasy setting).

Exactly! That's what I've been trying to say!

:P

[txa1265]

I've played adventure games which meet that criteria!! :)

Of course some would argue that just means that the need for genrefication is obsolete with so much cross-genre pollination.

[abbaon]

I would argue that what is or isn't an RPG is this site's most fruitless obsession. Even if we answered the question to everyone's satisfaction, the world would look exactly the same as it does now, because it fundamentally DOES NOT MATTER. I'd like to see people waste less time and energy on that treadmill, because I enjoy the other conversations I have here. Rather selfish of me, really.

[txa1265]

I would argue that what is or isn't an RPG is this site's most fruitless obsession.

I think that post is an RPG.

No I don't.

Yes I do.

Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh ...

[titus]

ow wich one? because that sound like an interesting adventure game to me

[dteowner]

@abbaon- you're right, but that probably isn't going to stop it. Besides, if we had a concrete definition of RPG, that would eliminate not only debate about the definition but also ~1/4 of our total posts which argue, "game X is/isn't a true CRPG". Where's the fun in eliminating all that frivolous hand-wringing, particularly since I (of course) am the ultimate authority on such determinations? ;)

[elkston]

I know that Druhin will try to push this guy hard to get some real info. So far it just sounds like marketing PR.

"Explore xxx cities, dungeons, etc..". What does that mean? Are there loading screens? When you say "city" do you mean there are meaningful buildings we can enter? Secret passages to explore? Sewers? Are there ample citizens to talk to? Or is it just going to be a generic place you stop to buy and sell loot.

[Acleacius]

abbaon. lol that means Fallout isn't an RPG. :p

Corwin thats exactly what I thought of first, too.
I was trying to think if Monkey Island qualified. ;)

txa1265 lets hope not PR people get away with way too much BS now.

abbaon but... but this is an RPG site shouldn't we know what games qualify to be on the site? ;)

[ToddMcF2002]

Oblivion, however you'd like to label it, is a great GAME. For all you naysayers who played it 80-100 hours just to decide its retarded.... well then who is the real retard?

[txa1265]

Oblivion, however you'd like to label it, is a great GAME.

But, similar to Half-Life 2, it seems to get a total pass in terms of *real* criticism of flaws. Much of the consternation here is related to seeing the exact same thing get praised in Oblivion reviews and slammed elsewhere (and not just G3 reviews).

[ToddMcF2002]

But, similar to Half-Life 2, it seems to get a total pass in terms of *real* criticism of flaws. Much of the consternation here is related to seeing the exact same thing get praised in Oblivion reviews and slammed elsewhere (and not just G3 reviews).

True - but for the record there are many things I dislike about Oblivion (scaling, random content, lack of a truely hand crafted world) but I still kept playing for over 100 hours and pretty much loved it warts and all. Is it an RPG? Yes, no, maybe... does it matter?

[Corwin]

" Corwin thats exactly what I thought of first, too.
I was trying to think if Monkey Island qualified. ;)"

Other than not having a Goblin, I think so!! :)

[abbaon]

abbaon but... but this is an RPG site shouldn't we know what games qualify to be on the site? ;)
No. That would provide no value at all. Even if you succeeded in reading Oblivion out of the genre, we'd still want to discuss it. Knowing that we "shouldn't" wouldn't change that.

[txa1265]

No. That would provide no value at all. Even if you succeeded in reading Oblivion out of the genre, we'd still want to discuss it. Knowing that we "shouldn't" wouldn't change that.

It would make it an illicit discussion for hidden threads in dark corners ... cool stuff :)

[Acleacius]

abbaon
"No. That would provide no value at all. Even if you succeeded in reading Oblivion out of the genre, we'd still want to discuss it. Knowing that we "shouldn't" wouldn't change that."
I guess I didn't word that very well since I was attemping to be humorous.

What I mean is this is an RPG site so talking about what is and isn't an RPG is inherent, since we whom participate are basicly saying RPGs exist and if not talk about if game x is an RPG or game y isn't what do you suggest? ;)

My intent or oppinion isn't to weed out oblivion just have a fair accessment as with any game, which most review sites did Not do.
I remember how one reviewer stood up and told the truth about oblivion and all Teh Fanboiz came out attacking him, even though they had never played it and while all the main review sites suckedup with 95% plus scores, he stood his ground and was correct /accurate about all he mentioned, iirc. :)

The difference is many people looking for a RPG would have waited a couple of months had they known or been told the true state and style of the game, so gamers were mislead and tricked into buying something, this maybe acceptable to some or you it's not to me. ;)

