Gothic 3 - Review @ G4

[Dhruin]

A pretty balanced review (http://www.g4tv.com/xplay/reviews/1389/Gothic_3.html) of Gothic 3 is up at G4 with a score of 3/5. Lambasted for the bugginess and praised for the overall design, here's one of the positive bits:
We’ve read for months just how mind-blowing Oblivion is, so here’s something--Gothic 3 may be even better. After you’ve played Oblivion for a dozen hours, I dare you not to notice how Bethesda’s magnum opus starts frittering away depth for breadth. Oblivion may be visually jaw-dropping and gi-normous, but once you’ve scoped a few of its dungeons, churches, taverns, guilds, forests, and hellish alternate dimensions, you’ve pretty much done them all.
Gothic 3 on the other hand maintains a handcrafted distinctness that’s stitched into every last inch of its capacious go-anywhere game spaces, from the overhanging pine-draped cliff tops sheltering decrepit strongholds, to the vast honeycombed grottoes concealing an ostensible ecology of subterranean critters. Imagine a more deliberate, less random version of Oblivion without the beautiful but often empty-headed characters and look-alike locations and you’re glimpsing Gothic 3.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=3780)

[Dr. A]

I can't believe it... A semi-major review site saying Gothic 3 may be better than the big O?

Excuse me while I go hide in the basement and buckle myself in for the end of the world

[the_oracles_cave]

he's still wrong though.

[Lethal Weapon]

The same site gave Oblivion 5/5 so you can come out of the basement. :)

I wouldn't call it a semi-major site either, their number of reviews seems to be pretty limited. I enjoyed the video review though, for its humour if for nothing else. The review itself was fair, although its hard for me to understand how would anyone describe Oblivion as having visually jaw-dropping graphics and especially beautiful character models. G3' graphics are way superior if you play the game with everything maxed out.

Regarding combat, I really don't want to start another discussion here, but it seems to me that the problem is more about balancing and tweaking than the core system itself. And if you play at the easier difficulty settings, the game encourages you to disregard most of the special attacks.

Spell effects are also way better in Gothic. At any rate, I'm enjoying G3's combat much more than Oblivion's hit-block-hit-block + rocket launchers. Maybe if sufficient time passes and G3 is properly patched and an expansion is made, most gaming sites will come to recognize what gamers already know.

[txa1265]

he's still wrong though.

About what? And how?

Oh - noticed this is Matt Peckham, the same guy from the 1Up NWN2 review imbroglio and who gave G3 a 5/10 in his 1Up review.

[BillSeurer]

"without the beautiful but often empty-headed characters and look-alike locations"

Huh. Gothic3 is FILLED with empty headed characters (who wander around mumbling to themselves) and look-alike locations. In that respect it is little different than Oblivion.

[Dr. A]

About what? And how?

Oh - noticed this is Matt Peckham, the same guy from the 1Up NWN2 review imbroglio and who gave G3 a 5/10 in his 1Up review.

Holy crap, you're right. Matt "Rebel Without A Cause" Peckam...

What's with him anyway? His NWN2 review was ridiculous.

[txa1265]

"without the beautiful but often empty-headed characters and look-alike locations"

Huh. Gothic3 is FILLED with empty headed characters (who wander around mumbling to themselves) and look-alike locations. In that respect it is little different than Oblivion.

Yeah, but the ones in Gothic world are more interesting for some reason. I think:
- they are quirky in mannerism and speech.
- they speak in fragments that seem like you're catching parts of a conversation. In Oblivion it feels like they try for the speech to actually make sense - which actually makes it feel more like nonsense to me.

[Jabberwocky]

The one aspect of Gothic 3 in which I argue was NOT carefully "hand-crafted" is the loot. I mean, I open up a chest and actually get excited when there is NOT some fire arrows, a booze bottle, a couple of waters and a loaf of bread.

[TheMadGamer]

Oh - noticed this is Matt Peckham, the same guy from the 1Up NWN2 review imbroglio and who gave G3 a 5/10 in his 1Up review.

I noticed that myself. He's either a little insane or his writing is hugely influenced by his mood of the day.

[txa1265]

I noticed that myself. He's either a little insane or his writing is hugely influenced by his mood of the day.

Or maybe a bit of both ;) It is interesting - I'm not sure how a contract writer like him would play the games in terms of writing two reviews two months apart. When I do multi-site reviews I always simul-write ... actually the one I'm doing of Final Fantasy III for my upcoming article here is the biggest time-shift yet ... almost a month.

