Jade Empire.

[Acleacius]

We have a lot of new info coming about JE and the release, so anyone looking forward to the title or if you have any questions you can ask here. :)
Since I am listening to So long, Wolong as I write this and it's such an excellent Asian themed cut, I am throwing up a linky.
http://www.summoner.com/downloads/wolong_mp3.zip

Ok here are the newest pics posted 1/18 by Dhruin.
http://jade.bioware.com/specialedition/screenshots.html

JE is using the Aurora engine so many are encouraged at the mod potential much like KotOR, Bioware's last PC game.

Maybe the RPGWatch JE experts Jaz and PatrickWeeks could tell us about their favorite characters and the different powers.
It seems there are two sides to the Chi of the players, Open Palm and Closed Fist which represents the spectrum of good and evil, as in past Bioware titles this could have an effect on the world and characters around us.

The expected release date seems to be 2/25/07.

[Corwin]

JE does not appeal at all to me, so I'm giving it a miss!! Dragon Age will be my next Bioware buy!!

[Acleacius]

Yes that sounds very good, too.
Did you see this article from 12/07/2006?
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=3&cId=3155733
Do you recall if this is a 2007 title?

[txa1265]

Do you recall if this is a 2007 title?

I would say that sounds quite optimistic ...

As for Jade Empire, I have heard it is quite over-rated from some folks ... I don't know if I will pay full price for it - probably wait a while or look for a good sale.

[Acleacius]

I couldn't recall the release time do you mean it's more in line with 2008 or 2009, I honestly don't have a clue?

I see a price of $40 US, so for the length of play in the range of 20-30 hours, seems very reasonable price range, especially since they did do a proper port of at least KotOR quality, well afaik.
Since I am a huge fan of Asian Martial Arts I know unless they completely drop the ball, I will enjoy it.
I can't tell you have many times I sat at watched even without subtitles, especially in the early days when it was impossible to find Jackie Chan flicks here in the US.

If I had to recommend one it would be the original version of Mr. Canton and Lady Rose also listed in some places as Miracles, iirc was an absolute marvel to watch.
Most English speakers will watch the Americanized version which is certainly watered down but enjoyable and like all JC made moives it is family friendly.
I don't think they use blood and most if not all of his action is based on Charlie Chaplin (his peer) styles of violence, though i'm not sure this is true of the US films he makes.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098019/

Iirc, JC directed, stared and wrote this title, while I am not sure how to describe this, he achieved the longest, continuous, and moving indoor shot.
In 99.9% of movies as characters move through rooms there is a cut well not here I believe Anita Mui walked through 4 maybe 5 rooms without a scene cut.
JC's eye for the shot is quite remarkable whether it's the Armor of God series, Project A series or Police Story series of course the action and comedy are always entertaining.
Seems the low point of all his movies are when he has been forced to work with US studio in an effort to get some recognition in the US, to bad really.

I can sure understand people whom aren't Asian Martial Arts fans being more cautious and as certainly getting a better value can boost incentives, maybe some sale prices won't be too far off.

Bioware defiantly has weakness in their release philosophies, it certainly could be the cause and effect of working with m$.
They basically shoot themselves in the foot by having to do releases so far apart, especially when you’re talking about years, which has got to be insane from a PR standpoint.
Look at how well m$ ports to PC go over, 90% are like rocks sinking to the bottom of a pond and it's quite possible only Bioware games have been able to make the jump with some degree of success.
Bioware seems to care about the fan base they are building so this must be related to m$, bs. ;)

[Jaz]

Maybe the RPGWatch JE experts Jaz and PatrickWeeks could tell us about their favorite characters and the different powers.So having played it makes me an expert? Teehee, I like that :). It's been a while, so let's see if I remember details...
Who were my favorite characters and why? Basically, you have three different character types (I don't have the special edition, so no Monk Zeng for me... wouldn't know his specialties): the fast type (Furious Ming/m and Radiant Jen Zi/f), the hard-hitting type (Tiger Shen/m and Wu the Lotus Blossom/f) and the mage type (Lu the Prodigy/m and Scholar Ling/f). You can also create your own character, but you'll have to use one of the preset avatars.
I played the game with Jen Zi first (Open Palm), then with Tiger Shen (Open Palm), then with Scholar Ling and finally, Lu the Prodigy (both Closed Fist). It is nice how the villagers talk about you at one point, not noticing you're walking by, and how they give a physical description... heh.
In CRPGs I usually play the artillery (~mages), but here I tried all 'professions' available to me, not least because I liked their looks :).
While Jen Zis moves looked great, it was a lot easier with the less-graceful style of Tiger Shen, especially in the earlier levels. But isn't this the case in most CRPGs, anyway? The mages were great artillery as usual, but since anyone can use even the most powerful spells after a while (just to different extents), it evened out advantages.
My favorite Character was... hm... it'sa draw between Jen with 1000 Cuts style and Long Sword and the Tiger with White Demon and Double Axes. My favorite spell was (surprise, surprise, and it's far too strong) Jade Golem, and my favorite Chi side was Open Palm (I have serious difficulties playing more or less evil characters, my heart just isn't in it. Evil works only when I'm the GM).
My favorite follower was Sagacious Zu (sniff - I won't go into this any further as there have been many threads over at the official Bioware forums lamenting his in-romancability), then Sky and Chai Ka.

I'm another martial arts fan, so I take it you'll like the game, Acleacius. JE could have been much better, but it was really good as it was.

[PatrickWeekes]

Favorite character: For me, Kang. No contest. Whirlwind is up there, but Kang was all over it. And Master Li. I really enjoyed what they did with his character.

As non-funny followers go, Dawn Star was my favorite. But then, I'm a light-side sucker paladin wuss. :)

In the original game, styles ultimately didn't matter that much because you could get through the game so relatively easily once you realized that all you had to do was jump over people and then punch them. That said, playing for enjoyment, I really really liked Spirit Thief, which lets you steal Chi from people. Spirit Thief lets you almost ignore your Health and put all your points into Spirit instead, because you can always use Chi to heal yourself in-game, and hey, if you run low on Chi and are good at dodging, you can suck the Chi out of other people and use that very same Chi to heal yourself.

