RPGWatch - RPG of the Year Poll

[Dhruin]

Time to move on to our RPG of the Year poll.
First, Eschalon: Book 1 was the winner of our Indie RPG of the Year poll, taking the honours in a landslide victory with 77% of the vote. Congratulations to Basilisk Games and I think many of us look forward eagerly to see what Book 2 holds in store.
Soldak's Depths of Peril came second and Spiderweb's Geneforge 4 was third. I think it's worth noting the comments that this was a landmark year for indies, all around.

So, voting for the RPG of the Year is open, based on a field selected by our editorial team. Go to it!
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=7578)

[Maximous]

Many of the Indie games really are great. RPGwatch and Gametunnel.com really keep abreast of great Indie games out there.

[Generic Guest]

That poll has been rigged. There is NO WAY Hellgate would get so many votes. This is not my fanboyism talking but seriously, its IMPOSSIBLE.

I can only feel pity for those poor misguided fools who have such bad taste to like something so generic, commercialized, shallow etc.

[Jaz]

Deducting guest votes and just counting registered member votes, current interim results (Dec. 26, 21:05 local time) are...

Mass Effect - 4 votes
The Witcher - 38 votes
Two Worlds - 1 vote
Hellgate: London - 0 votes
NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer - 3 votes
Eschalon: Book 1 - 6 votes

There seems to be quite a voting bot race going on.

[JDR13]

I'd like to vote, but the game that I thought was the best RPG this year wasn't even included.

Imho S.T.A.L.K.E.R., bugs and all, was the best game in what was otherwise a somewhat weak year for CRPG's.

[magerette]

Thanks for counting Jaz. :)

So JDR, I take it you gave up on The Witcher?

[JDR13]

So JDR, I take it you gave up on The Witcher?


Not at all, it seems like a pretty good game. I just have so many games lined up right now that I'm not going to rush out and buy The Witcher, it didn't impress me enough to do that. I'm close to finally finishing Gothic 3, and after that I'm going to catch up on some FPS and RTS games I've been waiting to play.

[Prime Junta]

Um... so, if you don't actually get around to playing the major RPG's in a given year, that makes the year "somewhat weak for RPG's?" Ooookay, I guess...

[JDR13]

Um... so, if you don't actually get around to playing the major RPG's in a given year, that makes the year "somewhat weak for RPG's?" Ooookay, I guess...


LOL, ok I didn't realize you were psychic and knew what games I had or hadn't played.

When the poll includes only 3 full-length CRPG's, 1 of which isn't even close to "RPGotY" material, then yes I'd say it was a weak year for CRPG's. I didn't say RPG's.

[Asbjoern]

I think it has something to do with quantity/quality. There has perhaps not been released that many CRPG's compared to for example 2006, but the quality of the games have been considerably higher than NWN2, Gothic 3 etc. of 2006.
So no, this hasn't been a weak year for CRPG's. The Witcher is more or less singlehandedly sufficient to make it a great year for CRPG's.

[JDR13]

Eh?

Exactly which of those games this year were "considerably" better than Gothic 3 and NWN2?

Hellgate London and Two Worlds certainly weren't, The Witcher is debatable.

[Altair]

World of Warcraf - my opinion
I know its a mmorpg......:salute:

[dteowner]

WOW wasn't released this year. For that matter, was there even a WOW expansion released this year?

[magerette]

The Burning Crusade. Sold millions, I believe. :)

Released early in 07, like January, though so it's been awhile.

[Brother None]

The Burning Crusade. Sold millions, I believe. :)

Yeah, one of the only ones. It was a very weak year for PC sales, to be honest. Market is really unhealthy right now.

Your av is terrible, magerette.

[KazikluBey]

In the USA during November the two AAA titles Crysis and Unreal Tournament that were released during the month sold only 87 000 and 34 000 copies for the PC, respectively.

Hardly what the publishers were hoping for, I think.

[Dhruin]

I'm not necessarily buying that it was a weak year - we just don't have good data. To my mind, Crysis proves what happens when your best claim to fame is that the game is so advanced, it kicks sand in the face of Cray supercomputers. And UT3 potentially shows the market is more competitive and repackaging UT2 doesn't cut it. We'll never really know but a half-decent tracking system would be a good start.

[Benedict]

Eh?

Exactly which of those games this year were "considerably" better than Gothic 3 and NWN2?

Hellgate London and Two Worlds certainly weren't, The Witcher is debatable.

The Witcher and MoTB, by a long long way. The witcher's in the same league and with a reasonably similar feel to the first two gothics (or dare I say it, better even) and MoTB had one of the best and most atmospheric plots I've come across in a computer game for ages. I couldn't finish the original nwn2 campaign at all by comparison, utterly bland and insipid. I gave up part way through gothic 3 as well, I tried my best to like it but it just didn't really engage me, a huge disappointment after the brilliance of the first two.

Not played hellgate (and am very unlikely to) or Two Worlds.

[Benedict]

NWN2 didn't impress me much. The story was better than that of NWN1, but that doesn't say much. It is a good RPG, but it is totally an rails in two respects: There is no exploration and no real diffent outcome based on your decision. MotB may be a different beast, but after playing NWN2 I had no nerves to try it.
.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I really enjoyed it and just couldn't be bothered slogging my way through nwn2. I tried it (since i had to buy the bloody thing anyway), but it just didn't hold my interest at all. Within about 15 minutes of starting MoTB I was sucked in though, interesting characters, locations, good plot, significant choices, so much atmosphere that I forgot I was playing on the nwn2 engine at all.

[JDR13]

The Witcher and MoTB, by a long long way. The witcher's in the same league and with a reasonably similar feel to the first two gothics (or dare I say it, better even) and MoTB had one of the best and most atmospheric plots I've come across in a computer game for ages. I couldn't finish the original nwn2 campaign at all by comparison, utterly bland and insipid. I gave up part way through gothic 3 as well, I tried my best to like it but it just didn't really engage me, a huge disappointment after the brilliance of the first two.
.


I won't compare MoTB because that's not even a full game by itself, but I don't think The Witcher is anywhere near the level of the first 2 Gothic games.

When is the last time you tried to play Gothic 3? Reason I ask is because it's come a long way from being the buggy crap it was when it was first released, almost an entirely different game now with the latest patch. With what the coming 1.6 patch promises, I think it will be truly excellent.

Hellgate London is pretty bad by CRPG standards, it shouldn't even be considered for any awards. Two Worlds isn't bad, but it's not RPG of the Year material imo.

[Brother None]

I'm not necessarily buying that it was a weak year - we just don't have good data. To my mind, Crysis proves what happens when your best claim to fame is that the game is so advanced, it kicks sand in the face of Cray supercomputers. And UT3 potentially shows the market is more competitive and repackaging UT2 doesn't cut it. We'll never really know but a half-decent tracking system would be a good start.

Well, IGN discusses it here (http://pc.ign.com/articles/842/842883p1.html) and what they say is pretty worrying:
What's most troubling about the PC market is the sales numbers. The best selling game in North America, according to NPD numbers, was the World of Warcraft expansion pack Burning Crusade. That was the only game on the list that sold over a million PC copies this year and its base product World of Warcraft the only other game to pass a half-million sold. The next best seller, The Sims 2: Seasons, was down around 300k. And check this, of the 31 games that managed to sell over 100,000 copies this year, 21 of them were released in previous years and 11 of them were Sims products. Command & Conquer 3, Supreme Commander, Lord of the Rings Online, BioShock were the only games released this year to sell over 100k that weren't Sims or World of Warcraft related according to NPD.

That's pretty damn worrying.

[Elwro]

Doesn't NPD ignore sales of downloadable versions of the games?

[Arhu]

If I were to take it guess, it would be that sales shifted to WoW (no time/money for other offline games) and consoles. Sure, consoles have always been around and more units were sold for those platforms, but especially the XBox is direct PC games competition due to similar hardware and exclusivity things going on.

[Brother None]

Doesn't NPD ignore sales of downloadable versions of the games?

Yeah.

IGN mentions that skews the numbers, and it does. But do you think purchasing through downloads is really so big now that it'd significantly alter the numbers? I have my doubts.

[KazikluBey]

NPD also doesn't take anything outside of North America into account (don't remember if Canada was in their numbers) and I'm under the impression that Europe is much less skewed towards console game sales than the USA.

[Benedict]

I won't compare MoTB because that's not even a full game by itself, but I don't think The Witcher is anywhere near the level of the first 2 Gothic games.

When is the last time you tried to play Gothic 3? Reason I ask is because it's come a long way from being the buggy crap it was when it was first released, almost an entirely different game now with the latest patch. With what the coming 1.6 patch promises, I think it will be truly excellent.

Hellgate London is pretty bad by CRPG standards, it shouldn't even be considered for any awards. Two Worlds isn't bad, but it's not RPG of the Year material imo.

I thought you hadn't played the witcher yet? I've been really pleasantly surprised by it, even by comparison to all the hype. It's definitely different from the gothics in terms of gameplay and combat, but had a few things that really reminded me of it. The slightly darker atmosphere, the sarcasm in the conversations, the fact that loot upgrades are condensed to a few major sea changes in quality rather than an endless stream of minor improvements that you never really notice, the sense of a living world and real characters.

It doesn't admittedly have the wonderful open world of gothic where you can wander with the accompanying thrill of wandering into the wrong place and dying (and sometimes running in and out and coming back with some powerful loot), or the seamless world for walking in and out of buildings etc, but it's got other features that are better (the alchemy system in particular makes for interesting play, the lack of healing potions that heal you instantly requiring you to plan your health better etc).

And MoTB may not be a full game but in so far as it's shorter it's only because they've taken out the endless grind of crap you normally have to slog through so if anything it's a bonus having it shorter but more interesting.

Sounds like Gothic 3 is well worth revisiting anyway, I'll check it out again once the 1.6 patch is out :)

[woges]

Well Crysis and UT3 bombed, I suspect, due to "better" shooters being released just before them. Orange Box and COD:4 I'm sure sold decently. Bioshock, I would have though, sold ok as well. It is perhaps the Xbox 360 that has taken a lot of PC game sales having a lot of the same games and a large user base.

There are many unique titles on consoles as well and the PC isn't really offering the same at the moment. I'm sure Blizzard's next title (Starcraft 2) will sell well. Personally, I'm not buying 5-10 shooters a year to keep the industry happy.

[Brother None]

Bioshock, I would have though, sold ok as well. It is perhaps the Xbox 360 that has taken a lot of PC game sales having a lot of the same games and a large user base.

BioShock sold over a million, and apparently only between 100k and 300k of those sales were PC, the rest is Xbox360.

[magerette]

Yeah, one of the only ones. It was a very weak year for PC sales, to be honest. Market is really unhealthy right now.

Your av is terrible, magerette.

She was temporary(and too big). Still looking but I was tired of the Bruxa. :)

PC sales may have been down, still I think there were a lot of good releases this year. From the "what's coming in 2008" articles, I'd say we may look back on this one and be quite nostalgic.

[woges]

She was temporary(and too big). Still looking but I was tired of the Bruxa. :)

PC sales may have been down, still I think there were a lot of good releases this year. From the "what's coming in 2008" articles, I'd say we may look back on this one and be quite nostalgic.

I don't think anything came out this year that I'll be playing in a year or 2 - so that's not a good sign heh.

[Dhruin]

BioShock sold over a million, and apparently only between 100k and 300k of those sales were PC, the rest is Xbox360.

That's a huge margin of error, so which is it? I just don't think we have the data.

[Brother None]

That's a huge margin of error, so which is it? I just don't think we have the data.

We never have full data. But our incomplete data this year looks more worrying than incomplete data the past years. The only big unknown factor is downloaded games. Europe hasn't changed as a market over the past years.

[Elwro]

Yeah.

IGN mentions that skews the numbers, and it does. But do you think purchasing through downloads is really so big now that it'd significantly alter the numbers? I have my doubts.
I don't know, but in The Witcher discussions here and there I frequently see people mentioning they bought the downloadable version. This is the feeling I get, no hard numbers of course :D But I thought e.g. Steam was a player sufficiently big that its exclusion from NPD reports would be worth mentioning.

[Shagnak]

I think it would be significant. A heap of people use Steam. Most gamers I know in RL have used it in some capacity this year. Hell, in the last year I've bought more games off Steam and similar platforms than off-the-shelf boxed games and I'm sure that this is the case for plenty of others with broadband internet.