How do I beat this plant??

[Jabberwocky]

Just entered the swamps for the first time last night. Came across several plants that are not listed in the Bestiary. I can't remember their names, but they are not Archspores and not Echinopsae... I think they began with a 'C' perhaps???

Anyway, I died 4 times trying to fight just one of them. They kill me with about 5-6thorn shots, and quicker if I get close enough to use a sword. I'm trying to light them up with Igni but no luck - they have more range than I do it seems. At the time I had approx 5 bronze talents devoted to Igni including some level II. Since then I leveled up and maxed out the sign (for bronze), but haven't tried it on the plants yet. I don't see it making that much difference but maybe...

...As far as my character build, I'm pretty much maxed out on bronze talents except for a few sword skills.

Can anyone tell me the obvious answer and point out what a lame Witcher I must be?? - Thanks! :lol:

[KazikluBey]

It's the Coccacidium, a trophy plant that can spawn in several locations. I think it's a named archespore. Anyway, pump up on potions (swallow, tawny, blizzard (preferably with the rubedo and nigredo active substances)), run in, hit it with Igni until it ignites and hack away. Repeat the last two steps until the monster is killed.

[skavenhorde]

Are you sure their plants. The only plants that I remember from the swamps were Archespores and those were a real pain in the butt to kill. If they pop out of the ground then their Archespores. What I always do when faced with thorn throwing plants that can kill you in a few hits is buff out with potions, sharpen those swords with diamond dust and attack. If more than one are attacking you make sure you position yourself between the plants. So that one plant will hit the other with its thorns instead of you. That helped a lot. Strong attack, Igni, potions and diamond dust did the trick for me.

Anyways if you find out their name let me know I'm curious now if there is something I'm forgetting :)

Edit: Thanks Kaz, I remember that sucker...It still is an archespore though just a heck of a lot meaner.

[VPeric]

You could also wait a chapter and kill it later. It's easier with a bunch of silver talents under your belt. ;)

[Jabberwocky]

Okay, thanks guys, now I don't feel so bad. Yes, that's the name definitely - Coccacidum. Why is it not listed in the Bestiary? (No, my own is not complete - I'm referring to the one on the Witcher Wiki) Oh well.. for now I just scream and run past them.. maybe I'll get up the nerve to try again later. ;)

[xSamhainx]

wow, Jabberwocky, we're still on the same page w/ the Witcher. I just hit the swamps yesterday, and ran into the very same thing, in fact I was killed by one of those things.

I wasnt really prepared tho, I kinda hit the scene with a pretty full inventory and no potions, just trying to do a little exploring during the day and maybe knock out a simple drowner quest or two and gather some herbs. Munch on a chicken leg or something if I need it, you know. Speaking of which, I accidentally ate a Drowner brain (blech!), which didnt bode well for my toxin level.

But yeah, night fell, things got a little crazy and I got turned around, tripped over one of those plant things and it was over before it even began!

I'm back in Vizima now, I'm going to hit my stockpile and fire up some potions and get ready to hit the swamp in earnest.

[Cm]

I agree with wait a few levels on that one plant. I have also found fire (forget how to spell it, Ingi?) helps. If you can easily kill the Anchespore you should be close to ready to take that one on. There are three levels of these plants, and the Cocc.. one is the top level.
I also suggest you move in close to them, it seemed to me I could do more damage and take less damage when I was standing at the base of the stem. I may be wrong and just imagined it, but it sure felt like my hits were more consistent when I got right on top of them.

[GhanBuriGhan]

Running past them is my strategy. Far too expensive (in terms of potions etc.) to take them out so far.

[crpgnut]

I was able to kill it by using Igni. My range with Igni was just a little farther than its range with thorns. I'd rush up to it so it'd come out of the ground then run just out of its range and fire a charged Igni spell. You must have ranged level two with Ignite under the Igni sign for this to work. If your igni shoots like a fireball, then it's charged.

I'm in Chapter 4 now which is a complete change of pace from the rest of the game. It's kinda like an interlude chapter.

[POLYGON]

Swallow, Go next to it, Fire 2 Ignis, run away but don't make it disappear in the ground just go out of the range of thorns, wait until your Endurance and Vitality is full then repeat
4 times maximum it will die, I did on hard on the first time I entered the Swamp , I needed the cash.

