The Best Elder Scolls Game?

[Dhruin]

Skyrim is almost certain to dominate the RPG landscape in the latter part of the this year, so it's time to ask the best in the series so far.

I've included Battlespire and Redguard but not expansions or portable titles.

[ikbenrichard]

iam glad to see that iam not the only one that found morrowind THE best.

[Roi Danton]

For me it's defiantly Morrowind. It has the same elements of all the TES games (most of which I don't like very much) but it was a very interesting place to explore and visit. The art style is just fantastic.

[bazmod]

I voted for Daggerfall, although I'm sure my memories of that game are mostly sentimental. Morrowind is probably the best overall I just got the most enjoyment out of Daggerfall :)

[Strafe]

Morrowind for sure.

[sjett]

Oblivion for me by a hair over Morrowind. Played Morrowind for years and loved it, but prefer Oblivion's combat and voiced dialogue. I also enjoyed Arena. I played Daggerfall until the bugs defeated me, so I never finished the game. Redguard was all right. Never tried Battlespire.

[DoctorNarrative]

Morrowind by a mile. It had a better story than either Daggerfall or Oblivion with better writing and better characters. It also had a more intricately designed world with interesting locations, lots of hidden loot to find and great atmosphere that veered from majestic to creepy and back again depending on where you were.

To be honest I have never really played Arena though, other than loading it up and messing with it a bit when Bethesda made it freeware.

[rich ruffo]

I thought that Nehrim was better than all of them.

[Barghest]

Where is the 'None of the above' option?

[Xian]

Morrowind was my choice. It had the right balance of game play, story, and exploration that makes a RPG fun to play for hours at a time.

Arena was okay, but it was a bit of a letdown too. I played it shortly after Ultima Underworld and I thought that was the better game.

Daggerfall was good, but buggy. The first time I played it I died before I could get to the first town. Once I emerged from the dungeon I would try to travel but always arrived dead. I am guessing that a rat in the starter dungeon poisoned me or gave me a disease, but I didn't see any indication of that. I had to restart and it worked the next time.

Oblivion wasn't a bad game, but I did not like the auto scaling of the monsters. I also thought the voice overs were poorly done - they could have at least got some more voice actors instead of using the same ones over and over for different characters. The lockpicking mini-game was fun the first dozen times or so, but it got old fast after that. Also, I greatly prefer a true expansion like Morrowind had instead of the shorter DLC in Oblivion.

[HiddenX]

Daggerfall & Battlespire & Redguard

[Foss]

Voted Morrowind, but I have haven't played any Elder Scrolls games before that though, so was only a battle between MW and Oblivion.

But that being said, my first and only completion of Morrowind is one of the best completions of any game I have ever done. I was so grabbed by that world and lore.

[Remus]

I am surprise that many peoples here liked Morrowind. Something changed?. There was time when anyone here (rpgdot) mentioned the game, a flame war would broke up very often. Hmm, where are the Gothic's fans ;)

[Jaz]

This was difficult for me... I played and liked them all.

I loved Arena because playing an invisible, fireball-toting wall smasher rocked (worried about those mighty undead? Well, tear down the walls to circumvent them).
I loved Daggerfall for being able to buy houses and ships, I loved to hate the Iliac Bay politics, and I loved how it gave an answer as to why the Dwemer had gone missing ( ;) ).
I loved Battlespire for its portayal of Oblivion and its inhabitants, especially Imago Storm.
I loved Redguard for the tons of stilted dialog.
I loved Morrowind for the mild yet comforting world weirdness, for being able to invest hours in interior decoration and collecting light sources to illuminate my mansion.
And finally, I loved Oblivion because of the Imperial City guard detail, especially Cpt. Fanatic and Cpt. Straight Edge - these guys were hilarious.

What I didn't like about...
...Arena: all the places looked exactly the same. The world was huge, but it hadn#t been necessary. Besides, you couldn't travel the regular way and actually reach your destination.
...Daggerfall: The bugs. Well, my version already came with a 20 MB bugfix, but trying to explore dungeons without activated debugging keys was still suicidal.
...Battlespire: Once again, the bugs. How often did I have to repeat a level because some glyph didn't spawn? *shrugs*
...Reguard: that it was so easy to ruin the game by doing things out of sequence. Plus the 3rd person-exclusive perspective.
...Morrowind: that it was so easy to lose accompanying NPC due to mediocre pathfinding and worse AI.
...Oblivion: that it was too High Fantasy for my taste. Level scaling (though Tribunal had done this before). Psychic guards. And worst of all: no collectible light sources! Interior decoration was a real drag.

So when it came down to pick my least favorite, I'd say 'Redguard', but since this poll is about favorites... this is difficult.
Well, it took me 7 months to finish the Daggerfall main campaign, but I spent 18 months on Morrowind plus expansions (roughly 12 without expansions), and not because I got bored enough to play other games in between. So I vote for Morrowind.

[ikbenrichard]

but I spent 18 months on Morrowind plus expansions (roughly 12 without expansions), and not because I got bored enough to play other games in between. So I vote for Morrowind.

oh, thats is uh ALOT of time :)
Did you play one hour a day or something?

Regarding daggerfall, i really would like to try that one once more, but iam afraid that it will be still too bugfilled. Am i right?.

[Jaz]

Uh, one hour a day is what I can afford nowadays if a game is interesting.
Back then I played about 2 hours on weekdays (right, not much) when I did not have to train for e-sports, and five or six hours a day on weekends without tourneys. That's an average of about 16 hours/week. A year has ~52 weeks, so that's still an enormous amount of time I spent with Morrowind.

I replayed Daggerfall for the last time back in '03 or '04 I think. As I was prepared for the bugs and knew what to watch out for it wasn't too frustrating… but some of the dungeons were just as irritating as they were when I got lost during my first play-through. Luckily, there's a debugging shortcut that cycles you through the important locations of a dungeon… that cheat is a necessity, because you WILL get stuck. If you don't fall through the floor first, of course.

EDIT

By the way, I completed Daggerfall (as in, actually finished the main quest) on my last playthrough (see above). My first end game fell victim to a bug - the letters necessary to trigger the final chapter never spawned. Probably fell through one of the holes in the ground like the Dwemer. Anyway, after erring through the states of Iliac Bay for weeks (real time) I called it a day and stopped playing.

[Zloth]

Also, I greatly prefer a true expansion like Morrowind had instead of the shorter DLC in Oblivion.
Errr, did you never go through this door (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TKq_MnVHeeF_J81qbDzbXQ?feat=directlink)?

[jhwisner]

I think we can all the 2 votes for Battlespire proof that the ballot was confusing. That or maybe there were hanging chads.

…Oblivion: that it was too High Fantasy for my taste. Level scaling (though Tribunal had done this before). Psychic guards. And worst of all: no collectible light sources! Interior decoration was a real drag

Well sigil stones did throw off light - but unless you meant to decorate your interior with a hellish red glow they wren't suitable. Also the particle effect they generated did cause slowdowns on some machines back in the day

Luckily, there's a debugging shortcut that cycles you through the important locations of a dungeon… that cheat is a necessity, because you WILL get stuck. If you don't fall through the floor first, of course.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers who terrible the random generated dungeons could be. The innovative yet ultimately useless 3d map was part of the problem. The other problem was that the sprawling labyrinthian complexes made no sense and were sometimes generated in broken ways that did not make reaching quest points possible. I did have one case where a quest target was in a room that was not properly connected to the rest of the dungeon.

