Gothic 3 - Patch #2 Released

[txa1265]

As reported at World of Gothic (http://www.worldofgothic.com/#198) , The next patch for the European version of the game has been released, weighing in at MB and bringing the game to version 1.08. Of course, you can also get it from the Official Site (http://www.gothic3.com/index.php?do=0970991161051111100611101011191150381 10101119115105100061055049) :
I. TECHNICAL BUGFIXES
=====================

Build 1.08
----------
- Several crash bugs fixed
- Performance increased
- Combat AI for several monsters improved/simplified (e.g. boar)
- Lots of AI Fixes ( Murderer Reaction from party member fixed, AI comments improved)
- Sleeping NPC's AI reactions improved
- Camera Control: Inverting the X-axis is now saved
- Lensflare/Sun doesn't shine through mountains and buildings anymore
- Rhobar and Zuben are dead after defeating them
- Revolution mechanics improved
- Lester does now talk even when not sitting at the campfire
- Epilogue fixed
- "No mission success after 2 times "not enough gold" fixed

II. CONTENT FIXES
=============

Build 1.08
----------
- Vak and Gonzales are now still there after a revolution
- There are now more weapons at traders and in chests
- Annoying NPCs from Faring arena removed
- Story and Missions in Al shedim improved. (Lester,Saturas,Wutras,etc...)
- Snorre's ancestor stone fixed
- All problems of Hogar and the southern Orcs fixed
- Ronar Trading fixed
- Less monsters/Orcs in Nordmar
- Vibald is now carrying explosive arrows
- Bogir dialog fixed
- Osmund dialog fixed

III. CHANGES/ADDITIONS
======================

Build 1.08
----------
- Crossbow handling improved
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=2453)

[josephwatson]

Has this patch made the game more playable? In other news, my order for Gothic 3 from New Zealand has been delayed by another week (November 4th). By the time I get it, it will already be out in the states!

[Acleacius]

Good news, thanks txa1265. :)

Gorath whats, stat boni?
You mean we can actually keep our current Saves?

Thanks. :)

[Jabberwocky]

Has this patch made the game more playable? In other news, my order for Gothic 3 from New Zealand has been delayed by another week (November 4th). By the time I get it, it will already be out in the states!

Did you order the CE edition? 'Cause if you did then it doesn't matter that it's out in the US, because the US doesn't get a CE. If you just ordered the plain version, well... too bad. :-/

Hey, it sounds like they really worked over a lot of stuff in this patch. I hope it makes a big difference. The game reviews that have been coming out seem to be rating G3 an average of 8/10. With another patch or two like this one and it might go up there to 9/10 like a worthy Gothic game should be! I'm really glad they got this one out the door before US reviewers get their hands on it.

[Corwin]

The key question is still- Does it affect Save Games in any way? It appears not to, since they aren't really mentioned, but I might wait for someone to post that they're playing an old SG after patch with no hassles!! :)

[Garrett]

Gorath, can you explain in detail what you mean...I didn't get that either :-/

Oh, after reading the German version I understood.
Not sure if you can continue with any savegame then or just with the one in which you dropped all your equipment - still, very annoying thing that is...after 2 patches >:(

[Gorath]

What´s up with you guys today ? ;)
Would it make any sense to unequip (not drop!) your amour, etc. if you can´t continue with the same savegame?

[Garrett]

what is up with us guys?
well, maybe we are just slowly but steadily beginning to get annoyed by pb, who are ruining their reputation with this g3 desaster :rolleyes:

but again, i didn't get what you want to tell us:
if i unequip all my equipment now and save this game, then i can use this very savegame only after patch 1.08 to be sure the explot doesn't affect me?
in other words, do i need to do this with every savegame i want to use after patch 1.08?
cannot be, that was total bullshit...i must be wrong

[Gorath]

Unequip if you want correct stats, don´t if you want twice the stats. As explained by PB in the patch notes.

