Halo 3

[Lucky Day]

The hype machine is in full gear on this one and the mainstream press is slobbering over themselves parroting whatever MS's PR department says about it.

And they are saying some pretty entertaining stuff such as the launch will be bigger than Spiderman 3. MS reports 1 000 000 preoders for the game.

I remember the last Halo and noting to myself, wow, yet another FPS. I can't see what the big deal is with these other than a lack of decent FPS's for XBox and 360. I also recall Halo 1 was the same for the Mac and that James Bond one for PS2.

[DArtagnan]

Halo franchise = 40% Multiplayer + 50% Hype + 10% Singleplayer

[txa1265]

Halo franchise = 40% Multiplayer + 50% Hype + 10% Singleplayer

hehe .... Tom Chick certainly thinks so (http://www.quartertothree.com/inhouse/news/365/) ... use that equation when weighing all the 90%+ reviews this week.

All I know is that I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the PC version of Halo 2 a couple of months ago ... really crap.

[Asbjoern]

Halo 1 for the PC was a joke too so I've never really bothered to take an interest in either Halo 2 or Halo 3.

[zakhal]

Halo 1 was averige at best. The series raises no interest in me.

[Jaz]

While I thought Halo 1 was a fun game when played while spreadeagled on the living room sofa, it couldn't compare to my favorite shooters. To put it mildly, console controls and shooters are not a natural combination; it's not a genre I'd buy for consoles (the only one I ever bought was the super cool Wolf3D for SNES - Halo was hubby's game), just like I don't buy fighting games for the PC (not after Toshinden 1... though, being fair, I shouldn't have bought Toshinden 2 for PSOne, either: the series is simply bad). While watching hubby play Halo was fun, I found it tedious when playing it myself.
Perhaps the hype results from what Lucky said, there are no decent shooters for consoles.

[xSamhainx]

It seems to me to be just the fact that it's the latest successor to the biggest FPS on console ever, the one that launched the pc vs console FPS debate in the first place. Or maybe I'm all wet on that, I have a terrible memory this late at night.

I generally just cant get into the FPS on console thing. It's just not intrinsically suited to it, it's like hammering in a nail with a piece of steel pipe. But with that caveat damning the the entire genre as a whole for me personally, I'd have to say that the original Halo did have some fun stuff at times, like the vehicles for example. Played it a few times MP, while it was fun, not much more than any other shooter. Console shooter, that is.

To me, it's an emergency FPS unit for company when conversation dries up, or boredom sets in.

I didnt even finish the SP campaign so I might have missed out on more, but part of the reason I didnt finish it is because aiming is so frustrating at times. You need to like snap and flick it to be really good at it, which i obviously am not.

[Lucky Day]

My local newspaper made Halo 3 its cover story today complete with four color graphics.

How much money do you got to spend to make local rags pretend advertising is the top news of the day?

Halo 1 was the first big Mac FPS wasn't it? I've been watching the "goodbye" ads for Halo 2 and I must say the graphics stink. I stil ldon't know what the appeal of that game was.

One of the cheats they use is the faces - there aren't any. As long as you can strap helmets on your characters your faces can't look dated.

Sorry for being jaded - it was just a shocker seeing it in the newsrack coming out of the bowling alley 20 minutes ago.

[txa1265]

Halo 1 was the first big Mac FPS wasn't it? I've been watching the "goodbye" ads for Halo 2 and I must say the graphics stink. I stil ldon't know what the appeal of that game was.
Bungie was right there alongside id in terms of shooters - Pathway into Darkness was '93, and then the landmark shooter Marathon was 94. That is probably the one you are thinking of - it had Windows folks (OK, DOS) drooling ...

And Halo was supposed to be Mac & PC before it got pulled.

[JDR13]

I found the single player campaign in Halo 1 to be quite fun, I haven't played Halo 2 yet due to the Vista only deal, I'm still hoping they'll come out with a patch to let it run on XP.

No, they're not great games by PC standards, but I don't understand why everyone seems to feel the need to constantly put them down.

[txa1265]

No, they're not great games by PC standards, but I don't understand why everyone seems to feel the need to constantly put them down.
Well, they are acclaimed as:
- Amongst the greatest games of all times.
- Amongst the *very* top FPS of all times.

And I have yet to find anything in my playing Halo 1 on Mac & PC and Halo 2 on PC that would qualify them for either.

[JDR13]

Well, they are acclaimed as:
- Amongst the greatest games of all times.
- Amongst the *very* top FPS of all times.

Nonsense.

People like us know damn well that only console review sites or Microsoft ass kissers would say things that ignorant. Besides, I'm pretty sure those 2 statements are talking about console games only, not all platforms.

If not, then they need to lay off the drugs. Seriously though, I'd be willing to bet anything that Microsoft had a personal hand in those reviews, money talks.




And I have yet to find anything in my playing Halo 1 on Mac & PC and Halo 2 on PC that would qualify them for either.

