Dungeons out, so?

[Dasale]

I didn't knew the release of Dungeons was for that soon, but quote it at Gamersgate, available.

Is anybody played it? I'm quite curious about it.

Not sure if this post is in the right section or should be in non rpg section.

EDIT: Can't believe publishers/editors can do that, Steam version includes more stuff, so they make Gamersgate sells an incomplete game. :-/

Not that I prefer buying at one or the other but it's so weird.

[Dasale]

So I'm close to finish download it, I pick the Steam version just for the few added stuff. But it's the version with the higher price. From price point of view, the game is still on sale at developer site as a preorder sale with a code sending the 9 so soon. But this version doesn't include the few (probably crap) there's in Steam version.

[Rills]

Looking forward to reading your impressions. I am contemplating getting this for my brother for his birthday but I want to see if it gets repetitive which from what I have observed and read could be a possibility.

[Dasale]

Looking forward to reading your impressions. I am contemplating getting this for my brother for his birthday but I want to see if it gets repetitive which from what I have observed and read could be a possibility.

My impressions won't tell you much because I'm a fan of Tower Defense games ie I'll have the look and point of view of a silly hardcore player. But I'll post my feeling anyway, download was rather slow at Steam but now it's 99% and oops nope 100% see you later. :biggrin:

[skavenhorde]

I don't know if you noticed (I only did because you said Steam version contains more stuff), but the homepage for Dungeons says 20 campaign missions and both Steam and Gamersgate says 17. What is up with that? If I buy early I don't get 3 missions?

Either way I'm still getting this because the german demo was great (until the part where I needed to know what the heck I was doing ;)) I'm going to wait a few more days for those extra missions. Although knowing my luck it'll just be a few tutorial missions they were talking about.

[Dasale]

I don't know if you noticed (I only did because you said Steam version contains more stuff), but the homepage for Dungeons says 20 campaign missions and both Steam and Gamersgate says 17. What is up with that? If I buy early I don't get 3 missions?

Either way I'm still getting this because the german demo was great (until the part where I needed to know what the heck I was doing ;)) I'm going to wait a few more days for those extra missions. Although knowing my luck it'll just be a few tutorial missions they were talking about.

Steam edition is a special one, but no it hasn't 3 more missions in the campaign but only one more plus 3 special items (very original, I wonder why this remind me something).

But there are also single maps to play out of the campaign and the special description isn't clear about that, it seems there's also more single maps, not sure, the number of additional single maps isn't mentioned.

For a feedback you'll have to expect it from someone else, it's one more game that seems unable to run on my computer, strangely the problem seems quite close to the one I had with Arcania, after the load I still have the load screen, get some sounds from the game beginning but couldn't get more and keep glued on load screen picture. I think it's my video card, but Steam requirement description doesn't mention anything special about that. The third recent game that couldn't start was Two Worlds 2.

If the game get very good report I could hurry up my computer replacement and not wait The Witcher 2 plus few month to change. I could look at a video card change but that won't be cheap enough to worth it.

[wiretripped]

I'd like to hear some impressions from this game as well.
Anyone?

[Dasale]

Users comment started popup, in Steam forums the louder thread seems to be about the price difference between EU version and USA version, it's right that it's a bit scandalous if numbers I saw are right, the difference is about 55%.

I also see quite stupid user comments that seem expect a Dungeon Keeper clone or a sort of RTS, but its base is Tower Defense and they clearly are unable to appreciate the subtlety of Tower Defense gameplay.

With my misadventures with the games, I launch it quite many times so got the load screens rather often and could see many tips. I'd say it's intriguing, it seems more complicated than are usually Tower Defense games. More complicated doesn't mean better but that's intriguing.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Users comment started popup, in Steam forums the louder thread seems to be about the price difference between EU version and USA version, it's right that it's a bit scandalous if numbers I saw are right, the difference is about 55%.

Like with Drakensang ?

Small price for the U.S. and a higher price for Europe ?
Is this a cross-subsidization ? EU = pay more -> US pay less ?
Or is this simply prejudice against games from the EU ?

This game would seriously be around 40 Euros at retail - are these guys so much accustomed to small prices at steam (which might sometimes even be unjustified), that they aren't willing to pay what retail buyers must pay ?

Okay, retail has handbooks and a proper packaging - but also often DRM …

This is beginning to irritate me.

[Dasale]

I end in not really looking at game prices on one side and on another side buy very cheap games more to buy them than to play them, I mean 1€ to 4€ games.

But in no way I consider the current pricing for digital games to be fair. And feel USA consumers being more in the right mood. With digital plenty costs are highly reduced and I don't agree that the game producer and sometimes shops grab all the margin.

Shops like Gamersgate and Steam offer quite more than a simple sell and bye bye so I agree that if they save many cost like on stocks management, they also have added costs.

But other than that the whole chain for selling digital games is obviously a lot cheaper than for box games, stocks, transports, production cost, and certainly more. Ie boxed version are deluxe and anti ecological.

