Go Poland!

[Prime Junta]

The Witcher is coming out in three days, and now you decided to give Tweedledum the boot. Will the good news ever stop? And when's Tweedledee's turn?

;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Tennieldumdee.jpg

[zima98]

:). The good new is also that two populism parties (ultra-conservative LPR and socialist Samoobrona) are out of parliament :). They got sth about 1,5 % of votes :).

[Asbjoern]

Congratulations Poland. I'm really happy on behalf of you and I'm excited about what this is going to mean for EU.

[Elwro]

I really hope we'll have a reasonable person in charge of foreign affairs and we'll stop making a fool of ourselves in front of the whole Europe.

[Prime Junta]

Unlike the always dignified, mature, fair, and statesmanlike Italians, French, or Brits, for example?


http://www.haisentito.it/img/_Silvio_Berlusconi_rumba.jpg

Don't worry about it, Elwro -- sometimes I feel that the EU is mostly about making a fool of yourself in public.

That said, I for one will be very happy if there's a change of tone in the Poland/EU relationship. So, um, welcome back. Or something. ;)

[Jaz]

Gratz, Poland... I hope you folks chose well this time around.


Though I must admit the Potato Twins were really, really hilarious at times. Once No. 2 goes out of office, I'll instantly offer them a permanent job with my travelling stand-up comedy circus (should I ever start one).

[Dez]

You certainly should! =)

[VPeric]

So, who is going to fill the rest of us in?

[magerette]

My best guess is this is about the recent Polish elections, where the prime minister was voted out but his twin brother remains as detailed in this article (http://www.examiner.com/a-1003524~Poland_Prepares_for_New_Government.html).
from some site called examiner.com. Got it with a quick google so not much idea about the newsite.

[Jaz]

That's basically the story. The Kaczynski twin who's living with his mother and doesn't have a bank account of his own was voted out, the one who's married (but still acting strange) is still the president and must now deal with, i.e. veto, everything the new government will surely throw at him. One of them used to point pistols at people for fun if he didn't liek them, like Tusk who now won the elections (I forgot which K&K brother it was). Reaction when asked about th incident: "Sure, but it was just a tiny pistol."
Both Kaczynskis together were a lot funnier than Comical Ali who I should offer a job as opener in my political circus. ;).

[zima98]

One of them used to point pistols at people for fun if he didn't liek them, like Tusk who now won the elections (I forgot which K&K brother it was). Reaction when asked about th incident: "Sure, but it was just a tiny pistol.".

That who lives with mother and don't fortget also with former first cat of Republic of Poland ;). But this incident with gun don't take seriously - former prime minister really had a gun but talking about frightening another people with it was a Tusk joke during debate.

[Bartacus]

The most ridiculous thing was about how many votes (seats) they should have at the EU parlement -> "Since Germany eliminated so many Polish people during WW2, we have to considerate how big the population would be without this interference." A good way to get some extra seats you never deserve.
I mean if we go down this road, us Flemmish people just can't stop asking for extra votes => I don't think there was ever a time we weren't conquered and got decimated by a foreign force.

[zakhal]

Well unlike poles you flemish werent sold out to commies during the war. I think poles deserve their anger considering they were allies - one of the first and then allies just "forgot" them during the war dooming them to 50-years of living under communist dictatorship. I sure as hell would be mad at germans (and possibly som allies too) after that and distrustful in general.

http://www.haisentito.it/img/_Silvio_Berlusconi_rumba.jpg
I preferred to call him "Benito Berlusconi" lol. The guy is a real testament to statemanship. Among many things he called germans nazies and even managed to slip out a comment abt finnish food too.

[nessosin]

"Since Germany eliminated so many Polish people during WW2, we have to considerate how big the population would be without this interference."

All this talk about losses are connected with fear that Germans who were forced to leave Poland after the end of WW2 by communist goverment are trying to get thier possesions in Poland back. So you see there are people who fear theyll lose their homes( many people who were given those possesions were banished after WW2 from part of Poland(before 39') that became Ukraine(45') ) and they vote for nationalist like Kaczynscy. I cant blame them.

[Bartacus]

@zakhal + nessosin: The war is over for more then 60 years. I just fail to see why they can't move on.

