How should we treat each other?

[abbaon]

'"Don't be a dick" (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_a_dick) is the fundamental rule of all social spaces', says Wikipedia. It's true. So what is the standard for dickish (hereafter "inappropriate") behaviour here? I know we have some sort of rule against flaming, but I'm not talking about rules. I'm asking:

How do we, as the users of this forum, expect each other to behave?

I'd like to know what you think. Subordinate questions could include:


When, if ever, does a heated argument cross the line into inappropriateness?
What, if anything, should we refrain from saying about people outside the forums?
Do we have an obligation to be civil to one another?
What sort of language do you not want to see?
Do industry insiders and other celebrity members merit a different standard of treatment?
What behaviours, if they became commonplace, would make this a place you wouldn't want to visit?

I know how I'd answer those questions, but I don't want to inadvertently constrain the discussion to my answers, so I'll hold off for a page or two. And, please, let's have no-one wondering whether they're the right person to tell other people how to act. If you care at all about the sort of social environment you participate in, you have an opinion. Please share.

Edit: Oh, and I had one request. We should try to discuss this without casting aspersions on or drawing unflattering comparisons to anyone else's forum. That looks like the quickest way to derail the conversation. And it's just rude. :)

[magerette]

When, if ever, does a heated argument cross the line into inappropriateness?
What, if anything, should we refrain from saying about people outside the forums?
Do we have an obligation to be civil to one another?
What sort of language do you not want to see?
Do industry insiders and other celebrity members merit a different standard of treatment?
What behaviours, if they became commonplace, would make this a place you wouldn't want to visit?
[/LIST]


I'll oblige and give my usual 'Mistress of the Obvious' perception :

Yes, we have an obligation as civilized human beings to be civil and respect other people's boundaries. You will never persuade anyone to consider your point of view if you isolate theirs as "moronic' or whatever cheap and flashy epithet you use to indicate your own superiority.

A heated argument crosses the line when it degenrates into personal and unsubstantiated insult.

Language is very much in the eye of the beholder--I personally have no problem with anglo-saxon barnyard terms and their equivalent, as long as they are used to drive home a valid point or as humor, to defuse an otherwise terse comment--or as just the obvious case of someone's personal style.
Language that is stereotypically and personally offensive is another thing. and relates to the whole idea of what a forum discussion is about. Is it about showing off how bright you are at someone ele's expense, or is it an exchange of viewpoints that can enlarge your understanding of a topic? Slinging insults that humiliate the object is easy,tasteless and rude,(though sometimes amusing) but the end result is an erosion of the user's own credibility.

Industry insiders should be treated with whatever respect they merit as individuals. They should neither be singled out as scapegoats for one's personal issues with the gaming industry, nor lauded as demi-gods whose every word is gold because of their insider status.

Finally, what behaviours would run me personally off--the behaviours forum members here hardly ever display: arrogance, clique-ish negativity and hazing, lack of respect, and that invidious internet hobby, trolling.


Bottom line: There should be the freedom to state your opinion,the willingness to marshall the facts to refute a different opinion, and the grace to rise above stating the opinions that might set you firmly on the path to being a dick. :)

[Corwin]

I agree with all of the above!! :)

Remembering that this is a 'family' site; teens and younger read it, I believe that the language should be appropriate. I, personally, abhor foul language, what would you expect, I'm a retired minister!! :)
The line here is determined by the mods. We don't want to stifle 'strong' debate, so when it's veering towards that line, you might notice we give a gentle warning (such as cool it a little guys). Personal attacks, or derogatory comments about a person should never occur, unless they are part of a humourous exchange:- note the banter between Bart, CM and myself as an example.
Bottom line, we want everyone to enjoy coming here and participating in the life of the site. Sometimes we will deliberately try to stir up controversy and debate, but we expect people to discuss the issues, not each other. Have FUN and if something bothers you, PLEASE let one of us know either in the forums, or via PM. We will do something about it!!

[Jaz]

(...) we expect people to discuss the issues, not each other about sums it up :). Though nobody would try to prevent a couple of loverbirds from exchanging sweet compliments (I was thinking of Corwin and Cm, of course).

[abbaon]

The line here is determined by the mods.
Just to reiterate: I'm not inquiring after the site's official policies, but encouraging the users to talk about what they want from each other. There are no wrong answers.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Number 1 Rule : Don't be a Troll.

On a more serious note I believe you all should keep in mind that this is an international forum. Things that are formulated in a certain way might sound offensive to members of different countries, and thus different cultures.

So, we can't simply say "English is English", because different people from differtent culktures speaking differently the English language might transport subtle tones (or tunes) within it that are typical for them and might not be understood at all by others.

Just an example : The article/rule abbaon linked to says "don't be a dick".

Some members of other cultures might not be able to understand what a dick actually is. The article in itself doesn't even explain it !

I mean, it's called a "dick", so why not a "troll", a "llama" or a "skunk" ? Why "dick" ? So with not explaining the question why this word wasn't used, the makers of this article give themselves an good example on how NOT to write absolutely basic articles.