Jade Golem, at least in the Xbox version, was dramatically overpowered, as was Storm Dragon. So, uh, try them out. They might still be kinda fun. :)

As starter styles go, I liked Legendary Strike and Leaping Tiger (unless I'm botching the names -- it's been awhile), because they were the balanced ones. Thousand Cuts is really fast, but the range blows, and White Demon was too slow for me to really enjoy it, powerful as it was.

I liked Jade Empire, personally, but I think that I was a really good target audience person for it. I play a few fighting games, but not many, and I play a lot of roleplaying games. As such, the fighting was fun for me, not too hard and not too easy. (I hope it is indeed harder in this version.) I still wish that we'd gotten a deeper inventory system than the essence gems -- but that was a core choice in designing the game: make something that even people who don't do RPGs will be able to understand. I think it was a good learning experience, in that stripping down the inventory didn't bring in flocks of new users, and made a lot of people unhappy. (I know that in this edition, there are more gems, but you're still not going to have a full inventory system. That might not be what you want to hear, but I'm trying the crazy path of, you know, not lying.)

And as for BioWare's policies shooting them in the foot -- well, I addressed it in the other thread, but I don't see it as foot-shooting. I see it as something that made sense for a small company and now doesn't make as much sense. It's easy to look back and say "Wow, horrible move!", but at the time, BioWare needed the very generous deal that exclusivity contract offered in order to get Jade Empire made at all (along with Dragon Age, which still does not have a publisher, meaning that all of DA's development has been paid for by other projects).

Ultimately, and I say this not to bump up my own bonus, seriously... if you want to send a message, give Jade Empire a chance. Vote with your dollar. Say "I am NOT going to buy an Xbox to buy your games, but I WILL believe in your games enough to buy them even a year later." That's going to send the message that the PC market is powerful enough to be worth prioritizing (in the form of expanded content and in the form of what platforms to develop for).

[magerette]

I really respect Bioware for the quality of their games, but for a long time now I've felt they were in a rut. It seems like they have applied the same formula every time they tackle a new type of game, and the only new things going on are not necessarily better ones. This description of JE has made me think that perhaps they've come out of their box a bit, so I will keep an open mind, Patrick.
I'd like to see them succeed at some real innovation--and making a console port appealing to crusty pc rpg players would cetainly epitomize that.:)

[Acleacius]

Jaz
"I like that "
Well you are sure an expert to me. :)
You know I am a sucker for Mages also and will probably be my choice and I always play at least CG though not really LG since I take stuff from chest and bodies that don't belong to me, technically. :biggrin:

PatrickWeekes
" For me, Kang. No contest."
Is Kang, Keng or is Keng actually Kang, more importantly is Kang Keng or Keng Kang the new male/female choices in the new content PC version. ;)

"As non-funny followers go, Dawn Star was my favorite. But then, I'm a light-side sucker paladin wuss"
Excellent, I love funny and I am a light-sider too, so I will like Dawn Star.
I’m just not the Paladin type though, cause if a female NPC is wearing a dress and climbed a ladder, I would look. ;)

Nice, sounds like lots of powers and attacks/weapons in this new system, though I never have really played fighting games, since it's an RPG with Martial Arts I’m looking forward to this, even if it's a lot of button mashing in the fights I really feel I would like the story. :)

magerette
"I've felt they were in a rut. It seems like they have applied the same formula every time"
Really something about the formula of BGs, MDK2s, NWNs and KotOR seem repetitive and disappointed you?
I rather enjoyed them, the NWN OC grated on my nerves occasionally and the obvious disappointment as a PC (only) gamer, Bioware has to sign on with m$'s console exclusives, forcing us to wait 2 years to get their games now.
It's completely understandable to insure their continued existence, as too many great devs has been lost and from the way its been said ME maybe the last of these 2 year delays, woot! :)

Anyone know if there has been any info released about the system requirment due to the added content?

[magerette]

Acleacius, I have enjoyed all the Bioware games to one extent or another(except MDK-not sure what that is) but I never finished BG2 or NWN1 or KOTOR because everything seemed blurry and repetitive after awhile.(Could have been my graphics card:) )

Some of the NPC's were solid, but others made me contemplate abandoning my alignment(NG or CG) and committing murder. Also, back in the day, the AI pathfinding issues drove me nuts. But the stories, dialogue based play choices and the dnd influence were all excellent and they were high quality, addictive games which I played a great deal--I've played through Throne of Baal almost to completion twice.

But KOTOR, while having a lot of fun moments, also seemed much more dumbed down and streamlined-and though "new" in terms of setting, was really very similar in terms of everything else.

NWN & expansions seemed very repetititve in terms of the kinds and types of characters and quests. They were still fun and still high quality games and I'm not bashing them or saying I didn't enjoy them(well, except for the OC-didn't much care for that). They were just predictable, and more of the same. Hence, the rut remark.

I wouldn't say these games disappointed me--perhaps it was I who expected too much from them. My favorite Bioware games were the Icewind Dale series, so maybe that explains it all ;)

Anyway, I had no interest in Jade Empire before this thread, but I am thinking that possibly I might consider playing it now, as I also enjoy the martial arts thing. If it isn't just Baldur's Gate with Fists of Fury, that would be even better. : )

[Jaz]

"As non-funny followers go, Dawn Star was my favorite. But then, I'm a light-side sucker paladin wuss"
Excellent, I love funny and I am a light-sider too, so I will like Dawn Star. But as Patrick already said, Dawn Star was quite non-funny... a nice girl, but not funny at all. My Tiger Shen was instantly in love with her, you see... no, she definitely wasn't funny. Neither was Silk Fox (and she wasn't a nice girl, either. Cheeky and with a huge chip on her shoulder, but not nice). And Chai Ka's hostess wasn't all that funny, either... involuntarily funny, perhaps ^_^.
No, no, the funny guys in the troupe were all, erm, guys: Hou, Whirlwind and Kang the Mad.
Nice, sounds like lots of powers and attacks/weapons in this new system, though I never have really played fighting games, since it's an RPG with Martial Arts I’m looking forward to this, even if it's a lot of button mashing in the fights I really feel I would like the story. :)Don't worry, it didn't play like a fighting game at all. At least the Box version didn't. There wasn't more or less button smashing than in any other random action RPG.
MDK2So THEY made it? Hmmm... I never played MDK 2, but I loved Shiny's first part to bits. The soundtrack was great, too, I even bought it on CD.
@Magerette: MDK was a flashy, arcade-y, yet quite fresh and fun action game featuring a rubber-clad protagonist, a scientist and an airship-piloting dog. It was so weird you absolutely wanted to see the next level... I have never seen MDK 2, though, and thus have no idea if Bioware were able to keep up the flame of the first one.