As many problems as Daggerfall had though I will always think well of it. It was the first non-ultima CRPG I had played at that time that really stole many hours of my life. I had lots of fun when I wasn't pounding my keyboard in frustration at forgetting to cast the mark spell upon entering the dungeon (something you should do even if you use the debug cheats).

Battlespire had some interesting lore thrown in but puzzles that seemed too difficult were often merely glitched requiring a reload to a previous save. Ultimately this one had me wishing I was playing Ultima Underworld instead.

Redguard was good in some ways - I appreciated the more hand-crafted nature of the NPCs and the locations. I was not a huge fan of their implementation of the 3rd person patformer style gameplay though. The same setting, plot, and characters but with another combat and control scheme could have made this a great game as opposed to an entertaining yet somtimes very frustrating diversion.

[Jaz]

I did have one case where a quest target was in a room that was not properly connected to the rest of the dungeon.Was that Direnni tower? I don't think I ever figured out how to reach Medora, and finally succumbed to the lure of '[' and ']'. But I also felt seriously challenged by castles Shedungent and Faalem. It's been a while, and so I'm not sure about this.

As for the sigil stones and and other portable light sources in Oblivion (Welkynd stones etc. shed light as well IIRC): I put lanterns in the front porches of all of my Morrowind houses, no matter how honorable the way of acquiring the houses had been. I decorated roof terraces with lamps and candles and crockery and food and stuff, and I outlined the roof of my main stay with candles and the like just to be able to see it from a distance at night and know I'll be back home soon :). It would have been really difficult to do this in Oblivion - just placing some food on a plate in an aesthetically pleasing way took 20+ attempts so I gave up quickly.

EDIT

Yeah, I also thought of Daggerfall as a very satisfying game. I liked the Daedra as presented in Battlespire, and Redguard… same feelings here.

[Dajjer]

I am surprise that many peoples here liked Morrowind. Something changed?. There was time when anyone here (rpgdot) mentioned the game, a flame war would broke up very often. Hmm, where are the Gothic's fans ;)

Here at RPG Watch, it's generally understood that Morrowind was the best TES game and thus far the voting reflects that. Still, some of the supporters of Oblivion are quite vocal.

And oh yeah, Gothic tops even Morrowind, but this poll is not about Gothic.

[Jaz]

(As much as I loved Gothic 1 and 2 and Risen, I still wish I had been able to play them in a decent first person mode.)

[jhwisner]

Here are RPG Watch, it's generally understood that Morrowind was the best TES game and thus far the voting reflects that. Still, some of the supporters of Oblivion are quite vocal.

And oh yeah, Gothic tops even Morrowind, but this poll is not about Gothic.

All the games that appear in a large number of people's top RPGs of all time lists also had a lot of problems. This is particularly true with some of the games made by studios before the age of EA consolidation of much of the game industry as it seemed they were often very ambitious in their design intentions but lacked the resources to polish them.

Just think about games like Fallout 1&2, Arcanum, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, and Planescape Tormnet. Those games are often amongst peoples favorite CRPGs ever but each of them had significant problems that, to varying degrees, may be harder for some to look past than others.

I do include Planescape torment on that list of flawed works of gaming art even though it is my personal favorite because it was obvious to the player that the game was left unfinished. The simplest example of this (besides the comunity patches which had incorperated thousands of lines of de-activated dialog text) is Falls From Grace's diary. It was clear they meant to do more with that character, but your interactions with here just seem to end abruptly.

So I guess the perceived hate for Morrowind is more the regret many people have over how much better it could have been and the discussion of the more obvious flaws. Even if its someone's favorite game, they will probably be able to tell you 10 things about it that were done just plain poorly.

And oh yeah, Gothic tops even Morrowind, but this poll is not about Gothic.

Something about that game reminded me a bit too much of Ultima IX.

[JDR13]

I'm going to say Morrowind. Although it probably would have been Daggerall if it wasn't for all the bugs.

[JDR13]

I loved Daggerfall for being able to buy houses and ships, I loved to hate the Iliac Bay politics, and I loved how it gave an answer as to why the Dwemer had gone missing ( ;) ).

I never knew about the Dwemer being explained in Daggerfall. Of course I never came close to actually finishing it. In fact, you're one of the few people I know who has.

Weren't the Dwemer explained at some point in Morrowind as well?


(As much as I loved Gothic 1 and 2 and Risen, I still wish I had been able to play them in a decent first person mode.)

Bah…heresy ;)

[bloodlover]

Morrowind without a doubt.

[Jaz]

I never knew about the Dwemer being explained in Daggerfall.They weren't, but regarding the holes that allowed you to fall through the fabric of the Daggerfall world I thought it was self-explanatory why and how they vanished. Of course I never came close to actually finishing it. In fact, you're one of the few people I know who has.Well, if we're being anal about this, it took me 8 RL years to get this far ^^.
Weren't the Dwemer explained at some point in Morrowind as well?Yeah, and unfortunately holes in the floor had nothing to do with the official story. Some sources say it was something about a spell gone wrong; if that's correct, then I honestly believe that the spell somehow involved '[ALT]F11', just in a backwards fashion.Bah…heresy ;)What else do you expect from a retired bush league FPS player type of person? 0MFG ph34r my 1337 army of :) :D :lol: :roll: . They pwn.

[Corwin]

I think the voting for MW has been skewed by hackers. It's DF for the WIN and yes I did finish it my first playthrough despite the bugs and a few hundred patches. :)

[Xian]

Errr, did you never go through this door (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TKq_MnVHeeF_J81qbDzbXQ?feat=directlink)?

You are right Zloth, I never played the Shivering Isles expansion and I totally forgot about it.

[crpgnut]

I voted Oblivion, but the true answer is the one I'm playing. I always enjoy D,M, and O each time I play them. Arena is a little long in the tooth, but it was fun in the day.

[Dajjer]

I think the voting for MW has been skewed by hackers. It's DF for the WIN and yes I did finish it my first play through despite the bugs and a few hundred patches. :)

Don't be a hater. Daggerfall was a great game but that auto-maze has to be one of the dumbest things ever implemented in a computer game. I bet they were high when then designed that thing. One time I actually walked from one town to another and it took about a half hour of real time. The town was insignificant but the sense of accomplishment made the town one of my favs.

Still, I just go back to that town in Morrowind with the desert winds blowing and all the residents shielding themselves form the sands. Just an astounding visual for a computer game. If the game had come out a generation later, it might have become one of the best RPGs of all time instead of the best TES game.

[Lord_Brownie]

I love Daggerfall, esp the dungeons. Morrowind is #2, then Oblivion.
LB

[Corwin]

Brownie, where have you been? LONG time no see!!

[SAGO]

why are you asking for our opinions, dhruin?

why are you not posting another wave of dragonage 2 reviews?

