Fallout New Vegas thoughts

[crpgnut]

Fired up the new game last night and it's nice to see blue skies for a change. It seems like character animations are better too, at least in the couple hours that I got to look. I rolled up a character and turned on hardcore mode, just to see what it was like. It didn't take me long at all to trash that character and start over in normal mode. I don't mind needing to eat and drink, etc. but I would have expected it to be automated if you had the right stuff in inventory. It's too much micromanagement for my tastes otherwise. I want to play, not stop every 10 minutes to eat or drink or sleep. I can see this being a popular feature though for folks wanting a harder challenge. As I mentioned in another post, I've already had a minor betrayal, which was kinda cool. It looks like there will be a global inventory chest of some type too, which will be handy.

Now that the Geck has been released I'm sure we'll see several popular mods from F3 get converted pretty quickly. There is already a nudity mod! I might be interested in a carry weight mod, I'll have to play more to see. Since I'm not in hardcore mode, ammo doesn't have any weight. I'd love to see the pack donkeys from Nehrim make an appearance in FNV.

[JDR13]

I'm leaving in a few minutes to go pick up a copy, although I won't be starting it for awhile. I'm really looking forward to playing the Hardcore mode.

If it seemed like you had eat, drink, etc. too often, it's probably because of the default timescale setting. In Fallout 3, the default timescale was 30:1, meaning that for every minute that passed in real time, 30 minutes passed in the game, and an entire day only lasted 48 minutes. I don't know what the default timescale is in NV, but I'm assuming it's the same. I'm playing FO3 with a timescale of 8:1, and it feels a lot more realistic that way.

I've seen some hilarious videos of some of the bugs in NV already...

[Ergonpandilus]

I don't mind needing to eat and drink, etc. but I would have expected it to be automated if you had the right stuff in inventory. It's too much micromanagement for my tastes otherwise.

Sounds perfect for me. :D

[JDR13]

Lazy gamers.... :roll:

[Lemonhead]

I've seen some hilarious videos of some of the bugs in NV already…

I've heard that some of those videos are with a pre-release pirated version of the game. But whatever, I'm not accusing you of anything but it's more a comment on how people will complain about things they pirate...

[VDweller]

My impressions:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1748.0.html

[Thrasher]

Quest design sounds interesting, with choices and consequences between the factions. My interest level just went up a notch! But if you have to slog through tons of boring combat and slow loading screens....

[crpgnut]

I haven't really noticed any loading screens, though they could exist. One on one combat isn't real exciting most of the time, but there have been SEVERAL battles where I've lost and had to choose a much more strategic plan of attack.

[Thrasher]

I watched the live video streams when it was leaked late last week, and the loading screens were terribly frequent and slow. THIS was on a 360 though. Not sure if the experience would improve significantly on a decent PC...

[human_male]

I've only played for a morning or so (not including the two hours I spent fretting about my face) and I think it's good but they made a lot of changes that I think were unnecessary, particularly the running animation on the female model. Hate it. Also some sounds, like gunfire don't seem as punchy.

I like the Hardcore mode but I'm worried it's going to be essentially pointless because so far I've found tons of food and drink. What's the point of needing to eat and drink unless it's going to be somewhat hard to find? Also ammo and other loot seems to be quite plentiful, which is a disappointment. In F3 I always hated how abundant ammo and health supplies were, it took a lot of the challange out of the game. It looks like it will be about the same in this game too. But I haven't played it long enough to judge.

And just like F3 you get too much XP for things and level too fast. I'll be avoiding picking locks and hacking computers like I did in F3 as a way to slow my levelling. Disappointing.

Other than that it's great so far.

A high point so far was when some Powder Gangers blew themselves up trying to use dynamite to kill some bloat flies.

[human_male]

Sounds perfect for me. :D

Same here.

[human_male]

Another thing I just discovered is that crippled limbs don't seem to have an effect. I hit a couple of land mines and got my limbs crippled. One leg and one arm are completely stuffed, the other arm and leg are at about 50%. But if it weren't for the little "You've been crippled, find a doctor..." blurb I literally wouldn't notice. I'm not gimping, I can run as fast as I did before, and there is only a little swaying when I aim my gun.

I always looked at F3 and wondered why they even bothered with crippled limbs because they were so easy to heal with stimpaks, so I was excited to hear that wouldn't be the case with NV on Hardcore. But they've gone one better and apparently removed any effect of being crippled at all. Is it just me? Am I missing something? Admittedly I haven't been in a fight since being crippled so I don't know really how much my aim is off, but I'm definitely not gimping. Anyone else noticed this?

[Maylander]

Sounds very interesting guys. I also read the whole thing posted by VDweller - nice topic, lots of good information. Looking forward to getting my hands on this.

[akarthis]

Just started playing the game.

I managed to get crippled too and i noticed nothing. I am hoping, maybe, that my aiming skills will be reduced(crippled my hand). I really hope so.
And yea,i want less food and less ammo.
Finally, i like very much the fact that skill use is quite often. Makes me wonder what skill to raise later!

So far so good

[skavenhorde]

Same here.

Add me to that list :)

[JDR13]

I've heard that some of those videos are with a pre-release pirated version of the game. But whatever, I'm not accusing you of anything but it's more a comment on how people will complain about things they pirate…

What the hell does me mentioning a video have to do with pirating??

Here's what I was specifically referring to (http://www.ggmania.com/?smsid=29846), and I'm pretty sure Gameguru Mania isn't using a "pirated" copy.

[JDR13]

And just like F3 you get too much XP for things and level too fast. I'll be avoiding picking locks and hacking computers like I did in F3 as a way to slow my levelling. Disappointing.

Indeed... looks like I'll be using another XP reducing mod.

[skavenhorde]

This again? I thought I read that they were slowing down how fast you level up.

BTW, I'm DOWNLOADING IT NOW from Steam!! Finally!! I was going to wait till the hard copy was released, but screw it I can't wait anymore.

[Maylander]

Yeah I was initially thinking I was going to complete my replay of Gothic 3 first. I might have to ditch that idea..

[JDR13]

I'm going to wait for at least one more patch first.

[crpgnut]

They released a new patch this morning JDR13 :D There is a leveling mod out there that decreases leveling speed by 70%. I'm not sure if it's tweakable or not. I've been to two small towns and all the areas between and I'm level 6 already. Leveling will need to be slowed down a bit for sure. 30 is the max level in this game and I'm 1/5th done already?

[skavenhorde]

Where is this leveling mod? I've been searching and can't find one.

[crpgnut]

Where is this leveling mod? I've been searching and can't find one.

Sorry. http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34836

Hopefully, FOMM and FOSE get released pretty soon because I've got about 10-15 mods already and I'm going to run into trouble eventually. Almost all of these are simple tweaks, but it all adds up.

[skavenhorde]

Awesome. Thank you very much CRPGnut.

EDIT: Did you try MTUI (http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34902)? I'm going to try and play this without too many mods at first, but the level mod and MTUI are too good to pass on.

Description: Essential UI adjustments for Fallout: New Vegas. Smaller fonts, larger item selection areas, improved conversation menus, etc. Designed for screen resolutions of 1024x768 and higher.
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=9&pictureid=20

[crpgnut]

I've downloaded it but I haven't installed it yet. It's a no-brainer though if it doesn't conflict with anything else I have. If DarNUI releases his version, and he is working on it, then I'll have to compare the two and pick one.

[Ergonpandilus]

What are the pros and cons versus Fallout 3, if you'll compare them to each other? Is it worth the money, since Fallout 3 has a LOT of mods and stuff coming out still.

[JDR13]

What are the pros and cons versus Fallout 3, if you'll compare them to each other?

It's probably too early to say, considering that the mod community is just getting started with NV. The games are very similar obviously, NV has the "hardcore mode", although you can mod FO3 to basically have the same thing.

NV has gambling though... :)


Is it worth the money, since Fallout 3 has a LOT of mods and stuff coming out still.

Have you already played through FO3? If so, did you enjoy it?

If you liked FO3, I don't see any reason for you to not like NV. If you haven't played FO3 yet, then I suggest getting the GotY Edition.

[Gorath]

FO:NV has factions.

[skavenhorde]

What are the pros and cons versus Fallout 3, if you'll compare them to each other? Is it worth the money, since Fallout 3 has a LOT of mods and stuff coming out still.

I can't verify this personally yet(just intalled it), but if the narrative is in any ways better than Fallout 3 then that is all the justification I'll ever need. No one has been able to mod out the stupidity of F3.

You don't have to spend days installing mods for F3 that are already included in this game.

Traits :D About time they put that back in.

It looks like the mod community is transfering a lot of mods that were made for F3 to F:NV. With time you'll get the same mods, but in a better setting. I might be a little biased though since for a few years I lived in the Arizona desert. Plus, the west coast beats the pants off of the east coast any day of the week :p

Lastly, like Gorath said, FACTIONS

If DarNUI releases his version, and he is working on it, then I'll have to compare the two and pick one.

Thanks for the heads up that DarNUI is working on it. I'll hold off as well until I see what he comes up with.

EDIT: I can't believe they already have Fook2 for NV. (http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34684)

[JDR13]

There were lots of factions in FO3. I assume you mean that you can actually join them now?

[HiddenX]

4 hours into the game - nice introduction - 'til now it feels more like a western movie than post apocalypse, but it is fun.

(playing on hard + hardecore mode without mods)

[human_male]

I'm pleased to see the levelling system that's been present in these games since Oblivion has either been taken out or relaxed a bit. I was level three when I first ventured away from the town and I ran into a bunch of radscorpions. The big ones! I took a few shots at them with my varmint rifle but got the red shield icon. I killed a couple by jumping on top of an old shack and chucking dynamite at them. After I ran out I legged it. Luckily they're slower than their capital wasteland cousins. That was fun.

I have also started to feel that this is a closer game to the seminal Fallout game, Fallout 2. It feels more like that than Fallout 3 did. The cool Fallout 2 background music helps, also the western feel the game has, that Fallout 2 also had. Plus the references to Fallout 2. It feels more like a follow up to Fallout 2 than Fallout 3 did.

But I'm sad to say I'm starting to find it a tiny bit boring. I still play for four hours straight but I'm not as engrossed as I thought I would be. Perhaps that's because it feels a lot like F3 and I played that game a lot, recently. Or maybe it's just me. I'm having this strange urge to socialise and get out and meet people, and not just sit at home with the xbox. Maybe that's it.

I certainly hope it goes away soon.

[Ergonpandilus]

You don't have to spend days installing mods for F3 that are already included in this game.


Great, just the thing I hate about Oblivion/F3. :)


Traits :D About time they put that back in.


Sounds like it's was F3 was suppose to be. :D

I'm a bit worried about the bugs, since there has been some speak about those and Obsidian has habit of putting games out when they are not completed yet or they make too big promises to publishers.

[DeepO]

I´m about 20 hours in, playing on hard + hardcore.
Crashed twice, scorpion-y fauna has collision issues and few spawns (dogs or scorps) haven´t occurred till I reloaded in the area.
Other than that, the game is amazing so far.
Exploration feels a lot like Gothic, I wonder if there´s any level scaling at all.
Anyway, back to the game.

[skavenhorde]

I had a huge stuttering problem with more than 4 enemies coming at me Here is the fix.

Fallout: NV Stutter fix -

Start the game. Open the console "~"
Type: 'temo'

It gets rid of NPC facial expression. When I had more than 4 or 5 enemies coming at me I would take a HUGE FPS hit. This keeps the game smoothly.

[DeepO]

When I had more than 4 or 5 enemies coming at me I would take a HUGE FPS hit.

Have you tried the solution mentioned in this thread?
http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1123460-potential-fix-for-npc-slowdown/

I´m playing with that file from the get-go and everything has been running smooth, no matter what.

[skavenhorde]

Thanks for the tip, but the command temo works great. I'll just use that until they can fix it in some future patch.

I'd prefer to not mess around with DirectX when it's just the facial expressions that are causing it to slow down.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Great, just the thing I hate about Oblivion/F3. :)

I just had the spontaneous thought of Fallout with Oblivion character models ... - I mean full armor, weapons, races, etc. ...

[crpgnut]

I'm enjoying the faction reputation system. Sometimes, you'll be doing a quest for a town or person and you'll get good rep for one of the factions too, because your efforts benefited them in some way. The only negative to that, is that they seem to know one second after you complete the quest. I would rather see a delay of a day or so on any reputation bumps.

[DeepO]

35 hours in, level 20.
I got so swamped with questing content and places to explore, entering Vegas seems still far away.

Factions feel realistic and infuse the world with a great deal of depth and player with options. Quests are rarely of simple fed-ex kind and even when they are, they usually have a side effect - making player explore and thus find even more content. There are also "miscellaneous" quests which don´t make any use of quest markers rewarding a more proactive player. Lots of skill checks both in and out of dialogue.

Exploration is definitely rewarding and tougher places often reward player with unique or just good loot.

Dungeons I´ve visited were so far of two kinds.
Smaller caves/hideouts with mediocre to bad loot which make the ecosystem more believable/add flavour to exploration/give player a chance to score some exp points. Second type were vaults. I´ve visited two so far, one felt like System Shock 2 with tons of phat loot inside, the other had great story and effing ridiculous finale where I had to reload at least 10 times, heh.
I´m sure more types are yet to come.

I´m playing with two companions, one of whose made combat significantly easier, at least in open terrain. Their combat AI is a bit wacky in close quarters and in a more complicated terrain player needs to be a bit careful not to loose them, but overall they work well. On hard difficulty, they can die quite often and in some particular scenarios it was very difficult to keep both alive, so I don´t think they unbalance the game much.

Writing is solid, voice acting mediocre to good and I feel that for this kind of game NPCs have just the right amount of dialogues, giving them some depth without being excessively wordy. Great thing is how well "organized" the writing is - a lot content is inter-related, NPCs reference other NPCs, events, factions or places in the gameworld, gradually adding more depth to the world. Really, the more I play, the more world around comes alive. Since the game is extremely open ended, I´m sure everyone experiences this gradual "deepening" differently and it leads to a different bigger picture for everyone.

Hardcore mode is maybe a misnomer, because it doesn´t make the game significantly more difficult, but it adds a lot to the overall immersion value by bringing a sensible realism factor into the experience, as well as makes looting more worthwhile. Also, I don´t know how much it´s different from non-hardcore game,
but due to the limited carrying capacity I have to evaluate what to take with me rather often, even with strength 6, strong back perk and two companions to boot.

Crafting system is useful and quite complex and further rewards skill investment and exploring.

Wild Wasteland trait is quite subdued and doesn´t really change the overall feel of the game. These "wild" encounters are rare, nothing really fourth wall breaking and, again, reward exploration with some fun diversion. I also got really useful loot from one of these.

Anyway, even after 35 hours of playing, I think I´m still in a "scratching the surface" phase and since I´m already level 20, it makes me think levelling is definitely too fast. The mod which either raises the cap higher and accordingly adjusts encounters and maybe skill/perk gain, or makes the levelling slower will be a definite must for a potential second playthrough.
The game can be probably finished relatively fast, but thanks to the amount and quality of its content, I don´t think it´s a good way to experience it.

Had three crashes so far, encountered no apparent new bugs (just been lucky I guess), no slowdowns.


The game probably has its weaker aspects, but I´m so engrossed by the overall experience and the game´s good points right now that I frankly don´t see anything notable other than a bit bothersome UI and a bit suboptimal combat system. There was one quest tied to the main questline which was rather over the top, but since it was an exception rather than norm I didn´t mind it, plus it was fun in itself and its quest design was great. And it worked well as a throback to 50´s sci-fis.
Other than that, the world seems inherently consistent and organic.

Anyway, so far it´s definite thumbs up from me and right now I think this might end up being the best sandbox-y modern cRPG.

[crpgnut]

I've been adding in mods to slow things down for me a bit. I hate reaching the level cap too quickly. I've been exploring everthing that I can find and I'm between Novac and BC main-quest-wise. I think I hit level 9 last night but I added the slow-down mod at level 6. I attempted Death Claws last night and was quite rudely decapitated by the first one I encountered. My current stock of weapons could barely hurt them.

[DPB]

There's another slower leveling mod here (http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35178) with more options, you can even slow it down so that it takes 3 times as much experience to gain a level.

DeepO or others further in, how much do you suggest leveling should be slowed down? I'm trying to decide which of those mods to use, the last thing I want is a repeat of Fallout 3 where I hit the level cap having barely explored the map. I'm thinking of using the 1.5x mod, but if it's like Fallout 3 then the 3x mod would be more appropriate.

[JDR13]

Try to find a mod that reduces the XP you gain, rather than one that simply increases the amount of XP needed to level up. That should ensure compatibility with future DLC that might increase the level cap.

[skavenhorde]

I just reached vegas at level 10. I have been using a mod to slow down my XP gain since the very beginning and have put in around 20 hours. I've barely scratched the surface of this game and I'm already at level 10.

I had been exploring every little part of the wild wild wasteland, but once I hit Novac I had enough. I really wanted to see vegas so I just hoofed it straight there. Now that I've seen it I'm going back to Novac and going to explore around Vegas.

