WoW or EQ2?

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

I never liked the idea of MMORPGs, or paying monthly just to play a game. Yet I find it harder and harder to get good, substantial, Single Player RPGs.A few months ago I picked up Guild Wars on the advice of a friend, and despite my initial misgivings, I really enjoyed the game.
However, my problem with Guild Wars is two-fold, although both kind of coming down to the same thing. First of all, I am the kind of RPGer who measures her succes by the advancement my character has made. I love gaining levels, finding better armor, weapons and so on. In Guild Wars the level is capped at 20, which you can reach within hours when playing Factions, and you then also immediately gain the highest level armor. There are more expensive armors, but that it all looks, they aren't any better.
My second problem, is that I am a mediocre player. I like playing games, but I'm not very good at them. Single player games I quite often finish on the easiest level setting. In Guild Wars I got past this by making sure I was a level or two levels higher then I was supposed to be a missions, but after level 20, that is impossible. If I have a hard time fighting a level 26 creature, I can't just gain another level (and/or better gear) and come back.
So as you can see, it both comes down to the levelcap :)

I've tried some free MMORPG (mainly Flyff) and really liked the freedom of them. I like the casual social interaction (I am on at awkward times and can't always commit myself) so being able to find other players to team up with and disband once I need to go, without leaving my party halfway through a mission, is great.

I found I like:
Soloing and occasionally grouping
Roleplaying
Doing lots of quests
Being part of a storyline
Auction house/ Private shop where I can set up my stuff and just go AFK while my character sells
Forms of fast travel

I dislike:
PvP
Grinding (don't mind kill 'X creatures for me' kind of quests though)
4 or 5 hour long missions that I have to do with other people
low levelcaps
Trading directly with other players (IE standing somewhere spamming WTS)
Harsh death penalties

I would be interrested in:
Crafting
Some form of mount or other owned transportation
Player housing
Lots of races and character customisabilty

I've been looking into both WoW and EQ2, both seem fun, both have different advantages and disadvantages. I played the EQ2 trial, but it only let me go up to level 6, and was only on a starter island. I liked it, but it didn't give me enough info to really make a decision. I don't have a credit card, so I'll be depended on Pay-as-you-go cards. So I can't try out WoW unless I buy such a card. With my limited budget, I was hoping on some advise before I pick up one or the other.

So, if anybody is still reading after my essay, what game do you think would suit my gaming style better?

[Inauro]

I'm surprised you say that you can't trial WoW without buying a card. All of the EB Games stores i've been into in both New Zealand and Australia (read: Melbourne, which is where i now live) offer trial WoW CDs for about $10. With these CDs you can trial the game for 14 days without having to pay and, i believe, roll the game over to a full account using the same CD if you choose to do so. I suggest that you contact your local game store and see if a similar offer is available where you live.

But backtracking a minute to answer your question. Which is the MMORPG for you?

The answer sort of depends on the type of thing you look for in a MMO/RPG. Both WoW and EQ have their merits, and as you know advantages and disadvantages. I think, however, that it is fair to say that WoW is, on the whole, easier for players that are new to MMORPGs to get into. It also has significantly lower graphical overheads, which can be a concern for players on a limited budget, or with a mid-range system.

Running through your list i think i can give you positive responses to a couple of your questions as far as WoW goes. Crafting is available and there are a variety of different disciplines to choose from: mining, skinning, smithing, alchemy, armour and weapon crafting and the like. You can access a mount at certain levels in the game (some classes get a free one, others need to purchase them) that can be taken off the beaten track and is player directed.

Now the negatives. Player housing is, sadly, not available at this stage but the guild structure is fairly robust. Races and customisability is where things fall down a little. There is a limited number of races and visual options available to each character and little to choose from aside from skin colour, hair style and gender at character creation.

The rest. PvP is opt-in so you can choose to participate or not as your preference dictates. Since the addition of Battlegrounds (instanced combat zones) to the game the majority of PvP takes place "off the map" as it were so most of the PvE environment is relatively free from the sort of rolling mauls that (at least in my opinion) used to make the game fun and frustrating at the same time.

Grinding, is, regrettably a factor in pretty much every modern MMORPG to some extent and WoW is no different. That said, there is a decent variety of quests types that ameliorate the feeling of standing in the same place smacking X number of monster Y.

Auction House. Yep, and it's recently been expanded on to offer connected Auction Houses between all major cities.

Roleplaying. Pick an RP server and stick with those into roleplaying and you're golden. The rest of the time it's potluck just like any other MMORPG.

Storyline. WoW seems light on this to me, but then so do all MMORPGs. I'm hoping some of the upcoming games (Age of Conan) will help fix this.

Harsh death penalties. WoW has one of the lightest death penalties i've come across to date. Corpse runs are in, but experience loss is negligible.

Forms of fast travel. Pay to use winged mounts are available between most major destinations. Free zeppelins are available to the Horde and ships to the Alliance.

Hope that helps.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Thank you for your elaborate reply. You awnsered a lot of my concerns, your reply really helped.

I don't mind grinding upto a certain extend, but excessive grinding does get boring, especially when the returns (in XP or loot) are minimal. As long as grinding is broken by quests and other things (like grinding and getting crafting materials at the same time for example) i do not mind.
It sounds like a lot of things on my wishlist are adressed in WOW, and the 10 dollar trial card sounds very tempting. I will look out for one of those trial WoW CDs, that sounds like a very good option :)

I know WOW has and expansion coming up in January, is that high-end gameplay content, or would a newbie like myself need it as well?

and I understand EQ2 has several addon packs, do I need all of those as well straight away to play?
I would love to hear the EQ2 side of things as well. :)

[txa1265]

Sorcha - I liked the WoW trial (14 day) considerably more than the EQ2 trial - there was just a better 'feel' of the experience for me. I know you can get it free in places, I also know that some places charge for the DVD.