[Garrett]

i got that, but...ok, i'll explain it in detail:

i have 2 savegames now, let's call them savegame 1 and savegame 2.
if i do this to savegame 1 only, can the exploit still happen in savegame 2?

[Gorath]

Probably yes, I think. There´s no need to use an older savegame though.

[Garrett]

Probably yes, I think. There´s no need to use an older savegame though.


Pardon me, but I beg to differ, as there was this savegame bug, remember? ;)
Anyway, they cannot be serious...I think that is the end for G3 on my harddisk

[Gorath]

Is their still a savegame bug in 1.08?

[Jabberwocky]

Anyway, they cannot be serious...I think that is the end for G3 on my harddisk

So... let me get this straight... you're going to stop playing the game because you have to put your sword away and re-save... even though they fixed a bunch of stuff? :S

And you were complaining that Gorath didn't make any sense?? ;)

[Garrett]

Is their still a savegame bug in 1.08?
in 1.07, and that is what counts in this case

[Garrett]

So... let me get this straight... you're going to stop playing the game because you have to put your sword away and re-save... even though they fixed a bunch of stuff? :S

And you were complaining that Gorath didn't make any sense?? ;)


yes, because there's plenty of other, bugfree & annoyance-free games to play.

[Corwin]

If anything, the beasties are now too easy; I just killed 3 boars with Orcslayer!!

[Unregistered]

Corwin >>> Well, then, what about the orcs?

[josephwatson]

Nope, I didn't order the CE, just the plain old vanilla version. I'm not hurting too bad, though -- I'm replaying Planescape Torment for the 1st time since 1999 and loving it. It's a little pixelated, but just as fun.

[Unregistered]

At least, the patch doesn't seem to have fixed "fetch common items" type quests such as 'Shy Deer', 'Wolf Skins Delivery' and 'DIY Tools for Rebuilding' ones. However, in my case, the bugs seem to be minor although I am running Gothic 3 on a machine with the physical memory of 500mb! Of course, loading and saving take time but I know save-often policy pays off. I haven't experienced single crash and the trick may be to set the page file huge - 3 Gb on my machine.

As for combat, I am using a balanced melee/ranged character, aiming at a two-weapon fighter, and try to lure a few opponents and finish them before they engag into melee. In one on one melee combat, I don't have a problem with orcs except the knocking-back system makes me mashing the buttons. I often end up right-click mashing for keep the opponent knocked back, which simplifies the melee combat too much, IMO. Reading others' comments on combat, I think I can keep going probably because I rely on the most decently implemented weapon - bow. Some people seem to have complained of the scarcity of arrows but headshots help in keeping the resource. Or, if you are not accustomed to it, probably teleporting to a few towns and looking into inventories of the hunters and traders - not weapon smiths' for they sell quarrels for crossbows - would help.

At the moment, although Gothic III has many things to be desired, basically I like the faction-based reaction system and the feel of exploring the wilderness. Gaining the trust of orcs and working for rebels behind their back is much more interesting than simple good/evil alignment system. I'd like to see this system and the AI reactions to be more explored in the future. While in wilderness, I always need to try to keep myself aware of the environment, which is what I liked in Gothic series.

Despite minor bugs, I have no game-stopping problem with Gothic 3 yet and I don't find a single reason to stop playing it.

[ToddMcF2002]

I have to say this release of Gothic 3 is significantly worse than the worst scenario I had imagined. Has anyone seen the official boards? What a mess. I know Bluesnews has alot of whiners but have you read some of that stuff???

I don't think this is a hell of alot different than Dungeon Lords from a bug / feature set point of view. Not a good thing. *sigh*. Oblivions technical quality is going to to be a major factor in every US review unfortunately.

