this just in: Wizards of the Coast implodes

[Ammon777]

"An implosion occurred this morning as Wizards of the Coast refused to renew all its licenses, cancelling Dragonlance, Dragon magazines, Dungeon magazines, and all other outer D&D constructs. Rumor has it that Wizards has begun an Internet Initiative that prepares the D&D world for the inevitable and dreaded 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons game hooked into the web with evil tentacles. At this rate, d20 will certainly go the way of the *sic* ghost, and most likely the OGL will not be renewed with 4th Edition. Therefore from this day forth Ammon777 will only play MMORPGs, because those are the future. And Wizards is really, really dumb, according to Monte Cook, yesterday on a forum. It certainly appears that the dreadful twitter of impending apathy has begun to envelop the entire OGL industry, and law enforcement is very worried. Wizards is going the way of TSR now. But I'm not worried, because I dont give a shit anymore!

This is Ammon with channel 777 News. Have a good evening."

:D

[txa1265]

OK ... um ... huh?

[Corwin]

Yeah, what he said!! :)

[Shagnak]

Source? Or is Ammon just having an...episode?

[txa1265]

OK, so now I found some info:

Paizo Publishing to Cease Publication of Dragon and Dungeon (http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Press/?doc=20070419)

And there is a bunch of speculation (read: hysteria) about other license non-renewals here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=835074).

[narpet]

I get both Dragon and Dungeon magazines. Both are published by Paizo through a contract with Wizards. Paizo has sent all of its readership an email that informs us that both magazines are being discontinued because Wizards has decided not to renew the contract. The email further states that Wizards will be introducing new web based magazines (apparently not called Dragon or Dungeon) in the near future. There are plans for a deal for all current subscribers, but that deal has not be stated yet.

For me it's a sad day. Almost as sad as when TSR went the way of the dodo. I've been getting Dragon magazine since I was a kid (a very long time) and though its quality has waxed and waned it has always been a staple of my life. So it's sad to see this happen.

[Surlent]

Eh aren't they just moving the magazines to Internet instead of publishing physical copies? At least that's how I read the press release in Mike's link.

Edit: Grammar.

[xSamhainx]

perfect. Here I just subscribed to Dungeon, on my second issue!

I'm all for eternal 3.5, screw 4th edition!

[Ammon777]

No, they cancelled the magazines themselves in favor of some kind of web-based material from Wizards. Also, Wizards appears to be preparing for a 4th Edition announcement and is basically screwing over the entire OGL community. The so-called Wizards "Internet Initiative" involves putting MMORPG-influenced design elements into D&D. That alone writes it off as bad movements, right there, for me. If they want to make an MMO, by gods make an MMO and leave D&D out of it. But instead they are going to butcher D&D in an effort to compete with MMOs. Hey, I love MMORPGs. And I like D&D. But the two of them should not be married, imho.

edit -- Let me ask: How many of you would subscribe to D&D? Besides buying some books, would you actually pay monthly for some kind of online service run by Wizards? IMO this whole move is very greedy on Wizards part and is very bad for the D&D lifestyle. Very, very bad.

edit -- Read between the lines. Wizards has discontinued ALL CONTRACTS. They are pulling back into themselves the same way that TSR did, because Wizards has appearantly decided that OGL community and OGL market wasnt profitable enough for them. This is a slap in the face of the entire community and will kill off the market. Say goodbye to vendors like RPG Now.

[narpet]

edit -- Let me ask: How many of you would subscribe to D&D? Besides buying some books, would you actually pay monthly for some kind of online service run by Wizards? IMO this whole move is very greedy on Wizards part and is very bad for the D&D lifestyle. Very, very bad.

I am probably one of the biggest D&D geeks around, having played it since about 1979 (and still play it monthly). I have a huge collection of original books, boxed sets, modules, etc. And, being a huge geek I also have a huge collection of newer stuff (3.0 and 3.5 edition).

But I agree completely with Ammon777... I don't want PnP D&D to become some kind of online only thing (we all know about my hatred of everything related to MMOs). So if this ends up being true... the answer is no, I wouldn't pay a monthly fee to get my PnP D&D material. It's one thing to pay a yearly fee for a print magazine, but I'm not going to pay for something that I don't really even get to hold in my hands (virtual magazines and such).

