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Sparow
May 2nd, 2007, 00:54
Can somebody give me the names of all the mages in gothic 1?

Wulf
May 2nd, 2007, 10:43
O.k Sparow, here's the full list, head mage at the top.

Firemages
...............
Corristo
Torrez
Drago
Damarok
Rodriguez
Milten

Watermages
..................
Saturas
Riordian
Nefarius
Myxir
Merdarion
Cronos

....and not forgetting Xardas of course

Sparow
May 2nd, 2007, 10:56
Thanks Wulf!

Wulf
May 2nd, 2007, 11:04
Just on a side note, Xardas was never "the" thirteenth magician, that was Milten who filled in when Xardas left the old camp...still a magician. Furthermore, if our nameless hero becomes a mage then you would have *fourteen* magicians in Gothic at one time.

Maylander
May 2nd, 2007, 14:50
Piranha Bytes admitted they made a mistake regarding the number of mages. There's 13 mages in the colony, however Milten joined after the barrier was created, which they didn't think about when creating the intro that explains how 13 magicians created the barrier. The fact is - 12 mages made the barrier, not 13.

The problem with a game like Gothic that has such a hardcore fanbase, is that the fans analyze every rock and spot in the game, so any and all flaws will be discovered. There are a few such flaws in the Gothic games, especially between G1 and G2 (clearly G2 was not planned when they wrote the ending of G1), but all in all I'd say the continuity is very strong compared to most series, considering we've only been able to dig up a handful of mistakes.

titus
May 4th, 2007, 11:08
Wasn't Xardas the 13th magician? Who controlled the hole thing? I just saw the G1 movie saw I remember him saying that very clearly. Milten never had anything to do with the creation of the barrier. Xardas was a firemage at the moment of creation

Sparow
May 4th, 2007, 11:33
can somebody also give me a list of all the mages in gothic 2 and gothic 2 notr?

Sparow
May 4th, 2007, 11:34
Wasn't Xardas the 13th magician? Who controlled the hole thing? I just saw the G1 movie saw I remember him saying that very clearly. Milten never had anything to do with the creation of the barrier. Xardas was a firemage at the moment of creation

no because there were only 12 mages before milten joined the mages so there couldn't be more than 12 mages that made the barrier

Maylander
May 5th, 2007, 16:44
That's the misstake PB made, Titus. They call Xardas the 13th magician, despite there only being 12 at the time the barrier was created. Milten joined later.

Gothic 2: NotR
Fire magicians
...............
Pyrokar
Hyglas
Marduk
Parlan
Karras
Serpentas
Isgorath
Neoras
Gorax
Ulthar
Talamon
Daron
Milten

Water magicians
..................
Vatras
Saturas
Riordian
Nefarius
Myxir
Merdarion
Cronos

Black magicians
..................
Xardas
A nameless fellow only called Black Magician at the entrance to the undead dragon.

Sparow
May 5th, 2007, 19:33
Thank you very much

Calin
July 29th, 2007, 18:40
About the mages who created the Barrier, there had to be 6 from CoF and 6 from CoW to keep a balance. And they were all coordinated by Xardas the Necromancer, a member of the CoF at that time. So if Milten became a convict after the Barrier was created and was thrown inside the Barrier along with Diego, Lester and Gorn, as we know from the Gothic Comic, there was probably another Fire Mage which wasn't in the game. Maybe he just died and this is why the hero never meets him.:)

Dakkath
July 30th, 2007, 03:41
This one is confusing. The only mage shown creating the barrier is wearing a standard water mage robe. Right before the hero is sent into the colony a mage wearing a high robe of fire gives him the letter. We can assume the hero is getting thrown in much later.

Later, Saturas notes that 12 mages alone created the barrier. At least five of them would have been at the focus points. He also states that all the mages used to be together in the old camp until they "split into the circles of fire and water." There are several conclusions you could draw. Xardas was their leader but was merely a guide and in true management style didn't do any of the hard work. Xardas knew of the dark arts before the barrier was created (noted in G2). However, he didn't pursue it greatly until Gomez started getting dangerous. In G2 you find it fairly certain Xardas was originally a fire mage.

Milten isn't really relevant, he was just interested in magic when he was thrown in and joined the fire mages. Technically the Guru's are mages too, they were just manipulated by the Sleeper/Beliar to create their magic.

This leaves you with a missing mage fire mage. Maybe he was one of the scouts sent to contact Xardas that never came back.

VPeric
July 30th, 2007, 09:54
Wait, how do we have a missing fire mage now? There are 5 fire mages in the old camp (plus Milten, but he wasn't there when the barrier was made) and Xardas, who is the 6th firemage. Those six and the 6 water mages = 12 mages who made the barrier.

JDR13
July 30th, 2007, 10:37
Wait, how do we have a missing fire mage now? There are 5 fire mages in the old camp (plus Milten, but he wasn't there when the barrier was made) and Xardas, who is the 6th firemage. Those six and the 6 water mages = 12 mages who made the barrier.

VPeric is correct I believe. I think a lot of people forgot about the fact that Xardas didn't leave the Fire Mages until after the creation of the barrier.

gaboru93
July 30th, 2007, 10:54
yes! what VPertic said is correct! as JDR said, Xardas left the Fire Mages after the creation of the barrier! He states that he knew the way of getting out was black magic!

Dakkath
August 1st, 2007, 00:46
As Saturas states, 12 magicians created the barrier, but they were guided by a 13th magician, Xardas.