Basic ideas must be explained first. Or they won't be understood by everyone (well, by the majority, yes, but what's about those not belonging to the majorioty ? Can I punish someone just because he doesn't understand a thing, or is not able read at all ? (What I know in German language as "Analphabetismus".)

("Dick" means "fat" in the German language, by the way.)

[Jaz]

Can I punish someone just because he doesn't understand a thing, or is not able read at all ? (What I know in German language as "Analphabetismus".)That would be illiteracy.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Thanks. I didn't know the proper term.

[Cm]

I have to agree with the others. I expect respect. No one should be attacked for expressing an opinion that others don't share. I won't visit sites that allow foul language. (By this I mean the vulgar "four letter" words.) Treat each other like you would a family member. Teasing and joking are fun. And if you don't understand how someone meant what they said, just ask. The greatest aspect of the site is that despite our being from different parts of the world, we always make the effort to respect one another and understand each other. :)

[narpet]

As a long time lurker, I have to say that the community here is much more friendly than many other RPG (or other) forums that I have visited. There are many places (that I won't name) where foul language, flaming, and outright nastiness are the norm. So it's nice to be able to visit a place dedicated to my favorite hobby where you can state your opinion, and it will be accepted (if not agreed with).

Salute to the post'ers and moderators here, and I mean that.

narpet

[dteowner]

I think a lot of it boils down to folks not looking for a reason to get angry. Back in the NFG days, Gig and I had a couple rather nasty discussions, to the point where other members were getting uncomfortable about it. The beautiful thing is that neither of us took any offense to what was being said. It was a clinical, if scorching, debate of the topic at hand and nobody's feelings got hurt.

Particularly when dealing with a multinational forum where English is regularly a second language, there's bound to be times when someone has the opportunity to take something badly. When there's a "benefit of the doubt" approach by posters, a lot of nastiness can be avoided.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

My very personal impression is that things are much more familiar and personal here. This is one of the few forums where everyone knows everyone, in a way. ;)

[Myrthos]

We moderated the RPGDot forums to death. Too many rules, too many guidelines. We promised ourselves this would not happen to these forums and decided to only stop the really excessive behaviour. There is a large variety as to what excessive bahaviour is, but we found a simple way of detecting it; If Gorath thinks its excessive it most likely is :)

The behaviour on a forum is not different from how you behave in real life. There are idiots in real life as well, these forums are no exception to that rule. The idiots are just as welcome as the so called normal ones are. The normals can only exist because there are idiots just as the idiots exist because of the normals.

[HiddenX]

As an international writer (English is only my second language) I have sometimes difficulties in recognizing the subtleties (*) of the english language.

I am writing in rather simple sentences to avoid errors.

These two websites are helping a lot:
http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/

(*) or is it intricacies ???

[magerette]

As an international writer (English is only my second language) I have sometimes difficulties in recognizing the subtleties (*) of the english language.

I am writing in rather simple sentences to avoid errors....

(*) or is it intricacies ???

Probably both.:)
My hat's off * to all the posters who can make themselves understood in a second language--I took six years of French and two of Japanese in school and I wouldn't even attempt to have a discussion in either one with native speakers. Most of those posting here do better than some for whom English is their only language. :)

I know I for one get rather involved when I write, so please never hesitate to ask for clarification.
(* Hat removed as gesture of courtesy or respect)

[Corwin]

I think too that the staff here is open to comments from others. If you don't like something I say, I'm not going to ban you, I'm going to debate the issue with you, unless you resort to insulting or offensive language, which is really admitting you don't actually have a genuine argument!! :)

[Gorath]

Wait, can we no longer enforce a compromise by threatening to ban the heretic?

[Jaz]

:rotfl: You crack me up!

[Dr. A]

Corwin threatened to ban me when I said something naughty one time...meanie *sniffle* ;)

Anyway like some say, the forums here are really mature and relatively troll free. Great place to discuss games without mud-slinging and childish taunts. *cough*gamespot*cough* Could be due to a "mature" age median, I guess.

How old is the youngest RPGWatch member anyway? I'm a 27yr old geezer myself. :)

[Jaz]

Hm, I remember we made a poll back at the Dot; there were two age peaks, actually... one at 24 and one at 40 (or 42, I don't remember the exact details).

[Danicek]

I would say that there are two types of trolls. When the community is mature enough, members of the first type can be either changed or driven away without enforcing anything by bans or other such tools. And then there are always people I would call "forum raiders", they came to destroy. They can be easily recognized and banned.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Hm, I remember we made a poll back at the Dot; there were two age peaks, actually... one at 24 and one at 40 (or 42, I don't remember the exact details).

Very interesting ! We discussed a thing on the Drakensang forums and I presented my theory that action RPGs are rather favoured by a younger generation - and more mature games by an older generation.


Aprops "mature games" : Lar of Larian studios had once said something that their next game might become rather mature - containing so-called "moral dilemmas". Or so I understood it.

[Danicek]

And the so called "mature" tend to have less time for playing games than the teens. That would explain why we are so unefficient target cathegory.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Yes, that's right.