Should I play Ultima IX?

[DoctorNarrative]

So I am randomly collecting old PC games when I have the money and feel like it. I picked up Ultima IX complete on ebay for $10 and got it in the mail today. Lovely packaging, really deluxe.

Thing is I never played an Ultima game before… ever. I started RPGing in 1996-97 and all the Ultima games came out before that (except this one). Not sure why I did not play IX at the time but I was a busy younger man with much more of a social life than I have now so I didn't play every game that came out. In any case, I have Ultima IX now, so my question is…

Should I play it? By which I mean, should I play it relatively soon and without playing anything else in the series? The Witcher 2 is going to take up my gaming time starting next month but after that there should be an RPG gap, so I could fit it in then. Should I?

[JDR13]

You got the complete box and everything for $10? That's pretty lucky.

I think it's a neat game personally. Exploration is fun, and there's lots of stuff to interact with, and secrets to find. I found the combat to be sub-par, but combat has never been the strength of that series anyways. The controls are pretty clunky as well. I remember using a 3rd party program to adjust some things.

I've never played it to completion. I was thinking about going back to it later this year after a playthrough of U7.

I wouldn't say prior experience with the series is necessary. I've played 7 and 9, but never even tried U8, which most fans claim is pretty bad. You might not get some of the references, but I don't think it would really affect your enjoyment of the game.

[DoctorNarrative]

You got the complete box and everything for $10? That's pretty lucky.

When people put old PC games up as auctions they often go for really cheap. That's why most people put them up as buy it now purchases. A good way to get an old game cheap is to wait for someone to put it up as an auction, then bid low. You have a high chance of winning if no collectors stumble upon it during the auction window.

I got the original Mafia for 99cents a while back :D

[Corwin]

Well, personally my answer would be NEVER!! I hated the game. It was FAR too arcady for me, just like much of U8 which I also disliked. Understand, U7 (both parts) and UU2 are in my top 5 games EVER.

Assuming you do decide to play it, AT LEAST play U7 (both parts) first. I'd also suggest getting a copy of the original Dungeon Siege (usually available for $5) and then download Lazarus and U6P (both free) to play the updated versions of U5&6.

[Ergonpandilus]

Remember to patch up, mod up and backup a often.

But best starting point might be Lazarus or just recently released U6 Project.

About the order, there really is no matter since (most of) the games don't have strong continuation in story. But READ the manuals and especially the background stories, or u miss a lot. ;)

http://u6project.com/images/zoom/dev-gallery/viewsize/wrongdining12.jpg

[Gorath]

I liked U9 but stopped playing because my PC was too slow.

Don't forget to install the unofficial patches too. You want all the polish you can get.

[Korplem]

I'd say give it a shot. Definitely not the best Ultima but considering you haven't played the others, you probably wont be let down.

The game will fill you in on the backstory. And the world itself is sparsely populated (compared to say, U7) so there aren't a whole lot of references that you might not get.

[hishadow]

King's Quest: Mask of Eternity is also kind of similar to Ultima IX. I liked both of them but maybe more because I like adventure games.

I liked U9 but stopped playing because my PC was too slow.
I'm pretty sure there didn't exist any PC hardware that could run it adequately when it was released.

[DoctorNarrative]

I'd say give it a shot. Definitely not the best Ultima but considering you haven't played the others, you probably wont be let down.

The game will fill you in on the backstory. And the world itself is sparsely populated (compared to say, U7) so there aren't a whole lot of references that you might not get.

That sounds promising, thanks for that. I think the box has an entire book devoted to lore in it which I would read over during bathroom trips while I play ;)

[DArtagnan]

I really liked it at the time, and I still think the dungeons are some of the best in the genre.

Crappy combat and a cramped small world for the genre, it's still pretty good.

You'll want to use the 3rd party tool to configure some stuff - because vanilla is godawful in terms of making it behave correctly.

[Motoki]

The non TL;DR reply: You paid for it so play it at some point sure, but imho it would be better to play one of the older ones like Ultima 7 first so you can get a better idea of what Ultima was and could be at its best.

——-

I don't know. I guess if you bought it then play it but I really don't want you to get the idea that is what Ultima is since it is not the best Ultima game by a longshot. It was, in my opinion, a rather lackluster swang song for what once was one of the best RPG series ever. It was also the second game created in the era of EA, so keep that in mind.

It had an extremely long development cycle and there was quite a bit of drama behind the scenes about getting this game made. The direction changed several times and so did the team. Some people left in dismay and disappointment. I think the forum posts from Bob White may still be floating around somewhere.

