Pool of Radiance-Unsafe at Any Price?

[magerette]

I've spotted Pool of Radiance:Ruins of Myth Drannar for $12.90. I've heard that this is the all time worst dnd game ever made, but I am still tempted. Has anyone got anything positive to say about it?

Also, does anyone know if they've fixed the "wipe out all the files on your hard drive" issue?

Is it worth twelve bucks or would I be better off hitting myself in the head with a hammer?

[JDR13]

Try the demo, it's only an 89 mb download. Experience the suckiness for yourself:)



http://browse.files.filefront.com/Pool+of+Radiance+Ruins+of+Myth+Drannor+Official+De mos/;1367264;/browsefiles.html

[Corwin]

I'd love to tell you all the great things about PoR2, but I cannot tell a lie!! :)
Actually, the best experience in the whole game, is the joy you feel when you delete it from your HD!!

[dteowner]

From everything I've heard over the years, go with the hammer.

[magerette]

Thanks guys--you're my Twelve Step Program to overcome my CGDS*. I will Just Say No, since it hurts less than the hammer route.


And if withdrawal sets in, I can always download the demo.Thanks JDR13

*Crappy Game Dependecy Syndrome

[txa1265]

Consider this - that is $3 more than what a new copy of Divine Divinity would cost you now ... and then take the hammer. Twice.

Seriously, I wouldn't pay more than $5 (incl shipping) for it.

[Corwin]

Actually, I'd want them to pay ME more than $5 plus shipping just to get them to pollute my PC with it once more!!

[KazikluBey]

I considered getting it despite the reviews when it was relatively new, but that bug which could erase your harddrive when uninstalling made me sure to stay away.

[Wulf]

Well nothing puts me off trying a worthy game....never has, never will...i'll even contemplate a full HDD format on trying....i will not shy away.....being a 'true-to-the-cause' gamer. :)

Many of the earlier poor reviews of PoR resulted from extreme bugginess to the point of unplayability yet when i played recently with the last made patch (v1.4) installed i found no problems whatsoever but the game can be titled "extremely boring" to many. this was mainly due to the long wait for opponents to get to their respective combat positions (especially zombies!) prior to the turn based combat moves...there is a speed adjuster bar that can speed up this in-game process but in doing this there comes a point where extreme dexterity with the mouse is required for selecting the as-you-go combat and magics speed, i often missed a turn by not being quick enough at the higher speed setting....you have to mouse-click to open characters menu, scroll and select one of the many spells or attribute skills from a list of many...all in a few seconds..per character!
The game-play story in essence is fairly good, with devious twists and detour decisions. I would suggest reading some earlier reviews to get a better picture.

I enjoyed much of the older SSI style using the dungeon and dragons third edition rules (simplified)
.................................
http://www.poolofradiance.com/index.html

[SPOILER]
All you could wish to know on PoR, hints/walkthrough/codes etc' (via the main page links)
http://www.thecomputershow.com/computershow/reviews/poolofradiance.htm

[HiddenX]

I have played through it some years ago, the bugs are fixed. In the patched version it is an average/good game. Many slow turn based AD&D-battles. If you are patient enough, slowly a not so bad story is developing and the fun begins.

You have to invest 20 hours into the game before you are able to enjoy it.

Similar: Temple of Elemental Evil

[Corwin]

Yeah, but those 20 hours, just gets you through the first battle!! :)

[ToddMcF2002]

Temple of Elemental Evil is better. However... there are plenty of people that think POR2 is quite good, but certainly not a majority of RPG players. If it sucked so bad the ubi forums would be dead. Yes the game has slow combat especially early on with the undead. But hey, its a turn based D&D game where tactics matter. Once you start facing the Drow, I guarantee you certainly won't be complaining that the combat is slow!

I've played the whole campaign and I really enjoyed it. I think POR2 (the patched version) is an ignored gem of a game. Its one of those rare games where the 2nd half of the game is literally twice as good as the first. I can't lie though - you'll be almost 60 hours into it before you reach the 2nd half! Its one of the longest games you'll ever play.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/993107392

[Alrik Fassbauer]

If you are patient enough, slowly a not so bad story is developing and the fun begins.

I regard "slowly" as an broad understatement.

The endless tunnels killed the fun for me. Only *much*, much later, as the party reached the surface, the fun began, for my own taste.