[PatrickWeekes]

Minor nit: BioWare didn't make the Icewind Dale series. I don't remember whether it was Black Isle or somebody else, but it wasn't BioWare. Someone licensed the engine.

Regarding magerette's note about repetition getting old after awhile, I think that's actually why BioWare is focusing on shorter games -- or more specifically, shorter-critpath games with more optional content, as opposed to games with a very long critpath. Ideally, you'd finish it before getting too bored with the combat (or the oft-similar hallway-with-room-with-four-bad-guys-and-a-loot-box theme), but people who wanted a longer play experience would get that from sidequests.

We'll see. On the Xbox, Jade took me about 35-40 hours, but I moved slowly and explored everything.

Also regarding combat: the easy-arcade design was at least in part there to answer the concern of combat getting dull after awhile. As it turns out, "Hit B to jump over them, then A to kill them" isn't a whole lot less dull than "Click on enemy, watch PC attack, wait for bad guy to eventually fall down and shoot XPs out of his bleeding torso" after about 30 hours, though. We've heard really good things about the new combat system in this version, but I at least haven't seen anything yet.

[Corwin]

Patrick, IWD was from Interplay and Josh Sawyer did much of the design work for it. The original, was his first game!! (I used to be a regular on the Bioware forums back then!! :) )

[Acleacius]

magerette
Actually they only did MDK2 not MDK (Murder Death Kill), no one ever uses anything but MDK2 which is basically a quirky comic book, shooter (with puzzle elements), a Q type scientist, a janitor/reluctant hero and a 6 legged robo dog all defending earth from alien invaders.
It actually would make a good kids game if it wasn't actually intended as one, despite the name which was originally made by Shiny, MDK and Earthworm Jim may have been Shiny's only good games as they are the ones whom made the Matrix games.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/914406.asp?q=mdk%202

Did you complete KotOR? It maybe has one of the best plot twist of any game made, about 60% of the way through the game, just trying not to spoil it for you. :)

Jaz
" But as Patrick already said, Dawn Star was quite non-funny"
Heh, oops, you know from the point of reading the post to writing mine, looks like I got the funny and non-funny NPCs backwards. :S

"So THEY made it?"
Yes and on the gamerankings they are MDK 89% and MDK 2 86% but the Shiny MDK is only reviewed by 4 while 43 reviewed MDK 2, plus MDK2 has a much better story (funnier) imo and much better graphical look.

PatrickWeekes
"Minor nit: BioWare didn't make the Icewind Dale series."
Ok thanks, when you say it now that seems right but when I looked at the Moby list I bet they didn't distinguish between create and publish.
Between mixing your funny non-funny NPCs and not catching the publisher bit, I may start needing to drink more caffeine, yeah that’s it! ;)

Or is Moby completely wrong the more I focus my Chi on it didn't Bioware pick it and possibly all of the BlackIsle licensed stuff during the Interplay debacle, they are usually very reliable?
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/bioware-corporation/

[magerette]

Jaz/AC-Thanks for the explanation of MDK-dogs, robots and combat-oriented janitors -definitely it looks like another hole in my gaming experience I need to fill someday.

Patrick, I apologize for accusing Bioware of making my favorite games;) Must have been those Bioware logos all over the manuals that misled me.NOTE*** humor, HUMOR!!--***

@ Corwin--Indeed it was developed by Interplay, and having lurked the Codex for many years I now know more than I ever could conceive was possible about Herve Caen, France, the stock market and many other Interplay-related topics.:p

As we know by the many times this topic comes up, it's very difficult to determine-let alone execute- the mix that makes a great rpg, and no doubt that's why we see so many that fall short.

Devs/publishers are bombarded by consumer feedback on levels that other products never see. The pressure to not just sell but sell bigtime is ratcheting way up, and so many different talents have to come together to do so that perhaps a formula is all there is to cling to sometimes.

But companies, like people, occasionally need to reinvent themselves,while somehow in the process retaining what made them unique. Hopefully, that's what JE, ME and Dragon Age are all about.

**phew hopes she is off the hook now**

[JemyM]

Some people already played Jade Empire on XBox, now there are some already playing Jade Empire on PC, and a few have to wait even longer.

As a Bioware/Obsidian fanboi, I purchase all their games, this is no exception. However, I am deeply dissappointed over the "XBox exclusive" thingie that delayed Jade Empire and now Mass Effect from me as a PC gamer, but still, whenever there's a bioware/obsidian roleplaying game it's usually gold.

[Maylander]

Great game, although too short. A run through it takes roughly 14-16 hours even with all sidequests. I really enjoy playing in a different setting than the usual medieval style, and Biowares' writing is, as usual, of high quality. My favorite NPC is probably the chef with the crazy wife, he's got some hilarious stories to tell. As for playable character I prefer the balanced guy in the blue clothing, can't recall his original name - I called him Revan.

Favorite martial art: Iron palm
Favorite support style: Storm Dragon
Favorite magic: Tempest, because of the area paralyze
Favorite weapon: Tang's Vengance
Favorite transformation: Jade Golem, both this and Red Minister are slightly overpowered, but fun to play.

[Jaz]

Hm, on my current run through the game I'm at 15 hours, and I just arrived at the capital. This time I'm trying to be thorough.