I agree with Maylander's previous comments though, it was just a 'late in the game' story error.

Dakkath
August 1st, 2007, 02:00
Here's the direct quote from Saturas:

"Well when we, the 12 magicians, created the barrier back then, our magic powers were directed and controlled by a 13th magician." "All this took place before we were divided into the circles of fire and water."

That means there were 13 total mages trapped in the barrier, so someone else used to be in Milten's place.

Pladio
August 1st, 2007, 03:25
I think this has already been discussed at the Dot for ages. Some thought Yberion was the 12th mage, while Xardas controlled everything. Others thought PB just made a mistake. Other suggested the mage died and so Milten took his place.

Dakkath
August 1st, 2007, 03:35
YB is a possibility, like I said, the guru's are mages too.

So maybe Y'berion was legit before he struck up with the cheeba and started sleepin' late.

titus
August 1st, 2007, 09:24
Hasn't anyone ever asked the answer at PB them self?

gaboru93
August 1st, 2007, 21:49
i think it was made like that to make us speculate and speculate! isn't it nice when a game makes your mind turn?

danutz_plusplus
August 1st, 2007, 21:52
I think I remember someone posting on WoG that PB admited they made a mistake there.

Maylander
August 2nd, 2007, 23:32
Yes, it is official, PB made a misstake - they counted 13 WITH Milten, then made a story about Milten joining the fire mages after the barrier was made. It's a blooper, simple as that.

JDR13
August 2nd, 2007, 23:56
So in reality Milten was actually a mage before the barrier? At least that seems to be the only way for it to make sense.

Maylander
August 3rd, 2007, 00:25
PB made a blooper - they simply counted 6 fire mages, 6 water mages and 1 black mage = 13 mages. They forgot all about Milten not being a mage when it was created. In reality, 12 mages made the barrier - 5 fire mages, 6 water mages and 1 black mage, although back then they were all fire mages (they split later on).

JDR13
August 3rd, 2007, 00:51
Xardas didn't become a Black Mage until after the creation of the barrier though.

Maylander
August 3rd, 2007, 03:26
They were all fire mages back then, that's what I said, last sentence in my post. Even Saturas and those guys were fire mages originally.

JDR13
August 3rd, 2007, 05:08
Did they actually say "13 mages" created the barrier? I honestly don't remember as it's been about 4-5 years since the last time I played Gothic 1.

*Edit* Hmm, most references to Gothic claim 12 mages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_%28computer_game%29

Dakkath
August 3rd, 2007, 18:12
@JDR13

Read back to the first page of this thread, I posted the exact quote from Saturas.

Rock on.

JDR13
August 3rd, 2007, 21:47
"Well when we, the 12 magicians, created the barrier back then, our magic powers were directed and controlled by a 13th magician." "All this took place before we were divided into the circles of fire and water."

Ah, so this is where PB screwed up. :lol:

gaboru93
August 3rd, 2007, 21:56
Back then Xardas was the leader of the Fire Magicians... the letter you get at first is addressed to him.... (him being the leader of magicians)

Wulf
August 5th, 2007, 12:38
Having read many gothic forums weird posts over the years, i can certainly understand why Gothic players are unable to differentiate between continuous and progressive aspects of the spoken tenses which relate to time within a constructed sentence, past and present tenses can me mixed together the expression depending on the grammarian's intention. German is the only other language spoken with English tense progression.
When Piranha Bytes developers applied the dialogue into the gothic game, they were grammatically perfect with Saturas's spoken english dialogue and in fact there are no mistakes, why they should have ever agreed it was a mistake is beyond reason, maybe just to keep the fans happy.

After Xardas broke away from the twelve magicians to go his own way to follow the dark arts of death (necromancy) Milten was admitted into the firemages guild to make up the empty place on the pentagram tips in the fire-mages house, he was the thirteenth magician to be introduced in conjunction with the game story-line, this means that any progressing future dialogues referring to Xardas can have the past participle applied as Saturas's sentence construction rightfully shows.

In the early gothic chapters before our nameless hero meets with Xardas, in line with the evolving story-line, pc-hero is unaware of any thirteenth magician - but because Saturas says -->"be patient! (present tense) well when we" (the past tense) "the twelve magicians, created the barrier back then, our powers were directed and controlled by" - - (now at this very point the English/Germanic present tense progression kicks in) - - "a thirteenth magician" (the past participle) still relative and perfectly progressing referring to *after* Miltens inclusion.

Glad to see JDR13 sticking to his guns on this subject, most impressive, hope he wasn't too distracted. ;)

JDR13
August 5th, 2007, 13:18
What can I say?

Not all of us have played Gothic 67+ times.:p

Maylander
August 5th, 2007, 17:07
Saturas clearly states that it was 13 magicians making the barrier "we (12) + a 13th", referring to Milten as if he was one of the magicians making it. However, he was not.

Stop putting too much into PBs brilliance, they are human and make misstakes like everyone else, they even admit it.

And whether or not someone has played through it 60 or 30 times makes little difference - we have all seen every single rock and heard every piece of dialogue so many times there simply is no possibility that there is more to this game than what we've discovered so far.

Dakkath
August 5th, 2007, 17:54
And whether or not someone has played through it 60 or 30 times makes little difference - we have all seen every single rock and heard every piece of dialogue so many times there simply is no possibility that there is more to this game than what we've discovered so far.

Well said.