Please post any news regarding patch #3 here.

[lostnumber]

I looked around the forum briefly and did not find any open threads centered around the discussion of patch 3. At the moment, all I know is that there will be a 3rd patch and that it will address a few combat related issues. As great as this is, it is obvious that there are a plethora of other problems as well as performance and content enhancements that are as of yet unaddressed. I know that there is a lot of news sleuthing talent here so let's put it to good use and fill this thread.

I may complain a lot but I haven’t given up hope! I apologize if there is another thread discussing this topic. Thanks!

[Danicek]

I'm pretty sure this won't be the last patch and I would say it will again fix only several bugs. I would expect some more substatial changes to come out later and make the game more balanced.

[JemyM]

I hope they manage to patch this up. Maybe they get another chance if they make a good expansion. I am not so sure we will see a Gothic 4 though.

[Danicek]

I wonder how well the game sells. I wish it sells very well because I would like to see this game fully patched and - of course - I would like to see Gothic 4 one day.

[txa1265]

I wonder how well the game sells.

I know in Germany it is already a huge hit, and I think it has sold well in Europe in general.

I wonder how it will sell in the US - I suppose it depends on how Aspyr does getting it to stores and how much the 'buggy mess' image hampers sales ...

[Corwin]

Sales in the US will depend on how much people are expecting/wanting Oblivion 2 instead of what they're actually getting!!

[txa1265]

Sales in the US will depend on how much people are expecting/wanting Oblivion 2 instead of what they're actually getting!!

I don't know about that - I look at a game like Bloodlines. It sold the worst of all Troika games, in part because the Vampire subject makes it non-mainstream, but also because of Troika's rep for buggy games. So people waited, and heard of bugs including the infamous boat-crash. And Troika died ...

[Danicek]

I know in Germany it is already a huge hit, and I think it has sold well in Europe in general.

I wonder how it will sell in the US - I suppose it depends on how Aspyr does getting it to stores and how much the 'buggy mess' image hampers sales ...

Yes, here in Czech Republic it sells very well (well if we measure it with other games, the non-pirate market here is still very small). It is good that they have success in Germany as well as in the whole Europe.

[Corwin]

I liked Troika's first 2 games, but I have to be honest and say I would never even consider buying a game about Vampires, no matter how good it was. Bugs I can handle, if they are eventually fixed, that's why I'm still annoyed about DL; many of the problems were not fixed!!

[stealth]

I can't help but ask but why are people so harsh on Oblivion all the time? Why being so protective of G3 and PB? From my perspective Oblivion was a solid game out of the box which hardly can be said about G3.

Right now I'm feeling like a jerk for buying the premium G3 CE and then have put it on the shelf for a month or two until they fix it. I'm really getting fed up with the attitude of let's just release it and then patch the bugs, if it sells well.

[ToddMcF2002]

I can't help but ask but why are people so harsh on Oblivion all the time?

That's an excellent question. Almost every complaint I've heard about can be addressed with an existing mod. I'll never understand why RPG'ers who generally like things complicated can't be bothered to download and install some simple mods. It more fun to complain I guess. :-/ Look people are already complaining about Dragon Age! :lol:

[lostnumber]

JemyM: If its due to a spoiler please be careful, but why would a Gothic 4 be unreasonable. I have yet to finish G3 so I don't know how the story for this installment wraps up. Does the story simply hit a wall in 3 or is it due to sales and PR issues? I really hope that it's the story because I have a lot of faith in PB's game producing ability.

Corwin: I really got to hand it to you; your patience must know no bounds. DL was a very negative experience for me. Waiting for it to get patched must have been tough. I played the US release right when it hit shelves, that game made G3 and DM look like they were developed through divine inspiration. I sold it back at a huge loss and never looked back.

[txa1265]

JemyM: If its due to a spoiler please be careful, but why would a Gothic 4 be unreasonable
I don't know about any spoilers, but poor sales pretty much doom a sequel regardless of quality. Look at the 'No One Lives Forever' - it was winning Game of the Year awards while sitting at $4.99 in bargain bins ...

Corwin: I really got to hand it to you; your patience must know no bounds. DL was a very negative experience for me.

I reviewed both the regular *and* Collector's Edition ;)

[Maylander]

It's the top game in Norway at the moment, and has had quite a few good 85-90% reviews entitled "Be prepared to cancel your social life for most of November" and so on.

[ShadowMoses]

I don't know about that - I look at a game like Bloodlines. It sold the worst of all Troika games, in part because the Vampire subject makes it non-mainstream, but also because of Troika's rep for buggy games. So people waited, and heard of bugs including the infamous boat-crash. And Troika died ...

I always had the opposite opinion, that being that vampires were pretty mainstream - Buffy and all that... plus not being a typical fantasy setting allows it to "hide" some of the negativity towards rpgs (stats and numbers etc.).

Anyway, being released the same day as HL2 wasn't the best idea! ;)

[Gorath]

That's an excellent question. Almost every complaint I've heard about can be addressed with an existing mod. I'll never understand why RPG'ers who generally like things complicated can't be bothered to download and install some simple mods.

Because some of Bethesda´s decisions show a lack of respect for their customers.
The interface suffers from consolitis. Modders fixed this within days - but why should a customer have to download a mod if the solution was obviously trivial? Bethesda never should have shipped the PC version without an optimized interface.
The German translation contains masses of bugs and incomprehensible abbreviations (written German is usually longer than English). It can only be correctly described with the word "incompetent". Modders fixed a gazillion bugs, more than 1500 AFAIR. Bethesda decided not to address the issue, even though it was clear they had insisted to do this part of the localisation in-house. The pretty good manual and voices were done by Take 2 Germany.
Then remember the first few downloable mini add-ons.

