NWN2 - Discuss the ending

[txa1265]

I'm taking this off of the CRPG 'list of ingredients' thread as it was getting close to being spoilerific ...

After playing NWN2, I'll have to add: a proper ending. What happened to hapy endings anyway?

I'll also drop in a poll ...

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

the 'Yoda!' vote was so tempting!!!

But I didn't. I did not like the ending, in any way.
Storywise, not only did my hero perish, but allmost all those who she loved and held dear with her, and her father's fate was to wander endlessly, searching for her. It was an unhappy ending, that made me feel I did it all for nothing, especially those long hours spent on building the keep, a home. My character should have been allowed to retire there, with her friends and loved ones.

As for there being a glimmer of hope because there were no bodies: even worse. It does not make a difference, my character and her friends are still lost, not being able to return to loved ones (Khelgar's clan, my hero's father) or go back home in peace.

The game and dialog were so good upto that last fight, the ending just feels wrong. i did not mind some people turning against me, Bishop and Neesshka had been lost to me way before the ending, and I'm sure Sand took some delight in getting rid of that spoiled brat, Qara, I know I did.

But the ending was terrible. The boss fight so cliche, even the 'distroy the pillars to weaken the boss' got used, and then: three times? Oh come on, it was the worst fight in the whole game (I was soooo bored throughout it, especially with all the little ones).
The ShadowKing was terrible as well, all through the games there were hints that he was a good, decent, honorable man, corrupted by the shadows. Why was there no chance to talk to him, persuade him to leave, or even ending with him asking to be destroyed, just like the dragon?

And then the actual ending: a bunch of drawings and a bored dev reading out some cheesy lines. What happened to the impressive movie like the one in the beginning? Why could they not get one of the proper voice actors (maybe Nasher's or Casavir's) to read those lines out? Did the budget run that low?
And I really could not care less what happened to captain Brianna (or whatever) of the watch and every other Tom, Dick or Harry I talked to more then once. That would have been a lot more interesting if it would actually have been about the main characters...

Anyway, end of my rant. Loved the game, hated the ending. I will never play through the OC again, since it is all for nothing anyway, and no matter what choice I make, the end will always be depressing and unhappy...

[HiddenX]

I liked it, but not much.

There's a chance for another story for my hero and his party - maybe on a different plane.

The ending was a long series of boss fights - finally there was a need for all these god-weapons. When will crpg-developers learn, that god-weapons have to be rare ?

[Corwin]

I've been told that the evil ending is actually much better than the 'good' ending, but I never play evil!! Anyone think it was a last minute decision by JS to get the game out the door? I have yet to see any 'official' explanation I could accept!!!!

[Acleacius]

The only thing good I can say about the ending was hearing all the Non party based info, though this was little consolation for the shitty ending.
As I posted in the other thread even if this was intended to be a cliffhanger ending as in some Eposodic Comic book styled game, it failed to even provide a metiocore ending.

Not to mention that the evil we were fighting once was exposed not to be Amon, I lost all intrest or caring about the boss.

"last minute decision by JS to get the game out the door"
You can count me in this camp, I think JS did things that took away from the intended story and I do regret I can't remember the original devs name whom ran the show for NWN2, so if anyone recalls let me know, thanks. :)

I at least at this point feel the game would have been better and my feeling is atari needed this title out asap due to finacial problems as expericed with jowood, though NWN2 was released in a little better state.

This reminds me very much of RSmith's exit before Thief (The Deadly Console Shadows of Evisceration) release.

[abbaon]

"And then the roof fell on their heads. The End." I love it.

[Cm]

I didn't like it, but it does leave the door open ever so slightly for moders and devs I guess. I am playing it again as an evil character to see the other side. If I can keep my evil stats it will be interesting. :lol:

[Corwin]

But you're inherently evil!! :biggrin:

[Maylander]

I like it, it opens for an expansion without making up a silly story as to how the hero now faces yet another great threat. I think it is quite obvious that our heroes didn't vanish - this is basically the exact same thing that happened in the first NWN add-on.

