Some Icewind Dale love

[KazikluBey]

I bought the 'ultimate collection' of Icewind Dale (1, 2 and HoW) quite a few years ago yet I never really gave it an honest spin, despite knowing BG2 inside out. After trying to trudge my way through the NWN2 OC a second time (I finished MotB with a new character shortly before) but realizing I just wasn't masochistic enough to finish the OC I began to long for the Infinity Engine and remembered Icewind Dale.

I installed IWD 1 with HoW and Trials of the Luremaster and started making a party. After realizing that conjurers no longer have divination as a forbidden school I realized that maybe I should read up on things on Gamefaqs, so that I don't miss any other important things. All well and good except the guide said that:
I would advise against people installing the expansion pack before completing the main game however, as there are some good items that they will be unable to obtain, and the gaming experience is different.
Does he have a point or should I just play? And why on earth would I lose out on items?

Any tips on how to maximize my enjoyment of IWD 1 (and 2, which will come later)?

[Squeek]

I recently replayed IWD with HOW and the Trials free download and had a great time with it. The only thing I added was the Gibberlings 3 tweak pack (version 7).

Their link (http://www.gibberlings3.net/) isn't working for some reason.

[enodenroH]

Does he have a point or should I just play? And why on earth would I lose out on items?

Any tips on how to maximize my enjoyment of IWD 1 (and 2, which will come later)?

Just play the game and enjoy it for what it is...
If you start anxiety attacks for trivial things like not finding the +1000 dagger of wounding (i know it doesn't exist btw) you won't have fun.

I played the game without any walkthrough, wich I seldom do, and completed it very easily.
Same thing with HOW. I ANNIHILATED the end boss because the game gives you all these ultra powerfull weapons near the end of the expansion.

Stop worrying about not finding this or that.
There are plenty of weapons and armors all over the place.

I played this one around 2 years ago and enjoyed it very much.
I hope you do too!

IWD 2 is even better!!! Graphic wise and story also.
Didn't complete it. I was halfway through when a bug destroyed my game.

I also bought the ultimate collection and don't know what the hell I missed...
I had fun. End of story!!!

[magerette]

I don't know what weapons they're talking about--I got a few extra cool weapons in the shops because I bought the Collector's Edition *with bonus content* CD :rolleyes: but it was like only one or two--I played the series in order, i.e., I was finished with IWD before the Xpak HoW came out, but I can't imagine lacking any particular weapons because you load them up together. You may get a little different item line up or something. I wouldn't expect it to be a major deal.

Have fun--IWD's one of the best dungeon crawls out there. Having decent charisma and dialogue skills will help you get the most dialogue choices, as well as decent intelligencein some situations. You might check the manual here on which attribute governs which type of saving throw, but several are important to have high: IIRC, Wisdom for saves vs fear( lots of spirits and some are deadly) I think, and will saves need to be high for those nasty Confusion/Dominate /Hold Person spells, which the AI loves to cast. I highly recommend you get some druid and/or bard action going--the bard has a song that casts out fear, very useful, along with ultra high charisma for dialogue purposes, and the druid has very flashy spells, like Creeping Doom (my favorite) and SunRay and can do a little melee and summoning as well as shapechange. Both are fun characters to play. In general, what worked in the other IE games will work here. Enjoy. :)

[Gallifrey]

The only reason I can see it'd be suggested to not have the expansions installed is that the end sequence varies with the expansion and without. There's a sword that you can get for the end fight if you don't have the expansion installed, but I believe you end up getting it eventually anyways. I may be a bit off there, it's been a long time since I played the game.
In any case, I'd recommend having both expansions installed from the start and play through the whole story in one go, it's very good.
IWD/HOW/TotL is probably the best dungeon crawling D&D game ever done.

[Zakhary]

I'd recommend having both expansions installed from the start and play through the whole story in one go, it's very good.
IWD/HOW/TotL is probably the best dungeon crawling D&D game ever done.

Agreed. Listen to him.