(P.S. : Uh, I just wrote "borat understatement" ... *sweats*)

[magerette]

Wipe your brow, Alrik--you're doing fine :) You don't want to hear me try to speak German.;)

I appreciate all the input. I thought I had read a few positive statements here and there. I enjoy tactical combat, 3rd edition dnd, and ToEE is one of my more favorite combat styles--another very buggy game initially, tho.

Does anyone know if the demo has any hard-drive issues?

@Corwin--yes, as one approaches the Twilight Years, 20 hours can mean a lot!

[JemyM]

I did not experience any bugs with PoR2. I was turned off by the slooooow battles. I tried long and hard, but the frustration just grew in me until I could not take another endless fight. PoR2 remains as one of very few RPG's I have discontinued before finishing it.

[ToddMcF2002]

There is nothing wrong with the demo. I've played it.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I played the demo, too. It was without bugs, as far as I know.

I didn't know about the "hard drive wipe" bug, so I was seemingly just lucky I followed my habit to patch *everything* before playing it ... ;)

I still can't imagine how THIS bug could've come into a final game ... *shakes head*

Besides, if you really like tactical combat, then you might like it. :)

And if you didn't mind running around in Keepsake, then the dungeons won't be of any problem for you. ;)

[ToddMcF2002]

If I recall, the hard drive bug was about installing it on a different partition. Easily missed in testing if you ask me - and very unfortunate for the devs and UBI.

I have unistalled POR2 retail twice without issue. The bug was patched long ago!

[txa1265]

Temple of Elemental Evil is better.

And I think that sums up quite nicely why I've never managed to give it what I'd call a 'fair shot'.

[ToddMcF2002]

And I think that sums up quite nicely why I've never managed to give it what I'd call a 'fair shot'.

Yeah well ToEE is also 4x shorter and I was left wanting more. So if you want turn based DnD, lets see... POR2 or... POR2?

I've put the infinity games in "turn based" mode and it just doesnt cut it tactically.

[magerette]

Thanks to all for the advice, links and answers to my questions. I feel like I have an Angel whispering in one ear and the Devil in the other ;)
I'll download the demo and see what it's like before throwing my twelve bucks out into the wind. It's not like there are dozens of single-player dnd games out there that I haven't played.

[ToddMcF2002]

If you find the combat too slow keep in mind there is a community speed patch. I've never used it and I don't know if it works with the demo but it is out there.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I have unistalled POR2 retail twice without issue. The bug was patched long ago!

With or without patch ?

I mean - what do people do without any patch ?

Nowadays it's relatively easy to download numerous patches via the internet, but back then ... you actually had to look whether a gaming mag's CD-ROM carried the patch, or you had to endure quite a long time with downloading via Modem.

[Stanza]

I think the one significant patch caveat is that there is a special downloaded installer that you have to use to correctly install it without invoking the overly-hyped "deletes your operating system" bug.

And just to make certain no one ever pays attention to anything I ever say again: I really enjoyed the game. Granted, my opinion was biased by having just uninstalled NWN out of disgust at how it butchered so many D&D rules and wouldn't even let you have a party. Then PoR2: party-based, turn-based, etc. After NWN, it was a wonderful experience.

Of all the reputed bugs with PoR2, the one thing I really took issue with was a design decision: SSI (or one of the two other completely different teams that took turns making the game) decided to bias the die rolls. Expect to have your party roll 1-5 on a d20 about 50-75% of the time, while monsters will hit you half of the time, even if they need to roll 18s better. That was annoying.

[ToddMcF2002]

Dec 2001 - the game is not THAT old. Come on Quake 2 had internet patches in 1997.

[Lucky Day]

The Demo is actually not as bugged as the released version and they both had the same version number.

For the first week it went on sale it was the best selling game.

Honestly, I really liked my copy. I got the Collectors Edition.

It was $20, came with the PnP module, a bag of d20 dice and a music CD and cool looking box. All in all a great buy. One of these I might install the game.

Still, its probably better than the Gold Box version even if it does corrupt my OS.

[txa1265]

Yeah well ToEE is also 4x shorter and I was left wanting more. So if you want turn based DnD, lets see... POR2 or... POR2?

I understand and don't disagree - I just am saying that playing ToEE then starting PoR2 and finding it similar yet slower and uglier made it hard to persevere, so I didn't ... and have never gotten back to it.

