Gothic 3 - Review Flood

[Gorath]

A gazillion Gothic 3 reviews have been posted on German sites since the release last Friday:

Fan site World of Gothic (http://www.worldofgothic.de/gothic3/index.php?go=test1) has posted a thorough examination of the first 20 hours. They put all the positive and negative points in context. No score is given.
gamona (http://www.gamona.de/article/detail/id-gestatten_namenloser_held_der_dritte_hol_172856.ht m) gives it a "Gold Award".
The freenet (http://gaming.freenet.de/freenet.php/dispbericht/PC-CDROM/Test/3266/4906/0/Gothic_3.html) = 4Players (http://www.4players.de/4players.php/dispbericht/PC-CDROM/Test/3266/4906/0/Gothic_3.html) reviewer continues his crusade against Gothic 3 (please refer to his late preview of the GC version when everybody was already discussing the recalled gold master) with an 68% score.
Extreme Players (http://www.extreme-players.de/product_review.php?pid=645&aid=pc) is on the other end of the spectrum and thinks it deserves 9.3/10.
Freemail provider GMX (http://www.gmx.net/de/themen/computer/games/spielderwoche/3020116.html) loves it. Despite its problems Gothic 3 is "an absolute top title".
T-Online (http://onspiele.de/c/93/38/12/9338120.html) writes it´s a great RPG for experienced explorers but problematic for beginners.
Onlinewelten (http://www.onlinewelten.com/reviews,id1362,1,gothic_3_highlight_jahres_test.ht ml) says the unfinished balancing and the weak AI drag the game down. The rest is good to great. 83%.
GBase.ch (http://www.gbase.ch/pc/reviews/380/2434__p1.html) thinks it´s not a finished game. 7/10.
DemoNews (http://www.demonews.de/reviews/index.php?artikel=1004&bs=1) gives Gothic 3 84%. It´s very good but not more.
Print mag PC Games (http://www.pcgames.de/?article_id=514181&page=1) raises the score for the patched 2nd gold master to 88%.
Sister mag PC Action likes it too. 87%.
And finally Gameswelt (http://gameswelt.de/artikel/index.php?id=1942) sees a lot of pros and cons. 81%.
More information (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=2328)

[r3dshift]

Any news about a possible patch flood anytime soon?

[Gorath]

Only that the priorities will be on bugfixing and AI.

[r3dshift]

Only that the priorities will be on bugfixing and AI.

Well, that's where priorities should lie, shouldn't they? I haven't played the game myself, but am unwilling to as long as it's so bug-ridden as it is now.

Thanks for the heads-up, anyway ;)

[Gorath]

It´s not bug-ridden. At least for me. :D
But the AI is weak compared to the older Gothics and the balancing sucks.

[whatusername]

I get like MASSIVE stuttering on it. I wish they would have optimised it more.

[JonNik]

I get like MASSIVE stuttering on it. I wish they would have optimised it more.

How much mem do you have ?
Did you raise the resource Cache option ?
Recently defragged (and after your install too) ?

It´s not bug-ridden. At least for me. :D
But the AI is weak compared to the older Gothics and the balancing sucks.

Well those are both fixable by patches at least.

But How about Story/Dialogs ? I've seen some concerns raised there...

I've read Maylander's opinion back in the dot. How do the rest of you
brave souls (those not waiting for the atleast 2-3 still-necessary-by-the
-looks-of-it patches) rate the quality compared to G1-2 (G2 minus NOTR
already signalled a plunge for these features imo) ?

No Spoilers please.

[nameless hero]

Well, I havent got G3 yet, and after all these reviews I cant imagine myself getting it anytime soon. Or at least until a patch is released and some "real" positive feedback is said. I love G1&G2, and I allways knew G3 will be worst, but with better graphics. Incidentally, I noticed Oblivion recieved a higher praise than G3 when it first came out. It would appear that Oblivion beat G3 in the market, but its yet to be determined.

[Rendelius]

If I would have to review the game as it is now, my rating would be in the lower 80s as well. Once they have fixed the balancing (top priority) and AI (high priority), it would be close to 90, if not slightly above.

[Illuvatar]

I think i'm gonna wait a couple of month's before playing G3. I'm still saving up for a new PC that I want to buy in Q1 2007, and i'll entertain myself with The Temple of Elemental Evil + Co8 mod and Neverwinter Nights 2 the next couple of month's!

[nameless hero]

Really Rendelius?? around 90?? From what i've read combat seems worse than in G1 and G2, balancing aside. And as everyone knows, G1&2 was legendary for its combat, at least in the RPGDOT community.