[Dark Savant]

Any tips on how to maximize my enjoyment of IWD 1 (and 2, which will come later)?
You can install some components from Icewind Dale Tweak Pack. Especially numerous fixes. Cosmetic, rule and content changes are optional. Great mod imho.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/daletweak/index.php

I don't know what weapons they're talking about--I got a few extra cool weapons in the shops because I bought the Collector's Edition *with bonus content* CD
You mean Collector`s Edition of IWD2. I don`t recall IWD1 getting any extra bonus content.

[KazikluBey]

Thanks for your input. I had forgotten about the G3 tweak packs, I'll install the bugfixes at least.

[Zaleukos]

Does he have a point or should I just play? And why on earth would I lose out on items?

Any tips on how to maximize my enjoyment of IWD 1 (and 2, which will come later)?

All I know is that IWD1 bards suck without the expansion. If you want to have a bard in your party the expansion is a must.

If you are patient you might want to play at the second highest difficulty level in IWD1 (heart of fury mode or whatever it is called is too tough for my taste), it gives substantial extra XP but there are more monsters and monsters hit twice as hard. It makes the game a lot more tactical. Most monsters arent weapon resistant so you get good mileage out of archers (an elven fighter/thief is a good idea since pure thieves are a waste). I would actually suggest going for the expansion area before finishing the main campaign. My gf and I didnt and found HoW a bit easy towards the end. There are two ways to go about the expansion. Either complete the main game and import the characters, or talk to a barbarian shaman in Kuldahar to interrupt the MQ for the expansion. The downloadable "trials of the luremaster" is started by talking to a halfling in the expansion village of Lonelywood. You can start the luremaster (a straightforward but toughish dungeon crawl) up until the point where the shaman offers to take you across the "sea of burning ice" or whatever the local arctic body of water is called...

Icewind Dale II plays a bit differently due to the 3rd edition rules, and has a lot more skill checks (there are quests that only high int characters can solve, quests that only dwarves/elves can do, etc, but these are mainly side quests and dont add up to more than half a level or so). I suspect Magerette is remembering IWD2 as the first game to the best of my knowledge completely lacks skill checks of that kind.

In all I found IWD2 easier and somewhat unfinished and buggy. For some reason charmed party members only stood around and never attacked me, and there are some areas (goblin caves?) that are very laggy. Due to the ease of the game I'd say any tactic or party composition will do in normal mode. The only useless char we had was a monk who couldnt hit worth a damn. Minor things to keep in mind is that there is a holy avenger longsword for paladins, and that goody goody paladins and monks might refuse rewards, so use some other character with high cha and persuasion (sorcerer;)) to fetch rewards.

As with all infinity engine games I suggest ease of use mods for both, even if its just for infinite stacking. It's unfun and slow to walk back for arrows and to sell silver rings...

One more thing. At least IWD1 has a seriours lack of some scrolls (I think I only found two fireball scrolls in the whole game) which is understandable but annoying...

[Gallifrey]

All I know is that IWD1 bards suck without the expansion. If you want to have a bard in your party the expansion is a must.

Absolutely. With the expansion and the expanded range of Bard songs, the class goes from mediocre to great asset. I found the Bard in my party to be incredibly useful.

I would actually suggest going for the expansion area before finishing the main campaign. My gf and I didnt and found HoW a bit easy towards the end. There are two ways to go about the expansion. Either complete the main game and import the characters, or talk to a barbarian shaman in Kuldahar to interrupt the MQ for the expansion. The downloadable "trials of the luremaster" is started by talking to a halfling in the expansion village of Lonelywood. You can start the luremaster (a straightforward but toughish dungeon crawl) up until the point where the shaman offers to take you across the "sea of burning ice" or whatever the local arctic body of water is called...

Agreed. It's better to play through in one fluid run than doing the import thing after finishing the main game. It does indeed make the final IWD fight a bit easier, particularly in comparison to the challenges of HoW, but for the sake of immersion it makes more sense.
The only tricky part is remembering when to speak with whom where to hit the expansion content before finishing the main quest. It sort of breaks your immersion in the story, but I find that importing a party for an expansion is just silly.