[Jaz]

Dhruin's pure awesomeness, that's why.

[Maylander]

Morrowind, hands down.

[DArtagnan]

I voted Oblivion.

It's the one Elderscrolls game that I bothered to finish, and it's the only one I've actually felt was a solid title - after the necessary no-scaling mods.

Daggerfall was WAY too buggy, and it didn't deliver anything near the original promises. It was an interesting experiment - but functionally it was extremely flawed.

Arena was also an interesting game, and I remember being impressed by how big it was. But ultimately, it wasn't something I played much - and I remember getting bored pretty quickly. I preferred games like Ultima Underworld.

Morrowind, as we've been through a lot lately - was just not for me. I found it dreary and hollow. Beautiful and ahead of its time in many ways - but the actual gameplay and flow didn't do it for me.

[JDR13]

It's the one Elderscrolls game that I bothered to finish

I've actually never seen the ending of any TES game.

I put around 200 hours into Morrowind, and did everything there was to do on approx 95% of the map, but I never faced Dagoth Ur for some reason. I think I eventually just got burned out despite really enjoying the game for the most part.

Only played Oblivion for 10-15 hours.. I just couldn't get into it. I do plan on giving it another chance someday. Heavily modded of course. :)

[DArtagnan]

I've actually never seen the ending of any TES game.

I put around 200 hours into Morrowind, and did everything there was to do on approx 95% of the map, but I never faced Dagoth Ur for some reason. I think I eventually just got burned out despite really enjoying the game for the most part.

Only played Oblivion for 10-15 hours.. I just couldn't get into it. I do plan on giving it another chance someday. Heavily modded of course. :)

Just play through the Dark Brotherhood quests, at least :)

They've been hyped a lot, and no - they're not THAT good - but some of the writing is pretty strong, and amusing if you like that sort of dark humor.

[JDR13]

Just play through the Dark Brotherhood quests, at least :)

They've been hyped a lot, and no - they're not THAT good - but some of the writing is pretty strong, and amusing if you like that sort of dark humor.

I didn't join the Dark Brotherhood in Morrowind because they seemed a bit on the "evil" side, which I don't normally role-play. I'll be sure to check them out whenever I start Oblivion again though.

[xSamhainx]

It's all about Morrowind for me.

[DArtagnan]

I didn't join the Dark Brotherhood in Morrowind because they seemed a bit on the "evil" side, which I don't normally role-play. I'll be sure to check them out whenever I start Oblivion again though.

They're definitely evil.

Interestingly enough, I normally never play evil characters either - and yet I felt it was a natural thing to join the DB in Oblivion.

But that's because I largely prefer to play stealthy types - and since the game was so open about how you go about developing your character or handle situations, it didn't feel so forced - like in a Bioware game where being evil is telegraphed by colors and obvious dialogue choices.

The DB is so excessively evil - that you can't really take it seriously. At least I couldn't - and the whole quest-line struck me as mostly tongue-in-cheek stuff, but done so well it didn't matter.

[Thrasher]

So how many of these have all the voters played? I've only played 3 of them. Of the 3 (DF, MW, OB), I prefer Morrowind.

[Gokyabgu]

My personal choice is Morrowind. While I get acquainted with Elder Scrolls series with Daggerfall and played it hundreds of hours, Daggerfall's randomness in towns, dungeons, side quests became repetitive and boring after a while. So I always prefer Morrowind's hand made dungeons, quests to random ones. It's not only the alien worlds that I hold dear in Morrowind, but exploring contains lots of fun because of all this. Oblivion is in the bottom of my list, because of the randomness, streamlining and such. Simplistic and short dialogs, awful level scaling, generic world and terrible bloated faces (Yes I can't bear to look at the NPC faces). It was my biggest disappointment in 2006. But the biggest strength of all TES games are the modding community. And much of these problems were solved by talented modders. Most people can disagree with me, but Fallout 3 is much better than Oblivion (in terms of world, quests, level scaling, etc) and I hope Skyrim will be much better than Oblivion.

[Zaleukos]

Morrowind by a mile. Daggerfall second, Oblivion third. Arena was too dated to be playable by the time I got it, and I havent tried the others.

I finished Daggerfall btw:p

Most people can disagree with me, but Fallout 3 is much better than Oblivion (in terms of world, quests, level scaling, etc) and I hope Skyrim will be much better than Oblivion.

I for one agree. Oblivion was my 2nd biggest disappointment of 2006 (beaten only by the atrocity that is Railroads!), but when I bought a bargain-bin Fallout 3 I was pleasantly surprised. Some fine tuning and removing the (IMHO rather annoying dance-like friendly fire bonanza) melee combat of Oblivion was all it took for Bethsoft to produce another solid title. Funny since several of the mechanics that annoyed me in Oblivion are in the other Bethsoft titles as well, only less hamfisted (Daggerfall had pretty ridiculous level scaling though)...

Since FO3 showed that Bethsoft still can deliver games that work for me I'll probably get Skyrim, unless it is butchered by people I trust, but I'll wait for a bundle with some DLCs included.

[Jaz]

So how many of these have all the voters played? I may be the only one (nah, I know that I'm not), but I played them all.

[DArtagnan]

So how many of these have all the voters played? I've only played 3 of them. Of the 3 (DF, MW, OB), I prefer Morrowind.

All of them, as well as all the others by Beth.

[Xian]

So how many of these have all the voters played? I've only played 3 of them. Of the 3 (DF, MW, OB), I prefer Morrowind.

I had mentioned in my post on the first page that I had played them all. I never did finish Daggerfall though.

Someone had mentioned the Gothic series. I prefer those to the Elder Scrolls myself, but the poll was about TES games. I also liked Fallout 3 better than Oblivion, though not as much as the originals.

[Thrasher]

Finishing? Not sure what you mean there...

[HiddenX]

I may be the only one (nah, I know that I'm not), but I played them all.

Me too, I played all games and finished all but one (ES1: Arena).

You can't really finish Daggerfall - I finished the main-quest and most of the Daedra quests for special items.

[Thrasher]

How do you define "finish" for games that don't force you to quit?

[HiddenX]

I spent around 500 hours on Daggerfall, 400 on Morrowind and 150 on Oblivion (vanilla) and 200 on Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul (OOO). I saw most of games' locations,items, persons and major quests. The rest are sandbox repetitive quests that get boring sooner or later.

[Thrasher]

That sounds close to my definition of "finish". I'd add all factions and all side/misc quests, too, although some are exclusive, and require multiple playthroughs to finish. For me removing the fog of war for the entire map is part of it completing, too (including underwater locations near to the shore in Morrowind). Still haven't played the House Hlaalu or House Redoran factions of Morrowind. One day…

[JDR13]

I spent around 500 hours on Daggerfall, 400 on Morrowind and 150 on Oblivion (vanilla) and 200 on Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul (OOO). I saw most of games' locations,items, persons and major quests. The rest are sandbox repetitive quests that get boring sooner or later.

Holy shite… o_o

I don't even understand how someone could milk 400 hours from Morrowind. Like I said earlier, I spent spent 200 there and did almost everything.