There are interesting places EVERYWHERE. I just ran into one by accident that involved someone/thing (still not sure about that) I just met in New Vegas. Gives him more background. I hope that this will be mentioned later in the dialogues with him or relate to some quest later on.

Even if I did hit the level 30 max I think I still would enjoy playing it. I quit F3 once I hit level 20. I was bored to tears because I could kill anything I ran across and there wasn't anything interesting anymore. With F:NV everywhere you go there is at least something interesting thing to see
Like:

There's a place I found near spotlight. It's a bromin/bighorn ranch. The house is burned down and notes are spread around. I won't tell you what they say, but it explains what happened there.

Now because of what happened the bromin/bighorners and their calves are malnourished. Has anyone found a way to save these poor guys? :( Damn animals whether they're real or computer genereated always hit a soft spot with me. Now I want to save them, but haven't found any rancher who needs a ranch or anyone else who even hints at the existance of this ranch.

DeepO's impression of the game is similar to my own. I'll leave my companions outside if I go into a cave or a vault. It's just too hard to keep track of them. I'm finding more companions everywhere I go, so I just might go for more realism and if one of my companions die then let him die/no reload. Except forthe little eybot. I love that little guy.

Skills actually matter this time around. Especially SPEECH. I have that one up to 60 because it is not a throw away skill anymore. There are only three skills I am trying to max out. Guns - 60, Speech - 60 and Science - 55. You can't just throw skill points around willy nilly like you could in F3. Repair and survival are also essential if you want to create better items. I have repair and survival around 35. They'll be the next skill I focus on.

The NPCs are alive and the quests actually make some kind of sense. As for factions, I'm still confused about why I get bad karma for stealing from a faction I'm pretty much at war with.

For example:
I wiped out the powder gang at the NCRCF. I became infamous within that faction, yet I still get bad karma for taking anything from them. Odd.

Also another thing about the powder gang. I don't understand why there was no mention anywhere that I had cleared out the NCRCF or at least killed their leader.

One word of warning about choosing quests. Choose carefully before you accept. I learned something about one of the factions that might had helped me in a larger war later, but by then I had almost wiped them out of existance. I may be overthinking this, but to just be thinking about it at all is great. F3 there was nothing like this at all. You had a few different factions that were plainly evil, good or just freakin crazy o_O In F:NV you don't really know the whole picture about factions until it's almost too late. There's a faction in New Vegas that I'm doing some work for that I sure would like to know more about. I'm barely given any details about what I'm doing other than the bare minimun. Even with a high speech value I can't drag anymore details out of anyone.

So basically the biggest improvements were exactly what I thought they'd be. NPCs (SPEECH IS USEFUL:excited:)and the plot. All the other stuff is just icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned. Really really great icing :)

Here's a little hint from J.E. Sawyer that I saw him tweet about. It involves one of the vaults:

Vault 34 is for advanced players only. It's one mean dungeon. Gotta love it :)

One minor complaint that I hope will be addressed with a future mod. Bartering is still almost worthless. I have too many caps as it is with a barter skill of 20. The prices of stimpacks should be a lot more and I shouldn't find as many of them. Actually the prices on everything could be increased.

In addition, I have way too many items. It took me close to an hour to move all my stuff from Goodsprings to New Vegas. If there was a better inventory manager this might not be a problem, but with this console interface it is extremely tedious to do any kind of inventory manangement.

That's a small complaint and one that I bring on myself because I have to collect almost everything I find. The bartering system can be fixed with a good mod. Hopefully the inventory system as well. Even if it was something like Darknui's Oblivion mod that would help a lot. Small icons instead of a list. I hate that freakin list.

[crpgnut]

I'm choosing to be an NCR homey this game, though I'm sure they're up to no good. Avellone doesn't believe in "good" guys. Everyone has an agenda. I haven't stepped near Vegas yet. I have no qualms about dropping in any mods that catch my fancy, and I've got 6 or 8 running. There has already been an overhaul-type mod released, though the gal mentions that it's just a basic version until the script extender gets released. I'm doing the quests surrounding Forlorn Hope and having a good time. I'm an explore everywhere type guy too and I can't tell you how many places don't have a little map indicator for them. There are a LOT of places that don't show on the good ol' pip boy.

Arwen's realism overhaul:

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34759

[HiddenX]

55 hours (lvl 20) into the game - good game. You can see in Fallout New Vegas, how great it is for a developer to concentrate on story, choices and consequences, factions, dialog and gameworld design.
The old Oblivion engine was already there.

[DPB]

I'm enjoying this a lot too, what I most like is the way the world is designed. Fallout 3 was a vast improvement from Oblivion in that respect, but it still got very repetitve in areas like the endless metro tunnels which had that copy-paste Elder Scrolls feel. At least in the first 20 hours of New Vegas (I've explored most of southern part of the map) there's very little like that - most areas seem like they're a proper part of the setting rather than just fulfilling the quota of dungeons.

[Starwars]

Interestingly enough, a lot of people on the Bethboards are complaining about the lack of dungeons and "lack of content" whatever that means.

I think there are a few annoyances in the gameworld, some areas seems unnecessarily annoying to get to for example. But on the whole, I think the Mojave feels far more logical as well as more varied than the DC wasteland.

[JemyM]

I gave myself 10 charisma, 7 intellect, 7 perception and used strength/endurance as dumpstats, plus took both perks that made me faster with reduced physical restance. So I am basically a glasscannon. Vats give me 7 shots with laser pistol at level 1.

I focused on science, speech and energy weapons.

[Damian Mahadevan]

You do realise that some weapons including energy weapons need the stregth to avoid penalties in accuracy right. IMo having 10 charisma makes the game harder. Then again you could possibly do well with a lot of companions.

[huggster]

LVL 11, about 20 hrs in.
Exploring south areas with "friends". I really like the level design. From what I recall FO3 was undulating hills? I like what they have done with it here.
I have had whiffs of stalker, deus ex - just from some of the explorable areas.

Music is very good, especially around certain areas there is a really sad piece that plays.

My Char is not overly strong by himself, but my buddie(s) are rockin - a high charisma does wonders. I have about 9 CHA, 9 INT, 6 STR and 4/5 on other stats. I cranked up lock picking to the max as there are still loads of locked areas and I love rummaging for goodies. Next up is guns, repair, speech, then maybe science.
Playing on Hard with Hardcore on, but if it starts getting too easy I can crank it up to Very Hard. Still get wasted in some areas, which is reassuring.

Enjoyed the quests so far. Still throwing surprises at me in areas I thought were safe ….

No crashes at all, some graphic glitches but nothing a reload does not sort. Once or twice a critter was stuck in a wall, no big deal as I could kill them if I reloaded.

I don't use VATS and get along fine.

This is much better than FO3. Everything seems more grown up. The opinions from the staff at RPS surprise me really (they may have played further or to completion I guess) as my experience has been the opposite. Actually the atmosphere created reminds me occasionally of Metro 2033 - quite "sad" in a way, contemplative.

Somehow FO3 never felt "real". It was very "gamey". This feels much more "real".

[huggster]

You do realise that some weapons including energy weapons need the stregth to avoid penalties in accuracy right. IMo having 10 charisma makes the game harder. Then again you could possibly do well with a lot of companions.

I have a buddy who kicks ass with my high CHA. I also got a perk which gives them another boost if you are below 50% health. I think they made it that you are so "likeable" and such a good "leader" that you can let others do the fighting whilst you kick back and drink Nuka-Cola and plan the next expedition. I read about so many people dumping CHA to 1 and going solo like rambo. I guess there are some technical / bug issues why they do this, but I like having people with me - I have played enough FPS its quite refreshing to have others work for a change instead of playing another run and gun.

However, 1 Strength as a dump stat is pretty low, the character can barely lift a knife or line up 9mm!

[JemyM]

My STR/END is 3 each. I get dehydrated REALLY fast, I dunno if it's caused by my low endurance. Also stimpacks do near nothing. But fine, I'll see how far I can go.

[huggster]

Stimpaks work very slowly .... and if you take too many you get addicted.
Just make sure you scavenge, get buddies (they can help carry) and you will be fine.
I think dehydration is the fastest of the three.

[Damian Mahadevan]

I tried having companions iwht 4 or less charisma... they always die lol.

[figment]

I just completed my first play-through. Steam says 48 hours played. I would say that I visited 90% of the significant locations (excluding all the mines and farms …) and completed 56 quests and sure there were still many not done. I reached level 30 just before the last major battle so for me the leveling was just a little bit fast as I would prefer that level 30 is only reached if you do 100% of content and grind a little.

Played through with hardcore mode and hard and got somewhat annoyed with hardcore mode at the end as it just became mostly a nuisance as I had 20 maize and 20 purified waters in my inventory and had to activate them every once and a while but still glad they added it as an option. Some companions are easier to keep alive than others I found.

I really enjoyed the greyness of the C&C at the end of the game. I ended up doing a sort of calculus to minimize the evil that I was going to perpetrate in the world as I was playing a savior of the wasteland type. The faction I ended up playing for did not make it easy on me and I did one major evil act on a faction that idolized me.

What I really miss is the sprinting option that uses AP that I think FWE added as I got tired of running so slowly through the strip after a while. Would not have minded a fast travel point actually on the strip. Also would be nice to have hotkeys to swap between different equipment load-outs. Anyway enjoyed it more than anything else released this year and I'm sure I will playthough at least once more very soon and can see about 2-3 other branches I would like to explore more completely.

[Maylander]

I just completed it as well. Excellent game overall. I played a gunslinger/smooth talker kind of character, worked out pretty well. Already started my 2nd run, this time with a melee guy/smooth talker - melee is overall easier in my opinion, mainly because I feel guns had somewhat low damage against armored enemies. It might also be because my build is more combat focused this time around; I used PE as a dump stat so I could get 10 ST/EN. PE does nothing for melee that ED-E doesn't do even better.

A few notes:
- There's definitely level scaling in New Vegas. I cleared out Black Mountain at level 18 or so, and bumped into a bunch of Super Mutant Masters with the best sledgehammers. I tried the same at level 8 or some such thing last night, and met regular Super Mutant Brutes with regular sledgehammers.
- I agree with skavenhorde regarding the Powder Gangers. I've seen similar behavior in quite a few places.
- The main quest varies greatly depending on who you decide to ally with, though certain things are still the same.
- Faction armor is dangerous.
- Boone is overpowered.
- I actually found the Vaults less interesting in New Vegas than FO3. Somewhat strange, considering most locations and characters are far more interesting in NV than FO3.
- Sprinting would've been awesome..

That's all I have for now.

[JemyM]

Stimpaks work very slowly …. and if you take too many you get addicted.
Just make sure you scavenge, get buddies (they can help carry) and you will be fine.
I think dehydration is the fastest of the three.

I use the sarsaparilla drink most of the time. It's cheaper than stimpacks, just take longer to use. The dehydration is manageable.

That said, I just love the hardcore system. The "aid" menu is just SO much important now and I love playing around with what I should eat today. The hardest part is to get my hands on doctors bags. I have to go all the back to the first town to heal myself when I get crippled. Sometimes I have been forced to get through an area with quicksave/quickload and rely on pure luck to get by.

I haven't found a buddy yet. Stacking up on Science/Repair to get the robot.

[Maylander]

Spoiler on how to get the robot without the skills:
You simply need the required parts - 3x scrap metal, 2x sensor modules and 1x scrap electronics. You can avoid getting those parts if you have the required skills.

[JemyM]

I learned that if you wish to play with low strength (or whenever really) you can use stimpacks and drugs as hard cash considering they have zero weight.

[huggster]

A few notes:
- There's definitely level scaling in New Vegas. I cleared out Black Mountain at level 18 or so, and bumped into a bunch of Super Mutant Masters with the best sledgehammers. I tried the same at level 8 or some such thing last night, and met regular Super Mutant Brutes with regular sledgehammers.

- Boone is overpowered.


That's all I have for now.

I have a feeling he Boone is as well - he seems to be mopping up. I just send them in to do the dirty work!
Level scaling - lets hope its level scaling done right, if there is such a thing?
Will be on my way to Vegas City soon!, already 20 hrs in

[DeepO]

DeepO or others further in, how much do you suggest leveling should be slowed down?
Late response, but I didn´t feel informed enough to give a good suggestion earlier.
Now that I´ve finished the game, I´d suggest 1.5x (makes exp needed for level 30 to be 100000 instead of vanilla´s 67000) as an optimal multiplier, or something equivalent, depending on how the chosen mod handles slowing down.
I never did any grinding, but explored all marked locations and did majority of available quests (log said I´ve done 71) and with the 1.5x I´ve reached level 30 just a step before the point of no return.
Anyone who wants to reach max level without excessive grinding shouln´t slow it down more than that.

Also, someone in other thread said it´s possible to max all skills in the game, I´d say that´s a bit exaggerated. Jack of all trades is definitely possible, but everything maxed is not.
With an 10 INT character, Tag! perk (adds 15 skill points) and Educated perk (+2 skill points at level up) taken at earliest opportunity and most skill books read I still ended up with:
http://imgur.com/u9ZVv.jpg
Granted, there is still too much skill points available, especially since magazines with Comprehension perk make maxing out some of the skills a bit redundant, but given my character was designed to get as much points as possible, I wouldn´t say it´s that bad.

[JDR13]

I see they chose to eliminate separate skills for "Small Guns" and "Big Guns", I'm disappointed by that decision.

DeepO, how many hours did you log? I'm a bit surprised that you were able to explore every marked location already. Are there less of those than there was in FO3?

[Kostaz]

Does anyone know if you can play as an idiot? Loved FO2 for that part.

[figment]

Pretty sure they do not have the low Int dialog as I have not seen evidence in the GECK. I agree that that was one most favorite variants of Fallout 2. I can understand why they did not add it but would have loved some extra dialog that made playful digs at the players who do min/max to extreme.

[DeepO]

DeepO, how many hours did you log? I'm a bit surprised that you were able to explore every marked location already. Are there less of those than there was in FO3?
85 hours, I haven´t slept much :).
I wasn´t very thorough in exploring locations themselves though, played a non-stealthy character and haven´t tinkered with crafting or gambling.
There´s certainly enough content in the game, there just aren´t any extensive filler dungeons and such. Its design philosophy is much closer to Gothic than to
Oblivion.

[figment]

Quick followup on the low int check. Apparently there are some checks as Ausdoerrt at NMA (http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=824219#824219) points out as well as some others.

[huggster]

Just got to Vegas. Seems like they thought of everything choices wise. Very impressed. Finally a decent RPG that kicks ass. Best since Witcher which could be pretty inconsistent.

[Kostaz]

Hit level 10 after 18 hours and I'm still around the Novac area. That sniper companion forced me to raise the difficulty to Hard because he killed most enemies before I could notice them. I enjoy most quests and the plethora of choices NV offers but I know too little about the big factions. Hardcore mode already feels like a chore and spotting a pre-order exclusive flask (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_13_canteen) at wikia didn't really help.

[HiddenX]

I lost Boone somewhere. So I'm running around with Cass and King's dog.

[Thrasher]

Somehow? I hated the Oblivion companion behaviors. Impossible to control, getting lost or hung up on the environment, running into battle and getting themselves killed. Have they fixed all of this?

[Greymane]

Well, an essential mod for me is Centered 3rd Person Camera http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34744
I hated the default camera view on the PC, this saved the game for me.

I'm enjoying the game so far. It has a lot of quests that take some time to complete and lots of exploring to do too. At about 18, I've pushed into the 'Strip' to see what it was about.. and wowee! so many quests!! I actually felt overwhelmed, so maybe they could work on that.

Factions is interesting, I did major work for one group and got idolized and 1 simple head removal from the wrong person and I was a punk to them.. yikes

I wouldn't worry about the levels so much guys, the game does move up with you. And things other than your level are much more important.

Cass came with a nice line of quests, which makes playing with all the companions at some point an interesting option for replays. If they're like her, they're not just extra firepower, but more story.

So many items to pick up and haul around.. sigh. I actually could go for a simpler version without so much micro management, but that's me. And playing it on Normal mode is hard enough for me too, I still have troubles with many of the fights.

There are some minuses, some bugs, I've tried 3 different characters through low levels and 1 had a broken quest that the others didn't have. I also don't think companions level up properly with you.. not fond of the new run animation, but the gals have a nice walk! ha!

All in all, I am thankful to be able to play this game and will be doing so for many hours I'm sure.

[JDR13]

I wouldn't worry about the levels so much guys, the game does move up with you. And things other than your level are much more important.


That depends.. everyone plays differently. For the completists who like to explore every inch, and milk the game for all it's worth, it pays to get a mod that slows the leveling a bit.

[Maylander]

The way I see it, there's no way to complete everything in New Vegas with a single character (it's impossible due to how factions work), so I might as well save a few locations for later. For example, I hardly did anything for NCR, which is a huge faction with tons of quests. Ended up completing the game long before level 30, even without mods to slow down levelling.

To see everything in F:NV, you have to complete it at least four times (and that is if you choose outcomes fairly systematically - otherwise it'll end up requiring more).