But box version was still the core of the big market ie AAA games, so psychologically many actors involved in getting money from video games don't want take the risk break the market by showing quite lower prices for the same game digital than boxed, and possibly make many box buyers feel the box price unfair because a lot higher than digital version.

But capitalism and capitalism, I feel PC games are moving to digital, and there's a reason why PC games shells in physical shop has constantly drop down and is now quite small. Sooner or later some major actor will change its strategy and will focus on digital making box versions deluxe versions that cost quite higher than digital versions.

[zadokAllen]

Added costs? Oh well. Who cares, when your revenue for 2010 was one billion god damn dollars (http://www.crowdedbrain.co.uk/games/steam-brings-in-nearly-one-billion-in-revenues-in-2010.html).

[Dasale]

Added costs? Oh well. Who cares, when your revenue for 2010 was one billion god damn dollars (http://www.crowdedbrain.co.uk/games/steam-brings-in-nearly-one-billion-in-revenues-in-2010.html).
Wooo I shouldn't be surprised but I am anyway.

That said I doubt that Steam is involved in higher prices for digital than what it should be. The price of games isn't setup by Steam but by publishers. Also it's Steam that push publishers to make often sales, and I feel that Steam strong adoption of indie games was a in part a marketing image management and in part a strategy plan to put pressure on the market for lower prices through indie games.

[xSamhainx]

Two more days, and I shall have an answer for you my friend... ='.'=

[Maus-san]

Played it with my boyfriend. We got complety bored. Why didn't they at least try to copy some features from Dungeon Keeper 1 or 2, exept looking this the same as DK but giving us *this* messy gameplay? I mean come on, one of over 50 bad examples: for every wall a minion digs, he have to run (!) all the way back and forth to dungeon lord, to give him ~1 gold coin. Even with fast forward they are snile-like. Kinda shamed.

[zakhal]

Users comment started popup, in Steam forums the louder thread seems to be about the price difference between EU version and USA version, it's right that it's a bit scandalous if numbers I saw are right, the difference is about 55%.
.
Euro is 1.3585 dollars yet it costs 55% more? They usually explain the diffecent with the fact that US price is missing taxes (and somtimes EU version has extra costs due to translation). I guess the EU taxes have gone really up lately if they are 55% allready.

This is not the first time steam is charging a lot more from EU players.

[Dasale]

Played it with my boyfriend. We got complety bored. Why didn't they at least try to copy some features from Dungeon Keeper 1 or 2, exept looking this the same as DK but giving us *this* messy gameplay? I mean come on, one of over 50 bad examples: for every wall a minion digs, he have to run (!) all the way back and forth to dungeon lord, to give him ~1 gold coin. Even with fast forward they are snile-like. Kinda shamed.
Lol I haven't played so can't comment, but it's quite clear it's not at all Dungeon Keeper but Tower Defense base. Too bad you didn't read better game descriptions, you would have know that you would not have a refreshed Dungeon Keeper.

Have you ever play some good Tower Defense games? I mean not the vast amount of free browser crap.

[Karmapowered]

To her defence, from what I gathered of the pre-launch trailer, I very much perceived the game as a DK'like too. It actually seemed so DK'like that I made a cross over that game.

You can say I am rather exasperated by the current copy/pasting trends of the gaming industry, turning whatever used to work in the past into fantastic awesome buttonz (tm) marketing fireworks, but with shallow content behind.

It is a kind of manipulation : getting people into buying a game, even before it is released (!), on the premise of illusions, without granting any kind of support in case of bugs, because it forces people to buy the sequels.

It is a despicable scheme, but it works.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

It is a kind of manipulation : getting people into buying a game, even before it is released (!), on the premise of illusions, without granting any kind of support in case of bugs, because it forces people to buy the sequels.

It is a despicable scheme, but it works.

Yes, this is the dark side of marketing.

In my own philosophy, there are at least two or three sides of marketing :

- "honest marketing" or "white markting" - meant to help the customer, to inform him or her
- grey marketing … well, the name says it all …
- "dark marketing" or "black marketing" = using (psychological) tricks to make customers buy things …

Besides, there's also a thing like "Black pedagogy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisonous_pedagogy) … [Black = Schwarz] That's where I have my names from …

And although I'm a natural at marketing (have never been trained, I just have it intuitively), I have never considered getting a job in that area, because I simply find the "dark marketing" unethical … And this is something I just can't stand …

[Gorath]

So did they ever claim that Dungeons would be a Dungeon Keeper clone?

[Karmapowered]

And there are always the ones who refuse to see the trees for the forest :-/

No offence, but please tell me what the following kind of trailer/advertisement is supposed to tell the average player that has played (or at least heard of) Dungeon Keeper before :

http://store.steampowered.com/app/57650/?snr=1_7_7_151_150_1

Where in that page, video and description included (!), did a single word but hint at a "tower defence" game ?

Now, let's compare it to an advertisement for another "tower defence" game :

http://www.popcap.com/flash/product_video.swf?videoFilename=http://images.popcap.com/www/images/product/videos/large/pvz/1036/pvz1.flv

Should we still pretend that the marketing team behind the first trailer did not purposefully invent their game a legacy to Dungeon Keeper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RntjbewkoQc), tricking at least two people here (see a couple of posts above) into buying their game for what it is not ?

I know, some people do not see any issue either with being manipulated, in paying more for games that include less and less content (time wise, quality wise) for example. See DA2, Call of Duty or Dead Space. But hey, if people refuse to admit when manipulation is happening, I can't help it.

As long as it is not the money I have to work for that they're spending.


So did they ever claim that Dungeons would be a Dungeon Keeper clone?



EDIT : This post illustrates perfectly the point I am trying to make about some marketing practices in the current game industry :

Like with Drakensang ?

Small price for the U.S. and a higher price for Europe ?
Is this a cross-subsidization ? EU = pay more -> US pay less ?
Or is this simply prejudice against games from the EU ?

This game would seriously be around 40 Euros at retail - are these guys so much accustomed to small prices at steam (which might sometimes even be unjustified), that they aren't willing to pay what retail buyers must pay ?

Okay, retail has handbooks and a proper packaging - but also often DRM …

This is beginning to irritate me.

[Gorath]

It was a question because I've only ever seen others assume it will be a DK clone.

[Dasale]

Well I can't run the game on my current computer so well I'm not positioned to argue. The point is myself I started be interested only when I heard there was links with Tower Defense because I don't care of Dungeon Keeper that I never played (yeah I'm probably wrong).

But it seems also quite different than standard tower defense, you really build your dungeon, you really lure the heroes (your need attract them)… For the links with Dungeon Keeper it seems there are too, dungeons you build, heroes to stop, and so on… So well is there really no links with Dungeon Keeper?

Is this really a pure Tower Defense so they had to warn you about this? Well perhaps or not. I can't answer this until I could play it.

EDIT: And I hope then that players that got tricked (or think they got tricked) will learn the lesson, don't listen stupidly marketing, read reviews from safer sites, read users comments, don't rush on games, and even worse don't rush on game before they are released. Because if you don't stop to just watch some marketing video and read user comments, it's easy to see links with tower defense in this game. But well often people never learn.

[zakhal]

I assumed too it was DK clone. Especially after looking at the pics.

[Nerevarine]

Played it with my boyfriend. We got complety bored. Why didn't they at least try to copy some features from Dungeon Keeper 1 or 2, exept looking this the same as DK but giving us *this* messy gameplay? I mean come on, one of over 50 bad examples: for every wall a minion digs, he have to run (!) all the way back and forth to dungeon lord, to give him ~1 gold coin. Even with fast forward they are snile-like. Kinda shamed.

I haven't played the game, so I have absolutely no place judging it, but I too am a bit disappointed that they aren't making it more like the DK series - which is a fair comment because I know I'm not the only one who thought they were sort of marketing Dungeons as a "spiritual successor" to DK. I didn't expect a "clone," and they certainly shouldn't have made a clone because it's always a good thing when developers take a classic concept and add innovative new ideas. However, I'm not sure I like all of the new ideas and think that perhaps they are straying a bit too far from the DK roots that inspired them.

Most of all (and again, I haven't played it yet so I hope I don't sound unfair to the game), I'm a bit worried by the core design of the game in that it seems to limit the player's creativity - specifically with the need to make invading heroes happy before killing them off and other such limitations. Why not make a Dungeon game more of a sandbox experience, where you can kill heroes however/whenever you want? I imagine that I would become frustrated with having the game force me to do things a particular way instead of allowing me to build and run a dungeon however I want with only minimal limitations for balance purposes. It's just my own opinion, but I think that more of a sandbox approach would have been a solid evolution of the DK template.

With all that being said, I will certainly keep an open mind and give Dungeons a fair chance because it does look like quite a unique game, and having variety/new ideas is always a good thing in gaming.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Just found this : Collector's Edition of Dungeons, limited to 4000 units, only available at one electronics chain, and that for 70 Euros : http://www.kalypsomedia.com/de/news/index.shtml?pab=1_16

[skavenhorde]

I have played this game and love it. Sure you have the timed entrances with heroes coming it, but in a lot of ways it is very similar to Dungeon Keeper.

At first I was a little P.O.ed at this "prestige" stuff you put in your dungeon which was basically cosmetic things like coffins, skulls etc. But as I found out on the second level that "prestige" fluff that I thought didn't have a use actually does have a use other than just a cool way to design your dungeon. The more prestige you have the more powerful gimmicks (I hate that word, btw) you can get like a prison that holds 4 people or a few other things. I've only played the first couple of levels so I don't know all of the things that you can get.

Even then I thought the prestige items were more like sims furniture, but then I found out that the heroes follow these items. The more powerful the item the more likely it will attract their attention. This got my little rat brain all a tither. I've been coming up with all kinds of ideas on how to make my dungeon as lethal as possible by having the poor fools follow a patch directed by me.

That right there made this game for me. I love building dungeons, always have since I was a kid. Whether it was on graph paper or later on with my Advanced Heroquest and Warhammer Quest board games. My favorite dungeons were ones with creatively placed traps/monsters in them. Now I can make them till my hearts content.

Btw guys this sounds easy, but I've only played up to the second level and I can tell you it's not. The first level was a piece of cake, but after that it gets a lot harder to satisfy those dang heroes. They want to be hurt by monsters and find gold now. A lot more gold than before.

There are also you main quests. Like on the second level I had to "interrogate" some guards and find a way into the kindly wizards basement.

In addition to that there are these "challenges" which you can ignore or try to accomplish. You can get spell scrolls or stats for accomplishing these challenges. It all depends on how difficult they are. For example on map 2 if you collect (I think) 300 gp you get a scroll then 500 gp you get another scroll and 700 gp for the third scroll.

Then there are the more difficult ones that you get stat and skill points on. For example if you accomplish the main mission you will get something like 1 skill point and 3 stats. There are at least 3 other challenges for stat/skill points, but I can't recall what they are at the moment. They change on every new map.

Well I for one love this game and I can see why they billed it as a spiritual successor to Dungeon Keeper. It truly is, imo. It's even more wicked than Dungeon Keeper. You are basically torturing these heroes to get what you want out of them. In DK you only did that to satisfy the Maiden or make a few skeletons.

The pentagrams are ok. At first I couldn't figure out how the hell I was going to get my monsters to attack the heroes AFTER they were happy, but now that I know about the prestige items then all I need to do is set up a clever trap with gold in the beginning a few minor battles along the way and then the most powerful monsters at the end. That's a little difficult right now since I need a certain amount of pentagrams to expand my influence.....

I should explain the difference in the two pentagrams I have right now. There are the vampire bats and the skeletons (On the first map you also had were-rats, but they weren't needed so I never looked at them that closely. They aren't available on the second map either)

Vampire Bats are very weak, but they expand your influence more so than other creatures (so far). Skeletons are stronger, but your influence doesn't grow as much as with Vampire Bats. So basically you need to expand your empire first with bats and then plop down a few skeletons at key points within your dungeon.

I should also note that I'm almost finished with the second map and didn't open the heroes portal until almost the very end of this map. There were tons of gold veins in this dungeon. I tunneled that out and did all the quests with just my Dungeon Keeper....... err Dungeon Lord. I like having a real evil bastard to control this time around instead of a floating hand.

The quality of dungeons are very limited right now because I don't really have that much of an arsenal and it's basically the tutorial levels, but I expect that to change very soon.

Funny I was just going to post a few sentences telling how you all were being silly, but there you go. A "first impression" of the game.

[wiretripped]

Thanks for those insights, Skavenhorde.
Keep us posted on how the game progresses.

[xSamhainx]

Keeper Skaven-
Yeah, the word "gimmicks" was a poor choice of game element naming on their part, especially w/ the charges leveled against this game of being one big gimmick in itself. I also think the "mr sidekick" thing is lame too…. but I appreciate the fact that theyre trying to be humorous. Quit being a sourpuss, Sammy. Lighten up a bit and chuckle at the bad jokes.

That said, I like what I've played so far. I'm only a couple levels in myself, but it's fun since like you said - i love dungeons. Being in control of a dungeon is even better.

By the end of the weekend I should have a better picture of this game, I plan to spend a lot of time w/ it.

[Dasale]

Just found this : Collector's Edition of Dungeons, limited to 4000 units, only available at one electronics chain, and that for 70 Euros : http://www.kalypsomedia.com/de/news/index.shtml?pab=1_16

It's cool I like collector editions even for non perfect games, alas it's too bad it's a German version.

And thanks skavenhorde and xSamhainx for the feedback, I already have the game I can't play but it's always cool to read positive feedback about a game, it helps start with it with a more positive feeling.

EDIT: Downloading an update of the game and my graphic card is concerned, that's reactivity ;) and I cross my fingers that it fix it for my computer!

[skavenhorde]

Just a quick update. I've been playing this game most of today. The trick to this game is to have a kill zone for your heroes so you don't have to worry about them.

Dasale mentioned that there is a lot of micromanagement in the other Dungeons newsbit and they would be right IF they didn't properly manage their dungeon. On the later levels there are more than one hero entrance open right from the start. If you try to deal with them all at once you'll end up with a lot of running around. Instead concentrate on one entrance. Set up your armory, library and gold somewhat in the beginning of their entrance, but have some powerful prestige items to lure them forward once they've got their goods. You could throw a few in those rooms to lure them in there as well, but that's not really needed.

Here is where the tricky bit comes in. You only have so many "population" points. In the beginning most of the points are spent on expanding your empire and gaining control of more monster dens. Once you have a few to spare set down some cheap monster pentagrams so they can fulfill they masochistic need or their need for violence. Put some more powerful prestige items to keep them moving forward and here is where you have your killzone. By this point they should have at least half of their needs fulfilled. I put down three or four different monster types pentagrams in a room (ideally around a corner) and that is where the heroes die.

Rinse and repeat with the next entrance. Don't try to create another killzone because you normally won't have enough populations points to do it twice. Just keep those powerful prestige items pointing towards the killzone.

That takes a lot of the micromanagement out of your hands since your monsters will kill the heroes and your goblins will pick them up and throw them in the prison.

With that said I didn't get a lot of heroes maxed out. It wasn't really needed. But it was very satisfying the first time the needs of a level 20 hero was maxed out and I killed her for 823 soulpoints. Then threw her in the prison. Being evil has never been so much fun :D

Keeper Sammy, any helpful hints for taking on the game. Right now I'm taking on another keeper. I hope it isn't you, but if it is you'll have deluxe accommodations in one of my nicer prisons :P

Edit: I forgot to mention why I had to take on one entrance at a time. You're goblins can't dig that fast or rather they dig quickly, but running to your dungeon heart or your dungeon lord takes a lot of time. A quick way to get the armory and library set up is to have your lord stand right next to the area you want dug out to become a room. If not they'll be running to hell and back to get a 4x4 or at least 3x3 square dug out.

[Dasale]

The last fix allowed me play it alas I have regular crash, and the crash rate is too high to make it enjoyable. I could progress through saving often but those crash also cause a computer restart so it's rather tedious, too bad.

Yes I noticed the goblins come running around the dungeon lord. About negative micromanagement, I read one post mentioning that killing yourself a hero gives a significant soulpoint bonus.

For now I haven't really enter in the game because of the too numerous crashes. So I have no good/fair feedback, but one thing is that I found commands confusing and noticed that once more some commands shortcuts can't be changed, I can't believed this is still happening in a game released in 2011. I also felt the graphics wasn't that cool (nor bad). But for sure it seems worth digging it more. I hope a next crash will make it more stable. The problem is they are rather violent crash so apparently no error logs to report (unlike older crashes I had before last update).

[Alrik Fassbauer]

It's cool I like collector editions even for non perfect games, alas it's too bad it's a German version.

I'd be interested - if it wasn't SO expensive !

70 Euros is quite a lot even for Collector's Editions !

But ... on the other hand ... I think Risen & Gothic 3 had similar CE prices ...

[Dasale]

...Dasale mentioned that there is a lot of micromanagement in the other Dungeons newsbit and they would be right IF they didn't properly manage their dungeon...
Suddenly the game stopped crash so I could really start play it. It's first real dungeon, where are bats, rats and skeletons.

I admire you get through it without to notice it, myself it's been a pain of micromanagement to constantly run after either heroes, or monsters skeletons destroying the dungeon. I could build only 3 prestige item and didn't notice any attract heroes further in the dungeon. I end never find the time to conquer the pentagram that probably allow have skeletons.

That first feeling or real play is quite bad but it's clear I have more to dig to understand better how it is working. Will go try again from start this first real map.

[Dasale]

So I finished the 4th map and have started the 5th (the first two are just short maps to introduce some aspects of the game). The 3rd map isn't yet a true map, you start with big chests of gold close to entrance and can't build anything but few prestige items that can't change the play of the map.

So this 3rd map end to involve much more micro management. I bet many players stopped at this map and quit the game thinking it was designed with a constant micro management in mind.

The fourth map is the first real map even if you still can't build so many thing. At least you have the essential, two type of dens but you can't build that many pentagrams that summon monsters because there's only 2 dens source in the whole map providing you only 20 population points.

I don't think you can apply in this 4th map the strategy that explains skavenhorde. You can improve your dens up to level 5, but heroes start at level 6 and will most probably level up some time, in my game they was level 8. Heroes also can use healing between two fights, so it's difficult to have them killed regularly by your standard monsters.

But in this map you can build another general tactic. After some time heroes will get bored continue explore the dungeon and then will start move to attack the heart of the dungeon. So as skavenhorde explained you build path so heroes of different type cumulate the maximum satisfaction level (soul points level), and then at some points will move to the dungeon heart. So just let your lord here to stop them.

At the end of this map you get a new feature, the dungeon heart protector, it's a strong monster you can summon to guard the dungeon heart. This will free your lord from this task at least most of the time.

In this 4th map I got only one hero that escaped, so certainly only one hero fully satisfied. Alas I could not know because I only quote the message of hero escaping. I feel it's a point that should be improved in the game, get a better signal about any hero reaching full satisfaction. You have a penal listing all heroes in dungeon and you see satisfaction level, life level and activity, but it's not a tool you can check often enough to use it to detect a hero reaching full satisfaction.

Despite I have now some crashes, the crash rate isn't too high and by saving often it spoil me a part of the fun but I can appreciate the game anyway. I haven't see yet the game at its full potential, and the crashes blacken the picture but I'm fully satisfied of this buy. For now I have the feeling it is more on the sim side than the strategy side but it succeed well capture my interest anyway.

[xSamhainx]

Well… it's slightly annoying, evil but good looking, and strangely addictive. Reminds me of a girl I once knew ='.'=

Finally a dungeon sim worth playing! I'm not in the least put off or offended by the Dk'ness (or lack thereof) of the game, I'm actually fine w/ them doing something different while borrowing elements from one of my favorite games. Doesnt everyone do that anyway???
Also, as mentioned earlier the first few maps like most games are not fully-fleshed out levels. So stick w/ it if you get initially bored and are only early into the game, it gets better.

I'm speccing my Lord heavy on the melee damage, poison arrow, and speed. I can run around the dungeon and assassinate heroes when need be, and escape quickly if I need to. Seems like a good build so far.

I like running around in 3rd person, taking down specific heroes, helping my minions, and just cruising around my dungeon checking things out. I dont like the fact that your management capabilities are limited in 3rd person however, that kinda sucks. If I have to list another grievance, it's the fact that your monsters do not change appearance or even give me so much as a sparkly *DInG!* when they level up. The skells should all don spiky pauldrons after level 5 or something, you know

[Dasale]

It's far to be the perfect game and for me/for my computer it crashes a lot too often. But I don't play such game everyday and few after to have started it, I stick with it and stopped play anything else.

For the monsters level up, they didn't add a ding because you level them up yourself manually so I wonder why you want a ding. For the appearance change, for sure that would be a nice detail, but it's not an AAA game, it's expect a bit too much and budget was better spend elsewhere I think.

Have you played 7th level, the Castle? I have there missing textures and I am hesitant to re install the whole game.

[xSamhainx]

I'm just lamenting the fact that there's nothing to differentiate them from the earlier incarnations, or even the event. Being that theyre making fun of RPG elements sometimes, you'd thing they'd seize the chance to give a token level-up *ding!* when monsters are taken to the next level or something.

I have not gotten to 7 yet, I'm still on 6. Been drinking too much, too late in the evening lately. Impossible for me to play any games once I have a buzz, I'll fall straight asleep!

[Dasale]

Well I suppose many points could be improved, myself I would like that many actions would be possible during pause, mainly set digging points and place prestige items and special rooms items. Also building points set should be visually more clear. Also it's just a feeling and it's not a fair one because I haven't played enough of the game nor have seen all the elements, but I feel the core gameplay should have a better tuned mechanism. From what I have seen most of the distinctive gameplay elements of the maps of the campaign comes from elements not really related to the core gameplay but from external elements requiring some special management. It is working for me like that but I wish more should come from the real management of the dungeons, heroes and monsters.

I just finished the map 7 despite the missing textures, and not a surprised I have the same problem with the map 8 that I checked quickly. Well it's playable anyway but I doubt it's not a big blunder from the dev. To be sure I uninstalled the game and installed it again, same texture problem. The only good point is I didn't crash during map 7 and cross my fingers in hope that the random crash I had has stopped.

The sets of items, monsters, many textures change when your boss change ie at beginning of map 7. It's not only graphic changes because it's also balance changes. For example in this set prestige items cost much more soul points, and monsters are different and need be discovered. There's also new elements with traps that are now available.

One more game for which it's too bad there's so many technical problems at release and some players met even more than I did. But well even if it's not the game of the year it's a cool one anyway and sort of refreshing.

[skavenhorde]

Anyone else getting more souls than they can use? After a certain point they become pointless.

Maybe they should have limited the amount of heroes that enter your dungeon instead of an endless supply of them. That would have driven me to be more careful with how "happy" they are when they are captured. As it is now I can hardly be bothered with it. I just try to make my killzone and throw a few baubles in front of them.

Although they do get a little pissy at times because my dugeons aren't that lucrative so they'll attack my dungeon heart, but that's ok. My killzone is normally near my dungeon heart. I like throwing at least three pentagrams in the room right before my dungeon heart. That will slow down the champions that come as well as killing off any "normal" heroes.

If they kill all of the monsters in that room then in the next one is my guardian. By the time the champions get to him they'll be killed in a matter of moments and forget about normal heroes. They don't stand a chance against that guy.

[Dasale]

I'm at map 12 and yes I also felt that in most maps you get plenty soul at some point of the map. But if you put put the cursor above the head at top center you get the current bonus your character get from prestige, possibly you could build more to reach the max which is 400%, I don't think I ever reach this max but also it's not necessary. Perhaps at hard level this is different.

The difficulty level is an important element for the soul income rate when it's monsters that kill heroes. There's a small malus at easy level, quite important at normal level and big at hard level.

I didn't used that often a trick like you explain but did in map 11 to concentrate on fight agaisnt the boss. I didn't used a room but just thrown a rows of pentagram or more precisely a cross at entrance of Dungeon Heart room.

About the soul which is a part of the Sim, the gameplay of the game could let think it is centered on the Sim aspects but in fact the gameplay is centered on the Dungeon Lord control. For sure it's a mix but the Sim and resource management don't build much of the challenge of the maps, the challenges and the main source of maps diversity come from elements deeply linked with the control of the Dungeon lords. The Sim part including organize your dungeon are more complementary parts to help manage the challenge elements of the map that are mainly linked to control of the dungeon lord. At least it's my feeling after a bit more than 40 hours of play and I'm now at map 12 not yet played.

Also there's a link with the spirit of TD by providing static elements to the player and clearly many newbies trying Dungeons seem just enable to appreciate this sort of approach. But it's not at all TD because the game wasn't designed so you organized heroes killing through a complex setup of elements on their road.

I enjoy the game because of its pace and its refreshing originality, but even if I forget the bugs problems (mainly crashes that seems have stopped to occur for me) I don't think it's a great game, just an interesting one with a good originality. In all cases, for me, it's enough to be a great fun.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I played the demo last Tuesday, and I must say that I felt a bit underwhelmed ... I found the game nice, overall, but I couldn't understand parts of its mechanics, and found the game - for me - boring after a while ... Perhaps I didn't understand everything ?

Everything came down for me into luring heroes into "my" dungeon, battle skeletons gone loose an kill all heroes once they felt good.

That' all I understood there, hence it became kind of vboring to me. Especially with this strange limitiation to build new "monster spawning points" which I couldn't understand at all.

[Dasale]

I won't be able to help because I haven't played the demo so I can't figure if you get the right picture or not for the level you played. The point is the design of the level can makes the game quite different.

For curiosity I'll give a try to the demo. The only point I can highlight is that it isn't like any game I know and the gameplay design direction is a bit strange. But myself I enjoy.

Nope it's not a dungeons sim, not even a sort of Theme park revisited to use the theme of Fantasy and Dungeon. There's no real link with Tower Defense nor with Dungeon Keeper. It's not a Diablo clone, nor a resource management game.

You have various resources and tools at your disposal, some of them are related to a sort of dungeon sim and dungeon building, some related to resource management and few links with a game like Theme park, few tools are related to a TD approach like using traps or monsters pentagrams. But all of that are tools, the core is about managing your dungeon lord to achieve the quests and beat the maps.

And you also have elements directly related to your Dungeon Lord like a class management, scrolls, skills and spells, mana and HP. Also your prestige level increased through building prestige items that use the soul resource you get from heroes, can increase a lot your attributes making your Dungeon Lord stronger. I bet this description will just puzzle you and won't help, but I can't do better. :)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

What you wrote, I've figured all these things already out myself. ;)

My mistake was maybe to assume there was some kind of intellectual challenge in it ? ;)

"Dungeons" is not a bad game. Not at all. It's just that it - so to say - doesn't catch me ...

[Dasale]

I checked quickly the demo, couldn't play it because it hasn't the patch making the game compatible with my video card. But a quick check to the contents shows it's the first two maps and a bit of the introduction.

The first map doesn't figure at all the gameplay of the game. Not sure why they choose use such map, you don't have much to build nor have many choices, items already placed at start put you in a position to not be able to control the map and it will tend make you run constantly run from one side to another side.

But the second map is a bit more like the gameplay is, but your description <<Everything came down for me into luring heroes into "my" dungeon, battle skeletons gone loose an kill all heroes once they felt good.>> isn't at all a description of the gameplay because the purpose of the game isn't that.

For the challenge and thinking, well perhaps it's age and I'm becoming a bit idiot or perhaps I forget that I have always been, but well I played map 12, and still have to figure how beat it. And some maps caused me similar problems and I had to replay them few time before to figure a right approach. But well modern games learn you apply minimal thinking in gaming so even minimal challenge seems now like exceptional gaming.

But well I'm not sure it worth try more the game if the second map just bored you, for the first map forget it, it isn't significant.

[xSamhainx]

The more that I play it, the more it bores me. The most fun that I have is running around as my dungeon lord, checking out my dungeon and helping my minions kill adventurers. Unfortunately, even "Lord Mode" is lacking. And that stupid horn that sounds every time an adventurer enters the dungeon bugs the living shit out of me.

I find myself quitting and firing up DK2 for some real dungeon fun.

Meanwhile, I'm on the level of DK2 (second time ive played this level cuz it's so fun) where you get that massive rush 20 mins into the game, then you have to beat the enemy keeper Asmodeus. Good times, cant say that I ever get bored and my games of DK2 drag on and on. Dungeons just feels hollow, it doesnt seem like there's much there when it all shakes out.

color me disappointed

[Dasale]

I played few maps of DK2 and it's not at all relevant to bring it here, the gameplay of both have zero relationship. For DK2 the only feeling I got was that Majesty 1 was a hugely better game. :)

[xSamhainx]

zero relationship? My friend, blood is the true relationship here.