[Pladio]

I am surprise that many peoples here liked Morrowind. Something changed?. There was time when anyone here (rpgdot) mentioned the game, a flame war would broke up very often. Hmm, where are the Gothic's fans ;)

That's because we're only comparing the ES games, not Gothic vs ES ...

[Jaz]

For me removing the fog of war for the entire map is part of it completing, too *check* Still haven't played the House Hlaalu or House Redoran factions of Morrowind. One day… And I never joined another House but Hlaalu because I liked their mansion the best (but I did, of course, clean the premises of the other two mansions and planted my lantern of ownership right beside the door). That's something I'll have to do one day as well, play the Telvanni and Redoran side of things.

Hm, I guess I'm somewhat possessed with houses and interior decoration. Owning at least one house in every city is another goal. But Morrowind made it possible :).

[HiddenX]

I prefer House Redoran - cool family ;)

[txa1265]

Definitely prefer Morrowind ... the last Bethesda game before they started making console action games ... ;)

[GhanBuriGhan]

Well, I played DF, Redguard, MW, and Oblivion. Daggerfall made me a TES fan, but I agree with the majority that MW was the highlight so far. It did have its shortcomings in many ways, but to me "the sum of its parts" was a really great experience. Not to mention the hours of fun I had while modding it.
While I was well entertained by Oblivion, it didn't even come close to fascinate me as much as Morrowind did (and hyped as I was, that means it failed my expectations by a wide margin). The handholding got in the way first, and the lack of a meaningful development of the lore and the ultimate blandness of the version of Cyrodiil that was presented here did not allow me to oversee the flaws as much as I did with Morrowind. Interestingly, the level scaling was only a minor grievance for me.

[kalniel]

HALT! HALT!

DF is the clear winner for me. Nothing else has since come close to providing the virtual life that Daggerfall did. And it's not something I can easily sum in words - the scale, the economy, the feel of the towns and shops, the houses and ships.. the feeling of emerging from a dungeon into this open world and it's snowing.. utterly wonderful.

But you had to use your imagination - the political intrigue was well hinted at in the manual and the letters, but in reality it wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been. Cardboard cut out NPCs didn't help immersion.. nor did the HALT! guards.

I did finish it, but I think I cheated.

And anyone else remember Rusty Ogre Lodge? ;)

[DArtagnan]

HALT! HALT!

DF is the clear winner for me. Nothing else has since come close to providing the virtual life that Daggerfall did. And it's not something I can easily sum in words - the scale, the economy, the feel of the towns and shops, the houses and ships.. the feeling of emerging from a dungeon into this open world and it's snowing.. utterly wonderful.

But you had to use your imagination - the political intrigue was well hinted at in the manual and the letters, but in reality it wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been. Cardboard cut out NPCs didn't help immersion.. nor did the HALT! guards.

I did finish it, but I think I cheated.

And anyone else remember Rusty Ogre Lodge? ;)

Nah, but I remember the mood-setting intro and the creepy dead king making weird noises somewhere :)

[txa1265]

I didn't play Arena until they gave it away free. Daggerfall was just so buggy that I didn't finish it until after Morrowind, at which point all of the negatives outweighed the positives.

[JDR13]

I still maintain that DaggerXL could be incredible, if it ever actually gets completed.

[DoctorNarrative]

I still maintain that DaggerXL could be incredible, if it ever actually gets completed.

I am anticipating that release more than pretty much any published game coming in the next couple years, including Skyrim.

[JDR13]

I am anticipating that release more than pretty much any published game coming in the next couple years, including Skyrim.

It would be awesome, no doubt.

At the same time, I have to admit it scares me a little. I can easily imagine losing myself in that game for 5-6 months.

[crpgnut]

To think that someone is remaking a 15 year old game just boggles the mind. Could you imagine working on the same game for 15 years? Wait, is the guy doing this named Cleve Blakemore? You guys! It's all a hoax :D

[Thrasher]

*check* And I never joined another House but Hlaalu because I liked their mansion the best

Are you talking about the one in Balmora with the dead guy in the dining room? I took that one, too. The house maid was locked in her closet for years, yet she never got tired or had want of food or water. Amazing. ;)

One day I should fire it up and take pics of my amazing collection of stuff... Stacks of flickering candles and lanterns on top of armor and shields makes for a pretty Xmas tree. :)

That's what Oblivion was REALLY missing. Candles and lanterns. ;)

[Jaz]

I meant Rethan Manor on the Odai Plateau. If you conquered it, there might well be a dead guy in the dining room, but I always got rid of the bodies. Didn't want them to spoil the perfection of what I had achieved, interior decoration-wise ^^.
And I absolutely agree with you on the lanterns-and-candles thing. Oblivion had them, but not being able to take or drop them was a huge letdown :p.

[skavenhorde]

Hated Daggerfall.

Loved Morrowind. Especially with what the community created for that game. I believe Morrowind was the first game I started looking seriously at modding my games to fit my preferences.

[Dhruin]

Daggerfall was too randomised and buggy for me. It was a very cool concept but I'll take hand-designed content over cookie-cutter towns and endless dungeons any day.

I'd like to have voted Morrowind - a very nice gameworld - but I found the minute-to-minute gameplay absolutely dreadful. The stealth was barely functional and the combat was shocking. Plus, I found the static NPCs boring.

So...Oblivion. For all its faults, the quests were much more inventive than Bethsoft had done before, the DB and thief lines were pretty good, the combat had some "weight" and the stealth was decent (outside specialist games like Thief). I lean towards thief/assassin characters and Oblivion wasn't bad for that.

[Tragos]

Morrowind was my introduction to RPGs , i first bought it thinking it was a text adventure because the box had no photos , only a very small one of Fargoth on the back side .
It is still my favourite game .

[crpgnut]

I guess that's why it's so hard for me to pick; they were all my favorites at the time I played them. Daggerfall was just so vast when it came out. It might still have the largest single-player world of any game. True, most of it was random, but a lot of the stuff in Daggerfall had never been done before. Just choosing a character could take hours because you wanted to balance the advantages and disadvantages.

Morrowind was SO alien, and everyone hated you. That was a shock to me. In 99% of crpgs before M, everybody loved or at least tolerated the hero. Not so in Morrowind. They hated your guts and would rather see you die than have to talk to you. I actually disliked this, but was impressed that Bethesda would take such a chance. I also loved all the tiny lookalike dungeons scattered everywhere. I've never finished Morrowind and really was never interested enough to. I need to go back and replay it but I'm lazy when it comes to installing all the mods.

Oblivion just hits all the right buttons for me. I love the foresty environment, I enjoyed the towns and imperial city and the level scaling didn't bother my enjoyment of the game much. The fact that you could mod the game to fit your exact tastes was just icing on the already great cake. I replay it every year and have fun every time; in large part thanks to all the mods. That's the nicest thing about Oblivion; it never really is the same game twice.

[JDR13]

Daggerfall was just so vast when it came out. It might still have the largest single-player world of any game.


I know you've probably seen this already...

According to Todd Howard, an Elder Scrolls programmer, the game's sequel, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, is 0.01% the size of Daggerfall

That still amazes me everytime I read it.