[txa1265]

Hm, on my current run through the game I'm at 15 hours, and I just arrived at the capital. This time I'm trying to be thorough.

This is my first run, and I show 17 hours having just arrived in the capital ... but I know I've left it running and done other stuff, so I don't know how that impacts time.

[Jaz]

It certainly does. Happened to me once, too...

[txa1265]

It certainly does. Happened to me once, too...

Makes sense, since I didn't think I had put more than 10 hours into it.

[Jaz]

It didn't happen to me this time around (yet), but my outrageous time might have to do with sonny commenting everything all the time ('No! Make this man go away! I want the woman! Pleeeeeease! - Can I play with the bees*, mommy? Pleeeease')

_______________
*the Flying minigame, he's good at it, and he's only three...

[Maylander]

That might have something to do with it, hehe. Also, I play all games fairly straight forward, meaning I jump directly from quest to quest, solving everything as fast as possible. I have completed all sidequests though, except the final part of a questline called Lord Lao's Furnace. I am currently doing a "Jade Master" game, which is a new mode on PC where you start the game over with a character that has completed it, with full skills and everything. So far it hasn't been very challenging, but definetly harder than playing it regularly - enemies are a whole lot tougher, even the AI seems better.

[JemyM]

Finished the game, all subquests. Took me a few days. Loved the game and sad that there wont be a rpg of that quality for awhile.

[Acleacius]

"('No! Make this man go away! I want the woman! Pleeeeeease! - Can I play with the bees*, mommy? Pleeeease')"

:biggrin:

[JDR13]

Finished the game, all subquests. Took me a few days. Loved the game and sad that there wont be a rpg of that quality for awhile.

It doesn't look like 2007 is going to be a strong year for single player crpg's. Bioshock and Hellgate London seem to be getting most of the hype, and both of them look to be more action-adventure than rpg.

Some great looking first person shooters and RTS games coming out though.

[Maylander]

Two Worlds, The Witcher and so on are coming as well. It might still turn out to be a decent year. :)

[bjon045]

That shoot-em up sequence is the only fun part of the game. Hope dragon age is a lot better.

[Gorath]

I just found out that the German Jade Empire for PC is cut. Most blood and gore has been removed. Result: The XBox version was rated "16", the PC version is still rated "16". Well done, Bioware!
So much for this game.

[JemyM]

It doesn't look like 2007 is going to be a strong year for single player crpg's. Bioshock and Hellgate London seem to be getting most of the hype, and both of them look to be more action-adventure than rpg.

Some great looking first person shooters and RTS games coming out though.

I made a list here of some more titles to look out for (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I would put Sacred 2 & Silverfall into Action-RPGs as well, from what I've read about them this far. And of course Titan Quest. And HellgateLondon.

[Moriendor]

Agree :) . It should also be safe to delete Bioshock and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. They are straight shooters (RPG elements were stripped from S.T.A.L.K.E.R a looong time ago and the folks from Irrational seem to be very keen on avoiding the 'R' word as much as possible when they are talking about Bioshock... they seem to emphasize it's an FPS every chance they get). Also, Drakensang has been pushed back to Q1/2008 a couple of months ago or so.

[JemyM]

Agree :) . It should also be safe to delete Bioshock and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. They are straight shooters (RPG elements were stripped from S.T.A.L.K.E.R a looong time ago and the folks from Irrational seem to be very keen on avoiding the 'R' word as much as possible when they are talking about Bioshock... they seem to emphasize it's an FPS every chance they get). Also, Drakensang has been pushed back to Q1/2008 a couple of months ago or so.

Even without RPG statistics, both looks very much like roleplaying games to me. Bioshock focuses heavily on moral choices and personal decisions. In Stalker you buy/trade/upgrade/exchange weapons, run quests and use dialogue between people you meet so even without statistics it still looks alot like a RPG.

Although I moved the whole thing here (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14)

[JDR13]

Sadly, the list is somewhat small and nothing really stands out. The "Action RPG & Cross-Genré" catagory looks to be the strongest.

Of all the games listed, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has me the most interested by far.

[JemyM]

Sadly, the list is somewhat small and nothing really stands out. The "Action RPG & Cross-Genré" catagory looks to be the strongest.
Of all the games listed, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has me the most interested by far.

You are correct. And if I somehow stated that 2007 would be a strong year for RPG, I will have to pull back that statement.

It seems Russia pwnz though, at least four of the games I look forward to were made in Russia, three of them have no established releate date in Europe/US.

Not the time for Dragons may suck, but I wouldnt mind checking it out.

[aries100]

I just found out that the German Jade Empire for PC is cut. Most blood and gore has been removed. Result: The XBox version was rated "16", the PC version is still rated "16". Well done, Bioware!
So much for this game.

Please note that this was not Bioware's decision to do so. To cut blood & gore out of the German PC version (of JE: SE) has been decided by the German publisher, not Bioware. If you read the official Bioware forums dealing with JE: SE(for pc), you will see that Bioware does not agree with this decision, but in order to get the games out in say Germany (and other parts of the world), sometimes compromises must be reached.

I don't understand why you would say that the Xbox and PC version are rated
16+ as this is a PEGI rating, and Germany has its own rating system in which the USK rates the game. And their ratings typically has as 12+ and 15+ mark on them.

If you would like to have the uncut game, you could download it digitally from the Bioware store.

[txa1265]

Of all the games listed, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has me the most interested by far.

I have it pre-ordered ... but still have reservations. Oh well, after all this time I couldn't *not* get it ;)

[fatBastard()]

Great game, although too short. A run through it takes roughly 14-16 hours even with all sidequests.

*sprays lukewarm tea all over the screen*

*Cough* *cough* What?!? I know I'm not exactly fast but I just finished the game last night and the timer said just over 40 hours of gaming. If I subtract a few hours of idle time of leaving the game on while eating and such and another few hours for not being Bruce Lee and therefore taking my time in some of the fights, it still took me at least twice as long to complete the game.

