X - Rebirth

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Hello, everyone,

well, it seems that Egosoft does kind of a "reboot" of the X series ? I don't quite understand everything right now, but fact is, they have started a new game : "X Rebirth".

Link : http://www.x-rebirth.com
Trailer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LabrDe4XJo0

According to the brand new newsletter, the Premiere is scheduled to be on the Fed Con in Germany next weekend ...
I won't go there, because it just is too expensive for me ...

But I'm still curious ...

The game goals will remain the same - in principle, says the newsletter. But it also says that the new game will contain many new things they just couldn't implement in the old games ...

Alrik

[Von Paulus]

Good news. We have a deficit of space games.

[Roi Danton]

Good news. We have a deficit of space games.

Yes we do. But sadly (or thankfully for those who like it) X is more Elite than Wing Commander. :( To much trading and talking and not enough shooting and story stuff.

Ha, no matter. I'll just continue playing Fresspace 2.

[Nerevarine]

Yes we do. But sadly (or thankfully for those who like it) X is more Elite than Wing Commander. :( To much trading and talking and not enough shooting and story stuff.

Ha, no matter. I'll just continue playing Fresspace 2.

Have you played Darkstar One? It pales in comparison to Freespace 2, but it's still a fun and solid game that is good for a space sim fix. Also, it focuses more on the combat or "mercenary" side than the economical side - which is a big plus in my book when it comes to space sims. I'd much rather be a badass fighter pilot than a glorified stockbroking agent/errand boy ;) (I say that despite the fact that X3 ate up more hours of my life than I'd like to share and is an incredible game :))

[Roi Danton]

Have you played Darkstar One? It pales in comparison to Freespace 2, but it's still a fun and solid game that is good for a space sim fix. Also, it focuses more on the combat or "mercenary" side than the economical side - which is a big plus in my book when it comes to space sims. I'd much rather be a badass fighter pilot than a glorified stockbroking agent/errand boy ;) (I say that despite the fact that X3 ate up more hours of my life than I'd like to share and is an incredible game :))

Yeah, I actually bought Darkstar One on release day and enjoyed it. I'll plan to buy the GOG version as soon as I have time to play it again.

The thing is: I don't mind a bit of trading and stuff, I just want a good campaign (aka Freelancer or Privateer). And I just don't understand why there aren't at least one or two moderate to big budget space sims out there. With todays garphics (like X) it would be awesome and you could sell on consoles because the two analog sticks are good for playing stuff like that.

But whatever, I'm also waiting on a new Mech game. But there should at least be a Mechwarrior in development - unless they canceled it and I didn't notice.

[Nerevarine]

Yeah, I actually bought Darkstar One on release day and enjoyed it. I'll plan to buy the GOG version as soon as I have time to play it again.

The thing is: I don't mind a bit of trading and stuff, I just want a good campaign (aka Freelancer or Privateer). And I just don't understand why there aren't at least one or two moderate to big budget space sims out there. With todays garphics (like X) it would be awesome and you could sell on consoles because the two analog sticks are good for playing stuff like that.

But whatever, I'm also waiting on a new Mech game. But there should at least be a Mechwarrior in development - unless they canceled it and I didn't notice.

I just started playing Darkstar One last week, and I'm also enjoying it so far. My big complaint so far (and this may change as I get farther in the game) is that enemy fighters are a lot slower than the player, which takes a little bit of the thrill away dog-fights. Still, it's a fun game that seems well-made and well-designed. It's a real shame that the developer who made it went out of business before getting a chance to make a sequel to flesh the game out.

I completely understand where you are coming from with the economical aspects. I like to have it there and with solid depth included, but some games force the player to focus far too much on that side instead of creating exciting random encounters (Darkstar) or well-crafted, thrilling campaign missions (Freespace 2).

Sadly, the space-sim genre is all but dead…Darkstar One and X3 are the only recent space-sims to come out - and I believe Darkstar was released in 2006! It is confusing, because as you've pointed out, with the technology that is available, a developer could make a truly amazing space-sim almost as a "spiritual successor" to Elite, Wing Commander, and Freespace. Sadly, the need to have a joystick seems to limit the potential market for space-sims on the PC, and it's already a niche market to begin with. I'm not sure how well a space-sim would do on a console either; they might have two analog sticks available, but every space-sim I've played requires a lot of different button presses throughout the keyboard that would make mapping a control scheme very difficult (but not impossible) on a console controller. Still, one can only hope that the genre will be revived - I'm sure there are a lot of people that would love another Freespace 2 experience.