[txa1265]

That still amazes me everytime I read it.

Wow ... I hadn't seen that before, makes sense, but just wow.

[Thrasher]

Yeah, it's like Daggerfall is the size of the US, and Morrowind is the size of LA. ;)

[Tragos]

Daggerfall from what i have read is ~150.000km2 , this is a little bigger than England or the size of Michigan , MW is like 12km2.
DF is populated with 700.000 NPCs , MW has ~2350 .

[DArtagnan]

You guys think that's amazing?

Have you played Frontier?

Install size: ~800 KB

Personally, I'm more impressed by interesting content than virtual landscapes or empty space.

[Thrasher]

@T

I was just comparing the ratios, rather than absolute areas.

[azarhal]

I can't pick!

Oblivion had lots of improvements, but lacked "something".
Morrowind had the "something" in spade, but didn't "age" well.
Daggerfall had a better fast travel system, gear system and main quest "branching"...and lots of bugs and "random".

[crpgnut]

One thing that Bethesda games have all missed, is the feeling of friendship. In all of their games, there isn't any NPC's you feel like you've truly developed a relationship with. I don't need party members, but I would like to see the NPC have friends. The Witcher has Triss and Dandelion, Dragon Age has the other party members, but I never felt Martin was a friend but instead a guy who hands out quests and was a little needy. I'd love to see that aspect of the game improved. Mods fixed this, but I'd like to see Bethesda incorporate it this time. Even Fallout and FNV weren't as good at this as other games. FNV is the best of the lot, so I hope they continue to improve.

[Thrasher]

Actually there is a friendship (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ahnassi,_a_Special_Friend)in Morrowind you can develop.

[JDR13]

One thing that Bethesda games have all missed, is the feeling of friendship. In all of their games, there isn't any NPC's you feel like you've truly developed a relationship with.


Dogmeat was one of the best friends I've ever had. I could accidentally shoot him in the ass while he was fighting a Super Mutant, and he still loved me. :)

[Relayer]

One thing that Bethesda games have all missed, is the feeling of friendship. In all of their games, there isn't any NPC's you feel like you've truly developed a relationship with..

That is such a good point! I think that's one of the things that makes their games feel "gamey". Everything revolves around you.

Anyway, Morrowind is one of my favorite games of all time, warts and all so it got my vote. Together with Tribunal and Bloodmoon, it just makes for a still impressive gameworld and experience.

However, I have to mention that I may be changing my opinion of Oblivion. I've hated it for a long time but recently picked it up for the 360 and am actually enjoying it. It's no Morrowind, not even close, but after deciding to ignore the voice acting, some of the dialogue, all the hand holding and the level scaling, I have to say the majority of quests (aside from the main quest) are pretty entertaining.

I guess I have certain expectations when I play a PC RPG and playing this on the 360 I just lowered my genre expectations and am thinking of it as an action/adventure with RPG elements instead of a hardcore RPG. It's a good couch game: playing it on my 42" LCD with the 5.1 sound cranked up, it can get immersive at times.

I still managed to get a little bored in between quests though, the world is nowhere as fascinating to explore as Morrowind but I have to say quests in general are improved greatlyfrom Morrowind and I just had to give it another chance to discover that aspect.

And from the short time I spent with Daggerfall, I would say Oblivion feels more like it than Morrowind.

[Heronblade]

I always thought that people undersell Oblivion. I am largely unable to pick a favorite between it and Morrowind, and strictly storylinewise Morrowind does win. But at the same time, Oblivion made huge advances in gameplay mechanics, both for the series and games in general. For example, archery in Morrowind was little more than an exercise in futility. One could expend quiver-fulls of arrows at a single target and hit only twice at low skill levels. Oblivion made it a useful and enjoyable tactic.

Rather than nitpick about what either game did wrong, I just want to see Skyrim include the best of both.

I'm afraid I have yet to play any others of the series, I have tried to play both Daggerfall and Arena, but neither would work properly for me.

[txa1265]

I always thought that people undersell Oblivion.

Considering it is one of the 'poster children' for a game that had review text listing nearly countless flaws with a 10/10 score slapped on it, it is hard to back that up.

But considering it is also considered somewhat of a joke amongst RPG fans for just how much IS broken or fundamentally flawed, and how quickly Bethesda used it as a whipping boy when describing just how awesome Fallout 3 would be ... perhaps you have a point ...

[JDR13]

and how quickly Bethesda used it as a whipping boy when describing just how awesome Fallout 3 would be..

Isn't it funny how quickly companies will shit on a product that they previously hyped...for the sake of PR for their newest product? Maybe Bioware stole a page from Bethesda recently..

[Nerevarine]

Isn't it funny how quickly companies will shit on a product that they previously hyped…for the sake of PR for their newest product? Maybe Bioware stole a page from Bethesda recently..

Personally - and perhaps I'm just not remembering correctly - I don't feel that Bethesda is among the worst offenders in this regard. Of course, there is always a very thin line between stating honest self-criticism (a good thing) and bashing a previous game in order to build up an upcoming project. Mike Laidlaw and co. sure did a good job of the latter recently…

[GhanBuriGhan]

However, I have to mention that I may be changing my opinion of Oblivion. I've hated it for a long time but recently picked it up for the 360 and am actually enjoying it. It's no Morrowind, not even close, but after deciding to ignore the voice acting, some of the dialogue, all the hand holding and the level scaling, I have to say the majority of quests (aside from the main quest) are pretty entertaining.


Yes, if one ignores all tis major faults, it is a nice game. Errr...

Regarding friendships. Humm. Ok on the Gothic level, but please no chatterboxes as in Biowares games. (Not that I dislike that, but they belong to those games, I'd rather not have that in a TES game.)

[Thrasher]

What's worse is discontinuing support for previous games, to pump up interest in the next. NWN 2 vs. NWN 1. Atari, I will never forgive you.

[Ryder]

Morrowind was the most boring, repetitive game I have ever played. It really was a pile of crap. It was so bad I was too scarred to even think about playing Oblivion.

[kalniel]

Morrowind was the most boring, repetitive game I have ever played. It really was a pile of crap. It was so bad I was too scarred to even think about playing Oblivion.

So your favourite was Redguard? All the others were even more repetitive than Morrowind.

[Dajjer]

Just loaded up Morrowwind on my Brand New core I7 rig and the vanilla game is still very very playable. Graphics of course are far behind the times, and the dialoge tree is somewhat monotonous, but I found myself playing for about 2 hours and having fun. I think I'll just use the in game exploits and see where that takes me. Flying Avatar, Here I come.

BTW, do I have to be a certain level to play Tribunal or Bloodmoon?

[JDR13]

BTW, do I have to be a certain level to play Tribunal or Bloodmoon?

No, but those areas will be more difficult for a low level character.

[Thrasher]

No, but those areas will be more difficult for a low level character.

In particular the boss fights at the end of their main quests. But you can always come back to those later when you are levelled up.

[Motoki]

I remember starting a new game once and going straight to Solstheim without grabbing anything on the way. The only rules I set for myself was that I couldn't leave the island before I completed all the quests there. It was quite the challenge.