Heck, all the dialogs alone take about 15 hours so I simply can't fathom how you could complete the game that fast without skipping all the sidequests or at the very least by rushing through the dialog.

Oh well, each to his own I guess but I just don't get it why anyone would want to rush through a game like Jade Empire (or any other RPG for that matter)

Anyway, Jade Empire is far better than I had feared (you know, with it being a console port and all). Sure, the flyer minigames feels just as out of place as the pod racing and turret mini games did in KOTOR but the detail in the animation of the different martial arts styles was damn impressive (I'm a bit of a nut about Hong Kong martial arts movies). The Viper style was like Jackie Chan in "Snake in Eagle's shadow" and even the magic styles looked like they had been taken straight out of a movie like "Chinese Ghost Story" or a similar high fantasy wire-fu flick :biggrin:

The costumes also look pretty authentic, at least according to the movie style with the weird hats and impossible long beards and eyebrows :lol:

A very enjoyable game in my opinion :lol:

[JemyM]

I do not get the people who claim Jade Empire is "too short". I did not clock it but Jade Empire took almost as much time as KOTOR for me. I did all the subquests (including all minigames and the entire Lord Lao subquest) and I believe I spent 3-4 whole days in the game which is also the time it took me to finish KOTOR. There are some MASSIVE optional quests in the game. In fact, most areas in the game are optional. If you just push the main quest you easily give up more than 50% of the game, and I do not think I exaggerate if I say that over 70% of the quests are optional. I believe it took me over a day to finish everything in the city and I could have finish the city in less than an hour if I dumped all optional areas.

In the city you really just need to get Silk Fox, beat up the first opponents in the area, then run to the fortress. The flight missions, Lord Lao's Furnace, Black Panther, the rest of the Arena, the Garden, the Theatre, the ghosts in the graveyard, the slave traders etc are all optional

[txa1265]

I could have finish the city in less than an hour if I dumped all optional areas.

Wow ... I never thought about it that way ... but then I'm funny about considering side-quests as optional. In other words ... I don't ;)

[JemyM]

Wow ... I never thought about it that way ... but then I'm funny about considering side-quests as optional. In other words ... I don't ;)

I always complete games 95-100% in the first run, leaving no stone unturned as long as I know where they are. I never replay the game again after finishing it.

Unless the game is 100% new I use walkthroughs to make sure I get to see everything on the first run.

[fatBastard()]

I always complete games 95-100% in the first run, leaving no stone unturned as long as I know where they are. I never replay the game again after finishing it.

Unless the game is 100% new I use walkthroughs to make sure I get to see everything on the first run.

I know the feeling but with the introduction of the Good vs. Evil paths in KOTOR and several games since then, there are quests that can't be taken, let alone solved, once you've chosen your path.

The companion exploration in NWN (and to a lesser degree in NWN2 as well) also forces you to make choice since only campanions you actually travel with will reveal their past to you.

When I finished Jade Empire (without looking on the interweb at all) I realized that I was missing 2 allies, 2 or 3 flyer missions and the last part of the Lao's forge (sp?) section. One ally, I found out afterwards, was not possible as the shiny beacon of open "palminess" that I was so that is okay but I still missed out on a few things. Oh well, another run through with a fist fighting hot chick instead of my peacefull shaolin monk will rectify that mistake :biggrin:

[JemyM]

I know the feeling but with the introduction of the Good vs. Evil paths in KOTOR and several games since then, there are quests that can't be taken, let alone solved, once you've chosen your path.

The companion exploration in NWN (and to a lesser degree in NWN2 as well) also forces you to make choice since only campanions you actually travel with will reveal their past to you.

When I finished Jade Empire (without looking on the interweb at all) I realized that I was missing 2 allies, 2 or 3 flyer missions and the last part of the Lao's forge (sp?) section. One ally, I found out afterwards, was not possible as the shiny beacon of open "palminess" that I was so that is okay but I still missed out on a few things. Oh well, another run through with a fist fighting hot chick instead of my peacefull shaolin monk will rectify that mistake :biggrin:

Thing is, to me Good & Evil isnt really an option. I cant play evil and find no entertainment in doing so. NWN did not offer me much but I did complete the story for the NPC's in Hordes of the Underdark as much as I wanted with the only exception that I wouldnt mind Deekin a bit longer, but I wasnt that interested to replay the whole game just because of Deekin. In NWN2 I felt the same, so I cheated a bit with the influence rating after I was done to find out what would happen if I acted differently, but replaying the whole game for that was too much for me.

While I could replay Jade Empire with an alternate character, alternate fighting styles, maybe with an alternate love interest, it's simply not enough difference when I already know the end and all plot twists in the game.

Only two games I have replayed recently is Oblivion (I made a character to play the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild only) and Max Payne 2 (finished 4 times for the alternate ending before there was a cheat available).

[Moriendor]

I don't understand why you would say that the Xbox and PC version are rated 16+ as this is a PEGI rating, and Germany has its own rating system in which the USK rates the game. And their ratings typically has as 12+ and 15+ mark on them.

Since Gorath is German, I think he knows the rating system that is used here ;) . Please refer to this page (http://www.usk.de/90_Die_Alterskennzeichen.htm) at the USK website to find out that 16+ is a valid USK rating and -no- they didn't just change it last week either. Germany has never had a 15+ category to my best knowledge. Neither for movies nor for games.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

If you read the official Bioware forums dealing with JE: SE(for pc), you will see that Bioware does not agree with this decision, but in order to get the games out in say Germany (and other parts of the world), sometimes compromises must be reached.

Yes, Germany is notorious in cutting things out.

Command & Conquer had changed everything "human" into "androids" because there was a strong chance it wouldn't be sold here, then.

Green blood is common, too.

