VtM-Bloodlines - Unofficial v5.04AT Patch @ GamersHell

[magerette]

Gamer'sHell has posted an unofficial patch (http://www.gamershell.com/news/42755.html) for Troika's Vampire:The Maqurade-Bloodlines along with this information:
Patch v1.2 is required if you have the retail version of the game
This is a repair patch for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, intended to do nothing but fix bugs that were still present within the game, following its release. This patch will not change any other aspects of the original VTMB, other than to restore any broken (but intended by Troika) content that the official patch from ActiVision failed to repair. Thanks: Steven.


More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=6902)

[Dark Savant]

This one is almost a month old. I hope they have the updated version on their servers.
The official topic on Tessera forum
http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index.php/topic,1112.0.html

[Zakhary]

I think i'm gonna replay this game with this "true" patch installed
sometime soon.

Seems great. Really great. Loved bloodlines, of course :D

[magerette]

Thanks, Dark Savant. I couldn't spot any info on it elsewhere and there's no attribution, so it's good to have your backup. The file size on the one at GH is only 52.35 mb whereas the file at your listed site is shown as 53.6 so they may be different.

[Dark Savant]

This new version contains a couple of script repairs:

Important Update: HOTFIX #1

Acrimonious has sent me a couple of script repairs. Neither of them is game-breaking, but they are significant.

The version of patch 5.04AT that is currently on our server has been updated with these two repaired scripts.
I suggest downloading a new copy of the True Patch from our Downloads page, and then re-installing it on top
of your current True Patch installation. So long as you have already been using our patch, you will not need to
re-install the entire game, or do anything drastic like that. Just drop a new copy right on top of the old one.

As previosuly stated, this is basically a small hotfix. It's just a couple of scripts that contained previously
undiscovered errors. Both scripts have been repaired and patch 5.04AT has been updated accordingly.

The direct link to the hotfixed patch is:
http://www.tessmage.com/downloads/True_VTMB_504AT.zip

[Acleacius]

Hard to believe RPGWatch is supporting this patch, these are the guys whom stole the Unofficial Patch works used it as if they had done the work.

Now they are stealing the name and using an almost identical numbering scheme, to undermine the work of the Bloodlines community that has worked on the Unofficial Patch since release of the game.

Not sure I see the difference between this and if a reviewer here copied someone else's review then posted it here has their own.
Very sad. :(

[Dhruin]

I don't, but magerette is simply doing her job and posting everything she sees.

For those interested in a minimal patch, why not just use Wesp's basic installation?

[Acleacius]

I understand and am not blaming magerette, if I gave the impression I was blaming magerette, then I worded it poorly. :(
It's not her fault at all, he and his little minions, misrepresent it to many websites and the clear intent is to confuse, all we fans can do is try to point out the facts.

As she might not even be aware of blatant theft of work published as his own, self aggrandizing and clear intent to harm the Vampire community, many who has worked to fix Bloodlines for 3 years, in November.

He is now trying to usurp the name "Unofficial" and numerical scheme used, to give the false and lying impression his patch is the Unofficial with a higher value than the Unofficial patch.

He has even taken to adding very minor things like a texture fix and adding his personal nude skins (as if that was intended) then passing it off as a new version of the patch to he can keep ahead of the Unofficial patch, numerically.

I would say, as a guess since he has started this BS, Wesp in an effort to be accurate while holding him and his little cohorts accountable for stealing our (the communities) work has had to devote 40% to 50% of his time dealing with this BS instead of working on the patch.

The imminent release of Unofficial 4.3 would have made such a nice 3 year celebration, alas I can only hope Wesp holds off on release now, for a couple of weeks.

[Avantenor]

I thought he shut down his website, with some offended statement on the frontpage, complaining about lack of support against his critics? Now it's open again. Strange thing...

Don't see a problem in this patch, only in that discussions around. Me thinks that this is really annoying.

[magerette]

I was concerned about this when I posted it as Gamer's Hell had no author for the patch, but thought since it offered a bug fix without a content change, it might be of value. I apologize if I promoted a patch with a bad provenance.