[Jaz]

WotC killed too many of my favorite companies with their §$#% Magic, and I stopped caring about AD&D shortly after the 2nd edition was published, so... *shrugs*

[Lucky Day]

No, they cancelled the magazines themselves in favor of some kind of web-based material from Wizards. Also, Wizards appears to be preparing for a 4th Edition announcement and is basically screwing over the entire OGL community. The so-called Wizards "Internet Initiative" involves putting MMORPG-influenced design elements into D&D. That alone writes it off as bad movements, right there, for me. If they want to make an MMO, by gods make an MMO and leave D&D out of it. But instead they are going to butcher D&D in an effort to compete with MMOs. Hey, I love MMORPGs. And I like D&D. But the two of them should not be married, imho.

edit -- Let me ask: How many of you would subscribe to D&D? Besides buying some books, would you actually pay monthly for some kind of online service run by Wizards? IMO this whole move is very greedy on Wizards part and is very bad for the D&D lifestyle. Very, very bad.

edit -- Read between the lines. Wizards has discontinued ALL CONTRACTS. They are pulling back into themselves the same way that TSR did, because Wizards has appearantly decided that OGL community and OGL market wasnt profitable enough for them. This is a slap in the face of the entire community and will kill off the market. Say goodbye to vendors like RPG Now.

Yeah, it looks like anything not in house has been cancelled or is going to be ie. the Gamma World stuff will go soon. White Wolf had to come to some sort of agreement with their backstock. They seem to be cutting ties with everyone which is a complete reversal from their OGL. That publishing company was spun off from them even. It would be bizarre not see DL as D&D.

3.5ed really killed OGL. All these companies doing D20 were left holding the bag. Its been a big disaster for everyone but WotC.

Ammon, can you find more information about a push for more of a Computer/Online friendliness by WotC other than the magazines?

We know DDO was a disaster (except force parties ironically) as it ignored PnP rules in favour of Twitch and there are rumours about a KotOR MMORPG from Bioware's Austin facility. But will there really be a change in the system to accommodate this?



WotC killed too many of my favorite companies with their §$#% Magic, and I stopped caring about AD&D shortly after the 2nd edition was published, so... *shrugs*

Big ditto there. 2nd Edition was a waste of time and money. Like AD&D was an attempt to not pay Arneson royalties, 2nd Edition was meant to keep them out of Gygax' pocket too. 2nd Ed wasn't different enough (it was virtually identical) and, to me, 3e is not D&D at all.

[Ammon777]

Hmm... Looks like I assumed too much. I apologize. The whole community uproar was hard not to get caught up into. Here is the place to look for more info about it:

www.enworld.org

Specifically:

"Q: Our understanding at present is that the online content is set to replace the magazines. What factors were involved in the decision to replace one with the other, rather than to allow the two media - the online platform and the magazines - to co-exist?

A: Chris: Our online content plans will replace the printed magazines. That aside, we are still very much in the business of producing printed products.

Bill: I also want to take a moment to quell some related rumors. D&D is not going away. In no way do our plans call for the end of face-to-face tabletop gaming. We are not making an MMORPG. We will continue to produce printed, for-sale, published products."

Looks like I got worked up for nothin. My apologies for my misinformation. Also, I am staying with MMOs anyway. I dont have anyone in the vicinity to play D&D with, and online forum games almost always die eventually, they are very very slow, and I only live once, so its not worth it, since my time on earth is valuable: see www.myth-weavers.com for online forum D&D.

[roqua]

I would love to see a 4th edition. I would also love an online tool for pnp. I might actually play then. I don't play pnp games, but I buy the interesting systems, and I buy pdfs whenever I can. I actually can't stand when there isn't a pdf, like for the Burning WHeel, or when only suppliments are pdf. I hate ordering and waiting. When Harn split and Crosby made an online only shop I thought that was a good idea.

D&D got a lot better with 3.5, I'm sure it will only improve with a 4th ed. And a 4th edition might mean a boom of 4th ed crpgs.

[ThatGuy]

Having started playing D&D really only 3.0 and above, I don't have much of a clue as why the 1st and 2nd might be better. But if playing Baldur's Gate was any indication of how those versions played, I'm pretty glad I skipped em, lots of things were way more complicated (looking atleast), like THAC0 and saves vs: spells, wands, breath, etc., not to mention the dual classing options, bleh.

or maybe the horrible str. stats, like 18/40, 18/00, and onwards. Only thing I might miss from that is the weapon speed system, I enjoy using two handed weapons, but I have to admit, daggers should have an advantage over greatswords in the speed department.

Personally, I look forward to the 4th edition.