[Corwin]

There is NO comparison between G3 and DL!! Have you forgotten already the screams of outrage over Oblivion? G3 is MUCH better in my not very humble opinion!! :)

[Unregistered]

I have to say this release of Gothic 3 is significantly worse than the worst scenario I had imagined. Has anyone seen the official boards? What a mess. I know Bluesnews has alot of whiners but have you read some of that stuff???
Although I haven't read them all and am not willing to do so I believe at least the part of the "whiners" is the net. Some people don't even seem to have played the game at all. For, as for the game itself, I haven't seen a major bug yet and reviewers haven't reported it, either, probably except the broken save-game bug, about which I have no experience. At least, if I limit the topic to the game itself, I think there is nothing serious to hardcore RPG/Gothic fans with reasonable knowledge about computer.
There is NO comparison between G3 and DL!! Have you forgotten already the screams of outrage over Oblivion?
To be fair, Oblivion didn't have so many technical issues. Even some FPS gamers seem to be happy with Oblivion. The problems hardcore RPGamers found are mainly of its design philosophy.

Personally I found the problem with Gothic 3 is that it is hard for the majority to cope their lives with the game. Even I myself, miss the quest-tracking system of Oblivion. I know the feeling of hardcore RPGamers about it. However, under my environment, it is impossible to spend continuous several hours on a game. When I come back after a week, for example, I'd like to play it straight. If I cannot remember the details, a well-designed quest tracking system would be helpful in such a case. With turn off-on function, even the quest-compass would be great. For even the hardcore gamers may need hints at times. Also, I think messenger app style information update notification system would be helpful, too. Rather than Oblivion's notification which interrupts into the game-play, ticker at the corner of the screen would be nice. Some people may say this is dumbing-down but the point is it is up to the players to read the information or not. Players can ignore the ticker just like they do with spams.

I have nothing against tough games but I'd like to see some innovations which make my life easier. In short, I'd like to know when and where my character should be in order to achieve quest objectives in Oblivion way, but about the choices on how to solve them such as choices on which side the "hero" should take, I like Gothic 3 style much better.

The market is getting competitive and I'd like Gothic series to survive.

[ToddMcF2002]

There is NO comparison between G3 and DL!! Have you forgotten already the screams of outrage over Oblivion? G3 is MUCH better in my not very humble opinion!! :)

LOL I was talking about its technical state, not the game design. Look I'm a HUGE gothic fan, but lets face it the release is a total mess. Oblivion was not even close. I played 150 hours with no patch at all! Say what you want about Oblivion, but its polished technically - and by all accounts it runs alot smoother at max details. ALOT.

For example - like I mentioned in the Gothic forum - 15 FPS for a 7900GTX SLI setup? What on earth is with that? Directly comparable Oblivion numbers would be 35 FPS absolute minimum! How can anyone find this engine acceptable with that kind of performance? Add that to the memory leaks causing save game crashes? The known issues with ATI cards and the 7800GS Nvidia series? Did they test the game at all??? These arent isolated incidents by a long shot. Note that I'm not even talking about the bugs they have already fixed. I really don't see them fixing these issues before the US release. This thing needed another 3 - 6 months minimum.

Also as the "unregistered" poster mentioned - the quest log sounds like a real problem especially given the world size. Frankly it sounds rediculously thin even compared to what weve had in the series so far. What the heck was wrong with those quests logs? I wouldnt exactly have called those "hand holding" by any stretch. The only game I've seen recently with an even more difficult (less useful) log than G1/G2 would be the uber cryptic Arx Fatalis.

[Unregistered]

For example - like I mentioned in the Gothic forum - 15 FPS for a 7900GTX SLI setup? What on earth is with that? Directly comparable Oblivion numbers would be 35 FPS absolute minimum! How can anyone find this engine acceptable with that kind of performance? Add that to the memory leaks causing save game crashes? The known issues with ATI cards and the 7800GS Nvidia series? Did they test the game at all??? These arent isolated incidents by a long shot. Note that I'm not even talking about the bugs they have already fixed. I really don't see them fixing these issues before the US release. This thing needed another 3 - 6 months minimum.
I had avoided the forum to accidentally hit spoilers but the memory leak/allocation issue seems to be serious than I thought. Freedom in wider exploration with eye candy graphic seems to be really heavy on resources and the information has to be saved becomes larger when the players explored more. It seems still not the time for me to give up the current game but I'm not sure how much I can go before the problem hits my PC.