I know how hard fan communities work to produce things like this and it must be very frustrating to deal with. My apologies if I've done wrong here.

[Vesuvius]

The whole business with the VtMB bloodlines is extremely messy. Having said that however, this is PROBABLY the superior patch. The accusations of being "stolen" are NOT valid and haven't been valid in ages as it was rebuilt from SCRATCH (i.e. the v 1.2 version).

While one of the contributors designs certain reskin mods, but they ARE NOT part of this patch.

Long story short: it's a smaller patch than the alternative, with fewer dramatic changes to the game. For those who still play it they should give it a try. If not no loss...

[Dhruin]

@magerette, you haven't done the wrong thing at all. The correct thing is to post the news and let the community decide for themselves what they like - this is, and always should be, our basic philosophy. That said, since I understood the site had been taken down (hadn't checked back lately) and never liked the approach this group took, I didn't bother posting about this version.

Absolutely no problem.

[Dark Savant]

@Acleacius - You are sooo wrong.
This patch is superior even to Wesp's basic installation. Wesp's patch is NOT a patch. It`s clearly a huge modification to the game. It is a great mod, but it`s surely not a patch for purists and he released this basic installation after the release of the "true" patch.
Nobody steal any work from Wesp. Actually Wesp continue with his patch after Dan Upright finished with his work.
I agree, Tessera is an idiot, but he has basically nothing to do with this "true" patch
Acrimonious is the man and he is a really decent guy.

[KazikluBey]

Didn't Wesp make a "basic" version of his patch as well?

Edit: Looks like it.

[Dark Savant]

He sure did after this "true" patch form the camp.:)

[vanedor]

Amazing some people still bother patching this SP game so many years after its release. Played it a couple ago and found it fairly decent... but not up to point to replay it entirely just to see some bug corrections.

[zakhal]

Nonsense. I bought it only recently.

[Dhruin]

Nobody steal any work from Wesp. Actually Wesp continue with his patch after Dan Upright finished with his work.
I agree, Tessera is an idiot, but he has basically nothing to do with this "true" patch
Acrimonious is the man and he is a really decent guy.

So prior versions of the "true patch" weren't based on Dan's/Wesp's work without proper credit in the readme?

I appreciate Acrimonious did the real work (again, originally based on Wesps/Dans work) but I've never seen anything from him, so if you let Tessera represent you, what other impression are we supposed to get?

[Acleacius]

magerette, my apologizes if you felt I was blaming you, clearly I am a linguistic idiot. :)

Vesuvius
Having said that however, this is PROBABLY the superior patch
Probably? Superior? Opinion without verifiable examples, i.e. facts?

The accusations of being "stolen" are NOT valid and haven't been valid in ages as it was rebuilt from SCRATCH (i.e. the v 1.2 version).
So once you plagiarize the work of the community for your own ego and exploitation, you are forgiven without the megerist of apologizes and with absolutely no sign of remorse?
All he did was POSSIBLY remove the FACT that he published as his own, OUR WORK but he has and is currently damaging the community with his continued arrogance, by STEALING the name of Unofficial and the numerical sequence of the Unofficial patch.
Releasing patches without significant improvements just to falsely increase the the numerical value to seem higher than the Unofficial patch, with the INTENT to mislead.

Dark Savant
You are sooo wrong.
This patch is superior even to Wesp's basic installation. Wesp's patch is NOT a patch.
Really? Got any thing we can verify LIKE the examples I list?

Nobody steal any work from Wesp.
Oh really, if that's true how is it, everyone seems to know this as a fact, except maybe you?

Actually Wesp continue with his patch after Dan Upright finished with his work.
Yes, that's correct for about 2.5 years now, I started helping DanUpright with the original Game Breaking bug at Leopold at Dilapidation, though I don't see why this matters.

I agree, Tessera is an idiot, but he has basically nothing to do with this "true" patch Acrimonious is the man and he is a really decent guy.
I don't know either but it's clear they are trying to currently steal the Unofficial name and Numerical System that has been in place for 3 YEARS, in the attempt to mislead, there is absolutely no other possible reason.