[Greymane]

The way I see it, there's no way to complete everything in New Vegas with a single character (it's impossible due to how factions work), so I might as well save a few locations for later. For example, I hardly did anything for NCR, which is a huge faction with tons of quests. Ended up completing the game long before level 30, even without mods to slow down levelling.

To see everything in F:NV, you have to complete it at least four times (and that is if you choose outcomes fairly systematically - otherwise it'll end up requiring more).

I think you hit the nail on the head with this Maylander.

[JDR13]

Not everyone tries to fly through their game at light speed. A thorough explorer could easily hit the level cap around the half-way point.

I'm glad they implemented the faction quests the way they did though. It's a shame you couldn't join a faction in FO3.

[crpgnut]

I hope that I'm able to get some of the gear that the faction I'm supporting wears. I want some fancy black armor later :)

[HiddenX]

I finished the game today after 65 hours at level 25 (hard difficulty/hardcore mode).
I completed around 90% of the quests/map locations.

Freedom for New Vegas! -> kicking the butt of Legion, Mr. House and NCR

I often avoided combat by smoothtalking. So level 30 is possible in Fallout NV if you do all quests and/or kill many respawns. I reached the level cap(s) in Fallout 3 + addons much faster.
I think I'll replay this game next year.

-> Recommened!

[Greymane]

Not everyone tries to fly through their game at light speed. A thorough explorer could easily hit the level cap around the half-way point.


I am certainly no speed leveler, and I will find every stone and turn it before I stop playing FNV. We are not so different on this point.

Imagine, that when you stepped out of the Doc's office you were auto-leveled to 30. You distributed all your skills etc.. and then you begin to play.. as a full grown man ready to face the world. No levels, no XP points ever again. Instead you now know what you know and will face the world with it, win or lose.

You will learn crafts and recipes as you go, find items, weapons and armor as you go. You will still gain or lose faction, win or lose friends. That is what I would prefer, because that is role playing, instead of leveling. It wouldn't change the game play all that much or stop the exploring or the achievements that you could attain. I might do that with the console and try it, come to think of it! lol

[HiddenX]

CRPG-Meter:

Lets measure the crpg-ingredients for "Fallout New Vegas":

To determine if a game should apply to a certain level, all the mentioned demands must be fulfilled in that level and the levels below.

CRPG Categories:
Story, Characters, NPC-Iteraction, Gameworld, Manipulation, Combat

Other interesting categories:
Graphics, Sound, Game length, Difficulty, Perspective and Play-style.

Each category is divided into 6 frames from "none" to "Heavy" CRPG-elements giving a score from 0 to 5 points.

A games points from each category will be added together and then divided with 6 and will classify it's CRPG-score to the following

list:

* RPG-Elements Score 0 - < 1 point => "No CRPG"
* RPG-Elements Score 1 - < 2 points => "CRPG ultra light"
* RPG-Elements Score 2- < 3 points => "CRPG light"
* RPG-Elements Score 3 - < 4 points => "CRPG"
* RPG-Elements Score 4 - 5 Points => "CRPG Heavy"


The RPG-element categories and their 6 scores/frames
(STORY, CHARACTER, NPC-INTERACTION, GAMEWORLD, MANIPULATION, COMBAT)

STORY:
questions:
- How many quests, side quests, puzzles, riddles are in the game ?
Lots of side-quests, one big main quest with many branches, sometime overlapping with side quests.

- How great is the non-linearity of the game - can the quests be solved in more than one way ?
You can solve most quests in a non-linear order. Many quests can be solved in more than one way, depending on the skills of your character and your choices.

- How many side-stories, legends in books or from NPC's are told ?
Many side stories are told, many old stories, Emails etc. can be found in hacked computers.

- Are there different game-endings ?
yes. The main story has different endings, dependig on your choices. Depending on your action towards the factions of Fallout New

Vegas they are several ending scenes.

- Is it a game with many choices and consequences ?
yes, and often you get more dialog options depending on your skills.

rating:
No: 0 Points:
- The story is told in the beginning, and finished in the end, AND is not changeable during the game.

Ultra light: 1 point:
- A Few ”events” (NPC’s, happenings (Disasters, divine influences etc), Full movies interludes etc.) evolves the story, but still in a given path.

Light: 2 points:
- The story is developing through chapters or milestones, which still have an almost fixed path.
- A very few side stories/quests, OR noticeably different paths you can take to advance the same story, are available.

Medium: 3 points:
- The story develops as the game proceeds, meaning new information’s/events contribute for developing of the story on a frequent basis.
- Events (See above) impact on the story are considerable,
- The gamers actions have considerable impact on the development of the story.
- More than one path is possible in the ”main” story. Not necessarily more endings, just the possibility to choose between different “story” path’s of the “main story”. (Side quests not directly related to main story don’t count).
- A few side stories/quests besides the “main story” must be available.

More: 4 points:
- A few different endings are possible
- More than 2 ways to go through the story
- Lots of side stories/quests are required.
- Quests or tasks got often more than one solution!

Heavy: 5 points:
- Very open ended, with very high replay value regarding the story alone.
- Many events will contribute to many side / main story topics and respond to many different approaches from the player.
- Lots of books or other materials can give additional information’s about world for the interested player.

Fallout New Vegas (STORY): 5 points


CHARACTER:
questions:
- How many different characters can you play ? (race, gender, profession …)

chose your genderm stats, skills and traits freely

- How many different skills can be choosen for your character(s) ?

7 main stats (S.P.E.C.I.A.L. -System)
* Strength
* Perception
* Endurance
* Charisma
* Intelligence
* Agility
* Luck

13 skills (depending on the main stats,
* Barter
* Energy Weapons
* Explosives
* Guns
* Lockpick
* Medicine
* Melee
* Repair
* Science
* Sneak
* Speech
* Survival
* Unarmed


and many more perks

- How many different traits can be choosen for your character(s) ?
10 traits

- How many levels can be reached ?
Level 30

- How much can the character(s) be changed at each level ?
stats can be enhanced with a special perk when you get a new level
skills can be enhanced with skill points when you get a new level
all two levels you can get a perk

- How many guilds, groups can be joined ?
you can do quests for many different groups. You "join" a group if you wear their special armour.

- How many different ranks in these guilds can be achieved ?
No ranking - you can solve quests for these groups.

- Can you get a reputation ?
Yes - for each faction/group

rating:
No: 0 Points:
- No development other than a better weapon, armour and a few pre-distributed skill points after each chapter / milestone.

Ultra light: 1 point:
- Max 2 points to distribute on the character(s) abilities (Attributes /spells / treats / skills) each time they develop levels and

a maximum of 10 upgrades(Levels) of the character(s). Learning by doing covering the same amount of development is acceptable too.

Light: 2 points:
- Max 5 points to distribute on the character(s) at least 5+ different abilities (Attributes /spells / treats / skills) each time

they develop levels and at least 10+ upgrades(Levels) of the character(s). Learning by doing covering the same amount of development

is acceptable too.
- A minimum of social development / regards in the game-world societies is necessary) (Wiping out a society/guild is not counting)

Medium: 3 points:
- More than 5+ points to distribute on the character(s) at least 10+ different abilities (Attributes /spells / treats / skills) each

time they develop levels and at least 15+ upgrades(Levels) of the character(s). Learning by doing covering the same amount of

development is acceptable too.
- The characters can have considerable social impact on more than one society / guild. (Wiping out a society/guild is not counting)

More: 4 points:
- Now a party of at least 3 fully controlled characters should be possible,
- The choice from different professions / races should give a combination of at least 10 possible different characters (Note:

Different mug-shots don’t count).
- Considerable social impact on more than 2 societies / guilds is possible. (Wiping out a society/guild is not counting)

Heavy: 5 points:
- More than 10+ points to distribute on the character(s) at least 15+abilities (Attributes /spells / treats / skills) each time they

develop levels and at least 20+ upgrades(Levels) of the character(s). Learning by doing covering the same amount of development is

acceptable too.
- 15+ different races/ professions to choose from.
- Plenty of societies/guilds which the characters have a social impact on. (Wiping out a society/guild is not counting)

Fallout New Vegas (CHARACTER): 4.5 points (only the main character can be adjusted)


NPC-INTERACTION:
questions:
- How many dialogues are in the game ?
Many

- How many dialogue options do you have ?
A lot.

- Are these options depending on your skills, alignment or deeds ?
There are depending on finished quests, faction reputation and skills.

- Have your answers an influence on the game ?
Yes

- Have the NPC's a life of their own ?
Yes

- Is trading available / is it balanced ?
Yes and yes.

rating:
No: 0 points:
- Few NPC's most only merchants.
- Pre-determined dialogues.

Ultra light: 1 point:
- The dialogues now have a few options, but it still contribute to the same story, AND each choice is reversible in consequence.

Light: 2 points:
- NPC's are presented in small societies, AND some of them can make a difference in further development of the game.

Medium: 3 points:
- NPC's acts truly as a part of a bigger community.
- NPC's in each society are much aware about social status also toward your characters.
- More than one society with NPC's are present in the world.

More: 4 points:
- There are fleshed out dialogue trees,
- Choices is most final and irreversible.
- NPC’s have considerable impact on the amount of Main / side- stories.

Heavy: 5 points:
- NPC's are aware of the continuously developing situation in the game-world, AND react clearly to the gamers actions and deeds.
- More than 2 bigger societies of NPC's must be available.
- Reputation, skills, alignment, attitude etc. have considerable impact on the NPC reaction.

Fallout New Vegas (NPC-INTERACTION): 5 points

continue... (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061032502&postcount=81)

[HiddenX]

GAMEWORLD:
questions:
- Is it rewarding to explore the last inch of the gameworld ?
Yes - you can find interesting items, locations, more quests.

- Are unique items in the game ?
Yes

rating:
No: 0 points:
-The task to get from A to B has no or few options to go away from a fixed physical path.
-The game-world only inhabits monsters and a few merchants.
-The world is without (none monster) societies.

Ultra light: 1 point:
-Still a strict physical path, but with a few small societies on your way.

Light: 2 points:
-A few areas are optional on your path each chapter / milestone.
-Societies will give some quest / story material.

Medium: 3 points:
-There are at least several physical path's to choose between, AND more will open up as the game proceeds.
-Societies must give the feeling of a live community, with their own daily business, AND not just a few NPC's waiting for the hero's

to come along and pass on a few quests.
-The size of the game-world must be considerable.

More: 4 points:
-Societies must be very different and have strong relation to the game-world and each other.
-We are no longer talking about a few path's when exploring the world.
-The appearance of monsters and societies must make common sense.

Heavy: 5 points:
-The world is totally open for extreme freedom to explore, AND it's your own task to decide if your character(s) are good enough
to take on the different part of the world.
-The diversity of the game-world environment must be significant.
-Day & night cycles, and different weather conditions and /or different seasons.

Fallout New Vegas (GAMEWORLD): 4 points (not so much diversity of the gameworld, no weather)

MANIPULTION:
questions:
- Can you manipulate the gameworld ? (levers, buttons, secret doors, …)
Yes, mostly by hacking and lockpicking.

- Can the gameworld manipulate your character(s) ? (traps, teleports, …)
There are mine & rifle traps.

- Can you pick up items, herbs, raw materials and then mix new potions, make new weapons, … ?
A lot - you can make lots of things, weapons,food, … you have to find or buy recipes first.

- Is item-repairing possible ?
Yes.

rating:
No: 0 points:
- Almost no action possible besides walk/run and combat, except maybe a very few items.
- Game-world itself is very static.

Ultra light: 1 points:
- Very few limited interactions besides walking and combat.
- A few chest barrels is scattered through the game.

Light: 2 points:
- There are a few weapons, armours, items in the game.
- Traps, levers, keys and alike is available in it's simple presence.

Medium: 3 points:
- The game-world have a considerable amount of weapons, armours, items, skills, spells in significant variations.
- The things to do will quickly fill up more than one page in your journal, AND keep it that way for most of the game.
- Custom items must be available. (Custom items are items that can’t directly be found in the game-world, the player needs to either

combine more items or process an item with (Fire, acid, poison, magic, tool-masters etc (repairing items don’t count)). It’s not limited to weapons and armour only)

More: 4 points:
- You can see /influence changes in the environment, OR use it either to create/ manipulate things or get strategic possibilities in

combat. (Summarised: Game-world environment itself offers several interactivity possibilities: (Chopping trees, make fire, diving in

water, hide behind objects, move/destroy/manipulate objects, etc.)
- A few different ways of making custom items must be available. (See above).

Heavy: 5 points:
- Many different ways of making custom items must be available. (See above).
- Alchemist, spell-casters, smiths, herbalist and other item collectors are in heaven due to the tons of items for manipulation.
- Gameworld environment itself offers many interactivity possibilities: (Chopping trees, make fire, diving in water, hide behind

objects, move/destroy/manipulate objects, etc.)

Fallout New Vegas (MANIPULTION): 4.5 points (not so many interactivity possibilities)


COMBAT:
questions:
- how many tactics, strategies, spells/counterspells you have to use to survive in combat ? (remark: this has nothing to do with real time vs. turn based combat. example: Rage of Mages: Real time and very tactical)
For surviving combat in New Vegas you need:

1. good gear
2. stimpacks
3. one or two partners
4. VATS (Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System)


- Are there many different monsters, enemies,..?
Yes

- how good/complex is the enemy AI ?
Mediocre

- Is it critical for combat to have a good equipment management ?
Yes

- Do you need resistances against poison, fire, … to survive ?
Yes - good armour and anti-poison, anti-rad pills make life easier

- Is the combat balanced ?
Always balanced - some challenging fights.


rating:
No: 0 points:
- You put your character(s) into position and they solve combat on their own, or the combat result is only affected by your skills

on the keyboard.

Ultra light: 1 point:
- Real-time combat only without any pause options.
- Options are limited to the choice of the opponent to attack.

Light: 2 points:
- Character skills and/or players strategic abilities have a noticeable more impact on the outcome of the battles too.

Medium: 3 points:
- Players can more decide the pace of the battle,
- Strategic positions of the party is more vital, and the options for each character is more plentiful.
- At this point it's also important that monsters offers some diversity not only in numbers, but also in strategies necessary to win.
- Monsters AI are more than attacking the closest enemy!
- There must be more issues for your characters during combat, than loosing or giving hit-points. Ex. Poisoning, paralyse, curse etc.

More: 4 points:
- Their must be alternatives to swing your sword and cast a spell during combat Ex. Skills, traps, spells, treats, or items to use

in battles.
- Different strategies are necessary for survival.

Heavy: 5 points:
- Each characters can be controlled individual down to the smallest detail and in any pace wanted.
- The monsters must offer a lot of difference both in numbers, abilities, battle environment, which must offer quite a diversity in battle approaches.
- Monsters AI are considerable.

Fallout New Vegas (COMBAT): 2.5 points


OTHER NON-RPG RELATED INTERESTING CATEGORIES:

GRAPHICS:
A “Year” of evaluation should follow the graphics score!
We try not to express how beautiful the graphics is (It's difficult to separate entirely), just how many specific graphic technology elements it contains (Like shadows, lightning etc), and it's standard compared to others at the time of the review!

* 0 points: Text only.
* 1 point: Static pictures, and/ or low 2D resolution in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.1 point: Static

pictures, and/ or low 2D resolution in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.
* 2 points: Higher 2D resolution in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.
* 3 points: Mediocre 3D or 2D with up to date standard compared to others in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.
* 4 points: Fully 3D with up to date standard compared to others in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.
* 5 points: Fully 3D. Absolute among the best in it's category, with a few ground breaking content compared to others at the time it is reviewed.

Fallout New Vegas (GRAPHICS): 3 points (year 2010) (Oblivion engine, some problems with shadows, feels a bit old)

SOUND:
This determines the amount and the degree of acoustic technologies in the sound, not directly the quality or realism of the sound,

and not how many different sound boards it covers.

* 0 Points: No sound.
* 1 point: Mono sound.
* 2 points: Very sparse and basic Stereo sound
* 3 points: Plentiful Stereo sound
* 4 points: Support of more than 2 speakers, and considerable environmental sounds.
* 5 points: Fully real surround sound support (At least 5.1), with ultra real 3D feeling

Fallout New Vegas (SOUND): 4 points

LENGTH:
An average length is used for calculation, a second score in “( )” for maximum hours searching under every stone and solving every

quest could be mentioned if it brings the game into another score-area.

* 0 points: Under 8 hours.
* 1 point: 8 - 20 hours.
* 2 points: 20- 50 hours.
* 3 points: 50- 80 hours.
* 4 points: 80 - 150 hours.
* 5 points: over 150 hours.

Fallout New Vegas (LENGTH): 3 (4) points

DIFFICULTY:
you can change the difficulty and select a 'hardcore' mode

* 0 points: No brain teasers at all, only walk /run and hack 'n slash
* 1 point: Easy brain teasers that don't slow the game pace down considerable.
* 2 points: Some problems (Riddles, events, combat, NPC's etc) can make you stop for a short while until you find the relative easy solution!
* 3 points: Not all problems are obvious in solution, but there are more possibilities to get help. The amount of problems must also be considerable.
* 4 points: Some problems can't be solved without help/things from other places or without some in vain tries first!
* 5 points: The game is loaded with more or less hard problems, and many problems can only be solved by extensive brain use!

