Dark Messiah

[nameless hero]

Heya,
Just downloaded and played the (1.4Gig) demo of Dark Messiah. Seems pretty good. The combat system is very interesting, although I think that in Oblivion it was easier in calculating the distance from an enemy. But really, its not a hack-n-slash as such. You cant just run into a room with 5 orcs and click your way to victory. Many aspecs determine who wins, including the environment.

Graphics are good too, but Im suprised my PC ran rather slow with the game on Med-High settings. Athlon3200+.

Anyway, Im curious if anyone else has played the demo yet, and what you think of it.:)

[txa1265]

I was in on the closed beta so I'd been playing all summer ... I did play the demo but just once and never rechecked the Steam demo (heard it stuttered less). I want to be fresh for the actual game when it arrives.

[titus]

I am downloading it right now, will be back when I tried it

[Moriendor]

But really, its not a hack-n-slash as such. You cant just run into a room with 5 orcs and click your way to victory.

Actually, you most likely will be able to. That's what I hate about these heavily scripted games like DMoMM. If you rush ahead carelessly then -yes- you will very likely be getting your ass handed to you because you will inevitably run into the carefully prepped "death traps" that the developers have placed along your way.

That's why you're more or less "forced" to -at least if you don't want to die and reload too often- move ahead carefully and as soon as you realize that you have activated a trigger point for a script, you just need to run back a few meters. Then you can usually conveniently watch all hell break loose where the developers wanted or anticipated you to be and when the "death trap" has been "disarmed" (or discharged), you can just move into the room or the spot or the clearing or whatever place it may be to kill all enemies rather easily. Well, or pass that area safely without the ground breaking away from underneath you or stuff dropping on your head, depending on whatever the script is set to do.

I'm not a huge fan of that type of gameplay (which is unfortunately used in many FPS games). It's making gameplay way too technical. You just move through the game from script trigger point to script trigger point as the game slowly "educates" you about how to pass certain points.

I'm afraid that DMoMM could become a game just like that, especially because Arkane seems to have set up a lot of locations so you almost have to use the prepped up environment to your advantage.
If that is indeed so then -aside from the "trigger point hopping"- you will probably end up rushing into rooms to check out the setup. Memorize where all the triggers and traps are while you're getting slapped around. Get killed. Reload. Rush into room again, knowing where the rope is that you need to cut or the barrels you need to kick loose or whatever. Rinse. Repeat. Until game over.

That could turn out to be extremely boring after a very short time so in case that is what the gameplay is like, I wouldn't even mind to be honest if the game would really only be 5-10 hours long.

[roguefrog]

The devs have been promoting this one as an action game. A stellar one a that. Sort of like Thief, but instead of sneaking, combat! Glorious physics based combat! The reason I mention Thief is I heard Randy Smith(designer Thief 1 and 2) did some consultanting for this one. It looks like something Looking Glass might have done, with combat Oblivion wish it had.

[CelesteGB]

I agree with Moriendor. He stated exactly what I was trying to tell my husband about this game after I played the demo. I mean, there are only so many novel ways to kill something. I'm taking a wait-and-see approach although I have a feeling I'll be buying it because I'll buy any rpg in any form.

[txa1265]

I'll tell you all about it Celeste, I'm starting it at lunch today since I preordered on Steam ;)

As for there only being so many ways to kill things, I'm OK with that ;)

[CelesteGB]

Bah! I should have know *g* Yes, please tell me!

[Tauschitz]

I'm on the fence for this one for now txa1265, and I'll be quite curious to see your review of it, if you do one!

Tauschitz

[txa1265]

Of course, my first and oldest love is FPS, closely followed by RPG ... so that will obviously influence the way I see things ...

[txa1265]

Interesting launch :x

The game downloaded last night (pre-load). This morning there was a 'preload update', and at 10AM the 'pre-unlock dpwnload'.

I play the tutorial (same as before), and get to the first level - but the speech files for anyone but the hero are missing, replaced by loud hissing. And there are bugs and CTD's.

The answer appears to be to go and 'verify cache', which will then check what is on your system against the Steam records and update or replace any missing / corrupt files. That took a while, and downloading is *huge* - already ~15 minutes at >350KB/s and I'm ~60% done ...

Hopefully it will be playable for 10 minutes before I'm done with lunch ...

[lostnumber]

@Moriendor and CelesteGB: I've played the demo quite a bit and I must say that while the novelty of various options for death dealing may wear off after a while simply clicking your opponents into submission is not really a viable means of achieving victory. They will parry light blows, counter attack when opportune, use tactics when possible, and attack with decisive and effective action. I'm not trying to say that every fight will be a fight for survival, or that you will have to be proficient in 12 forms of martial arts prior to engaging an orc. Really, I just want you to know that the combat and scripted sequencing in the game will not disappoint, well inasmuch as the demo shows me. As far as I am concerned if the demo provides an accurate depiction of how the full version will play I am sold. I don't work for Arkane and I don't own any of their stock, I'm just writing this because I think that missing out on this would be a tragic loss of good nerdy fun. Seriously, I love stabbing orcs just as much as the next guy here; but I've never enjoyed doing so this much. Aside form BOD that is... Just give the demo a shot, then buy the game!!!

[crpgnut]

I want to play Dark Messiah, right after I finish Might and Magic X :D

[txa1265]

I would wait to buy the game until some bugs are sorted ...

