The Let's Rant and Rave About Oblivion Thread

[Corwin]

OK, all over the site people have been ranting and raving about this game. Some love it, some hate it and most lie somewhere in the middle!! In the name of sanity, I'd like to see all that angst kept in ONE place, so the rest of us can discuss other games in peace!! :)

PLEASE keep all your comments and feelings about the game in this thread and I won't have to move them over from other threads that are being hijacked!! Thank You!!!! :)

[Danicek]

I have not finished Morrowind and I have not finished Oblivion. I got bored by it. The visuals are quite impressive and I understand that other people may like the game very much. But I don't find its mechanics very entertaining. I enjoyed the game for around 10 hours and force myself to continue for another 15 or so but didn't like so I've quite.

[Jaz]

I actually liked it a lot, BUT I wished they would have kept some features from the predecessors:

-the transportable light sources from Morrowind
-the clean-out-your-own-house feature from Morrowind (meaning, you could actually kill the inhabitants and take it over if you didn't get caught in the process)
-the visit-4000-places-on-the-map feature of Daggerfall
-the buy-100000-different-clothes-including-fetish-stuff from Daggerfall

Reverting to the instant travel feature of Arena and Daggerfall (even though just in a half-assed version) was an error IMO. Oblivion just wasn't as huge, you could walk or ride wherever you wanted. Level scaling was idiotic, but I guess we all agree on that. In Morrowind, we had just one Romance quest, but one is still better than none.
Hmmm... that's my rant for now.

[Dr. A]

Good game but probably the most overrated game ever.

Bethesda exaggerated about certain features and outright lied about others so I'm also quite irritated with them.

Oblivion set the bar for graphics but regressed in terms of gameplay. Basically it looks better than it plays.

I've never finished Morrowind myself but from what i've played it's a far better RPG than Oblivion.

[Wulf]

Standing on a mountain top and looking down with an overall view of the rpg gaming world below, i watched as the oblivion effect slowly spread it's eerie fingers of creeping mist over the land. I also did not complete Daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion, it is the way things evolved at bethesda. Market forces have overtaken the gaming "storyline-satisfaction" element without a doubt. They are nice enough games to look at but that extra magnetic "bite" we were used to a decade ago that draws gamers into not being able to stop playing a game until completion is fastly fading.

Because Oblivion wanted from the outset to take "center stage" of the greatest game ever brigade, then it has "made it's own bed and must now lie in it" and inevitably will forever be used as a corner-stone in the majority of rpg comparisons and arguments.

May Innos have mercy on our gaming souls.

[Corwin]

I know I always raise definition issues when I make this point, but to me the distinction is that Oblivion is a good GAME, but a poor RPG!!

[GothicGothicness]

The Let's Rant and Rave About Oblivion Thread

LOL, what a sticky!

I think Oblivion is a nice work of art...... however as a game it is really boring. When you have seen the different dungeon types some nice reflectinos and sky effects and the different city types ( there are not that much variation ) you are done watching all the art. No need to spend more time with it. There are some mods to improve many asepct of the game though..... this is a plus.

[Corwin]

I made it a sticky, so the visitors from the Codex could find it!! :biggrin:

[Geist]

I know I always raise definition issues when I make this point, but to me the distinction is that Oblivion is a good GAME, but a poor RPG!!

With that sentence, Corwin, you have awakened another mighty beast from its slumber. A creature just as fearsome as the vaunted "Why I hate Oblivion" monster. Few can escape its clutches. Its fury engulfs most every thread and its thunderous roar drowns out all other voices. It's known as the "What is an RPG" monster. I can already smell its familiar stench and hear its footsteps fast approaching.

[VPeric]

Personally, I was very excited when I got Oblivion. The first bit in the sewers was interesting, I explored around, had a bit of fun killing bandits. Went to a town, did a few quest, went to another town, did another quest or two... and that's when it got boring -- I just wasn't in the mood to run around always doing the same thing. Then I went to some forums, read about the scaling thing (and how, apparently, some monster level "better" than you, so that you're best off staying at level 1 the whole game), and that completely killed it for me.

Tried to pick it back up again a bit ago. Again, had fun, visited a few more towns (but not the one's I've been to before)... it was interesting, mostly the same as the first time. But as soon as I got to a place I've been to in my first playthrough, I got bored and stopped playing it. For the record, I never had this problem with Morrowind - there were always other quests to do.

And yes, the second time was with that mod and stuff - still didn't help overly too much.

So, I guess I can half-agree with Corwin: Oblivion is a poor game, and hence, a poor RPG.

;)

[Zaleukos]

Oblivion is the worst TES game I've played for any length of time and possibly my biggest disappointment ever (due to me liking the predecessors a lot). It's like a romantic comedy from Hollywood, incredibly skillful craftsmanship but very empty.

For me TES games always were about replayability and free form roaming through quantity. The quests and the characters might be flatter than in some other games, but I could always count on there to be something new for me to explore. I really looked forward to Oblivion as I was a big fan of Morrowind which is up there with the Gothics among my top RPG experiences. Daggerfall was also cool for its time but suffered from a very lacking presentation (lots of features werent fully implemented). These games also had level scaling, but not as extreme as Oblivion. So where did the much more polished Oblivion fail?

Quantity: Too few quests and factions makes you run out of things to do and reduce replay value A LOT. Replay value was IMHO the main strength of Morrowind, and the guilds were much more fleshed out in MW with questlines that were rather long compared to those in Oblivion.

Console interface that's developed for 13 year olds. The game feels like a console port. Menus and the like were not even rescaled to make use of the higher resolution on a PC.

MAJOR: Retarded quest mechanics where you dont get enough oral/written hints, making the bleeding COMPASS ARROW necessary for solving quests. The quests are also more often than not scripted in such a way that triggers have to be activated in a certain order...

MAJOR: Lack of branching in storylines and guild selection: The latter was admittedly a problem in Morrowind too, but there you could ignore it and just focus on one guild and still have enough things for your character to do. Not so with the low number of quests in Oblivion.

Level scaling: A historical weakness of TES games that was in Daggerfall (almost as dumbly implemented as in Oblivion, but less problematic as you could get by without optimizing your character) and Morrowind (where it was less intrusive) as well. But it reaches new heights here, making certain character types (a thief levelling on thieving skills) completely unviable. Any system that requires you to plan your levelling extensively disrupts the fun of the game and kills immersion. Allied NPCs also dont seem to level up to the same extent as your enemies. Anyone tried making the Kvatch guards survive at level 15 or so?

Voice acting: Sean Bean and Patrick Stewart do their part very well, but was there only money in the budget for 3 or four other actors? I hate hearing the same voices over and over again, and I find it a bit odd for High Chancellor Ocato to have the same voice as Glarthir the Psychotic. It would have been better to allow one to switch of voice acting completely, as the repeated use of the same few voices kills immersion.

MAJOR: NPC AI in combination with a ton of escort quests. Possibly dumber than in Gothic 3. NPCs run in BETWEEN MY SWORD AND THE ENEMY. NPCs hit each other and start killing each other. The so called Radiant AI causes a lot of friendly fire incidents to end with wholesale massacres.

A misused physics engine: Walk close to the shelves in a shop and watch the inventory fly all over the place.

MAJOR: Twitch-based combat is not for me. Combined with the "allied" AI its a game breaker.

A lack of weapon types and skills compared to earlier incarnations make each character feel less unique. I know this is cosmetic, but its a big deal to me.

MAJOR: The most populous province of a world-conquering empire has a rather ridiculous population density. The scale is way off. This was less problematic in Morrowind as MW took place on a frontier island, and not an issue at all in humungous Daggerfall.

MAJOR: Random dungeons. Why reuse the obviously faulty dungeon generation system of Daggerfall (combine about ten unique larger dungeon blocks at random)? Sure, the dungeons arent mating octopi this time, but they repeat. And repeat. Pure shite and inexcusable in this day and age.

MAJOR: Oblivion gates and the, as advertised on the box, infinite realm of Oblivion. Random generated lava levels just dont do it for me. I would recommend any new players to avoid (the realm of) Oblivion and its blasted gates by never going to Kvatch, so the shite doesnt shoot up all over the place.

Mods can fix some of these issues, but not the ones I labelled as major. Fans have told me that there are quest mods and the like, but my experience with mods for all games (including say NWN that was intended as a construction set) is that fan made content varies in quality, and that one has to wade through a lot of poo to get to the nice 5%. I played the game for 20 hours, uninstalled it, and wont touch it again. It bored me and that was due to what I perceive as major design flaws. In the future I'll try to only buy Bethesda "RPGS" from the bargain bin. I concede that the game looks good, some of the quest ideas were neat and new, and that the AI and physics engine could have been nice parts of better thought out design. This isnt Neverwinter Nights 1, a construction set with a campaign tacked on to it, but a GAME with a construction set tacked onto it.

[txa1265]

As I'm replaying now to work on the "Knights of the Nine" module I bought, I am reminded of a few things:

- The game looks great.

- It plays very smoothly with much load zone lag since the patch.

- All the characters look weird. I just don't know what is up with the faces ...

- Combat can be pretty fun. I still want to kick everyone, though ...

- The world is full or mostly pretty nothingness. I don't think it is wonderful strolling through the unpopulated hills ... sure it is pretty, but I want to feel like I'm in constant mortal peril, not occasional mild danger.