He sure did after this "true" patch form the camp
Do you see the size of the Unofficial patch, since it seems you haven't been keeping up, over the development time there has been talk of adding a basic patch for more than a year.
Of course after someone steals your work and passes it off as their own, seems to make sense to release the basic patch, whether it adds another 50 meg or not.

Anytime you would like to present some evidence to the situation that would be great to hear.

[Dark Savant]

Ok, I don`t know about you. I have been replaying Bloodlines with virtually all new releases from both camps. Wesp's complete unofficial "patch" is an extensive modification of the game. This is THE FACT. You don`t need any evidence, just look at the readme file and play the game.

Yes, there is some stupid game around numerical system and all that but who cares. If I want to play the game without any arbitrary changes, true to Troika's original vision (or a least a close as possible) - "true" patch is the one to install.

I think it is great to have options, don`t you. If you wish to play the game without any significant modification use "true" patch, if you want a bit different experience then use Wesp's patch. Both are great imho.
And talking about a basic patch for more than a year and actually making one is a bit different think, don`t you think so.:) Wesp was mentioned in the first release of the "true" patch. Maybe not properly credited, but certainly
mentioned. I just have to look if I have a backup copy of the first release to verify this.

[Wesp5]

Ok, I don`t know about you. I have been replaying Bloodlines with virtually all new releases from both camps. Wesp's complete unofficial "patch" is an extensive modification of the game. This is THE FACT. You don`t need any evidence, just look at the readme file and play the game.

I'm Wesp5 who is doing the unofficial patches and I still believe that it's a matter of personal opinion whether some issues are modifications or fixes but of course you are right in that the unofficial patch restores a lot of unused content and this may be called modification. The "basic" patch though does this to a much lesser extend and in comparison to the "true" patch fixes much more bugs. Just look at the readme file and play the game ;).

Nevertheless I would like RPGWatch to change this thread title itself as the "true" patch is still called "True 5.04AT unofficial patch" on GameSpot and just calling it "unofficial" patch here is wrong and will confuse people. I think regardless of their jumping in the version number to look as if they are better (4.01 -> 4.02 -> 4.03 -> 4.04 -> 5.04 with less changes than ever) we should stick to at least seperating them as "unofficial" and "true" patches.

[Dark Savant]

Yes, I know about the basic patch. Haven`t yet tried it.:)

Otherwise I respect and regularly use your version of the patch/mod. You are doing a great job, I just think it is great that people can choose from various alternatives.

This whole mess around these patches is really silly but if I heard correctly Acrimonious refused to work with you...

btw
On the "official" Tessmage site it is called just
TRUE VTMB PATCH ver. 5.04AT

[Wesp5]

This whole mess around these patches is really silly but if I heard correctly Acrimonious refused to work with you...

Not exactly, we almost worked together but then Tessera talked him out of it somehow. Obviously Tessera is the one needing the drama and who want's to get attention with the "true" patch.


On the "official" Tessmage site it is called just
TRUE VTMB PATCH ver. 5.04AT

That's what I meant. Changing this thread name and the news message would clear up the confusion.

[Dhruin]

Actually, I meant to edit it but forgot. I won't call it "true", so I'll change to to "alternative".

[Wesp5]

Actually, I meant to edit it but forgot. I won't call it "true", so I'll change to to "alternative".

Thanks very much!

[Vesuvius]

magerette, my apologizes if you felt I was blaming you, clearly I am a linguistic idiot. :)

Vesuvius

Probably? Superior? Opinion without verifiable examples, i.e. facts?


So once you plagiarize the work of the community for your own ego and exploitation, you are forgiven without the megerist of apologizes and with absolutely no sign of remorse?
All he did was POSSIBLY remove the FACT that he published as his own, OUR WORK but he has and is currently damaging the community with his continued arrogance, by STEALING the name of Unofficial and the numerical sequence of the Unofficial patch.
Releasing patches without significant improvements just to falsely increase the the numerical value to seem higher than the Unofficial patch, with the INTENT to mislead.