Basically, Ultima 8 was the 'Dragon Age 2' of it's time. EA bought out the company and followed up what was a fantastic game with a lackluster and rushed, more fast paced, action-oriented game aimed at a young crowd. Just as with DA2 it caused a huge uproar and backlash. We then got promised a "Classic Brittanian Ultima" and Ultima 9 was eventually what we got. In my opinion, it falls far short of a Classic Brittanian Ultima, but it is at least an improvement over U8, which isn't saying much really.

As has been mentioned, the fans made an unofficial patch the fixes a lot of things and makes U9 more playable. Maybe someday someone can make an unofficial patch for DA2, if it's even possible to polish that turd.

If at all possible, I would highly recommended Ultima 7 and Ultima 7 part II prior to playing this game, or really any time at all. They are still to this day one of my top RPGs ever.

[zahratustra]

Basically, Ultima 8 was the 'Dragon Age 2' of it's time. EA bought out the company and followed up what was a fantastic game with a lackluster and rushed, more fast paced, action-oriented game aimed at a young crowd. Just as with DA2 it caused a huge uproar and backlash. We then got promised a "Classic Brittanian Ultima" and Ultima 9 was eventually what we got. In my opinion, it falls far short of a Classic Brittanian Ultima, but it is at least an improvement over U8, which isn't saying much really.
That's a perfect description Motoki! UIX is infamous for what was promised and what was delivered. What was there was buggy but good but there was so little of it…

There is a way (can't remember it now though) to unlock garbage pile left be UIX developers: unfinished bits, discarded ones, testing areas...

[Dark Savant]

Dungeons are great imo. If you like Gothic style games then you should play it. There are quite a few similarities with early Gothic games.

[Nerevarine]

The non TL;DR reply: You paid for it so play it at some point sure, but imho it would be better to play one of the older ones like Ultima 7 first so you can get a better idea of what Ultima was and could be at its best.



Because of this point here, I think that it might actually be better to play 9 first - there would be no expectations or preconceptions of what an Ultima game should be like, which would allow for a more open-minded outlook on the game. I say this from my experience with Deus Ex: Invisible War - I was unable to play the original on the computer I had back then, so I wound up playing Invisible War first. Because I didn't have any previous experience with the franchise to cloud my mind with certain expectations, I was able to enjoy Invisible War quite a lot, and I'm glad I was able to play it first; when I finally played the original about a year after Invisible War came out, I could easily see that the predecessor was a lot better than than its successor. I was still able to enjoy the sequel for what it was, however, in part because I had no expectations for what a Deus Ex game "should" have been like (and also because I'm generally very open-minded).

[Lucky Day]

I was thinking..one of U9's major problems was it was designed around the Voodoo card and the directx drivers were an afterthought. The latter had some serious memory leaks even after the second patch (I don't believe they worked at all at release). You could use software drivers eventually but they were horribly grainy.

The Origin team didn't foresee the collapse of 3dfx to its rival nVidia. So..what happens when you use Glide drivers - is there any improvement or change in quality? Glide drivers you may remember were 3dfx emulation designed for games and emulators that only support the 3dfx cards (for 3d rendering) such as Quake and the N64 emulator.

[Scrav]

For me, Ultima 9 was a fun adventure game with rpg elements. Despite what people say, I disagree with a need to play any of the Ultima 7 games. The Ultima 7 games are by far the best of the series, but there is absolutely no need to play them first. The story lines are loosely connected, but not dependent.

Just treat Ultima 9 more so as a standalone game and not necessarily as a benchmark for Ultima games.

[skavenhorde]

I'm surprised. I thought everyone's reaction would be HELL NO!!!

Since you guys seemed to enjoy it I was wondering if you encountered the same bug that ruined my game.

The fireball spell was bugged something aweful in my game. It would crash every now and then when I cast that spell. Did anyone else come across that annoying game breaker as well?

[DoctorNarrative]

Dungeons are great imo. If you like Gothic style games then you should play it. There are quite a few similarities with early Gothic games.

That makes it very tempting.

[zahratustra]

Just treat Ultima 9 more so as a standalone game and not necessarily as a benchmark for Ultima games.
"not necessarily"? I would have thought "certainly not" would be more appropriate…

[pibbur]

I go with Nerevarine, if you want to play a couple of Ultima games, play U9 first. It's not necessarly a bad game in itselft (I can't make up my mind here), but it's a very bad Ultima game, IMO. You don't need experience with the Ultima franchise to play U9. Actually, it's better if you don't have any. Going from, say u7 to U9, it's hard not to be affected by how much is missing. IMO.

If you want to play just one Ultima game, stay away from u9.