Fallout New Vegas (DIFFICULTY): 4 points

continue... (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061032503&postcount=82)

[HiddenX]

PERSPECTIVE:
* TXT: No perspective (e.g. no graphics), text games.
* FIX: Fixed viewpoint (Not changeable).
* FLEX: Flexible distance/orientation. The viewpoint distance can be changed and/or the screen can be rotated.
* ISO: Isometric view (Any angle between vertical top-down and 1.st person view, but still seen from above the party/

characters.
* SHOULDER: The close overhead / shoulder view, where the gamers viewpoint follow the character(s) heading, with a look just

above the head/shoulders of your character(s), and the character(s) can be seen in the button of the picture.
* FP: The 1.st person view where gamers viewpoint is the same as looking out of the eyes of the character(s)
* BIRD: From the sky the players has a vertical down view point on the game-world.
* SIDE: View points like Platform games or the elder Kings/Space quest games

Fallout New Vegas: (PERSPECTIVE) SHOULDER or FP


PLAYSTYLE:
* SP: Single player
* MP: Multiplayer
* OP: Online play possible
* MMO: Massive multiplayer online
* Co: Co-operative multiplayer possibility
* PvP: Player versus player mode in multiplayer mode.
* P: Parties possible.
* S: Single character game

Fallout New Vegas: (PLAYSTYLE) SP/P


TECHNICAL STATE:
Fallout New Vegas: use the newest drivers, especially for NVIDIA cards! I had some crashes to the desktop.

Conclusion Fallout New Vegas
RPG Factors:

* Story: 5
* Character: 4.5
* NPC-Interaction: 5
* Gameworld: 4
* Manipulation: 4.5
* Combat: 2.5

RPG Score:= 4.25 => CRPG heavy

Other Factors:

* Graphics: 3 (2010)
* Sound: 4
* Length: 3(4)
* Difficulty: 4
* Perspective: SHOULDER or FP
* Style: SP-P


Bottom line:
A very good game for Fallout fans. Science Fiction/Apocalypse setting, many choices and consequences, much humor. Combat is weak - (Not a real shooter, not a real crpg combat system). Interesting NPCs and party members, nice crafting system.
The story has many surprises and branches, quests can influence other quests. Party interaction exists, but don't expect deep discussions. As a nice bonus there are a lot of references to Fallout 1 & 2 in the game (even a NPC!).

This game is not suitable for casual players. There are many choices to be made, not much handholding (except questmarkers), free gameworld and only short hints in the questbook.

PS:
The game features some adult themes - you should be over 16 to play this one.

[JDR13]

Excellent breakdown HiddenX, thank you. :thumbsup:

[Maylander]

I agree with the breakdown, this is as RPG heavy as we can expect nowadays.

[tolknaz]

A good breakdown, although i feel that some ratings are unjust and/or not explained clearly enough. For example rating graphics based solely on the engine used is just silly. Sure, gamebryo has it's weak spots, but the statement that New Vegas uses Oblivion engine holds as much truth as saying that Half Life 2 uses Quake engine or that Batman: Arkham Asylum has the same engine as Unreal 1.

[crpgnut]

As someone who has tried a variety of characters up to level 10 or so, I'm finding a ton of skill choices in conversations. You'll not even see the option unless your skill is of a certain level though. Say my intelligence is 4 and there is a conversation option for someone with an 8 intelligence. The 4 intelligence person won't even know there is an option, and a person with 6 intelligence will see it and might be able to temporarily boost his INT to pass the test. Also, it's kinda fun to just save your game right before the "Vigorater" in Doc Mitchell's house. Choose to max a skill to 10 and keep the rest normal, then drop a skill to 1 and keep the rest normal. He has different conversations with you and some are pretty funny.

[huggster]

This game really reminds me of the first two games. Even the vault I just visited and the way the exploration was handled. Plus it was very tough (and I thought the game was getting easy!).
Am having so much fun. Lots of tough decisions I am putting off!

[JemyM]

I agree with the breakdown, this is as RPG heavy as we can expect nowadays.

It's heavier than I expect these days.

[JemyM]

Enginewise games optimized for 360 looks like crap. At least faces have a lot more variation now.

Love that rolling bush/plant/thingie/dunnowhattheyarecalled. The desert landscape works for me.

[Thrasher]

Excellent breakdown HiddenX, thank you. :thumbsup:

Yes, ditto! Thanks Hiddenx!

I think I am sliding into the buy zone. ;)

[booboo]

I haven't met any companions except ED-E (who I'm travelling with) and there was some gun-for-hire type. (I didn't have the credits). ED-E's pretty useless in a fight - and often goes darting off to attack creatures even though her/its attack mode is set to passive.

I have also encountered my first serious bug, which means I can't complete a quest (in the Vega Strip, White gloves….a certain steam room. Google shows I'm not alone - but I tried the easier methods and then gave up). That same quest line was very badly conceived in my opinion: I spent 30 minutes trying to avoid a forced conflict with 2 armed characters I could not possibly beat (since all my weapons had been confiscated, and I only had my hands - and no skills in unarmed). ED-E did not react to me (or it) being attacked and just sat there while they beat the crap out of it - poor scripting if you ask me. When I tried to flee, they followed me everywhere - except outside - but when I reentered, there they were, waiting to pick up the chase. No one seemed to mind that that were trying to kill me, even the NCR who are supposedly my good friends now. With them in that state I couldn't properly continue that quest - they caused other guests to stampede like frightened gazelle (even though several guests were armed…). I found a way around that, but then encountered the steam room crash bug.

What's with the people not helping out? I'm maxed out on a faction, someone from another faction attacks, I reckon they should help me. to quote a song 'that's what friends are for', right? Not only do they not help, you, they flee! I had rad-scorpion attack me while I was otherwise occupied…the local NCR troopers high tailed it out of there. Not very neighbourly. "Yes, you're our saviour, but I'm afraid we're going to let the rad-scorpion have its way with you - toodles!"

Anyway, while this game has been largely enjoyable, it's starting to loose its appeal. Esp with fedex quests - of which I have encountered many. e.g. I have one to collect 100 pieces of "scrap"…not scrap (which is everywhere in teh bloody Mojave, but I can't be selected), but "scrap" i.e. officially sanctioned *clickable* scrap). Whyyyyyyyyyyy? Maybe I should just go back and blast a hole in him - he certainly deserves it

[DeepO]

I have also encountered my first serious bug, which means I can't complete a quest (in the Vega Strip, White gloves….a certain steam room. Google shows I'm not alone - but I tried the easier methods and then gave up). That same quest line was very badly conceived in my opinion: I spent 30 minutes trying to avoid a forced conflict with 2 armed characters I could not possibly beat (since all my weapons had been confiscated, and I only had my hands - and no skills in unarmed). ED-E did not react to me (or it) being attacked and just sat there while they beat the crap out of it - poor scripting if you ask me.
ED-E´s lasers have been confiscated too :).
That quest is one of the best in the game imo, but there´s way too many ways how player can proceed through it and apparently all weren´t tested properly enough, at least for the cases when player tries to use more of them simultaneously.
You should be able to get your hands on some weapons in there though, otherwise it can probably be too difficult if you aren´t good at unarmed, sneaking and have no companions who are good at unarmed.
Iirc, I´ve found some clues in one of the hotel rooms, afterwards got attacked by two white masks with canes, those were easily dispatched with low unarmed (though I did have a companion), I got the cane from them and with it the other (in my case two) encounters were easy enough. Wearing the white glove outfit might help in some places.

[HiddenX]

@Tolknaz

I did not think about the "Other"- Factors so much - they are not included in the RPG-Score.

[DeepO]

And, yeah, great breakdown HiddenX!
I think I agree with pretty much all of your evaluations.

RPG Score:= 4.25 => CRPG heavy
YES!

[crpgnut]

I haven't been to Vegas much, but do they confiscate everything or only weapons? If they don't take your radio and you're friends with NCR, try calling for help on the walkie talkie that they give you for being a friend of the NCR.

[skavenhorde]

I haven't been to Vegas much, but do they confiscate everything or only weapons? If they don't take your radio and you're friends with NCR, try calling for help on the walkie talkie that they give you for being a friend of the NCR.

When you go into the casinos they do. You can try to keep a tiny weapon. On the strip you are allowed to carry your weapons.

I have no idea if you could call for help inside a casino.

[Starwars]

I'm also not entirely sure how much it lets you keep, but there are Sneak options for some of the casinos (possibly all of them?) that lets you hide more weapons.

It seems to differ a bit between casinos though. In the ultra-luxe, I could not keep any weapons (I did not have high sneak) where in another casino I could keep my "holdout weapons". I put this down to the ultra-luxe being more serious about their policies and thus searching you more carefully.

That quest was a favorite of mine as well even though I also got beat to death by those two guards the first time around. I thought the holdout weapons were just a gimmick for people who wanted to start trouble in the casinos. That was foolish of me. :p

[wolfgrimdark]

Just throwing in my support. I am not up to 61 hours played, first character, and have only skirted New Vegas so far (meaning I am doing some caravan and freeside quests but have yet to enter the strip and continue the main quest line).

Totally adore this game and the role playing it allows. It has quickly become one of my all time favorite games because of its flexibility, story, and great atmosphere.

I should point out it is all fairly new to me not having played previous games (except most of F1 which was so long ago I had forgotten 90% of it). I am ordering F3 though but doubt I will go back any further than that.

I would like to see more companion depth - by that I mean a bit more quest lines, more talking and maybe a deeper friendship (romances are nice but hardly needed - I just would like to see more interaction), etc. I was a little spoiled by DAO in that regard. But this isn't a complaint, just something I would like more of it.

I am finding tons of fun and interesting quests and a lot of gray decisions to make. Overall a very enjoyable game!

[holeraw]

I've been playing this for the last couple of days and I must say I'm not that impressed yet. It's ok I guess… I think I'm enjoying it somewhat less than I did FO3 so far (except from the writing of course - though honestly, having better writing than FO3 is hardly an achievement) - it just seems to me that they are both action games at heart only with some dialog and some story-based choices - for example I haven't felt at any point that tagging speech gives me any kind of 'advantage'… I mostly run around shooting a lot of things, and I feel that FO3 did the whole running-around-shooting-things thing marginally better.

[crpgnut]

Wow! Speech is probably one of the most important skills of the game. I can't count the number of times that speech has saved me some caps, got me some extra loot, saved me from whipping out a weapon, etc. I've used speech in many, many conversations. Understand that you have to have a high speech value to even see it listed as an option. I'm thinking 30-40 for early game is okay, but it'll need to be in the 70s or higher by the time you reach Vegas. This game rewards specialization big time. I cry when other skills aren't up to snuff, but giggle madly when something requires high speech, lockpicking, repair or science :)

There are tons of areas where combat isn't needed at all. Even enemy areas can be combat free with speech and faction attire. You'll need to avoid guards sometimes, but not normally.

Here's an interesting quote from a Qt3er:

11-06-2010, 05:36 PM #3081
Naeblis
Der Schulde
Social Worker


Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,983 Amusing statistic: i passed more speech checks than humans killed in my game. 169 vs 162.

[DeepO]

Someone posted this on NeoGAF:
http://i52.tinypic.com/inh6dc.jpg

[HiddenX]

Someone posted this on NeoGAF:
http://i52.tinypic.com/inh6dc.jpg


Maybe Boone did all the hard combat work ?

[crpgnut]

Yeah, I'm not sure if this is much bragging rights if Boone can kill and it doesn't count to your totals. It'd be fairly easy to raise sneak to 100 and then just let Boone and Ed-E kill everything. If you know where to go, you could upgrade Ed-e pretty quickly, so that he doesn't miss constantly in combat. I've dropped Boone once I hit mid levels because the game isn't challenging with him in the party on a non-hardcore game. I still need to do his quest I guess, but I really don't know where it starts. I've done the hooded-one's personal quest and am working on the whiskey drinker's quests now and I haven't found anyone else yet.

I don't feel very motivated to help the reclusive guy in NV, though I'll have to at some point I guess. I'm going to put off chasing the suited one for as long as possible though. I really like how the NCR feels kinda hopeless yet most everyone else looks up to/or fears the NCR. I've logged 120 hours in the game, maybe 60 hours with this character and the rest spread out over several other characters and I'm still having a lot of fun. I'm using a 1.5 slowdown mod and I'm level 15 on the 60 hour dude.

[DeepO]

Maybe Boone did all the hard combat work ?

Maybe. I thought companions´ kills count toward the player kill count, but I´ve checked it in-game and they don´t.

But it should be possible without ever using companions´ help anyway.
Just have right skills developed (sneak, barter, speech, science, etc), boost xp gain with 3 ranks in Swift Learner and do all quests well rested. To maximize check success further, there´s Comprehension and Educated.
Animal Friend and Robotics Expert should help as well.

I don´t remember really being forced to kill anyone during the main quest, at least in the path I´ve taken. Few side quests most likely aren´t completable
without player´s or companions´ killing/hurting, the Quarry one comes to mind.

Anyway, extremes and technicalities aside, the game offers a good support for roleplaying a more pacifist character and that´s where speech and some other non-combat skills become especially important.

[Elwro]

I'm wondering how high should your skill x be for you to even see a dialogue option available for characters with x = n. Initially I thought it was n-25, but then I discovered one option with "Survival [15/60]" which would mean that some options can appear even though the difference is as big as 45 points...

Also, is Charisma good for anything apart from boosting companion stats? Would a guy with CHA 1 and Speech 100 also get the possibility to pass all the checks available to someone with CHA 7?

[HiddenX]

Anyway, extremes and technicalities aside, the game offers a good support for roleplaying a more pacifist character and that´s where speech and some other non-combat skills become especially important.

Yes - I like it when all skills, stats & traits are useful/have an effect in a game.

But like Maylander said, it's no fun to use a min-max-strategy and dump one skill to maximize another -> the game gets out of balance.

Fallout New Vegas is not for powergaming, it is made for roleplaying.

[Lemonhead]

The steam version of FNV was updated today. See the change log here: http://store.steampowered.com/news/?headlines=0&feed=steam_updates&appids=22380&appgroupname=Fallout:%20New%20Vegas

[crpgnut]

Just another thought on leveling mods. I downloaded a 1.5 mod and have been running it for most of this game. I just hit level 19 last night and I still haven't dealt with the guy who shot me in the head. I've not even met my benefactor from the Vegas area. I've done a TON of stuff in the game but I bet I'm still missing up to a 1/3 of map. If someone is a completist, I could see going to a 2.0 slowdown mod right at the beginning so you don't level too quickly.

[DPB]

I decided to use the original harder leveling (http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34836) mod, which is the equivalent of 1.33x, and the progression seemed about right. I explored almost everywhere and completed every quest I could find (excluding ones for the Legion) and I hit the level cap just before the final few quests. That said, I always opted for a diplomatic approach and took the Animal Friend perk as soon as possible (I didn't have to kill one single nightstalker, mole rat or bighorner), so I imagine if you went out of your way to kill things you might end up leveling a bit quicker.

I reckon either this mod or a 1.5x one is ideal, the default is too fast and any higher than 1.5x you'd probably have to return to creature respawn points if you wanted to achieve the maximum level.

[DeepO]

Just another thought on leveling mods. I downloaded a 1.5 mod and have been running it for most of this game. I just hit level 19 last night and I still haven't dealt with the guy who shot me in the head. I've not even met my benefactor from the Vegas area. I've done a TON of stuff in the game but I bet I'm still missing up to a 1/3 of map. If someone is a completist, I could see going to a 2.0 slowdown mod right at the beginning so you don't level too quickly.

Keep in mind that with 1.5x, at level 20 you´ll have around 45000 experience points gained, but to reach level 30, you´ll need another 55000 to gain.
Imo, there simply isn´t much more experience to gain in the game unless you grind respawns quite a lot.
Grinding aside, 2x slowdown is imo more suited for players who plan to play the game thoroughly, but actually don´t want to reach max level, at least not without sacrificing 3 perk choices on Swift Learner, and use the slowdown more as a means to make the game more challenging when it comes to skill gain/ skill checks (to a lesser extent this applies to 1.5x as well of course).
Everything over 2x is definitely overkill.

[BillSeurer]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2435-Fallout-New-Vegas

Yahtzee reviewed FO3:NV this week.

[Kostaz]

I'm almost level 17 and I haven't even done anything for the two main factions. I can certainly see why some were disappointed with the engine, the Strip is less crowded than the new Reno streets, the casinos are fairly empty as well. The writing is top notch and better than anything I've played since the Witcher.