[Roi Danton]

I just started playing Darkstar One last week, and I'm also enjoying it so far. My big complaint so far (and this may change as I get farther in the game) is that enemy fighters are a lot slower than the player, which takes a little bit of the thrill away dog-fights. Still, it's a fun game that seems well-made and well-designed. It's a real shame that the developer who made it went out of business before getting a chance to make a sequel to flesh the game out.

I completely understand where you are coming from with the economical aspects. I like to have it there and with solid depth included, but some games force the player to focus far too much on that side instead of creating exciting random encounters (Darkstar) or well-crafted, thrilling campaign missions (Freespace 2).

Sadly, the space-sim genre is all but dead…Darkstar One and X3 are the only recent space-sims to come out - and I believe Darkstar was released in 2006! It is confusing, because as you've pointed out, with the technology that is available, a developer could make a truly amazing space-sim almost as a "spiritual successor" to Elite, Wing Commander, and Freespace. Sadly, the need to have a joystick seems to limit the potential market for space-sims on the PC, and it's already a niche market to begin with. I'm not sure how well a space-sim would do on a console either; they might have two analog sticks available, but every space-sim I've played requires a lot of different button presses throughout the keyboard that would make mapping a control scheme very difficult (but not impossible) on a console controller. Still, one can only hope that the genre will be revived - I'm sure there are a lot of people that would love another Freespace 2 experience.

It should be no problem to make a space sim playable by mouse. Freelancer did this and I think I played Darkstar One with mouse. And I recently noticed that even Freespace 2 is playable by mouse although it's not nearly as good as with a joystick. I do think though that the control problems, also with regard to console controlers, could be solved by an intelligent control scheme. If it's possible to play RPGs like Oblivion or Fallout New Vegas and shooters on consoles than this shouldn't be problem. Tom Clancys Hawks for example works rather well (the game isn't good IMO, but that has nothing to do with controls).

Now that I think of it I would really like space combat with a Fallout-like pause function. That could also solve some of the control problems.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I would never buy a game that uses the mouse only.
That was my saddest "WTF ?!?!?!"-effect I had with a game : With Freelancer, that is.
I was sooo much looking forward to that game ! - And then - mouse support only. I hated it from that moment on.
And no matter what pople say, I outright refuse to play it that way.

[Thrasher]

What about Space Rangers 2? That looks like a lot of fun and variety, with the text adventures, RT mech missions, and arcade style black hole combats to mix things up.

[Nerevarine]

It should be no problem to make a space sim playable by mouse. Freelancer did this and I think I played Darkstar One with mouse. And I recently noticed that even Freespace 2 is playable by mouse although it's not nearly as good as with a joystick. I do think though that the control problems, also with regard to console controlers, could be solved by an intelligent control scheme. If it's possible to play RPGs like Oblivion or Fallout New Vegas and shooters on consoles than this shouldn't be problem. Tom Clancys Hawks for example works rather well (the game isn't good IMO, but that has nothing to do with controls).

Now that I think of it I would really like space combat with a Fallout-like pause function. That could also solve some of the control problems.

You're absolutely right, there's no reason why a space-sim can't utilize the mouse+keyboard effectively. However, I just personally feel that it doesn't do the experience justice when compared to using a joystick, but that's just my personal taste. You're also right about console controllers and the need for a creative control scheme (which is why I said it would be difficult, but certainly not impossible). I think Mass Effect actually had a very effective control scheme for managing several different abilities/actions/commands that simply could not be mapped to a controller's individual buttons. The "ability wheel" or something similar might just work for a space-sim on a console controller, especially if bringing the wheel up paused the game.

[Nerevarine]

I would never buy a game that uses the mouse only.
That was my saddest "WTF ?!?!?!"-effect I had with a game : With Freelancer, that is.
I was sooo much looking forward to that game ! - And then - mouse support only. I hated it from that moment on.
And no matter what pople say, I outright refuse to play it that way.