[txa1265]

I am still highly excited about this ... but more happy than ever that I'm in the US and patiently waiting for Aspyr ;)

[Gorath]

I agree to this 100%, Rend.

The harsh reviewers forgot how much fun the game is despite its problems. Even with crappy AI, ca. 300 small bugs, and terrible balancing it´s far better than all these faceless, average games we see every year. If the three mentioned issues are fixed it has the potential to become one of the best RPGs ever.

[Gorath]

Really Rendelius?? around 90?? From what i've read combat seems worse than in G1 and G2, balancing aside. And as everyone knows, G1&2 was legendary for its combat, at least in the RPGDOT community.

The combat system is good, dynamic and more complex that the old one. The problem is the balancing.

[Illuvatar]

But do you guys think it's patchable? Or is it a design flaw? (I haven't played G3 yet) If it's just the animal combat 'problem', that should be 'easy' to fix I presume, but if it's the new combat system that makes it so easy to kill entire Orc camps with your character (remember how multiple orcs were still a challenge in G2, allthough your character was quite strong?) it will demand a major overhaul.

[JonNik]

Really Rendelius?? around 90?? From what i've read combat seems worse than in G1 and G2, balancing aside. And as everyone knows, G1&2 was legendary for its combat, at least in the RPGDOT community.

From the Little I've played combat is not THAT bad...
Its just the balancing and silly issues like the Stunlocking
from some beasts (Dying from a bloodfly while fighting an
Orc seems easy !) That turn the action in a right click
buttonmashing (So you get the initiative and survive).

It can be both tactical and "elegant" I think if the above are fixed.

My main Concern was story and overall quality.
Rendelius and Gorath's comments do put my mind at ease a bit...

[elkston]

Really Rendelius?? around 90?? From what i've read combat seems worse than in G1 and G2, balancing aside. And as everyone knows, G1&2 was legendary for its combat, at least in the RPGDOT community.

Melee combat takes a step down from G1 & G2. Although I would like to
wait until everything is fixed before I give my fiinal judgment. I don't
think I'll ever like it more than G1 & G2, but it can be close if the enemy AI improves
such that you can't just win every battle by furiously left clicking.

Archery, on the other hand, has definitely changed for the better. Not only can you
aim your bow manually now, but arrows now make a natural arc towards thier target. There are more arrow types to use and you can forge your own special arrows if you learn the right skills. But even with those great improvements, archery is still not without its problems. For instance, it was mentioned in a lot of the previews that you can do headshots for massive damage. Well either I suck at aiming, or I just haven't hit a head yet. I just don't see it. I am wondering if it is bugged or just not implemented (yet).

Also -- and this is a big one -- I really don't see how gaining new
levels in Archery actually effects combat. It seems that bow damage
is soely a function of hunting skill, the weapon, and the arrow. Raising
my perk from "Bowman" to "archer" did not add any new techniques
or speed to which I could draw back the bow (at least that I noticed).
I am now a master archer but am at a loss as to what that got me other
than a prestigious title.

Anyway, I am forging on because the world is huge & beautifully made and
the touches of Gothic are definitely there in the dialogue and characters (though it
is spread too thin now -- more characters & bigger world means less depth).

Just for the record, I am level 25 now and have been playing since Saturday. Half of Myrtana is still unexplored and havent' even visited Nordmar or Varant. There is just so much to do around each area and the famous "Gothic density" is there in spades. I have only touched a small part of the main plot so I can't really comment on that aspect. It definitely keeps me coming back, though :)

The quests so far are mostly clear this out/get this for me type things. However, there are other more interesting ones as well. You might feel they skimped on this if you just play around in the early areas (Cape Dun & Ardea). But once you get to Montera you'll see more variety and depth.

That's all for now ... I still have a lot more to play before I can give true judgments.

[Unregistered]

I wonder if they'll optimize the engine further in patches as well. From what I gather, the engine is slower than many other current ones. This could be due to the seamless world, but having smooth play on high settings only possible on very recent hardware would be such a shame (for me :P).

[speon]

I've been playing (more toying around) with the UK version of the game since Saturday. While the core game is there and looks to be amazing, G3 was released too early IMHO. The combat and balance is just not there yet.

I mean, I shouldn't be able to decimate the entirety of the first town by simply punching everyone rapidly with right-clicks - especially at level 0. I try the same thing with a sword and a lowly slave, or a wolf can kill me outright. IIRC, most of the NPCs in G1 and G2 would flat-out destroy me well into level 20...

Sadly, I really miss climbing as well, if only for the fact that it's now much easier to exploit the AI since they can't climb after you. Archery + high perches = shooting fish in a barrel.