[crpgnut]

Keep in mind that with 1.5x, at level 20 you´ll have around 45000 experience points gained, but to reach level 30, you´ll need another 55000 to gain.
Imo, there simply isn´t much more experience to gain in the game unless you grind respawns quite a lot.
Grinding aside, 2x slowdown is imo more suited for players who plan to play the game thoroughly, but actually don´t want to reach max level, at least not without sacrificing 3 perk choices on Swift Learner, and use the slowdown more as a means to make the game more challenging when it comes to skill gain/ skill checks (to a lesser extent this applies to 1.5x as well of course).
Everything over 2x is definitely overkill.

Ah, you made a great point. I don't care about reaching level 30 ever. I just think that I'm overpowered already for most areas of the game. I can certainly be killed by supermutant masters and Deathclaws, but 90% of the game is against other humans who have less than zero chances of killing me. There are a few types of human enemies that are very tough, but the challenge level is completely gone except for in those rare areas. Please note that I'm playing on normal level and I have a solution at hand. I need to remember to bump the difficulty up. I'm sure fiends will be quite a bit tougher on hard or very hard.

I'm thinking if someone mastered speech at the lowest possible level, and knew the game well enough to remember where to go, you could probably reach level 20 very quickly without owning a weapon. You'd probably need a very high sneak skill too though, to get past some encounters.

[Kostaz]

Bumping the difficulty is definitely the way to go, the game is still nowhere as hard as the original Fallouts were but it's quite challenging even against humans.

[akarthis]

I like the teasers to fallout 1&2 a lot. Nostalgia.... If i was a part of the creative team, i would surely put some car keys for the hero to find. It would drive me crazy to look for a car that i would never find. Twisted

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Reminds me of a certain chainsaw in LucasArts adventures. ;)

[crpgnut]

Very Mild Spoilers:



I ran into a big snag towards the end of the game. I really don't have a preference for who wins between House and the NCR. I guess I'll just go kill every Legion soldier in the game world and then not finish the game. I'm not doing the dirty work for either one of them. The other choice(s) don't appeal to me.

I always want the "good" ending. Games that don't have an optimal ending, I rarely end up finishing. My ending would force all of the various entities to band together to defeat the Legion. So many resources would be expended in that undertaking that nobody would be strong enough to control the region alone. This would force the creation of a multi-party system, each with an equal vote. That body would then become the new government.

To be honest, I'd kill every leader in the gameworld for a clean freak. 200 years after the bombs and nobody has bothered to clean up the debris? Unfathomable. I want rubble clearing robots and cleansweepers. You can only vote if your area is Spic and Span :)

[Maylander]

The "good" ending:
Talk to the robot Yes Man (locked away in Benny's room at the Tops) and become the ruler of Las Vegas yourself by doing his quests.

[crpgnut]

The "good" ending:
Talk to the robot Yes Man (locked away in Benny's room at the Tops) and become the ruler of Las Vegas yourself by doing his quests.

I've met him. The problem is that he becomes somewhat self aware if you do this and I'd rather not trust him. Do you know if you can use the robots, yet not allow them to take over after the upgrade? I didn't play through that ending because I wasn't sure where it was headed. My goal would be to keep all factions weak enough so that no one group is in power. If I had to pick a group to be in charge it would be the Followers of the Apocalypse. That didn't appear to be an option.

[BillSeurer]

Bumping the difficulty is definitely the way to go, the game is still nowhere as hard as the original Fallouts were but it's quite challenging even against humans.

The original Fallouts were not hard once you got certain equipment. Especially Fallout 2. Heck, even at the beginning I could play Fallout 2 for many hours without reloading as I found out one time when I made a mistake and realized I hadn't saved for something like 5 hours since the very start in Arroyo.

As for FO:NV I am not seeing the supposed godliness of a certain companion. If I was playing hardcore he would have died a dozen times over by now.

[crpgnut]

Yep, they're a great killer at range, but not so much in the melee. They need to fix it so that companions obey the "do not enter combat until I'm engaged" command. This running off while I'm sneaking gets old. I never take the Primm companion because of this. I generally take Novac and Freeside, though I sometimes take Outpost and I-88 for the type-3 benefits :D

[booboo]

well, done and dusted - I enjoyed it for the most part. I enjoyed the attention lavished on populating the land, and the many interesting characters - like Lilly. I went the 'neutral' route - which I always find a bit more challenging, because you piss everyone off (did the same with Gothic 3 ;-) Perks and skills were pretty similar (the same?) as F3 and the game really didn't feel terribly different, but there was enough to keep me engaged. On the downside…game is very buggy. Look at the wiki for FO:NV…and I ran into quite a few: still some quests I couldn't complete because it would cause a crash, lost companion weapons due to 'casino confiscation'….as I discovered later :-/ and so on. I also played on hard which was generally not, and did not take the Great Boone who seems to be the death dealing companion of choice. The only fight I could not win was the last boss fight…I tried 6 or 7 times and I just couldn't' do enough damage against 7 or 8 (strong) fighters + Baddy… there was no way my build, with my equipment could work. I hate that. I was a fast talking (75-80 speech) scientist type (90 science) with some skill in guns (75) and energy weapons (70). My companions got wasted very quickly and I kept on getting knocked down. My 'smarts' didn't' count for shit when the Baddy showed up. I tried switching to 'easy' - made no difference. So I cheated. yay. Even in god mode it took 4-5 minutes (!) to kill them all. That's just sick. And worst of all

I had a BLOODY ARMY OF ROBOTS WAITING OUTSIDE THE BLOODY DOOR…WHY DIDN"T THEY HELP!?

[HiddenX]

I didn't fight the last battle at all, because I'm a SmOoTh TaLkEr …

[crpgnut]

I haven't tried Deathclaws in several levels. I should take my guy and go do the claws and super mutant areas. I'm guessing it'll still be tough, even with my special sniper rifle and Boone. I love the unique varmint rifle but the unique sniper rifle is starting to become my weapon of choice at these higher levels. I've got a low level character that went and got the UVR mentioned above at level 2. There are a couple items in the beginning area that allowed me to sneak and avoid all the creatures in that dungeon. It's a hoot to use at NCRCF :D

[Ashbery76]

I think this is the best RPG I have played for the long,long time.The huge amount of real choices and replayability is fanstastic.

[Maylander]

@crpgnut
No, I think there are only four main quest endings.

@booboo
With 100 Speech, you can talk your way out of that fight (so there is no final fight at all). If not, remember to use the space to constantly get out of range and so on. You can use the entire arena below.

[crpgnut]

I've never taken turbo, does it boost your speed temporarily? If so, that might be a good way to outmaneuver the opposition. Drug up and fight :) It seems to be a great time to use Jet, Steady, etc.

[BillSeurer]

I ran into some deathclaws last night for the first time (3 at once!) and they were trivial. The worst thing in the wasteland are those damn flies. Two or more is almost always a TPK (~ 15th level, me, Boone, and Ed-E).

[BlackHarmo]

Here's two of my biggest bones of contention with this otherwise really great RPG :

Enemies' A.I. is really not that great, but it reveals its weakness as soon as your character is good enough in Sneak and you fire with a silenced weapon. Even if you blow out the head of a sentry while his/her pal(s) stand barely 2 meters from your target, they just stay there, or walk iddly around as if nothing happened. They didn't see you, they didn't heard the shot, hence their buddy's exploding head doesn't disturb them it seems. I could decimate 12 guys, one headshot at a time, in a small 100 feet square cavern from one of the only two exit/entry tunnels, and they stupidly stand iddly, not even trying to take cover when the blood and organs went flying.

Second problem. The whole ammo pseudo "economy" and crafting system. Apart from one particular type of ammo for one of my heaviest caliber weapons, I finished the game without having to craft _any_ powder ammo. And as for energy weapons, I found and bought so many cells that I simply recrafter over/max charges ones. I never used any "standard" E/C Cells in the whole campaign...

With all the stuff I found and sold I simply bought what I needed just in case I'd go in some hot firefight. There's no incentive to craft ammo imo, but at least the Repair skill is quite useful for weapons and armor, or crafting weapons repair kits. You just found too much stuff in this game. I had enough caps to buy almost all the attributes Implants, along with the more expensive special ones (I won't spoil).

Otherwise, great game, but I do think that developers really overlook something important and presumably not that hard to correct, regarding those points.

[crpgnut]

The problem for Obsidian and any sandboxer is how to balance the differing playstyles. Say 15% are completists, 60% do some sidequests/exploring and another 15% just play through the main quest. How do you balance the economy for those 3 different playstyles? I'd like to see in addition to a difficulty choice, a choice about what type of player you are. The game balance would change drastically between completists and the casual main quest player. A casual player will not have the 54,000 caps necessary to buy all the implants. In fact, it's very unlikely that they'll even find the location(s) necessary to purchase them. The completist will have zero trouble coming up with the money. I had over 40 10mm machine guns, each selling for 2400 gp to somebody who idolizes me. I could sell one every 4 days to Jonathan Nash and get 96,000 caps.

If I purposely stay main quest focused, I have a hard time reaching the 2,000 caps necessary to enter the Strip. It takes a mild amount of questing in the New Vegas area itself to finally get there. If you want a more challenging game, try playing JUST the main quest with no sidequests. The game is much tougher playing it that way and money and ammo are a lot harder to come by. Skipping the NCRCF as a fighting zone makes a 6,000 cap difference for me.

[Thrasher]

Excellent points, crpgnut!

[DeepO]

Good points indeed.

Except I quite strongly don´t share this wish:
I'd like to see in addition to a difficulty choice, a choice about what type of player you are. The game balance would change drastically between completists and the casual main quest player.

For me, the ideal open ended game takes absolutely no prisoners when it comes to difficulty of its main quests, doesn´t scale to player´s level at all and finishing it without going through some of game´s non main quest content is pretty much mandatory if player wants to succeed, at least on higher difficulties (I quite dislike difficulty levels as well, or at least how they´re usually implemented, but that´s necessary evil).
This is of course more difficult to balance well as on one hand player shouldn´t be forced to suck the game dry entirely before being able to take on finishing the main quest and on the other hand difficulty of main quest shouldn´t become a joke for a player who does so.
Some of the better ways to control this are to tie some of game´s optional content to pc´s class/skillset and make some quests mutually exclusive (opposing factions and such).
Still, player who takes his time with optional content should have easier time with the main quest, no doubt.
Ideally, the main quest should be finishable without going through any optional content, but only for a player who plays his cards extremely right and utilizes game´s mechanics to the maximum potential.

As for New Vegas, I´m not 100% sure, but I think the main quest does scale to player´s level to some extent via controlling opponents´ hit points and damage potential. It definitely does so in side quests. Enemies which aren´t tied to some quest don´t scale I think. I was cleaning the quarry at level 29 and by that time deathclaws there were definitely stronger than the ones found in the cave that is full of them, which I´ve visited right afterwards.
I certainly consider it a good thing that despite the above mentioned scaling, going through NV´s main quest only is still more difficult, mainly because player is "underitemized" and skill/stat checks don´t scale.
All things considered, I think Obsidian did a solid job balancing the game overall, though there are some spikes, like energy weapons being too weak (well, except for alien blaster, eh), some companions being too effective, etc.

[BillSeurer]

There are a lot of quests that you can get that don't end up as being listed in the quests. This is REALLY annoying. I was running around an area looking for something and I ended up with a bunch of these. After finishing whatever I was doing I thought I'd go back to them but it being a few real days later and there being nothing listed in the quest log, well, GAH! >:( Sometimes they show up as a Note instead but why, why, why not just list them as a quest like everything else?

[Maylander]

Good points indeed.
As for New Vegas, I´m not 100% sure, but I think the main quest does scale to player´s level to some extent via controlling opponents´ hit points and damage potential. It definitely does so in side quests. Enemies which aren´t tied to some quest don´t scale I think. I was cleaning the quarry at level 29 and by that time deathclaws there were definitely stronger than the ones found in the cave that is full of them, which I´ve visited right afterwards.
I certainly consider it a good thing that despite the above mentioned scaling, going through NV´s main quest only is still more difficult, mainly because player is "underitemized" and skill/stat checks don´t scale.
All things considered, I think Obsidian did a solid job balancing the game overall, though there are some spikes, like energy weapons being too weak (well, except for alien blaster, eh), some companions being too effective, etc.

As far as I know, monster hitpoints/damage is fixed (except Companions; they level up), but monster type will change based on your level (to a certain extent). As an example: Black Mountain will feature Super Mutant Brutes if you are low level and Masters if you are high. In certain high level areas they seem fixed though.

[holeraw]

I've been playing this for the last couple of days and I must say I'm not that impressed yet. It's ok I guess… I think I'm enjoying it somewhat less than I did FO3 so far (except from the writing of course - though honestly, having better writing than FO3 is hardly an achievement) - it just seems to me that they are both action games at heart only with some dialog and some story-based choices - for example I haven't felt at any point that tagging speech gives me any kind of 'advantage'… I mostly run around shooting a lot of things, and I feel that FO3 did the whole running-around-shooting-things thing marginally better.
I changed my mind... non-fighting skills are really useful and New Vegas is now awesome! :D

There are a lot of quests that you can get that don't end up as being listed in the quests. This is REALLY annoying.
I think the biggest problem is that horrible pipboy interface that this game inherited from FO3 in which everything is cluttered and unorganized.

[JDR13]

I have no problems with the pipboy interface. I like the fact that it's not really similar to anything else that's out there.

I also like the fact that not every insignificant quest is listed.

[holeraw]

I have no problems with the pipboy interface. I like the fact that it's not really similar to anything else that's out there.

When speaking about an interface that's a bad thing - unless you're talking only about looks.

I also like the fact that not every insignificant quest is listed.
My problem isn't that some quests go to notes (I'm assuming that's because they didn't want a compass on them) I'm bothered that I can't organize these notes in some way.

I remember reading a complain somewhere that these new interfaces by Bethesda are the only ones in pc RPGs where in order to bring the inventory up you need to click 2 or 3 times instead of just hitting 'i'.

It's just an interface that serves consoles but on pc it's just too bulky and counterintuitive... I find it a real shame that it comes from Bethesda because I actually consider Morrowind's interface one of the most comfortable and usable I've ever seen in such a complicated game.

[JDR13]

When speaking about an interface that's a bad thing - unless you're talking only about looks.

Why? Do you want every interface you use to be the same? I dont.



My problem isn't that some quests go to notes (I'm assuming that's because they didn't want a compass on them) I'm bothered that I can't organize these notes in some way.

Never thought about the compass, I just assumed they didn't feel the need to make every little thing you could do into an official quest. I understand what you mean about the notes though. I guess it would be nice if you could at least shuffle them around into a certain order.

[DArtagnan]

The default interface is pretty bad - but an overall minor inconvenience, I think.

I think the fact that you can't hotkey any of the submenus is the biggest issue.

I've bound F1-F3 to my mouse (Razer Naga) - in a comfortable layout, so it's pretty non-intrusive.

The quest thing, I think is just fine. I actually REALLY like having to investigate certain things before knowing what to do. I want much more of that, honestly.

[holeraw]

Why? Do you want every interface you use to be the same? I dont.
I want every interface to function in the most familiar, usable and least distracting way, (though it can certainly be aesthetically different) which may naturally be similar to others, because if something works it works.

It's for the same reason every 'proper' program uses a 'file - edit - ... - window - help' bar (until microsoft dropped it because... )


The default interface is pretty bad - but an overall minor inconvenience, I think.
Interface is for me a major issue always: games are computer programs too... and they have to be usable as much as any other program.
Interfaces that are based on metaphors are fine and 'immersive' and all, but my favorite ones are the ones that are usable.

[JDR13]

I want every interface to function in the most familiar, usable and least distracting way, (though it can certainly be aesthetically different) which may naturally be similar to others, because if something works it works.

That's completely understandable, although I personally didn't find FO3's interface to be unusable or distracting.

[DArtagnan]

Interface is for me a major issue always: games are computer programs too… and they have to be usable as much as any other program.
Interfaces that are based on metaphors are fine and 'immersive' and all, but my favorite ones are the ones that are usable.

Metaphors?

The pipboy isn't a metaphor ;)

Anyway, I think the FO3/NV interface is, overall, functional - but it DOES have a few really annoying aspects. It takes too many clicks to get to where you want to go, and it doesn't provide enough feedback for certain details.

I can partially solve the first problem, by binding the function keys to my mouse buttons - but I need a mod for the last problem.

It never gets really comfortable, because it was designed with a console controller in mind, and they didn't bother doing anything to utilise the PC keyboard.

I think that's pretty stupid, but as I said, I find it an overall functional interface and doesn't annoy me during the most important parts of the game, which would be the action parts. Nothing worse than not being able to perform adequately under pressure, and thankfully that's not an issue.

So, it's more a matter of simple convenience, and having to access a "top-menu" before getting access to a "sub-menu" is downright retarded interface design. The font size for things like skills/inventory is way too large, and I would have preferred a main screen for ALL character related info, like stats/special etc. - so again, retarded interface design.

But, we can't expect too much from commercial interests - and Beth is the original design team. Obsidian can't do interfaces for shit - so let's be thankful they didn't try changing anything.