[Acleacius]

It just seems almost anything would have been better, even for leaving open an expansion than, the roof caved in!

Real quick how about this?
As The Gaurdian faultered with the final blow, the Sword of Gith seemed to pusle with the light, space and time where he resided, so too did the hero begin to fluxuate, eminating from the heart with great intensity and as light began to bend around our heroes.
Catching a final glimpse of each other's smiles, the mantel's they earned protecting the ones they loved, vansihing in a flash.

Ok I know it was chessy but I only had 5 minutes and obviously it could be changed for an evil ending but since I haven't/wont't play it, I couldn't say. :)

[PatrickWeekes]

I have a theory. It's not the world's nicest theory, but here it is: Yes, the ending was cut for time. Every game has something cut for time, and Obsidian opted to cut a proper ending. And yes, it was done on purpose. Here's why:

Put simply, there are two kinds of gamers, or at least two easy categories in which to toss gamers: Casual Gamers and Hardcore Gamers.

The Casual Gamers will have given up playing NWN2 before they ever reach the non-ending. All they know is that they played it, enjoyed it, and then gave up because another game came out, or they forgot what they were supposed to do, or something like that.

The Hardcore Gamers will see it and complain... but will also shell out their money again for the next game by this company.

It's a win-win for the company. The only people who see the part where you ran out of time and money and had to phone it in are the people who were going to buy your next game anyway.

Worked for KotOR 2, didn't it?

[Corwin]

I think you're correct!!

[magerette]

Argh!!! Just finished the game, and after all the intense fighting at the end, the cinematic cutscenes forcing you onward ever onward building the tension and giving verisimilitude to your in-game struggles and frustrations--(spoiled only by the incredibly irritating NPC AI)--after all this fairly well-done drama and structure, I can't believe that I am expected to take the ending seriously.

Thirty minutes of conversation with Garius, three lines with the ArchEnemy?

The cloak is all that's left--not the platemail, 400 lb Hammer of Ironfirst, or ...I don't know, maybe bodies??

Bevis--I mean, Bevil, becomes a great commander and Shandra's farm becomes a mecca for bored farmers, while the wishy-washy Commander of the Greycloaks trades on my reputation to get elected to the Council?

Jesus Christ on a piece of toast! I don't mind the characters winning and losing at the same time--no, that makes a kind of twisted sense. But the lead-in to the sequel is so heavy-handed that it destroys any feeling of accomplishment--leaving me feeling slightly..used.

HOWEVER...
I did get to smoke Neeshka and Qara--which makes up for a lot. ;)

I really liked this game. Fidelity to traditional rpg elements, attention to detail and a serious attempt to make a good game overcomes a lot, and I am not in the least sorry I played it...so I guess the ending isn't as bad as all that.

And as Patrick points out, I will no doubt buy their next game anyway..because who else is making anything better? **sigh** :)

[Corwin]

Actually, I have high expectations that the modding community will make better 'games', using the NWN 2 toolset!! :)

[magerette]

Yes, the modding community is a tremendous resource. If not for the creative souls out there doing mods and playing with the boundaries of the toolsets, a lot of games would be less. The fan community for the HOMM series is a great example--they continued to keep the game alive for years after the devs went belly-up, and they have made in some cases, better efforts than their modern day successors.
Circle of Eight made ToEE playable and functional with thier patches and mods. Someone I believe did the same for Bloodlines.
And we all know about the NWN community. So hopefully we'll see some community input for NWN2 soon--in addition to the Black Hound. :)

[aries100]

It seems to me even if the ending was cut, probably due to press for time, the
ending (still) has generated a lot of emotions and talk about the ending of NWN2.

Even if I haven't played NWN2 yet, on a general note, I think that the ending in NWN2 is a bit better than the traditional ending where you just save the world - and that's it. I also think that the ending in NWN2 gives way to a very nice expansion pack where one would follow the hero (or heroes) in another adventure.