Oh and anyone playing the game now I wold strongly recommend graphics mods of which there are many, or better yet, get a pack the brings them all together in one place like this one: http://morrowindoverhaul.net

[SAGO]

definately oblivion

haters gunna hate

[ChienAboyeur]

I can't pick!

Oblivion had lots of improvements, but lacked "something".
Morrowind had the "something" in spade, but didn't "age" well.
Daggerfall had a better fast travel system, gear system and main quest "branching"…and lots of bugs and "random".

Similar here.

I prefer to refer to those games to assess the evolution of the genre. To see how the genre is progressing while technology adds more and more means.

Thinking of Daggerfall which must weight around 200Mo, the magnitude of its world and the wished complexity, the less numerous mod opportunities to today games weighting 4 to 7 Go.

Daggerfall's fast travel was the stub of an abstracted transportation system. Later games switched for teleportation mode.

Skyrim is supposed to introduce a transportation system. We'll see.

[villain of the story]

I always thought that people undersell Oblivion. I am largely unable to pick a favorite between it and Morrowind, and strictly storylinewise Morrowind does win. But at the same time, Oblivion made huge advances in gameplay mechanics, both for the series and games in general. For example, archery in Morrowind was little more than an exercise in futility. One could expend quiver-fulls of arrows at a single target and hit only twice at low skill levels. Oblivion made it a useful and enjoyable tactic.

In the case of Archery in Morrowind, I agree. Morrowind had a very misled implementation of the "To Hit" mechanic, which was otherwise a 100% Roleplaying element by making its success depend almost entirely on character skill but failed in practice.

Oblivion on the other hand, is reduced to being a "shooter" game because there is no Roleplaying in there, your "character" is only a medium for your own skill as a player. Whether you hit or not depends on your manual dexterity, so there is only you, your weapon and your mouse. Absolutely no different than a shooter game.

So, ideally, both are equally bad in my opinion and what Oblivion did with archery is far from an improvement. It's merely a rehashing of a common shooter element. They don't even try to bring something new to the table to unite player and character skill in a meaningful way. Not to mention that Daggerfall already does it better.

So apart from that, I would like to know more about what I have failed to notice with this game. Please share with us the these huge advances in gameplay mechanics that Oblivion made.

[Dasale]

...Skyrim is supposed to introduce a transportation system. We'll see.
You mean fast but physical transport? In fact Morrowind had that isn't it?

About Oblivion quests I could agree their story was in general quite good and above the usual standards. But I disagree they was that good, their mechanism had a tendency to not work well and be cursed by the follow the cursor thing. But few of the best was still probably overall better than those of Morrowind.

What killed me Oblivion are, the world that tend to be not be well filled, the world lack of mood, the empty dungeons, the main story I found very tedious and artificial, the awful repetition of hell gates, the fights not enough fun, the cursor making most quest boring. Even horses I found quite fun at first quickly bored me because of the hassle to take it, leave it, take it, leave it. It resulted in an awful mechanism making exploration even more boring. With all of that the few good or even great secondary quests don't weight much.

But from the commercial communication of Skyrim I switch between zero hope from Bethesda to a rising curiosity for Skyrim. At least for the world mood this problem seems targeted in Skyrim. I don't like much the use of dragons planed but I could survive that.

[Drithius]

Oh and anyone playing the game now I wold strongly recommend graphics mods of which there are many, or better yet, get a pack the brings them all together in one place like this one: http://morrowindoverhaul.net


You know, I tried a couple times, but I never played Morrowind beyond an hour or two into the original campaign. The demo video for that mod pack makes it look enticing all over again - perhaps after The Witcher 2.

[bloodlover]

I remember starting a new game once and going straight to Solstheim without grabbing anything on the way. The only rules I set for myself was that I couldn't leave the island before I completed all the quests there. It was quite the challenge.

Oh and anyone playing the game now I wold strongly recommend graphics mods of which there are many, or better yet, get a pack the brings them all together in one place like this one: http://morrowindoverhaul.net

Is this directly some .exe file I simply have to install and not try to separately instal every single mod?

[Jack67]

Wow, no offense to those who voted for Morrowind, but you're making me feel old. Daggerfall had its weaknesses with randomization, but had a feeling of breadth that Morrowind lacked horribly. Vivec (sp?) was supposed to be a major city and there were MAYBE 30 people living there. Not very impressive. I'd take the cardboard people giving me rather accurate directions in Daggerfall any day over the spartan world of Morrowind. Oh, and wall climbing, levitation, flying, smashing chests instead of picking them open (for the non-thief types) made Daggerfall a more interesting game. Hell, even Passwall in Arena made it more interesting than Daggerfall.

I opened this with a statement about my age. I think being part of the evolution of role-playing games in those years is what colors my perception. Daggerfall kicked ass when it came out. It was goofy in its own way (2-D people, crazy-big random dungeons, etc.), but it shocked me with how revolutionary it was. Folks who were 16-20 years-old when Morrowind came out might just think I'm a crazy old codger. That was there revolutionary game, even though it was a seriously stripped-down Daggerfall. You just can't reproduce those first impressions when a game is newly released. Nonetheless, I wish Bethesda had built on the freedom afforded by Daggerfall and used the current technology to make a bigger, more believable world -- rather than paring it down, like they did with Morrowind.

[Jack67]

Wow, no offense to those who voted for Morrowind, but you're making me feel old. Daggerfall had its weaknesses with randomization, but had a feeling of breadth that Morrowind lacked horribly. Vivec (sp?) was supposed to be a major city and there were MAYBE 30 people living there. Not very impressive. I'd take the cardboard people giving me rather accurate directions in Daggerfall any day over the spartan world of Morrowind. Oh, and wall climbing, levitation, flying, smashing chests instead of picking them open (for the non-thief types) made Daggerfall a more interesting game. Hell, even Passwall in Arena made it more interesting than Daggerfall.

I opened this with a statement about my age. I think being part of the evolution of role-playing games in those years is what colors my perception. Daggerfall kicked ass when it came out. It was goofy in its own way (2-D people, crazy-big random dungeons, etc.), but it shocked me with how revolutionary it was. Folks who were 16-20 years-old when Morrowind came out might just think I'm a crazy old codger. That was there revolutionary game, even though it was a seriously stripped-down Daggerfall. You just can't reproduce those first impressions when a game is newly released. Nonetheless, I wish Bethesda had built on the freedom afforded by Daggerfall and used the current technology to make a bigger, more believable world — rather than paring it down, like they did with Morrowind.

Sorry, mistyped this part: "Hell, even Passwall in Arena made it more interesting than Daggerfall."

Should read "...more interesting than Morrowind."

[Jaz]

Passwall was one great, great spell. Besides, it was really necessary to get around some of the more difficult enemies ^^. 'Make your own dungeon', indeed.
Ah, I liked them all, even Battlespire (which usually gets most of the flak). There are days when I prefer Morrowind, days where I prefer Daggerfall, and days where I praise Arena or Oblivion. Fact is - I'm really waiting to get my hands on Skyrim.