Still, I've seen much, much, MUCH worse than this ;)

[BillSeurer]

Annoying thing:

I am walking along and come across a Hostile Faction location. A big battle ensues and I kill all the Hostile Faction members **gaining karma** with each kill. I loot the bodies and head into camp and...

...wth? It's stealing to take the stuff in the camp. So it's good karma to blow their heads off and loot their still warm bodies but bad karma to pick up the scrap metal they left lying in their camp?

On the positive side I took the perk that lets you see all the locations just to see what was left because I seemed to be getting close to the end (maybe) and WHOA! I've only been to fewer than half the locations.

[crpgnut]

Yeah, they should definitely change it so that you're not considered stealing if the faction is hated or vilified. What I did was installed a mod that just makes stealing not give a karma hit at all. Still, it really doesn't make a difference one way or the other. The karma gains are very high per kill versus the karma losses for stealing. You'll end up with very good karma evein if you steal everything. Karma is basically useless compared to reputation.

[mute]

Annoying thing 2 (which become a showstopper for me right now). Kill faction member, put faction armor on, enter faction camp. Get shot at by faction guard. Talk to faction member (whilst engaged in shooting a faction guard - the game come to halt enter the dialouge). Finish killing the guard and enter building. Talk to faction member, finish quest.

Fast forward.

While dressed in faction armour, enter other faction dwelling, and get killed by a person to whom you where in very good reptutation with (And was very grateful for rescuing him before).

I know that i should not enter another faction camp with the wrong suit. But faction guard can see through me (according to manual i think) and still attack me if they recognize me as an enemy. However a person i talk to can not recognise me and therefore kill me.

I am having trouble with the lack of logic. Whish the faction thingie wasn't so stupid. :)

[JDR13]

The karma gains are very high per kill versus the karma losses for stealing. You'll end up with very good karma evein if you steal everything. Karma is basically useless compared to reputation.

Sounds like they didn't make any improvements regarding karma compared to FO3. I hated how it was nearly impossible to stay neutral if one wanted to.

[BlackHarmo]

You gain karma when you kill "definitely evil" foes. There's some raider/torturer/rapists ones that spawn regularly in 2 or 3 areas, even after you've officially decimated their faction by killing their leaders. So, that's always an option to boost up your karma if you really *had to* steal something from some other faction. Still, there's so much stuff to find in this game, that I never had to steal anything.

Granted, I am a completionist, but I'll start the game again trying to stick to the main quests just to see if my feeling about a too generous and unbalanced economy hold the water, as I think it does. We'll see, I may be wrong (end of slight disgression ;-) )

[curious]

Yeah, they should definitely change it so that you're not considered stealing if the faction is hated or vilified. What I did was installed a mod that just makes stealing not give a karma hit at all. Still, it really doesn't make a difference one way or the other. The karma gains are very high per kill versus the karma losses for stealing. You'll end up with very good karma evein if you steal everything. Karma is basically useless compared to reputation.

while karma has much less effect in this game than fallout 3 due to the great reputation system you are completely wrong in that stealing has no effect on karma. its true the karma for killing fiends is pretty high, not sure if its as high for powder gangers and or the legion, but even without killing any one 'good' i found myself quite easily going from very good to evil karma multiple towns/locations in the game where i had to "cleanse my soul" to get the karma back up if only so that Cass wouldn't give me the boot. in some locales items that are flagged as stealable will actually become aquirable later on in some instaces either by completing certain quests or by gaining faction rep, usually the prior i believe. also there are so many items in the game world that at least having some consequence for getting them makes the choices in gameplay meaningful at least to me. most of new vegas is NOT abandoned buildings and shacks like it was in fallout 3 so there our obviously more "owned" items which you could look at as either a part of an indiviual, faction, or town. if you are looking for items that you can steal that don't affect your karma, all hulls and casings can be stolen from an NPC caring them which respawn and can be helpful to pennypinching ammo hogs.

[curious]

Sounds like they didn't make any improvements regarding karma compared to FO3. I hated how it was nearly impossible to stay neutral if one wanted to.

the improvements to karma is that its a bad system for a game which is why reputation works so well. all of those people who like the unrealistic "chaotic good" characters should appreciate it as you can be fairly wild in your gameplay in New Vegas as long as you are more or less solving peoples problems (often varying degrees of "help") which would net you "good" repuation even if your karma fluxes up and down. to me that's a fair system that warrants problem (quest) solving rather than doing the "right" thing. for instance although it can take a lot to raise your rep with some factions killing members of that faction can drop your rep with them like a mofo regardless of what is going on with your karma. there's so much grey in new vegas that karma is the least and hardest to gauge element for the most part. disguises too can play an intergral part in the game which is a damn welcome change from most games and in some ways more fitting to the gameworld than someother way doing "takebacks" with a faction to get them on your good side.

[curious]

just finished playthough number 2 and didn't find the House ending nearly as satisfying as the NCR one. Did finish some of the companions quest though that i missed in the first one like Boone and Arcade. Definately left the indepence one to motivate another finishing playthough but I'm still wary about going the Caesar route.

[crpgnut]

How many hours do you have logged, Curious? I just passed 200 hours last night/this morning but I've not finished a single character. I almost always like low-level characters best, so I'm terrible about starting over. I tell myself that I'll finish it this time. We'll see. I think this guy is level 10 or so and I'm still having a great time. Unlike a certain lazy vegetable, if I make a claim, I post proof :D

[curious]

the first playthrough was somewhere in the range of 100-120 while the 2nd took a bit less at around 90-100 which I finished last night. My hours show quite a bit higher on steam though as I usually leave it on even when I'm asleep or go out, though not when I'm at work. The save time is a bit more reliable I suppose. I'm only doing 1 character at a time, just started my 3rd tonight, this time I'm going to build up explosives, unlike last time which was energy/plama build who sided with house. While the world is bigger, with actual locations smaller than Fallout 3, this game offers a lot more meaningful replayabilty than fallout 3 which although I had many a replay were all about the same just in a different order.

[crpgnut]

Hmmm, since I generally make a savegame with the console, I have no idea how many hours it shows in game. I could save with each character's last save and add it up. I wonder how much of this time is fluff time. I generally don't leave steam up if I'm not playing New Vegas, but I do pause the game and go eat, etc. Nobody cares anyway :D

I've actually used the Jacobstown npc for the first time with this character. I'm really liking the voice acting/lines on that character. Some pretty funny stuff. "Jimmy! Is that you Jimmy? Come and give your spoiler a hug." Love it!

[Greymane]

Well, I have finished the game with one of my characters.
A couple things I'm not fond of: game ends.. you're done, exit game interface.
All choices are gray: Don't worry about who you decide to help, makes no difference to the 'world'.
I enjoy playing the game, but because all the important choices are 'gray' I feel no accomplishment, it's just something to do. I'd much rather have a good side, bad side like FO3.

[HiddenX]

Good review (http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=57162) by Vault Dweller over at NMA.

[DeepO]

All choices are gray: Don't worry about who you decide to help, makes no difference to the 'world'.
That´s nonsense. They make a lot of difference.

[Ashbery76]

That´s nonsense. They make a lot of difference.

Indeed I do not know what the guy is talking about.

[holeraw]

He's probably annoyed that the game doesn't make you feel like a Hero... (which never bothered me but is certainly considered a huge advantage lately)

---
BTW

Is it me or do dialogs are sometimes a bit messed up? I keep having the feeling that I keep getting more information than I should... a few times I seem to be rushing quests without realizing it and I end up not knowing what's going on, what I need to do and why.

[crpgnut]

I finally finished a game at 250 Steam hours. This is about 22 hours more than real hours invested in the game. I just like restarting. If you do nearly everything in one playthrough, the game will take anywhere from 80 hours on up. I like screwing around, so my game took about 103 hours and I still missed a handful of possible quests.

[Greymane]

That´s nonsense. They make a lot of difference.

Game over Dude! Whatever you picked is what you picked, we don't see how your choices affected the common man left to live with who you decided to push to the top. You might have personal feelings about your choices, but consequences aren't really shown in my opinion.
Unless you're just referring to making choices determines who shoots you on sight and who doesn't. Such heavy thought there, let me see, if I kill all of them, will they still love me?

[Ashbery76]

Game over Dude! Whatever you picked is what you picked, we don't see how your choices affected the common man left to live with who you decided to push to the top. You might have personal feelings about your choices, but consequences aren't really shown in my opinion.
Unless you're just referring to making choices determines who shoots you on sight and who doesn't. Such heavy thought there, let me see, if I kill all of them, will they still love me?

Did you actually play the same game or is this a ME2 thread mix up.The very first quests in Goodsprings effects the gameworld clown.

[DeepO]

Game over Dude! Whatever you picked is what you picked, we don't see how your choices affected the common man left to live with who you decided to push to the top. You might have personal feelings about your choices, but consequences aren't really shown in my opinion.
Ending slides is pretty much the only valid way to show most of major consequences of your actions, especially ones addressing the main quest. A lot of changes you caused just aren´t likely to happen overnight.

And, even though there may have been few mismatches, F:NV has the best implementation of ending slides I´ve seen. They address a lot, are usually determined by more than one of your actions and are very reactive in general. For example, Arcade has 11 possible endings, Followers have 6, Primm has 9 and so on, which one you get being dependent on what faction(s) you supported, what related quests you completed and how you completed them, etc.


Unless you're just referring to making choices determines who shoots you on sight and who doesn't. Such heavy thought there, let me see, if I kill all of them, will they still love me?

You´ll get different rewards, different quests and most importantly different experiences based on your actions.
For example, how you solve the discord in Brotherhood determines what quest you get next from them and, also depending on which major faction you´ve chosen to support, you get different options when dealing with them during the later stages of the game. Certain NPC in your party can make your initial visit rather different.
You´ll get different quests, encounters, prices and even different ways to solve some quests based on your reputation. Boone won´t join you if NCR dislikes you, etc.
You also get consequences for how you develop your character stat/skill-wise and and certainly not only in combat.
Etc.
And yes, there´s the shooting on sight thing too.
You can also kill anyone on sight and still finish the game, not sure if I´m entirely correct, but there´s only one unkillable NPC and that´s the one which can provide the ending for a "killed-everyone" char.

There are some problems with the implementations of C&C in F:NV though.
Sometimes the choices aren´t reflected appropriately/at all due to bugged quest logic here and there, karma system is implemented in a rather poor manner (but there are some quests you can only obtain if your karma is good/evil) and due to the settings the game´s two major factions aren´t represented equally, which may hurt Legion inclined characters. Joinable NPC who supports Legion would be nice to have too. These are still relatively minor issues nevertheless.

All in all, you have myriad of ways how to proceed through the game, the game rarely if ever dictates what you have to do without giving you choices and is very reactive to your actions, be it in-game or through the ending slides.

[Greymane]

Did you actually play the same game or is this a ME2 thread mix up.The very first quests in Goodsprings effects the gameworld clown.

Well, I'll try killing everyone in Goodsprings next go round and see if the 'end game' really changes things in a major way for the common man.

[BillSeurer]

I'm very near the end of the game and I have gotten beyond just annoyed at the bugs in various major quests. I have had to reload and replay several of them and abandon others because the scripting is just broken. This reminds me of early on in Fallout 2's release only Obsidian isn't releasing patches as quickly.

[crpgnut]

Bethesda is not one for pushing out tons of little fixes as they bugtest. They'll generally throw out a hotfix or two and then one major patch. Anything left over after their MP will be for the community to fix. That's just the way they are. I don't think they're going to change things now. I thought that Bethesda was in charge of patching for the game, not Obsidian.

[Thrasher]

Bill, that is disheartening. I'll definitely be putting NV on the backburner until they fix it.

[Starwars]

Obsidian are the ones patching the game, Bethesda are responsible for getting the patch out to consumers (I think they are also involved in the testing of the patch). The Bethsoft community manager posted today that all versions of the patch are still in the final phase, which it seems to have been for some time now. So I'm guessing that either Sony or Microsoft are slow in cooperating/validating/whatever they do (STEAM seems to get patches out quickly, no real delays with the incremental PC patch) or the patch is still in testing.

EDIT: Haven't had too many personal problems. I have the annoying re-load bug for some of the weapons and occasional crashes (which I've sadly enough come to accept as par for the course when it comes to Beth's version of the Gamebryo since Oblivion). But stuff like quest scripting and all that have been surprisingly (given how much there is to do) stable for me. I haven't run into any quests that have broken for me in any of my playthroughs.

[Thrasher]

How can your experience be so opposite from Bill's?

Are you guys playing the same version on the same platform?

[BillSeurer]

Here's one recent major broken quest for me that was broken in *two* ways.

At some point you may be asked by the commander of Hoover Dam to take care of the Khans who were siding with the Legion. I decided to see if there was a way to recruit them to NCR's side and indeed it turned out there was. When this kicks in you are told to report back to the commander about getting the Khans on NCR's side *but* everyone at NCR seems to think you wiped out the Khans at that point even though you haven't actually done a thing yet. The guys wandering around will say stuff like "I'm sure glad the Khans are out of the way" and if you actually go talk to the commander your only option will be to report that you wiped them out despite the quest log entry saying to talk to her about recruiting them.

Forging on anyway I decided to do the talk to the 3 people thing which is part of the recruit them quest. You have to convince 3 important Khans (well 2 and then a set of 2 others) to support NCR. I did two of them but the third required that I go to the Legion base across the river even though that was not accessible yet. The third one was especially annoying because I actually had the proof that he required to support NCR right in my inventory.

Reading the wiki it turned out I could force the finishing of the quest in another fashion which I did. Returning to the NCR commander still had the "I wiped the Khans out" option but also now had a "I recruited them to our side" option as well.

Sigh.

And then there is the disappearing/freezing companion problem. Ed-E has about a 50-50 chance of disappearing when I get in a large scale fight (indoors or out). If I use the console command to move to his location he is not visibly there which probably means he fell through the scenery or something. I know his reference ID by heart now. Veronica keeps getting into some state where she won't move or fight and just stands there. To fix this you have to go to an earlier quest location and re-do part of it which itself is broken because it refers to the status of things that no longer are true.

[Thrasher]

Ah, companion issues. That has ALWAYS been a PITA with Elder Scroll games...

[crpgnut]

I didn't have any of these issues either, Thrasher. I'm sorry Bill is having troubles. I've played through the game numerous times and I rarely, not never, get a quest script issue. I've had to replay a few quests, but I save at the start of each set, just to be safe. I can't condone how the female NCR agent wants to solve issues, so I went independent. NCR needs a different commander to seek other than the Hoover Dam lady. I'm sure Hsu would have been more reasonable.

[BillSeurer]

How can your experience be so opposite from Bill's?

Are you guys playing the same version on the same platform?

With a game like this the order you do things can goof stuff up if the scripting is not robust.

[BillSeurer]

I've played through the game numerous times and I rarely, not never, get a quest script issue. I've had to replay a few quests, but I save at the start of each set, just to be safe.

That is probably one way to solve things; stick to one "major" quest at a time (where possible). I play the game as things catch my interest so if I am in the middle of one quest and another more interesting thing comes along I will go do the new one.

[BillSeurer]

Well, I just finished. The final battle is INSANELY hard compared to anything else in the game. Overall quite good but WAAAY too buggy. I will set it aside for some months and see what shape it is in then.

As a final insult as I was in the middle of the push toward the end crossing the dam toward the Legion camp FNV crashed and Steam hung. I killed Steam and restarted it but Steam decided to update itself for some reason so I had to wait. Argh!

It was fun to see some of the groups I had recruited chip in. Some of the slideshow endings were kind of sad (sorry Rex!).

[Starwars]

I really liked that they included slides for the companions who have died in your travels. Great way to give them some final respect, hehe.

[Toff]

I haven't run into many bugs yet on the 360, just pathing bugs so far. Crashed twice so far in about 20 hours of play. Haven't made it to Vegas yet.

Its an ok game but I am already tired of all the grayness. Would some color be so bad?

The music is AWFUL! Not a big fan of the wild west theme either.

I'm playing on Hard difficulty and it seems about right. Turned off the eating/drinking mode as that was just annoying.

So far I like F3 better but do not miss the pointless vaults and subways.

I'm already looking forward to finishing it so I can trade it to someone for Fable 3.

I just don't feel like im in a post apocalyptic world at this stage of the game.

[BillSeurer]

... but I am already tired of all the grayness. Would some color be so bad?

It's post apocalypse, why do people expect happy colors? :S

[crpgnut]

Because they play games on a 360? :D I'm guessing because it's 200+ years after an apocalypse that it should be the same color as the real world. So if the sky is blue, then it should be a colorful day. I'd like color to be directly related to amount of sun. I'm going back to Fallout 3 now and it feels a little weird. I really would like an iron-sights type mod, but I haven't looked around too much yet. Downloaded the unofficial patch and a better pipboy light and that's all I have so far. I'll probably end up back in NV after a little while.

[JDR13]

The mod you want is RH_Ironsights (http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6938)

[crpgnut]

Cool, I 'll be sure to give it a look.

[Anderson]

It's post apocalypse, why do people expect happy colors? :S

How come they've got all this cool technology, but no one has invented paint?