[Gokyabgu]

You can play U9, but don't forget to install unoffcial 1,09 patch. It solves lots of the bugs of the game and make it pretty playable. Exploration is fun and dungeon design is good in the game and you meet interesting people and quests along the way. And also it's the first game that I know of that combine RPG gameplay with third person action camera even before Gothic 1 and Morrowind. One of the weakest points of Ultima 9 is the RPG leveling system, which is very shallow I think. More like Zelda games. After nearly 10 years, game's graphics are still charming to me with lots of unique landscapes and interesting places to visit.

Also I have heard from some diehard Ultima fans that comparing to older Ultima games there're some inconsistencies in the lore of the game. Anyway, I suggest you to try it and see for yourself.

[Gokyabgu]

Some screenshots of the game, still looks good I think:

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/30248-ultima-ix-ascension-windows-screenshot-arrival-upon-the-strange.jpg

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/30247-ultima-ix-ascension-windows-screenshot-you-can-actually-see.jpg

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/17461-ultima-ix-ascension-windows-screenshot-the-book-of-ultimate.jpg

[Dasale]

Perhaps you choose well the snapshots but yes it looks good for me too, a lot more style than U7. But well I'll probably won't play it anyway, and for U7 until the fps are such a crap and it will be forever because it's just the game doesn't have much frames for movements so it's dead end for me.

For comparing DA2 to U8 it's forgetting quite fast that Bioware was already part of EA with DAO.

Also for me there's nothing that obvious on any side, ME2 is clearly dumbed down a lot when compared to ME1 but ME1 is an average game with too many weakness when ME2 is a rather unique game with an impressive amount of quality stuff and an overall design quality just close to best games.

[DoctorNarrative]

I'm hoping EA is GOG's mystery partner for the summer and they tweak the Ultima games to get them running well. Not sure if could deal with the older ones but I would buy Ultima VII in a heartbeat.

[TheMadGamer]

...but never even tried U8, which most fans claim is pretty bad.

An interesting FYI... U8 was the first ultima game with EAs involvement. Dragon Age 2 is the first Dragon Age game with EAs involvment. Interesting how the core fans of each series in two very different generations both experienced a 'lesser' experience once EA became involved. And also, since I brought it up, may Lands of Lore RIP (another EA tragedy).

[Ergonpandilus]

Ultima VIII: Pagan is indeed inferior as a rpg or Ultima game, but still I enjoyed it; the setting in twilight world, Tenebrae, cutscenes, memorable characters (Devon, Mythran and the titans) and last but not least the captivating background music. Nice puzzle adventure, but not recommended for Ultima experience.

Http://sergorn.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/u8execution.png

[DArtagnan]

I really liked Ultima 8 as well ;)

It was my first Ultima, in that I was too young for the first games - and I didn't have access to a working version of Ultima 5-6 on the Amiga.

I got my PC right around the time that U8 was released, and I considered it one of the best games at the time.

Looking back and comparing it with other games, most notably U7 - it definitely has issues. But I still think it's a pretty strong game if you don't mind a bit of hack/slash and you can get over that it's not a "pure" Ultima experience.

Naturally, compared with the world-simulation peak of U7 - it's just an action RPG with the Ultima name on it.

[skavenhorde]

That game gave me cravings for mushrooms that I have even today. I didn't care for them much before U8, but afterwards I loved them.

[Ergonpandilus]

That game gave me cravings for mushrooms that I have even today. I didn't care for them much before U8, but afterwards I loved them.

LOL :D

Well I never thought that games can give you lust for certain food, unless you are using them for recreational purposes.

Anyways I always thought hat the mushrooms looked as ugle as they come. And were found from the most curious places. :p
http://oldgames.ru/images/oldgames/screenshots/ultima8/ultima8_03.gif

[Scrav]

I remember very little of Ultima 8, despite completing it. I think it did something with the 4 elements of the world cliche and I do vaguely recall long caverns.

[Motoki]

The thing I remember most was the god damned floating platforms that went up and down and you had to jump to and dying many times. I gave the game (U8) the moniker Super Avatar Brothers because of this. I still shudder that EA tried to make an RPG into a platform jumper, but those were the sort of games that were popular at the time.

Eventually, they patched a number of things about the game (including those infernal platforms! They now just stayed in place instead of going up and down) and Richard Garriot himself had to put a note in with the patch basically apologizing for the game.

[Dasale]

Platforms that went up and down, jumps, instant death? That remind me something, ha yes DKS. Great RPG but it's better there isn't too many platforms like that, only a little bit isn't bad but I guess U8 abuse of it.

