Two Worlds II - DRM Details

[Dhruin]

Two Worlds Vault is reporting DRM details for Two Worlds II (http://twoworldsvault.ign.com/fullstory.php?id=58379), sourced from PC Games Hardware and Gamers Global:
According to what Mariusz Szaflik from RP confirmed and Zuxxez told earlier GamersGlobal.de (http://www.gamersglobal.de/news/26626), the title will rely on similar protection as its predecessor: you activate the game via the internet or telephone up to 3 times (subsequent reinstalls on different systems or rigs will require you to contact the publisher) and play. The game doesn't require DVD in your drive to be played and similarly will not rely on Steam connection (for Steam-distributed copies).
Head over for the links, including Google translations of the original articles.

More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=15686)

[KayAU]

Excellent...this will certainly stop the pirates, while at the same time I see no potential for this inconveniencing paying customers. DRM rules!

Kay

[huale768]

the title will rely on similar protection as its predecessor: you activate the game via the internet or telephone up to 3 times (subsequent reinstalls on different systems or rigs will require you to contact the publisher) and play. The game doesn't require DVD in your drive to be played and similarly will not rely on Steam connection (for Steam-distributed copies). King’s Bounty: Crossworlds Platinum Edition – contains King’s Bounty: Armored Princess, all the new content, plus the original King’s Bounty: The Legend.

[Tragos]

Limited installs?

i am so gonna use a cracked exe

[Tiptoe]

Idiots! More encouragement to pirate. When will they learn?

[bemushroomed]

Excellent…this will certainly stop the pirates

It'll stop them for a week or two, if they're very very lucky. A day or a few hours if they're not so lucky. But i guess you werent serious after all..

[DArtagnan]

Hahahaha. Yeah right, it'll stop them for a week or two, if they're very very lucky. A day or a few hours if they're not so lucky.

The opening window is quite vital in preventing piracy, for a significant number of would-be pirates.

[basharran]

To be honest it worked quite well for the original Two Worlds... it won't stop the pirates from cracking the game, but that seems to be common these days :(

[holeraw]

Limited installs?

i am so gonna use a cracked exe

This.

If I find myself interested enough in this game I'll buy it and then use a pirated version instead.


The opening window is quite vital in preventing piracy, for a significant number of would-be pirates.

That makes perfect sense especially for expensive hyped games by big companies that need to cover their expenses on day 1. I'm just wondering though: wouldn't it be a much better idea for a smaller or indie company, that can't afford fancy marketing campaigns, to invest into something that will steadily gain support from 'word of mouth' (or its equivalent for internet forums) that would assure steady sales for an extensive time period?

[bemushroomed]

The opening window is quite vital in preventing piracy, for a significant number of would-be pirates.

yes, that's why i said they're lucky if it takes them 1-2 weeks.

[DArtagnan]

That makes perfect sense especially for expensive hyped games by big companies that need to cover their expenses on day 1. I'm just wondering though: wouldn't it be a much better idea for a smaller or indie company, that can't afford fancy marketing campaigns, to invest into something that will steadily gain support from 'word of mouth' (or its equivalent for internet forums) that would assure steady sales for an extensive time period?

I couldn't say, really.

I suspect that VAST majority of gamers who say "DRM = I won't buy" are full of shit.

They want to play a good game as much as anyone, so only a tiny minority will follow through - IF they can't pirate it.

I think the primary problem is that people will feel entitled to pirate the game, which is why it's vital to not have that option during the first couple of weeks.

Then again, most sales will be on consoles anyway. So, I think it's a minor issue overall.

[KayAU]

It'll stop them for a week or two, if they're very very lucky. A day or a few hours if they're not so lucky. But i guess you werent serious after all..
You guess correctly. ;)

I strongly dislike DRM. It is highly ineffective at fighting piracy, and generally creates nothing but trouble for paying customers. One thing I find especially stupid, is that DRM can actually make cracked versions universally useful, as you may end up needing them to play the games you have bought properly. I think this irony is lost on most publishers, though.

Kay

[holeraw]

They should have came up with an alternative way of selling their product already.
The most interesting method I once read, which was about selling music - not software, was through sites where you would become a member by paying a small subscription and then being able to download anything you want without any limits or further charges. The income from the subscriptions would then be divided amongst the artists depending on the relative quantity of downloads of each one's work.