I also remember being disappointed in how Freelancer's gameplay was implemented, and the lack of being able to use a joystick. However, that was done very intentionally; I remember years ago reading a comment from a developer who said something along the lines of wanting to make Freelancer more accessible (as in, so people other than space-sim enthusiasts with joysticks would be interested in the game), and to achieve this, the game was designed to use just the mouse+ keyboard. I still enjoyed the game, but it really wasn't anywhere near as enjoyable as using a joystick in something like Freespace 2.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I do accept their design-decision; however, this decision is something I cannot live with, personally ...

(The bottom line is that I always had the feeling as if this was kind of "forced" by microsoft to push the sales of MS mice or so ...)

[Von Paulus]

Yes we do. But sadly (or thankfully for those who like it) X is more Elite than Wing Commander. :( To much trading and talking and not enough shooting and story stuff.

Ha, no matter. I'll just continue playing Fresspace 2.
Actually I'm an Elite fan, since I played it in C64.
But now I'm in a mood for a Wing Commander or a Tie-Fighter type. That would be nice.
If you play Freespace you will have soon Wing Commander Saga. My main problem with Freespace is the absence of cockpit. I've seen that they are modding that.

[dteowner]

What about Space Rangers 2? That looks like a lot of fun and variety, with the text adventures, RT mech missions, and arcade style black hole combats to mix things up.I had a good time with that one. Not the best game I've ever played, but I think I paid $20 for the boxed version and it was definately worth that loot. As you point out, there's more variety than your typical 4X game and some very light RPG aspects thrown in for good measure, which more than makes up for the somewhat simplistic design. Nice thing with it is that it's easy to play in bursts of different lengths- from the 20 minute quickie to the 8 hour marathon and it's not a major killer if you walk away from it for a week and then jump back in (unlike some TBS and RPG where you quickly lose your bearings if you're not playing every day or two).

[Thrasher]

Thanks, DTE! I may bump it up ahead of MoO2 and X3:Terran Conflict.

[inakaguy]

Very excited about this. Love the open world of the X series, but I would love to see some kind of system like the one in Mount and Blade, or going back, Sid Meier's Pirates, where you can take control of sectors for yourself or give them to one of the factions. I found in the X3 games, once I had a load of money and cap ships I ran out of things to do with them.

I also could not get into Freelancer because of the mouse controls. Just didn't feel right to me. Felt more like playing a game of missile defence.

[Zloth]

TIE fighters? X3's got them (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/MULRvSZzEU3ANQq3XuRs2w?feat=directlink)! (With a little modding. OK, a lot of modding. ;))

There is that whole EVE thing, too. Big time space game, though I've never played it.

Starpoint Gemini would be even more recent. (Though I wasn't having all that much fun in the first few hours.)

Anyway... I haven't gotten the newsletter yet but I'm reading the forums. Looks like they are going to smooth the learning curve a bit. "It gets easy... at first." They've also mentioned that you have a female companion, though that could be Betty, your shipboard computer. We'll know more next weekend.

Not much time left for me to finish that HUB plot.

[wiretripped]

Pretty trailer.

Actually, I'm thinking of trying my hand at the X games. They sound pretty neat, but which one would you recommend?
I prefer one of the more recent ones. Which one is better? X3: Reunion or X3: Terran Conflict?

[Zloth]

I would say X3:TC. Essentially, they are all the same game. Egosoft has been working on it for many years now, adding more features and fixing more bugs. Every few years the put a bunch of new features together with new plots and release it as the next version. (This whole 'rebirth' thing is them actually dumping the original game completely and starting fresh.) So I would say X3:TC simply because it's the most advanced version of the game.

Stay away from the Terran start. Terran space is neat but they've got all those super-huge stations with super-huge docking lanes so it takes forever to park. It's much more enjoyable in there after you've bought a Paranid docking computer.

[Tragos]

once I had a load of money and cap ships I ran out of things to do with them

Did you try to eliminate all races in the universe?

[wiretripped]

I would say X3:TC. Essentially, they are all the same game. Egosoft has been working on it for many years now, adding more features and fixing more bugs. Every few years the put a bunch of new features together with new plots and release it as the next version. (This whole 'rebirth' thing is them actually dumping the original game completely and starting fresh.) So I would say X3:TC simply because it's the most advanced version of the game.