[TheMadGamer]

I remember very little of Ultima 8, despite completing it. I think it did something with the 4 elements of the world cliche and I do vaguely recall long caverns.

I'm the same as you. I played U8 and completed it (I even bought a brand new sparkling Pentium 1 60mhz just to play U8) but I don't remember that much about it really - Ultimas 1 through 7, I remember all those very well. But U8 was very 'meh' in my opinion. Even U9 was much better than U8.

[redman5427]

http://www.forgottenworld.de/index.php/screenshots/ultima-ix-patchs-and-forgotten-world-releases

This site has some newer patches plus fan made patches
Also they have a couple of projects going on for Ultima 9

How well does the game fare with Win7?

[skavenhorde]

LOL :D

Well I never thought that games can give you lust for certain food, unless you are using them for recreational purposes.

Anyways I always thought hat the mushrooms looked as ugle as they come. And were found from the most curious places. :p
http://oldgames.ru/images/oldgames/screenshots/ultima8/ultima8_03.gif

LOL,

Maybe a few recreational ones once upon a time.

But those dang things were everywhere. Blue mushrooms, purple mushrooms, mushroom trees, mushroom…everything. I had mushrooms on the brain while I was playing that game.

Although your right about the tall ones. I just ignored them.

I did like the new reagents you had to use. At least that was something different from the usual black pearl, spider silk, etc...

I hardly remember that much about this game though though I did pass it somehow. I remember I needed to get off that dang island, titans and pentagrams all over the place. Oh and the water was bad news. I must have fallen in there a hundred times throughout that game. Especially at this one spot trying to jump from rock to rock to get some axe that ways lying on a rock in the middle of a underground lake. Took me awhile, but I jumped my way across and back again.

[DoctorNarrative]

How well does the game fare with Win7?

I haven't tried to install it yet. I have an XP partition for when 64bit Win7 gives me a problem with an old game though.

I'm really eager for better virtual machine software, or even straight-up early Windows emulation. I would love to have something like DosBox for Windows 3.1 or 95 games.

[skavenhorde]

Virtual PC (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/)

I use that for my Win98 games that I can't get running. It doesn't come with the OS though. I still have my Win98 OS and just load that into it.

I heard some good things about Virtualbox (http://www.virtualbox.org/) I have never used it though so can't tell you much about it other than the homepage :)

[DoctorNarrative]

I know those things already exist but they don't do 3D games that well right now in my experience. They're probably getting better all the time though.

[DArtagnan]

For the limited era of 95/98 3D games - you're pretty screwed if they're not compatible with XP and beyond.

Mostly because that was right around the time when 3DFX was dominant in terms of 3D acceleration, and needed the Glide drivers. Beyond that, the early Direct3D stuff is probably not too easy to emulate through software - so VMWare and Virtual PC won't help much. Both solutions are primarily for application and server stuff, and definitely not gaming.

You'd probably need actual hardware for full compatibility.

Thankfully, not a lot of great Windows 3D games came out during that time.

[skavenhorde]

It may not be for gaming, but it works. It is the only way I can get some of these things to run. If I can't get Wizards & Warriors running in my normal OS I can always just VPC.

[Motoki]

Hmm, did a quick search and found a recent post (last month) of someone claiming to have U9 working on Win7 64 with a Glide wrapper:

http://www.zeus-software.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=224

The author of the wrapper has Ultima 9 on the list as playable. I noticed a couple of other games of note on there too. Wizardy 8 and Divine Divinity.

http://www.zeus-software.com/downloads/nglide/compatibility

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Look here as well : http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12835

[Dark Savant]

Amazing. Works like a charm in glide mode, max settings on my three years old laptop.
I will try this wrapper on Lands of Lore 2&3 as they both look much better in glide as in direct3D.

[JDR13]

Amazing. Works like a charm in glide mode, max settings on my three years old laptop.

What OS are you running, and how high of a resolution did you try? Does it actually look different than in D3D?

[DArtagnan]

I seem to recall games both looking better and, especially, performing better with Glide drivers back in the day, but it's been too long for me to be certain.

If we can get LoL2 to work well like this, I'd be very interested to know.

[Dark Savant]

I am on windows 7 HP with latest nvidia drivers. You can set only two resolutions is glide mode 640X480 and 800X600 in Ultima 9 configurator. But you can set higher resolutions in nGlide configurator. Looks a bit stretched but I can live with it as it runs smoother than in direct3d. Max resolution on my notebook is 1280x800. It also looks a lot more sharper in Glide mode imo. I am running latest unofficial patch 1.19g

Here are some pics from early stage

glide 800x600
http://i56.tinypic.com/jab2mt.jpg

glide 1280x800 (nglide stretched)
http://i52.tinypic.com/2nrnf2t.jpg

D3D 1280x800
http://i54.tinypic.com/2ikf8lk.jpg

[GothicGothicness]

I wounder what an origin game would look like if they released it today? I mean they were about 3 years ahead of the competition with most of their games....