[Gorath]

Please note that this was not Bioware's decision to do so. To cut blood & gore out of the German PC version (of JE: SE) has been decided by the German publisher, not Bioware. If you read the official Bioware forums dealing with JE: SE(for pc), you will see that Bioware does not agree with this decision, but in order to get the games out in say Germany (and other parts of the world), sometimes compromises must be reached.
I´ve checked the Bioware forums a few minutes ago. Bioware´s position is clever from a business perspective. As far as I can say it doesn´t correctly represent the way the German USK (rates the game if they think it´s within the requirements of the law) and the BPjM (can only act if the USK refuses to give a rating to a game) works though.
The USK gave the full uncut XBox version a "16". It´s quite unlikely they would have cganged this unless the PC version included much more explicit violence. I think it´s more probable the USK would, if communicated correctly, have considered the PC version content-identical to the XBox version and thus given it the same rating.
Unless the way the USK rates changed dramatically since the release of the XBox version it´s not logical the same game would receive a more restrictive rating just because of a higher resolution, let alone two steps up the ladder. (16->18-> "rating refused")
Now Take2 ordered the gore and special moves cut out - with no positive effect on the rating. Which is no surprise because neither the USK nor the BPjM use a checklist to determine a rating. The overall tone of the game counts - and it´s obviously not changed significantly enough to get a "12" by removing the mentioned things. That´s what I think did really happen. T2 wanted to get a "12", they failed and just let it like it was.


I don't understand why you would say that the Xbox and PC version are rated
16+ as this is a PEGI rating, and Germany has its own rating system in which the USK rates the game. And their ratings typically has as 12+ and 15+ mark on them.
I wrote "16", not "16+". Germany uses USK rating. PEGI doesn´t matter over here. Both versions have the blue "16" sticker.

If you would like to have the uncut game, you could download it digitally from the Bioware store.No thanks. I want a box and a disk. ;) Maybe when I see it on budget in the UK. Or really cheap in Germany. I heard at least the gore can be put back in.

[JDR13]

LOL. How do you people finish games like KOTOR and JE in 3-4 days?!? Don't you have jobs and such? I spend enough time gaming to constantly piss off my girlfriend and it still takes me at least a week to finish games like that.

[fatBastard()]

Thing is, to me Good & Evil isnt really an option. I cant play evil and find no entertainment in doing so.
HA! I know EXACTLY what you mean. I haven't been able to play either KOTOR game as a dark sider and I only managed to get halfway through NWN2 as a lawful evil Warlock before I couldn't stomach the taint anymore :blush:

I wanted to start another run through of Jade Empire with a closed fist character but only a few minutes after starting a new game the bad taste of foulness returned. What a pair of wussies we are :rolleyes:

Only two games I have replayed recently is Oblivion (I made a character to play the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild only) and Max Payne 2 (finished 4 times for the alternate ending before there was a cheat available).
I actually did all of the factions on my first run through of Oblivion. The Thieves Guild didn't cause me any qualms because of the "no killing while on the job" rule and since the first entrance giving kill (and the only innocent blood spilled) for the Dark Brotherhood was unavoidable if you wanted to complete the Grey Champion quest, the bad taste was sort of washed away. After that, the rest sort of deserved their fate anyway :)

I haven't gone through Max Payne 2 several times but the first Max Payne I must have played through 3 times in the vanilla version and after discovering the kung fu mod I must have played it at least 4 times more while kicking and punching to my heart's content :cool:

[xSamhainx]

I can play short-term or whimsical evil, like running around city streets wiping innocent people out here and there just to watch them blow up, or go berserk and see if I can kill everyone in the tavern or town without the guards being able to take me. Then, I reload my game and play normally.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

HA! I know EXACTLY what you mean. I haven't been able to play either KOTOR game as a dark sider and I only managed to get halfway through NWN2 as a lawful evil Warlock before I couldn't stomach the taint anymore :blush:

Strange. So far I thought I was the only one reacting like this.

Can you imagine how all the people pressing in in the official Drakensang forums saying "we want to play evil in Drakjensang" appear to me ?

[JemyM]

Can you imagine how all the people pressing in in the official Drakensang forums saying "we want to play evil in Drakjensang" appear to me ?

They make me want to vote for and against child abuse at the same time.
For because the spoiled brats need proper spanking.
Against because child abuse might have created the sad devils.

[Jaz]

So far, Fable was the only game where I actually had fun playing an evil character... because it was so hilarious being silly. But my first character ended up as outrageously good, as always (~neutral good).

[Role-Player]

Maybe some people don't stand and stare at the scenery to inflate playtime.

I just finished the game without speeding through it and the savegame registers 20 hours, and that was taking things at a leasurely pace along with completing all the optional quests - including yon standard romance plots, the Raiden-styled minigame, becoming Arena champion, finding and activating all the available recipes in Lao's furnace, and so on. I don't recall having skimped on any sidequest, other than one or two which required an exclusive moral path to be undertaken.

I suspect a replay would clock below 20 hours since I already have most of the game pat down; even shorter than that if I replay the game with a final save character.

[Zakhary]

I'm not gonna start a new topic about Jade Empire so I'll post here :D

I just finished this game for the first time. I quite liked it.
I hated the combat.

The first 50% of the gamewas "OK" but it really got more and more
interesting in the end. The plot had a nice epic feel to it and I liked the
end part of the game. It seems I too missed many of the "optional" things in this game. It was definitely worth playing. definitely. I might even play it again in a year or two. or three.

The soundtrack to this game was absolutely marvellous. I need to get it so I can listen to it outside the game.

Also you who "can't understand playing evil" are just plain wrong.
Playing a cruel and malicious character is great fun in any game.
Games that force you to be a shiny-do-gooder-help-all-the-poor-****ing-grandmas-asking-for-help are disgusting.

I admit sometimes choosing the really cruel lines in a discussion might feel hard sometimes.. especially if the game is even a little emotionally involving.. but after you do it - it's worth it :D

Someone actually FINISHED Fable without being evil?! That was the only fun thing about that game. What?! You actually freed the inhabitans of that brothel?!?! Ugh... you make me sick!