I'd argue (as you'll see here) that there's actually more of a relationship with DK than many games within a certain accepted "genre", such as FPS RTS MMORPGTRPS etc. Theyre part of the dark brotherhood of "Eeeevil overlord" style games, the others being well… Overlord, and to a greater extent Dungeon Keeper (for obvious reasons). To a lesser extent Evil Genius (since I know that one's coming), but I'm talking more about fantasy evil, here. Elf and Dwarf and halfling-killing evil. They dont come along very often, but when they do damn sure - theyre going to be compared to their bretheren.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not feeling ripped off that this is not DK3. Kalypso seemingly is the only one who DIDNT say it was. I know full well what I bought that rainy evening was pretty much what Dungeons is. That doesnt suddenly make everything good, however. I'm sorry, the game's kinda boring. DK is just the nice comfy underground lair that I fall back into, probably because I got re-hooked preparing for the launch of Dungeons….

[Dasale]

DK2 : you dig path to fixed pentagram that spawn troops you don't choose. You dig rooms to host, manage troops or train them and so on. Then your troops wanderer randomly and will fights enemy. You can drag one troop per one troop to put it somewhere, lol seriously I don't consider this gaming element because it is so ridiculous and boring. You dig to get gold or some special items or build path to reach somewhere and manage tactic.

That's it, at least from few first maps. So with DK you get a RTS where you don't control troops and manage them as resources and dig path to organize you.

Dungeons has zero links to RTS, so links with DK are purely thematic elements and details, not at all the gameplay. On another way Majesty 1, has a lot of links to DK2 but also it is hugely better from any point of view. One terrible element of comparison of DK2 with Majesty 1 is how DK2 sim is a pathetic boring garbage.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Dungeons reminded me a bit of "Evil Genius". Some things are similar there.

[xSamhainx]

Wow, Dasale. No love for the DK

You obviously not played enough of it to have any sort of informed opinion on it. You do get to choose what monsters spawn in your dungeon portal, it's influenced by the variety of rooms that you build. Did i say variety of rooms? That's right, everything from lair and hatchery, to casino, torture chamber, workshop, etc...

And once you build the rooms, the creatures come and work in the rooms - trolls work in the workshop, warlocks research spells in the library, mistresses torture adventurers in the torture chamber, etc. Functional rooms, not just a series of nigh-meaningless trinkets strewn about w/ practically no ryme or reason. Not only that, your minions rest in their lairs, they eat, etc...

Dk is more than you make it out to be, my advice (as with this game) is to try playing past the tutorial levels, the game gets better. Unfortunately, where DK keeps expanding, Dungeons just becomes more tedious.

[skavenhorde]

That's the anti-gospel truth keeper Samhain,

As much as I would have like to LOVE this game, I just can't. It's an ok game, but it is missing something that DK had in spades, ROOMS!!!! For this one we got 3 rooms and a bunch of prestige stuff.

While Dungeons still isn't that bad, I tend to get bored rather quickly…..put pentegram down, build armory, build library, sprinkle in some prestige, throw treasure down, put another pentagram down, rinse and repeat.

What would have helped a lot was a few more rooms. I don't care if it was like DK or not a few more rooms would have helped this game immensely.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Why don't you tell Kalypso your impressions ?

They are relatively quick in improving things - like with Tropico 3.

[Dasale]

…..put pentegram down, build armory, build library, sprinkle in some prestige, throw treasure down, put another pentagram down, rinse and repeat..
I seriously doubt you beat some maps just doing that mindlessly.

And for DK and DK2, I haven't removed them yet so yes I'll give them another go, but they suffer a lot of the direct comparison with Majesty 1, and in this case it's a full direct comparison which is possible... when want make a game not at all DK be DK is... weird.

I even prefer a lot Majesty 2 than what I have seen of DK2. For DK1 the angle view and interface was very unpleasant so I gave up too soon. Both (DK1&2) share a high level of confusion and lack of clarity that I don't like at all.

[skavenhorde]

I seriously doubt you beat some maps just doing that mindlessly.

Did I say mindlessly? No, I did not. If you really want to get technical about it then a lot of the later maps it would be UPGRADING libraries/armories because some are already built. Other than that I build up one corridor at a time while expanding. I've done ok with that strategy.

I just get bored with three rooms. Where's the fun it? I want a freaking torture chamber at least. Sure the prisons could be considered a torture chamber, but it's not the same thing.

Oh well, the game is still not that bad. Just a bit more diversity in the rooms would have been perfect or take away the endless supply of souls/gold to make it a bit more challenging. I just have to not get overwhelmed while building up my treasure/souls.

One could always hope for an expansion that adds a new type of room :)