There are lots of technical bugs as well - audio and sfx are severely broken and the interface is lacking a lot of polish. I realize that G3 is a technology pushing game, but the world streaming still feels like some optimization can be done to make things more playable. Currently, running anywhere in the wilderness isn't really feasible due to hitching/loading pauses.

The game has the potential to be amazing and I plan on waiting for at least another patch or two before delving into it further. I absolutely believe Aspyr made the right decision in holding off a bit further for release in the US.

[gargar]

why rush things? wate for the patch and then play it. the game will be much more enjoyable that way.

[elkston]

why rush things? wate for the patch and then play it. the game will be much more enjoyable that way.

Because the true CRPG fans have played everything else
out there and Gothic 3 is the only game in town right now. :)

Once Dark Messiah of M&M comes out next week, I'll have something
else to dig into while Gothic 3 gets fixed. Also NWN2 comes a week after that
so that's even more to keep me busy until the "ultimate" G3 is available. :)

[txa1265]

Once Dark Messiah of M&M comes out next week, I'll have something
else to dig into while Gothic 3 gets fixed. Also NWN2 comes a week after that
so that's even more to keep me busy until the "ultimate" G3 is available. :)

That is why I'm not worried ... I can wait a month for Aspyr to release the US version - hopefully with at least one more patch :)

[Wulf]

I believe Dark Messiah will score with the low spec' puter brigade. Some players seem to be putting on hold any upgrading plans. As well of the strategy of waiting for any G3 patch, why spend big money on extra mem' - graphics card etc' - when most can run Dark Messiah on a medium/low specification machine as below for now and upgrade for G3 at a later date? :)

* Windows 2000/XP
* 2.2GHz processor
* 512MB RAM
* 6GB hard disk space
* DVD-ROM drive
* 128MB graphics card

[Cormac]

I agree to this 100%, Rend.

The harsh reviewers forgot how much fun the game is despite its problems. Even with crappy AI, ca. 300 small bugs, and terrible balancing it´s far better than all these faceless, average games we see every year. If the three mentioned issues are fixed it has the potential to become one of the best RPGs ever.

That's good to hear.
So, is a RPGWatch review forthcoming ?

[Gorath]

Will take a long time. A detailed First Impressions article should be ready early next week.

[Cormac]

That's good, thanks.

[Moorkh]

Been playing on and off for nigh a week now and while I was highly sceptical about the game given its recent coverage I feel greatly relieved that it does indeed have the feel of a Gothic - and of a 'complete' game as well - even though I have encountered my share of bugs. Balancing is certainly an issue, and so is AI, but the latter at least serves its purpose well enough. Combat seems to rely more on skill than on stats, and nearly every critter can spell my doom if I'm taken unawares or overwhelmed by numbers (that is, by more than one ;) ). Yet, one on one, I can take on almost everything by leftclicking, as has been mentioned. Disappointingly, I have not yet found any tactical depth to combat beyond the basic slash, striking always first and as quickly as possible, and moving beyond the enemy's reach if in trouble.

Crashes are not an issue with my mid-spec system, and neither is performance. Bugs are abundant if you look for them, but I don't find them immersion-breaking.

Quests, world design and dialogues are all very well done, I feel, but world interactivity is somewhat lacking to me.

While I really like that reviewer from 4player.de (his writing is usually superb, and I I'm regularly amused by his columns), I do not understand the immense disappointment he seems to feel about the game. Still, he does have some points and reviews are intended to be subjective. If people'd just stop trying to add a number to everything. Oh, well...

[kalniel]

I'm still waiting for my copy in the UK :( Ordered on the 12th, it's been delayed twice so far (lack of supply) next check is tommorow but I hold little confidence it'll be met.

[Corwin]

So far, it's a Gothic!! I'm having fun even when getting killed by a mine-crawler I couldn't outrun; probably because I was being chased by 3 giant lizards at the time!! :) I even managed to kill a Boar. I'm still only level 5, so I've a LONG way to go!!

[Moorkh]

Having just killed all the ogres and dragons beneath Cape Dun at level 10 by shooting them from afar with arrows, my reservations about the game's AI increase. However, it took me quite a bit of work figuring out how to and then reloading again and again, so I was quite satisfied with myself - until I was surprised and killed by a bloodfly shortly after, losing some ten minutes of gameplay since my last save :P

Thankfully, that DVD removal trick has amended those tedious reload times a bit, at least! :)

[txa1265]

killed by a bloodfly

Ha! The bane of my Gothic 2 existance! :D