[Ammon777]

I wouldve looked forward to 4th Edition if it wasnt for the fact that I bought over $2500.00 worth of PDFs for 3.5e, and when 4e doesnt make 3.5e compatible (which is the most likely scenario -- you cant sell 4e without alterations), then all my sourcebooks would be invalidated, total waste of my limited funds, and WTF is the point if everything I own only lasts a few years and I dont have anyone to play with in the first place (besides the incredibly slow online play). No... I'm not doing that again. Even without this news, its still goodbye D&D for me, basically, because I cant find anyone to play with in my vicinity that knows how to be a good DM. Online play is way too ponderingly slow. When I play D&D I like marathons that last a whole day, not a couple hours once per week. argh.

Also not having a car pretty much destroys any chances...

[Lucky Day]

Having started playing D&D really only 3.0 and above, I don't have much of a clue as why the 1st and 2nd might be better. But if playing Baldur's Gate was any indication of how those versions played, I'm pretty glad I skipped em, lots of things were way more complicated (looking atleast), like THAC0 and saves vs: spells, wands, breath, etc., not to mention the dual classing options, bleh.

or maybe the horrible str. stats, like 18/40, 18/00, and onwards. Only thing I might miss from that is the weapon speed system, I enjoy using two handed weapons, but I have to admit, daggers should have an advantage over greatswords in the speed department.

Personally, I look forward to the 4th edition.

D&D was about adapting various mythologies to a system. The ideas were sometimes arbitrary based on a "should be". Like Vampires should be powerful. As it got more elaborate, and as a marketing tool to keep from paying out royalties, AD&D was named. But at the core it was a systematized adaptation of stories that went on around us, some of them for millenia.

3e/d20 is all about streamlining the system and rather than focus on stories we all grew up with and our in our collective unconscious it was all about the numbers.

As well, it was an experiment in recapturing market share with OGL which, like the Apple ][, came out of pent up frustration as an end user but in the end lacked the control that companies desire.

They kept the names to keep it familiar (such as Dexterity pretending its Agility. Its not) but have decided to keep it within a D&D Lore that has developed rather than adapting well known ideas into the system.

Its the sheer artificialness and number crunching I dislike about 3e. Its really not D&D at all to me. It has a completely different feel. Its like the difference between a slick plastic coated art illustration magazine vs. a solid hardcover written on thick paper. AD&D to me has the feel of being "real" whereas 3e feels like everything can be done with a calculator.

I can only hope that 4th Edition can go back to that but I don't have my hopes up.

[Jaz]

Having started playing D&D really only 3.0 and above, I don't have much of a clue as why the 1st and 2nd might be better. But if playing Baldur's Gate was any indication of how those versions played, I'm pretty glad I skipped em, lots of things were way more complicated (looking atleast), like THAC0 and saves vs: spells, wands, breath, etc., not to mention the dual classing options, bleh.In my opinion the first editions weren't necessarily better, but back then it was something new and exciting, and the monster manuals were great. By the time of the 2nd ed. I had already found other p&p RPGs which were more to my liking, so I stuck to them. For me, it wasn't so much a case of 'I don't like the new AD&D but a case of 'I found a game I like better than AD&D'.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Hello,

sorry folks, but as an non-D&D player I'm slightly confused.

Please explain to me what's all this fuss about and

is this serious ?

[Ionstormsucks]

D&D is horrible, I can't understand why people buy that stuff in the first place.

[Ammon777]

Hello,

sorry folks, but as an non-D&D player I'm slightly confused.

Please explain to me what's all this fuss about and

is this serious ?
Wizards, the publishers of D&D, cancelled two magazine runs that lasted nearly 30 years, opting to continue them as online-only formats. They also are not renewing licenses to D&D-supporting companies. Thats about it.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Uh. I'm a bit shocked.

30 years and they just cancel them NOW ?

That's bad news. Really bad news.

I think it began with working Magic the Gathering into an online thing. They offer no offline game anymore for it, although I consider the "explanation game" (all programmed in Flash !) as excellent (at least graphics-wise).

My guess is that

a) someone just got infected with the online hype
b) someone tried to jump onto the waggon of what seems to be labelled "future" (hopefully it's not the wrong one !)
c) someone just freaked out.

I don't know, but I think I should just buy a few of the(imported) mags here, just for reference.

By the way, I just saw a few days ago a mag called "Dragon" which seemed to be brand new and had a great feature about these robot-like creatures of PS:T in it ...