[Corwin]

Tough little sucker; I beat it first time with about 2 HP's to spare. I found the cave that's full of the plants much tougher as I'd regularly get caught in a three way crossfire!!

[skavenhorde]

Tough little sucker; I beat it first time with about 2 HP's to spare. I found the cave that's full of the plants much tougher as I'd regularly get caught in a three way crossfire!!

You mean the cave from the first act? Yea, those were a real pain. I don't know how many times I died trying to do that quest. Oh yea and don't use the pain causing grease(don't remember the name) like I did, it doesn't do anything to plants DUH!!!. Took me awhile to catch onto that fact in the first act.

[Jabberwocky]

Well, thanks to all for the suggestions. I took care of the quest necessities in the Swamp and now I'm back in Vizima to persue some newly opened up things there.

I now have the Igni skills pretty much topped out for my current level. We'll see how that does the next time I go into the swamp...

Incedentally this brings me to another question:
Why can't I charge up my spells?
I know the skill tree says something about right-click and hold to charge up spells, but I can't do it - mine just fire the moment I right click - doesn't matter if I'm holding the button down or not. Is this normal or is something wrong?

[Prime Junta]

That sounds odd. It does work for me: when I right-click and hold, a little elongated diamond appears at the bottom of the screen and starts filling up; when I release before it hits the right edge, there's a bigger whoomp.

[skavenhorde]

I've had difficulties with the power up spells or swords. Especially right after I swing a few times then try to fire up my spell. Sometimes I'm holding it for a few seconds and nothing happens. Then I let go and try again and it works.

With the full power up the diamond can be tricky. I'll power it up all the way and then release just as soon as it hits the edge of the triangle. Instead of a powered up spell or sword swing I get the non powered up version. I find if I hold it for about half a second after it is fully charged it will release the powered up spell or sword attack.

So anytime I'm powering up I make sure I got that sucker all the way up and hold for a heart beat, then release. Works for me till they patch it.

[Jabberwocky]

Wow. I honestly don't know what you guys are talking about.... I've never seen any kind of diamond shape on-screen.

Okay, just to be sure I've got the ability in the first place - I currently have all availible bronze skills in Aard except for "gust."

I have all availible bronze skills in Igni except "harm's way II."

There are two icons on the magic skill tree called "Student" and "Apprentice." Clicking or hovering over the "Apprentice" icon pops up the explanation of the right-click and hold thing. Talents are not applied to this icon best I can tell, it's just there to signify the start of that particular branch of the skill tree.

Either I'm just missing something very obvious, or something's broke.

I'm wondering if it could be a mouse compatibility issue? - I'm using a Logitech MX 610 cordless laser.

[Acleacius]

The Alt Attack Icon doesn't appear on screen till you press and hold, just like the Fist fighting.
It's on the bottom of the screen center, try to test it when no enemies are around like at night to get used to it.

[Prime Junta]

There are two icons on the magic skill tree called "Student" and "Apprentice." Clicking or hovering over the "Apprentice" icon pops up the explanation of the right-click and hold thing. Talents are not applied to this icon best I can tell, it's just there to signify the start of that particular branch of the skill tree.

Bingo: you do have to apply talents to those icons in order to get the charge-up.

However, unlike the others, you don't have to have the talent to get the others in the tree, which is a bit confusing.

[Jabberwocky]

I'm sure you know what you're talking about PJ, but at the same time, I seem to remember clicking on those icons when I still had talents to spare, and they did nothing. I'll have to check this but I sure thought they were not 'spendable'.

[Cm]

Jabber, you are going to have to read all the branches and see which ones let you boost spell, increase power of, etc. Once you have enough of the right ones you will see the boost diamond. It is a matter of having the right amount of endurance available, the skill tree filled in sufficiently for the spell boosts, and the strength and stamina high enough to do it. It is a combo of skills that makes it show up.