[Unregistered]

And yet, still some positive reviews coming, too. I found this review at Softpediea (http://www.softpedia.com/reviews/games/pc/Gothic-3-Review-38636.shtml). Must be quite confusing for people still deciding to buy it or not.

[Corwin]

I have not had a SG crash in days of playing, nor any other appreciable problem. Sure, I'd like a better designed quest journal, but that's a minor issue to me. I have so many quests, I could never keep track of them, but eventually, they seem to get resolved and I've made it to level 18. This game is just as much fun as the previous two and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to others!!

[milamber]

Boars are now fixed, but why didnt they fix those damn bloodflies:-/
they still attack me like mad!

[Corwin]

One firebal and they're history!! :biggrin:

[ToddMcF2002]

I have not had a SG crash in days of playing, nor any other appreciable problem. Sure, I'd like a better designed quest journal, but that's a minor issue to me. I have so many quests, I could never keep track of them, but eventually, they seem to get resolved and I've made it to level 18. This game is just as much fun as the previous two and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to others!!

Are you taking notes on paper? Is it necessary?

[titus]

remember G1, bloodflies were like hell too there, especially until you got some lvls and a good weapon and even then they were hard in group. I haven't played it yet, but there has not been anything that i heard that would keep me of playing. Not even the now fixed Boars of hell :D

[Thaurin]

I don't know what people find wrong about the quest log. I mean, they're sorted by location, main, current, failed and completed much like in the previous games. The difference here is that instead of a small description, we get the entire conversation text that led to the acquisition of the quest. I liked that idea at first, but I guess that some people's tastes differ on this.

Performance on my 3500+ / 1GB / 6800GT setup is not much worse than I had with Oblivion-- after tweaking. There are the occasional few-second load-times, but absolutely not as much as before. I can remember Oblivion having them, as well, anyway. And Oblivion still had zoning, which allowed it to have areas that gave 70+ FPS, because it was just another level, and not part of a huge world like Gothic 3's.

And Gothic 3's world is so much more fun than Oblivion's, anyway. It's much more divers and more interestingly filled. I was really amazed yesterday when I found a river with a bridge over it and a town behind. I'm not sure what town that was, but it was damn big, too.

No, I can still remember the screams of Bethesda fans when Oblivion first came out and it was not just about design issues. I distinctly remember hordes of players complaining about lack of polish, like Bethesda didn't pour any love into the game, with broken quests, rain that comes through the roof, missing horse jump animation, poor performance/optimization, crashes to desktop, the whole deal, even graphical problems. In fact, Oblivion still hangs my computer when I exit it (even after applying the patch). So I can definitely find similarities here.

I'm not saying that Gothic 3 is without problems, I'm saying that Oblivion wasn't neither. And I'm saying that it's not so bad that I can't see the huge fun world and potential that Gothic 3 has. So far the biggest problems for me is loading times (saving definitely doesn't take so long, or does it increase as the game progresses?) and the save game corruption scare. Hasn't happened, but that really shouldn't happen, ever.

All the rest of the problems are also in games like Gothic II, but for some reason people won't accept that stuff any more these days and just want their games to be totally flawless at release, all the time. Just look at Gothic I and II, man, and see how utterly unpolished it all is. Even the menu system is hard to use, with it's poor contrast between selected and unselected items.