I totally agree.

Just curious, why would you bother playing both the Mac and the PC versions?

[txa1265]

Just curious, why would you bother playing both the Mac and the PC versions?
Leapfrogging technology ... I had a better PC laptop, then got a better Mac laptop. I always try to support Mac gaming, so ...

... no good reason, actually, but you'd be amazed how many games I have for both Mac and PC.

[zakhal]

I found the single player campaign in Halo 1 to be quite fun, I haven't played Halo 2 yet due to the Vista only deal, I'm still hoping they'll come out with a patch to let it run on XP.

No, they're not great games by PC standards, but I don't understand why everyone seems to feel the need to constantly put them down.

It sucks because developers will make more of them and less of great games because theres much more profit in them. Its not a good thing that a game like Halo 3 sold more (record-sales) than any other game or movie in the history. It will mean less pc games, more console games and more of averige halo3 crap.
(EDIT: granted it might mean the opposite aka more money for the industry as whole including for better games)

Ive seen multiple comments allready on forums from people who are disappointed with the game. The 10/10 hype reviewers btw got lots of free stuff for the review (inc. deluxe edition naturally). Apperently the best way to make money in games industry is to create an averige shooter and then spend huge amounts of money on marketing and bribes.

I still remember when microsoft made really great games i.e the close combat series. Its so good that they are still making new versions today of that series. As for halo...to quote my fav of mine:

TBH, I've always felt that Halo's presentation was bland, generic, and completely second-tier.

Not to mention that there's absolutely nothing cool about a fucking space marine.
A friend of mine who has never played any version of Halo asked what it brought to the table, other than graphics, that Doom didn't... and I really couldn't answer him except for the vehicles part, which isn't necessarily a plus.

The marine armor is copied from paintball (hobby of mine):
http://www.jtusa.com/catalog/visionsystems/7918/

In som fruityloop contest (perhaps due to record sales?) halo is currently ranked as the 5th best game ever, all platforms included. As an old time gamer I could find awards like that as offensive if it wasnt a standard nowadays to invent golden apples for mediocre games.

[zakhal]

Interesting video - Halo is the future of gaming:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gaming/halo-is-the-future-of-gaming-303156.php

[Thaurin]

Oh God. I wouldn't have thought that this forum would succumb to the mindless Halo bashing. Actually, I think I should have.

I'm playing Halo 2 on PC currently, and frankly, it entertains me more than Half-Life (1 or 2) did. You know, different opinions? I've never bashed a game that got hyped to death and I didn't like. What's the point? Oh yeah, that old "the industry is dying because of this!" crap.

What does Halo have to offer?

- Story-driven single-player campaign
- Good multi-player
- Dual weapon wielding
- Fairly deep backstory for the genre
- Fun (debatable) physics and vehicles
- Some good (debatable) sequences

I should give up on this forum already. Too much inaccuracy and blatant opinion shoving.

[woges]

I haven't really played any of the Halos, but I like some of the things that Halo 3 is offering, like the 4 player co-op. I hear that Halo 2 multi-player is good no?

There looks to be some very good shooters coming to PC such as Gears of War, UT3, Crysis. Shooters heaven atm.

edit: Oh, and Orange Box ofc.

[DArtagnan]

No reason to get worked up over other people having different opinions, or approaches to their gaming critique.

It's never pleasant if you don't agree, because it does indeed seem like mindless bashing. But really, do you honestly think people are down on Halo 3 because it makes them feel good to put what other people like down? Truthfully, how many people are really like that.

Most of it has to do with a perception that what some of us enjoy is becoming increasingly rare, and what most of the world enjoys is becoming increasingly common.

It's only natural to react against being a minority and getting treated like you don't exist, and I see no need for you to leave the forum because of that. But, to each his own, naturally.

[Thaurin]

I wish it were simply difference of opinion. Instead, everything that gets hype has to get hyped down immediately. On top of that, it's all too common to see things claimed that just aren't factual, only to prove the point. I'm not getting worked up much; it's just... so unnecessary. Reading these opinions does me no good, because there are no valid reasons to support them other than that it annoyed the person that he had to see Halo PR again on his way home from the bowling alley. (Incidentally, if the numbers on Bungie's site are accurate, there have been almost 1.5 million unique Halo 3 players online in the last 24 hours. This necessarily makes it newsworthy.)

I mean, there's a difference in stating your opinion and the fine art of flamebaiting. In this case, it's probably unintentional, but the passion with which it is presented is strikingly similar.

There's no need to get into the whole question of how many people that enjoy putting other people down, but I think there are a lot, though. ;) I'm not saying that's necessarily what's going down here. I think it's more annoyance over the fact that Halo is so popular, and it's sprouting all those doomsayers predicting the end of this or that and a future of bland, mediocre releases.

Yeah. It's fun to read them for a while, but then it all becomes exactly the same. So I think there must be something in human nature that's causing it.