Stay away from the Terran start. Terran space is neat but they've got all those super-huge stations with super-huge docking lanes so it takes forever to park. It's much more enjoyable in there after you've bought a Paranid docking computer.

Thanks for the hints. Cool then.
I'll wait for another sale at GG and pick it up, then. :)

[Maylander]

I really do like sci-fi and space sims, but like several have mentioned - I need a decent story in addition to all the travelling, trading and so on. My personal top three:
1. Freelancer
2. Starlancer
3. Darkstar One

A pretty clear indication on what I like. Unfortunately, the X series is simply not for me. I can always hope that Rebirth adds a little "Freelancer" to the series, but I strongly doubt that - the recipe has remained the same since the beginning of the series.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

There's also a game out there called "Yager", but i haven't played it yet. I only remember that it is kind of a "Fly-Sim" as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yager
http://www.mobygames.com/game/yager
Note that the English cover is VASTLY different from the German one !

[JDR13]

I really do like sci-fi and space sims, but like several have mentioned - I need a decent story in addition to all the travelling, trading and so on. My personal top three:
1. Freelancer
2. Starlancer
3. Darkstar One


I really need to try Freelancer again. I've had it for several years, and tried to get into it awhile back, but the controls felt arcadish and overly simplistic to me.

Starlancer was just a series of linear combat missions, right?

[DArtagnan]

Freelancer is almost as good as Privateer was, back in the day.

[Tragos]

Freelancer was 100% static , no new bases and there was no way either side could win the battle of omega 5...

If you really look to start playing it again try http://www.freelancerserver.de/ , it has way less psychopaths than let's say asgaard or crossfire

[Maylander]

I really need to try Freelancer again. I've had it for several years, and tried to get into it awhile back, but the controls felt arcadish and overly simplistic to me.

Starlancer was just a series of linear combat missions, right?

Yes it was, but the story was fairly interesting, probably the best I've seen in a space sim. The biggest drawback was the AI of your allies being just plain horrible - you practically fought solo despite flying out in a squad.

[DArtagnan]

Starlancer is the ideal coop space game :)

[Tragos]

Starlancer is the worst space sim ever released , i almost ate the CD during the "incoming torpedoes" mission

[Roi Danton]

Starlancer is the worst space sim ever released , i almost ate the CD during the "incoming torpedoes" mission

Yeah, I still have nightmares about that mission. Still, I like Starlancer and I'd actually buy it again if it were available on GOG.

[Maylander]

Starlancer is the ideal coop space game :)

Had no idea coop was possible. Is it possible to play through the campaign in coop mode?

Starlancer is the worst space sim ever released , i almost ate the CD during the "incoming torpedoes" mission

Yeah, that mission is a nightmare, especially since your squad mates refuse to help out.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Didn't have the second Add-On to TIE Fighter a similar mission ?

There were lots of torpedoes to be caught, and that by/with the own ship, which had loads of very fast rockets and torpedoes itself …

That whas the point where I broke up the game, many years ago …

[DArtagnan]

Had no idea coop was possible. Is it possible to play through the campaign in coop mode?

Yup :)

(Message too short)

[Zloth]

I really do like sci-fi and space sims, but like several have mentioned - I need a decent story in addition to all the travelling, trading and so on. My personal top three:
1. Freelancer
2. Starlancer
3. Darkstar One
What? No Idependence War?

Actually, that was a really rough game. I don't think I even finished it. I wonder if the second was dum... <ahem> made more accessable?

A pretty clear indication on what I like. Unfortunately, the X series is simply not for me. I can always hope that Rebirth adds a little "Freelancer" to the series, but I strongly doubt that - the recipe has remained the same since the beginning of the series.
The X series isn't for a lot of folks. They're going to be doing something about the learning curve to ease players into the game but I haven't heard much yet about the story. We'll have to see.

[Maylander]

What? No Idependence War?

Actually, that was a really rough game. I don't think I even finished it. I wonder if the second was dum… <ahem> made more accessable?


For some reason, I never liked Independence War (either one). I seem to recall whining about it around here somewhere, should be possible to dig up why I didn't like them. I think it had something to do with the controls or interface or some such thing. Maybe the lack of mouse support? I'm not sure.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I have it here (called "I-War" here), and i really thought it was an RTS game - from the title - that's why I've never played it ...