Fallout 3?

[Dhruin]

So, we've seen Fallout 3 presented several times now and even NMA now has a first-hand look. Some love Bethesda's approach, some want a classic approach. What do you think? What do you think of what you've seen so far?

[Dhruin]

Strident debate is welcome but let's keep any abuse under control, yes? ;)

This sort of thing can be easily manipulated but hopefully specific fan communities (on either side) won't weigh in too heavily so we can get some sort of view of what RPGWatch readers think.

My vote: can't decide.

I've always been in favour of a classic sequel (turn-based, overhead camera) but given the direction I knew Bethsoft would always take, I like the general look and feel from the trailer but don't like magic-hammer-wielding-mutants, handheld nukes, silly humour and have significant doubts about the whole find-Liam-Neeson thing, which just doesn't feel like the sort of story Fallout should have.

[txa1265]

There is definitely a 'SB' or Yoda option missing ;)

[magerette]

So as to not add further grey hairs and anxiety issues, I've vowed to stay out of the Fallout debate, but I did vote--not impressed so far.

[Brother None]

This sort of thing can be easily manipulated but hopefully specific fan communities (on either side) won't weigh in too heavily so we can get some sort of view of what RPGWatch readers think.

What, you mean the poll?

NMA has a proven history of sucking badly in amassing people to vote in polls :P

PS: voted "Not impressed, but time will tell"

[Corwin]

I'm with Dhruin on this one; I really want to like it, just like I wanted NWN2 and Oblivion to be good!!

[Lucky Day]

I'm split between hate it and can't decide. My hate it reasons are probably different from many others however. Like those skeletons with picket signs outside the vault the way they read it sounds like Beth is pandering to Beavis and Butthead for customers.

Bro None - I now remember how I found the Dot. It was either NMA or D&C that said that the Dot had a Top 100 of RPG's and linked it so they could flood the site with votes for the Fallouts. That's when the then editors had to fix it to require comments and registration.

I would say either you guys or D&C have a good track record for fixing pills so don't be too hard on yourselves.

[Brother None]

I would say either you guys or D&C have a good track record for fixing pills so don't be too hard on yourselves.

Really? I don't recall that. I do remember when Gamespy or some site had a "battle of the games" in which 2 games would slug it out and the votes would determine the best in a big, playoff competition for best game of all time, I remember NMA encouraging voting on Fallout a lot there.

I guess all that encouraging of voting started tiring our users after a while.

[abbaon]

Level design and combat AI will make or break a game focused on gunplay. I haven't seen even a vague outline of their plans for those areas, so for now, no opinion.

[Acleacius]

Dhruin, thanks for eliminating the option from the last poll, "RPGWatch should not even cover this", in this poll. :)
As I just posted in the BioShock poll how disappointed I am that category was included in the final results.

Here we have a group of people (supposedly) whom intend to change the content/context of RPGWatch, from an General RPG site to a "omg, it's not my personal definition of a pure RPG, so RPGWatch shouldn't care", whom didn't even seem to show the least cursory effort of making a case for this position, for the community to react to and debate.

I sincerely hope that you remove those results or at the very least please don't include them in the future if not even a minimalist position is offered.
Apologies for being on such a hard-line on this but it's seems like a subversive attempt to undermine the community by not putting forth a position. :)

Back on topic, I voted “Not impressed, but time will tell”, though I would like to have seen “Disappointed, but time will tell”, since I can be impressed with and do enjoy nice graphics, though they are not necessary.

The real problem I have with the game is bethseda’s seemingly complete disregard for meaningful dialogue, gameplay and story, or maybe it's their inability to achieve these qualities, while hiding behind the lies of PR.

They constantly mislead the press and fans with out right falsehoods about the game and content, then backtrack when they get caught, as we experienced in their previous title.

As a recent example of Emil Pagliarulo in the 1UP interview http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3162284
"We went back and forth with the impact of dialogue on the character, and ultimately decided we didn't want to penalize or reward the player for carrying on a conversation."

Then immediately recanted when he was caught off guard by the game-world’s lack of support of meaningless dialogue, in this thread http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=748460&st=60&p=10837831&#entry10837831.

edit
If my position is to strong please feel free to delete my post, appoligies I didnt see your post till after I posted this Dhruin.