- There is a distinct feeling that nothing you do matters ... I have a nice 'Arena Champion' badge, and people heaped platitudes about how the Gray Prince was known throughout the land and how since I beat him ... well, you get what I mean. Nobody knows that I'm arena champ.

- Quests & Failure - when I took on the Arena champ, I knew I was betraying my promise to help him uncover his past. I was *failing* at a quest ... as he lay dead, I got a notice that 'You won't ever be able to uncover his past' - but the message was 'Quest Completed'! C'mon, hurt my feelings - let me know that I screwed up ... I can handle it! (*sniff*)

- Choices and Consequences - I met the guy in Wye who gives out the Fish quest, and pretty much talking to him gives you the quest and talking again ends it. What if I wanted to extort from him after getting the fish scales - he *was* pretty desperate after all ... sorry, not in this game.

And that sums up the major items - it is a huge world with loads to do, but little of it feels like it matters, nor do you feel like you are making choices.

[Acleacius]

Zaleukos very indept, it's been so long since I played DaggerFall, Morrwind or even Oblifion I didn't remember all your points until you mentioned them, thanks. :)

I couldn't agree more, when NoN was release I starting trying to reorient myself since there had been a patch as well since last I played.
The Massive amounts of Mods just trying to fix the game, so now since the patch most all previous Mods had to be updated.
This means if you had a set of Mods which at least made the game tolerable, you can only hope the Mod Authors are still around and you can find the thread.
Good lord have your tried to do a search on the offical forums, it's total insanity with a mind numbing number of post to try to sort through.

Add to this trying to get a grasped of the available Mods is beyond spending a couple hours of catching up, I proabably spent at least 3 nights of about 4 hours each and just scratched the surface, it will concievably take the time it would to actually play the game certianly 40 hours to get really up todate.

Plane of Oblivion was a joke, remember how they were guarding it as a secret?
Lol, can't imagine why. ;)

I agree just skip the Main Quest the talented actors give the MQ a little life but there is only so much they can do with poorly written story once you have to deal with the gates.
Even though there is a talented team of Modders that Rebuild Kavch and allow you to be ruler this means having to deal with the MQ and all the nasty gates.

Oblfion is like a relationship from hell, sure you want to try to like it but it constantly bites you. :p

Edit
txa1265
You can actually finsih the Grey Princes quest before fighting him and Spoilers;


He begs you to kill, even refusing to fight back in the arena.

[Jaz]

Plane of Oblivion was a joke, remember how they were guarding it as a secret?
Lol, can't imagine why. ;)
Well, we saw more of the planes of Oblivion in Battlespire :p.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

it is a huge world with loads to do, but little of it feels like it matters, nor do you feel like you are making choices.

Yes, that sums it up for me.

It's a big world, there is lots do do, but even with mods like OOO, what you do don't matter.
Combine that with the fact that the game is incredibly linear ( In morrowind for example there was such an abundance of guild quests, you did not have to do them all to become head of the guild, instead you could leave onces you didn't like) and (without mods) does not reward you for the one thing that is so much fun about sandbox games, which is exploration, and it is a game that bores me to tears. The combat is fun for a while, but it only keeps me entertained for a while, after that I just want more out of a game.

I keep going back to it, trying to find the 'magic', that 'getting sucked into a game', like I had with Morrowind, but Oblivion leaves me cold. Or maybe I should say sometimes it leaves me red-hot, I had such high hopes for the game, I wanted to like it so badly. The whole game just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I wish I could like it, I really would, but in all honesty I doubt I'll buy any other Bethesda product straight at release...

[magerette]

I made it a sticky, so the visitors from the Codex could find it!! :biggrin:

:D Don't tease the animals.


I can't bash Oblivion since I didn't buy it--nothing about it, especially the hefty price tag, encouraged me to think I would like it. I did buy and play Morrowind and really enjoyed it in the beginning, but never finished it, if such a game could be said to be finishable.

I think Jaz had a good point about each TES game dropping some of the features you liked in the last--I found the actual rpg content of Daggerfall to really be dribbled away in Morrowind, tho the graphics did mesmerize me--but that's enough bashing from someone who hasn't played the game.;)

[dteowner]

There is a distinct feeling that nothing you do matters ... I have a nice 'Arena Champion' badge, and people heaped platitudes about how the Gray Prince was known throughout the land and how since I beat him ... well, you get what I mean. Nobody knows that I'm arena champ.Morrowind disappointed me so much that I never bought Oblivion, but this thought nearly sums up the critical flaw in both titles for me, as I've mentioned many times before. Rather than "nothing you do matters", I'd say "what you do doesn't matter" because character growth (and often story progression) was exactly the same for saving the world versus standing in the swamp for days and killing a million rats. You'd get the same skill increases, levels, loot (nearly), and recognition. Ick. I spent good money on a new video card just so I could play MW at a decent framerate (and with pretty water) and my frustration was mountainous.

[txa1265]

Morrowind was my first TES game (again, late to the party) ... and I was impressed with it for a bit in terms of size and scope ... but after I got Gothic 2 I could never go back.

[Fenris]

This Game is the Harbinger of Doom for Mankind. I played the Elder Scrolls Series since Arena and Morrowind was already a Disappointment for me (ok, Battlespire was also Crap ^^).

[HiddenX]

I played & finished

Arena
Daggerfall
Battlespire
Redguard
Morrowind
Oblivion

My TES favourites are still
Daggerfall, Battlespire and Redguard

Morrowind was good:
1) great story
2) lots of quests
3) huge world
4) many different groups to join

but not great:
1) bad enemy leveling
2) bad economy model
3) bad combat
4) less choices and consequences
5) mini dungeons

Oblivion was good:
1) lots of quests - some of them very good
2) better combat

but not great because of
1) bad enemy/chest leveling
2) even less choices and consequences
3) bad story
4) repetive gameplay (Oblivion plane, dungeons)
5) bad dialogue-system
6) bad interface

PS: All TES games are more action aventures than role playing games for me.

bottom line:

Bethesda is always trying to make a huge world simulator (exceptions: Battlespire and Redguard) with absolute freedom.

For my taste absolute freedom is boring.
I want to make choices with consequences to me, the world and the people.
I want to think about my next step.
I want a challenge.

So Bethesda think about this and read the crpg ingredients thread.

[Corwin]

But look on the bright side, they're also making Fallout 3!! :biggrin: Just think of the forum fun we'll have then!! lol

[nameless hero]

I bought Oblivion last year, played about 20-30 hours then stopped from boredom. Today I finished Gothic 3. Now im planning to finish Oblivion. My opinions of the games are that Oblivion is a more well-done (and optimised) game. I think I found oblivion better than Gothic 3, even though I was disapointed with it. Gothic 3 just didnt have that "Zaz" to it like its oredecesors. Offcourse I still think Bethesda could learn a great deal from PB, and vice versa.

[mudsling3]

I bet G3 would have been a different game if there were not Oblivion or $$ that it brought in. And I was hoping the influence would took place in the opposite direction. Oblivion, I have it since the first day...I just have too many other games to do...

[Jaz]

I played & finished

Arena
Daggerfall
Battlespire
Redguard
Morrowind
Oblivion

My TES favourites are still
Daggerfall, Battlespire and Redguard

Same p&f-list here; we two must be the only people in the world who played and liked both Battlespire and Redguard :).

[Zaleukos]

I should have mentioned that TES games fulfilled a different kind of RPG need for me compared to say Gothic. Gothic (except for number 3) has always been about great NPCs and a believable world, while TES was replayability through quantity. Depending on my mood I enjoy both concepts but spent more time with TES due to the nonlinearity.

I should add that my biggest gripe isnt that Oblivion spoiled a franchise I liked. That has happened before and will happen again. What I dislike is that it due to massive marketing, console domination, and relatively polished state upon release (in this case that for once is a negative:p) will be the golden standard of RPGs for the next 3-4 years. And given that it is a step away from the kind of RPG I enjoy that is very very problematic...

[cutterjohn]

My experiences with Oblivion are, primarily, derived from the following:
Played and finished Daggerfall, but skipped Redguard(looked more like an adventure game), and Battlespire(sounded like a Hack'n'Slash).

Later I picked up Morrowind GOTY edition, and played it alot, but never finished it. I missed random dungeons v. the small handcrafted ones of Morrowind. Missed some of the skills, like climbing, etc. The variety of quest, factions, and main quest was nice.

Gothic 2. Nice game. Good use of voice acting without overly limiting dialog. Horrid UI(inventory management hell). i.e. I enjoyed it, but no where as much as morrowind.

Didn't read much about Oblivion, but I had hoped that in the best case they would have moved more back towards Daggerfall style or in the worst case leave the Morrowind style unchanged, but using a newer engine. I was disappointed with the further dumbing down of the game by further reduction of skills, action based combat(and not very well done), poor application of some of the side technologies purchased(facegen, havok, the soil erosion thingy, etc.), quest GPS, trivial dialog, even fewer voice actors than MW, under populated capital and province of a continent spanning empire, changes to the magic system(dumbing down), obvious unchanged console oriented UI, poor quality of most of the quests(Dark Brotherhood ones were the best), lack of options in completing quests, lack of consequences(good or bad in completing quests), the mini games, loot & creature levelling, still using interior cells for building AND now cities, horse with no armor or ability to fight while mounted, nickling and diming for crappy little modules, NPCs that act no better than simple scripted ones(so much for "Radiant" A"I"), etc. So, in the end, I'd give Oblivious a 2/10 as an RPG, or a 7-8/10 as an action game, but since it was pawned off as an RPG it gets a 2/10. Quit after 15h, while looking over a house that I wanted my char to burgle, got to thinking about how nice it would've been to be able to fly/levitate or climb to that second story window and make an entrance coupled with yet another rock stupid NPC babbling about mudcrabs. It just drove home what a lousy implementation that Oblivion turned out to be, so I quit. (Plan to try it again some day with all sorts of mods...)