Most of it has to do with a perception that what some of us enjoy is becoming increasingly rare, and what most of the world enjoys is becoming increasingly common.

Well yeah. Video games are sexy now. Not for the unwashed nerd in his basement any more while the jocks are out banging their girlfriends. There's either big-budget or small-budget now, nothing in between. That's the reason everything has to be either niche or mainstream these days. It's said, but it doesn't make the mainstream low quality necessarily. After all, the mainstream is a pretty big place.

Jeez, look at me. I'm probably as far as from mainstream as I can be and I'm defending it. I must be losing my youth. ;)

[zakhal]

I haven't really played any of the Halos, but I like some of the things that Halo 3 is offering, like the 4 player co-op. I hear that Halo 2 multi-player is good no?

There looks to be some very good shooters coming to PC such as Gears of War, UT3, Crysis. Shooters heaven atm.

edit: Oh, and Orange Box ofc.

System shock 2 had 4-player co-op too but i think it more like ruined the immersion atleast for me. It was more enjoyable as singleplayer.

Team fortress 2 orange box is really great btw. Played it all night yesterday.

Most of it has to do with a perception that what some of us enjoy is becoming increasingly rare, and what most of the world enjoys is becoming increasingly common.

Its like reading books for instance. I doubt anyone minds if general public likes reading donald duck-books. But som might find it amusing and make a few jokes about it if people would award it to be the greatest literature ever written.

People should not take halo-"bashing" seriously. Its all just fun and games.

[Asbjoern]

I mean, there's a difference in stating your opinion and the fine art of flamebaiting. In this case, it's probably unintentional, but the passion with which it is presented is strikingly similar.

What specifically is offending you in this thread, other than people having a different opinion than you?

[DArtagnan]

I think it's more annoyance over the fact that Halo is so popular, and it's sprouting all those doomsayers predicting the end of this or that and a future of bland, mediocre releases.

I don't doubt you're annoyed, and it's obvious that you think people are not being reasonable. But that really makes no difference now does it, because you've offered nothing to show why people are wrong. You're simply bitching because you don't like "mindless bashing". If you want to change anything, the best you can hope for is to do it through convincing arguments.

If you don't feel like arguing your case that Halo 3 doesn't deserve this reaction, then why don't you simply ignore the thread? That would seem to be simpler.

Jeez, look at me. I'm probably as far as from mainstream as I can be and I'm defending it. I must be losing my youth.

You may have been attempting to defend it, but in my mind you failed miserably. You point out that games are "sexy", and that they have to be big budget. That's exactly true of the mainstream, and that's exactly why the games ARE of lesser quality (to those of us bitching). There is no way around it. Appealing to the masses is pretty nearly always tantamount to not appealing to the minority. So there, you already know why people are bitching. Maybe it's time to accept it, or ignore it.

[Thaurin]

Its like reading books for instance. I doubt anyone minds if general public likes reading donald duck-books. But som might find it amusing and make a few jokes about it if people would award it to be the greatest literature ever written.

Well, that depends on the goal, doesn't it? Somewhere, someone decided that literature needed to "art" to be classified as such (with art being hard to classify itself). But if you just want to have some fun, Donald Duck might be able to provide it. ;) Same with Halo, I guess. I mean, hordes of people think the game was more fun than stuffing your nose with chopsticks. That's why it broke records. It must be. It can't be that the game was just horrible on all fronts. It certainly put FPS on the console map.

In the end, Halo 2, for me, is a fun little shooter that is enriched very well by the story and broken up nicely with some great sequences such as land vehicles, flying vehicles and one neat little moment where you had to jump on one of those walking Scarab tanks from a bridge and eliminate all aliens on it controlling the thing. Strong gaming moment for me. So naturally it does something right. It's just not right seeing people saying that it does nothing new since Doom, which, by the way, featured a space marine too.

Space marines ftw. ;)

[Thaurin]

What specifically is offending you in this thread, other than people having a different opinion than you?

Nothing. I don't find it offensive any more than I find flamebaiting offensive. It's just that it's not simple opinion that's being stated, they have to bash other people's opinion as well (the "I don't understand what's so great about X" phenomenon) like it's so hard to understand that there are actually people that do think it's the best thing since the electric toothbrush. Then they throw something more on top of it by going on about how this or that is so much better and pinning some untruths and insults on the object of their hatred. *shrugs* That doesn't make for inspired reading for me and does resemble tactics used in flamebait.

[Thaurin]

If you don't feel like arguing your case that Halo 3 doesn't deserve this reaction, then why don't you simply ignore the thread? That would seem to be simpler.

Oh, probably because I do enjoy arguing this on a forum and reading through all the Halo 3 bashing, strangely. ;) I go looking for the trolls whenever I want information about a product, like a game or a movie, as well as the positive reviews. Weird, huh. IMDB has a lot of trolls, by the way. ;)

Appealing to the masses is pretty nearly always tantamount to not appealing to the minority. So there, you already know why people are bitching. Maybe it's time to accept it, or ignore it.