[Dhruin]

I don't see anything that's too strong. And I understand your point about putting a case for not covering Bioshock but I'm still interested in that sort of feedback, even if proponents don't make a case.

[Prime Junta]

I voted with Brother None on this one. I would have been hovering between that and "some concerns," but his piece on the demo tipped me to "time will tell."

[titus]

I can't decide. I admit I haven't read all the articles in full but more with a quick eye.
Maybe if there are some demos and real screenshot that I will know more.
Never played F1 or F2 only a short demo So I don't know that much of the games really, but I have to admit I am interested in Fallout 3 but not so Interested like I will be in the Witcher and the new Jowood and Pb games

[Zakhary]

I think they are doing great. I'm a big fan of the originals, too. Fallout 2 being my favourite PC game ever. Only thing I'm a bit worried about is the lack of prostitutes :D They were somehow so.. hmm.. important .. in fallout 2 :D

I also think that the combat system is a very nice idea. Could work very well.

Oh.. and I'm not a bethesda fanboy. I did love Daggerfall and Morrowind (morrowind in my top5 list of CRPGS) but was a bit dissapointed with oblivion.

[txa1265]

I'm at 'good but some concerns'.

My thought is that it 'looks' good, but while I had fun in Oblivion it was not tense and a post-Apoc *shooter* needs tension. So it depends on the emphasis on the 'Action' game side in my mind. (not I'm not defining RPG's or FO3's place in it, just recognizing that there are both RPG and action elements here and they will play out differently than in Oblivion). I am also generally concern that RPG elements will turn out largely vacuous and vanilla like in Oblivion.

[Foss]

I voted "looks good, but with some concerns".

I am trying to keep my expectations down after some disapointments with Oblivion and other recent games.

But, seeing the info we have gotten so far about Fallout 3, it does to me seems like it will be a good game. But its also impossible to know how the important things in the game will feel like at this point.
Yes we know that it will be 1st and 3rd person view instead of isometric, but that doesn't really matter to me. Its the story, the setting and the dialog and choices that are important.
And though they say they are using alot of time on those things to make it good, its still impossible to know how those things will turn out before you play it.
And seeing how Oblivion turned out compared to Morrowind, I am concerned that they might go the same way and downgrade the RPG elements even though they try to indicate otherwise.

[Corwin]

Welcome to the forums; nice to see someone from the beautiful city you live in!!

[aries100]

I voted 'good, but I have some concerns.'

I'm not that concerned about the actual gameplay's choice & consequences. However, I'm concerned that what brother none called 'verisimilitude' wouldn't be up to par.

It seems, to me, that what brother none wrote in the NMA preview, probably is true.
Especially about the setting: it seems like a generic post apoc setting added with a sprinkle of Fallout. I'm also concerned about the BoS being knights of the wasteland :rolleyes: and that supermutants are only seen as bad -aehm- people?

On the positive ist that you will need science skills to unlock & hack things, tnat you will need skills in small arms and big guns to actually hit somone or something, that you apparently can

From the info on VATS, I sort of figured that it was some sort of realtime w/ pause like Bioware did in the 1990's with the infinity engine. Also, from the info that they've three options, one for neutral, one for good and one for a bad option.
Does this means that Bethsoft are making some sort Bioware game?? :rolleyes: O_O Not that this necessarily are bad. It just seems to be sort of non creative and non innovative solutions to me o_o Just like the game's supermutants do. The look like a cross between the Uruk Hai's from LOTR and the orcs from either Oblivion, Baldur's Gate or Oblivion.

I'm also a bit concerned about the silly humour, and Todd's vision that violence somehow is funny. Yes, violence in the tom & jerry show is funny, because violence in this series is used to portray a conflict between the two, not just used for it's own sake, like I get the feeling it is in Fallout 3 :S ?

As for the 1up interview, Emil mentioned that game dialogue did not affect the ending. And that was he said more precizely on the Bethesda Forums. Karma, e.g. the actions made throughout the game influences the ending of the game. Whch, sort of makes sense...

[Reyla]

There should be one more category:

The game is 4 years away. It is hard to vote based on concept art and interviews.

[Asbjoern]

There should be one more category:

The game is 4 years away. It is hard to vote based on concept art and interviews.

As far as I know the announced release date is fall 2008, which in my screwed up mind makes it now approximately one 1 year away from release.