I have since played Gothic 3, and found that while it was released to early, that it was a MUCH better RPG than Oblivion. Combat impllementation was almost as bad as Oblivions. I was also VERY happy to find that PB had discovered the wonders of mouse pointer based UI. The world of G3 didn't feel like an empty disneyland. So, as a comparison I'd have to give it a 7-8/10 as an RPG.

I've also played NWN2. Overhyped, under deliverance on graphics unless you always zoom in max. Mostly linear. Lousy camera. Lousy NPC AI. Still, it's a better RPG overall than Oblivious. 7-8/10.

Played NWN1 too, but I still haven't been able to force myself to get past the halfway point ATM, after which I should have the purportedly better SoU and HotU plus Kingmaker series. Lousy NPC AI. No rating on this one ATM.

Played every IE based game. Found them to be dull and never was able to force myself to finish them. Lousy pathinding and NPC AI.

Bored with KotOR. *yawn*

Loved some of the old SSI AD&D gold box games, Darklands, Fallout 1 & 2, M&M through VII, Wizardry 1-8(I loved 8), Wizard and Warriors(overhyped, but I had some fun with it), surprisingly the action RPG Divine Divinity(didn't expect much, and it turned out to be pretty good).

Basically also cannot stand(very much of) Nox, Diablo 1 & 2, Titan Quest, Sacred, etc. i.e. pretty much every action RPG, but DO have fun with most roguelikes excepting nethack which I don't care for.

Can't stand the inevitable extended grind portion of MMO"RPG"s. I did have fun with Minions of Mirth when you could have parties of chars on the official servers, but now I mostly play with a party in a single player game.


Actually the most fun that I expect to have with Oblivion is when the PS3 version gets released, and then watching all the little XBOX360 and PS3 fanbois flame the crap out of each other. Should be good entertainment for one and all.

Fallout 3: I'll be waiting for that to hit the bargain bins, even IF someone who had similar experiences with Oblivious detailed here, recommends it.

[Squeek]

The TES games have had a huge problem with balance ever since Daggerfall. IMO, Bethseda tried and failed to correct that with Oblivion. There's a lot to like about Oblivion, but it just isn't one of those games you love.

I was unable to complete Oblivion (or Morrowind for that matter), because I got bored. I tried a ton of mods, too. That helped, but not enough, apparently.

TES needs to do two things, IMO. First, they need to raise their standards for quality control. Their products are just too buggy. Second, they need to remake Daggerfall (It was clearly the best TES game, despite it's flaws).

[ToddMcF2002]

Wouldnt it be easier to rename http://rpgwatch.com to http://www.bitchaboutbethesdadaily.com?

[Acleacius]

Iirc, in the movie link given about the sivering isles, one of the devs said (something like) "we're using different actors for each NPC since they are so distint, but in oblifion we didn't need to use diffent voices since so many NPCs said the same thing."
Lol, the devs don't even get it. :p

[Corwin]

Wouldnt it be easier to rename http://rpgwatch.com to http://www.bitchaboutbethesdadaily.com?

No, instead I started this thread!! What's your problem!!??!!

[txa1265]

No, instead I started this thread!! What's your problem!!??!!

Exactly - if you have noticed, there has been a funneling effect of complaints here ... it is working. Expressing concern of Bethesda handling Fallout is not attributable to Oblivion bashing, as any reasonable fan of both games would definitely have concerns...

[ToddMcF2002]

My problem??? Well I used to be able to run 8 miles a day and now 35 minutes on an eliptical makes me feel like I'm going to throw up. I can't drink more than 4 beers without feeling like shit the next day and I used to be able to kick back a solid dozen.

On the upside - I stopped this thread dead in its tracks for hours - leaving you all wallowing in guilt for your shamless bashing of Bethesda.

Now I've had my fun and you may resume your tirade!!!!! LOL

[Corwin]

Yep, as I suspected, it's advanced old age and senility!! :)

[xSamhainx]

TES 4 Life!

That's all, carry on.

[Jaz]

Ohhh yes, Sammy.
...remember how our MW characters Iron Maiden and Gunther dated...? Teehee.

[xSamhainx]

There I was worried about her messing around in Dwemer ruins, little did I know that would soon be the least of my worries... ='.'=

[Jaz]

...and you're right to be worried. He suffered from porphyric hemophilia at the time.

[ToddMcF2002]

Ah Morrowind... the magic.. the mystery.. the romance??? err...

[txa1265]

Having just finished Knights of the Nine, let me quickly say that they didn't use that opportunity to fix any of the fundamental issues of the game.

[Acleacius]

An impressive constitution you have txa1265, congrats. :)

[JDR13]

Having just finished Knights of the Nine, let me quickly say that they didn't use that opportunity to fix any of the fundamental issues of the game.

Already??? Didn't you just start that last week?

[txa1265]

An impressive constitution you have txa1265, congrats. :)

:D

Actually, my total game time was just over 20 hours, and that included becoming Grand Champion of the Arena, ascending the Mage Guild ranks, and doing some other random quests ... so it wasn't too bad ;)

[txa1265]

Already??? Didn't you just start that last week?

Looking at my saves, I started on the 12th ... so about 12 days.

[JDR13]

:D

Actually, my total game time was just over 20 hours, and that included becoming Grand Champion of the Arena, ascending the Mage Guild ranks, and doing some other random quests ... so it wasn't too bad ;)

Ok, I understand now. You went straight to the KotN quest pretty much. I thought you had played through the whole game again.

[txa1265]

Ok, I understand now. You went straight to the KotN quest pretty much. I thought you had played through the whole game again.

I did start from scratch ... but had no desire to take on the whole 100+ hours again - too much other stuff to do!

[Acleacius]

JDR13
" I thought you had played through the whole game again."

Hehe, no one has that high of consititution, well no PC gamer.
Much less even playing it one time with no mods, not sure anyone could put up with the 150 hours worth of console crap popups every 5 miniutes, if any "PC only gamer" had completed everything without a mod, I owe them a beer. ;)

The No Popup mod maybe the greatest mod ever made. :)

[JDR13]

What do you mean by "popups"?

[txa1265]

if any "PC only gamer" had completed everything without a mod, I owe them a beer. ;)

Hey - you owe me a beer! My original play-through for my review was mod-free :)

What do you mean by "popups"?

Here you go - expect to see about a hundred of these during 'Knights of the Nine' ...

http://txa1265.spymac.com/pictures/Obliv_KotN_8.jpg

...and, yes, it really does occupy about 1/3 or the screen real estate.

[JDR13]

Aha! So what does the no-popup mod do? Reduce it to just letters?

[ToddMcF2002]

Total Removal actually. A must have.
http://www.tessource.net/files/file.php?id=3394

You should really check the description on alot of these. Some great stuff:
http://betteroblivion.com/alist.php

[JDR13]

I'm careful not to go overboard with too many mods. I've already decided that when I finally get around to seriously playing Oblivion I'll probably try one of those texture mods to sharpen the distant graphics, but not much else. I don't like it when mods change so many things that it becomes a different game altogether.

I was thinking about trying that "Obscuro" mod because I've heard a lot of positive thing about it, but it just changes too much. I would like to find a mod that does away with the auto-scaling for enemies and loot but not much else. An "Obscuro-lite" anyone?

I also refuse to use any mod that actually adds\changes any objects, enemies, spells, quest, etc. At least until I've played through the entire game and experienced it the way the Devs intended it to be.

[Moriendor]

I'm careful not to go overboard with too many mods.

A wise decision. The no pop-up mod is certainly not required. In fact, there are a few quests that are very hard to solve without the guidance (I can't wait for the first person to quote that statement to let us all know that they were oh-so uber hardcore to figure every single quest all out by themselves... OMG, I'm sooo proud of you! No. Really. I am! :biggrin: ).
Anyway, you will occasionally (maybe on about a half dozen to a dozen quests) be looking for the proverbial needle in a haystick without the pop-up pointers.
I'd keep pop-ups turned on for your first play-through. You can always just click on "continue" as you can see in the screenie above (i.e. without actually reading the help text) if you feel like your hand is being held too much. And then -if you should happen to get stuck- you can just check your journal (where the pop-up pointers will all be listed) if you require help.

[GothicGothicness]

I'm careful not to go overboard with too many mods.

I prefer not to change the gameplay with mods until I played throught the game once however there are are a lot of performance, and grahpics enhancement mods you really should install for this game..... not that it makes it any better.... but at least you'll get to look at very pretty graphics while playing :D

[ToddMcF2002]

I was thinking about trying that "Obscuro" mod because I've heard a lot of positive thing about it, but it just changes too much. I would like to find a mod that does away with the auto-scaling for enemies and loot but not much else. An "Obscuro-lite" anyone?