Perhaps it would run okay on an I7 with GTX 790 and 32 GB ram too........... :D

[DArtagnan]

Don't be cruel and bring up my beloved Origin!

[GothicGothicness]

I should say 3 years ahead on graphics and. So far 18 years ahead on gamedesign. :D ( Ultima IX not included )

[Dark Savant]

If we can get LoL2 to work well like this, I'd be very interested to know.No luck with LOL2 but I posted on official forum and we will see if it can run under glide. It is strange as he mentions you must run it with 'lolg95.exe' but LOL2 has glide only in DOS. Direct3D has well known black boxes around textures in W7 & nvidia combination.

On the other hand Lands of Lore 3 works like a charm under glide.:D

[blatantninja]

I always try to say something nice about Ultima IX, as it IS an Ultima game, whether we like it or not! So I will put forth that the sunsets in the game have still rarely been rivaled today. NWN2 is pretty close in a few areas of the rendering of the night sky, but that's about it.

I think that what killed me on U9 wasn't the plot (which I thought was so-so even with the fan patch, and definitely bad compared to the 'Bob White' plot), the combat/interaction (yes arcade like, but I could have dealt with it), or even the magic system (bleh). It was that this beautiful, intricate world felt positively empty.

All of the previous Ultima's had felt huge. Each town, while maybe not having a sustainable population in real life, felt very busy for a computer town, and each incarnation was better than the previous. Britain in U7 is a virtual metropolis (though I didn't care for what the did to Yew in U7).

But in U9, it feels like there are just a few people scattered here an there. It seems like there are less than 60 characters in the entire world! I distinctly remember the 'town meeting' in Britain. The largest city in Britain had a total of 5 people, IIRC, at the town meeting.

The spaces were huge, but unpopulated. I found it depressing. I ended up playing through the game, just sort of hoping for some sense of closure to the series. Instead, I was literally angry playing the game by the end, but I had just kept holding out that the ending would provide some pay off.

And the whole sequence at the end of sending your companions out to the pillars and such just seemed rushed and inconsistent to the old Ultimas)

I ended up loading BG that night and started playing again just to get myself in a good mood and try to erase the stench of U9 from my memory.

I REALLY wish the DS teams that made Lazarus and U6: P would have instead focused their effort on making a proper Ultima IX (though I enjoyed both of their efforts immensely).

[Motoki]

I always try to say something nice about Ultima IX, as it IS an Ultima game, whether we like it or not!


*grumble grumble* ;)


I think that what killed me on U9 wasn't the plot (which I thought was so-so even with the fan patch, and definitely bad compared to the 'Bob White' plot)…


I really, really, REALLY wish we had gotten the Bob White plot. That's probably my biggest regret and disappointment in all my years of playing games.

[JDR13]

What's this "Bob White plot" I keep hearing about, and who the hell is Bob White?

[Motoki]

He was lead designer on U9 at one point. One of several. He ended up leaving but detailed what one of the discarded plots for the game would have been:

http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Bob_White_Plot

[blatantninja]

The development history listed there is very interesting. The 3-D isometric game looked like it would have been really amazing. Stupid Ultima Online!

[Gokyabgu]

Look here as well : http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12835

What's Nglide? A driver for using Glide API in Nvidia cards? Wizardz&Warriors is buggy and unplayable in Direct3d mode. Maybe with this I can play the game on glide mode. But, I'm afraid of messing with my graphic card driver.

[Motoki]

What's Nglide? A driver for using Glide API in Nvidia cards? Wizardz&Warriors is buggy and unplayable in Direct3d mode. Maybe with this I can play the game on glide mode. But, I'm afraid of messing with my graphic card driver.

It translates Glide to D3D so any card that can run D3D can then run Glide games. As far as I know, you shouldn't have to do anything with your video card drivers to use it.

[Dark Savant]

Wizardz&Warriors is buggy and unplayable in Direct3d mode. Maybe with this I can play the game on glide mode. But, I'm afraid of messing with my graphic card driver.W&W does not support glide mode, just D3D. There are really few RPG games or games with some RPG elements and glide support.

To name few

Lands of Lore 2&3
Redguard
Ultima 9
Deathtrap Dungeon
Dungeon Keeper 2
King's Quest: Mask of Eternity
Heretic&Hexen 2
Hype: The Time Quest