[Unregistered]

Are you taking notes on paper? Is it necessary?
I think there are "over 600 quests" according to this site (http://guides.gamepressure.com/gothic3/), which Dhruin introduced. So, there shouldn't be a problem to finish the game, having more fun even if we miss a part of them. I am not sure of the other people but to people here, as Corwin says, I don't hesitate to recommend this game.
One firebal and they're history!! :biggrin:
Hmmm... Then, I wonder if the character skill balance is O.K. or not. My character is level 30 or something and still needs to finish off a bloodfly with 2 or 3 shots. They are no problem to my character, either, though. Neither are boars even without the patch since they move straightly toward the "hero", making themselves easy targets. Magic or not, I think ranged combat makes life easier. About balance among skills, there seems to be still rooms for improvements but fan is O.K. on my part.
I don't know what people find wrong about the quest log. I mean, they're sorted by location, main, current, failed and completed much like in the previous games. The difference here is that instead of a small description, we get the entire conversation text that led to the acquisition of the quest. I liked that idea at first, but I guess that some people's tastes differ on this.
Definitely most of the issues are not problems to most people here. However I'd like to see the English version to be successful - or strictly speaking, I'd like to see English version of Gothic 4 or other similar games in the future.

About memory issue, probably it would be safer for the players to use some third party utilities introduced in this thread (http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?&t=336).

[Thaurin]

Yup, I installed that piece of software, too, last night. ;) Seems like a good idea to backup your savegames, in any case. I think the biggest problems the NA release might face are the performance problems (which after tweaking still leave the game stuttering a bit too much to offer fluid enough gameplay), stability (memory leak) and the skill/armour balance thing that I've heard people mention. I haven't levelled enough or spent enough LP to really experience that one myself. Anyway, the last two can definitely be fixed by patched before the NA release, but the performance issues might be worse off...

I hope the NA reviewers won't stumble over that too much.

[Gryniaris]

People!!
Please don't be ignorant. The problem with gothic 3 isnt technical or the wrong performance.
Gothic 1 and 2 was bugy and unstable but there where unique and we can forgive their techical problems.
But THIS IS DEFERENT
It lacks a lot of the feature that makes the Gothic series so unique, like the memorable personalities, attention in detail etc.
And what remains at last?
Only the lush and BIG world with nice gfx and the "tone" of gothic that is still there.
For know not a hundred of patches can make the game like it meant to be.
Only an expansion pack can fix the game but is there anyone to trust them again and pay for it?

[Danicek]

Yes, there're quite a lot of people who enjoy the game even though you think we are ignorant. Calm down a bit and we may actually discuss.

You point out the memorable personalities and attention to detail, I still see it there and a lot of it. There are some other very high qualities in this game (for example it is not easy - how many today's games are two easy, it is very open...). All of these qualities are strongly affected by the buggy character and I would say this is worse than in case of Gothic 1 and 2.

[Corwin]

I'm enjoying G3 just as much as the earlier iterations!! And the say people my age have memory problems!! I well remember the howls when G2 was released!!

[Wulf]

Yep, since patch #2, thoroughly getting deeper into G3, an amazing game, the best ever, the subtlety is awsome, the twists an turns within the dialogue make use of every ounce of grey matter. The dialogue continuation-omissions are mind-boggling, one wrong question and some choices are gone instantly and forever no second chance - - unless you constantly reload to see which direction the alternative didactive progression takes the player - a truely awesome achievement for any rpg, i salute the Piranha Bytes team for sorting the men from the boy gamers! ;)

[Danicek]

i salute the Piranha Bytes team for sorting the men from the boy gamers! ;)

:) Nice way to say it, really.

[Gryniaris]

If i had to find a word for Gothic 3, that will be "massive". But the quality is nowhere to be find out.
The game have a big world but the npcs are all the same. The towns are boring. No vocations, relations between the people, and so on - as in G1 & 2.
I have the sense that they make a huge world but they spent no time for the particularity like they did in the previous games.
Its not circumstantial that in G3 you can lebel up very easily. The balance in the game is very bad and I have no joy for the advance.

[Jabberwocky]

Well, as Ragnar put it in another thread (i'm paraphrasing) : "Most of the Gothic fans from rpgdot are here now, and dare I say MOST are hard-core!" (Italics mine) :biggrin: