How Hardcore Are You?

[magerette]

Got the idea for this thread from a chance remark of dteowner--lamenting that the fact he had played so few games this year might put him in the 'casual gamer' camp. It got me thinking about just what is casual and what is not in gaming. If you've played every rpg since the abacus was invented, but you only play three games a year, are you a serious gamer?

Just what constitutes a hardcore gamer? Is it quantity--playing every game released at all possible opportunities? Is it quality--playing the titles that spark an interest and savoring the best many times over? Is it an obsessive desire to master all forms of cybernetic challenge or a discipline that teaches patience, coordination and skills?

Is there a reality behind the marketing term?

This poll can only scratch the surface of these dilemmas, but please feel free to expand in detail in your comments. :)

[skavenhorde]

A hardcore gamer?... Anyone who can get worked up about a game and whose main hobby is gaming :) It doesn't matter if you buy one game a year or 100. If you have a passion about gaming or even just one game that you always play (though I doubt any gamer only plays one) then I would consider you in the "hardcore".

As to how many games I buy in a year I have no idea. I only know I check the "20+ games bought in a year" box when I register a game.

[dteowner]

My thought was that the type of game figured into the equation as much as the quantity. 5 games in a year was a paltry sum, but that was only half the picture. My "portfolio" for the year includes a roguelike, a TBS, a FPS, a puzzle game, and an indie RPG. Not much that gets a guy "hardcore" points...

I really wanted to vote "serious", but the reality is that I had to go with "moderate", which sort of confirms my earlier thought.

[Jaz]

Hmmm... voted 'serious'. Ten years ago I used to play every shooter, every platformer and every beat'em up that came out as well as the occasional RTS, adventure and CRPG. Since I'm so out of time nowadays, I usually play only the very most wanted new games in the shooter, adventure and CRPG departments... and sometimes not even those. I tend to play less (new) shooters, rather more (new to me) CRPGs and many puzzle and casual games because a) a round of a puzzle game takes less time and b) I find it easier to pause a CRPG for a longer time without losing the immersion effect... can't do the same with shooters. I also replay a lot of my old favorites; I've done it before, of course, but I find myself replaying more and more old shooters because I don't like most of the new ones.

While I'm afraid I bought every single 1997 games for several platforms back then (okay, let's just say 'most'), the only PC game I bought this year was Dark Messiah. I even skipped my absolutely most wanted games (C&C3, UT3, TF2). I did buy my friend's old PS2 and FFX, X-2, XII, Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 along with it, though. Out of all the games I bought this year, I finished Dark Messiah and FFX.... not a great quota if compared to 1997 ;). But I replayed all my old faves: Hexen, Heretic, Hexen II, Doom 1 and 2, the Catacomb series... so while I still play substantially more games than the rest of my family and my friends, I wouldn't call it hardcore gaming nowadays, and I've never been a hardcore CRPGer, anyway (a hardcore p&p RPGeeeer I was, but that's over, too). The urge to play everything new is gone. 'Serious' would probably describe my gaming habit best. Not necessarily my CRPG gaming habit, but my overall gaming behavior.

So...

[HiddenX]

"Serious" - I play only crpgs now (with a few exceptions) . In my younger days it was "Need Counseling".

[xSamhainx]

Serious. While I dont play that regularly anymore (like twice a week), I play for like 5-8 hour stretches when I do. I often replay old faves in leiu of new games. During the rest of the week I'm often reading or talking about games in my spare time. The thing is, with me I cannot just sit and play for an hour or so. Either I'm playing for hours, or not at all, so that kinda makes it tough for me to carve out a huge chunk of time w/ other things going on. I'm going to be playing more regularly now that it looks like my and latest Tigress seem to have parted ways officially.

If I could just find a girl that likes playing games that isnt already in a relationship!

While I dont play as much as I'd like to, but gaming's still a huge part of my life. Like thinking up a cool tattoo series lately of my different characters and personalities and symbols from games I like as part of my left arm sleeve. I think that when all is said and done, the Witcher wolf medallion is going to make the cut!