[bjon045]

Of all the reputed bugs with PoR2, the one thing I really took issue with was a design decision: SSI (or one of the two other completely different teams that took turns making the game) decided to bias the die rolls. Expect to have your party roll 1-5 on a d20 about 50-75% of the time, while monsters will hit you half of the time, even if they need to roll 18s better. That was annoying.

You should trying playing Buck Rogers:Matrix Cubed by SSI. Even with a -10 armour class you still get hit by even the weakest monster ALL the time. Your rocket launchers(5d10) and plasma throwers(4d10) nearly always seem to hit for around 20 damage or under while the enemies will nearly always hit for over 30. A little bit annoying but the rest of the game and the fact that it is a pretty good turn based combat system make up for it.

[Corwin]

Played that game YEARS ago, when it first game out!! Had a lot of fun once I caught on to the tactics you needed to use!!

[mute]

Yay! Another POR2 thread! :)

Considering that i played POR2 more then both Gothic 3 and NWN 2 this autumn not everybody hates it. It is a thread somewhere here where there is some positive points at this game.

[Arma]

Well, ToEE may be shorter, but has great replay value with all the mods out there (never actually managed to get to them really, so I have a lot of catching up to do)! Especially Co8 mod pack.

[Corwin]

Get the Co8 mods, they are really good!!

[Arma]

I actually did, but for some strange universe, even though I adore ToEE, I was not in the mood to play!

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Honestly, I really liked my copy. I got the Collectors Edition.

What actually made me really angry was that at first Europe shouldn't get no Collector's Edition at all. And THEN Europe got a totally different content as "bonus".

[Dhruin]

The wiping-your-harddrive thing was overplayed. As I recall (and it was a while ago, so a grain of salt for all these details), it only occurred when you installed to a different partition and had Norton Systemworks (or something like that) installed.

As mentioned, SSI has a couple of different teams and also attempted to get the latest D&D revision rules incorporated before they were finished (the rules, that is) and clearly without the team having the resources to tie everything together properly.

In the end, a number of things were poorly conceived. First, only a small range of Feats were included and these were automatically applied on leveling, which really destroyed the character development. Second, the combat was a poor implementation, lacking both the tactical depth of ToEE (tripping, charging ...) but also the pace with very slow animations over large areas with repetitive mobs. Biasing the die rolls just took a bad system and made it ridiculous.

Finally, the first levels were dreary, including a looooooong dull-as-dishwater dungeon with the excessive slow combat against menial, dull mobs.

I quit well before any sign of an engaging tale turned up.

[magerette]

I actually did, but for some strange universe, even though I adore ToEE, I was not in the mood to play!

Know what you mean Arma. As much as I enjoyed many parts of this game I've never made it back. It may be the memory of the god-awful lag in the Nodes near the endgame--some subconscious avoidance, or something. :)

[Arma]

Well, actually I love the mid to end game. It's just the awfully slow beginning that I usually can't cope with.

[curious]

yes i've tried two seperate times and as much as i love troika i've never gotten past the intro part. i can over look the d&d and isometric aspects but coupled with the lack of the story makes it less enticing than cleaning bathrooms.

[Danicek]

Seems like the opinions on this game really differe in may areas. Strange, I have always considered it one of the worst RPGs ever and so I've never even though about trying it. Now I see that some people really enjoyed it...

[mute]

Danicek: My motivation playing the game come halftime as i understood where the game really picked up. Its somewhat slow in the beginning, but as i wrote elsewhere i got such a wonderful old school feeling playing this game. I do love it and think the game is great, much for the same reason many people "despise" it. Its a different tastes I guess.

I played the demo after a dry spell of rpg. And found out that this game was not as bad by a long shot as the reviewers let it sounds like. (I never bought it at release and decided to let it pass me when it was released).

But i think the motivation to play the game must be you like exploration, you must like doing fights (that might feel slow) and you must like doing some time in the game before it picks up. But when it does its a blast.

The strangest thing i understand the critics and that people loath it. But i think this is on the top of my playlist as far as RPGs goes. So, if you like the demo, and you can live with the not full implementation of the rule, that wizards (or sorcery or whatever) not is a correct class. Then this might be enjoyable. (The fights are more fun in POR2 than in NWN2 which i gave up on ... slautgher/click fests isn't my way to like a game anyhow!)

Will be fun if you decide to try out the demo or even the full shebang! :) Let us know, we might be three on this forum that like the game.

Oh, if you want to read more check out the official forums and read some. Its not that many left there yet, but you get inspiration during the beginning...