But once I got past the initial bugs and crashes (which brought the Ubi forums to their knees for a while!), it was some pretty fun stuff - I'm a bit annoyed that I only got a few minutes to actuall y*play* since I spent so much time updating, but there it is ...

[Tauschitz]

txa1265,

Are you going to give it a go tonight and update your impressions? I guess, in any case, that it will be several days until the game shows up in stores, so I can wait a bit.

[txa1265]

Yes - I will give an update after playing a couple of hours. Tonight or in the morning - depending on whether or not I stop playing before exhaustion sets in ;)

[Dhruin]

Steam issues slowed me up as well, so hopefully I'll have impressions in a another day or so.

[r3dshift]

Mike, are you insinuating that you had to patch the game right after DLing it from steam so as to stop having problems with it? I'm asking this because I'm also DLing the game ATM from an "oh-not-so-official" source and I've been hearing people complaining about how the game crashes and locks up quite often. If it's pretty much unplayable now, I'll simply suspend the download, I guess.

[txa1265]

What I have heard is that prople who bought the DVD edition had fewer issues - the pre-load was terrible,basically, leaving orphan files and missing critical ones. You needed to re-sync the files to the Steam Master to get things straight. After that I was able to play ... and I played a bit tonight, and will do more later as well.

So basically, DVD = OK, Steam = extra hours of install hassles.

[Tauschitz]

Mike,

Is the DVD for Dark Messiah available in stores yet? I thought it had just shipped.

[txa1265]

Mike,

Is the DVD for Dark Messiah available in stores yet? I thought it had just shipped.

I saw it at my local Best Buy while I was picking up Medal of Honor Heroes for the PSP tonight.

[Tauschitz]

Wow! OK, I guess I know what I am doing on my lunch break tomorrow!

[txa1265]

Make sure you check availability - for MoH Heroes only half the stores in my area had stock.

[txa1265]

Just a general comment, since my original post referred to a comment that was deleted. I don't think that open discussion of pirating games is appropriate - our genre is small enough as it is.

[Corwin]

In a general forum, a discussion of Piracy would be tolerated within reason, but NOT in a thread devoted to a specific game. For reasons explained elsewhere by both myself and Gorath, we MUST take a strong stand against piracy!! Remember, many developers visit out forums.

[magerette]

Those who have played the demo: Is there anything remotely like the 4 person party of M&M which this is supposedly a semi-sequel to--or is it just FPS style one character?
Actually, the M&M series really basically was a first-person perspective and camera so I'm okay with that--just would like more than one character to customize.

[txa1265]

Those who have played the demo: Is there anything remotely like the 4 person party of M&M which this is supposedly a semi-sequel to--or is it just FPS style one character?
Let me see if I can answer that with a screen:
http://txa1265.spymac.com/pictures/DMoMM_006a.jpg

If that isn't clear enough, think 'Half-Life 2 meets Arx Fatalis'

[magerette]

Yup-pretty much sez it all. Clean interface, too.
Thanx.

[ToddMcF2002]

I can't stand the graphics in this game. The grainy, bloomy looks really bothers me - makes things seem almost 2D. I'm playing Arx Fatalis now and I honestly think it looks better despite the low polys.

Wish I liked it.

[txa1265]

I have no problem with the look ... I *do* have a problem that I lost half of the lunch-hour gameplay I did because it crashed entering a new Chapter ... between deleting the old save and making the new one.

[lostnumber]

The game is pretty damn good; I got to hand it to Arkane for producing another winner. Combat really does take some getting used to in order to get it right. Even in light of the learning curve, I really do feel like this is the most interactive and responsive FPS combat I have every experienced. Arkane did a good incorporating the full range of defensive and offensive moves into game play. In some games certain moves are more frills than anything else. For instance, in TESIV one really could just run up to their opponent and beat the snot out of them without much thought or skill, blocking was more of an option then a necessity. In this game the enemy will parry light blows, counter, use power attacks skillfully, and give good reason to become familiar with the parry function. It may be a little frustrating and awkward in the beginning but with a little practice and time the combat really becomes addicting. Scripted sequences play more of a storytelling function than anything else, well as far as the first few levels go that is. Combat takes place extemporaneously. An enemy hears, sees, or smells you and attacks. They use the environment to their advantage as the opportunity presents itself. One doesn't simply step into a scripted trap, instead if the player just happens to be in the area of influence of a trap their assailant may very well take advantage of that opportunity. Sometimes it is unexpected, and quite surprising. Every weapon type has a very distinct feel, as such; each one takes time and practice to use effectively. With bugs and performance issues set aside, my biggest gripe with the game is in the voice acting. Some of the actors come off with the "Wow, look at me I'm acting." feeling that can be overbearing and sometimes comical. The music in the game is appropriate and moves with the flow and setting of the game, sound is up to par. Graphics wise the game is very engrossing; architecture and detail have a very gothic or medieval feel, and really takes advantage of the source engine and its capabilities. The environment is well suited for a traditional rpg; however, the placement of spiked grates is a little artificial. I get the feeling Arkane may have a few of them decorating their office due to the frequency they are implemented in the game. Weapons placement is appropriate, and without giving away too much, you may even chance upon a hammer and anvil. The class system is well balanced, however the idea that one could play the game without using a melee weapon is a little out of touch with reality. Over all it’s a great game, more action than rpg, but more fun than a truck load of puppies. If you want something better go get a sword and a suit of armor and hit the streets. I would encourage all of my nerd bretheren to buy this game.

[Tauschitz]

Thanks Lostnumber for the review! Rather encouraging. How bad are the varios bugs you experienced?

Mike, any new information on the game from your end?

[txa1265]

Oh ... I've posted tidbits in various places today, but nothing concise ...

My thoughts on the game are pretty much 'Half-Life 2 meets Arx Fatalis meets Blade of Darkness'. And since I love all three then you can guess that I'm completely enamored with the game.

And I'd have to be or I'd have tossed it and said 'to heck with this crappy bugfest'! I'm only on Chapter 5, but should be much further - except for the bugs. I had numerous texture crashes last night which eventually caused me to load an earlier save and repeat an entire area. Then I completed a large battle sequence which pretty much ended the chapter ... but forgot to quicksave - the game crashed before loading the next chapter but I lost the auto-save for some reason.

I agree that the combat is superb - it is a greatly visceral experience. The moves and attacks and defences all *work* ... they just work. It is great fun dropping a Fire Trap when you know someone is rounding a corner ... but when they know you're there they'll attempt to avoid such traps. Things are scripted in areas, but this isn't like one of those WWII FPS games - the AI is very advanced.

So I already consider my $50 well spent :)

[Melvil]

So far so good imo, exactly what I expected. Good break from Gothic 3 pacing, but not a game that will make you forget you started the epic G3 a week beforehand.

[r3dshift]

Darn, am I the only one who feels the game is bloody difficult on hard setting? I get beaten up like around every other corner. I may have to give the normal setting a toss, although I really don't want to :\

[txa1265]

I'm playing 'normal', saving skill points and trying to go as much 'pure mage' as I can ... with as feeble combat skills as i have early on, I wouldn't do Hard. I'd need to be a balanced BattleMage for that!

[Tauschitz]

Enjoyed the into dungeon, but every 5 min or so the whole damned thing does the old crash to desktop. It seems that many people on the DMM&M boards are having the exact errors that I am having, so it looks like its time to wait for the patch ;-((

Its a shame, because the little combat that I did get was quite enjoyable. Wonder what they are smoking over at Gamespot to give it such a poor rating.

[r3dshift]

Actually, I'm using the demo.exe to run the game. This may or may not be such a good idea, but I haven't experienced any glitches or bugs and have had no crashes so far.

[txa1265]

Enjoyed the into dungeon, but every 5 min or so the whole damned thing does the old crash to desktop. It seems that many people on the DMM&M boards are having the exact errors that I am having, so it looks like its time to wait for the patch ;-((

I took one piece of advice and turned HDR completely off, and after wasting an hour screwing around with crashing and reloading I got an hour of actual gameplay ...

[r3dshift]

Furthermore, someone suggested setting textures to medium instead of high; it's said to stop crashing for them. Even though I've had no such problems, I've also done this and now I get no stuttering at all, and the game looks just as fine as before.

Also, I've restarted the game on normal difficulty, but it's like a walk in the park now. :) I think this setting should have been dubbed "easy" and an in-between difficulty setting between the current normal and hard settings should have been worked out. Anyway, I'm still at the beginning of the game, but it is miles easier than on hard.

[txa1265]

I hadn't gone to the boards there since yesterday ... there are all sorts of problems being reported ... all of a sudden my stuff doesn't seem so bad ;)

Of course, then you have the people running around claiming 30 second loads, no crashes or bugs on a P2 300MHz system and a 16MB Voodoo video card ;)

[lostnumber]

I have to admit that the bugs do get a little frustrating, but at its core there is a solid game. I have a 3200+, 2GB RAM, and a 6800GT and I get randomly poor performance for no damn good reason. But when the game works well man does it work. Nothing beats breaking some jerk's neck with a staff, even if said jerk and all of his buddies all say "Hey Paaaalll!!!" when they see you. Obviously the game could stand to have some bug/optimization fixes thrown at it, and Xana really should keep her mouth shut more often, but other than that the game is solid. As far as the most annoying bugs go it has to be the performance issues coupled with the CTDs. On the first play though a certain level the game would run smoothly in one area and not in another, on the second round all of that would shift so previously smooth areas are now slide shows. As far as CTDs go, well would something of that nature need any explanation? I don't think so, but just in case they suck like no other. Just play the demo and think of what that would be like if there were more of it with less of the bugs. They just need to get the bugs out first.

[Tauschitz]

I took one piece of advice and turned HDR completely off, and after wasting an hour screwing around with crashing and reloading I got an hour of actual gameplay ...

I have already turned all the setting down to medium (and a number of other tweaks) and was still getting CTD. I will give this turning off of the HDR a try and see if that does not stabilize the damned thing.

I just hope I can get it running before NWN2 shows up, cause I know I will be dropping of the edge of the earth for a while after it does!

[r3dshift]

As I wrote earlier, give the demo's .exe a try. I've been playing since last night and haven't had a single crash or bug. I can provide a link, if you like.

[Tauschitz]

As I wrote earlier, give the demo's .exe a try. I've been playing since last night and haven't had a single crash or bug. I can provide a link, if you like.

Thanks for the offer r3dshift - would you be so kind. I'll give anything a try at this point. Also, are you saying a) download the demo exe, then b) overwrite the exe file that is currently used, so that the current exe file no longer exists (unless I back it up of course)? What renaming, if any should I do?

Thanks!

[elkston]

I have been playing since yesterday, am on the 4th chapter and have had no techincal issues at all. The game loads in a reasonable amount of time, and performance is excellent.

I have a Pentium-M 2.13GHz, Geforce 6800 "Go" Ultra, and 2 GB of RAM.

The game is fun so far but my biggest complaint is the over-the-top sexy guide
who is in your head. She is annoying -- waay too much juvenile inneudo and often
giving hints on things I would rather figure out myself. I don't need some lusty chauntuese ringing around in my head. I just want to play the game my way.

[lostnumber]

I couldn't agree with you any more. If I wanted to be around annoying lusty women who are in bad need of a cold shower and a good helping of shut the hell up I'd hit up a strip club with a weeks worth of 20s. Xana can grow to be very bothersome. But that's not the worst of it; could you imagine taking a dump or a shower with that chick in your head?!? Talk about an invasion of privacy...

[Illuvatar]

and a 6800GT and I get randomly poor performance for no damn good reason.

The poor performance on 6800 cards is a known problem, acknowledged by Arkane. The only solution at this time is installing old Forceware (77.x) drivers. This is posted somewhere on the official Ubisoft forum.

[r3dshift]

@Tauschitz: My apologies for the belated reply, but I've been busy. However, here's the link to the demo .exe (http://uploaded.to/?id=31312e), as promised. It's NOT my upload, but it's 100% working for me and several others. Unfortunately, the site is rather slow, so please, be patient. It's guaranteed to be free of viruses/spyware and other pests, I'm using it too, and no problems at all, so don't worry.

And yes, you need to copy the demo's .exe into the game's directory where the original mm.exe is located. You should make a backup of the original, just in case.

Oh, and the demo .exe also works as a NoDVD solution, so you don't have to worry about getting your discs scratched all over any more ;)

Have fun and good gaming!

[Tauschitz]

@Tauschitz: My apologies for the belated reply, but I've been busy. However, here's the link to the demo .exe (http://uploaded.to/?id=31312e), as promised. It's NOT my upload, but it's 100% working for me and several others. Unfortunately, the site is rather slow, so please, be patient. It's guaranteed to be free of viruses/spyware and other pests, I'm using it too, and no problems at all, so don't worry.

And yes, you need to copy the demo's .exe into the game's directory where the original mm.exe is located. You should make a backup of the original, just in case.

Oh, and the demo .exe also works as a NoDVD solution, so you don't have to worry about getting your discs scratched all over any more ;)

Have fun and good gaming!

Thanks a lot r3dshift; I'm downloading and giving it a try. Will let you know if it solves the problem.

I'm dying to spend some quality time with this game, and tonight's my only free night until next weekend!

[Tauschitz]

I took one piece of advice and turned HDR completely off, and after wasting an hour screwing around with crashing and reloading I got an hour of actual gameplay ...

HDR seems to be the problem. I moved setting down to medium and turned off HDR and all is well - game is rock stable. It is a sham, given that the game is getting poor reviews in part due to the technical problems. It is great fun!

[Dhruin]

Colour me disappointed so far, although I'm not very far in at all. I did enjoy the demo, so I think it will get better.

This is close to the worst stability I have ever encountered (yes, well beyond other classic problem games) with regular crashes, hangs and poor performance in some areas while getting great performance in others. I'm sure the known 68xx series bug is part of the problem but given that this is surely one of the most popular cards on the market (6800GT to be precise, and I'm not installing old drivers), it's hard to forgive.

In addition, despite the Steam release being delayed outside of NA for two days I still had problems with missing files (thanks for the tip, txa1265) - not Arkane's fault but I assumed Valve/Ubisoft/whoever would have fixed it given the extra time.

I quite like DM's melee but these early stages have the action broken up by some poorly paced intervening sections, complete with pedestrian story telling, ordinary voiceover and annoying companion (what's her name?).

As I said, I liked the demo so I'm hoping it gets better.

[r3dshift]

I can't stress enough that anyone who experiences issues with the game should give the demo .exe a shot. See post #50 for details.

Believe me, it works, fellas.

[Tauschitz]

I can't stress enough that anyone who experiences issues with the game should give the demo .exe a shot. See post #50 for details.

Believe me, it works, fellas.

I did this as well, as, last night after I started having problems again *despite* turning off HDR. As of now, the demo .exe seems to have drought stability to the game. Thanks r3dshift.

[r3dshift]

No probs, I'm glad it's worked for you as well. And since your game is stable, now you can try turning HDR and all other advanced settings back on as long as the game's reasonably playable.

[txa1265]

I can't stress enough that anyone who experiences issues with the game should give the demo .exe a shot. See post #50 for details.

Believe me, it works, fellas.

I believe you, but unfortunately I'm going to end up as one of those reviewers who loves the game but tears it up because it is a technical mess ...

[Tauschitz]

And who can blame you! It still is unstable, despite all the little tweaks I have given it. I get 4-5 hour patches of stable play, and then its one hour of fu(%ing with it to get it to run again. Aggravating to say the least and its a shame. I'm in chapter six right now, and when it runs its really quite good. Sigh ...

[Maylander]

In general I've never liked games where "how many ways can you kill something" is central. The fact that you have levels, xp and skills does not make it an RPG; it's still an action game(yes, I'm one of the people who consider Diablo 1-2 an action game and not an RPG).