[xSamhainx]

*Looks* good, but kinda concerned how it actually plays. I wish that they would have thought more about how casually nukes are injected in the game.

[BillSeurer]

I'm also a bit concerned about the silly humour, and Todd's vision that violence somehow is funny. Yes, violence in the tom & jerry show is funny, because violence in this series is used to portray a conflict between the two, not just used for it's own sake, like I get the feeling it is in Fallout 3 :S ?

Fallout and Fallout 2 were filled with silly humor and violence is funny stuff, you know that right?

[Chem]

I find the criticisms so far stated for this game to be very weak actually. I played FO1 and FO2 for years with all sorts of different character combos and loved it. What I liked best about the game was the concept, the feeling, and the universe that was created - not the graphics, or the combat system. And I personally don't feel that Bethesda has dropped the ball on this account. The NMA article criticizes Bethesda for not being innovative enough in their approach... what do they want in the way of innovation? Because I am sure that if Bethesda came at this project from an approach that differed radically from the core elements of the originals the NMA criticism would be that it doesn't adhere to the "core principles" of the series - damned if you do, damned if you don't. The other piece of concern from the NMA article regards the final analysis by BrotherNone that states, "Fallout 3 looks like a well-produced, very pretty, very fun game that'll provide quite a few people with a lot of hours of enjoyment. However, I don't think it's anything more than a very pretty and fun game." How is that a bad thing? It's like the NMA article authors need a life-changing event in their gaming... shouldn't a game really be for fun?

[aries100]

Yes, I know that there are silly humour in Fallout 1+2, however, it seems to be more subtle and downplayed than what Bethesda are doing in Fallout 3. Violence in Fallout 1+2 was also funny, sometimes, but often it was more unintentional (e.g. not to be perceieved as funny) - and that made it funny.

[Foss]

Welcome to the forums; nice to see someone from the beautiful city you live in!!

Thank you :)

[GhanBuriGhan]

It seems, to me, that what brother none wrote in the NMA preview, probably is true.
Especially about the setting: it seems like a generic post apoc setting added with a sprinkle of Fallout. I'm also concerned about the BoS being knights of the wasteland :rolleyes: and that supermutants are only seen as bad -aehm- people?

I don't know, isn't the "generic post apocalyptic setting with a sprinkling of Fallout", exactly what the Fallout setting is? Generic post nuclear world, with the 50s retro-future twist?
Visually at least, I think they have captured this well from what I have seen.

Some of the other bits are maybe somewhat worrying, especially considering Bethesdas late record on simple stroytelling, but on the other hand its still too early to tell how the writing turns out. One thing is clear, they need to up their writing considerably from Oblivion to get it right.

[Maylander]

Voted for "can't decide". Some previews call it Oblivion with guns, others say it's a game made to fit the Fallout legacy. To me, Oblivion and Fallout are worlds apart, so I have yet to get a clear picture of what Bethesda is really making - it can't be *both* Oblivion with guns, and still true to the Fallout legacy; that is impossible.

[Guhndahb]

I voted "Good, but some concerns" thanks to a combination of naive optimism and avoidance of information about the game so as not to spoil the experience when I inevitably play it. My concerns are fairly big ones (to me). While there was certainly silliness in the Fallouts, there was still an ever present gritty realism that always appeals to me in games. Some elements I've heard about in Fallout 3 seem to exceed the level of silliness I can tolerate. I'm equally disappointed with some of the elements being omitted because they are too controversial. But it's hard to blame them for that. All in all, I'm determined not to prejudge too much.

[Ubereil]

I voted "Good, but some concerns" thanks to a combination of naive optimism and avoidance of information about the game so as not to spoil the experience when I inevitably play it. My concerns are fairly big ones (to me). While there was certainly silliness in the Fallouts, there was still an ever present gritty realism that always appeals to me in games. Some elements I've heard about in Fallout 3 seem to exceed the level of silliness I can tolerate. I'm equally disappointed with some of the elements being omitted because they are too controversial. But it's hard to blame them for that. All in all, I'm determined not to prejudge too much.

Perfect, now I won't have to write a reply on my own! :D That's my reply. Well, that - the humor thing (that's one of the main reasons I liked the second so much, while it was sincere most of the time it made fun of itself in a hillarious way from time to time).