Dark Savant


Really? Got any thing we can verify LIKE the examples I list?


Oh really, if that's true how is it, everyone seems to know this as a fact, except maybe you?


Yes, that's correct for about 2.5 years now, I started helping DanUpright with the original Game Breaking bug at Leopold at Dilapidation, though I don't see why this matters.


I don't know either but it's clear they are trying to currently steal the Unofficial name and Numerical System that has been in place for 3 YEARS, in the attempt to mislead, there is absolutely no other possible reason.


Do you see the size of the Unofficial patch, since it seems you haven't been keeping up, over the development time there has been talk of adding a basic patch for more than a year.
Of course after someone steals your work and passes it off as their own, seems to make sense to release the basic patch, whether it adds another 50 meg or not.

Anytime you would like to present some evidence to the situation that would be great to hear.

Honestly, Acleacius...proof? Proof? On a forum? Providing proof would be an exercise in futility- not because it can't be done but because doing so would do nothing more than fuel an endless and largely meaningless debate (argument) about the "rightness" of each other's "facts".

Hence PROBABLY superior...I make no definitive claim about one patch being better than the other...if you think your line of patches are better then by all means run with it...I'm not going to lose any sleep over the decision that a total stranger who I'll never meet makes...It is as you've rightly indicated a personal opinion.

The point about "stealing" keeps cropping up. As I understand it, the entire situation arose about whether the authors of a previous build were credited or not. Now one can believe whatever side you like but ultimately it's a DEAD ISSUE. Because of the accusations, the AT authors took down the contested patch, REFUSE to support it, and have rebuilt their work for subsequent versions from SCRATCH. Therefore: in the past, thus DEAD issue.

There are now two independent lines of patches for the VTMB game, one of which identifiable by the AT suffix (after the authors). Whichever one a person chooses to use is as I've indicated previously a matter of personal preference...

[Dhruin]

Noone is stopping anyone from using whatever patch they want. It's your own prerogative to consider the lack of appropriate credit a dead issue but I most certainly don't agree. I watched Wesp ask for the original readme to be included while Tessera launched into belittling, derogatory and inflamatory rhetoric about Wesp's work.

What was required was a simple "Sorry - that was an oversight and we'll fix it immediately". His hysteria continued until - unable to simply admit the truth - he finally announced in a fit of melodrama and after considerable public pressure that they would start over.

If you don't consider using someone else's work without proper credit - ridiculing Wesp's work and refusing to admit the truth along the way - as stealing and reprehensible, then that's your choice. I wouldn't touch Tessera's work with a 50 foot barge pole.

[Vesuvius]

The thing is there's been so much vitriol being spewed from both sides about this that it's just baffling. This is very likely one of those situations where the truth becomes a subjective phenomenon and may never be revealed.

At some point you just have to step back and let things go you know? Given that both sides have recently declared a truce, and that the 5.04AT is an original work (so no ethical qualms there), it's as you've rightly pointed out, up to each individual to choose what patch to install. The good thing being that there are now alternatives available...and more options are never a bad thing.

[Acleacius]

Dark Savant
And talking about a basic patch for more than a year and actually making one is a bit different think, don`t you think so.
Of course no one is debating the time line afaik, however as I mentioned you, me or anyone would know if you have been a part of the Bloodlines community, why it had not been released.
As I mentioned there have been many issues in what to release and what not too and SIZE was (still is to some degree) an issue that has to be taken into account.
After this drama of lies and misrepresentation what choice was there, not to release a Basic Unofficial patch.

Of course choice is important but you know what the most important thing is, even more than choice, which is true in every aspect of life, interpersonal, social, political and religious?
It's accuracy/truth, because how can you ever make a choice if you don't know what you are actually choosing.
If someone/government/religion/mate lies to you about the choices you have, are you making a REAL choice, no.