[Prime Junta]

I'd fall somewhere between "serious" and "pretty hardcore." I'm actually something of a binge gamer -- six months can go by without any gaming, and then I can have two months where it's my main pastime. The climate up here is such that I tend to game a lot more this time of year; in the summertime I travel, cycle, run, and do other outdoorsy stuff.

But if it's dumping sleet, there's an icy wind from the sea, the pavement consists of wet ice covered by slush, and it's dark as the belly of a whale, *and* the gym is in a nuclear fallout shelter, gaming is a lot more attractive.

[txa1265]

I dunno, I have 38 games / reviews in various states of progress (all at least started) on 5 different platforms (Mac / PC / DS / PSP / Wii) for GamerDad/RPGWatch and others right now ... where does that put me ;)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I voted for "moderate", although I have quite a bias towads "serious, but dicerning".

[woges]

Serious but Discerning I suppose - there just isn't the time in the day for all the games that come out these days.

Not to mention the monies.

[crpgnut]

I've always been serious it seems. I only play crpgs. I will play a game that has other genres too, but there has to be one or more crpg elements. I've played Puzzle Quest and Spellforce, but if a real crpg comes out those types of games get dumped fast. The last 3 months have seen a ton of crpgs and crpg-hybrids come out. I've played Puzzle Quest (okay), Parhedros (boring), Mask of the Betrayer (good, but I like low level games best), Eschalon (decent), Gothic 3 (waited til it was cheap), and am currently looking at Avencast (not sure if the crpg elements are really there). So far, Eschalon has gotten the most playing time. Avencast might be good, but the demo is really stupid so I'm not sure I'll ever find out.

For 2007, Oblivion got the most of my gaming hours. Lazarus came in second. I'm looking forward to Vault Dweller's game, although I strongly prefer fantasy to anything else.

[Gallifrey]

Voted "None of the above". I'm not hardcore, nor do I stick to one genre, and I also do not play "top games". I play an assortment of different genres, and what I tend to like is not necessarily what is regarded as the "best" of it's genre.

I rarely finish games, since I play games for the full experience, and more often than not games fizzle out at the end and lose so much of what made the core game excellent.

I also never buy games upon release, often waiting for them to come down in price or pick them up cheap on eBay.

All that said, I do have strong opinions on games and game design, and things I want to see, so there's certainly a vested interest well beyond the casual or even moderate gamer.

I guess I'd consider myself "Moderate And Discerning" really, to use terms from the poll options.

[Corwin]

I dunno, I have 38 games / reviews in various states of progress (all at least started) on 5 different platforms (Mac / PC / DS / PSP / Wii) for GamerDad/RPGWatch and others right now ... where does that put me ;)

Probably in a padded cell run by Gamers Anonymous!! :biggrin:

[txa1265]

Probably in a padded cell run by Gamers Anonymous!! :biggrin:

With someone smacking me with a sea bass and yelling 'say NO more often ... say NO more often' :D

[Dhruin]

Great question and interesting question to debate. I have very limited time and can only manage to play the key CRPGs each year (my definition would vary to others: I play every Spiderweb game but didn't get Hellgate: London, for example), and I play the occasional story-based shooter.

Measuring in hours seems pointless, because I play considerably less than Kayla (although she's disagree) - but she plays more "casual" games (Zoo Tycoon, Rollercoaster Tycoon) and the occasional CRPG...but then, I follow game news avidly and run a gaming site. Surely that is "hardcore"?

Dunno.

Oh, and txa is an alien freak who works simultaneously in multiple parallel dimensions. I couldn't keep track of that many games if it was a full-time occupation with a whole team of support staff.

[Dantre]

"Serious but Discerning" is the closest to my playing habits, as I mostly play RPGs and the occasionnal adventure game. I might play others genres, but all those 100+ hours RPGs take so much of my time, even tough I play 20 hours a week on average, that I don't have any left. I don't replay games much either, again because of lack of time mostly. Neither would I say that I play "top" games; I played Neverend but would never even think of touching Oblivion.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I would play *only* adventure games if there were enough - and enough that fit my taste, since I don't like mystery and horror themes that much.