Übereil

[Acleacius]

Selfdeprecating humor might be a good way to describe F1 & F2 humor, which is much more difficult to write, more accessable and much more memorable, certinaly more so than the sort of laughing "at you" humor bethesda seems to be use.

[curiously undead]

boy do i share that sentiment Acleacius.

[Ionstormsucks]

This will be the bestest game eva! It will get even higher scores than Bioshock, because it's Bethesda, and because reviews will be surrounded by all sides with advertisements for Fallout 3! And playing the game for more than one hour will heal cancer, impotence, and acne.

[Acleacius]

I just did a search to find a Omega Syndrome review and found one on Duck and Cover.
I noticed they had a F3 poll also and the strange thing is their results seem to mirror RPGWatch's.
http://www.duckandcover.cx/content.php?id=64

Also they had a nice pic of todd, whom couldn't seem to keep his eyes off the interviewers cleavage, during G4.
http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/displayimage.php?album=79&pos=11

Certinaly seems intresting that 66% of fans are either not sure or not happy and with only 33% are positive about the game.

[magerette]

Funny pic--that microphone is close enough for a little head slappage. :)

AFA the polls, you have to put them in context, (RPG fans and people who enjoyed the original Fallouts) but I agree that even so, 66% shows that the hype isn't working for many.

[Maylander]

Haha Ionstormsucks, certain games are MIRACLES! Some day we'll replace the entire medical community with a game from Bethesda. I can see the commercials already:

"Are you fat? Lonely? Bored? Bald? Impotent? Tired? Come on then, play Fallout 4 from Bethesda, and you'll be just like me in no time!" - Yet another famous actor signed by Bethesda.

At any rate, they do make decent games, I just don't consider them as revolutionary as the reviewing community.

[DArtagnan]

Every game Bethesda has done has been about potential as opposed to realised potential. I've seen or heard nothing about Fallout 3 that would make me think otherwise.

Furthermore, ever since Morrowind, they've been focused on designing their games around their perception of what the typical console audience desires, which for a hardcore PC gamer such as myself, is not good.

So, I'd have to say the closest option is "not impressed...."

Fallout was the quintessential PC RPG, and as such, I have a very hard time appreciating Bethesda at the helm of the second sequel. It's like putting an X-Com sequel in the hands of Lionhead Studios or something. I can just imagine Molyneux: "½ button tactical combat! People don't like pressing their mouse buttons, so we make them apply only half the pressure this time around so they last twice as long before putting the game down."

Yeah, those guys know all about game design, or they wouldn't have sold millions of copies.

[Acleacius]

Funny how no one talks about bethesda's second 2006 smash hit.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/931494.asp?q=star%20trek%20legacy

Personally when a great company like (crap what was there name again) has two master pieces in one year, it really shows how you F3 nay sayers don't have a leg to stand on. :)

[Moriendor]

Personally when a great company like (crap what was there name again) has two master pieces in one year, it really shows how you F3 nay sayers don't have a leg to stand on. :)

It's also great when people (crap what was his name again?) can differentiate between developing and publishing a game :) .

[Ubereil]

Funny how no one talks about bethesda's second 2006 smash hit.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/931494.asp?q=star%20trek%20legacy

Personally when a great company like (crap what was there name again) has two master pieces in one year, it really shows how you F3 nay sayers don't have a leg to stand on. :)


Master piece? The BEST score it got in those reviews was 65%!

Übereil

[DArtagnan]

I'm pretty sure sarcasm was involved :)

[Acleacius]

Moriendor
Oh he can (crap what was his name again?) but todd was all over it as I remember him doing interviews about how excited he was about securing all the captians and todd's a very hands on kinda guy.
http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/displayimage.php?album=79&pos=11

As I recall I didn't say they developed it (crap, whatever your name was again). :)

DArtagnan
Yes, just trying to have a bit of fun. :)

[DArtagnan]

The games I think about in relation to Bethesda (as the creators of FO3) are:

The Elderscrolls Arena
The Elderscrolls Daggerfall
The Terminator: Future Shock
The Elderscrolls Legends: Battlespire
The Elderscrolls Adventures: Redguard
The Elderscrolls Morrowind (and expansions)
The Elderscrolls Oblivion (and expansion)

Bethesda developed and released a ton of sports and racing games internally as well, but I don't really take them into consideration as they're not related to FO in terms of genre or style.