Well, at least that's how I remember it… I don't know how well it would work but the article I read was quite convincing. Of course I understand that would result in large companies getting less money while small ones get more… which sounds absolutely great to me but I can see why Warner and Sony would never want that to happen.

[DArtagnan]

They should have came up with an alternative way of selling their product already.
The most interesting method I once read, which was about selling music - not software, was through sites where you would become a member by paying a small subscription and then being able to download anything you want without any limits or further charges. The income from the subscriptions would then be divided amongst the artists depending on the relative quantity of downloads of each one's work.

Well, at least that's how I remember it… I don't know how well it would work but the article I read was quite convincing. Of course I understand that would result in large companies getting less money while small ones get more… which sounds absolutely great to me but I can see why Warner and Sony would never want that to happen.

Yup, greed prevents that from happening.

But it's the kind of system I've been advocating for a while - though I would prefer no monetary system at all.

That way, you ensure that a game is created for no other reason than to create a game.

[holeraw]

Yup, greed prevents that from happening.

But it's the kind of system I've been advocating for a while - though I would prefer no monetary system at all.

That way, you ensure that a game is created for no other reason than to create a game.

And how would they fund these games then? In-game commercials comes to mind...

[DArtagnan]

And how would they fund these games then? In-game commercials comes to mind…

They wouldn't "fund" them without funds ;)

They would be assigned resources - if any were available.

[holeraw]

They wouldn't "fund" them without funds ;)

They would be assigned resources - if any were available.

Either you have something on your mind that I'm not getting or you suggest people should make games exclusively as a hobby besides their paying job - which doesn't seem too appealing an idea to me because I expect we would end up playing nothing but short flash games.

[DArtagnan]

Either you have something on your mind that I'm not getting or you suggest people should make games exclusively as a hobby besides their paying job - which doesn't seem too appealing an idea to me because I expect we would end up playing nothing but short flash games.

I have something on my mind, yeah ;)

A complete restructuring of the world and the world-society - so it's not like it will happen for hundreds of years.

Still, it'd be nice - I think!
:p

[KayAU]

They wouldn't "fund" them without funds ;)

They would be assigned resources - if any were available.
You are thinking of the Star Trek society model?

Kay

[DArtagnan]

You are thinking of the Star Trek society model?

Kay

Not really, as they never managed to explain it :)

[Tragos]

WTH is wrong with them and why limited installs?
I can understand that they want to protect their product from pirates but 2nd hand gaming is not piracy .
One time online activation with a key would be enough but placing limits begs for piracy and not only cracked exe but fully pirated game because this mentality needs to be punished .

[DArtagnan]

Are we not blowing this a bit out of proportion?

In my experience, the limited installs never last - and I've never had a problem with that kind of thing.

Ok, so that's just my experience - but it sounds relatively lenient to me.

If we want to bitch about this sort of thing, I suggest Ubisoft as the target ;)

[kalniel]

WTH is wrong with them and why limited installs?
I can understand that they want to protect their product from pirates but 2nd hand gaming is not piracy .
One time online activation with a key would be enough but placing limits begs for piracy and not only cracked exe but fully pirated game because this mentality needs to be punished .
Then punish them by simply not playing the game. Pirating the game won't cause them to stop, it'll just increase DRM efforts.

Limited installs protects against key sharing by pirates. There are other ways to do this too, for example limited time activations (once a day/week etc.).

[holeraw]

Are we not blowing this a bit out of proportion?

…said the man who wishes for a complete restructuring of the world :biggrin:
(sorry… friendly tease)


Then punish them by simply not playing the game.
Everyone's so vengeful… DArtagnan is effectively right…

No one needs to be punished, that's just makes people to 'resist' more stubbornly and to apply even stupider ways to 'protect their rights'. Companies punish us for not buying their games and we punish them for punishing us by not buying their games… makes perfect sense… What companies need to do is to find a way to encourage people to pay for their products, and that's exactly what they are not doing.

[DArtagnan]

…said the man who wishes for a complete restructuring of the world :biggrin:
(sorry… friendly tease)

Hehe, not too many people think too highly of my "proportionate idea" ;)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

If I find myself interested enough in this game I'll buy it and then use a pirated version instead.

Where's the sense in it when it does no CD-checks ?

Apart from the limited installs.


And remember what the employee of Funcom said to me : "Dreamfall got great critics, everyone played it, but no-one bought it. It was copied to death." That's why, two employees said at the Gamescom, no-one know whether there'll ever be a successor to both TLJ and Dreamfall.


Companies punish us for not buying their games and we punish them for punishing us by not buying their games… makes perfect sense…

Very good said ! :lol:

I suspect that *one* of the many reasons why MMOs become so popular is the kind of copy protection that's built into it, in theory, at least (like Battlenet, for example).

This could mean that offline singleplayer effectively dies out. Apart from the casual market, of course.

[Tragos]

Then punish them by simply not playing the game. Pirating the game won't cause them to stop, it'll just increase DRM efforts.

Limited installs protects against key sharing by pirates. There are other ways to do this too, for example limited time activations (once a day/week etc.).

I have bought several games from gamersgate and each key is unique , the "key sharing by pirates" does not apply .

"They can "increase the DRM efforts" all they want , all locks can be unlocked .
Buying the game and have a lesser experience from those who don't buy the game... do i look like an idiot ?

[holeraw]

Where's the sense in it when it does no CD-checks ?

Apart from the limited installs.
The limited installs is enough… I have two computers already in two different houses and I'm probably replacing one of them (and maybe even both) soon. I need to have a reliable copy that I know I can use whenever I want regardless of any excuses… (it's a semi-psychological thing)

And remember what the employee of Funcom said to me : "Dreamfall got great critics, everyone played it, but no-one bought it. It was copied to death." That's why, two employees said at the Gamescom, no-one know whether there'll ever be a successor to both TLJ and Dreamfall.
I bought that :(
And I'm still waiting… and waiting… I need to know how it ends!

Hehe, not too many people think too highly of my "proportionate idea" ;)
Your idea is flawed in that it requires that people will not be stupid. And that is totally wrong, it's against the natural order. Therefore you suggest restructuring nature itself. Therefore you are evil and you think you are god.

[DArtagnan]

Your idea is flawed in that it requires that people will not be stupid. And that is totally wrong, it's against the natural order. Therefore you suggest restructuring nature itself. Therefore you are evil and you think you are god.

Having a brain and using it for improving the world is the new natural order ;)

Rather, it will be - eventually.

[KayAU]

Companies punish us for not buying their games and we punish them for punishing us by not buying their games… makes perfect sense… What companies need to do is to find a way to encourage people to pay for their products, and that's exactly what they are not doing.

Part of the problem is that the punishment from the companies only reaches those who actually do buy their games.

Anyway, yes, I agree, it is time to try something else. Reward honesty, make sure the paying customer gets a product which is at least as good as what the pirates get. I like the GOG.com (GoodOldGames) way of doing things.

Kay

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Part of the problem is that the punishment from the companies only reaches those who actually do buy their games.

Okay, how do you, then, reach those who do NOT buy their games ?

And I don't believe "the gaming community" will come up with a solution to THAT, because there'd be pirates among them, within the community, and they will not want any solution to piracy.

Because that would mean hurting or "deleting" themselves. (The pirates, I mean.)

[holeraw]

Okay, how do you, then, reach those who do NOT buy their games ?
By adopting a subscription model in which you pay less and you get more.

I believe the flaw in their reasoning is that they consider all the pirated copies to be money that they didn't get. But I think that's misleading. If I have, say 50 euros to spend on a game each month and I have to choose between game A and game B then if I can pirate them I will buy one of them and download the other - if I can't pirate them I will only buy the one. In such a case the other company doesn't really lose.

If I could use a service in which I would pay a subscription of 50 euros and be able to download anything I want, I would get both games legally both companies would get 25 euros each. That might not seem a lot but if it was an attractive model (pun maybe intended) then enough people would be using it for the companies to make good profit and the pirates to be without an 'audience' substantial enough to bother cracking games.

[KayAU]

Okay, how do you, then, reach those who do NOT buy their games ?)
I don't know a solution to that, but punishing the paying customers sure doesn't make any sense. They might as well try a friendly ad campaign saying "please don't pirate our games". I doubt it would do much, but I think it would be at least as effective as a draconic DRM system, and without alienating the paying customers.

Alternatively, they could hire some gangs to randomly beat up people in the streets. At least that would have a chance to randomly affect some of the pirates. As the current strategy only affects paying customers, this would be an improvement.

Kay

[kalniel]

I believe the flaw in their reasoning is that they consider all the pirated copies to be money that they didn't get.

But no-one, not even the industry, thinks that.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

But no-one, not even the industry, thinks that.

Really ? I could very well imagine "the industry" think this way.

It's called a business after all.

[holeraw]

But no-one, not even the industry, thinks that.

They don't? Then why are they using DRM to begin with?
Isn't it because they expect that people who won't be able to get their game illegally are going to pay for it?

EDIT: ok, I wrote 'all the pirated copies', maybe 'most' would be more precise.

[kalniel]

Really ? I could very well imagine "the industry" think this way.

It's called a business after all.
The industry have stated otherwise:
not every unlicensed or stolen software product would be replaced by a paid-for version.

BSA is Business Software Alliance, by the way.

[Ergonpandilus]

So, the only way to bypass this nasty DRM is to get it for free without DRM and even earlier than others? :roll:

[kalniel]

So, the only way to bypass this nasty DRM is to get it for free without DRM and even earlier than others? :roll:

Why bypass it? If you don't like it, just don't play the game.

[Maylander]

There will no doubt be cracks, so it's certainly possible to buy the game and then crack it. I always buy games, but I tend to play them with no-CD/DVD cracks (at least after X years when I've no idea where the DVD is).

[JDR13]

Much ado over nothing....

[Sir_Brennus]

Much ado over nothing….

I'm fine with Zuxxess. I activated their first game by (anonymous) telephone and was a happy player.

If the game would have had any need for a system like STEAM I never would have done that. STEAM is a customer enslaving DRM that hogs peoples PCs even if they just want to play a game.

So, again I am happy that they didn't take the wrong route with ther DRM and stayed away from STEAM.

[Propheet]

I honestly do not understand all the fuss here. Perhaps I should've added in the newsbit a bit more about the way Two Worlds 1/2 plays --
Online portion of the game is free but you cannot play it on a pirated version. There're online checks like in an MMO preventing that. Therefore, paying for TWII is actually increasing your possibilities, while using cracked or outdated activations limits them.

Sir_Brennus also mentions the contacting-the-publisher option. Almost all of the moderators at Two worlds official forums are entitled to and perform such activations for paying customers on a regular basis, and will continue to do so. Then there's the telephone activation to which there's no limits. If you've used up your limited automated/over-the-internet activations, your game does not become completely locked out (as is the case with other limited-install games or software). You simply have to call someone or send a PM to a moderator. They also provide a password recovery service for online modes, reseting activation amounts, and re-activation of the game in absence of a permanent internet link at your location.

Seriously, if half the games I played would be that installation-friendly we'd have no discussion like that at all. I believe the Witcher 2 will follow a similar route for DRM. And in any case this only seriously concerns PC gamers who this time will be a minority of TWII players. Xbox already requires a sub to play the online mode, PSN doesn't, so you can also choose another option. With PC you have to put a little more effort into it for lesser amount of money... I guess this shows PC players already too lazy to call or register on the official forums, hehe...sorta like console players :P

[crpgnut]

Ok, that's the final straw!!! Just because of this terrible DRM stuff, I'm going to delay my order by 15 seconds. That'll show 'em :D

[Guhndahb]

No deactivation - no sale

[Dwagginz]

They should have came up with an alternative way of selling their product already.
The most interesting method I once read, which was about selling music - not software, was through sites where you would become a member by paying a small subscription and then being able to download anything you want without any limits or further charges. The income from the subscriptions would then be divided amongst the artists depending on the relative quantity of downloads of each one's work.

Well, at least that's how I remember it… I don't know how well it would work but the article I read was quite convincing. Of course I understand that would result in large companies getting less money while small ones get more… which sounds absolutely great to me but I can see why Warner and Sony would never want that to happen.
You mean like this? (http://www.metaboli.co.uk/)

[JemyM]

My cycle is pretty much routine these days... go to store, grab the game, go home, while the game is installing search the net if there's a patch and go to a page for NO-CD patches, put the DVD back in the box and put it in the shelf, then play the game. Fallout 3 and Dragon Age is kinda annoying for the time it takes for the game to connect to the website.