[GhanBuriGhan]

Wow, no offense to those who voted for Morrowind, but you're making me feel old. Daggerfall had its weaknesses with randomization, but had a feeling of breadth that Morrowind lacked horribly. Vivec (sp?) was supposed to be a major city and there were MAYBE 30 people living there. Not very impressive. I'd take the cardboard people giving me rather accurate directions in Daggerfall any day over the spartan world of Morrowind. Oh, and wall climbing, levitation, flying, smashing chests instead of picking them open (for the non-thief types) made Daggerfall a more interesting game. Hell, even Passwall in Arena made it more interesting than Daggerfall.

I opened this with a statement about my age. I think being part of the evolution of role-playing games in those years is what colors my perception. Daggerfall kicked ass when it came out. It was goofy in its own way (2-D people, crazy-big random dungeons, etc.), but it shocked me with how revolutionary it was. Folks who were 16-20 years-old when Morrowind came out might just think I'm a crazy old codger. That was there revolutionary game, even though it was a seriously stripped-down Daggerfall. You just can't reproduce those first impressions when a game is newly released. Nonetheless, I wish Bethesda had built on the freedom afforded by Daggerfall and used the current technology to make a bigger, more believable world — rather than paring it down, like they did with Morrowind.

I was a (and still am) a huge fan of Daggerfall as well (but never really played Arena). Still, I prefer Morrowind. Daggerfall was in some ways too ambitous, too large. For all its breadth it started to feel generic after a time, the unique things too spread out. But I still have a vivid mental picture of Vvardenfell, its culture, religions, and myths in my mind.
I agree though that Daggerfall gave its players visions of what could be that have never really materialised - not in the later TES games nor elsewhere.

[DArtagnan]

Daggerfall was the most ambitious and (by far) the most flawed.

Morrowind was the most unique and I think that's a big reason why most people prefer it.

Oblivion is pretty generic, but I prefer it because it's the most immersive and it has the best combat mechanics. It was simply the best basis for the modding community, and mods made it pretty great.

[Fnord]

Arena: An interesting game, lots of interesting ideas, but it feels like the developers were not entirely sure what to do with everything. A good first step, but in my opinion, the game does not hold up very well.

Daggerfall: Huge, wonderful setting, lots of background information and a lot of things to explore. Bugs & frustrating dungeons did kill the game for me though (this was the first TES that I played).

Battlespire: Frustratingly buggy, and to be honest, the gameplay did not hold up all that well either. My least favourite of the lot.

Redguard: A few interesting ideas, some interesting characters, and a plot that held some merit. Controls were a bit awkward though, and the game was buggy.

Morrowind: The elderscrolls game with the most interesting setting & artistic design. The world was beautiful, in particular after a bit of modding. The game did have a fare amount of flaws, but fans were able to fix most of them. My favourite TES game and the only one that I have finished.

Oblivion: A beautiful game, with a rather generic high fantasy setting. Hearing the very same voice actors over and over again was a bit of an immersion breaker (and it got even worse when the beggars suddenly would change their voice when you asked them about certain things). Also, the game started to feel very repetitive after a while.

[Sir Markus]

I didn't think any of those games were all that great, IMO. I like a game with a story that one can finish.

[wolfing]

Oblivion by far for me. Then a toss up between Morrowind and Arena, then Daggerfall. Never played any of the expansions.

[Necrosis]

Without hesitation or qualification: Arena.

[Nilwarp]

Started the series with Morrowind - I did not know TES before, even if I am not that young.

Morrowind by a fair amount.

In Oblivion I could not stand with the infamous level scaling, did not like the simplification of the stats, missed the unique loots, etc.

Seeing how Skyrim will be even more over-simplified - what will remain? Just Health and Magicka? What a joke - I'm sure I will not even try it.
I need deep stats in order to create the very character I want to play, that is one of the key features I like in RPG, and Skyrim won't cut it for me.

[CrazyIrish]

Daggerfall was my favorite. It had by far the best character creation in the series, and the most freedom. YOU COULD CLIMB WALLS...OMG! Randomly generated stuff feels a little weird - mainly the NPCs, but I was somehow able to get into my own story enough that they seemed believable. After all, how often do you interrogate everyone you pass on a street?

Morrowind is a very close second. Although it lacked the scope of daggerfall, I never stopped thinking how beautiful the world was and I couldn't wait to discover what was around the next corner.

I think Arena should get an honorable mention as the first game that opened my eyes to the possibility that a video game could grant me a least a bit of the experience of the paper and pencil rpgs that I played at the time.

[Laverre]

Hmm hard to say.. so far I always had the feeling, that for all the promise the games had, nearly everyone lacked a certain... quality. The worlds always felt.. big but lacking enough meaningful content apart from some of the more interesting guild quest.
In the end I would say Daggerfall for its sheer size and ambition or Morrowind for the first impression it made, before I felt bored with the lackluster NPCs and rather limited creature variations.

[Balbus]

Daggerfall of course. Morrowind has doomed Bethesda Softworks in my opinion. It could have been so great ! still hoping Daggerfall 2, you know... one man has to dream.

[Motoki]

Oblivion might as well have been Daggerfall 2. Outside of the capitol, the world they presented looked more High Rock than what Cyrodiil was supposed to look like according to pre-Oblivion lore.

As far as I'm concerned, Venetica looks more like what Cyrodiil should look like than Oblivion does. :p

[Balbus]

Oblivion might as well have been Daggerfall 2. Outside of the capitol, the world they presented looked more High Rock than what Cyrodiil was supposed to look like according to pre-Oblivion lore.Not in my book, for it was not a matter of landscape. It was about proceduraly generated terrain, quests, and the like. This is what they could have enhanced (and fix to some degree). Minecraft and Mount & Blade felt closer to Daggerfall than Oblivion in my eyes. They chose to rip this off with Morrowind, when it was what mattered to me.

[Dajjer]

Wow, no offense to those who voted for Morrowind, but you're making me feel old. Daggerfall had its weaknesses with randomization, but had a feeling of breadth that Morrowind lacked horribly. Vivec (sp?) was supposed to be a major city and there were MAYBE 30 people living there. Not very impressive. I'd take the cardboard people giving me rather accurate directions in Daggerfall any day over the spartan world of Morrowind. Oh, and wall climbing, levitation, flying, smashing chests instead of picking them open (for the non-thief types) made Daggerfall a more interesting game. Hell, even Passwall in Arena made it more interesting than Daggerfall.



I'm an older player myself. I've played CRPGs since the TI99. But for me, Morrowind was more the total RPG experience than any other Elder Scroll game. Sheez, the Daggerfall auto map alone is enough to take away a whole grade from its score. What bothers me about the Elder Scroll franchise is that up till (and including) Morrowind, it seemed the designers were taking small steps in advancing the RPG genre with each game. But now, after Morrowind, it seems the Elder Scroll games are just getting better from a graphical perspective only.

[Eisberg]

Problem with this poll, is I bet that the majority of the players who have played Elder Scrolls games didn't start playing them till Morrowind or Oblivion, and most of them were probably on the consoles and never even heard of the other Elder Scrolls games. Kind of a pointless poll, since it largely includes people who have not played, and probably not even heard of the other ES games.