[Alrik Fassbauer]

My theory about the lag in TOEE is that it comes from the extremely heavy optimization of modern video csrds for 3D - and therefore totally neglecting games that use simple bitmaps.

Everything is outlined for speed in calculating 3D objects, but the very same cards seem to be ridiculously slow when just copying bitmaps around in their video RAM.

This is an well-known issue with "Cultures", a game similar to the "Settlers", for example. Everyone in the quite active community over there knows that.
(I personally like "Cultures" more. :) )

[magerette]

I don't know what it was, Alrik, but the lag in ToEE was a real game killer. It was certainly the worst in the Fire node, where the flickering, constantly changing flame animations probably made a lot of demands. I hung with it and finished the game, but it left me with no desire to do the whole thing over again.

Maybe someday I'll try again. I'd like to play it with the more recent mods and the
Co8 patches.

AFA PoR2, I have downloaded the demo and been killed (entire party) twice so far. Looks promising!!:) (I hate easy games.)

[ToddMcF2002]

AFA PoR2, I have downloaded the demo and been killed (entire party) twice so far. Looks promising!!:) (I hate easy games.)

LOL Don't forget the healing shrines!

[Arma]

Funny, I've never had any problems with ToEE of the lag kind (since it would be a joke to say of not having any problems with the game :)). Except maybe the fight on the center of the forth level of the Temple or the sideway ruined tower, since it was my (last) party of about 7 against 30 ... But lag or no lag it was fun :)

[magerette]

Yes, Arma, those fights were great fun--I had a fighter/druid who really made the day there--even if the fights did take about thirty minutes each!:)

[JemyM]

I never had any lag in ToEE either. Only flaw with ToEE was the last 2 levels in which the developers obviously ran out of time. Up to that point it was a very nice game.

[magerette]

Question--JemyM and Arma--when did you guys play the game? I played it right after release, with only the one Co8 content patch. It could possibly have been my system at the time, I suppose, but I had no trouble with playing Morrowind on it, which I would think was just as demanding graphically.

And re: PoR2, now that I've gotten a bit more familiar with the *cough* user-friendly interface *cough* and found the healing shrine ToddMcF mentioned, things are going good. I would probably not pay top dollar for this game, but at twelve bucks, it doesn't sound bad. :)

[JDR13]

I purchased and played TOEE shortly after it was released with just one patch IIRC. I don't remember experiencing any major bugs or technical difficuties.

[ToddMcF2002]

And re: PoR2, now that I've gotten a bit more familiar with the *cough* user-friendly interface *cough* and found the healing shrine ToddMcF mentioned, things are going good. I would probably not pay top dollar for this game, but at twelve bucks, it doesn't sound bad. :)

Believe it or not I got it for $7, full retail box with the nice color map. Later I spent $20 bucks or so on the Prima guide and then bought the fiction book. I guess I really got hooked!

I loaded up ToEE last night with all the mods. Havent gone though the character creation yet - this time through I'll try a Rogue, Barbarian and Druid core I think.

[Arma]

I believe I last played it when patch 3 was released, since at first I could not loot bodies (the most notable bug of the then new DirectX), and with Co8 patch 3 I believe. If I am not mistaken, it was bout 2 years ago. Had a really great time (since I shortcutted to Level 3 of the temple :))

[JemyM]

Question--JemyM and Arma--when did you guys play the game? I played it right after release, with only the one Co8 content patch. It could possibly have been my system at the time, I suppose, but I had no trouble with playing Morrowind on it, which I would think was just as demanding graphically.

Right after release. Ofcourse, I usually spend alot of money on computer hardware and thus I always had a strong computer with lots of ram, the latest entusiast graphiccards, the highest cpu mhz and an up to date soundcard.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

TOEE runs on myAthlon 800 with more than 300 MB RAM, but an older GeForce 2 GTS, except the first main battle against someone called Hedrack or so.

I had uncountable CTS. Plus 2 or 3 locks.

Haven't played further on since then.

I think it is typical for Atari that they never produced any German-language patch for TOEE. I had to use the GULP mod instead (after installing the only available official, English-language patches).

[magerette]

Well, perhaps the problem was my rig at the time--IIRC, it was a pentium2 with a pretty crappy video card( nVidia TNT2 32 mb) amd only 128 mb of ram, so that might have been it. All this talk is making me want to fire it up again and find out if it plays any better, especially since the modding since then has been really intense.

Thanks again to all for their input. :)