I understand the aesthetic, but I get tired of looking at the same dull grey colors everywhere. Presumably humans of the future would be the same, and they would go a little out of their way to lighten up their depressing world with a little color.

I guess that would ruin the atmosphere the developers are going for, but I always found it a little alienating.

[BillSeurer]

All the "cool tech" is mostly leftover stuff from the war. When you are barely scraping by you DON'T paint stuff. Look at old log or sod cabins.

[Anderson]

Plenty of leftover guns, ammo, and all kinds of assorted items, but no leftover paint? I don't buy it. Plenty of time to stand/wander around aimlessly, but no time to slap a coat of paint on anything, anywhere ... ever? I don't buy that either. I think it's just their way of trying to create a desolate aesthetic, but it doesn't actually take human nature into account.

That's okay, I'm just poking fun, not really registering a serious complaint. But my eyes do get bored with the constant dull grey.

As for log cabins, painting back in those days was a heck of a lot harder than painting now. You had to create the paint from scratch, assuming you knew how and had the ingredients. You had to go out of your way to do it, and typically what got produced was in small amounts. In modern times (and presumably post-apocalyptic ones), you have pre-mixed paint sold in cans nearly everywhere.

I wouldn't want to paint a log cabin anyhow; you'd ruin the aesthetic, and it would look tacky. Log cabins aren't really in need of paint. They already look good. Painted metal would look tacky, too, but it's better than the same cold, dull, depressing shade everywhere you look.

[JDR13]

I think it's just their way of trying to create a desolate aesthetic, but it doesn't actually take human nature into account.


I'm pretty sure human nature in that environment would be all about ensuring survival, not painting things.

[Nerevarine]

I'm pretty sure human nature in that environment would be all about ensuring survival, not painting things.

Well put. This is my line of thinking when I hear complaints about Fallout 3/New Vegas being too "bland" in its color scheme. The default aesthetics fit the atmosphere perfectly for me because if I were in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, I would be far more concerned with survival than whether or not my house looked nice. Besides, having a nice house with a lot of pretty colors, a nice paint job, and decorations would probably make you a nice target for some raiders :)

[Anderson]

I'm pretty sure human nature in that environment would be all about ensuring survival, not painting things.

That's an easy quip, but it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding about people. Even under very harsh and primitive conditions, human beings have always been interested in more than mere survival. Check anthropological studies, or studies of peoples under extreme conditions. Even in very "primitive" cultures, you have an interest in beauty, art. It's part of what separates us from the animals. "Divinely superflous beauty," someone called it — an interest in something that is aesthetically appealing, not merely functional or practical.

If you look at people who are placed under extreme, threatening conditions (e.g., prisoners of war, concentration camps), you see the same thing. Sure, some are out only for mere survival. But in all such environments, you see a clear interest — or perhaps more accurately, a desperate thirst and longing — for things like beauty, art, love, and religion. These things serve as solace, as respite from the gloom, and as a reminder of what makes us human, of what makes life worth surviving in the first place.

Not to mention, the people in the world of Fallout are obviously not in imminent danger of losing their lives. They stand around all day doing nothing. So if you're really arguing that Fallout is presenting a realistic portrayal of people who are barely surviving, I have to wonder what game you're playing.

And this is a game — and as a game, I expect it to focus on the parts necessary to make it fun and functional (ammo, equipment, the stuff I need to build other stuff, etc.). But from an anthropological, sociological, or psychological perspective, it is a silly, superficial rendition. And that's okay; I'm not being critical; I think it is meant to be that way: the harsh environment contrasted with the silly 50's nostalgia. But let's please not delude ourselves that it is a realistic portrait of how human beings would act.

p.s. The only way Fallout gets this right is in the music stations. If everything is about mere survival, by the way, why the interest in listening to music? I know you'll say that all the time maintaining and operating the radio stations is in the interests of power and control, but whence the interest in listening to the music, in powering the radios that deliver it, and in the obvious enjoyment of the people with it? That doesn't make sense, from your perspective — it's all about mere survival, right? — but it makes complete sense from mine.

People have always been, and will always be, about more than mere survival. It's rather demeaning to yourself and everyone else, to think otherwise.

[BillSeurer]

In frontier towns people did not paint the buildings. I don't think they would be worrying about that in the world as portrayed in the Fallout games.

[Anderson]

I already covered that earlier; you're just repeating yourself. And as the discussion has moved away from playful joking to serious discussion, I hope it's clear that I'm not just talking about painting a building, but about any impulse toward beauty and art (broadly conceived). That could include painting a building, but it could also include playing music, crafting a small object with care, painting a small area of the interior space (e.g., a bookcase), planting flowers, crafting something artfully, creating music, telling a story, having a houseplant, using fabrics or clothing artfully, etc. The impulse toward beauty and art isn't limited to painting a building (but this point will probably not be listened to either, and we'll have another two-sentence rejoinder).


But I don't want to get too deep or serious here. At first I was annoyed that the larger points weren't being addressed (or apparently even read), but then I remembered the cartoon about someone being wrong on the internet. You know the one…

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7715/someoneiswrong.png

I have a tendency to take these things too seriously. I want to convince you guys that you are wrong. But why bother? Who gives a fat rat's patoot about whether some videogame portrays human beings realistically, or whether a couple guys agree with my views on the matter?

So I will not try to convince you. You are welcome to whatever vision of humanity you would like to entertain. Thank goodness, though, there are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your hardcore RPG-nut forums.

[Nerevarine]

Anderson - I think you have made some very good and valid points on humans wanting to create a more welcoming atmosphere around them - "customizing" their surroundings, if you will - and in no way do I think that you are "wrong." In fact, I think you make a very reasonable argument. We're probably getting way to deep into this discussion about Fallout on a philosophical level (though it is pretty cool that a game can trigger such deep discussions about humanity/human behavior), but here's my take: I suppose at a basic level, I personally wouldn't care about the visual aesthetics of my surroundings if I lived in the fictional Fallout universe, but that's because I don't even care about that stuff in real life. It just doesn't appeal to me, personally.

The reason why I think your argument is valid, however, is that I would try to make my world more appealing through music. While I'm not overly intrigued by visual appeal, I am very drawn to audio appeal; music is what gives my own surroundings the "beauty" that you speak of. So I can relate to what you are getting at in terms of human nature. it's just that every person has subjective differences on what appeals to them and "stimulates" their senses, and Bethesda and Obsidian seem to have created their gameworlds with the assumption that, in Fallout's universe, visual artistry and beauty wouldn't appeal to the people living there. I suppose a solution would be to create a mix of buildings that are the default Fallout 3/Vegas art design and some buildings that are more creative and "beautiful" to a reasonable extent.

[JDR13]

Not to mention, the people in the world of Fallout are obviously not in imminent danger of losing their lives. They stand around all day doing nothing. So if you're really arguing that Fallout is presenting a realistic portrayal of people who are barely surviving, I have to wonder what game you're playing.

That's just it though, we're not saying that. We realize that's not fully possible in a computer game.

I can see this means a lot to you, so I'll just concede that people in a post apocalyptic world are going to want to paint.

[Corwin]

If that's the case, then why are there SO many Paint Guns available? Perhaps it's our job to paint the place!! :)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

How come they've got all this cool technology, but no one has invented paint?

I understand the aesthetic, but I get tired of looking at the same dull grey colors everywhere. Presumably humans of the future would be the same, and they would go a little out of their way to lighten up their depressing world with a little color.

I guess that would ruin the atmosphere the developers are going for, but I always found it a little alienating.

The Cynic in me comments on this : This is called "realistic" colours. Just look at Star Wars Battlefront I vs. Star Wars Battlefront II. It's the same.

People have always been, and will always be, about more than mere survival.

Without having read everything, I wholeheartedly agree to this statement.

It's like … the Cynic in me would call it as "only REAL men don't need colour". And It's like Helga, the wife of Hägar The Horrible, commenting on how men would live without women while she is looking at pigs …

[Anderson]

I've said my peace, but thanks to those of you who "got it," particularly Nerevarine. Alrik, I think your non-cynical half got it, although I'm still trying to unpack that Hagar reference. :) JDR, thanks for the concession, but it's not necessary; I take the subject seriously but not winning an argument. And about the point you made, I only brought that up because the retorts essentially boiled down to "that's not realistic." And Corwin, that's good, lol. Let's go all Jackson Pollock on this shanty town…

Remember the "Themes" you could purchase (for a hefty sum) in Fallout 3, too? That was a touch of what I'm talking about, a reflection of the natural human desire to liven up a dark, miserable internal space.

But I suspect this subject has overstayed its welcome, so I'll zip it. To all a good night. :)

[JDR13]

I only brought that up because the retorts essentially boiled down to "that's not realistic."

I'm pretty sure it's not that simple.

The truth is we really don't know if it would be realistic or not.
Seeing as how there has never been an apocalypse in reality, we have no idea how we would actually behave in that situation. Hopefully we'll never have to find out. :)

[Moriendor]

When I was watching TV a little earlier tonight here in Germany they had a pretty interesting documentary on the preservation/restoration of art (mostly paintings) and how art and bringing some color to every-day life (e.g. artistic paintings on private and public transportation vehicles) plays a pretty big role in Haiti which as you may remember basically had their apocalypse when that big mofo of an earthquake hit them back in January.
In fact, the title of the documentary is "Art as a means of survival in Haiti" and if anyone really cares you can read more about it right here (http://www.daserste.de/ttt/beitrag_dyn%7Euid,nveo5nid93azmg0l%7Ecm.asp) (may want to put it through Google Translate if your German is a li'l rusty ;) ) and I'm sure that tomorrow or throughout the next week you'll be able to find the actual video of the documentary on this page right here (http://www.ardmediathek.de/ard/servlet/content/3516914?documentId=431902).

[Anderson]

I'm pretty sure it's not that simple.

The truth is we really don't know if it would be realistic or not.


I think you misunderstood me, but I probably wasn't clear. What I meant was this: If the objection to my idea is that such a concern with aesthetics would be "unrealistic," that presupposes that the world of Fallout is realistic — but of course it is not. Whatever happens after a nuclear apocalypse, I'm pretty sure it won't involve Mirelurks, Deathclaws, gangs of Elvis impersonators, people standing in one position all day, giant radscorpions, and an economy based on bottlecaps.

[Maylander]

@Anderson
This isn't really related to F:NV, but merely a case of me being curious.

I'd like to see these studies you mention. In most cultures, painting buildings still doesn't seem to be important. I've traveled quite extensively and only the certain countries seem to worry about paint - from the villages in Thailand, Tunisia and Malaysia to the brick houses of England, colour doesn't seem to be all that important to people. It's usually just grey or brown all over the place.

In a lot of cases, important buildings tend to be of a different colour, but usually because they're built from a different, more expensive material than wood or bricks that simply has a different colour. Still no paint.

[JDR13]

I think you misunderstood me, but I probably wasn't clear. What I meant was this: If the objection to my idea is that such a concern with aesthetics would be "unrealistic," that presupposes that the world of Fallout is realistic — but of course it is not. Whatever happens after a nuclear apocalypse, I'm pretty sure it won't involve Mirelurks, Deathclaws, gangs of Elvis impersonators, people standing in one position all day, giant radscorpions, and an economy based on bottlecaps.

Well I certainly don't think anyone here was trying to claim FO3 is an accurate representation of a real-world apocalypse. ;)

[Anderson]

Yet that was the basis of the objections: "It isn't realistic." Well... so? Neither is most of what happens in this world, so why not liven the place up a little? :p

@Anderson
This isn't really related to F:NV, but merely a case of me being curious.

I'd like to see these studies you mention. In most cultures, painting buildings still doesn't seem to be important. [....]


I never said that all cultures paint their buildings. That would be silly and obviously false.

I said that all cultures, and many human beings in extreme conditions, have had some interest in beauty and art (broadly conceived) -- or, to put it more plainly, some interest in making the places that they live pleasing, pleasant, inviting, or appealing somehow. As I said above,

I hope it's clear that I'm not just talking about painting a building, but about any impulse toward beauty and art (broadly conceived). That could include painting a building, but it could also include playing music, crafting a small object with care, painting a small area of the interior space (e.g., a bookcase), planting flowers, crafting something artfully, creating music, telling a story, having a houseplant, using fabrics or clothing artfully, etc.

There are many more examples -- arranging things in a particular way, sewing fabrics, using incense/scents, using animal fur, sculpting pottery, hanging little doo-dads, having religious artifacts or symbols placed around the home, chipping stone or wood in an artful way, etc., -- but I hope you get my drift.

[JDR13]

Yet that was the basis of the objections: "It isn't realistic." Well… so? Neither is most of what happens in this world, so why not liven the place up a little? .

Looking back over the previous posts, I don't see that quote anywhere.

It's my personal opinion that it wouldn't be a priority, if even done at all. Like I said though, there's no precedent for comparison.

[crpgnut]

I really don't mind the lack of paint, but if I was living anywhere for more than a day or two, I would pick up all the trash. To me, that's the most unrealistic part of the game. I've not traveled extensively, but do those in dire straits typically live in their own filth? It's funny, you never see a pair of dirty socks or underwear, but you'll find empty bottles, scraps of paper, and all sorts of varmint attracting litter. Honestly, don't you think radroaches/ROUS/molerats, etc. would quickly overrun any filthy areas?

[Lemonhead]

New patch for FNV coming up. This from their twitter:
"We’ve wrapped up work on the Fallout: New Vegas patch and submitted it. We’ll let you know when it’s up on PS3, 360, and Steam."

[Maylander]

I really don't mind the lack of paint, but if I was living anywhere for more than a day or two, I would pick up all the trash. To me, that's the most unrealistic part of the game. I've not traveled extensively, but do those in dire straits typically live in their own filth? It's funny, you never see a pair of dirty socks or underwear, but you'll find empty bottles, scraps of paper, and all sorts of varmint attracting litter. Honestly, don't you think radroaches/ROUS/molerats, etc. would quickly overrun any filthy areas?

I've seen that, yes, because they honestly don't care. It's so far down their list of priorities it's simply not something they even think about. To them, "filth" isn't really negative; it's just used stuff that might come in handy. In most such cases, everything comes in handy in one way or another - even stuff we'd call trash in the western world.

As far as strange realism-breaking stuff goes, the working computers is the biggest mystery of all in my opinion. I don't care how robust you build a computer, it won't last 200 years without maintenance.

[BillSeurer]

As far as strange realism-breaking stuff goes, the working computers is the biggest mystery of all in my opinion. I don't care how robust you build a computer, it won't last 200 years without maintenance.

That's just part of the "weird science" of all the Fallouts. I mean, there are usable **magnetic tapes** just lying around as well as perfectly preserved foodstuffs. "Still good!" as the label reads on one of them.

[JDR13]

as well as perfectly preserved foodstuffs. "Still good!" as the label reads on one of them.

That's the one that gets me. I wish they had included some kind of explanation for the shelf life of things like Dandy Boy Apples, or Salisbury Steak.

Personally, my character eats nothing but freshly killed Mirelurk meat and Mutfruits. ;)

[BillSeurer]

That's the one that gets me. I wish they had included some kind of explanation for the shelf life of things like Dandy Boy Apples, or Salisbury Steak.

Personally, my character eats nothing but freshly killed Mirelurk meat and Mutfruits. ;)

It's a joke about how crappy processed food is. Still good after 200 years!

When I ran a "live" tabletop Fallout game the players were really excited when they found a stash of Hostess Twinkies. They split one up to see if they still were good and of course they were.

[crpgnut]

The massive doses of radiation killed all bacteria permanently. After 200 years or so, the radiation has dropped enough that eating the food won't kill you, but it's still irradiated enough to keep bacteria out.

[BillSeurer]

The massive doses of radiation killed all bacteria permanently.

Unfortunately that would leave all higher life forms dead too...

[Greymane]

There is very little that is realistic in the Fallout games.
Paint has been and will be used on buildings and such for preservation of the material and to keep it from rusting or rotting away too fast or to coat it for better insulation and so it's not too abrasive to the human skin. Colors for decoration is another thing and a personal choice.
I certainly hope to never be in a post-apocalyptic world with some of you, if you can't be bothered to pick up the tin cans and garbage where you live.. lol

[crpgnut]

I know these people aren't in to personal hygiene. The people at Camp Forlorn Hope will sit on the john but they don't drop their drawers first. Eewww!

[Thrasher]

I'd say the colors chosen, were chosen for effect, not reality. Apparently they had a bad effect on some of you. ;)

[Anderson]

I know these people aren't in to personal hygiene. The people at Camp Forlorn Hope will sit on the john but they don't drop their drawers first. Eewww!

:lol: That can't turn out well.

[DeepO]

A few imo-points.

1. computer games are abstractions
2. unless a game claims to be faithful simulation, only internal consistency really matters

In Fallout a lot of things can be easily explained away with "science!" tag since the apocalypse occurred in 2077, not yesterday.
Bottle cap as a main currency are perfectly plausible within the settings, they´re backed up by fresh water reserves in the Hub.
So is the gang of Elvis impersonators. "Conversion" to tribalism/gangism is one of the natural ways how to deal with the state Fallout world´s in, sharing the same visual identity strengthens sense of unity, resources are scarce, so if someone bumps on rock´n´roll school full of leather jackets and hair gel…
Etc.