Every single game on my list has serious flaws that prevent it from realising its potential, except perhaps for Redguard which had a modest ambition and which I didn't bother to complete. However, it seemed reasonably well done overall for what it was.

This is of course entirely my personal opinion, but I really do think the flaws in question are serious enough to instill permanent doubt in me, regarding their ability to ever create a wholesome quality experience. But hopefully I will one day be proven wrong, and given the fact that they're using a variant of the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system instead of their own extremely dull system from TES games, there might be a shimmer of hope with FO3.

Too bad I'm not really into the whole post-apocalyptic setting which I find a bit too depressing. I know I'm a freak here, but I couldn't enjoy Fallout on quite the same level as most of you undoubtedly did. But as a game, it was consistently great from start to finish.

[akarthis]

i vote not impressed.But when i think that a fallout title will have the dialogues of oblivion or morrowind(i liked that) well.....then no need to spend points in intelligence.

[Dez]

Can't decide.

It can anything from good to horrible. I made a decision a long time ago not read any of the previewes because the oblivion case proved how easily those journalists can be manipulated by benth's pr machine (radiant A.i anyone?). Better to wait reviews (and even then be very sceptical).

[Roland]

From what I've read and seen (video/pictures) it looks like a lot of fun!

I'm not a purest or elitist...if a game is fun for me to play I play it, period.

I don't need or want some grandiose philosophical decision making process, I have a wide variety of tastes when it comes to games and it doesn't take me long to know if I like something or not.

Looking forward to giving it a go :)

And yes I did play the original and enjoyed it as well...but nothing imo needs to be copied or set in stone ;)

Looking forward to Bethesda's take on the franchise/world/game!

Regards

(won't be long now)

[Remus]

Voted "Good, but some concerns". Fallout 3 sound good, but still could turn up as a turd based previous Bethesda's record on good story telling and uninspired questing system. Will wait for reviews and forum comments before decide to buy or not.

[JDR13]

This game is a no-brainer for me. I'll be getting the CE as soon as it's available.

[Konjad]

Fallout 3 is going to be a crap as far as I know. But why do I think like that?
First of all - Oblivion. It wasn't a bad game but it wasn't also RPG. It was an action game with RPG elements and that's all. Fallout 3 should be a RPG - with interesting dialogues (not dumb monologues like in oblivion), choices&consequences (not like "kill it with magic or kill it with sword?"). Morrowind was far better than Oblivion (more skills, interesting world etc, but I wouldn't call it RPG anyway) but Oblivion sold much better so Beth is going to release second Oblivion.
Second reason is Bethesda never made any RPG. TES series has not much RPG elements. Not much dialogues, choices etc.
Third reason is everything they showed us so far. It just looks like FPS with RPG elements, same as STALKER. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what I think.

It'll be horrible as cRPG, but I don't know if it's going to be fun as FPS.

[zakhal]

I just read the news today that console fallout has leaked and is in distribution & available freely at warez sites. Thats month before release. So much for supporting the game for not using a DRM. :/

At this rate I feel like giving up on buying games. I could easily d/l free all my games just like everyone else I know. Why the hell should I pay for them? Bah.

[GhanBuriGhan]

I just read the news today that console fallout has leaked and is in distribution & available freely at warez sites. Thats month before release. So much for supporting the game for not using a DRM. :/

At this rate I feel like giving up on buying games. I could easily d/l free all my games just like everyone else I know. Why the hell should I pay for them? Bah.

If you do everything that everybody else does, you also have to play Sims, listen to Britney Spears, and die with 78 years. Revel in your individuality, man.

Pirates will be pirates, Arrrr.

[Corwin]

If everybody became a pirate, there'd be no money for new games to be made!!

[HiddenX]

If I want a new Harry Potter book - it should be written by Joanne Rowling.

If I want a new Fallout - it should be designed by Timothy Cain, Leonard Boyarsky, Jason D. Anderson, Christopher Taylor, Jason Taylor, Scott Campbell and programmed by Timothy Cain and Chris Jones.

...time will tell.

[txa1265]

I just read the news today that console fallout has leaked and is in distribution & available freely at warez sites. Thats month before release. So much for supporting the game for not using a DRM. :/

At this rate I feel like giving up on buying games. I could easily d/l free all my games just like everyone else I know. Why the hell should I pay for them? Bah.