[abbaon]

For the record, I have no problem whatsoever with the main review sites pitching reviews to the general public instead of the hysterical shrieking queens who style themselves roleplayers. But that's irrelevant to our discussion, since enforcing the party line on RPGWatch won't change their review policies. Back on topic.
My intent or oppinion isn't to weed out oblivion just have a fair accessment as with any game, which most review sites did Not do.
And you got it. People complained about the scaling and font size and whatever else from day one on the Dot. Rendel spent half his review going over the problems with the levelled everything, calling it "seriously flawed" and "a step back" from Morrowind, and he doesn't even agree with your definition of an RPG. So there's another thing that wouldn't change. There are plenty of people here who care about the same elements of a game as you do, and they'll go on telling you if you'll like each new one regardless of whether we agree on the definition of an RPG. Just wait and listen next time.

[Acleacius]

I as still missing your point why it's a precieved waste of time to talk about RPGs in all spectrums, one of our passions as RPGers.

Ok well we have different value systems or something as I find accurate reviews benifical to the RPG sites and I realise that some reviewers have made fair accessments as on the Dot.
I was refering to the PreRelease Play Parties put on by Bethsada and the reviews that spawned from it and the inital frenzation created by the overhype, if we didn't talk about it, share experiences we wouldn't be able to recognize/warn/prevent the next time.

As I mentioned, had many people had they accurate information before the release, many expecting the next coming could have saved there cash at least till they felt the price was right for a good action game. :)

A good exmaple of the this is Dungeon Lords, when it was first released and the subsequent patches, due to communication by fans and potiental fans, many were warned off since Dreamcatcher was ripping people off and still trying to this day, afaik.

[abbaon]

Wow. Never mind, Ace.

[Acleacius]

I think <hope> the release of part 2 will let us focus more on Two Worlds.
I am especially looking forward to the more indept look at combat, effects on world and dialogue choices if he will go into more detail. :)

[txa1265]

I think <hope> the release of part 2 will let us focus more on Two Worlds.
I am especially looking forward to the more indept look at combat, effects on world and dialogue choices if he will go into more detail. :)

Agreed - I *really* want to support this game, but need to feel assuaged about the combat system.

[abbaon]

I think <hope> the release of part 2 will let us focus more on Two Worlds.
Then do your part to ensure that it happens by leaving this shit -
Besides who cares if it looks like oblivion or not, better or worst, before or after most of all why would a RPGer care about oblivion?
Unless perhaps someone is confusing a stat based action game for a RPG, now that would be funny and embarrassing. :biggrin:
- in the dead horse thread (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1148). Thanks.

[txa1265]

Then do your part to ensure that it happens by leaving this shit in the dead horse thread (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1148). Thanks.
Can I get some Armor for that dead horse (http://www.angelfire.com/droid/drgonzo/horse.jpg) Ch-Ching! Sorry ;)

Seriously, I think it was great for Corwin to set up that thread so we can channel everything there!

[Acleacius]

abbaon
"Then do your part to ensure that it happens by leaving this shit -"
If you feel that way why did you jump in exacerbating the situation, when I and others were originally addressing the ones whom started it?

You are more than willing to point at others, while excluding any responsibility for yourself which makes you egregiously wrong.
I certainly realize what I was saying and why, even when make an on topic comment you once again are trying to cast dispersions on me while leaving yourself blame free, since I know this and I know you know this too, guess how I feel about it. ;)

I have respect for your opinions and statements even though I didn’t agree with them and probably will in the future but this is just silly. :)

Pick a subject if you wish.

txa1265
"Can I get some Armor for that dead horse Ch-Ching! Sorry"
Lol. :)

[abbaon]

"I know you know this too"? You honestly think you can win arguments by telling people that they agree with you? I can't talk to you, Ace.

[Acleacius]

What this means is; I know you know, you are just as responsable as I or any other talking about this, yet you seemed to jump back in, acting as a Nun with a Ruler trying to smack me. ;)

So appoligies if this did not translate well, even in Englsih which I seem to have an ablity to mangle, as well. ;)

"You honestly think you can win arguments by telling people that they agree with you?"

That's not what that means and I am not trying to win anything I had moved on because you didn't seem to want to talk about anymore which is fine by me and it's fine if you want to continue talking about it either is fine, just make up my mind are we talking about something or not. :p

If you think this is something personal you have my appoligies since this is not my intent and afaik I never implied it either. :)

[Corwin]

I think I'll close this NOW!!