[Cm]

I am sure that was the intent aries100 it was just the visual they created that could have been a bit better. Some small details added in the rubble would have been nice.

[Acleacius]

Even if they had done a better job on the ending, it still could have been a nice segway to an expansion.
As I look back now, its sort of funny that my ending is still better and still fits perfectly with the new info about the expansion, about the shard coming out of the chest.

It seems when good games with series like NWN and Gothic start having troubles or being rushed they do the worst things possible, is try to do everything themselves.
Instead of asking the communities/customers that care about them for help, (while I dont pretent to speak for everyone), I know I would (did, with the above?) offer help for free.

As usual it proabably boils down to publishers, being unholy and inhuman control freaks!

[talesfromthecrypt]

He, I gotta be one of the few who actually liked the ending.

Don\t get me wrong, the execution was something of a lackluster. The Voice Actor sounded as if he had a flue and did the recording during a 5 minute break between other jobs.

I like the slides on the other hand, but the whole thing kinda lacked drama...it was to short and too hasty, as if the one who was making it just thought...dude lets get over with it ASAP.

BUT
The actual premise of the ending was nice. Everyone complains about cliched happy endings in hollywood movies, but when it comes to games these happy endings suddenly become something good...

The hero dying or dissapearing at the end is a perfectly valid option. Of course it doesn\t make you feel all warm and nice inside...thats not what is supposed to do.
And I thought that the fate of your Fosterfather was rather touching. During the game your relation does not seem always the best, yet he is spending the rest of his days searching for you. Very moving.

Well what can I say more. I liked the idea, didn\t like the execution.

[Rodyn]

Old thread now, but I just finished the OC after several delays.

Straight to the ending then: disappointing final battle (King of Shadows), but trading jibes with garius and seeing some companions drift to the other side was definitely a new and interesting twist. I especially liked Bishop's betrayal of both myself and Garius...I've been trying to get on Bishop's good side to learn more of his story and I was finally rewarded with him coming clean about his past. Ok, he's a sociopathic killer but I thought he was a very well-rounded character and a lot of fun to take along on quests. Neeshka's was not so much a surprise, although in the end I did pass her influence check but she was forced to fight me regardless, despite her annoying behaviour it was a bit sad to watch her being controlled by Garius. Obviously I let Sand blast Qara away...

Call me old fashioned but an all-powerful being consisting of nothing more than shadow (and somehow being able to wear armour...he's shadow!!) just doesn't get my interest peaked. The whole ritual seemed rather pointless as well as it was just another weapon to me, not the ultimate solution: if I had to believe Zheave (?!) obtaining the ritual was paramount to defeating the king...hardly. The god (and epic) weapons, as mentioned in another post, were too much as well (except for the hammer of ironfist, which is a nice relic with a good history attached to it) and always spoil an RPG for me. Throwing some holy water on a +2 longsword and saying a quick prayer is more my style than wielding a obscenely (and still rather dull) enchanted blade.

The only unique weapon I enjoyed using were the true name scrolls, making each reaver battle pretty intense (although the three at the end were a bit frustrating) plus the graphics/voice that went along with reciting from the scrolls was well done I thought.

The final battle was a bit of a let-down then, especially after the whole siege at Crossroad Keep which I enjoyed a lot. The first thought that entered my mind after the King turned huge was: gosh, he looks just like that Got Puff Man from Ghostbusters. But without the benefit of being made out of marshmellow. And whereas during the whole Merdelain Gauntlet area I was on the edge of my seat trying to stay alive, the final fight was pretty uneventful.

The ending then. Don't mind the fact that our fate is unknown, and Daeghun wandering the lands looking for his son was moving as well, but what is UP with the SLIDESHOW?! I realize this is the point of the game where the funds ran dry/they stopped bothering, but nevertheless it's incredibly frustrating. This I expected from Baldur's Gate, 10 years ago, and even then the voice-over was a lot better and the epilogue story more interesting. Remembering other DnD game endings this one ranks right at the bottom.