The fighting system is interesting though, and even if I usually never get hooked on action games, this fighting system is still something other RPGs can take inspiration from, as it actually works without being Oblivion style buttonsmashing.

[JDR13]

No matter what I do the game keeps freezing up on me at random. This is getting very frustrating. The game will be running fine and all of the sudden the sound will begin to stutter and loop, and then the game will just freeze and I have to bring up Windows Task Manager in order to get out of it. The game also stops during load screens sometimes as well. I'm about to uninstall this piece of crap unless they release a patch soon.

[lostnumber]

It's a damn shame that some of you fine folks are having such trouble, I really wish that everyone here could enjoy the game to its fullest. It really blows that Arkane is taking such a hit when it comes to technical flaws, even though they are of their own design. Arx was awesome and DM is amazing, but only when they run well. When I started the game I had horrible performance, after perusing a few forums and reading here I decided to set my texture detail level to medium. It worked like a charm and now the game runs smoothly with zero CTDs. I don't care what gamespot or any other gaming site says about this game. Xana may ruin the story, somewhat, but nothing ruins the combat. Each weapon is implemented perfectly, every skill upgrade lends the player a tangible improvement, and combat is very intense and engrossing. Forget click fests, abusing your mouse will get you nowhere here. Skill and character improvement are the only means of surviving through the game. I really hope that other developers will take note of this games combat and stealth systems. Combat in oblivion would be so much more fun if fighting were like this. Either way I hope that everyone gets their technical issues resolved soon, here's looking to Arkane's next gem.

[NFLed]

It's a very unfortunate byproduct of the technical difficulty good graphics PC games have. It's inevitable that people will have technical problems and usually they are a very small minority but they are usually the most vocal and so someone like me looking into maybe getting the game sees almost nothing except loud complaints about the game. I'm not referring to this forum but to the game company forums. It is probably a deterrent to game companies making these games at all and that's a real shame.

I am enjoying Dark Messiah a lot even though it's not really an rpg (by my own subjective definition). I miss not having stats and most of the other rpg trappings but it's fun as a first-person action melee game and it's quite immersive.

[Tauschitz]

It's a damn shame that some of you fine folks are having such trouble, I really wish that everyone here could enjoy the game to its fullest. It really blows that Arkane is taking such a hit when it comes to technical flaws, even though they are of their own design. Arx was awesome and DM is amazing, but only when they run well. When I started the game I had horrible performance, after perusing a few forums and reading here I decided to set my texture detail level to medium. It worked like a charm and now the game runs smoothly with zero CTDs. I don't care what gamespot or any other gaming site says about this game. Xana may ruin the story, somewhat, but nothing ruins the combat. Each weapon is implemented perfectly, every skill upgrade lends the player a tangible improvement, and combat is very intense and engrossing. Forget click fests, abusing your mouse will get you nowhere here. Skill and character improvement are the only means of surviving through the game. I really hope that other developers will take note of this games combat and stealth systems. Combat in oblivion would be so much more fun if fighting were like this. Either way I hope that everyone gets their technical issues resolved soon, here's looking to Arkane's next gem.

I do agree with you - the combat is engrossing, especailly once you get past the initial first few acts. I am playing a mage in the game, and having quite a blast (literally); at least when the game is functioning. I have found solid uses for most of the spells as well, though one has to be able to melee ....

[lostnumber]

Finally someone else is enjoying the game!! I was really beginning to feel like that one in every crowd. Your right, there is a use for every spell in the game even later on. Fire arrow doesn't do any damage but it can easily be steered around an enemy to hit something behind them or it can be used to quickly fill up your adrenaline meter. Combat it difficult to start with. My best advice to anyone who is struggling is to parry more than you swing when getting started. If you're surrounded get out a staff and start swinging. Once the bad guys are stunned kick a few away and knock one down. Kill the one closest to you and whip out a sword. Impale the next one if you can or ready a power strike. Knock that guy down again and then go for the other. Just remember, parrying is most often the key to success. When I first started I was all offense, I got my ass kicked left and right. Parry, run, use potions and traps, knock enemies down, or use stealth or magic. The combat in this game can really take some thought, that’s why it’s so much damn fun! I'm not saying that you need to prepare a thesis on the mechanics of combat and martial arts in order to be successful and enjoy the game. Just use your brain, take your time, and have fun. I can't stress this enough, parry your enemy’s blows, kick them, and use a power strike to knock them down. I rarely use flurry of blows when fighting humanoid enemies; maybe just to shave off a few hit points but nothing more. Save flurry of blows for the face huggers, and spiders. Combat is only repetitive if you make it that way. Hell oblivion's spells were repetitive, every offensive fire, ice, and lightning spell looked the same. Combat was a snooze fest, and stealth was a joke. I love Oblivion just as much as the next guy, but honestly, combat in that game was shallow and boring by comparison. Every game with a first person perspective has the same general combat mechanic throughout the entire game. Perhaps the PC can gain perks, stances, styles, weapons, moves, abilities, etc. but the core is always there; see bad guy, use means of destruction at disposal, make bad guy a dead/unconscious bad guy. It's just that some games offer a larger and more varied menu of said means of destruction than others. I know that the story sucks, I've already lost track of how many times I told Xana to stuff a friggin sock in it. Yes the technical issues are present and very annoying, but for the love of god this is a good game. What happens when the technical issues are ironed out? We'll have an outstanding first person sworder, with a transparent run of the mill story. To say that this game is garbage is far too harsh, when taken out of the context of the M&M universe we get a solid game the sets a new standard in FP melee combat. All I would like to see would be a more diverse selection of spells, a better, well planned story, less bugs at release, guards that don't always scream out "Hey Pal” and voice acting that doesn't compete in the same bracket as the porn actor’s guild.