[Jabberwocky]

Okay, thanks. I'll see what happens, but It'll be a little while now as I lost my recent save games when I installed the patch and now I have to back-track quite a ways... :(

[GothicGothicness]

I have no problems with these plants, acctually I hardly even use potions in the witcher pretty easy so far, even if I play on hard, just use the fast combat style against this plant ( it'll take a long time to kill it ) but it'll not be able to attack you, unless you miss a combo, so I finished it off without HP loss and potions.. and gramps and that dog even survived the fight.

[Lurking Grue]

Wait! You're saying there is a plant thingy in the swamps that's tougher than the Archspore?! Urk, thankfully I have not run into that thing yet. In chapter 2, with only bronze talents, killing the Archspore was hard. Vital to my winning the battle was the "haste" potion (can't remember its name) and Swallow (healing potion), of course. If you don't have Igni high enough, blast it with Aard (AKA force push) to get an opening before getting in close and hacking it with all your might (i.e. using the strong style).

The Archspore is a mini-boss of sorts, as it gives you a trophy once you beat it - are you sure the Coccadicium (sp?) is not the same thing after all?

[VPeric]

The C-plant is the one with the trophy; it's a boss version of an archespore. I'd say you got a bit confused there. :)

[Lurking Grue]

Ah, I see. My bad.

Well, a weed's a weed, no matter what you call it. ;)

[Jabberwocky]

I have no problems with these plants, acctually I hardly even use potions in the witcher pretty easy so far, even if I play on hard, just use the fast combat style against this plant ( it'll take a long time to kill it ) but it'll not be able to attack you, unless you miss a combo, so I finished it off without HP loss and potions.. and gramps and that dog even survived the fight.

Well, I must have missed a combo then, because it throttled me soundly when I was up close and personal. I find it hard to imagine you got up to the rootstock without taking at least one hit from the thorns.... Not saying you didn't, but I don't think it'll happen with me controlling things.

[Cm]

I have to take my hat off to anyone who managed to beat them on the first swamp visit without potions and no hp loss. ;) They killed me the first time out as I underestimated what a simple weed could do to me. :lol:

[GothicGothicness]

Well, I must have missed a combo then, because it throttled me soundly when I was up close and personal.

hmm, you have to be very fast, I've done it with other harder to kill enemies too, with fast style, keep hitting, you cannot break the attack chain even once or it'll have enough time to hit you. ( It doesn't work with group or tough attack style ) try it! ( of course it doesn't work if there is multiple enemies )

[Jabberwocky]

That's how I beat the Echinops in chapter 1. But I found that once this cocca... hit me, it damaged me enough to prevent me from ever getting back into an effective rythym. - So, you're right, at my current level, it's either perfection or death.

Right now I think I'll choose my third option - scream and run away, and live to fight another... higher level or two. ;)

[magerette]

JW-Bummer about losing your saves!!! I'm with you on the power-ups --I never could get some of them to work and sometimes it did seem like you couldn't put a talent in those initial skills, but later you could--I never got a diamond shape (that I noticed) but the good news is I did manage to get the Igni powerup to work by holding the RMB.

My hat is also off to those who beat the C plant on the first go around--I died several times before I got my fire power up. I used the scream and run away strategy til I was almost through with the Swamp.

@ Sammy I LOL'ed at the drowner brain snackage incident. That's definitely junk food. :)

[Acleacius]

Jabberwocky thats a sort of common problem from that big thread, about not being able to attack. Once you miss or get hit you need to move (double click) fast to get repositioned to start your attack sequence again, especially when you up against a fast hitter like this or in a group beating on you, you have to relocate.

Even with good old Blizzard those quick relocations behind a single target are a sweet way to avoid getting hit and restarting your attack. :)

[GothicGothicness]

hmm, I tried to drink this blizzard potion... is it supposed to do something, all that happend for me is that the frame-rate dropped from like 40 to 5, and it became impossible to fight... so I thought it was some poisson or something??

[Corwin]

You're right, it is a poison, but it slows everything down, making fighting fast monsters easier!!

[GhanBuriGhan]

Your journal should tell you all about it, if you read the right books. If not, the manual does.