[curiously undead]

i always intend to replay a game as an evil character but there's really no insentive. roleplaying a character that i would despise just doesn't overcome the powergamer lurking and the need to "see it all". while i agree that the games should give you a choice, i'm actually (now that i think about it) kind of pissed that in fable, kotor, and other such games the writers and devopers spend nearly an equal amount of time crafting evil responses as good ones. are there really that many people who play out evil, and do those people care about depth? i much prefer games like gothic were your actions are more along the lines of beating someone up, killing them, or stealing from them. to me when dialogue trees are wasted on all kinds of ridiculous responses that don't actual "do" anything action wise...its such a waste. i love humour in a game and sadly many bioware games specificaly save the humour for chaotic and evil characters--boo! but we live in the age of choice and most people would probably prefer 4 sub par restuarants they could eat at rather than only having one really good one.

[txa1265]

Someone actually FINISHED Fable without being evil?! That was the only fun thing about that game. What?! You actually freed the inhabitans of that brothel?!?! Ugh... you make me sick!

:D

Yeah, I played mega-good, glowing and all, with hearts just flowing out of people as I walked down the street ... I enjoy that stuff ;)

[Prime Junta]

I wanted to start another run through of Jade Empire with a closed fist character but only a few minutes after starting a new game the bad taste of foulness returned. What a pair of wussies we are :rolleyes:

I don't think it's so much that we're wussies (I'm also a gamer goody-goody, generally speaking). It's that evil is usually really badly done in games. It's un-fun, caricatured, gratuituous cruelty and nastiness, and almost invariably nowhere near as well rewarded as good. This makes evil pretty much a non-choice; the game mechanics themselves push you towards the good path.

Take NWN2: in Chapter 1, pretty much the only evil options are gratuitous cruelty (e.g. slitting the Mossfeld brothers' throats in the initial battle), not actually tagged as evil (e.g. killing Slaan during the first encounter, robbing inns and houses along the way to Neverwinter), or not options at all (e.g. that one act of arson you have to do if you're on the "low path").

I would be very interested to play a game where evil was done in a more... evil way. Or real way. Where evil is the easy choice, the temptation, the quick reward; the small cruelties and omissions that stain your soul and slowly harden your heart, something you have to constantly fight against... or succumb to it. Petty evil is just petty; great evil only follows from the noblest of motivations, when the end starts to justify the means and eventually becomes the end in itself. The KOTOR games come close to dilemmas like this at times -- the Genoharadan quests, the early parts of KOTOR 2 where you get to pick your side, that sort of thing. However, it's still pretty simplistic, and much of the "dark side" is still just petty cruelty.

Yep-o, I'm still waiting for the game where evil is the easy, tempting path and good is the path you really have to work at. Perhaps there will be one like that one of these days. Hell, if not, I might even make one myself. :-)

[Zakhary]

I don't think it's so much that we're wussies (I'm also a gamer goody-goody, generally speaking). It's that evil is usually really badly done in games. It's un-fun, caricatured, gratuituous cruelty and nastiness, and almost invariably nowhere near as well rewarded as good. This makes evil pretty much a non-choice; the game mechanics themselves push you towards the good path.


You have a very good point there. The big problem here (in addition to that) is that when - for example - a poor helpless farmer comes to you begging for help and says that he has nothing to offer you and you are given the choice of accept his quest, politely decline or say something very nasty to him... most people will just accept the quest automatically knowing that they WILL gain all sorts of reward: XP, loot, gold, equipment.. perhaps even a nice little subplot or something. Those playing evil characters would just have to be satisfied with saying "no" or saying something vulgar and then leaving him there crying or just kill him (And in case of JE or Fable be "rewarded" with a small increment to some cheesy "evil" counter).

That's not right.

Exactly as you said, it should be the valiant un-selfish do-gooder that is left without gold, women and fame.

Very good point you made there.

[Prime Junta]

Exactly as you said, it should be the valiant un-selfish do-gooder that is left without gold, women and fame.

Another thing that bugs me about games is that unintended consequences are so rare. In real life, it's not at all uncommon to do something with the best of intentions only to screw it up real bad. In games, this sort of thing is rare enough to count as a major plot twist (or, alternatively, completely pointless diversion).

For example, Jade Empire's Closed Fist would have been a much stronger experience if you could actually see it work. For example, taking the Closed Fist path with Smiling Mountain's challenge results in the death of one of your student colleagues. This is obviously rather... discouraging. Imagine if instead the converse was true -- say, being nice to your fellow student results in her being so trusting that she gets tricked into opening the school gate to the invaders. Now, imagine that the outcomes of the Open Palm/Closed Fist choices were roughly evenly divided this way.

I for one would like it.

[fatBastard()]

Way back in the early days of CD-Rom games there was this wonderful game call "Wing Commander 3: Heart of the Tiger". Anyone old enough to vote must surely know the game but for our younger audience I can say that it is one of the great space shooter games of the time.

Somewhere along the path of the story you're betrayed by a friend and it costs the life of another of the characters you've gotten to know pretty well. With said person's dying breath the cry for vengeance is placed on your shoulders and I myself was trembling in rage (yes, I was) so when given the choice to storm after the traitor or count to 10 and calm down, there was initially NO choice for me. However, while I was off playing the right hand of Mr. Big, the carrier came under attack and because I wasn't there to help another of your friends dies ... now THAT was a tough decision to make. On one hand the NEED for revenge is mighty strong but on the other hand the satisfaction is tempered with a profound consequence for your action. Punish the betrayer and let another one die or save your friend while the betrayer gets away.

Rarely have I had to put so much thought into what choice to make. Excellent stuff. Damn you EA for closing down Origin :shakefist:

[Ubereil]

Ooh, great idea! If nothing else it would make the good path a lot less rewarding...

Übereil

[Prime Junta]

Ah, Wing Commander 3. Good times... yeah, I remember that too. I still hate that bastard, and took great pleasure in blowing up his damn planet for it, never mind the cries of the innocent boiling into vacuum...

Ironic, though, that the one game remembered for that sort of thing would be a totally on-rails thing, almost an interactive movie with some (pretty good) space fighting in-between clips.

(Damn, I liked that Longbow...)