[BillSeurer]

Yeah, but the ones in Gothic world are more interesting for some reason. I think:
- they are quirky in mannerism and speech.
- they speak in fragments that seem like you're catching parts of a conversation. In Oblivion it feels like they try for the speech to actually make sense - which actually makes it feel more like nonsense to me.

Oh yeah, the mannerisms. People in Gothic3 don't move like real people. When they talk they move their arms in bizzaro ways that appear to be anatomically impossible. And that's not including when they wave their arm through the wall or the head of the guy standing next to them (or you).

And as for the speech snippets, well, I think they be better if they just left them out. If you are standing there doing something and you hear two people "talking" it reminds me of the alkies I used to see while waiting for the bus downtown. Kinda creepy. In Obilivion the little speech snippets you overhear really do make sense but get repetitive after a bit.

(PS, I *like* Gothic 3, but it's even more quirky than Oblivion as befits the quirkyness of its ancestors I guess)

[BillSeurer]

The one aspect of Gothic 3 in which I argue was NOT carefully "hand-crafted" is the loot. I mean, I open up a chest and actually get excited when there is NOT some fire arrows, a booze bottle, a couple of waters and a loaf of bread.

Definitely random. And a lot of the terrain while it LOOKS hand crafted is randomly, or at least by-machine, placed. Every once in a while you find something that is out of place.

[Lethal Weapon]

@BillSeurer

This is maybe the most idiotic criticism of G3 i have come across. Comparing the 3D varied landscape of G3 with O's flat sameness. Or the real like NPCs with Oblivion's walking signposts. Lol.

[Cormac]

This is maybe the most idiotic criticism of G3 i have come across. Comparing the 3D varied landscape of G3 with O's flat sameness. Or the real like NPCs with Oblivion's walking signposts. Lol.

Flat sameness ? NPCs that are no more than signposts ? You havent played Oblivion.

And about G3's combat: the main reason it's broken is that the AI is completely retarted. Adversaries let you fill them with arrows without reacting, a large band of orcs gives you less trouble than one wolf or one bloodfly. . . LOL indeed.

[Lethal Weapon]

Or it maybe that we play different games. I rarely get into trouble when facing a single wolf or bloodfly, on the other hand a large band of orcs gives me lots of trouble, especially when there is a caster or a ranger in the midst.

Why is Oblivion not flat? Did I miss any mountains? Or any unique landscape? With its own unique vegetation and the like?

And when was the last time you saw someone cooking in Oblivion? Last time I checked the guild members were standing motionless staring the walls.

You're right about one thing though. I couldn't stand playing this game more than a few hours. Pretty sad since I fell for the hype and bought it the day it came out.

[Cormac]

I couldn't stand playing this game more than a few hours.

There's the rub. You may not have liked the game, which is of course fine, but the criticisms you've leveled on OB in your previous posts become irrelevant if you admit not having played it for any real length of time. You'd have noticed the mountains, then.

[Moriendor]

Why is Oblivion not flat? Did I miss any mountains?

Yes, you did. Like the entire Northern part of Cyrodiil which only makes up about 25% of the game world at least.

Or any unique landscape? With its own unique vegetation and the like?

Yup. Obviously not played any of the quests that "teleported" you to the unique worlds. And not gotten very far in the main plot, huh? Because then you'd have been to an island that was very different from the rest of Cyrodiil.

And when was the last time you saw someone cooking in Oblivion?

That one is true. The NPC schedules and activities are much better fleshed out in Gothic III.

Last time I checked the guild members were standing motionless staring the walls.

Then you didn't check very thoroughly because they do have schedules as well and will occasionally go to the library of the guild hall to study books or practice casting spells (or fighting with dummies or dueling each other) or go to eat dinner/breakfast etc.

You're right about one thing though. I couldn't stand playing this game more than a few hours.

One can tell. Though it sounds like you should've said "minutes", not "hours" because to not even notice the mountains takes a lot of ignorance ;) .

Pretty sad since I fell for the hype and bought it the day it came out.

Aawww... crap :biggrin: .

Don't get me wrong. I like the Gothic series better than the TES series including Oblivion but the mindless bashing of Oblivion is really stupid. Especially from people like you who very obviously don't even have a clue what they are talking about due to lack of any first hand experience with Oblivion. Tune out from the Codex for a few days to get rid of at least some of your bias and then educate yourself about Oblivion by actually playing the game. Then talk. It will make you look less stupid if you bash the game for things it does actually deserve to be bashed for ;) .