What abstractions find their way into the game is influenced by design (genre, settings), artistic license, economical and technical reasons. The game´s foci are exploration (lots of locations, open ended gameplay), quests (multiple solutions, interconnectedness, consequences), faction interplay, character defining/building and survival.
Details are thus distributed between more aspects of the game and detailing one aspect significantly more than the others would shift the game´s intended overall balance.
That said, people´s need for art wasn´t omitted entirely. There are radios, posters, a guy who´s running out of inspiration and player has to make photos for him and in one quest player has to recruit performers for casino theater, I´m sure there are other examples. Given the scope and focus of the game, that isn´t so bad.
The relative lack of colours is to be subscribed more to an artistic license than to failed realism check, and goes well with the game´s intended mood and morality grayness (Legion is dangerously close to cartoonish evil, but that´s besides the point here). For now, for those who wish more colours in their F:NV, there´s a choice between Fellout NV, Nevada Skies and URWL for New Vegas - Realistic Lighting mods (personally I don´t like either).
For a visually more vibrant Fallout title, I recommend Wasteland :).
http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/albums/Wasteland_Screenshots/normal_wl_004.jpg

[holeraw]

The 'wide audience' expects to see debris and chaos when thinking post-apocalypse and New Vegas delivers. Its world is inexplicably messed up, but I personally didn't expect different from Bethesda.

[zakhal]

Allthough its nice to have som realism in rpgs thats not what rpgs are really about so I dont worry about it too much. If i want realism I play simulators.

Fallout could use som colorful houses though. Just to have som variation. I really liked teh oasis in fallout3.

[Toff]

I feel blah on a cloudy gloomy day. A nice sunshiny day makes me feel better without a doubt. The same with trees, I like being around green growing stuff.

Its a game and I expect it to not be exactly what I want but some color would have made the game seem more alive to me. All the trash is blah too. Endless trash and decay. I'm just nitpicking.

Anyway I don't dislike the game as I greatly prefer RPGs to other game types but I will not be extending my visit to F:NV by getting any DLC.

I feel the exact same way I did when I played F3. I wanted to finish the game so I could get into a more colorful Fable 2 which this time will be Fable 3.

36 hours in the game now and just level 12 I think. Still no bugs besides pathing issues and those are not game breaking at all. I've done a few quests around New Vegas and have no clue what is ahead of me as I prefer to not look at walkthroughs. One of the things I do like is that I do actually have important faction choices to make this time. I have no idea what the effect is of those choices yet.

Those damn mutated flies keep kicking my a$$ tho! I've had to skip cross country more than once and travel down a road to avoid them ....

[crpgnut]

Those flies are in the top three of toughest creatures in the game. Enjoy!

[Anderson]

One of the things I do like is that I do actually have important faction choices to make this time. I have no idea what the effect is of those choices yet.


I like that, too. I'm early in the game, lvl. 8, just reached the Strip. I am getting to know the factions, so this question is coming mostly from ignorance -- are any of these factions good or admirable? I know this is a "scales of gray" game, not a game with polar good/evil opposites, but so far, all I've encountered (except for NCR, I guess, who seem rather non-descript) is one control/power-oriented group of douchebags after another. I would like to find a faction I feel good about and would like to support, but so far, I haven't. Then again, like I said, I'm early on, and I'm just beginning to get to know the different factions, so maybe I just need to learn more, and I'll find my niche.

[BillSeurer]

I like that, too. I'm early in the game, lvl. 8, just reached the Strip. I am getting to know the factions, so this question is coming mostly from ignorance — are any of these factions good or admirable?

Admirable? Yes. Most, probably all, of them are admirable in some way or another.

Good? No. Assuming you mean the D&D-ish definition of good that most games use.

Just like the real world.

[Anderson]

Admirable? Yes. Most, probably all, of them are admirable in some way or another.

Good? No. Assuming you mean the D&D-ish definition of good that most games use.

Just like the real world.

I probably just need to play some more and get to know them. Then I'll discover something to like about one of them. Hopefully, it's not like voting in elections, where you have to pick either Republican or Democrat but you know they both suck. I assume it's not, and it's just a matter of getting to know their backgrounds and motives better.

[JDR13]

I probably just need to play some more and get to know them. Then I'll discover something to like about one of them.


I thought I heard something about a painter's union. ;) jk

[Anderson]

hee hee :)

[crpgnut]

I'd say that the Followers of the Apocalypse are your closest faction to being "good". They're scientists and doctors who want all the world to have technologies benefits. Kind of a Brotherhood alter ego.

[Anderson]

Sounds good, crpgnut, thanks. I think I ran across them in the Old Mormon Fort in Freeside. I'll have to go back there.

Right now I'm doing some quests for the Omerta, in Gomorrah. I figured I'd get to know them first. Yipes, bad choice. They're not exactly the type of people I want to be supporting.

Everyone tells me to f*ck myself. :(

[JDR13]

I'd say that the Followers of the Apocalypse are your closest faction to being "good". They're scientists and doctors who want all the world to have technologies benefits. Kind of a Brotherhood alter ego.

Weren't those the idiots that worshipped the bomb in Megaton in FO3?

*Edit* Nevermind…. that was the Children of the Atom. :thinking:

*Edit 2* Duh… they were in FO1 right? The group that opposed the Children of the Cathedral.



Everyone tells me to f*ck myself. :(

They're tired of listening to you whine about the color palette.

[Anderson]

I resemble that remark.

[Jerry Mannister]

I rented it for 5 days and sunk in almost 25 hours. Gotta re-rent it and finish up the Freeside/Strip/GK/Brotherhood quests, then do the end game. Fantastic, addicting stuff.

[holeraw]

I finally finished it on Saturday after losing interest right in the end for a week.

I decide to support the NCR. They tell me to kill mr House because I was obviously the one human he trusted the most and I left him alive, they tell me to calm down the Kings and I did so because I'm their leader's best friend too, they order me to destroy the Knans so I become their best friend, then they order me to destroy the brotherhood of steel and so not only do I help them re-emerge instead but I even become a member.

So after it becomes as obvious as possible that I'm the best friend of every single of NCR's enemies they ask me to… protect their president… What follows is what seems to me the most inappropriate sequence of quests that I've seen in an RPG. Think about it: my character is a person with completely unknown past and motives who has proven to be an ally of all the enemies of the NCR (except the Legion of course) and when the president visits a location occupied by NCR's elite, this guy is one of those chosen to protect the president and is given the freedom to wander around restricted areas.

I honestly thought that returning to Hoover Dam wearing brotherhood armor and announcing that they are all safe and well after I was sent to wipe them out would be the last straw and that I would have messed up this path.

When it turned out that, although I was right in the middle of the bulk of NCR's army, it was up to me to fight through the front lines of the enemy and kill their leader on my own I completely lost interest… I know it was expected from the very beginning and I've seen that way too many times in RPGs, but this one somehow annoyed me more.

I believe it's the fact that once Benny is out of the way and I have the platinum chip, the game completely neglects to give my character any other palpable motive to do anything… there's no water chip or GECK that the NCR can promise to give me if I help them out… nobody promises anything at all as far as I remember, they all just assume that I will want to help them for some reason.

I ended up wishing that one of my dialog options with colonel Moore would be "Shut the f*** up you b*** and don't try to order me around again or I'll release the Khans on you and I'll go aid Caesar instead" because… why on earth would they assume that I wouldn't?

And that's what gets me: not only do I not see any reason for my character to get involved in this mess but I don't see any reason at all why anyone else would expect him to do so either…

[Jerry Mannister]

Do any options involve the Khans or Brotherhood taking a side in the final battle? It seems like by default the Khans should aid the legion and the Brotherhood should sit out.

[Maylander]

Yes, you can get them to help you out both by following the path of the NCR, and following your own path (using Yes Man to take over for Mr. House).

Note (and small spoiler):
Do not replace the leader of the Brotherhood if you want a diplomatic solution.

[Dwagginz]

I got New Vegas on Monday, and my thoughts can be summed up thusly:

*Censored*

I'm not having fun with it at all, not to mention it's now decided it's not going to work.

[BillSeurer]

Do any options involve the Khans or Brotherhood taking a side in the final battle? It seems like by default the Khans should aid the legion and the Brotherhood should sit out.

Taking part in the final battle is pretty weak, actually. A few of their guys show up and help you fight through a part that you don't really need any help with. For the real final battle you are on your own except for maybe a couple of NCR Rangers (who may only show up if you did certain quests, not sure).

I found the final battle impossible without using an exploit. I was level 30, had the best power armor, was pumped up on all the best combat helpers, had loads of stimpacks, and the best energy weapons in the game with 100 energy weapon skill. None-the-less I just could not take down the final few Legion guys fast enough. They took out my followers and the rangers and then me.

There's a spot you can stand where the legion guys can't get to you. Bring lots of ammo, though, as I actually ran out (went through more than 300!) the first time I tried.

If your speech skill is high enough you can talk the Legion into leaving. I thought that was actually a lame ending because it didn't really resolve the NCR/Legion dispute despite what the slideshow ending showed.

[Toff]

I haven't touched the game in about a week now.

Not a bad game but it feels like an expansion pack for F3.

I'll try to pick it up this weekend and see if it holds my interest.

I want to finish it so I can trade it for Fable 3.

[curious]

new vegas is an expansion pack to fallout 3 as
america is an expansion pack to england

[Anderson]

I find myself bored of the game, too. I guess 100 hrs of venturing in the Fallout 3 wasteland was enough post-apocalyptic questing to last me for a long while. I know there are plenty of changes to the gameplay, but it feels like "more of the same" to me, in an inferior setting (I dislike Vegas), and with a dull storyline (not that F3's was that great, but it engaged me more than this one does). I'm going to put it on the shelf and come back to it later next year.

[curious]

"bitches be loco"

[Dwagginz]

I spent most of last night playing NV on my poor ol' 7600GT (I bet it's never had to work so hard in its life), and I'm actually enjoying it more than I thought I would. I'm running around doing quests outside the Strip and whilst it's a bit back-and-forth, I do like it.

I've noticed that Speech and Barter seem to be much more important than in FO3, though.

[wolfgrimdark]

Just an observation based on posts on a few forums - for those who played FO3 it seems they have a harder time with FNV - while more polished it is still more of the same in many ways. On the other hand those who are playing it without having played F03 it tends to get a better reception.

FNV was my first return to FO since FO1 and it has become my new favorite game (top 5) although I doubt I will play it more than twice (although the first time I put in 100 hours or so). That is because I got FO3 and it is more of the same game play - although less refined IMO. I tend to miss a lot of the things in FNV. Still I am enjoying FO3 for what it is. But in some ways I feel like I am playing more of the same.

For me at least this sense of "more of the same" is only a factor because I am a fantasy buff so can only take so much of the "post-apocalyptic" world setting before it wears me down. My love of FNV had to do with the characters, writing, and the incredible flexibility I had in designing and playing my own character. It was a breath of fresh air after so many games with limited character options.

For instance playing every BG game and expansions, or NWN games, I never got tired of them even though it was "more of the same" in many ways.

Guess I can take blown up cities for so long :)

[JDR13]

I'm really looking forward to playing FO:NV, but I'm not going to play it immediately after FO3. A lot of people seem to be suffering Fallout burnout when trying to play them one after the other. :)

I just started playing FO3 again after a few weeks away. I'm at 135 hours now, and still haven't played most of the DLC missions yet.

[Dwagginz]

To me, New Vegas is more of the same with regards to Fallout 3, but it takes it to a new level. It's deeper, it's more complex, it's a lot more "realistic" in terms of what you're finding and scavenging, there's named enemies that give better rewards (Especially with associated quests) and it improves on FO3 in most respects.

The inventory is a mess, though, even with UI mods installed. I think they need to move ammo parts (Lead, primers etc) out of the buy/sell menu because they just clog it up so much and make it hard to find what you need. There's a lot of ammo types, too, and it can get a bit confusing.

I'm not sure about the perk-every-two-levels thing, either. I suppose it helps balance the game, but it makes character progression slower and a bit "worse". Combine it with the greater emphasis on your auxiliary skills (Survival, Speech, Repair, possibly Barter), and it means your character can really suffer at the start.

I also don't like how Goodsprings is configured to dissuade you from making a save at the end and doing the "vault trick" for starting a new character. The creation process is long and drawn out (I hate the vigor tester with a passion), you lose potential XP/items (Which are very useful at the start of NV due to the increased difficulty/complexity) and I'm just not a fan of how the game begins.

[DeepO]

your character can really suffer at the start.

But that is a good thing, amirite?

I am.

[JDR13]

I'm not sure about the perk-every-two-levels thing, either. I suppose it helps balance the game, but it makes character progression slower and a bit "worse". Combine it with the greater emphasis on your auxiliary skills (Survival, Speech, Repair, possibly Barter), and it means your character can really suffer at the start.



This is how it should be, and how FO3 should have been imo. Getting a perk every single level in FO3 was ridiculous.

You were granted a perk only once every three levels in FO 1&2

[human_male]

This is how it should be, and how FO3 should have been imo. Getting a perk every single level in FO3 was ridiculous.

You were granted a perk only once every three levels in FO 1&2

I'd have it every three levels if I could have my way. I'd also get rid of the Intense Training perk that allows you to raise your SPECIAL stats. I'd like to see how it was in F2 where at about level 10 (I can't remember exactly) you could raise each of your stats by one, so there's a perk to raise Strength that you can take once, ect.

[human_male]

I'm not sure about the perk-every-two-levels thing, either. I suppose it helps balance the game, but it makes character progression slower and a bit "worse". Combine it with the greater emphasis on your auxiliary skills (Survival, Speech, Repair, possibly Barter), and it means your character can really suffer at the start.


Personally I like slow character progression. If I played on the PC the first mod I would look for is a level slow mod. I think things should be hard at the start.

[Dwagginz]

Personally I like slow character progression. If I played on the PC the first mod I would look for is a level slow mod. I think things should be hard at the start.
But that is a good thing, amirite?
Of course, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I just think the beginning is a bit annoying because of all the skill-based speech checks and the long, drawn-out process.

This is how it should be, and how FO3 should have been imo. Getting a perk every single level in FO3 was ridiculous.

You were granted a perk only once every three levels in FO 1&2
Indeed. It's really helped balance the game and it's still a bit challenging on whatever difficulty I'm on (Easy, I think), especially with those annoying Cazador things.

I think my next character will be Speech/Survival and something else, possibly Repair. They're so important in NV, and it'd be a challenge to base a character around them.

[wolfgrimdark]

My canon game (first) was survival, speech and melee. he was a charming outdoorsman who had a strong dislike of technology. based very loosely on the character Mike Havel from "Dies the Fire" by S. M. Stirling.

Anyhow … he did very well. I totally skipped guns and the like (I had Boone after all) and went heavy on melee. He finished the game using the Knock-Knock fire ax. I never used the implants but did take a few perks for SPECIAL.

I found speech super useful and fun. Survival was not as useful but still enjoyed it and the cooking came in handy for one quest in New Vegas at a certain hotel. Also I tried to avoid med packs and the like so some of the survival perks and skills were useful. I loved the melee combat though. I suck at FPS and with guns I kept hitting allies.

I also had a fairly high sneak … but found it a little less useful with companions. Repair was super useful … almost to much so as I almost felt it was mandatory as a skill which I feel no skill in a game should ever be "required". Still I got buy without getting it over 45.

[Dwagginz]

I see what you mean about repair, WGD. From making ammo to passing speech checks, it's quite a prevalent skill, and if you get it to 90 for Junk Monkey (I think that's the name) then it becomes even better.

Edit: I'm stopping all my skills at 90. If I need to go above I just need to use a skill magazine or similar, plus having 100 is so rarely needed I didn't see the point.

[wolfgrimdark]

I see what you mean about repair, WGD. From making ammo to passing speech checks, it's quite a prevalent skill, and if you get it to 90 for Junk Monkey (I think that's the name) then it becomes even better.

Edit: I'm stopping all my skills at 90. If I need to go above I just need to use a skill magazine or similar, plus having 100 is so rarely needed I didn't see the point.

Having 100 speech does give you a special option that can make a big difference. Course only if you want to role play that way. I had 100 speech and didn't make that choice for RP reasons. Course, as you said, the max skill options don't come up to much. Anyhow don't want to spoil anything :-)

EDIT: On a side note besides the bonus to the skill, charisma can affect (or is that effect) companions. It also can increase general friendliness of the NPC's. I noticed this as my first character had 9 to start and I maxed him to 10. My second character, who is still young, has a 5 and people react a little differently. Although I think those things are not very common.

[Dwagginz]

Yeah, I think Charisma counts towards your "Nerve" (Something new, I think) which affects your companions and their abilities.

Loading screen tips FTW, eh? ;)

[Toff]

My poor poor deformed character with a Charisma of 1.

Doomed to be shunned all his life ....