[JDR13]

Problem with this poll, is I bet that the majority of the players who have played Elder Scrolls games didn't start playing them till Morrowind or Oblivion, and most of them were probably on the consoles and never even heard of the other Elder Scrolls games. Kind of a pointless poll, since it largely includes people who have not played, and probably not even heard of the other ES games.

I think that would definitely be true at most gaming sites, and may still be true here, but I also think the average member here at The Watch has been playing crpgs longer than the members at a lot of other game forums.

[txa1265]

Problem with this poll, is I bet that the majority of the players who have played Elder Scrolls games didn't start playing them till Morrowind or Oblivion, and most of them were probably on the consoles and never even heard of the other Elder Scrolls games. Kind of a pointless poll, since it largely includes people who have not played, and probably not even heard of the other ES games.

You obviously have no clue about this site.

[Thrasher]

RPGWatch, the site for "mature" gamers. ;)

[txa1265]

RPGWatch, the site for "mature" gamers. ;)

Haha some of us were playing when they were just the 'adolescent' scrolls :D

[Jaz]

We are the Waldorfs & Statlers of RPGing, so to say ;).

[Thrasher]

or Patsy and Edinas ;)

[UK_John]

I voted for Morrowind with Daggerfall a very close second. If it wasn't for the 2011 Overhaul graphic and sound mod, that brings MW up to Oblivion late beta level or beyond, with occlusion, distant view, water reflections of everything, high res textures and a plethora of sound additions (it really is a thing to behold now), I might have voed for Daggerfall. With the various mods that add a sort of Radiant AI, much more in-depth conversation with many NPC's. the Morrowind Comes Alive mod which add many more NPC's and character type NPC's (like Vampire Hunters!) and mods like Morrowind Children etc, you can really make Morrowind look, sound and play on a whole new level compared with it's vanilla release!

I own Daggerfall, bought it when it first came out, have Arena too, and Battlespire and Redguard, so I know my Elder Scroll Lore! What was a shame - and so silly, was Bethesda not releasing the Daggerfall and Arena manuals.I wouldn't have helped getting the games to work in DOSBox, but having got the games working you would have had the great manuals to read, with all the history, characters, weapons and types of armour and spells, etc!

If you are thinking of coming from Morrowind/Oblivion to Daggerfall, and want the same sort of interface in Daggerfall, do the following:

Install the game. Go into the install directory and look for the last file z.cfg. open this file with notepad, and where it says "controls betaplyr.dat", change it to "controls viewplyr.dat" This will give you mouse view, and a WASD style control method. Just go into options when the game starts (Escape key) go to controls and see how the controls are set up, as you will need to remember them, this will be because you have an interface that just has your strength/magic/fatigue bars in the bottom left and compass in bottom right, and that's it! You'll be able to look around with a mouse, and to pick up an item or open a door, etc, you just have to left mouse-click on it!

Now, back to z.cfg: Add the following lines to the end of the config file:

cheatmode 1
repairmagic 1

The cheatmode 1 will enable you to escape from if/when you "fall through" the game scenery. Just use [ and ] to scroll through "quest rooms"until you get somewhere you want to carry on from. If you want to totally cheat you can find the quest room that has the quest item in it too!

The repairmagic 1 will enable you to get enchanted items repaired,just like normal items.

Hope this helps. :)

[villain of the story]

Uh... what? The only thing you need to do to have mouse-look and custom controls is to go into options from the game menu, choose "mouse-look" option there and remap the keys. Crazy, isn't it?

You don't sound like someone who could possibly have bought Daggerfall "when it came out". Your post reads like you have just discovered the game.

[UK_John]

Uh… what? The only thing you need to do to have mouse-look and custom controls is to go into options from the game menu, choose "mouse-look" option there and remap the keys. Crazy, isn't it?

You don't sound like someone who could possibly have bought Daggerfall "when it came out". Your post reads like you have just discovered the game.

Why go to the trouble of remapping all the keys to WASD, etc, when by changing betaplyr.dat to viewplyr.dat, the game will do it for you! You would have to click on Mouse to get mouse-look and options to choose VIEW mode then go into controls and change most/all the keys.

My method you change that file, then just check the new key controls and play! And you have to go into the z.cfg file to enter cheatmode 1 and magicrepair 1 anyway!

By the way, please explain what I said that makes you feel I didn;t buy this game when it come out? Because you think your system is better and mine worse? How egotistical!

[Dajjer]

By the way, please explain what I said that makes you feel I didn;t buy this game when it come out? Because you think your system is better and mine worse? How egotistical!

Really, especially since you stated in your initial post you got the game when it came out.

BTW, great post, I've been thinking about retrying Arena/Daggerfall (again) but all the other times it just doesn't work out. I will keep your post in mind if I reinstall. BTW2, I haven't checked in a while but there used to be a couple of web sites that dealt with old manuals (replacementdocs.com???). But its too early in the morn and I'm far too lazy right now to check it out . . . . :)

[UK_John]

Really, especially since you stated in your initial post you got the game when it came out.

BTW, great post, I've been thinking about retrying Arena/Daggerfall (again) but all the other times it just doesn't work out. I will keep your post in mind if I reinstall. BTW2, I haven't checked in a while but there used to be a couple of web sites that dealt with old manuals (replacementdocs.com???). But its too early in the morn and I'm far too lazy right now to check it out . . . . :)


Replacementdocs had to pull all their Bethesda manuals on Bethesda's say-so. So you won't find the manuals there!

I think many more of those downloading the free version would have played it longer if they had had the manual, for a start, the manual points out how playing in VIEW mode is so much better! It also points out you should only re-load when you die, as the game is designed for you to make mistakes. Without the manual, I wonder how many people who downloaded the free version just took the first quest given to them because they didn't think they could say "no" because the game would say "lost" like in a modern game,meaning they took on a quest way too hard. I see no logical reason for Bethesda holding back on the Arena and Daggerfall manuals. It seems silly to me! :)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

The only reason I could think of for holding back the manuals are

- (perhaps unsolved) copyright problems (maybe someone wrote them who had left them afterwards ?)

- fuel buying of the full games (which would come with the manuals, then, I guess)

[villain of the story]

Why go to the trouble of remapping all the keys to WASD, etc, when by changing betaplyr.dat to viewplyr.dat, the game will do it for you! You would have to click on Mouse to get mouse-look and options to choose VIEW mode then go into controls and change most/all the keys.

My method you change that file, then just check the new key controls and play! And you have to go into the z.cfg file to enter cheatmode 1 and magicrepair 1 anyway!

By the way, please explain what I said that makes you feel I didn;t buy this game when it come out? Because you think your system is better and mine worse? How egotistical!

This doesn't even make any sense. Quickly changing settings from within the game vs. editing a game file. Less steps of action vs. more steps of action. WTF?

Besides, have you ever tried pressin F10 in the game? It switches the interface between full and minimum, eg. that "bars and compass only" isn't a magic game-file hack, it's a game feature that is in the game by default. Even the manual tells you about this.

But of course, for some of us, redding is teh hard, it seems.