I have no idea how this makes any sense at all?

[Brother None]

I have no idea how this makes any sense at all?

I think he's disheartened to see how dishonest thieves win out over honest consumers - once again. A kind of "if I can't beat 'em, join 'em", perhaps (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth, zakhal)

I can understand a beat of defeatism when faced with the insurmountable wall of piracy. Not just from producers, but it's disheartening as a consumer to see someone else get what you pay for for free.

[txa1265]

I think he's disheartened to see how dishonest thieves win out over honest consumers - once again.

But this is a *console* piracy thing - if anything it should be a wake up call to PC publishers, sort of "we were too smart to believe your crap ... and this pretty much seals it."

[JDR13]

How the hell would someone play a pirated Xbox game anyways? I thought the Xbox 360 used some kind of proprietary HD DVD format.

[txa1265]

How the hell would someone play a pirated Xbox game anyways? I thought the Xbox 360 used some kind of proprietary HD DVD format.

There are always mod chips ... don't know how they circumvent the XBOX Live stuff ... but I know it is pretty rampant.

[Remus]

Yup and the console piracy have been exist for years, and sometime the shop that sold the consoles also help consumer modified the system to play pirated game.

[GothicGothicness]

It's easy to pirate a XBOX 360 game it uses a DVD format, and you can also mount it from the xbox hard-drive. Wii is even easier. However the PS3 cannot yet be modded to play pirated games. However many people think it is too much work to mod the XBOX 360 and it voids the warranty etc etc etc. The piracy on the PC is just too easy you don't need to make any effort at all, it is even easier than buying the game. Neither do you void any warranty, I guess that's another reason so many PC gamers pirates.

[zakhal]

I have no idea how this makes any sense at all?

Does this direct comment from one pirate help you understand? (translated from finnish)
Its great that som people are willing to pay for games. They fund the
game development and make it possible for us smart people to download the games free. As for myself I put that money elsewhere i.e reduce my house loan. Its much nicer to buy few squaremeters of house during the years with that game money.

http://plaza.fi/edome/uutiset/piratismi-yllatti-talla-kertaa-nintendon

[zakhal]

Fate is really trying lure me to become a freeloader. Amazon cancelled my fallout3 order without any reason:
Dear Customer,

We wanted to give you an update on the status of your order #XXXXXXX.

We are sorry to report that the release of the following item has been
cancelled:

"Fallout 3 UK Collectors Edition (PC)"

This item has now been cancelled from your order and we can confirm that
you have not been charged for it.

Please accept our apologies for any disappointment or inconvenience
caused.

[Konjad]

Amazon cancelled my fallout3 order without any reason:
What? They told you what is the reason:
release of the following item has been
cancelled:

"Fallout 3 UK Collectors Edition (PC)"

[sherwinz28]

I am definately awaiting this game as well. The pics look good but I don't judge a game by its graphics. I usually play games on middle to low graphics because I tend to be a generation or so behind in hardware.

I definately fell into the hype for Oblivion buying the collectors edition on the first day...had to drive to 3 different stores since stores already sold out in my area. I definately spent a large numbers of hours in the game and tried out some mods. I hate to say it though, I never finished the main quest. I got too caught up in side quests and exploration and then started on a different game (Wizardry8 solo fairy ninja). I loved the ability to powergame as well but it was definately a bit more action oriented. I still consider it an RPG though.

In regards to the xbox leak, in a way I'm glad because the publishers now know that they can't just ignore PC users because consoles get hacked as well.

[zakhal]

What? They told you what is the reason:
I just had the same email, it seems the collecters edition for the PC has been cancelled not the console ones. I just ordered the standard PC version, I'm not paying £25 more for the PS3 Special Edition, I don't need a lunch box that much lol.
Well I didnt expect that - I thought it was just out of stock or somthing. Now I feel like getting stabbed - PC game doesnt get CE but consoles do? This sucks if its true - thank you PC pirates for this one too.

I dont feel like buying fallout3 CE for xbox incase fallout3 gets similar mod treatment as ES series. I guess Ill buy nothing then if there is no PC CE - I just wait the prices to drop since there is no hurry to buy it.

[Corwin]

There's still a CE for PC, just not for the UK apparently. I have it on pre-order here.

