Pinnacle Games - 18 Genre-Defining Games @ Gamerhelp

[Dhruin]

The Bethblog is linking to a piece at Gamerhelp entitled Pinnacle Games - 18 Games That Define Their Genre (http://www.gamerhelp.com/article_viewer.cfm?article_id=131040)...and the definitive RPG is...
Fallout
Most RPG titles have you duking it out as a knight or a mage in a fantasy setting rife with clichéd monsters like dragons and orcs and trolls, oh my! But not so Interplays Fallout, a breakthrough RPG title that was set in a memorable setting: post-nuclear holocaust Earth. The narrative drive of the story was nothing new--a 'chosen one' ventures forth to save the world--but the presentation was something else: dark, gritty and visceral, the stark landscape of the atomically cleansed landscape was as inhospitable as it was compelling. Add in the unique S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stat system, the interesting, varied mission types and compelling narrative plot and you've got one of the finest PC-RPG experiences ever created.
Strangely, they go on to suggest "hardcore" fans might lament their choice of Fallout over Oblivion.
Honourable mentions go to PS:T and Oblivion. As an aside, The Adventure choice goes to Quest for Glory 1.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=7482)

[Brother None]

What's with those unreleased "Worthy Heir" picks? How can you call Worthy Heir for an unreleased game.

[guenthar]

For me Ultima 7 would be the genre-defining game for rpgs with Fallout, PS:T, other Ultima games, and the Might and Magic games as honorable mentions.

[elikal]

A most questionable list. Fallout was great, but there can be little doubt Ultima 7 was the pinnacle of RPG, and others would be worth mentioning. WOW as the best MMO? ZOMG! So many quite strange decisions.

[Acleacius]

Surely oblivion should be moved to the Action list while adding Ultima 7 at least somewhere in the RPG list if not the top spot.

[Maylander]

Hmm, pinnacle games and games that define their genres? Not the same really, so they need to choose what they're going for. A pinnacle game is a game central to the genre, that has inspired others to make such games, and have features that have been used in countless other games. A game that simply defines the genre, is one representing all the good/bad sides of the genre.

I've always felt that the BG series was far more central to the RPG genre than Fallout, since it's more mainstream than Fallout (which is more of a cult game). How many games has there really been that's taken inspiration from Fallout? We seen any non-combat RPGs lately? Any games where you can be clever and complete it in no time? As far as I'm concerned, Fallout is relatively unique, and a cult classic more than a game central to the RPG genre.

On the other hand, the article mentions "games that define the genre" - and Fallout certainly represents everything good in the RPG genre. So it all depends on what you're going for really - pinnacle games or simply a game that defines its genre? For me, the two are far from the same.

[txa1265]

Hmm, pinnacle games and games that define their genres?

That was *exactly* what I was thinking ... c'mon guys, make up your mind ...

Because they also waver all over the place with the 'Worthy Heirs' from released games, to upcoming games, to ones still too early to tell, to games they wish would be made ...

[woges]

Well the rts should be starcraft surely?

[txa1265]

Well the rts should be starcraft surely?

I agree - Company of Heroes is everyone's darling right now, but including it lacks historical perspective in my opinion.

[woges]

I'll have to admit that I haven't got CoH maybe I'll check it out sometime; I doubt it though, with SC2 on the way and not having too much time on my hands.

[txa1265]

I'll have to admit that I haven't got CoH maybe I'll check it out sometime; I doubt it though, with SC2 on the way and not having too much time on my hands.

It is REALLY good, as is the expansion ... but 'genre defining'? I dunno ...

[woges]

It is REALLY good, as is the expansion ... but 'genre defining'? I dunno ...

Is it better than homeworld?

[txa1265]

Is it better than homeworld?

I dunno ... I may be an ancient gamer but am relatively new to RTS and never played Homeworld. They are not a preferred genre, but I seem to be playing a lot of them lately (writing up reviews for Supreme Commander and Company of Heroes expansions now ... )

[woges]

I'm not really "into" them but I did enjoy Homeworld - it has a wonderful pace and atmosphere for an rts game.

[BillSeurer]

No one game "defines" a genre. All newer games build on the legacy of older games and any really good game is going to have learned from the failures and successes of those older games.

[Acleacius]

Good point Maylander, maybe move Fallout to honorable mention and BG2 to #1 would be much better.
Ok I am a big dope I didn't even see the bethlog, so this explains how fallout3k got on the list, Gamerhelp is just shilling to get F3k name associated with the greats, sham!

[woges]

No one game "defines" a genre. All newer games build on the legacy of older games and any really good game is going to have learned from the failures and successes of those older games.

I think you're wrong there because archetypes do exist. If you take rts games as an example that is really Dune 2, but, Starcraft set up the 3 races and play-style format that the genre has latched on to.

Shakespeare I believe is used a lot as far as story archetypes; although he based a lot of his work on myths also. Another book rich in archetypes is the bible.

edit:

Rpgs are filled with archetypes that define the genre.

another edit:

Actually I guess it's how you take the word defining. As in the "best" or the "archetype" - I would say archetype but that's just me.

another another edit:

I maybe in error with SC being the game that had 3 races as I think Dune2 had 3 races anyway (been a long time since I played).

[BillSeurer]

StarCraft inherited a lot from WarCraft 2 which inherited from WarCraft which undoubtedly inherited from other games before it. I don't think that any of them "define" the genres of RTS games, though.

[woges]

I think Dune 2 has pretty much everything most rts games have to this day though. Such as; the base building, tech tree, map, 3 races, theres a lot that's similar there. The only real new thing in modern rts games is online play most of the time.

[woges]

Tsk, I forgot fog of war. Isn't Dune 2 the first fog of war game as well?

[Arpyjee]

Apparently, it isn't in Bethblog's commercial interest to have BG2 even mentioned.

[woges]

Ahh the title rather gives it away "highest point of development or achievement" basically this is a best of list then - not defining games really.

[JDR13]

I stopped reading after the first entry when I saw they had "God of War" as the pinnacle of the "action" genre.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Company of Heroes ? An ideal title for a fantasy game, but this ?!

Anyway, It's not my kind of games anyway. I don't like strategy games at all which more or less resemble the real world.

And about God of War I thought similar things ... I didn't even know this game !

[Jaz]

I agree with the mention of Tetris as both the pinnacle of its genre and a genre-defining game. IMO all other games mentioned are just a random selection. There are some games I like and others I don't like, but none of the winning games except Tetris strike me as being revolutionary for the genre they're assigned to in this article.

[bjon045]

Pools of Radiance defined the whole D&D game genre for me. If you think about it, the combat system is still pretty much used today despite being in real time. POR has aged well and still playable for me even on the high resolution displays we have these days. Castle wolf and Doom defined the FPS shooter genre and then games like Elder Scrolls merely merged genres (arguably creating a new genre).

Someone mentioned Dune 2, it's the only RTS game that I have completed 3+ times in order to see all the different endings. Dune 1 was a better game but it's dune 2 that all RTS games borrow from in my opinion.

[Jaz]

I also think Dune 2 lead the way. Dune 1 was a totally different type of game (primarily an adventure following the story of the first Dune novel IIRC, though it also had its strategy game elements), and it was developed by a different studio. Dune 2 concentrated on the RTS gameplay and paved the way for C&C.

[woges]

Well it's not too bad a list I suppose. I've seen worse and I wouldn't be able to tell you some of them like... sport games.

[Lucky Day]

I have to agree with you there, its not a bad list considering. Quest for Glory over Myst is an interesting selection. BG, Wizardry or Ultima 3 would have been my choice as a defining RPG but that depends what era you are in. Morrowinders may be the current trend but its certainly polite to pick Fallout. There is no arcade type category, surprisingly, Tetris is listed as a puzzle game. I would think Pac-Man's wife would shove everyone else to the side be they Invaders from outer space or bugs navigating their way through mushrooms. No simulation games either: Simcity, Sims, Flight Simulator, nothing. I guess its dead.