/me sinks into happy pool of nostalgia

[zakhal]

Wing Commander was great allthough I think i liked the xwing series a bit better. Tie Fighter was perhaps one of the best games ever made. I actually bought the entire xwing series few months ago. It has upgraded resolutions, graphics and xp support. Starting to play from the first game of the series (xwing) its still as fun as ever.

[danutz_plusplus]

...and Max Payne 2 (finished 4 times for the alternate ending before there was a cheat available).

There's an alternate ending to Max Payne 2? Now how on earth did I miss that?

Anyway, I'm also enjoying Jade Empire. I've reached the Imperial City, and I like everything up until now. The combat system could have been a bit less repetitive. I mean all I'm doing is staying in Leaping Tiger style spamming standard attacks with a leap attack now and then, and it works perfectly. They could have enforced players to change between styles more.

Other than that I like the music, the dialogs are nice, the story is acceptable. And I love the "wolverine" look of the main character if you use Leaping Tiger.

[Acleacius]

danutz_plusplus
"There's an alternate ending to Max Payne 2? Now how on earth did I miss that?"

Hehe, I found that and posted it first on the official forums. ;)
I played MP so much I knew about the registry settings, and after I finished MP2 the first time, thought hey wonder if they do it the same way, so I skipped the Nightmare mode and went Strait to Hell!
It's the real ending by the way, if you only played Normal and Nightmare then you don't know what really happened. ;)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Hello, everyone,

I found that I can register my game "Jade Empire" on the official Bioware site.

The question I have is this: The thing, one has to give there, is this an individual sticker ?

It's because the item needed to register (I don't want to spoil too much about it), looks different on my "Special Edition" metal case, than it is in the picture shown on the Bioware site. And there is no individual sticker

Or in other words: Is there anything I can do wrong ?

If you believe that this would be illegal to post this information openly, pleae write me a PN about things that can go wrong, rather this, because I'm not sure whether I've fully understood the registration process or not.

I'm a bit confused, because I know from NWN1 and other games that there is usually a looooooooong phrase to type in, and my Jade Empire Steelbox doesn't have it. (Look into the "Pricewazch" thread, it's an price-reduced version of it).

Thanks,

Alrik

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Hm, I guess you don't even see the problem ... ?

[Jaz]

Sorry...
I own the XBox version, and when I just tried to register my game to try and help you I discovered that I already registered the game back when I joined the Bioware forums... *scratch scratch* I have no idea what I did to register it back then, but I believe there there was no individual sticker involved. Just entered the product ID printed on the case or something like that.

[aries100]

When I registered my Special Edition (PC) Jade Empire game, I used the UPC code, sometimes also known as the barcode. If you have the back of the box, the code is just under the lines that got scanned when you bought the game. I think this is what Jaz is referring to as the product ID (code).

My guess as to why the item? you need to register looks different on the Bioware site is that it shows te back of box made for the Northamerican market whereas your PC Jade Empire game's box was made for the European market.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Ah, so UPC Code = Barcode ?

This was the information I needed. Thanks ! :)

[JDR13]

I'm playing Jade Empire SE for the first time and I have a question.

Is it necessary to focus (no pun intended) on a select number of styles, or can you earn enough style points in this game to be a "jack of all trades"? I'm only level 5 right now (2nd restart) and I already have 6 different styles. So far I've been dumping points in "Thousand Cuts" and "Fortunes Favorite".

Also, which Transformation styles are worth building up? I have Rhino Demon and Demon Toad right now but have never used them.

[Jaz]

It's quite possible to become a Jack of All Trades though I preferred focussing on two styles (of which I ended up using only one). The only transformation I actually used a lot was Jade Golem which comes late in the game, but from then on you're definitely overpowred, anyway.

[JDR13]

Thanks Jaz. A few more questions...

My NPC companions seem incredibly weak compared to me, is it that way throughout the game? Can they increase in level?

What is the purpose of that laughably bad mini-game? Is there any point in trying to do well in it?

[Prime Junta]

Thanks Jaz. A few more questions...

My NPC companions seem incredibly weak compared to me, is it that way throughout the game? Can they increase in level?

They can and they do. They'll still stay a good deal weaker than you. Pay attention to how they fight, though -- you'll find that if you choose a companion to complement your style, it'll work rather well.

What is the purpose of that laughably bad mini-game? Is there any point in trying to do well in it?

The flying one, you mean? There's a pretty interesting series of side quests you'll only get by doing well in it; you have to pay attention to what random people and your companions are telling you, though, to get there.

[GothicGothicness]

I think that mini-game is quite good, I enjoyed it! And also blackwirlwind is a strong fighter did you try him ?

[Maylander]

I use the NPCs for support only - various types of regeneration can be really helpful. Enter the party selection screen and put them on support to get them to actually not fight, but instead sit around and boost you.

Also, I usually save up points for some of the later styles. The only one I get almost full from start is the long sword style, which is very good untill you reach a certain point.

My preferred styles are dual axes for weapons, jade golem for anything heavy (this one is very overpowered to say the least) and sumo wrestler thingy to kill ghosts (or the poison one if you're "evil"). In most games, I end up relying on the axes and sumo thingy, as the Jade Golem is extremely unbalancing.

[GothicGothicness]

I used that gun, made it really easy to complete it on hardest setting.

[JDR13]

Just want to add that this game kicks ass. I have no idea why I waited so long to play it.

[Prime Junta]

So... which one do you like better, JE or ME?

[JDR13]

So... which one do you like better, JE or ME?


I'm still fairly early into Jade Empire. I've restarted twice and now I'm level 7 with my current game. I haven't play very far into ME yet either. In fact, the whole reason I started playing Jade Empire to begin with was because I'm still waiting for the "Bring Down the Sky" DLC to be released for ME before I try to finish it.

I've played 3 different games of ME of a few hours each with an Adept, an Infiltrator, and a Vanguard. I'm really torn over which one I want to start a serious game with, since I rarely replay a game unless it's been years since I've played it.

Ask me again in a few weeks. ;)

[Prime Junta]

Will do. I'll be off on vacation on Wednesday until August, and will try to stay off the Internet then (mostly), so I'll remember that for when I come back. :)