[magerette]

Everybody's responses quite interesting. It was hard to word the categories as I was trying to get a feel not just for how many games but what kinds and how much. I think one of the lines between casual and serious is whether you choose your games off the shelf because they're well-marketed or you hunt them down yourself because they suit your style, but that was hard to get in the description box--they're quite small. 'Top' was a short word that seemed to indicate both well-known and good, but I suppose it also has a connotative meaning of "best seller. " :)

I personally fall somewhere between Serious but Discerning and Pretty Hardcore as more time has come to be at my disposal. When I worked a fifty hour week, gaming was a guilty pleasure for weekends after my household and family duties. Now it saves my sanity (what's left of it) on the long nights as my body ages and requires less sleep.

I used to play 2 genres, tb strategy and crpg, and I still do mostly, but instead of going to the electronics store and browsing the shelves for whatever they may have in those categories, I now have the entire internet to use for information and often buy games straight from the publisher or from online sites that carry hundreds more games, and this has broadened the field for me. I never would have bought an indie game five years ago, for example, for the simple reason that I would never have seen it. I try games I wouldn't have considered when my time allowance was shorter also, and explore demos and media a lot more. I think there's definitely a corollary between how hardcore you can be and how much available gaming time you have.

[dteowner]

I used to play 2 genres, tb strategy and crpg, and I still do mostly, but instead of going to the electronics store and browsing the shelves for whatever they may have in those categories, I now have the entire internet to use for information and often buy games straight from the publisher or from online sites that carry hundreds more games, and this has broadened the field for me. I never would have bought an indie game five years ago, for example, for the simple reason that I would never have seen it.This is pretty much my "journey" as well.

Doncha miss going into Electronic Boutique and grazing? Even Best Buy has pared down the PC shelves significantly (I remember when it used to be 3 full aisles of PC games and now it's down to 2 short sections). Walking into Gamestop these days is pretty much a waste of time unless you're planning on purchasing one of the ten titles on their 4' wide rack. Mrs dte used to HATE Electronics Boutique because I could graze the racks for literally an hour. Ah, those were the days...

[magerette]

Indeed. I boycott EB since the pimpled adolescent at my local outlet sneered at me after asking for a pc game. He said they were "phasing them out"--which they may have done, since I haven't been back since. But I do remember those shelves fondly--back in 1999 you could browse five aisles of pc games at CompUSA...and find more rpgs than you could afford to buy. And the bargain bin( where I picked up Planescape Torment for ten bucks) was a joy unequaled to this day, except maybe by gogamer's 48 hour madness picks from time to time. ..sigh...

[txa1265]

Even Best Buy has pared down the PC shelves significantly (I remember when it used to be 3 full aisles of PC games and now it's down to 2 short sections).

Our local GameStop has started carrying some PC games again (it was completely non-PC for over a year) ... but I avoid them unless needed.

I was in Best Buy yesterday picking up a couple of games (yeah I know, adding insult to injury ... ) and they had greatly expanded their section and even had temporary area set up for all of the big items - Hellgate, Quake Wars, UT3, and so on ... it was nice to see - the PC area was the biggest section.

[dteowner]

Really, you East Coast hoi polloi always get the best treatment :)

If "old 1997" aisle = 1 unit of nebulous length, then the current console section is 3 x 3/4unl and the current PC section is 2 x 1/4unl (for games, there's also another 2x1/4unl worth of Microsoft, antivirus, educational and home office stuff) at my nearest Best Buy as of 2 weekends ago. Back in the day, if you included all the "other" stuff, Best Buy had 9 full aisles of PC software.

[txa1265]

Really, you East Coast hoi polloi always get the best treatment :)

What was that? Couldn't hear you from my ivory tower ... :D

Definitely the situation is worse than a decade ago ... magerette's CompUSA example is spot on - that used to be worth the 30 minute drive from work for me ...

I am just encouraged to see it moving in a positive direction from a year ago.

[Gallifrey]

Indeed. I boycott EB since the pimpled adolescent at my local outlet sneered at me after asking for a pc game. He said they were "phasing them out"--which they may have done, since I haven't been back since.

The EB here has a respectable sized PC section, as do other EBs that I've been to in my travels. But I had a similar experience with a franchise called Microplay - they said they weren't carrying PC games anymore. They closed down about a year later. Microplay was my first stop for buying PC games, either on-line or in-store, but then they were bought out by someone and cancelled their PC games catalogue.
It worked out well for them (at least in the local shop - not sure how well the francise is doing over all).

But browsing shops for PC games is no longer fun these days. It's usually just disappointing, though sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Dhruin]

I can relate to that. I don't remember the last game I bought at EB - between indie games, Steam and buying boxed from an online retailer and bookended against their dismal selection and service, I just don't bother.

I remember putting a deposit on Arx Fatalis and when I went in to get it, the guy laughed and asserted there was no such game. The comedy factor of the whole ridiculous situation was compounded by having a receipt in my hands for the deposit. That still didn't convince him for quite a while.

But, to be fair, it isn't all their fault. The market has changed and the internet has changed the world. It used to be fun to explore EB - but now, there's nothing for me to discover. Not only are the great games relatively rare but there isn't an RPG release that could catch me by surprise; I could probably name the lead designer and chronicle the development history of most titles I would consider buying. That may not be typical but I imagine most of us here are better informed than we were a decade ago.

[Corwin]

Yeah, I usually have to give my local EB the rundown on what's happening in the rpg/PC world too. Usually when I mention a game it's "Never heard of it."

[dteowner]

You've got a point, gents. I used to get my info from Computer Gaming World magazine, which meant I had little if any warning about new releases until well after the fact. Years ago, I stumbled on the Gone Gold site (turned out Rich lived about a mile from me, small world...), and that took the surprise out of release dates. Then Wiz8 introduced me to RPGDot and that took the mystery out of the games themselves. Not really much reason left to graze the racks, is there?

[Dantre]

I tend to stay away from EB as well, but that's because they focus too much on used games for my taste. Often more than half of the shelves are filled with yellow price stickers, so to me it feels more like a pawn shop. Personally, I'm a bit of a collector. I keep the games I buy even after finishing them, so used games have little appeal to me.

Of course, there's also the fact that some of the games I'm interested in can be hard to find here in the "Belle province" (aka Quebec), and collector editions are even rarer. I never found a copy of "Mazes of Fate", a GBA dungeon crawler, for example; I had to import that one, and did not regret it one bit.

[Dasale]

To play CRPG you are necessary hardcore player but there's different degree. For me :
- I don't follow closely news and what's going to be released. I even recently bought The Witcher collector edition just because I see it in shop and dialog a bit with a shop keeper. For Gothic and NOTR the same happened to me, I just followed an advice of a shopkeeper despite the game was out since many month and the addon sicne few month.
- Once I start play a game I can put ton of hours per week in it, but I never hesitate to stop play a game when it starts bore me and there are long periods I don't play any game.
- I'm cold to anything but CRPG since some years, I'm curious at new design but I don't see many around. If after Doom and during a long time fps shooter definitely fascinated me, this is stopped since many years and no try I made since changed my mind. Too many RTS around not a genre I ever like but I admit I enjoyed Warcraft 3 but never finished it. I don't see any game I found interesting the only exception is Majesty and I regret to have never seen the second.

So I'm hardcore sometimes and only with some CRPG otherwise I'm not all.

[KazikluBey]

I don't see any game I found interesting the only exception is Majesty and I regret to have never seen the second.
No publisher wanted to fund development of a second title back then but Paradox Interactive (developed Europa Universalis and other strategy titles) bought the franchise earlier this year so you're likely to see a sequel within the next couple of years.

[dteowner]

Really? I hadn't heard about that. Way cool, as I spent a ton of time with Majesty and the Northern Expansion. Dhruin will have to pass that bit of info along to Kayla--she'll be ecstatic.