It's much easier to accept this way, thanks. :) But I hope my points are still noted. Hate it for the right reasons, not with feigned confusion over a product's success or arguable points.

[Asbjoern]

The Halo franchise hasn't done anything new or just slightly different for the FPS genre. The only thing it did was to introduce the FPS genre to the Xbox console. Where did Halo exactly innovate?

Great games aren't purely fun games. You need to be able to interpret something, if the game has to be great. Halo is mostly just about shooting and not story that lets you interpret.
And that is mostly why you've missed out on Half-Life 2. Half-life 2 is a game you need to interpret if you wish to enjoy it. The same goes for great movies, great music and great literature.

EDIT: Let us see if we can have a good discussion, so please understand my post above in a friendly manner. :)

[DArtagnan]

In the end, Halo 2, for me, is a fun little shooter that is enriched very well by the story and broken up nicely with some great sequences such as land vehicles, flying vehicles and one neat little moment where you had to jump on one of those walking Scarab tanks from a bridge and eliminate all aliens on it controlling the thing. Strong gaming moment for me. So naturally it does something right. It's just not right seeing people saying that it does nothing new since Doom, which, by the way, featured a space marine too.

To be quite honest, I think you're missing the point entirely.

I doubt anyone here really thinks Halo (1-3) is a piece of crap objectively.

The problem with Halo 3, is the level of hype.

Let me state this again, just because it's so vital to my point:

The level of hype.

Why is that a problem?

Because a "decent" game is getting reviews that equate it to the second coming of christ. That's a very big problem, because it creates a perception in the public that they must possess this game. That's why it sells so incredibly well.

The problem with selling so well, is that it generates a beacon for every single developer motivated by money to follow. That will automatically reduce innovation and quality for years to come.

It's not the end of the world, but neither is it paranoia. It's a trend that has been developing for many years, and it gets steadily worse. Halo 3 won't change the market or future games by itself, perhaps, but it's another significant step in the wrong direction.

However, this is of course only true for those of us who want depth and complexity. For the masses, it's probably a great development. I can't deny that more people will be mildly pleased in the future, and only a handful (by comparison) will be significantly less pleased.

But I ask you:

Is it better to entertain a million people, if you can reach out and literally change the life of a few thousand (as has arguably been the case with games like Torment)?

It's much easier to accept this way, thanks. But I hope my points are still noted. Hate it for the right reasons, not with feigned confusion over a product's success or arguable points.

It's your flawed perception that I or people here literally hate Halo. I'd have to be a complete idiot to hate a game. When I played Halo, I found it reasonably well done, and I enjoyed multiplayer quite a bit.

The only thing I hate is a lie and the hype surrounding the Halo franchise is a lie.

[Asbjoern]

Well put, DArtagnan. Yes, the problem is that the Halo games are decent games that is treated like they are the best games ever made.
We can agree that they are fun (even though I don't consider them particularly fun), but they aren't intellectual in any way.

[Thaurin]

Is it better to entertain a million people, if you can reach out and literally change the life of a few thousand (as has arguably been the case with games like Torment)?

But the same has happened with the Halo franchise. Literally millions of people are enthralled with the whole thing and have had it make a significant impact on their lives, in one way or another. Now, I'm not a Halo fan at all-- I'm just checking out the series because I want to know. But we can like both, can't we? Games with a little depth and innovation (which I have never understood: why do we always need to be innovative?) and more shallow games should be able to live side by side. Halo does what it does admirably, and it's a popular genre as it turned out. That's why it's getting those reviews.

As for innovation, Halo 3 does innovate, primarily in the multi-player department and on the console market. Recording every match and level-editing has of course been around on the PC forever, but in this incarnation and on the Xbox 360, and coupled with the online sharing and community-building functionality of Bungie's servers and Xbox Live... it's Halo multi-player heaven to those than are really into that.

It's your flawed perception that I or people here literally hate Halo. I'd have to be a complete idiot to hate a game. When I played Halo, I found it reasonably well done, and I enjoyed multiplayer quite a bit.

The only thing I hate is a lie and the hype surrounding the Halo franchise is a lie.

Okay, so maybe it's just the hatred for the hype machine that spills over to the actual game a bit sometimes. But you'll have to ask the other posters if they actually hate the game; it's just a stupid game of course, but I've seen people going on and insulting Master Chief himself because they got so sick of the whole series. Hello? Made-up character? :)

Or maybe I've just been around the xbox.com forums too long when I was bored.

[DArtagnan]

But the same has happened with the Halo franchise. Literally millions of people are enthralled with the whole thing and have had it make a significant impact on their lives, in one way or another. Now, I'm not a Halo fan at all-- I'm just checking out the series because I want to know. But we can like both, can't we? Games with a little depth and innovation (which I have never understood: why do we always need to be innovative?) and more shallow games should be able to live side by side. Halo does what it does admirably, and it's a popular genre as it turned out. That's why it's getting those reviews.