It's just the same in my country: The major of Anwerp recentely appologized towards the Jewish population(pretty large -> Diamonds weren't always from the Indies). This was done because of the coörporation of the major and the city council during WW2 with the deportations.
In reaction a politician of another party called the major's appologies gratuite (cheap and thus only good for getting in the picture) and ridiculously late. That politician got the wind upfront in the media and offcourse with the still ongoing debates of getting a governement in Belgium, the other political factions attacked it too. The more I think about it, the more I know that this politician was right. The people that now lead the city weren't even born during WW2. Why is there a need of an appology now? That's why I said the ridiculous thing about the Flemmish people getting extra votes. Shit happens and most of the responsible persons got what they deserve is my conclusion on this one and most important is to move one and bare the past in mind.

[zakhal]

@zakhal + nessosin: The war is over for more then 60 years. I just fail to see why they can't move on.


Communist dictatorship in poland ended just 17 years ago.

[Bartacus]

Communist dictatorship in poland ended just 17 years ago.

So why the beef with Germany?

[zakhal]

So why the beef with Germany?

Germans started the war that lead them under the commies. Also I doubt the 50
years behind the iron wall made them compassionate. The iron fist of communism was
constant reminder of the war - the wounds didnt start to heal properly until they were freed from it.

[Bartacus]

Okay why not blame the English and the French? They made the pact from Versailles that was a direct reason for WW2. And before WW1 there were already wars between the French and the Germans (only they weren't called Germans back then, but I don't know the English name for them)

[zakhal]

You can argue all you like but facts are:
1. They have a dislike for germans (for whatever reason)
2. The reason is surely related to ww2/cold war one way or another

You can either try to understand it or make yourself believe it doesnt exist - your choice.

[Bartacus]

No, no, you misunderstood me. What I want to say is that what is called a reason for their dislike of the Germans is based on what we call in dutch "oude koeien uit de gracht halen" meaning that you can wine and wine about who did this to whom.

I do think it exists, but I want to take it away. After all Germany is a longtime member of the EU and so Poland knew that they would meet Germany again. It's a union of countries, not a place to divide (and conquer).

[nessosin]

@zakhal + nessosin: The war is over for more then 60 years. I just fail to see why they can't move on.


You know, its just politics, its doesnt have to be reasonable :) . I think no one in Poland treats those demands( about WW2) seriously. Its just counter-attack against demands coming from Germany, from people who were banished from Poland after WW2 and maybe additional argument in disscusion, ridiculus but nevertheless an argument.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

An Uncle of mine married a woman from Poland a few years ago.

So everyone's already mixing right now ... ;)

[zima98]

You know, its just politics, its doesnt have to be reasonable :) . I think no one in Poland treats those demands( about WW2) seriously. Its just counter-attack against demands coming from Germany, from people who were banished from Poland after WW2 and maybe additional argument in disscusion, ridiculus but nevertheless an argument.

1) You're right - nobody here treats that seriously. More votes in EU because 6 mln people died in war? "Oh god, our prime minister (or it was president ;)?) really said that :S? Oh no, he could sometimes shut his mouth." People here felt rather ashamed because of his words. One of reasons that our former prime minister and his party lost election was relations with Germany under their rules. People want here good relations with our west neighbour/of course still expecting care about our interests but in reasonable/diplomatic way.

2) Yes, we are "sensitive" about WW2. Why? Because when west Europe had time to "recover" from this war, make new relations with former enemies ect., we during 45 years of communism couldn't deal with this experiance - we weren't allowed to talk about it openly, the former fighters against Nazi were presecuted by communists, send to prisons and the propaganda made allies of Hitler from them . Only Soviet Union fighted against Nazis and of course people who supported their vision of world. And East Germany was our friends, they didn't do us any harm. The society as a whole couldn't deal with their experiance from war - because it couldn't be discussed freely in literature, media or in national debate. And in the first years of our liberty, we were to busy - we were trying to rebuilt our country. Now people finally are starting to think about past. But our society wants money, special rights because of WW 2? No. Our society is sensitive but in aspect of memory about this events.

We plan our future, live in present but still rember about past like everybody else in the world.

[HiddenX]

The absolute number of people in Germany claiming old properties in Poland and Czechia is very very small. Even the hardcore "Bund der Vertriebenen" = "league of expellees" accepts all actual state frontiers.
The polish/german relations will normalize with time - I know some very nice polish immigrants and temporary workers in my hometown. They are integrated in the german society and clubs. I like their down-to-earth approach to living - we germans can learn a lot from them.