Francesco's levelled creatures is lighter. I've played it myself - it mixes things up well and keeps it challenging without throwing extra creatures at you (which Obscuro's does). More importantly, the installer allows you to deselect all extra creatures and items if you wish, leaving you with just the leveling tweaks. Obscuro's approach to leveling AND extra enemies can play havok with your framerate so be forwarned.

I plan on playing Obscuro's more extensively but my machine cannot handle 8-12 enemies on the screen at once which can happen with Obscuro's.

I am a bit puzzled about some of these folks who are anti mod and then turn around and complain about the handholding? Maybe SOME quests are particularly difficult without the compass and popups but so what? There are countless quests in the game and you can turn the handholding back on at any point???

[JDR13]

I'm actually kind of surprised that Bethesda didn't release a patch to give users the option of turning off the auto-scaling. I mean considering all the negative backlash they've received because of it.

My guess is that they don't give a sh*t because they've already made their millions off the game.

[JDR13]

[QUOTE=ToddMcF2002;17263]Francesco's levelled creatures is lighter. I've played it myself - it mixes things up well and keeps it challenging without throwing extra creatures at you (which Obscuro's does). More importantly, the installer allows you to deselect all extra creatures and items if you wish, leaving you with just the leveling tweaks. Obscuro's approach to leveling AND extra enemies can play havok with your framerate so be forwarned.
QUOTE]


Does Obscuro's mod actually add new creatures, or just increase the number of existing creatures? I also heard that Obscuro adds some new graphics(icons, effects, etc.) can you confirm that?

[abbaon]

I'm actually kind of surprised that Bethesda didn't release a patch to give users the option of turning off the auto-scaling. I mean considering all the negative backlash they've received because of it.

My guess is that they don't give a sh*t because they've already made their millions off the game.
You couldn't just turn off the auto-scaling. It would mean going through and setting the level of every wilderness area, dungeon, and quest. You'd have to balance those for different builds and different paths through the game, which means some degree of QA cycle. Lots of little details, like movement rates and enemy tenacity, were decided under the assumption that you can handle anything you meet, so they'd have to be reexamined. Loot availability would also require your attention, to keep a sprint through Xylywyld from netting the player a full suit of glass. In short, they'd have to address all of the issues that drove them to auto-scaling in the first place - and God help them if they messed it up. You can give a sh*t about the concerns of your most vocal customers and still not have the luxury of redesigning the game to appease them.

Of course, they may not care. I wouldn't. :)

My complaints with Oblivion, which I can't find mods to address:
You can win every fight with block, slash slash. If a power attack automatically broke a block, and your opponents knew it, then that might stop you from sleepwalking through every encounter, but it might also expose a different pattern for you to exploit. I suspect that the enemies simply don't have enough options to behave unpredictably in combat.
You can't get a higher-res texture pack that doesn't stomp all over Bethesda's art style. Texture artists have to leave every surface crawling with kenophobic "detail" (http://betteroblivion.com/textures/index.php).

[JDR13]

"Of course, they may not care. I wouldn't."

I guess it's a good thing that you're not a game designer:)

[Acleacius]

txa1265
"Hey - you owe me a beer! My original play-through for my review was mod-free"
Done. :)
How many hours did it take to finsih every quest and dungeon once, since the dungeons respawn?

JDR13
"I'm careful not to go overboard with too many mods."
"I was thinking about trying that "Obscuro" mod"
Just incase you didn't know for sure, these two statments are completly opposites, since
Obscuro changes almost everything.

Moriendor
"A wise decision. The no pop-up mod is certainly not required. In fact, there are a few quests that are very hard to solve without the guidance "
Are you sure your talking about popups?
The mod ToddMcF2002 and I are talking about has no effect on quest and/or log entries, not to mention as you sugeest leaving a popup up for guidence would be totally nutz, look at the size example txa1265 posted.
The quest log is uneffected, so if you get lost all you need to do is look normally where you would look, this mod just removes the in your face console unnecessary nonsence.
I can't help think you are talking about something esle.

JDR13
"I'm actually kind of surprised "
Oh you will be surprised at many things once you play it, guarnteed. ;)

" Does Obscuro's mod actually"
Nothing really worng with ooo but it changes core pricipal (i.e. gameplay) on all levels, though I am not sure about adding new mobs.
One thing for certian you won't get any thing close to the original game experience, I am not saying that is a bad thing.

Btw Quarks texture mod work is execellent overall, others are good too but if you were going for one complete work his is best overall, well last time I checked.

[Dhruin]

"Of course, they may not care. I wouldn't."

I guess it's a good thing that you're not a game designer:)

As I've said before, I believe Bethsoft sees the scaling as a huge success and therefore would have no reason or interest to switch it off (assuming that was feasible, anyway).

[abbaon]

"Of course, they may not care. I wouldn't."

I guess it's a good thing that you're not a game designer:)
RPG design is moving in a direction which I like and hardcore "fans" don't, so it's kind of a moot point. :)

[JDR13]

"Oh you will be surprised at many things once you play it, guarnteed."

Do you mean Oblivion? I've had it installed for months, I've just never started a serious game. I've probably played through the catacombs 9-10 times, but other than checking out some of the area around the first city, I haven't done much else.


"since Obscuro changes almost everything."

"Nothing really worng with ooo but it changes core pricipal (i.e. gameplay) on all levels"

Now I definitely know I won't be using it.

[JDR13]

RPG design is moving in a direction which I like and hardcore "fans" don't, so it's kind of a moot point. :)

And what direction is that? That's a very broad generalization you're making there. RPG's are part of a genre that isn't following any particular trend right now.

Unless you consider getting easier and dumbed-down a trend.

[abbaon]

So glad you asked! But let's pursue this digression in another thread. I don't want to mar the perfect hatred here.

[Jaz]

But the hatred in this thread isn't perfect! Not everybody participating in the discussion is an Oblivion-basher. Criticizing unloved features of a game you like is hardly hatred, it's criticism. And there'll always be a feature to discuss... I for my part haven't seen the perfect game yet.

[LordRac]

Isn't there enough discussion about Oblivion at RPG Codex? :)

I finished the main and thieves' guild quests back in June, and I haven't been back to it since. I don't think I'm the only one who's done the same.

[Corwin]

There might be 'discussion' there, but we have to at least offer our readers the same opportunity!! :)

[Acleacius]

Yeah and besides he was trying to keep most of the criticism in one thread. :)

Though, since many review sites actually mention oblivion in comparision to all RPGs now, some of us disagree with the reviewing benchmark and find it difficult not to say the "o" in a thread where the article actually starts the debate. ;)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

The bad thingh is that games that sell are considered a "standard" in German ganing mags.

Any game thast does not comply to that "standard" is ... well, not necessarily "bad", but it just doesn't comply with the standard, if you know what I mean. ;)

Or to put it the other way round : To say that a game does not comply to a "standard" is an *very* subtle way to say it is bad, because it *is* not "part" of the "standard". ;)

I must admit that this sounds quite far-fetched, but I do have kind of a sense to often detect subtle meanings in formulations. ;)

[Prime Junta]

I'm giving Oblivion another chance.

I got seriously bored with it when it first came out; the game balance/challenge issues were so severe that it got old fast. Well, pretty fast -- I did put tens of hours into it, which is more than most games take to finish. There was just no sense of progression or consequence in it, so I gave up. Also it gave what I thought was my pretty good video card the heebie-jeebies.

I've since upgraded my video card to something even nastier (GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB, if somebody cares), and Oscuro has been hard at work... so I re-installed it, dropped in OOO, and got going.

I'm just out the gate and I like it a lot more already. I'm getting my ass handed to me by bandits, since click-spamming with the short sword no longer works, which is as it should be, and I almost got et by a swordfish on my first swim. We'll see how it pans out later, but it does look like Oscuro may have turned it into something that's actually challenging and rewarding in the meantime.

Oh, and that mean new card of mine runs it smooth as butter at 1920 x 1200 even outdoors. Nyah nyah. It's also quieter with the stock cooler than my old one was with the Zalman VF700Cu cooler on it. I know 3 C's isn't chickenfeed, but it's one fine card for the price.

(I also made a conscious decision not to min-max or exploit: I picked a stock class matching the way I want to play, and intend to stick to it. If it turns out to be fun, great, if not, it's back to the ol' bookshelf with it.)

[Relayer]

I got Oblivion as a present and spend a few hundred bucks on a brand new video card (and power supply) only to play it for the first week or two.

I've started several games since and never get too far before moving on to some other game. It's highly polished, has amazing graphics, nice dungeons and of course lots of quests. And the combat system is improved from Morrowind.

But the way it throws you into the story is far from believeable - that and having the same handful of actors doing the voices for all the NPCs in the game really throws the immersion off and having several voices for ONE NPC? It's just ridiculous. Another big offender is the lack of dialogue options - you get a few responses, none of which changes anything in the story, leaving roleplaying a bit too much to the imagination.

Add the other little things like level scaling, a non-intuitive and non-customizable interface and it just feels like Morrowind Lite.

[Corwin]

Get some mods, they allow you to change the interface etc!!

[Glacian]

Honestly, I really liked Oblivion and spent many hours addicted to it. It's not perfect, and I certainly agree with and understand many of the complaints... but overall, I guess the total is greater than the sum of its parts.

I've probably played better games, but I had fun with Oblivion and that's what's important.