Of course there's nothing I can say to disprove your claim that Halo has had similarly powerful effects on people, and indeed maybe it has. But for the moment I refuse to believe that, because my mind won't comprehend how that can be.

However, there are most likely people out there believing their life was literally changed when they saw The Rock or Transformers, so maybe I'm just not being fair here.

As for innovation, Halo 3 does innovate, primarily in the multi-player department and on the console market. Recording every match and level-editing has of course been around on the PC forever, but in this incarnation and on the Xbox 360, and coupled with the online sharing and community-building functionality of Bungie's servers and Xbox Live... it's Halo multi-player heaven to those than are really into that.

I personally don't crave innovation. Innovation for the sake of innovation is mostly worthless, but even when it's not just for its own sake it doesn't necessarily constitute a major quality. Some people obviously disagree.

There's no doubt that Halo 3 has a powerful multiplayer component, and it deserves praise for that, but there's no way that in itself makes the experience the best ever - as many would have us believe.

Okay, so maybe it's just the hatred for the hype machine that spills over to the actual game a bit sometimes. But you'll have to ask the other posters if they actually hate the game; it's just a stupid game of course, but I've seen people going on and insulting Master Chief himself because they got so sick of the whole series. Hello? Made-up character?

Or maybe I've just been around the xbox.com forums too long when I was bored.

I tend to avoid assuming stuff about people, because I find such a thing unfair. I don't always succeed, of course, but I generally do pretty well.

So, until I read someone specifically state they hate Halo 3 on this forum, I will not assume people complaining are actually hating.

[Asbjoern]

I only asked what innovation the Halo games had contributed with, because you wrote this, Thaurin:

It's just not right seeing people saying that it does nothing new since Doom, which, by the way, featured a space marine too.

Did I misunderstand what you wrote?

[xSamhainx]

I disagree that video games are now sexy, far from it. I wish it was, I'd be beating the women off with a stick if that was the case.

I even have to kinda downplay my gaming fetish to my gf, who plays D&D, and is into fantasy type movies and art and what have you. A little D&D now and then is one thing, sitting in front of a pc playing bleep bleep bloop for hours on end is another. My mother, people at work, people I meet, whatever, this is like I'm in the closet about it or something except everyone that I know are fellow gamers. Mention it and see where it gets you. Video games as far as I can see are still looked upon by society at large as being for children, immature, and social rejects. Sorry, that's not sexy. It's just the way it is. There's no doubt that WoW and such has brought a lot of non-typical crowd into the gaming fold and opened some eyes out there, but at the end of the day, there's a lot of negative stigma still attached to gaming.

Look at the South Park episode about WoW, that's the general perception, "How can you kill something which has no life?". Gaming is about as sexy as chris farley!

[zakhal]

What should people then be doing instead if not playing games? Should they watch TV? Or collect stamps? Or buy a tortoise and watch it crawl around the room? Go to friends houses and talk with them? Have lots of babies?

I found it funny that people feel that they need to do "somthing else". I do what I want on my freetime as long as its not boring. And there are lots of stuff that is more undead than gaming i.e watching tv or reading.

Personally I need to go out regulary or else the gaming becomes too dull. Allthough after "refreshment" Im always content again on playing long hours even if time permits.

[xSamhainx]

Sitting on the sofa watching television all night = ok
Sitting on the sofa playing games all night = get a life!

This is prejudice, plain and simple ='.'=

[JDR13]

Sorry to go a little off topic for a second here, but does anyone know a way to play Halo 2 without having Windows Vista?

[Thaurin]

I only asked what innovation the Halo games had contributed with, because you wrote this, Thaurin:

"It's just not right seeing people saying that it does nothing new since Doom, which, by the way, featured a space marine too."

Did I misunderstand what you wrote?

Are you actually saying that Halo has nothing new over Doom? Halo may not have brought a whole lot new to the table of the entire FPS genre over all platforms (seeing as though consoles were the late-comers in the first place), but gameplay that works on console might be one. But compared to doom? Halo is more like Half-Life than Doom.

[txa1265]

Sorry to go a little off topic for a second here, but does anyone know a way to play Halo 2 without having Windows Vista?

I know that there are 'ways' to do it, but so far as I know they are all 'unsupported' cracks and will not allow you to play multiplayer. I had to borrow a Vista laptop since I'm on XP still.

[Thaurin]

And there are lots of stuff that is more undead than gaming i.e watching tv or reading.

Oh man, reading is not undead. :)

Sorry to go a little off topic for a second here, but does anyone know a way to play Halo 2 without having Windows Vista?

Yes, what he said. There are ways, but they are available on the torrent sites as cracked versions. You decide what to do with that information. Personally I despise Microsoft's decision to unnecessarily release it only for Vista to artificially try to move gamers to their new crap OS, so screw them I say.

[JDR13]

I'm not interested in warez, I want to play a legit copy. I also don't care about the multiplayer.

I think it's only a matter of time....

[Thaurin]

Buy a copy and do the same things that the cracked version does, which, I think, is install some Xbox Live stuff that Vista ships with by default. I call it fair use. I don't think Microsoft is ever going to release an XP patch.

Or do you expect DirextX 10 making an appearance on XP, too? Not before Microsoft really, really has to...

[txa1265]

I'm not interested in warez, I want to play a legit copy. I also don't care about the multiplayer.

I think it's only a matter of time....

That is why I did it the way I did. Someone was supposedly going to sell a XP-functional copy, but I don't know what ever happened to that ...

[woges]

Falling leafs Alky no?

http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/

[JDR13]

Falling leafs Alky no?

http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/

Those guys have been talking about it for a while, but haven't been able to back up their words so far.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

To be quite honest, I think you're missing the point entirely.

I doubt anyone here really thinks Halo (1-3) is a piece of crap objectively.

The problem with Halo 3, is the level of hype.

Let me state this again, just because it's so vital to my point:

The level of hype.

Reminds me of WOW. What a hype !


Sitting on the sofa watching television all night = ok
Sitting on the sofa playing games all night = get a life!


And what's about ...
... sitting on the dock of the bay ?

[Thaurin]

And what's about ...
... sitting on the dock of the bay ?

That's just... weird. Get a life! ;)

By the way, I just bought Halo 3, so I guess I'll see if it's really as good as the hype says, or isn't. ;) It's still the number one online first-person shooter on 360, so I figured it's a must-have. Some of those multi-player features are pretty sweet, but I'm not even a huge FPS fan. ;)

As for PC competition, I saw Enemy Territory: Quake Wars at the store, too. I have a feeling that game will trump Halo 3... :) I don't care, sitting in front of a TV is a different experience. Somehow I've never been able to get into the FPS online thing on PC. Maybe I won't on Xbox 360 either, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a lot easier as a casual player.

[woges]

Dunno about that some of the kids are shit hot at fps with a controller, well, some I know are anyway.

[txa1265]

By the way, I just bought Halo 3, so I guess I'll see if it's really as good as the hype says, or isn't. ;)
Latest internet flare-up ... HALO 3 NOT REALLY HD - ONLY 640p!!! ZOMG (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/09/28/halo-3-not-hd-runs-at-640p-pixel-counters-claim/)
As for PC competition, I saw Enemy Territory: Quake Wars at the store, too. I have a feeling that game will trump Halo 3... :)
It is out here next week ... I've got my (review) copy and am enjoying it - it is gorgeous and the gameplay is really tight so far.

[JDR13]

It is out here next week ... I've got my (review) copy and am enjoying it - it is gorgeous and the gameplay is really tight so far.

I hope it plays better than the demo, I didn't think it was bad, I just wasn't blown away by it.

[txa1265]

I hope it plays better than the demo, I didn't think it was bad, I just wasn't blown away by it.

I have been completely unable to play demos due to the heavy load of full games on my docket ... which is too bad in some ways, since I can't tell you how it compares (which is also true of Two Worlds and many others)

[Thaurin]

I haven't touched Halo 3 much yet, but I really like the Theatre. I can't recall it being so easy to record your games and share it with other people. I know you could record your games as long ago as Doom, but this variation is just sweet. It auto-records everything, and you can move the camera around the map at will as the action goes on. I'm sure that you've read about it if you even skimped through one review, though.

[zakhal]

I hope it plays better than the demo, I didn't think it was bad, I just wasn't blown away by it.

Imho the demo was nothing very special. Bland generic (confusing) scifi shooter. I like the idea of big maps and vehicles (i play ww2ol,operation flashpoint, battlefield) but the presentation in this is just too bland. I wasnt sure if the thing i was holding was somkind of weapon or a vacuum-cleaner. Perhaps I just need more time to get a feel for the game.

Team fortress 2 even though it doesnt offer vehicles and big maps is still way more addictive.

[Lucky Day]

Rumours of Bungie leaving Microsoft. Halo to stay with MS.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/halo-developer-to-leave-microsoft-report/2007/10/02/1191091078010.html

take it for what its worth. its not the only site going with this. take that for what its worth too :o

[Thaurin]

That sounds completely like someone made that up to start a riot among Halo fanboys!

[Thaurin]

Okay, I'm a little ways into the single-player campaign now and have played some multi-player. This is my opinion so far.

I think this is actually really a very nice shooter. I feel that mostly it deserves high ratings. Games getting 10/10 and stuff will always be controversial, but I can easily see this competing with PC giants of the genre.

I mean... interesting world with some depth, check. Nice graphics, check. Solid gameplay, check. Good story, check. Decent balance, check. Good pacing and story progression, check. Good musical score, check. Great voice acting, check. Amazing multi-player, check. Lots kick-ass brutal action scenes with huge enemies, double check. The scarab tanks are fantastic in this iteration of Halo.

Sure it has its flaws, but having seen the good parts so far, I think the people calling it only a so-so average shooter are the same sort of people who had this reaction to Bioshock as anti-hype reflex... or, maybe people are just having different opinions.

[zakhal]

Funny review from Zero-Punctuation:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/2304-Zero-Punctuation-Halo-3

[Thaurin]

Funny. :D

What I disagree with is the ever-returning argument that everything in Halo 3 has been done before, and better. It may have been done before, but not necessarily better, in my opinion. I don't see it as a bad thing, taking the best from other games and incorporating it in a neat, polished package. Blizzard got big on it. In any case, it's been done competently in Halo 3.

What's true is the incredibly stupid vehicle AI of your fellow marines. They drive like doped up 12-year-olds! But it leads to some funny situations and it's fun.

I liked Bioshock, but everybody's saying how Bioshock was a lot better than Recent Title X... well, I don't know. So far I'm enjoying Halo 3 a bit more, I think, philosophical depth be damned. It's just a little more over the top and throws some much needed humour into the mix. But they can't really be compared, anyway. (And why should you have to?)

[JDR13]

Well said Thaurin, although I disagree on your comment about Blizzard. Many more developers have copied traits from Blizzard games than the other way around.

[Thaurin]

While that may be true, I've always thought that their RTS games were part existing ideas polished to perfection and smaller part innovation, and World of Warcraft is a great example of polished MMORPG gameplay that certainly existed in that form before but was done better and in a more enjoyable way than in other games. I'm not saying they never did anything new for those genres, but Blizzard's games have always made sense in a just-having-fun kind of way. They somehow took all those ideas and made them more fun. And I really admire Blizzard for it!

Where Blizzard truly innovated is in the gameplay and user interface departments, I think! Well, not exactly that, but made them so much smoother that it could be called that. Oh, forget it. :D

[JDR13]

I just got back from an Uncle's house where a young cousin of mine was playing Halo 3.

I must admit that I was very impressed by what I saw. I've seen a few games on Xbox 360 before, but nothing that compares to Halo 3. I didn't even know that the 360 was capable of rendering graphics like that, it was on par with anything currently available for pc right now. I know graphics aren't everything, but if that game plays even half as good as it looks, I might almost be tempted to plunk down $400 for a 360.

Of couse I'm sure it will be available for pc.........in 2-3 years. :(

[Thaurin]

I think Halo 3 looks good, but it's definitely not the best-looking 360 title. I think Gears of War could be considered for that, or Bioshock. There's a lot of people complaining about Halo 3's visuals, but I personally think they're just bitching. Halo 3's HDR lighting is pretty good, but it sacrifices anti-aliasing, which results in teh jaggies. Some people go totally apeshit about that sort of thing and immediately start comparing the game to the original Halo's graphics. :D

Furthermore, addressing some other points of criticism I have read, of course Halo's story isn't high art, but it's fun, for a game. It does have a cinematic and epic feel to it. It's been done professionally and never feels cheap in its presentation. That's all that I really need, really.

[JDR13]

Mmmm, I definitely don't think Bioshock would be considered for the best looking Xbox title. I played the pc version, which most people agree is a little sharper than the Xbox version. While the graphics are indeed excellent, I didn't think they were that good.

Of course the art direction could be influencing that opinion as well. While the graphics in Bioshock are top notch, I'm personally not a big fan of 1940's decor.

[Thaurin]

Well, that makes it a subjective matter, huh? ;) I don't think there's that much of a difference between the Xbox 360 and PC versions of Bioshock, judging from the screenshot comparisons I have seen. Of course, the PC version will support higher resolutions, which will start to matter if you have a huge TV screen.

Gears of War is excellent for the character models and animation. The in-game cut-scenes are particularly awesome. It's a lot darker and grittier and doesn't have the bright colours of Halo 3, but it suits the atmosphere. If you want to see nice Xbox 360 graphics in action, check that game out.

In general, I think we're just now starting to see what this "next-gen" is really capable of. When I saw Doom 3, it was nice and all, but I was a bit underwhelmed by it all. Recent games have great cinematic effects and camera tricks that make cut-scenes a lot of fun to watch.

[JDR13]

The problem I have with Bioshock is that while the overall graphics are very good, there seemed to be little variety between levels. By the end of the game I was tired of seeing the same colors over and over again. The city of Rapture didn't change much from beginning to end, and the same run down water soaked rooms started to get on my nerves.

I'm also not that impressed with the Unreal 3 graphic engine in general. While it runs very smoothly, I don't think it looks nearly as good as the Source 2(Half-Life 2) or F.E.A.R. engines did when they were first released. I'm not talking about a direct comparison between the engines, but rather how they compared to what was out there at the time.

[woges]

Well the E3 trailer that's on the UT3 web-site is pretty impressive by any games standards. Gears of War was the first game to use the UT3 engine? How does that look on the 360?

Addition: I don't think other games using Source (i.e. non Valve) look as good as Bioshock does either, and I'm guessing Epic's release will look even better. HL2 still looks decent today though and Source will be updated shortly with EP2 arriving shortly. I guess if you're after a lot of graphical variety Bioshock isn't going to give you that.

[Thaurin]

Yeah, I agree with you on Bioshock... that was a little disappointing. But the first time you swim out of that crashed airplane, that was great. The fire and its reflections on the water, the wet stones on that small island... overall, the first few hours of Bioshock were the best, which made it all feel a like a bit of an anti-climax.

As for the others, maybe that was because my PC at the time couldn't run them smoothly. They looked awesome, but it felt a bit like the older engines just with better lighting and more detail. No, that's not right, there were some really cool effects... let's just keep it at we're getting there. :)

[Thaurin]

Well the E3 trailer that's on the UT3 web-site is pretty impressive by any games standards. Gears of War was the first game to use the UT3 engine? How does that look on the 360?

Not sure if it was the first... but the style is very distinctive, which I think is also a consequence of the current generation of graphics engines. As possibilities and feature-set increase, designers are able to pull off more diverse stuff. I was starting to feel that every 3D game looked alike.

Gears of War is a lot of greys and browns, which does fit the setting. Some of the bigger monsters look awesome and like I said, the animation in this game is top-notch and the character models look like they have huge polygon counts (don't know if that's a trick), which really shows off in the cut-scenes. This is also the first game (but it's probably been done before) where I've seen shaders used for things like rain pouring down the trunk of trees, and that looks awesome, too.

[Thaurin]

That sounds completely like someone made that up to start a riot among Halo fanboys!

...but entirely true! (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=84829) ;)

[Moriendor]

I'm also not that impressed with the Unreal 3 graphic engine in general. While it runs very smoothly, I don't think it looks nearly as good as the Source 2(Half-Life 2) or F.E.A.R. engines did when they were first released.

I don't think that Bioshock is "real" Unreal 3 tech. As far as I know and remember from various interviews, they began to use the Unreal 3 editing tools at some point rather late in development, i.e. they ported their 2.5 engine-based project (they started from what experience they had with SWAT 4 which was an Unreal 2.5 game) to the Unreal 3 editor and framework but that should hardly be enough to qualify it as a genuine Unreal 3 game. I have to admit that I'm not familiar with the "killer features" of Unreal 3 technology that would have to be found in Bioshock if it were "real" Unreal 3 all the way but from all I've read it's basically 2.5 with only a few minor sprinkles of U3 features here and there.

[JDR13]

I'm not sure about a 2.5 engine, but all the previews\articles I've seen say Bioshock and Gears of War use the Unreal 3 engine.

Very rarely does a graphics engine look as good in an actual game as it does in the promotional trailers. Does anyone remember some of the trailers for Half-Life 2? As good as the game was , I was still a little disappointed that the models did not look exactly the way they did in some of the promotional material.

[JDR13]

HL2 still looks decent today though and Source will be updated shortly with EP2 arriving shortly.


So then the original Half-Life 2 and Episode 1 are going to get graphical updates as well?

[DArtagnan]

Bioshock was made based on a mish-mash of Unreal 2-3 tech. They started modifying the engine a good while before Unreal 3 tech was done, and they implemented it step by step as it became available.

[Lucky Day]

Back on topic

...but entirely true! (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=84829) ;)

I knew this was more than a rumour. We just had to wait it out.

So what does Bungie do now? Who does MS license out to make Halo?

How does a company just leave its biggest investor? The only way I know is for the employees to leave and start a new company.

Another rumour: is the movie going to be called Halo 4: Blah Blah Something Yada?

[Asbjoern]

Who does MS license out to make Halo?

Bungie.

Microsoft Game Studios president Shane Kim said that Microsoft would support Bungie's "desire to return to its independent roots," but made clear that the move didn't mean an end to the Halo franchise.

"We will continue to invest in our Halo entertainment property with Bungie and other partners, such as Peter Jackson," said Kim, "on a new interactive series set in the Halo universe. We look forward to great success with Bungie as our long-term relationship continues to evolve through Halo-related titles and new IP created by Bungie."


http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=15755

[woges]

So then the original Half-Life 2 and Episode 1 are going to get graphical updates as well?

Sorry, really need to look at this forum more. Well EP2 is out now and I don't have it just yet but I doubt HL2 and HL2:EP1 engines will be much affected - I don't think the level design work can be just upgraded. You probably could do this but the people at Valve probably don't want to look at one of those levels ever again I suspect.

Still haven't got around to playing halo 2 yet either.

[txa1265]

But the HDR updates and other engine updates *have* tricked down through the games as they have been released, which you would see happening when updates come through.