[txa1265]

Oblivion is a *gorgeous* world with plenty of variety and nuance in the landscape and details.

I still think the NPC's are terrible - I can't stand seeing 15 of them bumping into each other in an inn spouting nonsense.

[Lethal Weapon]

Hmm. The first thing I did when I got out of prison was to steal a horse and head north. I didn't see any 'real mountains' like tall, unreachable ones. I talked to a few NPCs and their idiotic responses got me worried. But I kept on.

I stopped playing the game when I discovered that the second Oblivion gate was identical to the first and somehow the monsters were of the same exact difficulty, despite the fact that I have leveled up a couple of times. I recently reinstalled to try out some mods, but the game again failed to catch my interest.

My main problem with Oblivion is not about its graphics, its scaling or its NPCs however, its about how linear it feels and how the various quests are unrelated. If by roleplaying we also imply 'choices and consequences' I find it hard how one could term this game as an RPG. And as an action game, well, there are simply better action games.

[edit]

@Moriendor

How can one keep on playing a game that doesn't like? And why are the reasons that someone doesn't like a game invalid? And how did you get the idea that I come from the Codex? Unless everyone who criticizes Oblivion is a Codexer, in which case I must hurry registering an account.

[JDR13]

Can you guys please stay on topic and not turn this into another G3 vs Oblivion flame-a-thon?!

[Dhruin]

I think what some people mean is there are no escarpments, crags and cliffs - Oblivion's "mountains" are tall round hills with steeply sloped sides.

[Acleacius]

I would have to saw I have never seen such increable geo-architecture as in Gothic series PB are masters of this among other things.

I would disagree oblivion is gorgous out of the box, as a matter of fact even the water looks crappy though it's been many months since I ahve played it I can't think of a single area that didn't need to be modded in oblivion.

As an example the characters in Bloodlines looked much better until they are modded and this maybe have something to do with how well expressions, emotions and facial feature were handled, iirc.

Also it's been awhile but Far Cry did architecture better, plus the vegetation and forest were better done, than oblivion though they weren't as updated obviously with things like speedtree, at least irc atm.

Half-Life 2 and FEAR had much better looking character skins as well.

As a matter of fact I can't think of anything in out-of-the box oblivion which was better than any of these other titles and this includes G3.

The main thing I think many forget and this includes some reviewers is G3 has been broken for the most part and the vast majority include mods when accessing oblivion against other titles which it not a rational thing to do. ;)

[Moriendor]

Hmm. The first thing I did when I got out of prison was to steal a horse and head north. I didn't see any 'real mountains' like tall, unreachable ones.

Then you didn't go far enough. Head to Bruma and further N from there. You will find very tall mountains with snow-covered tops and everything.

@Moriendor

And why are the reasons that someone doesn't like a game invalid?

Where did I say that the reasons why you don't like the game are invalid? I didn't. Please stop making up stuff.
You just had an extremely bad streak of luck in your post where you listed your reasons why you dislike Oblivion. All of the things you listed (with the exception of NPCs not cooking as in G3) were factually(!) wrong. That's why I said that if you decide to bash Oblivion that you should at least get your facts straight before you mindlessly attack the game for untrue things.
Just to give you another example: What you did is like bashing BMW for making crappy food (while they are in reality a car manufacturer, of course). Your criticism of Oblivion made zero sense because your claims were simply untrue.
Otherwise you can flame and bash Oblivion all day long. I don't care and I will probably even agree on a lot of possible complaints. Different people = different opinions. That's OK. But please make sure that you get your facts straight next time. Thanks!:)

And how did you get the idea that I come from the Codex? Unless everyone who criticizes Oblivion is a Codexer, in which case I must hurry registering an account.

Please accept my humblest apologies if you aren't a Codex forums member but your post sounded 100% like the typical, mindless, uninformed copy & paste Oblivion bash job from over there :) .

[Lethal Weapon]

Out of respect and returning the favour to JDR13 this is going to be my last post about Oblivion in this thread. After all there is another thread (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1148) about the topic in this site, reading which you may be surprised to see that my critique of Oblivion is not all that different than many of the regulars' here, many of them also being unable to play the game past a few hours. Unless they come from the Codex too.

Regarding the Oblivion 'mountains' I think Dhruin has already explained it quite well.

Apologies accepted.