Great game with a horrible ending simply because you get the feeling no care or thought went into it.

[blatantninja]

I thought it was ok. I liked that it was more than just: "You beat the bad guy! It's over!"

One of my favorite parts of BGII was that at the end of the ToB expansion, it had a short story of what happened to each of your companions that was based on how you interacted with them and what actions you took during the game. I still think it is the best ending, with true closure, of any game I have ever played.

I got the feeling that they tried to do that with NWN2. Unfortunately, they chose the WRONG narrator for it, the voice just didn't work, and while some where cool (like Daegan's), it just seemed like there was not enough thought put into it.

I didn't mind that they more or less killed my character, I think that was kind of original, however they should have had all the companions escaping, then realizing you weren't with them. Maybe a little debate about what they should try to do about it, then based on your influence level on them, they either go their own way or search on their own for your fate.

I have to say though that the way the third Act played out, I was expecting a disappointing ending. The second Act was great, and felt a lot like BGII to me, but I felt the story really went downhill in III.

[curiously undead]

crybabies
finally finished the game last week and am quickly moving through the painstakingly awesome mask of the betrayer.

i'll agree that the last few hours of the game were well below the best parts of the game, but nearly all great things of length usually neither start or finish show. the best books, are often a chore to get into, and endings of greatness are even more difficult to achieve because when emotions and enjoyment are sustained at such a highl level throughout, how can one possibly hope to tie it up all nice and purty.

great games/books/etc force us to keep at it at much more fervous pace, which is also a bane because of the fear as the end approaches and the loss of continuation when were done that apparently is too much a loss of serotonin for some that pleasure turns to pain...

mask of the betrayer is one of the best rpgs i've played however, and as a party rpg second only to anachronox. though i thought the original was great, this is better in nearly every way. darker themes, less companions, better writting, more vivid settings, love the fact that there is no 'big bad guy', the narrotor sounds like joe frank!(confirmed it isn't however), and the music is done by the same guy who did bloodlines.

obsidian continues to rise with each game substantionally, can't wait to see what is next.

[blatantninja]

I'm going to kick off MotB next week, hope I like it as much as you did!

[purpleblob]

I didn't finished game yet but I've cheated and looked up at ending om youtube. I don't like it. It doens't always have to be happy ending but when I've found out someone I like betrays me and also pc finds that person dead in MotB.. I almost cried. Oh, I will reveal who it is. BISHOP. I'm sure most of you have guessed it anyway. He is the best npc in nwn2 and he just had to find peace in his death. Only romance I get is that boring casavir *sigh*

[Maylander]

Actually, you can turn him away from his betrayel if your influence is high enough. Most don't have high enough influence with him, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's not shown in whatever video you saw. :)

Edit: It's possible to turn him slightly regardless of influence, through a certain set of dialogue options, but I believe that was a bug. Normally it takes high influence.

[curiously undead]

there was very little i liked about bishop. picking on poor grobnar all the time just because he doesn't understand humour. i was able to get him to turn away from the battle in the end, though i'm not sure if there is anything that can be done about the situation in crossroad keep is there? purpleblob i'm not sure if you'll like him after that point. sand was the only one who 'turned' on me which was strange considering my high influence with him; mush have been simply a matter of having a higher one with qara i guess. my favourite character dies in the game regardless, but all the characters in the game have their charm and annoyances which make them all the more lifelike in my opinon. kaelyn is my favourite though out of both games as i enjoyed her passion for her mission as well as her demeanor. safira had more depth perhaps but was a bit too emotionless which maybe is partly explained by her back story.

by the way purpleblob you might like gaan in mask of the betrayer as he's a neutral character with his own vengences but unlike bishop he has honor and isn't evil.

[purpleblob]

I don't have MotB yet but I might get it soon...

and I suppose since your fav char dies I'm guessing it is shandra... ;)