Icewind Dale II plays a bit differently due to the 3rd edition rules, and has a lot more skill checks (there are quests that only high int characters can solve, quests that only dwarves/elves can do, etc, but these are mainly side quests and dont add up to more than half a level or so). I suspect Magerette is remembering IWD2 as the first game to the best of my knowledge completely lacks skill checks of that kind.

IWD2 is more involved in terms of game mechanics, but I found it seriously lacked the grand scope of IWD. IWD2 tells it's story more clearly, but IWD has a far, far better story but you have to really pay attention to things to get the most out of it. Since IWD is a dungeon crawl and light on the NPCs, the story isn't really spelled out for you in dialogue exposition, but rather you do have to discover it rather like a real dungeon-delver explorer might have to do. I've read so many times that IWD didn't have a story, but it really does, and it's a good one. IWD2 by comparison is more RPG-ish but the story isn't great. The gameplay is a lot better though, given the dramatic engine overhaul and 3rd Edition rules.

I had not seen those G3 IWD mods before.... And it's been a long time since I played the games.... Hmmm..

[magerette]

Thanks for helping me out with the memory loss problems, Zaluekos and Dark Savant :) It's been however many years since the game came out that I've played( 6 or 7?) so it's quite possible I'm lumping things together with IWD2 which I've played(though not completed) more recently. ;)
I was mainly thinking of the wailing virgins(HoW)for the fear saves(hopelessness) and most of my other advice probably comes from HoW or more recently played D&D games. I also should probably have mentioned that having a priest or a paladin is very helpful since many of the enemies will be undead in one flavor or another. I know I remember depending heavily on my cleric for turning undead in The Severed Hand and also for protection spells against Confusion and the like when facing spellcasters.

[KazikluBey]

I went with paladin, fighter dualed to druid, fighter/thief multiclass, fighter dualed to cleric, fighter dualed to mage and a bard. I'm at Kuldahar, and I must say I'm loving it.

I've missed the auto-pause, the fixed camera, the ease with which one can select enemies in combat, the ease with which one can select and tell one's characters what to do... In combat in vanilla NWN2 and even in 1.10/MotB it usually felt like I spent more time fighting the game than the enemy.

[Gallifrey]

That's a good party for the game. You've probably noticed by now the amount of carnage you can cause with your Druid, Mage and Bard working together.

I don't so much miss the fixed camera of the IE games, but you're right on all the other counts. For controlling an entire party, the Infinity Engine really is excellent, but it's not great for ease of micro-management. The IWD2 version was much improved in that regard.

What I miss most of all from those games are the gorgeous settings. The pre-rendered backgrounds invoke more atmosphere and sense of place than anything I've seen yet.

[Squeek]

Paladins level pretty quickly and eventually become very powerful in Icewind Dale. In fact, a well decked-out paladin can go solo through the game in Heart of Fury mode (that would mean importing one into a new game).

There's a lot that's undocumented about IWD, and some of what is documented isn't quite right. That's one of the things that makes it fun to play online. Experience counts.

[Zakhary]

I really started missing the feeling and atmosphere and all the places and characters in Icewind Dale / Heart of Winter / Trials. My hands started groping the Icewind Dale "3 in 1 boxset" I have on my shelf. IWD2 was a fun game too but nothing compared to the first one. And I did not know about that unofficial fix pack thingie...

Damn you for starting this thread! Damn you! :D

Btw I found something great from the net:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/icewinddale/wallpaper.php#null

All the original official Icewind Dale 1 wallpapers created by black isle in various resolutions! Guess what my desktop looks like?

[Gallifrey]

Those wallpapers bring back memories!

/glances over at the IWD discs on the shelf

I wish there was a completed mod to play IWD/HOW/TotL on the IWD2 engine.

[magerette]

Yes indeed, Zakhary. I had the tree one up for years and when I changed machines lost it. Thanks for letting me add it back into my wallpaper collection. :)
I often think about replaying IWD/HoW--and now that I realize how much I've actually forgotten it sounds even better. I'm having a lot of trouble getting into Mask of the Betrayer(camera--ugh)--maybe a little replay of this game would help.

[Zakhary]

Perhaps we should play IWD1 online?
Just for an hour or two on weekends or something....
Could be fun. If we could gather say... 3 or 4 players total.

[txa1265]

I really need to reinstall ... never got much into the expansion or very far into #2 ...

[Zakhary]

On a second thought, might not be a good idea due to different timezones.

[mute]

I've missed the auto-pause, the fixed camera, the ease with which one can select enemies in combat, the ease with which one can select and tell one's characters what to do... In combat in vanilla NWN2 and even in 1.10/MotB it usually felt like I spent more time fighting the game than the enemy.

This is the reason why i started to play IWD again. I got frustrating with the cameras and sterile environments in NWN2, and porly gameplay moment. Not a bad game, just frustrating wrestling with the mouse ...

Strange thing, I never liked IWD, but after buying the Ultimate AD&D box this summer and playing IWD again at work its fun. Not that i have to think alot. Mostly smash and bash... :) But i decided i should try to finish it altogether now.

I am in chapter 4 and doing progress. However. I hate my party. I would want my POR party instead...

[KazikluBey]

Damn you for starting this thread! Damn you! :D
You're welcome.
I often think about replaying IWD/HoW--and now that I realize how much I've actually forgotten it sounds even better. I'm having a lot of trouble getting into Mask of the Betrayer(camera--ugh)--maybe a little replay of this game would help.
It might get worse if you get used to the smoothness of IWD...

Strange thing, I never liked IWD, but after buying the Ultimate AD&D box this summer and playing IWD again at work its fun. Not that i have to think alot. Mostly smash and bash... :) But i decided i should try to finish it altogether now.
I noticed early on that the game was too easy so I set the difficulty to impossible, unticked the "max HP at level up" and more than halved my characters' base HP in Dalekeeper. My characters die in a couple of hits so I need to make use of crowd control, area of effect spells, summons, heals, buffs and the almighty reload to make it through the tough fights. It's slow but also immensely enjoyable - it feels like I'm making the most of my playthrough.

[Zakhary]

I noticed early on that the game was too easy so I set the difficulty to impossible, unticked the "max HP at level up" and more than halved my characters' base HP in Dalekeeper. My characters die in a couple of hits so I need to make use of crowd control, area of effect spells, summons, heals, buffs and the almighty reload to make it through the tough fights. It's slow but also immensely enjoyable - it feels like I'm making the most of my playthrough.

Wow. Sounds like your having so much fun. I'm envious. Currently playing
NWN2 which is a good game in my opinion but has nothing against IWD1.

[Zakhary]

By the way.. are there any other unofficial patches/fixes/tweaking thingies for IWD other than that G3 thing (which seems excellent..) ?

[KazikluBey]

I had a look around at the various IE modding sites and found very little having to do with IWD I or II at all. There is a item/spell/store/script mod with one new quest called Auril's Bane (http://www.aurilsbane.com) for IWD but I'm not sure how well it plays with the tweak pack installed. Oh, and there is a Pseudo 3E Conversion Pack by the same guy. And a fixpack (http://forums.chosenofmystra.net/index.php?board=55.0).

[Arpyjee]

Yeah, that's a shame - the total lack of modding. There's a moderate amount of mods for BG 1&2, 30 truckloads of mods for NWN 1&2, but basically zero for IWD 1&2 ?

(I'd be looking more for the large / new story / new quests / Total Conversion type of mods)

[Zaleukos]

The infinity engine wasnt intended for modding in the first place, and the IWDs always had a much smaller fan base, so the mod distribution between those games is hardly surprising.

It's a pity the conversion of BG2 to 3rd ed (using the IWD2 engine) wasnt finished though. I really dont like the lack of character customization in the 2nd ed ruleset.

[Gallifrey]

The infinity engine wasnt intended for modding in the first place, and the IWDs always had a much smaller fan base, so the mod distribution between those games is hardly surprising.

Yep, spot-on correct, which is a shame really. The BG games were good (I liked the first far more than the second) but the IWD games were so much more interesting to me. Some large mods, like total conversions, new quests and such, would be great for either IWD1 or IWD2. IWD on the IWD2 engine would be fantastic.


It's a pity the conversion of BG2 to 3rd ed (using the IWD2 engine) wasnt finished though. I really dont like the lack of character customization in the 2nd ed ruleset.

Yeah, damn that Weimer guy for going back to school instead of completing that mod!
For the BG you can at least use Shadowkeeper (for BG2) or Gatekeeper (for BG1) to slightly expand your character options (for example you can use those to make, say, a Halfling Ranger). It's better than nothing, but yeah, the computerised version of AD&D really lacks the customisation of the 3E rules.

[Zakhary]

I wish they'd made a mod that would let me play IWD2 with the 2.5 rules :D

[Squeek]

I preferred the older rules too.

[Zakhary]

I preferred the older rules too.
I'm not alone! THis is a relief!
I'M NOT INSANE!
....

Seriously... How can you people NOT miss dual-classing?
This new system is inferior in every way.

[SALZHERZ]

OK, after your post and this points:

I've missed the auto-pause, the fixed camera, the ease with which one can select enemies in combat, the ease with which one can select and tell one's characters what to do... In combat in vanilla NWN2 and even in 1.10/MotB it usually felt like I spent more time fighting the game than the enemy.

i installed IWD2 again. And again i am happy. No cubersome interface problems, after i changed the hotkeys i can play smoothhhhhhh and really can enjoy the handpaint environments. This is a better game experience than NWN2 or other "younger" RPGs.

I hope in a few years someone will again discover the isometric view for an new rpg, based on a strong Ruleset like D&D or GURPS and with LOVE for this forgetten Genre.

I am not alone, and this makes me happy. (but think about it, only roundabout 1000 from millions of gamers ? sigh *)

[Gallifrey]

Seriously... How can you people NOT miss dual-classing?

Quite easily actually.


This new system is inferior in every way.

So you don't like being able to build your characters with individual specifications through feats, skills, multi-classing and freedom from racial class limitations?
You don't like having a system which makes skill checks for dialogue options? You like being bound to largely each character being essentially identical to another of the same class? You like having stats that have to be huge to get any real benefit rather than a more individualised stat spread still making a difference?

I grew up on AD&D and it was hard for me to let go for what seemed to be a more mainstream or simplified 3rd edition, but really, 3E does a lot right at very little expense to D&D as a whole.

[KazikluBey]

I rather like the Infinity Engine's 2E implementation, especially BG2's with its class kits. Sure, the 3E rules allow more customization (which I like) but there's also something about the restrictiveness about the 2E that I actually find appealing.

Yeah, damn that Weimer guy for going back to school instead of completing that mod!
I think The Broken Hourglass (http://planewalkergames.com/) is taking up a lot of his time.

i installed IWD2 again. And again i am happy
Glad to hear my little thread inspired some happiness in the world. ;) That said, I think you might like TBH (link above), whenever it's finished. It is heavily inspired by the Infinity Engine games. The future for those liking "old-school" RPGs seems to be in the hands of indie-developers as the big buck moved on long ago.

I'm in the Severed Hand now, btw.

[Lucky Day]

Man I loved this game.

When I first looked at BG I found it way too tedius. But when I ran IWD the game focus and art direction changed me. Of all the IE games IWD and IWD2 are my favourites.

Considering IWD came out on the same day Diablo II it was surprise success. The linear gameplay was supposed to be its downfall but as you all know, IWD is not Diablo. Its a shame that BG2, ToB, and NWN became more and more like Diablo.

The linearity of the game to me simply made it more focussed. The BG games could get you seriously distracted with all their branches. Morrowind/Oblivion are the worst examples of that.

Like most people I was disgusted with Heart of Winter - $30 for a 10 hour expansion - please!? Fortunately, Trials of the Luremaster sold them a few more copies of HoW.

Apparently the IE modders recently managed to get IWD to run in IWD2 and in BG2 so it can have an updated interface.

Also, Trials of the Luremaster was remade for NWN.

Obsidian managed to buy the rights for IWD from Interplay as they left but they've been sitting on it ever since giving out scant information.

[JDR13]

Lucky Day, how did BG2, ToB, and NWN become more like Diablo?

Also, why would IE modders bother to update the interface for IWD? As long as you had HOW installed you could run it at 800x600. Other than the resolution, there wasn't a huge difference in the UI between the games.

[Zaleukos]

I think you can play IWD1 at even higher unsupported resolutions, but my memory might be off. The only reason to update to IWD 2 is the ruleset.

And while I frequently used dual classing I find the system illogical and arbitrary in how abilities from the different classes "add up". It makes more sense to me to add a certain "amount" of abilities per level up to the existing whole, as per 3rd ed. The 3rd edition rules also offer a sensible price paid for multiclassing, while say a Fighter7/Cleric15 hasnt really sacrificed much clerical prowess and XP for fairly strong fighter abilities. And there are other changes I like too, such as how dexterity affects armour class differently if you are wearing plate compared to wearing leather (the latter armour is practically useless in 2nd ed, but in 3rd ed a dex based fighter with a leather fetisch actually make for a viable character).

And then there's the general issue of character customization. To me 2nd ed defines the characters by their equipment, and thats it (other differences between characters and even between some of the classes and kits are minor). Luckily BG is so strong in other departments that it succeeds in spite of this ruleset.

[Zakhary]

Man I loved this game.
................
Like most people I was disgusted with Heart of Winter - $30 for a 10 hour expansion - please!? Fortunately, Trials of the Luremaster sold them a few more copies of HoW.

Obsidian managed to buy the rights for IWD from Interplay as they left but they've been sitting on it ever since giving out scant information.

Yeah I loved it too... (I'm still loving it actually :D )
But HoW adds much more to the game than just the new quests!
And they DID make luremaster to make up for that :D
that obsidian thing.. very interesting.. where did you find this out?

I rather like the Infinity Engine's 2E implementation, especially BG2's with its class kits. Sure, the 3E rules allow more customization (which I like) but there's also something about the restrictiveness about the 2E that I actually find appealing.


Exactly.


So you don't like being able to build your characters with individual specifications through feats, skills, multi-classing and freedom from racial class limitations?
You don't like having a system which makes skill checks for dialogue options? You like being bound to largely each character being essentially identical to another of the same class? You like having stats that have to be huge to get any real benefit rather than a more individualised stat spread still making a difference?


Yes! :D But I have to admit... the way NWN2 implemented the newer ruleset has been very nice so far. I'm a pure ranger but it has been so much more rewarding than NWN1 or IWD2 for example. With the cool "dual-weapon / archery" specialization and all. Sorry if I offended you with my heresy :D

[Arpyjee]

I rather like the Infinity Engine's 2E implementation, especially BG2's with its class kits. Sure, the 3E rules allow more customization (which I like) but there's also something about the restrictiveness about the 2E that I actually find appealing.


I think The Broken Hourglass (http://planewalkergames.com/) is taking up a lot of his time.


Glad to hear my little thread inspired some happiness in the world. ;) That said, I think you might like TBH (link above), whenever it's finished. It is heavily inspired by the Infinity Engine games. The future for those liking "old-school" RPGs seems to be in the hands of indie-developers as the big buck moved on long ago.

I'm in the Severed Hand now, btw.

The Severed Hand area... WOW.

Talk about complexity, artistry, ambience, atmosphere... GALORE ! And the distinct & unique NPC's strewn throughout. That 2-D isometric view was like a painting, I could just sit & stare. Gosh I loved that place.

And the battles... LETHAL !!!

[Zakhary]

If any of you find any cool/useful IWD1 (or 2... ) stuff from the net please post 'em here! Those unofficial fix paks are great.

[Zakhary]

Allright... Made some plans with a certain friend of mine.
We get a nice three week christmas/winter holiday from the university
here in Finland. We're gonna play Icewind Dale 1 over local area network.
We do it almost every winter. It's almost like a tradition. Just the two of us, a dark room, two computers, lots of sauna and swimming in the snow, soda and heaps of unhealthy food.

No internet, no work/school and most of all... absolutely no women :D
It's like the highlight of the year :D

So.. we had this crazy idea. We're going to play (or try to) through the Iwd1+How+Luremaster with only two evil characters. We've done it before with 4 characters and it was quite easy. Is this doable?

They both would need to be able to kick arse in melee.. and the party would need some healing ability and some thieving ability (the game has tons of traps & locks..)

How about this:

1. Human // Fighter --> Cleric(/Druid) dual-classed quite early (3-6 level...)
and
2. Human // Thief --> Fighter dual-classed quite early... Or should we go multi-class?

What do you think?

There is also the possibility of going triple class... fighter/mage/thief and fighter/mage/cleric. Could be a viable option because with the expansion the exp-cap is quite high and with only two characters the exp gain would be much faster.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not a power gamer. In fact, I hate power gaming. I just want to make sure that the game can be played through with reasonable effort :D

[chamr]

Very jealous, Zak. My gaming group was all geeked up to do IWD2 a couple of months ago, but our dreams were dashed when we spent 2+ hours trying to get connected but just couldn't find a way around the problems our Hawaii member was having. Talk about bummed...

[Squeek]

Boy, that sounds like a lot of fun! The fighter/mage/thief is a good call, but you might consider going with a straight cleric instead of a combo. It's nice to be able to turn undead at a high level, especially in the HOW expansion. That would make for a challenging start, though.

[Gallifrey]

Hmm..
I guess there are a few options. I'd go with multi-class rather than dual-class, so as to have access to all the character's abilities all the time.

1. Cleric/Thief & Fighter Mage
This covers all your core classes, and the F/M would be a solid performer. The Cleric/Thief wouldn't be that great at melee but would be superb backup and utility.

2. Fighter/Cleric & Fighter/Druid
Both solid tanks with excellent crowd control and party bolstering spells, with lots of healing. No thieving abilities though, but the Cleric can use Detect Traps to at least allow avoidance of them. Locks would be a problem however.

3. Mage/Thief and Fighter/Cleric
A bit more diversity at the lack of melee power. But all your bases for traps, locks and healing are covered. You could make the M/T a Fighter/Mage/Thief to boost the melee power. I doubt the triple class would be a problem with only two characters.

4. Fighter/Mage/Thief & Fighter/Mage/Cleric
A good pairing as you pointed out, and maybe the most practical but it kind of lacks style.

[Zakhary]

Very jealous, Zak. My gaming group was all geeked up to do IWD2 a couple of months ago, but our dreams were dashed when we spent 2+ hours trying to get connected but just couldn't find a way around the problems our Hawaii member was having. Talk about bummed...

Yeah. When we were kids ( < 16 ) we used to play over LAN almost every weekend. The good old days. Now all my friends are spread across finland in different cities / jobs / schools etc... and everyone is so damn grown-up and worried about what their significant other thinks that those LAN weekends are out of the question. These Icewind Dale sessions are all that's left. But they are great.

Boy, that sounds like a lot of fun! The fighter/mage/thief is a good call, but you might consider going with a straight cleric instead of a combo. It's nice to be able to turn undead at a high level, especially in the HOW expansion. That would make for a challenging start, though.

Yeah.. straight cleric would work. But dual classing from two or three fighter levels would give better melee ability and more HP practically for free. Being pure just does not make sense in the 2.5 rules.

Hmm..
I guess there are a few options. I'd go with multi-class rather than dual-class, so as to have access to all the character's abilities all the time.

1. Cleric/Thief & Fighter Mage
This covers all your core classes, and the F/M would be a solid performer. The Cleric/Thief wouldn't be that great at melee but would be superb backup and utility.

2. Fighter/Cleric & Fighter/Druid
Both solid tanks with excellent crowd control and party bolstering spells, with lots of healing. No thieving abilities though, but the Cleric can use Detect Traps to at least allow avoidance of them. Locks would be a problem however.

3. Mage/Thief and Fighter/Cleric
A bit more diversity at the lack of melee power. But all your bases for traps, locks and healing are covered. You could make the M/T a Fighter/Mage/Thief to boost the melee power. I doubt the triple class would be a problem with only two characters.

4. Fighter/Mage/Thief & Fighter/Mage/Cleric
A good pairing as you pointed out, and maybe the most practical but it kind of lacks style.

So you'd think the triple-classes would be "safe but boring" -choices? But they would work?

[Squeek]

Some low-level clerical spells in IWD become much more powerful when they're cast at higher levels and also have longer durations, and that's something to keep in mind when you're playing a cleric.

For instance, a high-level cleric can become strength 25 and bash down any door. Or he can become invulnerable and ignore traps when he wants. Eventually, he is able to destroy even the most powerful undead in the game. Finally, he can stay sanctuaried for long periods of time, allowing him to cast all those nice protection spells, one right after another.

[Gallifrey]

Yes, Clerics are extremely strong. But what's the level cap for IWD with the expansions? Playing with only two characters, a multi-class will still hit the cap and probably fairly early on (comparatively speaking).

As for the triple classes, sure they'd work. I guess it depends on what you each like to play for determining the fun factor. The only thing I'd be wary of is that even though you'd level quickly (again, comparatively speaking), you may not level fast enough and would be very frail at the start. A pair of two-class multiclasses might have a stronger starting position.

It's been so long since I've played these games though, so keep that in mind. You might also consider a Cleric/Ranger, since don't they get both Cleric and Druidic spells? Or some such thing?

[Squeek]

But what's the level cap for IWD with the expansions? The cap's at 30. In Heart of Fury mode, you get there pretty fast. I doubt you could reach it going once through a regular single-player game, but maybe you could with only two characters.

[Zakhary]

The beginning part of the game quite easy so that is not a factor. It is later in the game when the problems start showing up :D

And yeah, I believe that mixing ranger/cleric would enable the cleric to cast nature spells. It could be quite interesting to do a Ranger --> Cleric dual-class.

How about dualing from thief --> druid :D ?

[Zaleukos]

The cap's at 30. In Heart of Fury mode, you get there pretty fast. I doubt you could reach it going once through a regular single-player game, but maybe you could with only two characters.

You can get there with the expansions in impossible, which isnt quite as ridiculous as HoF mode:p

[Gallifrey]

The beginning part of the game quite easy so that is not a factor. It is later in the game when the problems start showing up :D

True. Chances are that you could do well with nearly any combination you choose so long as you both know how to get the most out of the class(es) chosen.

I remember playing IWD2 with two friends, I played a Bard. That Bard saved the day more times than I would've believed possible. And managed to dish out more damage and chaos than I thought he'd be capable of. Point being, when you're only playing one character you can really get into the finer workings of the class abilities and pull off some surprising things.


And yeah, I believe that mixing ranger/cleric would enable the cleric to cast nature spells. It could be quite interesting to do a Ranger --> Cleric dual-class.

I've never played one, but I've heard it's a really strong combination. You'd be pretty flexible in what you can do - tank in heavy armour, sneak in light armour, heal, crowd control and so on.


How about dualing from thief --> druid :D ?

Too bad you can't do that. Dual classing is still limited to engine-allowed multiclasses. I had a Druid/Rogue in IWD2, a tiefling. She was really solid at the start, and up through the Ice Temple. After that though the multiclassing of those two classes started to hinder more than help, as the rest of the party became significantly stronger, her split of two very different classes hurt.

[Zakhary]

Too bad you can't do that. Dual classing is still limited to engine-allowed multiclasses. I had a Druid/Rogue in IWD2, a tiefling. She was really solid at the start, and up through the Ice Temple. After that though the multiclassing of those two classes started to hinder more than help, as the rest of the party became significantly stronger, her split of two very different classes hurt.

Yeah, you're right. Just found about that too. Cant go Rogue/Druid. But that's propably for the better anyway :D