[xSamhainx]

Majesty is in my top ten of all time, love the game!

I was really bummed when Majesty Legends (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/majesty2/news_6026166.html) was deep sixed, now I have hope!

[Dasale]

No publisher wanted to fund development of a second title back then but Paradox Interactive (developed Europa Universalis and other strategy titles) bought the franchise earlier this year so you're likely to see a sequel within the next couple of years.Really? That would be cool if this is achieved. I never got the opportunity to play the extension because I was playing the Mac version and bought the windows version too late and couldn't find anymore the extension in my language.

I know I could perhaps find something through the net but it's really a pain that those older software cannot be bought quickly over internet in digital version.

[Eliaures]

Serious But Discerning, but like someone else stated, I used to be Need Counseling when I was younger. I used to play every genre and at one time I made impulse buys at the software store after browsing the aisles. I don't do that anymore and it's the rare game I buy that hasn't been out for a while.

I'm mostly RPG, both MMO and CRPG with the occasional good other genre game breaking though. I played Bioshock until near the end I got bored and sidetracked to other games. I have played all the Sam & Max adventure series from Tell Tale Games and I can't recommend them enough if you are a fan of the old Sam & Max, Space Quest, Monkey Island, etc. I'm seriously thinking about getting the Orange Box set, but that will be quite some time since I'm deep into The Witcher and still have to finish NWN2 MotB.

As for shopping in person for games, that horse has left the stable long ago. I bought both Bioshock and The Witcher via download and most others I get from Amazon. I miss the old days a little, but I have to admit, getting the stuff almost immediately sure satisfies my addiction.

[Remus]

don't know what my type - moderate?; but surely not hardcore is you define it as playing games 24/7 or always prefering particular genre. I usually go for top rated games and after read some reviews on its - not neccessary must be crpg, shooter, rts or adventure. the important thing it's fun, interesting and entertaining. However i certainly played a lot of shooters (especially in recent years) as i barely have enough time to invest in gaming anymore; so that i even ignored top rated games like the latest Civilization as it's game that requires a lot time and attention on every moves and others details. That's why play shooter more - it's easier to pick up from last session and put down...

[Rodyn]

Checked Serious But Discerning as well. The description fits my current playing style perfectly. Which at the moment only includes NWN2+MotB and Morrowind because the closest game store is about 800km away and when I left none of the current crop was released yet (Gothic 3, Witcher...), but I'm nevertheless having fun playing through the NWN2 expansion right now. Any new PC games I pick up nowadays will most likely be C/Rpg's since I have little time to play other genres and it is still my favourite.

Definitely belonged in the Hardcore section years ago but, let's just say it, after highschool and college gaming time tends to decrease a lot. When I feel like taking a total break from things like "thinking" or I have some friends over I dust off the old SNES or play an emulator on the PC...games like Zelda, Secret of Evermore and of course Donkey Kong are still my favourite console games. :)

[Oriz0r]

I'm not a hardcore gamer, Magertte, and it's hard to say what makes one a "hardcore gamer" indeed...so instead, I'll provide two examples of IRC buddies of mine that I know that I would definitely describe as <insert discussed phrase here in quotes :P>:
(And you'll note that my definition involves level of skill like you suggest is possible)

The first, and well, the "harder" one really, by a long shot, is this guy who plays everything and anything, and does it well. Usually when I ask him about his progress in some game, he'll tell me already beat it, and dryly spout off a complaint or two regarding that game. He plays it all... Shooters, RPGs, RTSs, TBSs, you name it.

The other guy is one who's mainly into war games...the thing that makes him hardcore is comprised of two or three things : He finds tons of mods for things he likes and plays them. Some of the mods he's into are ones that make AI smarter, or just make the game harder... and more importantly, he beats em.

[Dasale]

Hardcore gamer : More than 20 hours of play per week, that's the official definition!:biggrin: This means I don't see how any CRPG gamer could escape from the horrible tag of "hardcore gamer". Ok ok, that definition made me laugh but the reason seems to have some sense. Above 20 hours, gaming clearly eat a significant part of your time.

[Oriz0r]

Nah pal, it isn't. 20 hours (Or say even 15, for the sake of a lack-of-a-silly-argument) of play per week turns you into . . . ready? . . . a -gamer-. Because what is a gamer? It is a person who spends a good chunk of his time and resources on games. (Besides, time is almost never a function that stands on its own in order to make a point...pardon my extreme example to support this, but what if I'm some 7 year old girl who plays Rainbow Adventures or whatever? Well, actually that's a bad example, I think I'd totally call my would-be daughter a hardcore gamer if she did that.)

Now, a -hardcore- gamer... *goes for the gold*... is someone whose main interest in life is gaming, and playing games is the bane of his or her existence.

[Dasale]

Mmm I made this fun quote not because I share the point of view but because I found it fun in the context of the topic. I don't care at all of this, look at statistics and you get hardcore tv watcher, hardcore eater, hardcore chat user, hardcore music listener, we are all hardcore worker, there are some hardcore reader, hardcore talker (women I mean :p ) and so on. Hardcore gamer isn't more bad if you ask me.

Anyway the evil, and mental sickness is to play MMORPG not CRPG. Everybody know that.

[Oriz0r]

Like I said, there isn't always a correlation between time spent, and being "hardcore". Did you even read what I typed.

[purpleblob]

only moderate player here... wont have much time once i start honours in feb :X

[Maylander]

I play whenever possible. Either I sit in front of my computer at work, developing computer systems, or I sit in front of my computer at home playing games. That still doesn't mean I play games in every genre - I play a few strategy games, but other than that it's RPGs exclusively. So basically, I end up replaying every RPG I enjoy a lot of times, hehe. :)

[StackSmasher]

Where is the "I've called in sick to work or taken vacation days to play a game" option? :biggrin: That was me before we had my daughter. Now, it's 'Pretty Hardcore' and, on occasion, 'Need Counseling' as I will go without sleep for the right game.

[Arpyjee]

It's sad that the retail outlets are so disconnected from the roots of RPGs these days. Apparently, if it doesn't look and play like Oblivion, STALKER, Bioshock, Crysis or FEAR, then it's not in stock !

But we vote with our purchases, and if the CRPG genre starts emulating the uber-realistic FPS genre and console games, then we can kiss the party based isometric classics like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Fallout, Planescape and Arcanum goodbye forever (unless we start supporting the indie CRPG scene).

[Malifax]

I went with "pretty hardcore".

When I start a PC RPG I always finish it. I consider this alarming myself, but I am a completionist, and I hate to judge a game thinking it may get a little better the deeper I go into it. There are bunches of RPGS that I get about 60-70% of the way through and then activate cheat codes, walkthroughs, or editors so I can just get through it quick and end it.

I usually game about 15-20 hours a week. When I am not at work or with the kids/family doing whatever, I am gaming. It is always my first avenue of recreation if the option is available to me. Other than RPGS I play adventure, sports, shooters and stratgey games on PC. On 360 I play fighters, sports, platformers, and action/adventures.

Gaming is definitely an obsession for me, but I am not quite "addicted"......yet. :lol:

[magerette]

Welcome to the boards, Malifax. Thank god I am not cursed with completism to the same degree--I can be compulsive at times, but I've always been able to lay a bad game down, which is a very good thing considering how many bad games I've tried to play. :)

It's sad that the retail outlets are so disconnected from the roots of RPGs these days. Apparently, if it doesn't look and play like Oblivion, STALKER, Bioshock, Crysis or FEAR, then it's not in stock !

It's extremely sad, however I like to look at the money invested in these games by the big devs and publishers as technological R & D that may some day be utilized in the more "niche" RPG market, but that the devs catering to that market(indies and mostly smaller studios) couldn't afford to initiate themselves.

Developing affordable, intelligent middleware, and mainstreaming it could make it possible for better built and more appealing small games, which would in turn increase the audience for RPGs, or that's my hope anyway.