[Dez]

Heh today i lauched oblivion...its been months.. To put long story short I created a mage character. My main goal is to stay away from swords and armours..-Just rely on my staff and magic skills. I also found this great unarmored mod..a must for any mage player.. Heh like many other mods... Unmodded oblvion is rubbish.

I'm trying hard to give oblvion another chance...Last time I got bored shutting down those oblvion gates...this time i won't go near MArtin :P

[mute]

I always loved oblivion. As usual i stay clear of discussion boards of a Hyped game so i didn't know about "leveled" creature when i played through it. Now that i know i can think of it sometimes, but it doesn't bother me. Getting back to Oblivion buying Shivering Isle is interesting.

As Corwin said (i think), its a good game and a bad rpg, it says it for me too.

I am not a RPG type of guy, or a simulator friend, or a... i just want to have me self illusioned into another world. May it be in World Word II doing scavenger hunting in my Submarine. Might it be me trying to solve a mysterious quest involving Moses, or trying to solve the problems of myth drannor. Its seldom the mechanics thats problem for me. Illusion of a living world is enough and if am not aware of a particular bug, a deliberate design decision, or developer cutting corners, well. Then the game is good.

[bjon045]

Oblivion certainly isn't perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than 90% of the games we get these days which are either bug riddled or uninspired eye candy with no substance.

[txa1265]

uninspired eye candy with no substance.

Yes, Oblivion is inspired eye candy with no substance.

:D

(this is the 'trash Oblivion' thread, you know ... so whether or not I agree with you is immaterial ;) )

[Zaleukos]

Of all the gaming disappointments I had in 2006 Oblivion kinda stands out. The others (Sid Meiers Railroads, Medieval 2 Total War, Gothic 3, Neverwinter Nights 2) were bugfests and sometimes instances of developers biting off more than they could chew.

Oblivion wasnt. It might well be the most bug-free version 1.0 I've played this century. It looks as good as any of the others listed on my PC, and unlike any of the other games mentioned I get a smooth experience at maxed out settings. Unlike the others its not a "nice try"...

Yet I hate it more than any of the others (possibly except for Railroads). Bethsofts concept has strayed too far from my ideal RPG to be interesting. Presentation and things like AI schedules are vast improvements, but the multitude of quests and the choices to be made that I had in past TES games were removed.

[MudsAnimalFriend]

Bethsofts concept has strayed too far from my ideal RPG to be interesting.



But... but... the critics rave!

Quandary: 5/5
The quests available in Oblivion are the best I have played in any RPG. They contain many twists and are often more convoluted than they first appear.

Games Radar: 10/10
...this doesn't even touch on the enjoyable mini-games, including lock-picking, stealth action and persuasion. They don't feel like filler.

Yahoo! Games: 5/5
But the painstaking attention to detail, outstanding worldcrafting, and inspired AI make it a huge improvement [over Morrowind]

Gamespot: 93/100
The game's fine-tuned challenge is achieved in part because the enemies you'll encounter out in the world will get stronger as you do, though in practice, this doesn't come across nearly as contrived as it sounds. Growing more powerful in this game feels suitably rewarding, as it should in any role-playing game.

Worthplaying: 9.8/10
Oblivion is one of the best packages of the past several years, with no element even average; everything is as close to perfect as can be expected.

Gamershell: 9.8/10
The quests in Oblivion are probably the best in any RPG to date. Due to the huge environment and the excellent AI, the quests can finally involve a lot more than "Go to the swamp. Kill 20 lizards, and bring me their hides."

ActionTrip: 94/100
In many ways, [Bethesda] have once again revolutionized gaming as we know it.

Boomtown: 10/10
That’s about the exact moment I truly realised the sort of game Oblivion is... A masterpiece. One of the best ever made.
Also in the same review:
...your indoctrination into the Arcane Academy is a chore,
...becoming a vampire is about the single most annoying thing in Oblivion
[the plane of] Oblivion itself actually sucks.
Jeremy Soule’s score [is] almost exactly the same as Morrowind’s.
The Radiant AI is anything but...
The levelling-up system is rather clunky too.
...the "Loading Area" signs suck.

[Dez]

...this doesn't even touch on the enjoyable mini-games, including lock-picking, stealth action and persuasion. They don't feel like filler.

LOL I'm speechless!


The quests in Oblivion are probably the best in any RPG to date. Due to the huge environment and the ]excellent AI, the quests can finally involve a lot more than "Go to the swamp. Kill 20 lizards, and bring me their hides."

I want the same stuff he was smoking!

[Squeek]

Sometimes devs manage to make something worse by improving it. It’s quite a trick. Oblivion’s quests are a perfect example of that, IMO.

“Go to the swamp; kill 20 Lizards, and bring me their hides" is typical but hardly as bad as some of the quests dreamed up by Bethesda. In their previous game, many of them were nothing more than a shopping trip, “Go find this product at this store; buy it, and bring it to me.” Honestly, how much would it take to improve on that?

Oblivion did, but…(sigh).

[chamr]

The mass hysteria of the review sites is a bit baffling. When was the last time a game with so many deep, design flaws was so universally fawned over by the press? I think most reasonable and mature gamers, whether they're pro-O or anti-O, acknowledge that there are several significant issues with the out-of-the-box game that warrant discussion and debate. But that's a far cry from the "I have found Jesus, and he is Oblivion!" foolishness that seemed to completely overcome almost all the main game sites. :thinking:

[txa1265]

reasonable and mature gamers

Wait - there are reasonable and mature gamers?!?! Where?!?! Maybe I just can't hear them over all of the hysterical fanboys? ;)

[chamr]

Wait - there are reasonable and mature gamers?!?! Where?!?! Maybe I just can't hear them over all of the hysterical fanboys? ;)

Yeah. You know... us RPGWatchers... um... and... well -- you know!

:)

[Corwin]

Definitely, we at the Watch are reasonable and mature- some like a fine wine, others more like mouldy cheese!! :biggrin:

[GothicGothicness]

He is obviously talking only about you Corwin.

[fatBastard()]

So is it only allowed to rave and rant about Oblivion or can one rave and rant about the Oblivion ravers and ranters as well?

If not then: "Naughty Oblivion, bad boy" *shaking fist in half hearted attempt at indignation*

If it is allowed then let me just say that I'm really glad that I'm not in the business of making games that you lot like. I mean, don't change the encounter difficulty and you get blamed for leaving the higher ups no challenge. Change the encounter difficulty and the level scaling haters get going (could the level scaling system have been better? Sure, but at least they tried to do something). Leave the quests as they were in Morrowind and you get blamed for only doing the fed-ex or "go there kill this" kind of quests. Put an effort into attempting different kind of quests and you get blamed for the same thing by what appears to be the same people. What gives? Did anyone actually complete quests like the Agatha Christie styled "invitation to murder" for the Assassin's Guild? Or how about the paranoid woodelf in Skingrad? Or the rescue/manhunt quest in Bravil?

I could go on but I guess there is no point. Oblivion is a game that many people love to hate if for no other reason then it at least provides an easy target that won't fight back ... oh well at least I got my moneys worth out of the game, so I'm content.

[MudsAnimalFriend]

I could go on but I guess there is no point.
Those were my exact thoughts while I was playing Oblivion. Then I followed the magic pointer to the land of Control Panel and undertook the Add or Remove Programs quest. Much like the average Oblivion quest it too only offered a couple of dialogue options and left me with absolutely nothing to show for it on completion.

[fatBastard()]

Those were my exact thoughts while I was playing Oblivion. Then I followed the magic pointer to the land of Control Panel and undertook the Add or Remove Programs quest.
Ha good one :lol:

Much like the average Oblivion quest it too only offered a couple of dialogue options and left me with absolutely nothing to show for it on completion.
Wait, a quest is only good if the loot/reputation-boost is worth it? Is that it?

In that case I can much better appreciate the ire vented at the quests in Oblivion. And here I thought the actual reason, plot, background, implementation and experience of SOLVING in a quest was what mattered, not what you got out of it in the end.

Sorry my mistake. :sarcasticclap:

[MudsAnimalFriend]

Wait, a quest is only good if the loot/reputation-boost is worth it? Is that it?

In that case I can much better appreciate the ire vented at the quests in Oblivion. And here I thought the actual reason, plot, background, implementation and experience of SOLVING in a quest was what mattered, not what you got out of it in the end.

The process of solving something involves establishing a series of steps to arrive at a solution and implies the application of intellectual effort. This is of course fundamental to all good adventure games and present in the better class of RPG quest. However most of Oblivion's quests require all the intellectual fortitude of a severely retarded ant with alcohol abuse issues. Talk to NPC at point A, go to point B, kill everything that moves and return to point A neither constitutes an enthralling story nor a brainteaser. It's also nothing the player can't already do - outside the structure of a quest - in one of Oblivion's many identikit dungeons. Given Oblivion doesn't use experience points, and the levelling scaling would render them worthless anyway, then there has to sufficient item/monetary reward to make the quest worthwhile.

Sorry my mistake.
I forgive you :hug:

[Maylander]

Well said.

[fatBastard()]

The process of solving something involves establishing a series of steps to arrive at a solution and implies the application of intellectual effort. This is of course fundamental to all good adventure games and present in the better class of RPG quest. However most of Oblivion's quests require all the intellectual fortitude of a severely retarded ant with alcohol abuse issues. Talk to NPC at point A, go to point B, kill everything that moves and return to point A neither constitutes an enthralling story nor a brainteaser. It's also nothing the player can't already do - outside the structure of a quest - in one of Oblivion's many identikit dungeons. Given Oblivion doesn't use experience points, and the levelling scaling would render them worthless anyway, then there has to sufficient item/monetary reward to make the quest worthwhile.
Okay, fair enough. It seems that what we're looking for in quests isn't the same thing.

I don't mind exploration, but only as an added bonus to what I'm really doing there. In a huge sandbox like Oblivion I really need a reason to go somewhere, be it a desolate place or be it a densely populated area. It doesn't have to be a major incident or part of the main plot line for me to go there, but SOME kind of incentive is needed or I'll just look around, shrug and say to myself: "So? Where do I go from here?" while I'm exiting the game. A REASON to go somewhere is what the quests do for me, not the reward they eventually bring. The journey and the details of the quest can be a little story/subplot in itself and THAT is what makes a good quest in my opinion.

Besides, if you split a quest into its' basics then you'll find that every RPG, even gems like PS:Torment or Baldur's Gate makes use of the same Fed-Ex, lair cleaning, target assassination or "save my <insert item/person here>" type of quest recipe ... so why would Oblivion be any different? It just seems that Oblivion is the only one being bashed for it ... :uncool:

[Squeek]

It just seems that Oblivion is the only one being bashed for it ... :uncool:Oblivion may not be the only one getting bashed; but it does get bashed the hardest, and you have to wonder why. There's obviously a lot to like about Oblivion. It got rave reviews; it has plenty of fans; it won all those awards. So why does it get bashed so hard and so much?

The World Wide Web has always had a certain kind of latent hostility. Even before the Web, the Internet had rules of etiquette that you couldn't violate without getting "flamed." Maybe one reason is simply the format we're using to discuss it.

And Oblivion is the perfect thing to argue about. It's a tremendous game and a huge success but also deeply flawed. Add to that all the arguably-false claims Bethesda made about it beforehand and everything they've said or didn't say after their customers bought it and found out about it for themselves.

[chamr]

It's a tremendous game and a huge success but also deeply flawed. Add to that all the arguably-false claims Bethesda made about it beforehand and everything they've said or didn't say after their customers bought it and found out about it for themselves.

That's pretty much the reason. Any game that's touted to be as revolutionary as Beth claimed it would be and is then subsequently slobbered all over by the press is natrually going to be held to a very high standard by critics and, when found lacking, will be bashed for it. It's not like O is just the cute "Little Engine That Could" and is only trying to make it over that big hill, so why is everyone so mean to it? It's been billed, by the company and the mainstream press alike, as the second coming of RPG's. In that context, I can see why folks find simplistic, unengaging quests based on a formulaic approach that's been around forever unacceptable.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

I also think the problem with the Oblivion quests is not the quests themselves, but how they are presented. Of course other RPGs have similar quests (fed-ex, save my husband/child/kitten, go and kill this person for me). but with the compass and the pop-ups I lose a big part of the suspension of disbelieve.

"Go and kill a foozle" is one thing, but: Go and kill a foozle, follow the arrow to the cave entrance and then *tada*, a pop-up saying "You have reached the cave, you should enter"... it insults my intelligence and disrupts the feeling that I'm part of the game-world rather then playing a game.

Now, I reinstalled Oblivion and I find it a great game for when I want to run around and kill things. For when I don't want to be my party-member's shrink, don't want tohave to worry about what Bastilla/Jaheira/Elanee will think of my choices and so on.

It's like a sandbox fantasy-FPS that lets me pretend I'm RPing without having to worry about the consequences of what I do further on in the game. It fills a nice niche for me, and even though I hated it at first, and still dislike parts of it (all the blood, gore and corpses, the whole Dark Brotherhood) it is enjoyable as long as I don't expect too much from it.

And that's where the problem lies of course: if it hadn't been hailed as the new future of RPGs, the best thing since sliced bread, and so on... it would have been enjoyable for what it is.
I think I object mostly to the fact that it has a label it doesn't deserve, and the fact that for me it doesn't compare to Morrowind, which I still play and will always love.
My problem is that Oblivion wasn't the game I wanted it to be, and is not the game it is made out to be. But once I learned to ignore that: it's a pretty fun time-killer.

[Septim741]

Oblivion has it's flaws yes, but so does any other great game.

Morrowind was a bigger and better game than Oblivion is. It had low points, as all games do, but we tend to look past those low points and see the game for what it is. Despite a considerably slow player speed with wacky animations, and what we now consider bad graphics, it was always a good game. But we must take into account that when MW was released, these kind of animations and graphics were very advanced. Same with OB.

OB made great leaps with it's graphics and stuff, but it was not a "huge" as MW. I rather liked the vast, unexplored tribal lands as opposed to the "wilderness presented in OB.

But that's why I mod OB and not play it. I wanted more gameplay out of it, and I had to do that myself.

[Dez]

As much as I love ranting oblivion, there is just something which keeps dragging me back in the game. Not to mention the wonderfull mod scene., I've started playing oblivion again with all these great mods installed..(Not that I didn't use some before, but now i decided to make oblivion a whole different game.) For example I downloaded OOO. Its maybe the best thing ever happened to oblivion. It really makes the oblivion feel more like a rpg and if you add some mw gameplay mods plus few others in the mix, you'll get dozens times better game.

The most annoying things for me in vanilla oblovion are the level scaling, unbalanced skills, meaningless guilds and too many hack and slash quests with no real consequences,. Its just so sad, so much wasted potential. it just doesn't stop astonishing me, how benth couldn't comprehend how broken the whole level scaling was when they released the game. Aren't those guys supposed to be professional devs? Don't they play their own games at all?

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Don't they play their own games at all?

I guess they do - either in "God-mode" or they do know their games so well they don't perceive anymore how a newbie to the game would actually see it.

A similar thing happened to the RTS game Z (by the Bitmap Brothers), which was increadibly hard it didn't sell as much as it could have. Wasted potential.

The reason I remember from an interview was that the devs knew the game so well they could play it easily at the highest difficulty level - forgetting how it was and might've been to a newbie.

To me, the second Z game had a similar fate.

[HiddenX]

I played through Z and Z 2 without problems. I think it is the difficulty range of Incubation, Jagged Alliance 2, Gorky 17 - approximately 1000x times harder than Oblivion. ;)

[rooroosta]

Lol..they are definitely harder than Oblivion.

[Dez]

Its not the difficulty problem.. Vanilla oblivion isn't difficult at all!´the fighting at higher levels (+20) is just so tedious and boring..you'll only face anemies which have uber weapons and tousands of hitspoints. And weapons are like toys, as much as damage they deal..So instead of facing smarter and more fearsome enemies you will face enemies which have only more life and thus every single fight takes forever.

Thats why you need balancing mods.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I played throgh Z as well - but in Z2 I simply lost the overlook.
Too many things at too many different places - it was driving me nuts.

[rooroosta]

I enjoy Oblivion much more with the balancing mods.

[Bartacus]

Perhaps I should give Oblivion a try again. After all there was stuff that I like about it compared to Morrowind.
Oblivion got a a good journal. It had spoken text instead of reading all those boring lines again. It had better voice acting then Morrowind (easy since Morrowind almost didn't have any). This time the graphics were better even when I count it in the time it was published.(I still like the Gothic 1 - Gothic 2 graphics much more then those of Morrowind)

About the negative aspects of the game -> I think they are already posted here, so no point in doing that again.

[bjon045]

Oblivion GotY edition is out next month, might be worth a shot, especially after apply a few mods to tweak it.

[Corwin]

I am NOT a masochist!! :)

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

I just wish there was a way to combine the best of Morrowind with the best of Oblivion.... that would make my day (week, year, decade).

When I play Oblivion I miss the large amount of guilds to join, the politics, the fact that not every NPC walks around with a glass sword on his back, the wonderful main quest that I can do when I want too (while it makes sense from an RP perspective) and the wildly different environments of Morrowind. I also miss the ability to make your own spells and enchantments from the start, I always get bored of the Mage's Guild questline.
Besides that, I miss head-packs. It's so much easier for me to make a pretty face for Morrowind with Photoshop then it is for Oblivion with Facegen. :blush:

When I play Morrowind, I miss the improved sneaking, the sneak attacks, and being able to zoom in with my bow. I miss being able to wield a weapon in one hand and cast a spell with the other. And I miss the fact that in Oblivion when I hit something visually, I do damage. Maybe not much, but at least I hurt them a bit. In Morrowind I quite often can't tell if my arrow missed because I didn't aim properly or if I had a bad dice roll. Oh, and being able to retrieve arrows that missed from the floor. And the cool traps which always makes me feel like some sort of Indiana Jones wannabe :p


Hopefully the next TES (I don't care too much for Fallout, I prefer fantasy, but I might give Fallout 3 a try at some stage) will get the mix right for me :)

[GhanBuriGhan]

You are probably aware, but Timeslip has a bow zooming mod for MW. And I heard some of the sneak mods are good as well.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

No, I didn't know of the bow zooming mod. Thank you for pointing it out, I'll search for it.
A lot of mods that make Morrowind more like Oblivion use external programs though, and I've been avoiding those so far.

[GhanBuriGhan]

No, I didn't know of the bow zooming mod. Thank you for pointing it out, I'll search for it.
A lot of mods that make Morrowind more like Oblivion use external programs though, and I've been avoiding those so far.

Yes it is one of those. However, I never expereinced problems with these extenders, so I'd recommend to give it a try. I can't live anymore without the enhanced journal that I can type into.

[Lucky Day]

Is it just me or shouldn't this game have its own forum? This was probably already brought up and discussed to death. It's possibly already too late considering Oblivion is past its prime now.

[Corwin]

No, just its own thread; that's all it's really worth!! :)

[txa1265]

No, just its own thread; that's all it's really worth!! :)

Plus, it is featured in every RPG review written in the past 18 months, so it is all good :D

[JDR13]

I wouldn't say Oblivion is past its prime, at least not from a technical standpoint. On the contrary, most gamers still don't have systems that can run that game smoothly on high settings.

[txa1265]

I wouldn't say Oblivion is past its prime, at least not from a technical standpoint. On the contrary, most gamers still don't have systems that can run that game smoothly on high settings.

Yeah, but it has been used regularly for more than a year as a 'whipping boy' - an example of how modern games should *not* do things ...

[Zaleukos]

I was always a bit perplexed by the technical complaints against Oblivion, as it ran much better than all the other 3D game I've played that was released in the last 2 years (G3, NWN2, Medieval 2 Total War, Two worlds), looked better than all of them except Gothic 3, and barely crashed on me:p Heck, together with Two worlds it's the only one I could run at max settings! I loathe the game but have no complaints about the technical standards or polish as such. But maybe that is due to the way I "balance" my homebuilt PCs...

And wouldnt it be interesting to see the graphs of activity over time for Oblivion fora at "serious" rpg sites?

[txa1265]

I was always a bit perplexed by the technical complaints against Oblivion,
Much of it was the blatantly console-centric interface.

[Zaleukos]

I was thinking of performance issues that some people complain about, e g when JDR said that "most gamers still don't have systems that can run that game smoothly on high settings". When I think of technical problems with a game I think of horrible loading times, constant crashes, underoptimised graphics, and the like. I didnt have any such problems and my PC wasnt even top of the line when Oblivion came out.

I rather think of Oblivion as a house where the builders successfully implemented the blueprints to the letter, but the artifact who made those blueprints was stoned. Roughly the opposite of how I feel about Gothic 3:p

[JDR13]

Yeah, but it has been used regularly for more than a year as a 'whipping boy' - an example of how modern games should *not* do things ...

Which is exactly why I said "from a technical standpoint."

[JDR13]

I was thinking of performance issues that some people complain about, e g when JDR said that "most gamers still don't have systems that can run that game smoothly on high settings". When I think of technical problems with a game I think of horrible loading times, constant crashes, underoptimised graphics, and the like. I didnt have any such problems and my PC wasnt even top of the line when Oblivion came out.


I wasn't refering to crashes, underoptimised graphics, or load times. Just the fact that many gamers still don't have the system to run Oblivion smoothly at max settings, which isn't a knock against the game at all. From a technical standpoint, the game was well ahead of it's time.

[Lucky Day]

Well I think there could be a lot of good discussion about the game and its mods. I'd certainly like to know about what the latest "fix" mod is. That's changed over the years. There was the multiplayer mod as well.

I think there's more than just cynicism that can be commented on it.

The one point about all the buzz on the net about it already is a good point. Certainly there isn't the interest in Gothic "out there" than there is here. It makes sense to have a forum. Does NWN2 need another forum then? Discussions of the game are certainly plentiful already on the Bioware forums.

But as I said, Its a bit of a moot point at now considering its release date. Mind you I made one comment yesterday and there were nine comments after so maybe Oblivion discussion is still relevant.

[Zakhary]

Oblivion subforum would make a lot of sense to me.
It's a CRPG. A very popular one too. And the GOTY edition
is just being released.

Or even better... a subforum dedicated to elder scrolls.
Now that would be even better. And make A LOT of sense.

All the past Elder Scrolls games... and the future ones.
Yeah!

[Corwin]

I'd support an ES forum, but such decisions are made by the Admins. Generally, they consider the amount of traffic a game generates on the site before deciding on new forums. We had an ES forum back at the Dot, but I rarely visited it

[Lucky Day]

With my new machine and a few weeks before class I was thinking of firing this up for real this time.

What mods should I get to play it with sanity. I recall there's a good comprehensive one that gets regular updates.

[skavenhorde]

It's not a bad idea having ES forum but don't make it just for Oblivion *Shudder*. Make it for all of them.

Lucky Day, Gamespy's ten essential mods. http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?id=41&view=Articles.Detail

If you are willing to download a 2 gig file then I highly recomend Qarl's texture mod III. http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=2363 It made a huge difference in the graphics. Although, the people in Oblivion still all have baby faces.

I think I found out about the ten essential mod list here at The Watch a long time ago. I used all of the ten essential mods except natural environments and it made the game a bit more playable, but in the end I still gave up. It was just too boring even with the mods.

[Lucky Day]

What about the BTMod?

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=25

or how about the list of most downloaded?

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/fms/TopRated.php?content=oblivionmods&sort=Downloads&dir=DESC&w=&p=1

[Remus]

I gathered numbers of user made contents from BallOfFire's Oblivion modlist page:

1) Phinix immersive DarkUI 1.2 + OOO SI compatibility fix
2) Purse of wonder 0.5
3) Realistic physics and force 1.0
4) OOO Complete 1.33
5) Sudden Violence 2.0
6) Deadly Reflex 4.03
7) Oblivion script optimizer 1.0
8) Atmospheric Wheater system 2.1
9) OMOD 1.0168

Any comments & suggestions?

[SirJames]

rant and rave huh?

Id love to join in, but im more in the mood for positive conversation today :þ

i will say this.... They didnt get it right, it pretty much sucked... Everyone who LIKES the game is not playing it the way the devs created it, they're playing Mod versions where non-game-dev users have made better additions than the actual company itself!!

Bethsoft? pffffffffft, they're absolutely crap. I fear for fallout 3 :|

[Jaz]

I liked it. I played it vanilla.

[Zakhary]

Yeah, I quite liked it too. I mean it could've been a lot better and it was far inferior to morrowind. But it was alright. And I won't touch mods. There are far worse RPG's out there nowadays.

[Gragnak]

One word:

LEVEL SCALING

I finished Morrowind and all expansions. I think Morrowind is one of the best RPGS around. My expectations were the same for Oblivion. I thought: "Ok. Here we'll have tha same good rpg system we liked in Morrowind, perhaps refined and implemented, and better sound and gfx....."
So I went to my local store and bought it.
Installed it.
Started it......
And I found a console game, with a lot of video effects, level scaling monsters and treasure (like a mix between a 3d shoot 'em up and flight simulator by foot...) and few, poor rpg elements.
I uninstalled it.

[Zakhary]

One word:

LEVEL SCALING



That's two words :(

[Gragnak]

Eh eh eh....
Ok.
One word:
LEVELSCALING

[Squeek]

Oblivion will always be regarded as one of the greatest games that could have been, IMO. Those kinds of games are always controversial, because there's plenty to like if you can get over the disappointment.

The single best thing that ever happened to those games are mods. So I will definitely mod Oblivion the next time I decide to give it another shot.

[txa1265]

Oblivion will always be regarded as one of the greatest games that could have been, IMO.

Really? Mainstream media consider it one of the greatest ever, while for RPG fans it is one of the most divisive ever ...

[Squeek]

Really? Mainstream media consider it one of the greatest ever, while for RPG fans it is one of the most divisive ever ...I think most of us are already aware of those things, Mike, and they add up to be much of my point. I'm missing yours, honestly. Do you think it didn't have that potential or that it actually achieved it? Or do you mean something else entirely?

[JDR13]

I see where Mike is coming from on that one, almost all of the reviews gave that game a very high score, while most hardcore CRPG players seen to either love it or hate it.

I'm still undecided myself, as I've never played far enough into Oblivion yet to determine whether or not I like it.

[Foss]

I thought Oblivion could be one of the greatest games I would have played. Because I liked Morrowind so much.
So imo it could have been one of the greatest, but the way they went opposite Morrowind in many aspects was a big dissappoinment, and though its not a bad game, its not one of the greatest nor is it better than Morrowind imo.

[txa1265]

I think most of us are already aware of those things, Mike, and they add up to be much of my point. I'm missing yours, honestly. Do you think it didn't have that potential or that it actually achieved it? Or do you mean something else entirely?

I guess I violate both of my points - I gave the game 8/10 ... and pretty much consider that 'as good as it gets' for the game. No matter what you patch, the Oblivion Gates are boring, the 'open world' is boring, the overwhelming majority of quests are one-dimensional, and there are pretty much zero actual choices.

[Heraclitus Marr]

What turned out to be bad about Oblivion is that Bethesda actually listened to Morrowind players. Ironic, I suppose, but there's a lesson there for game developers. Like the Chinese say "be careful what you wish for you just may get it."

Morrowind players wanted horses, and despite Bethesda developers saying they weren't worth the development time, they put them in Oblivion. Great. Happy? You've got your horse. You get on one for the first time, switch to 3rd person view and marvel at how cool your character looks riding through the countryside on horseback. But after a couple minutes of this you're like "uh... what now?" You can't fight on a horse; can't pick flowers; can't talk to anyone; can't enter indoor areas. It's just eye-candy and probably took hundreds of developer hours to put into the game.

Another big complaint about Morrowind was combat was too short: you could kill most enemies in 1 or 2 hits. So in Oblivion (thanks to level-scaling) every fight takes several hits. You swing and miss; dodge; block a hit with your shield; cast a fireball; whack with your sword; get hit with a blow... finally the enemy dies. Wow! That was fun and I really felt like I was in a fight for my life. You walk 30 feet and it's another fight. Then another... it just got so boring and tedious after awhile I just found myself racing through dungeons with half a dozen monsters chasing me because fighting was too boring to bother with.

One other thing that bugged me: Bethesda re-hired all the same voice-actors from Morrowind. So all the Redguards sounded the same; all the Nords sounded the same (hey! it's Wonder Woman again!). For anyone who logged hundreds of hours in Morrowind it really made Oblivion feel stale. Just to freshen things up couldn't they have hired new voice actors?

[Jaz]

They implemented features people had liked in Daggerfall and missed in Morrowind (horses and map teleport), but these features were rather unnecessary in a game world as small as Oblivion's.

[Remus]

I finished the game after completing the Dark Brotherhood and main quest lines. The questing system felt same as in Morrowind, no improvement, and got outshinned when compared to quest in The Witcher, Gothic series, Ice windale, etc.

However if you create your own adventure, collectig books, hunting, etc it's still as fun as Morrowind, with good atmosphere, good sound and graphics. It's better if you play it as a sandbox type game.

[Konjad]

Well, actually I feel bad when I think I payed for this $65 (Collector's Edition that I bought it in USA). The vanilla Oblivion was fun for a few days but later I saw how shitty it is. I mean I loved Morrowind, but everything that was good in Morrowind they made worse in Oblivion. The good thing about this game is a Construction Set and modders that really improved the game (Im not talking about new houses etc, but mods that improve the game technically, like "Deadly Reflex"). With gigabytes of mods this game starts to be fun. But still this game is dumb. NPCs that talks to me like I were a retard, MQ about being an epic hero saving the world from a bad guy etc. I am sure that I won't buy anything anymore from Bethesda (and now they make Fallout 3 :[ ).

[Greymane]

Well, I guess I disagree with most of you.
I love Oblivion. I think it's heads and shoulders over Morrowind, and any of the previous Daggerfalls.
The faction quest lines are quite good. I liked the Fighters Guild and Mage Guild lines, and I really liked the Thieve's Guild line, and really really like the Dark Brotherhood line, which surprised me, because I'm not a 'dark' type person.
There are more places to find and explore than most people have the patience to do, in my opinion. It is more of a sandbox world, of course, why else have a construction set allowing you to completely rebuild the world?
Just my worthless two cents, it's beautiful beyond belief, and I enjoy just 'being' in the world, and I enjoyed the Guild quest lines immensely as well as the main quest line. Are there some things I would like improved? Sure, but nothing so earthshattering that I'd bad mouth the game publicly. My thanks to Bethesda for Oblivion, I still enjoy it after all this time.

[JDR13]

I was thinking of reinstalling Oblivion after not having played it in over a year, I just have a question.

Is it still necessary to use a special patch in order to activate anti-aliasing + HDR lighting, or did they finally get around to fixing that?

[GhanBuriGhan]

I was thinking of reinstalling Oblivion after not having played it in over a year, I just have a question.

Is it still necessary to use a special patch in order to activate anti-aliasing + HDR lighting, or did they finally get around to fixing that?

AFAIK that was a hardware limitation at least for Nvidia cards. You can manually enable it for ATI cards. If your card is good enough for high resolutions, the absence of AA isn't very noticeable.

...Yup, thats what the FAQ still says: http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=561101
(topic 4.15)

[GothicGothicness]

Yes, the first card to support AA and HDR was the ATI X1800XT my geforce 7800 GTX was the last card not to support it :(

I think AA + HDR makes a very noticeable difference in certain situations.

[JDR13]

Thanks for the replies. I have a geforce 8800 GTS 512, so it looks like I should be good to go. :)

[Kostaz]

Hey guys why is this one still sticky?Les Let's Rant and Rave About Fallout 3:biggrin:!!

[Corwin]

It's still here to stop people ranting about Oblivion in the middle of Fallout 3 threads!! :)

[JDR13]

There simply isn't that much to rant about in Fallout 3, it's actually a good game!

[txa1265]

There simply isn't that much to rant about in Fallout 3, it's actually a good game!

Exactly, there are plenty of things to quibble about, and even some decent complaints, but *rant* ... not really. Certainly not like Oblivion.

[Kostaz]

There simply isn't that much to rant about in Fallout 3, it's actually a good game!
I agree but there are many people who hate Fallout 3 more than Oblivion,for me F3 is much better than I expected.

[mute]

...i just got Oblivion for my Xbox360. The GOTY edition. After playing Fallout 3 on my pc with a gamepad i wanted to revisit Oblivion, but on my pc the Gamepad didn't "work". (I have the Collectors edition for my PC).
(It worked but it was really lousy implemented)

(O boy, its Dead space fault that i even started with a gamepad...)

The experience on the XBOX on the couch its soo much better. I even like closing Oblivion gates now. The game feel much more relaxed.

And i was surprised about how good it looks on the Xbox... only thing i detest is the loading of extra content (shivering isle and knights of the nine). Lets hope i now finally finish this game.

(Just wanted to make sure this thread was about oblivion ... :) )

[JDR13]

I agree but there are many people who hate Fallout 3 more than Oblivion,for me F3 is much better than I expected.

I can't understand how people could hate FO3 more than Oblivion ( I personally like both games, although I've only played a little of FO3 so far). Bethesda did away with the #1 complaint, which was the level scaling.

I would guess that the majority of those FO3 "haters" simply don't enjoy the post apocalyptic setting, or they're old time Fallout fans who are still crying over the loss of their isometric view and turn-based combat.

[txa1265]

I would guess that the majority of those FO3 "haters" simply don't enjoy the post apocalyptic setting, or they're old time Fallout fans who are still crying over the loss of their isometric view and turn-based combat.

That would be my assumption as well.

[lanux128]

didn't Bethesda did a cool job of integrating the turn-based system in the game via the VATS system? i speak from hearsay since i've yet to receive my copy of FO3.

[Yeesh]

I'd like to rave about the fact that Amazon sold me a brand new GOTY edition for $19.99 with free shipping. After watching USED copies go for $28-30 like clockwork on eBay, I felt like I won the lottery. Now that I have the game, I must wait 3 weeks or so before I have time for it. Still, I'm excited to play the game in it's mostly-finished (and properly modded) state, at a price behind which even a cheapscate like me can get.

[The Master]

I bought Oblivion shortly after I bought my 360, and I played it a few times, but the game is so big that I can't keep my attention focused on it for long enough to actually do anything. Don't get me wrong, it seems to be a very good game, it's just so large that I would never get around to finishing it.

[Corwin]

Welcome to the forums. Depending on how you play it, and what, if any, mods you use, the game is not actually as big as previous offerings like Morrowind, or Daggerfall!!

[Korplem]

I can't understand how people could hate FO3 more than Oblivion ( I personally like both games, although I've only played a little of FO3 so far). Bethesda did away with the #1 complaint, which was the level scaling.

I would guess that the majority of those FO3 "haters" simply don't enjoy the post apocalyptic setting, or they're old time Fallout fans who are still crying over the loss of their isometric view and turn-based combat.

I really like FO3. My main problem with the game is that they didn't completely get rid of level scaling. At level 16 I constantly run into death claws and I have to waste a ton of ammo just to get where I want. That was the show stopper for me. I couldn't stand the hordes of death claws.

[Corwin]

Weird, I've only fought 2 all game and I'm level 18.

[Korplem]

Maybe I got a random, hidden perk: Clawed to Death.

Seriously, I stopped having fun because of the amount of death claws...

[lanux128]

my experience is that Deathclaws are concentrated on the north-east section of the map. are you by any chance exploring that area?

[xSamhainx]

the only thing that i really fear are those behemoths!

[Dez]

my experience is that Deathclaws are concentrated on the north-east section of the map. are you by any chance exploring that area?

Yup they are roaming that area because there is actually a nest full of them in the north east..:)

[Korplem]

Last time I played I was in the south-west...

[lanux128]

then i can't imagine what it'd be like when you reach the Deathclaw Sanctuary. :)

[naistradamus]

I didnt think Oblivion was very good. Its just a huge world with nothing to do.

-The quests are boring and irrelevent to the world unless you do the main ones.

-the character facial generation is impossible to use to create a character with an even remotely "Normal" looking face.

-the world is too big with too much pointless stuff filling it up.

-autotravel from one end to the other end of the world makes the worlds size pointless

-starsigns are imbalanced in strength.

-spells and abilities are too scattered all over the place in an inacceble manner.

[Relayer]

That's why you download the Adventurer's mod.

Fixes a lot of those issues and makes the game a bit harder without adding too much (Obscuro's Overhaul).

Game still isn't great by any means, not even good as far as an RPG but makes it a less annoying, somewhat decent action/adventure RPG-lite.

So if you liked Oblivion, it will improve the game.
If you disliked it a bit, it may make you dislike it a lot less.
If you hated it, there's nothing that can be done, heh.