[txa1265]

I had fun, but I would definitely choose Blade of Darkness (for one) over this.

When the level design is to choose (a) 'put a bunch of spiky stuff lying around for kick exploits' (b) 'put a bunch of cliffs around for kick exploits' and (c) 'put a bunch of stuff on platforms held by cables or rotted boards that break with one hit' ... it is just bad level design.

The problem is confusing 'fun' and 'quality' - battling your way through the game is a frickin' blast. It is just that most of the game is a technical mess, with lousy level design wrapped around a crappy story with uninteresting characters and females that look like they were designed by hormonal 13-year olds.

[lostnumber]

Blade is tough to beat in my book, but if I had to I would say that it retains the crown. Nevertheless, it's tough to compare to the first person perspective feel with the 3rd person perspective feel.

Level design is a bit goofy; I could deal with the rickety wooden structures, but the spiked grates are a little odd. I don't really kick bad guys off of or into stuff too often as I find myself enjoying the stabbing aspect of the game more than anything else. I do have to wonder though, who the hell keeps spiked grates in their attic, basement, garden, living room, cloister, and barn? Aside from hanging one's keys and growing ivy or other climbing plants I don't really see a need to have spiked grates all over hell. The physics traps do seem out of place more often than not. You've got to love the heavy box attached to a chain perched precariously on a wooden board held up with a beaten up wooden strut. If you fart hard enough next to one of those things they break, it’s overdone. But when I approach the game I take on an action movie minded suspension of disbelief. I think I even let out a few Arnold quotes after killing someone. You know, "stick around" after decorating a spiked grate with a black guard. There are some high points though; of instance the giant worm smashing the wooden platform as you are about to cross is great. The disappearing cantilevered floor is nice too. I do agree though that level design could be honed a bit more to achieve a greater continuous, integrated feel to the levels. The spike and physics traps are a bit obtrusive at points.

I'm not sure how to approach the succubus character. While I do wish there was a cold garden hose weapon in the game for use against her I do know that such demons are supposed to be heavily sexually charged. I just wish there was a way to do so without interrupting the game’s flow. But I really don't care too much about that.

Really, the biggest reason I defend the game so fervently is simple. I think that it is a great start; I think that Arkane can easily build upon the lessons learned from this game, combine them with the best features employed, and create a game worthy of everyone's praise. If we, as well as others, keep beating this game up we are limiting our chances for finding future gaming goodness. Everyone makes mistakes; many make mistakes far worse than this! Enjoy the game for what it offers, lend out constructive criticism, and hope for the best the next time around. During the next go though, let’s just leave the M&M stuff alone and get back to the Arx story line!!

[Tauschitz]

Actually as a melee weapon, I have been using nothing but the staff - and I have to say, using flurry of blows with the staff is wild, literally. It gets into a whirling rythm with a blow landed ever two seconds or so, and it knocks down most human sized monsters, though it does not kill them. So while it is spinning between blows you have to find your next target as, a second later, here comes the next blow. Too cool. So a whole group of orcs charge me, and soon they are all on the backs, I back off and drop a fireball on them ;-))

[lostnumber]

The staff is tough to get used to. I had to force myself to use it in the beginning. I kept thinking that it was far too slow. After I got out of the "swing until nothing's moving" mindset it started to make a whole lot more sense. Staff fighting can be very effective, stun a few guys, kick one down and kill him, and then move on to the others. When combined with the use of magic a staff fighter can be quite a formidable foe. Using ice to make bad guys slip and then using the finishing move is very effective. Using fire arrow to fill up your adrenaline meter and then snapping someone’s neck works well. And of course your method of knocking everyone down and then lobbing a few fireballs at them can really clear a room. I have to say though; I am a little disappointed with the spell selection. It left me wanting a little more.

[txa1265]

That was me - staff weilding walking fire artillary! Having some points in melee makes the staff quite a weapon (and to think I started using it to look 'mage-like) And getting mana regen means never having to say you don't have a fireball ready ;)

[txa1265]

Just to let you know that my (first of two for this game) review is linked on the front page here (http://www.rpgwatch.com/#2589). Direct link is here (http://www.acegamez.us.com/reviews_pc/Dark_Messiah_Might_and_Magic_PC.htm).

[Sir Markus]

I have a 6800 GT and I was told to download the 84.21 drivers and that fixed all of my crash bugs, for what it's worth.

[Jaz]

One crash before I installed the patch (and that was my fault because I forgot to install it though I had d/led it before installing the game). Otherwise pretty stable on medium settings.

[txa1265]

They really seem to have done a very good job of patching up the stability!

[Jaz]

I didn't run into any other bugs, either - but since I'm such a predictable player, I hardly run into game-stopping bugs, anyway... at least not those caused by doing things out of order (the only game stopper I ran into and do remember was in SiN: the game crashed after a certain cut scene. But it did that for everyone, and was fixed ASAP).
All in all, I enjoyed DM quite a bit; I do have some issues with it, but those are issues I had with many recent games. For one thing, it was far too short; for another, being able to choose from several - slightly - different endings shortly before finishing the game prevented me from replaying it altogether, something I did consider at an earlier point (but to be true, they did exactly the same thing in both Deus Exes).
DMoMM reminded me - in a way - of Strife, one of my favorites of old; you had an 'invisible' female guide there, too, but certain actions actually had consequences (five different ending depending on actions you did during the first half of the game).

In short, it was a nice game, but I deleted it as soon as the credits had rolled over the screen. It managed to make me want to replay Arx, however :).

[Acleacius]

Spoilers!

I played this a couple of weeks ago, but never figured out what was going on due to bugs.

Could someone explain to me wth, actually happened? :)
I have the video bik bug, said to be fixed in 1.03 next patch so I can't even play them with a bik player as there is no sound.

Am I correct in thinking Master Phering just disappears from the story?
Who the heck was the Mage, Phering sent us too, that says in the dinner video (best I could make out), "I know why your really here." then goes on to say "Oh your really don't know why, maybe thats for the best".

Listening to his daugther and others talk she is a Good Mage (i.e. not evil, as I took it) so was her father in league with Evil Phering to get the Skull before the Necromancers?
Why would a Good Mage be in league with an Evil Mage to help bring on an Evil Prohpecy?

WTH just happened. :p

Thanks.

[txa1265]

Am I correct in thinking Master Phering just disappears from the story?
Yes. Perhaps while they were weaving a crappy story and unreasonable silly levels they thought nobody would notice tossing a main character ...
Who the heck was the Mage, Phering sent us too, that says in the dinner video (best I could make out), "I know why your really here." then goes on to say "Oh your really don't know why, maybe thats for the best".
I gave them a break on that one, assuming that he 'knew' but chose not to interfere with destiny / fate / whatever.

[fatBastard()]

They really seem to have done a very good job of patching up the stability!

Tell that to my machine please.:-/

I haven't really encountered any gameplay bugs ... well, that's probably mainly because I've only managed to get past the tutorial once and that only lasted a few minutes before yet another crash.

On the bright side, I now know the tutorial by heart since I must have played some 30+ times by now trying out different suggestions/tweaks but alas to no avail :'(

According to the official forum it would seem that Arcane are working hard on fixing the technical problems a lot of us is having so I can only hope that the next patch will allow me to play the game. Between problems and bugs in Dark Messiah and Gothic 3 I would have had a cranial meltdown if it wasn't for NWN2, so thank you Obsidian for saving my sanity ... well, what's left of it anyway ;)

[Acleacius]

Spoilers!


Wow, it makes absolutly no sence. :S

They had such a great (well good) story going for Arx's but this is nonsence.

I was guessing I just didn't know some M&M lore, which is very possible. ;)

I don't see how Lore could possibly explin this mess of a story, though. :(

It really makes me want to play Arx again as Jaz mentioned, just to have something solid and fun to play. :)

You know I could have understood if Phering was misleading the Mage but that dang Mage says "he knows why you are there" basicly even though we didn't and considering the story, wth hell else could he have been refering too?
Well unless half the story was ripped out?

[JDR13]

Was anyone else as disappointed by the final battle as I was? I guess I was just expecting more out of the last level after enjoying the majority of the game as much as I did.

I also experienced a ton of crashes before the first patch. Even after the patch, I still couldn't play the STEAM version because it kept locking up at the loading screens. I still get occasional crashes with the DVD version, but it's playable.

The game still has a lot of bugs though. For instance, I can't play with the texture detail set to high without a ton of stutters. That's unacceptable on a system with a Radeon X1950XTX. The funny thing is, I can see no visual difference between the high and medium settings anyways.

[Acleacius]

Yeah I got bored with the End Boss and reloaded and from the top of the stairs was trying to hit him at the alter.
It was funny when I hit him he would turn invis, start running around and can't find you cause your too far and high up. ;)

[JDR13]

I used the Sneak and Backstab skills to finish the first half of the battle in one hit.

You would think that an endboss would be imune to that.

[abbaon]

SPOILERS follow. Can we get [spoiler] tags in here? It requires the most trivial of forum hacks, half a dozen of versions of which you can find floating around the vBulletin forum.
You know I could have understood if Phering was misleading the Mage but that dang Mage says "he knows why you are there" basicly even though we didn't and considering the story, wth hell else could he have been refering too?
Well unless half the story was ripped out?
The mage and your mentor (I've forgotten everyone's names) served the same master, but the mage thought you would help him to retrieve the skull, when your mentor meant you to take it for yourself. He knew who you really were, whereas the mage did not. I think. I may have misremembered it, since I generally don't give a toss about game fiction.

[Jaz]

Your spoiler tag request has been passed on.

[Acleacius]

Spoilers.

abbaon, yes that seems correct and I gave it a little thought also.
Thing is Phering is Evil and serves an Evil Master you are correct, as I understand it too from what I could get from the story.
Yet the Mage he sends us too Metalag (or somethng) couldn't possibly be training is daughter (neice?) to be a good mage if he in fact was Evil, serving the same Master Phering.

She clearly is Good, able to see evil aruas and never strays in dialgoue.
I really could be missing out on M&M lore but at the most I could see Metalag is Neutral or fighting Necros.
Metalag specificly says ingame as he dies he was sorry he dragged her into this mess and she was crying, Evil don't play that. ;)

Why would he seek help or offer help to a clearly Evil Mage bent on helping destroy the world?
This is considering as Metalag says "I know why your here" and "better you don't know yourself"

I have no doubt that Phering was using Metalag but what could have been Metalag's possible motive to help destroy the world?
He clearly had a castle and a whole town which from the sounds of things did a good job of protecting people.
They were simple people in the town/castle area not some Doomsday cult, he oversaw and protected.

O'well. :)

[Sir Markus]

I had fun with Dark Messiah. It's a little clunky, but it was enjoyable, IMO. My problem is it has almost zero connection with anything resembling the 'Might and Magic' game world. I hope at some point somebody makes a Might and Magic game that at least resembles a CRPG. <sigh>

[Agathul]

Got it, finished it, enjoyed it. Runs well on on my comp (geforce 6800 seems to work fine with it after all), my only beef is with rather silly story and and the constant moaning of Xana. Then again I might not be the target audience.
Got into habit of blocking on my second playthrough, the game IS easy on normal, only time I really needed healing was during that Arathok fight. Hit detection is somewhat odd, impaling works half of the time and headshots don't register correctly.

Still wishing for a game that has dismemberment while the opponent is still alive :( atleast DBTS still runs on XP.

[JemyM]

Feels more like a First Person Shooter than a Roleplaying Game, however, I had fun. Not the greatest game ever but enough to keep me going.

I decided to play mage, meaning I skipped all combat skills...

However, I finished the first six chapters only using noob doubleknives, boot and healingspell. It's first now in Chapter 6 I bothered to buy my first real attackspells since I have Mana Regeneration now. I had a tactic (that still works I think) in which I powerattacked with knives, kicked the foe, powerattacked, kicked, powerattacked, kicked. I defeated 6 chapters with that technique.

[Acleacius]

Hey if your intrested before you meet Leanna the first time in the house you can go in with an upstairs.

Spoiler

The light fixture is a switch that releases a rope, climbing reveals a secret chest with +4 daggers and +4 (+2 for sure)Crit, it's the Gutting daggers at the Spider Temple after killing the Cyclops and head outside along the mountians.

Still in Spoilers.
Hint you can do almost anything with a Charming personality. ;)

[JemyM]

Im in Chapter 7 now. Not a single crash, not a single glitch. I have a A64/GeForce SLI/Soundblaster setup (common hardware that is) with all the latest drivers. I have had no problems with the controls, in fact, I think they are above many other games. I found Chapter 7 a letdown though.

Slight spoiler:
In Chapter 7 you miss your "backpack" the first part of the chapter. But I am a MAGE. I should have my spells IN MY HEAD. I also only have 50 health so I can survive about 2 attacks from orcs, and I rely on my healingspell (gone) to survive.

[JemyM]

Finished the game. Short ending. The A.I of friends was extremely bad. Nice waste of time though.

[Acleacius]

JemyM
"The A.I of friends was extremely bad."
Hehe, yes it was I always had Leanna stay back, though on teh upside getting the Ship back and in the Temple at the Gate where she was in the action scene she did Heal me and cast Fire Arrows.

I still can't find out what that key is for you find on the Orc Near the Stream in the Spider cave.

Yeah chap 7 wasn't great but it did kinda make sence to the story.

[JemyM]

JemyM
"The A.I of friends was extremely bad."
Hehe, yes it was I always had Leanna stay back, though on teh upside getting the Ship back and in the Temple at the Gate where she was in the action scene she did Heal me and cast Fire Arrows.

I still can't find out what that key is for you find on the Orc Near the Stream in the Spider cave.

Yeah chap 7 wasn't great but it did kinda make sence to the story.

Once I found out that I could make Leanna stop, I used that function everytime there was a battle. She was absolutely not allowed to help. :)

The majority of the reloads I had was to try to get Duncan and other people in the burning city to survive. In 19 cases out of 20, they started to attack me instead, often for no appearent reason. It's like a kick in their general direction is enough to tick them and the rest of the population off, which makes it near impossible to save them from swarming ghouls.

I also had a key for most of the game that I could not get rid off.

[Acleacius]

Yeah saving Duncan was virtually impossible for me, Iwas actaully able to save all the others with reloads, though some were badly wonded.
I even tested by Maxing out my skills and spells even Charm at 1 or 2 point cost will pull all enemies to them, well the first half of the game making life easy for Backstabs, though in the second half you have to be careful not to get to close to the groups attacking the Charmed.
Anyway I think they intend Duncan to be killed just so Xeanna can say that annoying line. :)


I think it's the strike zones they are porrly setup, all weapons and creatue arms (any melee weapon) seem to be twice as long when measuring the hitblock range, than they are visually represented.

[JemyM]

I actually do not think Duncan is meant to be saved but I did it through lots and lots of saves/reloads using kick's in the right direction, sending the ghouls over the edge or onto the spikes. Afterwards Duncan ran around in circles like he was engaging combat, he did not say anything special.

[Acleacius]

Exactly what happened to me too, he never stopped moving, iir he almost seemed to be running to spawn points looking for a Ghoul to kill hum. :p

Duncan, "Hey somebody, Kill me this is my scene!"

[Jaz]

Aww, drats. Saving him would have been my only motivation to reinstall the game.

[Acleacius]

Well as JemyM said it can be done but it's damn hard, don't even try it on Hard or Hardcore (new patch level) modes and the other 6 or 8 you can save much easier. :)

How is LoLGoD going?

[Jaz]

I split off our LoL content and formed another thread (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=958) dedicated to the lands of Lore games.