[narpet]

I have the CE for the PC on pre-order as well... and I haven't received any cancellation notice, so as far as I can tell there's still a CE for the PC, for at least the U.S.

[JDR13]

Does this direct comment from one pirate help you understand? (translated from finnish)

That guy is an obvious moron. I love the comment about buying "few squaremeters of house" with game money. That could apply to anything, not just games. He's simply trying to make an excuse for being a cheap, ignorant, prick who doesn't want to pay for a product.

[Dhruin]

I don't really get the CE-or-nothing attitude. It's a shame but various markets (other than NA, of course) often don't get CE versions - what's wrong with the normal version?

As for the pirate quoted earlier...just a jerk; the world is full of them.

[zakhal]

I don't really get the CE-or-nothing attitude.

Im not in hurry to play every game as soon as they are released (somtimes full of bugs) so if I dont buy the CE I just wait for the price of the normal edition to drop to say 15€ and save few bucks.

Before fallout3 Im still going to play atleast the fall: gaia reloaded and the brotherhood of steel (+possibly both stalkers) and I havent even started those yet. I just finished wasteland.

Somtimes I do buy normal editions as-soon-as-they-are-released but fallout3 doesnt seem that good after all the bad mouthing and leaking Ive seen in every forum.
I have the CE for the PC on pre-order as well... and I haven't received any cancellation notice, so as far as I can tell there's still a CE for the PC, for at least the U.S.
Ok. Lots of people are wondering why amazon cancelled the orders - they never gave any reason. Game.co.uk has cancelled too but they said that the game is too heavy or somthing. I switched my order back to play.com - hope they dont cancel too.

[Dhruin]

If it doesn't seem that good, why would you want the CE version? :)

[zakhal]

Im a fallout/nuclear holocaust/shooter fan and even though f3 its not a good game its still propably an enjoyable average radioactive-wasteland-shooter with a twist. Also the CE contents dont look that bad for its price - I might even have use for the lunchbox.

[JDR13]

How do we know if Fallout 3 is or isn't a good game? Maybe we should actually play it first. ;)

[Elwro]

How do we know if Fallout 3 is or isn't a good game? Maybe we should actually play it first. ;)Yes, we do not "know", of course. We just make reasonable predictions from the available data. I don't recall an occasion on which this approach to estimating a game's worth before its release wouldn't work.

And I want to have grounds to believe a game is good or bad BEFORE I shell out lots of money for it. How can I do it, if there's no demo? I can only read previews, search for dev interviews and so on. A sound critique of some of the given game's aspects doesn't need to be based on actual experience of the game on part of the person expressing the critique in question.

[JDR13]

Yes, we do not "know", of course. We just make reasonable predictions from the available data. I don't recall an occasion on which this approach to estimating a game's worth before its release wouldn't work.

I could name a few instances when that approach didn't work.

Gothic 3 for one... ;)


A sound critique of some of the given game's aspects doesn't need to be based on actual experience of the game on part of the person expressing the critique in question.

No, but it's going to be far inferior to that of someone who has actually played it.

[Elwro]

Well, somehow I'm pretty sure our opinions on Gothic 3 differ :-) But Lionheart and Oblivion are good examples of the general rule I was talking about. Every justified criticism I can remember which had been stated before the games' releases turned out to be true. I don't see how Fallout 3 will suddenly become an exception.

And as for your second statement - it depends on the person who has "actually played" the game. Just look at Oblivion boards and legions of people who have "actually played" the game and claim it is a great RPG because you can roleplay someone taking a nap after eating a meal. I don't see such opinions being far superior to the valid criticisms raised about the game by people who have never played it.

[JDR13]

Well, somehow I'm pretty sure our opinions on Gothic 3 differ :-).


I'm betting you're wrong there, I actually really enjoyed Gothic 3. The vast majority of fans were let down though, and you can't really blame them. :-/

[Gragnak]

I can only judge by waht we've seen on the net.
I voted "I hate it" because it seems Bethesda has transformed Fallout in a FPS with rpg elements. Real time combat and first person risk to spoil the game of its strong points. Also the semi-scalable monster level is disappointing. I'll wait to read some other review.

[quasimodo]

Not impressed. I think it will be quite a suprise if the developers of Oblivion make an FPS game and have it be something I would call an RPG. For it to be a decent Fallout sequel will require divine intervention.