[GothicGothicness]

Hehe, well I think this shader effect to make everything blurry might slow down the FPS, at least I hope so. Because I found fighting to be a lot harder while drinking this potion :D

[Prime Junta]

@Gothic, try it again. One thing Blizzard does is mess up your rhythm -- you have to watch for the hit cues more carefully. However, after a couple of tries you will have figured out how it works, and at that point it becomes a tactical nuke -- you're damn close to unkillable when on Blizzard.

[xSamhainx]

yes, Ive seen the light when it comes to Blizzard's effectiveness. I still dont like the visual effect tho, I'm a very impatient person. Life's short, I aint got all minute.

At least my load times are nothing since the patch!

[Acleacius]

True, I am still amazed at Cd Projekt, even though they are generously promising a Editor, they have been extremely stingy with allowing us to make adjustments game or video quality. The two major being the shader/particle effects, in Blizzard and on the game side to disable the Autosave, there are many others missing. All the previous Aurora games in the NWN.ini for both games and most all games sold.

[Prime Junta]

yes, Ive seen the light when it comes to Blizzard's effectiveness. I still dont like the visual effect tho, I'm a very impatient person. Life's short, I aint got all minute.

Two words: White Honey.

[crpgnut]

I finished The Witcher last night and started over on hard difficulty. I admit to cheating and using my memory of recipes from the first game to make certain potions a lot earlier than you actually find them. Geralt is having very selective memory recall :) I hate drunkeness and Wive's Tears sell for 20 gp each. White Honey is another mainstay. I find myself over-intoxicated quite frequently on this game!

[magerette]

So you can take White Honey and it eliminates the blurry visuals but leaves the slowdown effects of Blizzard? This would be exceptionally cool, as I intend to replay on hard and I know I'll need all the chemical assistance I can get--I just can't play the blurry stuff without some motion sickness problems. (Strange, drinking in RL seldom has that problem--maybe because I stop moving. :) )

[Acleacius]

So you can take White Honey and it eliminates the blurry visuals but leaves the slowdown effects of Blizzard?
No, no. I think maybe Prime Junta joking, confused or his post confused us. :)

I'll need all the chemical assistance I can get-
Lol, we are talking about games here, think of the children! :p

[magerette]

I thought I remembered that White Honey wiped all effects. I would bet Prime J is saying one can use it after the fight so the double vision goes away sooner.

[Dez]

White honey wipes all effects, but its a real lifesaver. I'll use it typically when Geralt is really low on health and his toxcity level is very high, you can't drink swallow or White Raffard's Decoction without hurting yourself...so that is when white honey comes in the picture :) An other way to clear toxcity is to meditate, but sometimes you can't..

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah, as I said somewhere else, visually the Blizzard effect sucks. But it sure does work well when I'm in a pinch!

[aaron552]

I finished The Witcher last night and started over on hard difficulty. I admit to cheating and using my memory of recipes from the first game to make certain potions a lot earlier than you actually find them. Geralt is having very selective memory recall :) I hate drunkeness and Wive's Tears sell for 20 gp each. White Honey is another mainstay. I find myself over-intoxicated quite frequently on this game!

I used to hate drunkeness, due to the (incredibly) slow speed at which you move... but then i found out that if you can pull out your sword, you run at normal speed. As most of the required (quest-related) drinking goes on at night, you can pull your sword out almost everywhere (outdoors) so it's not really a problem for me

[xSamhainx]

hmm, never thought of that ='.'=

that's good to know, thx for the tip and welcome to the forums

[Jabberwocky]

btw.. white honey does not cure the effects of intoxication.

[magerette]

Yep, I've been set straight. :)

I think he said Wive's Tears-for drunknness---and White Honey as a mainstay to relieve toxicity, which is probably useful at the Hard difficulty when you're guzzling several different potions per combat.

[GothicGothicness]

Ha, I played it through on hard. I am sorry to say, while I love other parts, the gameplay really SUCKS. The alchemy system is completely useless, I didn't mix a single potion! The game is just to crazy easy even on the hard setting, There is one potion that I have ever drunk and it is swallow, I have never had any reason to touch any of the other potions or bombs or whatever else!, after playing through almost the entire game, I have to say that the character advancement system, the alchemy system, and the combat system really sucks. IN 99% of all combats you press one button. The timing is really easy too. Economy is useless I haven't bought a single thing, except some books needed for quests.

The setting and graphics are really nice... they could just remove the gameplay completely.

Thus there is no need to drink any white honey, or any other potion. It is really easy to get through by only drinking one swallow before the ( few ) big battles.

[Jabberwocky]

All bow down to the infinite gaming superiority of GothicGothicness. :roll:

@ Magerette: I haven't found any Wive's Tears bottles or formula yet, but it'll come in handy when I do! I seem to be drunk all the time in this game, which is cool because for once in a game getting drunk actually has a point, as opposed to the usual pointless marketing propaganda "hey, our game is like real-life because you can drink in it!"

[GothicGothicness]

All bow down to the infinite gaming superiority of GothicGothicness

I ussually suck at action games,,,, LOL, never heard someone say something like that. IT is the system that is seriously broken and flawed not me that are doing something good, unfortunately :(

[magerette]

That may be true for you GG, but I was mixing and drinking potions left and right on easy level. Cat for the dark places, Tawny Owl to regenerate endurance for signs, Swallow of course, and White Raffard's occasionally. And while I seldom had to reload, I certainly wouldn't say most of the battles where that easy for me--in the swamp, for instance, you had to be careful to pick your ground or you'd be surrounded--the wyvern island for example. ...but it's true I'm not the world's greatest gamer. ;)

If you read some of the posts in this thread, I think you'll have to admit though that not everybody found things as easy as you did, so like Jabberwocky, I also salute your abilities. You're better than you think you are. :)

@Jabs--yes I used Wives Tears a lot--and I did as few of the drinking contests as I could get away with--that double vision, wavering-around stagger thing brought back too many memories. ;)

[GothicGothicness]

You're better than you think you are.

Better at exploiting the flaws in the game,, the wyvern? use the ( aard ?) sign the one to stun them, and one click they are gone, ok I should say by clicking two buttons, I used aard sign, swallow and sword, but that is all to complete the game,, all the other stuff is really unnecesary. If you have a trouble in any battle just keep running while you have drank the swallow potion until your life is full again, if someone come to close use aard sign. Sometimes you also need to use the fast style exploit to prevent a enemy from attacking you ( like on that plant described earlier in this thread )

[magerette]

Yes, I used those techniques and found them fun, and frequently challenging--not exploits--they required some tactical thinking, setting up your strategy, etc--unlike the games I think of as easy--hack and slash your way through a horde of weak monsters to finally kill a little tougher monster all with one repeated click. I obviously play too many action rpgs. :)

It is true that combat did become repetitive after awhile, and that once you had figured out your strategies as you listed above, you could pretty much rinse and repeat. That's where the story and characters saved the game for me. I don't think TW is a game that could stand on combat alone.

[Jabberwocky]

Imho the game's difficulty is just right on 'Hard.' It's challenging enough to make me flinch when enemies get the drop, but just easy enough to pass off the idea of Geralt being a bad *ss Witcher, - and makes you feel the same way as you play him. Any more difficult would be tedious with having to re-load more. As a very busy adult I simply do not have that kind of time.

I often find myself liking games with insane difficulty (e.g. Gothic, Independance War) but I prefer the design of TW, what I would call a "mediumly difficult" game (on hard, that is. And that's the way the game should be played - it just feels right).

[GothicGothicness]

Since the battle system is so flawed I am glad it is so easy as I do not have to bother with it. I still think it would be a better game if they removed all the combat, inventory management, alchemy, and economy, poker dice, fist fights, etc etc. I will write my full opinion, that is unfortunately much more negative than the RPGWatch review after I feel I am completely done with the game. I really love graphics, settings, and choices and consequences though! A pity they screwed up everything else so badly.

[StackSmasher]

My compliments to Gothic and any one else that can whup a Coccacidium that easily. I'm level 11 , playing on hard, and have no trouble killing anything and everything except for these beasties. They just rip me to shreds. I've doped up on Swallow, Blizzard and Thunderbolt (not all at once), used diamond dust, the silver sword oil, etc... Tried strong, fast, Igni (mine is perhaps too weak) I just can't last with this thing for more than 30 - 45 seconds.

I'm a twitch and usually don't have issues with this stuff so I was real glad to hear Gothics tip about the fast style. Alas, I'm just out classed at the moment.

I finally decided to just walk Gramps to his shrine via the back country and carved a path through the multitude hordes. It was much easier, I'll come back to the Coccacidai later, and Mitra help them when I do as her pleasures will seem merciful by comparison!

Where's Ellen Ripley when you need her:
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. :gorath:

[magerette]

Great line and I can only approve the smilie usage. :] (I'm addicted to the damn things.)

I think your strategy is sound, since it's pretty much what I did. ;) The igni power-up is the cheesiest way to kill the plant people, but it takes talent investment. I came back toward the end of the act , fired from a distance and took it out in about four shots. Other people in the thread did it some other ways--so really you can use a variety of approaches--I'm just fond of the firestorm style.

[Jabberwocky]

@ GothicGoth.. So if you remove nearly every single component of the game as you suggest, what kind of a game do you have left? An avatar that walks around in pretty scenery? That last post almost sounded trollish, seriously.

Anyway, I beat the Coccacidium last night. First time I've been able to sit down to the game in 3+ weeks. I was maxed out on bronze Igni talents, but still had to get up close and personal. Took three *Insert Monty Python quote here* "RUN AWAY!" attempts to allow for healing, but by golly I beat the darn thing!

[StackSmasher]

Ahh, yes, brave Sir Robin :D

@Jabberwocky: Out of curiosity, what character level are/were you when you laid the righteous smack down on those filthy 'plants'?

[xSamhainx]

The main source of pain from those plants, I've found, is the poison thorns they shoot. Like I was saying before, bust out a Quen shield for the journey to and from the melee fight and that's half the battle right there, nullifying those poison projectiles.

Gothic, you leave very little left of the game, and what makes the Witcher unique if you hack out all of the things you mentioned! I found some of the fights quite difficult, like some of the tomb battles late game, and some of the encounters in the fields against those noonwraiths got pretty hairy. All depends on the day/night dynamic too, at night it's far more dangerous than daytime. The only potions that I really used were swallow, cat, and the occasional blizzard. I dont see how anyone could do the larget crypts without Cat

[GothicGothicness]

@ GothicGoth.. So if you remove nearly every single component of the game as you suggest, what kind of a game do you have left? An avatar that walks around in pretty scenery? That last post almost sounded trollish, seriously.


Not at all, what is the strong part of the witcher? Choices and character interaction? IMHO that's it, and the story telling. I just get annoyed when I have to click through a pointless combat in there, luckily it is easy. I do love the choices and character interactions a lot, and exploration, puzzles and detective work is okay too, and stuff like Shani's party. Look at the poll on the front page only 1.3% likes the combat best,, and if it is as badly implemented as in TW no need for it at all.

I dont see how anyone could do the larget crypts without Cat
I use a torch, if there is a combat ( in which case Geralt doesn't throw the still lit torch on the ground to allow light for whatever reason he has ) you don't need to see, just click two buttons as described.

[xSamhainx]

I guess youre way better than me then, because I need to be able to maneuver around and stuff. So basically, I need to see what I'm doing, especially if fighting lots of opponents or something like the wraiths that can stun, I need to be able to evade their attacks.

I think the combat's great, we all have our opinions I guess!

[Jabberwocky]

@ Gothicness: I think what is baffling us is your saying that combat should be eliminated. So unless I don't understand your expression correctly, you are saying that you would rather TW be an adventure/puzzle game like Broken Sword or Myst. - You have choices and consequences, but that's essentially the only control you have over your character.
If you wish for the game to be that fundementally different from what it currently is, I can't imagine you having the patience to play it all the way through.

[magerette]

While we're all wondering about Gothic's approach to combat, I'd like to ask him(or her, of course but I think it's 'him', isn't it GothicGothicness?--if not apologies) to give an example of the kind of combat s/he'd prefer to see in TW, or of a game that has the best combat...

--well I suppose it could be Gothic, huh? :p

If that's the case and it is Gothic style combat--I can't say as I found it any harder or more realistic or whatever than The Witcher's--it was different and it was good, but I don't know that I see it as better than watching/being Geralt the Swordmaster. :)

[GothicGothicness]

Great, lots of disagreements and we have a debate :) I am putting my opinion here, and I can understand you guys disagree. I can also not understand what there is to like about the combat system.

something like the wraiths that can stun, I need to be able to evade their attacks.

I was stunned by a wraith a few times, but they ussually just die with one group combat series, didn't have a problem with it.

You have choices and consequences, but that's essentially the only control you have over your character. I can't imagine you having the patience to play it all the way through.

Wouldn't it require less patience without all the boring combat? or am I missing something?

to give an example of the kind of combat s/he'd prefer to see in TW, or of a game that has the best combat...

--well I suppose it could be Gothic, huh?

Gothic 1, yes from a combat perspective I enjoyed it more than TW, while not an RPG I liked the combat in beyond good and evil, or zelda, or my favourite action RPG Tales of Eternia. There are painfully few action RPG's with good combat though, I kind of prefer turn-based, or with a party so you have some strategy. Fable, or Ultima 9, diablo whatever you name it,,, they are still all better than TW's combat system though, at least they have some excitement in them. The main reason I am angry at TW's combat is it had a lot of potential, but they messed it up completely, by having those major flaws I mentioned. So did the development system,,, I mean I got enough bronze talent to take every skill.. so what does my choice matter? as far as silver talents go it is a really easy choice which skills to pick. At the later part in the game, I didn't even bother to distribute my silver or gold talents.. the game is already too easy. I can not imagine anyone having a problem with playing through it? did you guys used the trick I mentioned? also the inventory system, you can carry 9 more big horns and a huge sword? but not one more flower petal? someone said the extreme limit is realistic, but what is realistic about that? I didn't bother with inventory or buying at all, it is just a painful process of throwing away and picking up stuff you'll never need. I do think the combat serves the function of making you feel powerful and you can watch a lot of cool moves though...... but I mean you get tired of it! No offense taken magerette even no need for that political correctness I am not easy to offend :)

[xSamhainx]

How potent potions and signs are vs witcher/steel sword style combat effectiveness is what I saw as the main option for building Geralt differently. You can build him into mainly a caster and potion swigger and have him plunk away with non-witcher style weapons when he does have to engage in melee, or go full melee w/ some sign and potion enhancements. I wonder if anyone's really went the sign/potion route tho!

[zahratustra]

I think that a state of "unreconcilable differences" about Witcher exist between GothicGothicness and majority of other posters in this thread. Can we be reconciled? And do we really need to?

[Asbjoern]

I would actually just like to give GothicGothicness my support in this debate. A lot of what her (and it is her, isn't it GG?) says and argues I can agree with. The Witcher is not about combat, but about the story, great quests like Shani's Party and the different characters that Geralt meet.
The great thing though is that combat is very limited in The Witcher. I think The Witcher is the only RPG I've played where combat plays such an unsignificant part. They could have removed it entirely, though you can't create a game where Geralt is the main character without having combat, because that doesn't relate to the character Sapkowski has created.
The Witcher is a balanced game. It revolves around Geralt as a main character, as a person. It doens't revolve around a gameplay element like combat or puzzles. The key element is Geralt and like any other person he is a multi-facetted person. So there's a bit of combat, there's a bit of dialogue, there's a bit of this and a bit of that.
Though I do not agree with GG that the combat system in The Witcher is flawed. I found it great, but that is perhaps also only because of the low amount of combat. High amounts of combat in any game ruins the combat system for me. It ruins the game.

[VPeric]

But if you take out combat, then you also effectively remove character development, and in the end you end up with one of those "pick-your-own-path" children books (sorry, I don't know the actual name).

Or, to put it differently: an action movie might have a great action sequence or two, and crappy everything else, but it'll probably be better received than a movie which has action sequences for 1.5 hours.

[zahratustra]

Or, to put it differently: an action movie might have a great action sequence or two, and crappy everything else, but it'll probably be better received than a movie which has action sequences for 1.5 hours.

Have to disagree with you here VPeric.... A bunch of recently released (and well received by adolescent audience) action movies are nothing but action sequences!

Asbjoern - I tend to agree. Althrough I don't mind a bit of combat I, (very) personnaly, would be happy with RPG with without any as long as character development and gameplay is excting enough.

[GothicGothicness]

Asbjoern - I tend to agree. Althrough I don't mind a bit of combat I, (very) personnaly, would be happy with RPG with without any as long as character development and gameplay is excting enough.

OO yes, That's the problem, Character development is a lot of fun ( just like the poll also shows ) and character development in TW is ( almost ) only about combat! So if you remove combat you also remove the character development. But as noted in my point, the character "development" system is nearly? pointless you will get enough bronze talent to pick every bronze skill! and as long as you max the aard sign and attributes, and follow the tricks mentioned, the game will be such a breeze that nothing matter anymore ( thus the character development system also becomes useless ) When I level up I want to FEEL YES I got new points to place on something to become better ( and maybe be able to win that combat I couldn't before, pick that lock I was unable to, fix that piece of machinery,,,seduce that guy or whatever ) in TW my thinking is just... ooo no another level... so what who cares? I don't need to distrubete the points and make the combat even more boring and easy! AND THIS IS ON HARD DIFFICULTY. The idea is not bad, if they fixed the system. Give fewer bronze talents and make the choices balanced, make the combat something else instead of mindless clicking? can anyone tell me about the point with the timing? if you get this timing system once you'll never miss a full series timing again! and it is always the same no matter against which enemies etc etc etc. The reason I want to remove those elements are because they are so poorly implemented. Luckily as Asbjoern said it is still a small part of the game,,,, and inventory management and the other things I suggest they remove you can just ignore completely. I can just imagine what a great game TW could have been if these were great gameplay mechanics instead of bothersome tasks.

[zahratustra]

Let's face facts GG: you seems to like "hack and slash" more than a true to form RPG and there is nothing wrong with that. That's why I have mentioned "unreconcilable differences" before: what you call "bothersome tasks" I call "part of the gameplay". The same story with Bronze Talents: there are indeed plently of them but Bronze Talents just set your charater on developmental path and are the beginning and not the end of it. Silver and Gold - that's what really counts and you don't get them as freely as you do Bronze.
As for levelling - I, personnaly, was looking forward to my next level so I could get a new and more effective sword combo or an upgrade to my Aard or Quen signs! Another case of "each to it's own"!

[GothicGothicness]

I really hate hack and slash, they are very repetetive and boring, whatever gave you that idea?, that I ranked them above TW just show how much I dislike it's combat system. I, personnaly, was looking forward to my next level so I could get a new and more effective sword combo or an upgrade to my Aard or Quen signs! to use for what? :P Anyway, if you guys like the battle system and think it is great, I think we are too far away from an agreement. I will just have to develop a game myself and prove to you guys how much greater it can be :) It is a deal OK ?

[Asbjoern]

Ah, damnit. I can't restrain myself any longer. Both zahra and GG now. "Personnaly" is correctly spelled "personally".

[GothicGothicness]

thanks, I will personally see to learning it :) D.S. Did you notice I quoted the post? I know how to spell it!

[Asbjoern]

thanks, I will personally see to learning it :) D.S. Did you notice I quoted the post? I know how to spell it!

Then you don't know how to quote. But let us get this thread on-topic again.

[zahratustra]

I will just have to develop a game myself and prove to you guys how much greater it can be :) It is a deal OK ?

I wait with bated breath :)

[GothicGothicness]

I wait with baited breath

I already developed some games, and I was at larian for some time too. Give me time though, to make a game is really time consuming, and don't expect the excellent music, and graphics from TW, but I am trying my best! If you don't have the most beautiful graphics or music, you have to focus on gameplay and story instead!!!

in that case you... Then you don't know how to quote. .
and you are right I can never learn to quote properly,,, but if you read you can see I just copied his text :P

[Asbjoern]

I wait with bated breath :)

Haha, I actually didn't know about the controversy concerning "bated breath" and "baited breath". But yes, I have some mildly obsessive traits. Thank you zarahtustra, my sanity remain intact!

and you are right I can never learn to quote properly,,, but if you read you can see I just copied his text :P

Yeah, I admit. I read it properly the first time too, but I simply just forgot in my mind that it was a quote and not your own writing. But the lack of quotation method confused my silly little head.