Vesuvius
Honestly, Acleacius...proof? Proof? On a forum? Providing proof would be an exercise in futility
Maybe but I didn't ask for absolutes, I am always willing to consider only slightly plausible info, but if that's the case then don't expect me not to address the info no matter how factual it seems, if it isn't remotely correct or accurate. :)

Hey, I am not trying to make you believe or do anything you don't want to do, however if something is said, which is important at least in the context of the discussion then I mention it out of accuracy. :)

Yes, here is my criteria, remember I am only 1 vote and if you have been a part of the Bloodlines community you would know Wesp always is at least willing to listen to ideas in the forums.

Does the patch make the game more fun and interesting, there by drawing more people to the Vampire World, if not why bother?

Other wise your only patching for the Hardcore which will NOT bring more fans, since if Hardcore was enough there would be be millions playing Vampire P&P instead of thousands.

Accessibility while maintaining the best possible solutions from the VtM rules, that's the key.

In regards to stealing, it comes up as it was the catalyst which lit the fuel of this disaster, whether you (or I) were paying attention or not, which I wasn't since I was at the time off playing and supporting other games like Gothic 3.
I came late to the situation but it wasn't hard to read a little to see what happened since it was the same on all concerned forums.

This whole charade has been about an ego maniac attacking Wesp and dividing the community, whether I believe this or you do, doesn't matter, if it's true. :)

Edit
Dhruin, is it just me or does the title still say, Unofficial or maybe I read your post wrong about changing it?

Son of edit
Nm, I see it now on the main page, apologizes I originally only saw the post title. :)

[Dhruin]

I've changed the original newsbit but I can't change the heading of this thread -- it's automatically generated by the system when the first comment is made.

[Dark Savant]

Vampire Bloodlines is 50% off on steam for Halloween.

http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=game&AppId=2600&cc=SI

[knittyker]

How i may contact admin this site? I have a question.
iijiivei

[Unrestigered]

The thing is there's been so much vitriol being spewed from both sides about this that it's just baffling. This is very likely one of those situations where the truth becomes a subjective phenomenon and may never be revealed.

At some point you just have to step back and let things go you know? Given that both sides have recently declared a truce, and that the 5.04AT is an original work (so no ethical qualms there), it's as you've rightly pointed out, up to each individual to choose what patch to install. The good thing being that there are now alternatives available...and more options are never a bad thing.

Read Dhruin's post above yours, there is nothing baffeling at all. I can verify Dhruin's overview as being true. Either you think stealing someone's work without credit is fine, or you don't. Either you see asking to recieve credit in a readme for the work you've done is reasonable, or you don't. This is pretty cut and dry, and baffle-free. I'll repost dhruin's post for people that can't be bothered to scroll up a little:


"Noone is stopping anyone from using whatever patch they want. It's your own prerogative to consider the lack of appropriate credit a dead issue but I most certainly don't agree. I watched Wesp ask for the original readme to be included while Tessera launched into belittling, derogatory and inflamatory rhetoric about Wesp's work.

What was required was a simple "Sorry - that was an oversight and we'll fix it immediately". His hysteria continued until - unable to simply admit the truth - he finally announced in a fit of melodrama and after considerable public pressure that they would start over.


In regards to mods: I hate when people use the word "purest" and as "troika inteded" in the same sentence. The only thing we know for a fact is that troika did not release the game as they wanted. We can reasonably assume the cut-content was intended to be in the game. We can reasonably assume troika did not want to release such a buggy game. We can assume they would've loved to have the funding to work on the game for x amount longer, which would have resulted in a different game than what we got.

When you start saying "intended" you are getting into symantics. We can also reasonably assume that whoever send the gold master off to press intended to do so, but we cannot reasonably, or even probably assume that is the game Troika intended (or wanted, or invisioned) us playing.

But, why not sneak this question to leonard during a D3 interview?

If you don't consider using someone else's work without proper credit - ridiculing Wesp's work and refusing to admit the truth along the way - as stealing and reprehensible, then that's your choice. I wouldn't touch Tessera's work with a 50 foot barge pole."