The problem with MMO's is the time commitment. I'm playing NWN2, and I can hop on unexpectedly for a while, work on stuff, then leave. As you progress in MMO's you need to make a significant investment of time and schedule with others. You should really read Jeff Vogel's latest View from the Bottom (http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/742/742770p1.html)!

As for add-ons, they typically add high-end stuff or different features ... as a n00b you'd be a long way from using that stuff ;)

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Hi TXA, fancy meeting you here :D

that article was hilarious, hehe.

At the moment the time commitment doesn't scare me. I'm a staying-at-home mum, and housework only fills so much of my day ;) Yet I prefer to actually be there for the little one when she comes home from school and during her holidays (2 months in te summer here, 2 weeks at christmas and Easter, and many more inbetween) until she's a bit older, so I have some time to spare.

I've seen with Guild Wars how addictive online games are, but I also know I can walk away and cook dinner or give quality time to my family whenever I want to, it's not a problem for me.
hence the question about the big raids, I do not really want to go AFK during a long mission and leave people in a lurch, yet at the same time, I will shut down my PC at any time to play with Barbies, if the situation arises. ;) So short missions appeal to me the most, and a fair amount of solo play for when I am on at odd times or only have half an hour before my washing machine is done :D

I will get NWN2 if the player reviews are positive, I got burned with Oblivion, and won't buy a game right at release again. I'll give it a while, that way the first patches will be out as well :)

I'm starting to lean towards Wow, I asked on another site as well, and they recommended it over there as well. I'll pick up a trail Cd tomorrow ;)

[rheric]

I've noticed that the WoW trial is no longer free here (US), too. Its 14 days for the price of the disk (don't need a subscription card), and 1.99 will get you the CD at most any store that sells games, but c'mon...don't they make enough money as is?

To do more than gripe - Inauro is right, there are strengths and weaknesses to both games in terms of what you describe what you are looking for. He gave a ton of info on WoW, and I agree with most everything he said.

I've played both games extensively, and I enjoyed both of them. (I actually quit WoW because I started to play TOO much, and my newborn son/wife were feeling the hurt.)

WoW has pretty much everything you are looking for, and also has everything you aren't. So does EQ2, if you don't mind looking for it a bit harder. Crafting in WoW is ok, but once you've gotten a taste of crafting in EQ2 or others games (Ryzom), it's only fair to good, not great. Too simplistic for my taste.

EQ2 wins the race/customizable character competition as well. Mounts are expensive in both, but when I was playing WoW, I had to save gold for 10 levels AND have a friend lend me cash to buy one in a reasonable time. Not so much in EQ2. Housing is entirely EQ2 again - very available, extremely customizable, and you can set up your house to operate as a store as well, even when you aren't online. Not so much in WoW - only the auction house there.

Both games have a huge amount of content. I honestly never felt I was seriously grinding in either - until I got to the higher levels in WoW. Both games literally have so much, you will never see everything with a single character.

EQ2 was a bit friendlier in the long run for soloing, but like any game, the best equipment will only be gained through group encounters. However, for me, the instanced content (dungeons, etc.) for small groups was far better in WoW - just had more fun with it.

As far as roleplaying and storyline that you are a part of - you aren't really gonna get that in any of the mainstream games, if at all. Most MMOs don't deserve the subcategory of RPG, because people just tend not to roleplay. It was rare to find a good roleplay group that was consistent in either game, even on the RP servers. If you find one, stick with them TIGHT, cause you might not find another. Being a part of the storyline, having an effect on the world - sorry, not going to really, truly get that anywhere. What you saw in Guild Wars is about the extent at this point in time. There is a ton more content in both games, but you're doing the same stuff everyone has - that's just the nature of this genre in the here and now.

In terms of everything else on your lists, EQ2 is pretty much the same is Inauro describes WoW. Here's the thing, though. WoW is a massive timesink. If you want to keep up, even in a small way, you'll find yourself putting a lot of time in. And in terms of long-term commitment, WoW has two flavors of endgame (in my experience) - PvP or Raids - neither of which you expressed most interest in. Granted, it'll take time to get to the endgame, but once you get there...that's about it. EQ2 felt like less of a timesink (in a relative sense), but I have to be honest and state that I never got as close to the endgame in that world.

Hope this help. What's with the long posts from me? Badger is rubbing off...

[txa1265]

What about D&D Online? That is supposed to have significant solo content as well as the standard stuff?

[xSamhainx]

Ive read just the opposite, that D&D online isnt very solo friendly at all.

I would recommend WoW purrsonally. I played it for like 2 months pretty much solo, then moved into a guild later on. It was easy to get the hang of, and you are able to move around to harder areas if you want, I always end up fighting things just a tad tougher or fight multiples to keep things interesting. Played it about 6 months or so 'til I started getting bored and my guild moved on to goals that I was not interested in, and also felt it was time to start chipping away at the singleplayer games that had been stacking up on my desk the entire time. So I quit for the time being, my characters in stasis awaiting my return.

It was a fun time tho, and i am thinking of re-logging back in lately, most certainly when the expansion hits. Alot of people diss WoW or MMORPGs in general, but I strongly believe that you create your own experience within them, it's up to you how you want to play the game.

The solo potential in WoW is pretty good, but mind you that this also depends on the class you pick as well. Pick the Hunter for what is in my opinion the best solo class, and later on if you want to get into big dungeons delvings with a large group youll find that you and your pet can be a very powerful part of the group. Ive played other classes, but I always end up coming back to my Hunters (I have a couple of them specced different!)

My little sister who is 12 and has never played anything other than the Sims before recently picked up WoW and did just fine with it, so i think it's safe to say that it's pretty forgiving to newbies to the game and genre itself.

[txa1265]

Ive read just the opposite, that D&D online isnt very solo friendly at all.
That was initially true but then they added stuff as noted here (http://www.ddo.com/article/412).

A new difficulty option will be available to those who want to have a go at some areas alone. The new "solo" difficulty level will scale the beasties and treasure in the area appropriately so that single adventurers won't be torn to bits. The first area to go solo will be The Harbor--The Waterworks, Irestone Inlet, and Kobold Assault dungeons will remain group areas.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Thank you for the long post, rheric, there is a lot of useful information there :)
I will see what the price is like for both games, and might try them both out if I can pick them up cheap. (I'm terrible at making decisions, hehe)

txa, from what I've read D&D Online has no solo content to speak off, and compared to other MMORPGs has not a lot of content either. It has cut out certain classes (like Druids and monks) and races (like Gnome and half-elf) and a very low level cap of 10 (which a lot of people reached in the trial period). The whole game is set in one city, and the sewers and dungeons underneath it, with no content outdoors (like forrests or plains).
most of what I read didn't sound too promising, or appealing for that matter. Which is too bad, because I am familiar with the D&D universe, and would have loved to play there.
I've read several reviews, all of them stating similar issues. I don't know if these issues got resolved over time, but the lack of info, updates and forum threads doesn't bode well...

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

hehe, while I was posting you guys posted as well. :D

TXA, thank you for that link, that is very usefull information. I'll go and hunt for some more info on how the game plays now...

[txa1265]

The way I see it, if you can get a free trial (or $2 trial disk) it is worth it. Since I brought up DDO, I did a quick check, and it is a pretty meager little world - so you really *should* do a trial before committing to anything on that one!

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Yes, I've been looking for more info on DDO as well. If it would have been brought out like Guild wars (Free to play after buying the game, with expansions to broaden the game) I would be tempted to pick it up, but the game just doesn't seem to have enough content to justify the monthly cost. Maybe it's fun to play, but both EQ2 and WoW just seem to offer so much more...

I'll try out WoW and EQ2 (if I can pick that one up cheap) and see what I think. If neither suits me, I can look into DDO and maybe even COH, but I'm not going to go mad tomorrow and come home with 4 MMORPGs :D I'll let you guys know what I think once I've played for a while.

[txa1265]

Do Guild Wars Factions and Nightfall both have the same level cap as the original?

[rheric]

I only played the DDO beta, so take these comments with that in mind.

If you aren't a "good player" as you describe above, don't even touch DDO. It's a waste of your money - the combat system is complicated and very tricky, takes a lot of practice, and has a VERY steep learning curve. I liked the world, liked the graphics, didn't mind the solo-unfriendly nature even, but I quit after a few days of the beta because the combat/movement/control schema was so damned difficult the game was downright NOT FUN.

I, too, have heard that there is a lot of new solo content, as Turbine realized you can't isolate such a huge population of the gaming crowd...but still, whether or not I can solo at all doesn't matter if I don't have fun playing the game.

Another thing to consider, Sorcha - the power of your machine. If you don't have a pretty good machine, don't bother with EQ2. Its a beautiful game if you can set the detail levels high enough (I actually far prefer the more realistic graphics and design over WoW's cartoony style). But if you can't pull the graphics off, the game loses a lot of its appeal (at least, i thought so running it on two different machines).

[rheric]

Also, just as a quick thought. You might want to check out Saga of Ryzom (or Ryzom Ring - both the same really). That's been my choice recently - very fresh and original Intellectual Property, beautiful graphics and setting somewhere between WoW and EQ in terms of design AND detail level, and has one of the most interesting, fun, and deep systems in MMOs, where you can build and customize nearly every action you learn, including items crafted, etc.

Plus, their recent release, called Ryzom Ring, allows for player created quests and content - even entire story arcs and such.

There's a free trial available with no time limit, but you're stuck on "the island" like the EQ2 trial. Still, very worthwhile to check out, and it might be a good fit for you!

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

txa: no, Guild Wars has a level 20 cap for all campaigns, and the two expansions reach this cap even quicker then the original. This is mainly to even things out for PvP players, and the same with the gear. You can reach max level, weapons and armors very early on in the game, so you can jump into PvP straight away. The only difference is that you have less skills then people who've played the whole PvE campaign, but in both expansionhit.s you can just go out and buy those skills.
The developers have stated that the level cap will stay in place, because succes in Guild Wars is based on strategy and player skill, not level and items.
There is a lot of PvE content, but emphasis is on PvP, even though a lot of people I know play the game without doing any of the PvP.

rheric, thank you for the info on DDO, I am defenitely going to pass on this. I will pick up NWN2 most likely eventually for my D&D fix :D

Saga of Ryzom is sci-fi, isn't it? I might download the trail version and take a look at that as well. I had a quick look at the site, and it loks very pretty.

I updated my system earlier on in the year to play Oblivion, which it ran well on the lower settings, so EQ2 shouldn't be a problem. The graphics in WoW are my one big gripe with the game, I don't really like the cartoony style. However, it seems less bad in videos then in screenshots, so maybe it looks better in action, so to speak. Also, I have learned over time that graphics are less important then gameplay. If the graphics are good, but the gameplay is lacking, there is still no fun to be had, whereas graphics (even though they can add to the immersiveness) don't matter as much is the game is fun ;)
Still, I can't see myself creating a Night Elf, those ears just look too odd ;)

[Inauro]

Saga of Ryzom (http://www.ryzom.com) is fantasy with a twist, rather than sci-fi. It's definitely different from the mainstream MMORPGs, and is a refreshing change from the standard high fantasy milieu.

I have to admit, however, that i found Ryzom's combat system incredibly frustrating. I lost count of the number of time that i'd defeat one creature with ease only to have the next creature of the exact same type and level wipe the floor with me for no readily apparent reason. Maybe there was something i was missing, but i just couldn't make head or tail of it. That said, many of the game systems (especially crafting) are really in-depth and engaging. Well worth trying it out to see if you like it.

World of Warcraft's graphics are a sticking point for a lot of people. Personally, i find a distinctive visual style (for example, Ryzom, the ill-fated SEED and FFXI Online) far more appealing than the usual run of the mill photorealism that so many RPGs and MMORPGs (yes i'm looking at you EverQuest 2) try to pull off these days. Photorealism only gets you so far. If every game were to take photorealism to the endpoint, they'd all look pretty much the same. To me that spells boring, not good graphics.

WoW's graphics (and W.A.R is looking good for the same reason), on the other hand, have a distinctive and cohesive style that really works in the context of the game. I don't once recall thinking, "that looks cartoony" while playing it. More often than not i'd be thinking, "man, that's impressive, and so right for the feeling of the Warcraft world." But, to each his/her own i guess.

[rheric]

Ryzom's combat system definitely takes some getting used to, and I agree with the inconsistency part - i've died suddenly without realizing I was anywhere near it, especially when getting mobbed by more than one creature.

However, the rest of the system is so deep and engaging, and the recent addition of player created scenarios, had me so intrigued that I subscribed to get in on the rest of the game. So far, no regrets (though I have yet to experience any player scenarios).

WoW's graphics were never a sore point for me - I adored the style and loved the visual consistency and the way that equipment sets just made you look like so damned slick. Very cool, and one of the strongest points for that game, visually. I'm with you on the distinctive visual styles - they can really make a game so much more than it might have been otherwise. And the photorealism isn't something I actually seek out...BUT I preferred the more realistic take on armor and weapons that I found in EQ2 over the more outlandish styles in WoW. My thoughts are pretty well summed up here (http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060208)...

My perfect game would combine the more realistic take on equipment that EQ2 had, with the visual style and consistency of WoW - oddly enough, this is one of the things that appeals to me most about Ryzom. It's a middle ground of sorts.

Also why I'm so keen on The Chronicles of Spellborn (http://www.spellborn.com/) - what an interesting and captivating style they have developed...just hope the game system plays out as fun, as Sorcha stated - if it isn't fun, it doesn't matter how pretty it is.

[xSamhainx]

I hated Ryzom. Played it for like a month, and was bored stiff by fighting different flavors of like 3 different types of monster archetypes. You have the "Puny Wolf-Thing" then the "Snarling Wolf-Thing", then you get to move on to the "Semi-Perterbed Wolf-Thing", then on to the "Angry Wolf-Thing", then to the "Totally Pissed-Off Wolf-Thing". Then once you master them, you get to move on to the "Puny Crab-Monster Thing", working your way up to the "Snarling Crab.....

Just a startling lack of variety coupled with a totally byzantine system of crafting your own stuff, down to what stamina, str, and whatever other points but done just freakin weird to where i was printing out faqs left and right. Plus, no good stuff was available from the vendors, so you were pretty much forced into buying things from players or making your own. Really good for those who are broke and dont have connections. Atrocious lag, and areas bordered with uber-powerful monsters kept me confined pretty much to one area, albeit big, but one area. Fighting the now "Frothing Wolf-Thing" over and over...

Ive said it before and I'll say it again- Ryzom was the only game that I've ever played where the starter island/area was more fun than moving on to other areas of the game. Variety of creatures, weapons, missions, etc. that ended as soon as I crossed the proverbial mississippi. I had started like 3 different characters, then realized there was something terribly wrong with this situation that wasnt going to remedy itself anytime soon.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Well, I just came back from the city. No copies of EQ2 or DDO anywhere, so that ruled those out, hehe. Didn't see Saga of Ryzom anywhere either...

I managed to pick up a full copy of WoW, for 19 Euro, which wasn't bad at all. (I payed with 20, the store cleric gave me 21 euro back, oh, how I hate being honest, I could have made money on buying the game :D ) I'm installing now, hopefully it will let me play straight away, else I'll have to go out again and get a pay per month card, or beg someone with a credit card ;)

I also managed to pick up NWN2 for 40 Euro, 15 less then in most shops, and I just can't resist a bargain, so I am going to take a look at that one anyway, despite my initial misgivings. Those two games should keep me busy for a while, hehe. :)

[rheric]

I hated Ryzom. Played it for like a month, and was bored stiff by fighting different flavors of like 3 different types of monster archetypes.

Definitely some of this in the game, though, to be honest, I've seen enough of this in other games that I have trouble holding it against Nevrax... For me, I like to work through as many "career paths" that are available to a character in a game, so I'm actually in combat less than other activities, so it bothers me even less. But I definitely agree, and sympathize, with your take, and with the somewhat confusing system - it definitely takes some getting used to, and has a steep learning curve. Ryzom has been called, and I agree, a game for the "experienced MMO player", and definitely not for the WoW-crowd or the new player. Not for everyone, but those who like it, LOVE it. It has an AMAZING community - the best I've ever experienced, and I've seen pretty much all of them.

Plus, no good stuff was available from the vendors, so you were pretty much forced into buying things from players or making your own...Atrocious lag, and areas bordered with uber-powerful monsters kept me confined pretty much to one area, albeit big, but one area.

Again, I can sympathize, having played Ryzom back then and only recently returning for a second round...a LOT of these problems seem to have been resolved by the devs. Plus, I'd rather a bit of lag getting onto a server than not being able to get on a server AT ALL, which I had my fill of in WoW, even towards the end of my time with it.

Sorcha, glad to hear you got WoW...I don't think you'll have too much trouble with it, and I honestly don't remember if you need a credit card or not. I don't expect to see you back here anytime soon, with two games like those on your desk. ;) Have fun!

[Inauro]

Keep us posted with your impressions of WoW, Sorcha. It's always interesting to hear how different people respond to different games. Also, watch out for Murlocs!

[xSamhainx]

One thing that initially hooked me into getting Ryzom was the concept of mob invasions, and having to fight them off and defend certain areas. Never really saw or heard any evidence of this happening when I was logged on. Did you ever take part in that, rheric?

As for Wow-
Must... resist... re-installing...

im really jonesing now, probably pick up NwN II to stave it off before it's too late!

[rheric]

I have yet to experience that part of the game, but to be honest, I just recently got back in, and had been gone so long that I just rerolled everthing and started fresh...so I haven't been off the newb island much.

With you on the WoW thing...it's a weekly battle not to reinstall and get back into it. I still wake up some mornings in the wee hours, with the loading screen song playing in my head. It's like being an amputee and feeling the missing parts itching...

[txa1265]

Funny this came up, I just got an email for a special $20 sale on DDO - link is here. (http://store.digitalriver.com/servlet/ControllerServlet;jsessionid=52d4d4b9d5e446028057e 517ff1347f6?Action=DisplayPage&Locale=en_US&SiteID=turbine&id=ShoppingCartPage)

[rheric]

yeah...save your 20...and your love of gaming. DDO almost killed MMOs for me. such high hopes for a game based on D&D, and set in Eberon...and so very very disappointing in its implementation. You'd think Turbine had NO experience in the MMO market they made so many poor design decisions.

Makes me fear to Lord of the Rings. They have two of the most loved franchises in the fantasy genre, and botched their first attempt...

[Inauro]

I still have hopes for Lord of the Rings Online, but then i go and watch another gameplay video at the official site and find myself getting depressed all over again. Combat looks so dull it's not even funny. Sad really, because next to D&D and Star Wars, Lord of the Rings is one of the richest IPs to hit the MMO scene for a very long time.

[rheric]

Agreed. It has so much potential, and I think, for most, it will either be an amazing experience, or an utter disappointment. Nothing in between - you love it with all your heart or you hate it with a passion. The IP alone has that effect on people NOW with the books, movies, and games.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

It's too bad DDO was so badly implemented. That universe, the lore, rules and classes just lend themselves to multiplayer so well.... (although ofcourse originally it was ment for smaller groups of P&P players)

LotR online.... I don't know. For me that is a story, with a beginning, a middle and an ending. Either you play out the story of the actual Fellowship (which means it isn't an RPG or MMO for that matter, since the story and roles are set in stone) or you get a game like the one for the PS2. Can't remember what it was called, but it was set at the same time as LotR, and you were playing with not-Aragorn, almost-Gimli, similar-to-Boromir, wanna-be Arwen, and so on (the names of the characters never stuck either).

But maybe I'm wrong, because there is a very rich lore there, and if well implemented, it could be very succesful. In the way that even people who dislike star Wars could appreciate KotOR for the great rPG it was, might apreciate LotR Online despite the fact that is set in that particular universe.

Anyway, I'd better head back to WoW :D Spent the whole evening last night installing, patching and updating, so I've only had a brief look this moring. Since the little one is watching 'Go Diego, go' and 'Dora the Explorer' after that, I should have an hour to myself :)

[xSamhainx]

well, she hasnt reported back.... lol

I guess the Murlocs got her :D

[txa1265]

well, she hasnt reported back.... lol

I guess the Murlocs got her :D

She's a Mom with little ones ... she has no fear of such beasties ;)

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Hehe, I'm still here. The little one has problems with her asthma and a throat infection on top of that at the moment, so I've been playing nurse :(

Anyway, I made a Gnome Mage on an RP server, and am having lots of fun. The game is fun to play, it looks great in action, and the people are very friendly. I've joined a roleplaying guild, which really helped.

Haven't seen any Murlocs yet though... :D

[Lintra]

I am now in the "Am I sure I really want to get this addicted to a game" stage with WoW. Just got to L40 with my main character (a dwarf pally) so with the mount, and plate mail this is watershed moment. Prolly wind up sticking with it for at least an other month or so.

I find the game very addictive, easily accessable, and the server I am on friendly. The crafting is a blast (mining and smithing/armorer for Kazadkin, my dwarf pally, other combos I am running are skinning/leather working, enchanter/tailor, herbalist/alchemy, and tailor/skinning (dont ask)). My biggest complaints with the game todate are:
1. Horrible lags in Iron Forge
2. Too much of a time suck.
3. Addons are a must!
4. Can't dye your armor (a minor complaint, but I am *really* partial to green!)

Speaking of addons, if you want to try this game you *must* aquire an addon that allows map notes, and an other to track resources. These are not really optional for a serious addict! There are many other quality addons, but these are the bare minimum.

Game is very forgiving for solo players - although the best 'drops' are in dungeons which require a party of at *least* 2 (and only for the more forgiving ones and if you are both a good 30% above recommended levels) ... I would recommend no less than 4 for most dungeons - and then only if well balanced.

There are moments of extreme frustration when you don't know where to find things (like where a certain city is), but the community has, to date at least, proven *very* helpful and friendly.

I've not tried any other on line games and so can't compare, but I've enjoyed my WoW experience much more than I'd expected.

[xSamhainx]

Yep, lv#40 is the big one! congrats on the mount!

Now you need to get your "epic" mount...

I have to admit, Ive been looking at EQ2 lately outta curiosity, Ive never played an EQ game before.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Hi Lintra, and thank you for your imput. Yes, the game is pretty addictive, but i also find it easier to shut down then Guild Wars. Mainly because Guild Wars is all instanced, so if you are halfway on a map and log out, you have to run all the way up again :)
Besides that the quests come in short and easy to manage chunks (kill 10 of these, get 6 of those) so even if I only have half an hour I can still aacomplish something :)

I love the crafting and the fishing as well, my huntress spends almost as much time fishing as questing, hehe.

I agree on the dye for armor, at one stage my blue-haired elf was running around with a bright green shirt, yellow cloak, red trousers and purple boots. It was a bit much, i have to say. :D

I agree on the easiness to solo as well, and if it get's too hard, I can always come back at a higher level, or team up with someone already there (that's the non-instanced ones ofcourse)

I have no lag problems, fortunately, not even at Ironforge :)

Yes, i am happy I chose this game, it is a nice change after all those bleak (read: realistic) looking RPGs, it is easy enough to pick up, and offers enough variety not to get boring quick.
I just picked up a two-monthly pay-card, so I'll be playing for the next while.

I'll have to look into these plugins and macros, I'll do a search tomorrow.

[xSamhainx]

Fishing is great fun! Helps with keeping a pet fed as well if you have a cat, which is one of the reasons I always stuck with cats. I wrote a fishing guide, if I can find it I'll post it, there's some intricacies and tricks to it you wouldnt think it first it was that involved.

Nice to actually do cooking at the same time, helps to level cooking quick at times, and you can make some really kickass food with buffs.


edit-

Ah, here's a rough draft of my guide I found on my hard drive, unfortunately the final has been lost since it was a forum post on my deceased guild's website.
================================================== ======
What is fishing all about in World of Warcraft? Reading the guild chat of myself and other members going on about it, it may seem a little weird at first, or a total waste of time.

While I admit virtual fishing is a little weird, if you know what you are doing, fishing can be anything but a waste a time. For one, tradeskills such as alchemy and cooking use fish for a few of their ingredients. Secondly, if you are a Hunter, you can arguably keep certain pets always fed for free simply by dropping your line into the water for a little while each day. You also can eat the fish raw if youd like, however, this is best used in conjunction with the cooking skill for best effect (fish when cooked bestows far greater health and buffs).
As with every gathering tradeskill in the game, there is always someone else who needs what you’ve got. While Ive found Firefin and Blackmouths to yield pretty minor cash payoff usually in the silver range, Stonescale Eels are a very profitable catch that has paid off time and time again in gold. Just a couple days ago, I sold a stack of 15 Stonescale Eels for 15 gold in the auction house. A gold apiece!

Fish used in Alchemy-
---------------------------------------------------------
Firefin Snapper - Fire Oil (used for potions/enchanting/tailoring)
Oily Blackmouth - Blackmouth Oil (used for potions/enchanting)
Stonescale Eel - Stonescale Oil (used for potions)

Along with the usual health gains from eating cooked and uncooked fish, there are a few recipes from fish that also grant a few different buffs.

Some Fish and other Seafood used in Cooking-
--------------------------------------------------------
Nightfin Snapper - (874 health-restores 8 Mana every 5 seconds for 10 min.)
Sunscale Salmon - (874 health-restores 6 health every 5 seconds for 10 min.)
Glossy Mightfish - (874 health-increases Stamina by 10 for 10 min.)
Winter Squid - (874 health-increases Stamina by 10 for 10 min.)
Mightfish - (1933 health-increases Stamina by 10 for 10 min.)
Summer Bass - (874 health-increases Spirit by 10 for 10 min.)
Redgill - (1392 health)
Spotted Yellowtail - (1392 health)
Darkclaw Lobster - (2148 health)
Deviate Fish - (turns you into a pirate or ninja!)

If you should choose the way of the fisherman, there are a few things you should know.

- The level of fishing is roughly equivelent to the mobs in the area. Thus, you should move to an area with higher level mobs if you think your fishing skill has outgrown a certain area. You will skill up faster in higher level fishing areas, just watch out for high-powered mobs that can ruin your day!

- Use lures to fish in areas that are too high for your level, or if you find your fish repeatedly "getting away". Use the best lures you can for your level. Fishing in areas such as Winterspring are actually 300+, and lures are required to fish there even if your skill is maxed out. While "Bright Baubles"(+75 fishing for 10 mins) can be bought at many vendors, "Aquadynamic Fish Attractors"(+100 fishing for 5 mins) can also be bought at select vendors and are made by engineers as well.

- Try and get your hands on a "Big Iron Fishing Pole" as soon as possible, the bonus you get added with the lures you use allows you to fish in a lot of places normally too high for you. There are usually a few up in the Auction House for a few gold, or you could go try and retrieve one yourself from some shellfish traps off the coast of Desolace. Ive gotten several of them this way, just jump in the waters off the lower part of desolace and start searching all the traps.

The following is a list of the poles available in the game that I know of, unfortunately the Nat Pagle pole is a quest item only for Horde, supposedly going to be made available for Alliance as reward in upcoming Booty Bay fishing tourneys.

-Fishing Pole -Basic, blah. 'nuff said (vendor sold)
-Blump Family Fishing Pole - Fishing +3 (Darkshore quest reward)
-Strong Fishing Pole - Fishing +5 (vendor sold)
-Big Iron Fishing Pole - Fishing +20 (AH or loot from shellfish traps off Desolace coast )
-Nat Pagle's Extreme Angler FC-5000 - Fishing +25 (Horde quest, SV fishing tourney)

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Ah, thank you for that fishing guide, there is a lot of useful information there :)

I have been cooking my fish, and my cat eats a lot of it as well. I've never bought food, either for my cat or myself, I'm a terrible Scrooge when it comes to RPGs, and I only tend to buy if I really need it (with the exeption of a pet bunny for my Gnome mage, she just had to have that). with fishing and cooking, my charqacters never go hungry :)

[Neo]

I haven't been reading trough this whole topic -- sorry for that -- but did read your first post. From experience I can say that WoW is an addictive, fun, but extremely time-robbing game. Now you are a low level, which means you don't have to spend all your time in it. Once you reach level 60, however, and join a raidguild, there are just certain times you have to be on. I have a raid 3 times a week from 1900 till 2300. That just did it for me. After playing WoW for 1.5 years, having a 60 NE rogue with 3 epic mounts and full Tier 2 set (bloodfang, completely epic), reached rank 11 and got my PvP set... It's over for me, I stopped my billing two weeks ago. Maybe in the near future I will start playing again, but for now it's over. I'm playing Lineage2 again, which allows me to be on whenever I like without strict time-schedules. WoW was a good choice, but be careful once you reach 60 :)

--

Some add-on tips:
- Perl UI -- Clean and perfect looking interface (healths bars etc)
- Atlasloot enhanced -- Atlas, only then with the loots per boss
- Scrollingcombattext
- Equipcompare -- When you hover over a weapon/armor, it also shows your current equip in that slot
- Killingblow -- For BG, says in chat when you do the killing blow.

There are a lot more I use, but these are fun.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Thanks for your input, Neo.
I am not to worried about either PvP or raiding, truth to tell, I care about neither. I don't do PvP at all, ever, and raiding doesn't sound like fun to me either.
For me it is about the journey: levelling up, exploring new maps, completing quests. It is very likely that once I reach 60 (or 70 with the expansion) I'll create a new character, rather then play on with my level 60.

I'll look into those addons, they sound useful. I believe the game does already compare what you have with what you are looking at though, at least at the aH and merchants. :)

[Acleacius]

I have p;ayed EQ2 for a couple of months, if you are considering it and perfer having a choice about playing solo, I would suggest a Summoner.
My toon was a Gnome Summoner and did very well constantly soloing, there is a nice balance you need to play with of trying to get your heals timed at about 60% of your pets damage but very nice once you get than sweet spot.
It is just a matter of moving to the next area finding a spot where you can have your pet pull a single mob back to your safe spot to fight (safe spot being, having and knowing your escape plan).
I was able to level to the cap at the time of 50 very quickly and as mentioned they do have a great craft system, housing (with unlimited possiblies), mounts and many RP servers.
Not that I am saying they are the greatest as mentioned obviously WoW has done many things right and I still haven't play it, though I think about it. :)
Yet the content EQ has is 5 or 6 years worth its amazing and they have made efforts to fine tune it especially with the personalised dungeons where you can enter them solo anything you get tired of the normal content.
The amazing thing about an Summoner is they are also very groupable, so if you want to find a group you are in demand, my Pet could tank with the best of them. ;)
Plus you get a few attack spells and of course healing spells for your Pet, which changes every 10 levels (iir) so you wont get bore with one pet.

I had a friend that wanted to play EQ2 instead of WoW because well he is a graphics nut, but he paid for my game to get me to play so it only cost me $15 a month.
Sadly I leveled so fast since I could play solo, while he chose a strait Mage was very limited and forced to group since Mages are not the best for soloing as a starting toon.
He got discuraged even though I offered to start another character or go to another sever with him and he quit playing.

So that's the best advice I can offer for the most versitle toon go with Summoner. :)

I guess I should have looked at the date, your proabably level 100 by now, doh! ;)

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

I guess I should have looked at the date, your proabably level 100 by now, doh!

hehe, no my highest character is lvl 30, I do have various alts though. :)

I like WoW, initially there is a lot to it, with the crafting, and gaining skills and levels fast, but I did find that after a while the novelty of that wears off. I don't play the game every day, and can't see myself still playing it a year from now. But for the moment I am enjoying it, and playing regularly.
Maybe once I get fed up, I'll have another look at EQ2, depending on if I can find the prepaid cards ;)

[Kawika]

Ive read just the opposite, that D&D online isnt very solo friendly at all.

I would recommend WoW purrsonally. I played it for like 2 months pretty much solo, then moved into a guild later on. It was easy to get the hang of, and you are able to move around to harder areas if you want, I always end up fighting things just a tad tougher or fight multiples to keep things interesting. Played it about 6 months or so 'til I started getting bored and my guild moved on to goals that I was not interested in, and also felt it was time to start chipping away at the singleplayer games that had been stacking up on my desk the entire time. So I quit for the time being, my characters in stasis awaiting my return.

It was a fun time tho, and i am thinking of re-logging back in lately, most certainly when the expansion hits. Alot of people diss WoW or MMORPGs in general, but I strongly believe that you create your own experience within them, it's up to you how you want to play the game.

The solo potential in WoW is pretty good, but mind you that this also depends on the class you pick as well. Pick the Hunter for what is in my opinion the best solo class, and later on if you want to get into big dungeons delvings with a large group youll find that you and your pet can be a very powerful part of the group. Ive played other classes, but I always end up coming back to my Hunters (I have a couple of them specced different!)

My little sister who is 12 and has never played anything other than the Sims before recently picked up WoW and did just fine with it, so i think it's safe to say that it's pretty forgiving to newbies to the game and genre itself.

hehe "purrsonally". :lol:
Anyway, I actually agree 100% with everything xSamhainx posted. Except the sister part, of course, as I don't have one. ;)

[Acleacius]

I just read about the new EQ2 expansion and it astually sounds pretty dang cool, you can play a Fae. :)
I may have to try this, when I got out the max was 50th level, looks like you can ply to 70th now, could be a good couple of months of soloing fun apparently you can do the whole 0-70 in the new content. ;)

Found this on Blue's.
http://www.gamedaily.com/everquest-ii-echoes-of-faydwer/pc/game-reviews/5667

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Yes, I saw that as well, problem is that I can't get the Pre-paid cards for EQ here in Dublin :(

I've hit lvl 30 now with my elven Hunter, and levelled up several alts to over lvl 10, but am starting to find the game rather repetative. So I nagged hubbie until he grabbed a copy for himself (nothing like sharing the pain, is there? :) ) and we've been playing together. That has been more fun, but he's not really sold either, the "Kill 20 rats for 7 tails" quests turn him off, after playing Guild Wars for so long. :(

at the moment I can't see either of us renewing WoW after my prepaid card run out (his first free month). It is fun in the beginning, but once things (levelling, gaining new skills and so on) slow down, all there is is the "kill 10 orcs and collect their ears" quests :(
Truth to tell, I can't see EQ2 being different, maybe we should look into playing some singleplayer games coop...

[Acleacius]

"Pre-paid cards for EQ here in Dublin "
Do you have a friend in another city or country, whom will send you one?
They are about $15 US, iir.

"I can't see EQ2 being different, "
You are proabably right, though I can't say for sure since I never played WoW.
I know that there are some more completcated quests for more valuable items, which sometimes require you to get help, but are mostly for the most valuable items.
I know many people play WoW and say it's fun but I am not sure it's fun because the quest are easier allowing your to do more of them though I would imagine they are similar, as well.
The only thing besides the years of content, better crafing (I hear), houses would be the graphics.
It's a good looking game while many don't have to have the best graphics, it's a nice addition for a game to be better looking.

NWN 2 is the newest Coop game, I can't recall from the thread if you played NWN 1 but it would have the most content, atm.
Next on the list is the very buggy Dungeon Lords, though they did release a CE that reportedly fixes many problems, it like so many games recently was rushed out too soon, possibly a year too early in this case.
It can be a fun game with friends if your not taking it too seriously, though mostly a Hack and Slash most quest (if fixed) are great but they are acceptable.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Yes, I played NWN through several times, but hubbie is not into it at all, he holds a grudge against D&D from his P&P days I think :D He hates all the rules and restrictions, I believe.
I have NWN2 myself, but am waiting for it to get patched a bit more for reinstalling.
(Hubbie won't even install 2 on his PC)

I had the Dungeon Lords CE in my hands a while ago, but didn't pick it up, and picked up NWN2 instead. I wish now I'd picked up Dungeon Lords CE and left NWN2 for a few months, I might have gotten it cheaper ;) I looked for DL CE last week in town, but ofcourse they didn't have it anymore, maybe after christmas it will be in again.

If i really wanted to I could ask one of the guys at the local Game to order in the cards for me, I just wish I hadn't already used up my EQ2 trail-time a little while ago, when I chose to go for guild Wars instead.

Over christmas we won't be able to play together a lot anyway with the little one at home and staying up late, maybe we'll manage to pick up something nice in the January saless :)

[txa1265]

I had the Dungeon Lords CE in my hands a while ago
Bad
but didn't pick it up
Good
picked up NWN2 instead.
Excellent (except for your problems, of course)
I wish now I'd picked up Dungeon Lords CE
Bad
I looked for DL CE last week in town, but ofcourse they didn't have it anymore
Very good
maybe after christmas it will be in again.
I hope not ...

:D

[Acleacius]

The odds are txa1265 is right, though I did read one review about the CE saying it was acceptable now, but like I said it's a Hack n Slash.

Now the best possible outcome would be if the CE is decent and you could get it installed on both you and your hubby's machines, allowing you guys to possibly have a good game of Coop, if your hubby was intrested in this style of game.
There are several "if "s in there. :)

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

Personally, I liked the demo of the game. It ain't Morrowind, Neverwinter's Nights or KOTOR, but, I had fun with it.

Hubbiw would probably play DL, he does like Morrowind, Dungeon Siege and is still getting over his Guild Wars addiction :D I believe DL would be more up his street then NWN2.

Sorry, Mike, if I get another chance to pick the game up for 20 Euro, I will :D

[txa1265]

I reviewed both, and found that while the CE represents the 'Ultimate Dungeon Lords' ... it still isn't that great, and certainly not as good as I expected. You are correct about co-op, though - I've heard that is the way to go.

[txa1265]

Sorry, Mike, if I get another chance to pick the game up for 20 Euro, I will :D

I've probably knocked ~200 hours into it, and will likely play it again next year. Once I got past what it *should* have been and accepted what it was, I had much more fun. I feel that I like it much more than I should, and that my 3/5 reviews were overly generous ... that is why I warn people off.

[Sorcha Ravenlock]

I read your reviews on Gamerdad, and was weary of the game, I only downloaded the demo because a friend said he bought the game and was having fun with it. By that time the CE was out, and I was aware of the bad reviews and the fact that it was a dissapointment to a lot of people. So I went in with no expectations at all, no positive ones anyway :D
And then I actually had fun with it, and played the demo twice in a row! I felt the same way as you though, as if I was having a lot more fun then I should have had with the demo.
If i get 200 hours out of 20 euros... well, then I'm a happy bunny :) It is more then I got out of Oblivion, for sure ;)


This thread has gotten pretty much derailed, hasn't it? :D

[Acleacius]

I had fun playing it also, especially the Coop. :)

There is also a Tool now for DL which can fix many borken quest, replace lost items and almost anything.
I think it is even possible to get it to work on the Main character (one whom started the game, the Server) in a Coop game, so to some degree even the Coop game can be editied.
You can take alook at this thread if you wish to read some on it, you need MS NetFramework 2.0 which is very commonly needed program this days, think youget NetFramework 1.0 with Service Pack 1 or 2 whatever were up to with XP.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/dungeon-lords-93/new-dl-saved-game-editor-dungeon-lord-game-72087.html