[txa1265]

I always had the opposite opinion, that being that vampires were pretty mainstream - Buffy and all that... .

That was my thought when I looked into the sales numbers, and apparently while the TV show was very popular RPG-ers want high-fantasy stuff, plus it was rated for adults in most locations.

[ToddMcF2002]

Oh come on Gorath. How many times do you think we got german text on the screen in the english Gothic 2 / NoTR? Plenty. At least Bethesda designed the game so that modders could go ballistic with high quality contributions. How much respect does Bethesda get for that? Not a hell of a lot. Read the official forums - they get spit in the face in the modding forum 24 hours a day and its sickening.

I'm no Bethesda fanboy, but bottom line is - Oblivion is pretty much fixed if you take the time to install some mods. That's a HOLY HELL of alot more than you can say for good ole broken ass Gothic 3.

[Gorath]

Oh come on Gorath. How many times do you think we got german text on the screen in the english Gothic 2 / NoTR? Plenty.
You have no idea how broken Oblivion´s translation was. It was much worse than overlooking 100 words in the whole game. It was "All your base are belong to us" niveau.

At least Bethesda designed the game so that modders could go ballistic with high quality contributions. How much respect does Bethesda get for that? Not a hell of a lot. Read the official forums - they get spit in the face in the modding forum 24 hours a day and its sickening.
That´s a shame. They deserve a lot of credit for their modding support.

I'm no Bethesda fanboy, but bottom line is - Oblivion is pretty much fixed if you take the time to install some mods. That´s not the point. Most users ignore mods. The only way everyone can get the full experience is if Bethesda delivers an official patch. Even if they only relabel a mod. Only box plus patches counts. The rest is optional.



That's a HOLY HELL of alot more than you can say for good ole broken ass Gothic 3. Well, we can talk about this in 6 months.

[ToddMcF2002]

That´s not the point. Most users ignore mods. The only way everyone can get the full experience is if Bethesda delivers an official patch. Even if they only relabel a mod. Only box plus patches counts. The rest is optional.


Well it sure is a big shame then. Its an awefully enormous achievement to not play because people won't consider mods. That is afterall, one of the chief advantages of the Besthesda open architecture.

Even playing some of the lighter rebalancing mods like Franscesco's you'll get your head handed to you pretty quickly ;) Risk reward! Obscuro is still king though - if anyone cares.

[Dr. A]

Well, Bethesda is getting a lot of flack because of quite a few things.

1) The hype - Dear God, the hype was ridiculous. I turned from anxious and eager to annoyed and cynical in a matter of weeks. Oblivions looks good but plays average.
2) The lies - They made numerous Fable-type statements and failed to deliver. Check the RPGCodex for the thread of Bethesda developer quotes. Hilarious and annoying at the same time
3) The mods - Having a CS is definitely great. But don't you think it's a bit funny that virtually all the top 10 mods are fixes? For UI, levelling, water, face textures, LOD textures, etc.
4) The dumbing down - Calling the gameplay "streamlined" is BS. The sheer amount of hand-holding (text popups, compass) and dumbed down content (dialogue, etc) in the game is ridiculous

I don't hate Oblivion but it is incredibly overrated. And at least with PB, they were honest with the gamers regarding Gothic 3.

Sorry for the rant :p As for patch #3, i guess it will be released at the latest a week before the US Launch

[ToddMcF2002]

Check the RPGCodex...

You mean....

you found something critical there?

[txa1265]

That´s not the point. Most users ignore mods. The only way everyone can get the full experience is if Bethesda delivers an official patch. Even if they only relabel a mod. Only box plus patches counts. The rest is optional.

That is why reviews all talk about 'vanilla' Oblivion - and why I mention the obvious conole bent in my review.

Official forums in general are a nasty place - been at Ubi's Dark Messiah boards lately?

Oblivion gets a lot of crap because it plays like a 'dumbed down console port'. Many people stop there and don't realize there is still a damn good game behind that dumbed down front-end. As soon as I stopped trying to think of Oblivion as a hardcore RPG I had much more fun - I don't think it is as good as the frothy-mouthed fanboys would say, but I've held the DVD near my car and it hasn't burned a hole through it as folks at the codex would have you believe ...

[mute]

Oh my god. I feel stupid. I love oblivion. Bought the CE version to my PC so i could get the making of DVD. :)

I like Gothic 3 too. But, as somebody said. "Is it up to the fans fixing the game..."
Whos fixing Gothic ... ?

Well, i do play games one time through than i move on. And I am in it for instant gratification and for some real life getaway.

Some like it some don't. I don't critizise either part, but if one saying the modders would have to fix oblivion, atleast we didn't have to wait for the developer!

[Dr. A]

You mean....

you found something critical there?

:biggrin: I admit the guys over at RPGCodex are incredibly anti-Oblivion/Bethesda but they do have some valid points. Check out their review of Oblivion. It's quite objectively written without resorting to either hype or hubris. I'm tired of major gaming sites awarding over-the-top scores, gushing over how the game is the greatest thing on Earth and how they would sacrifice your offspring to Bethesda in gratitude...hmmm, maybe not the last part.

For the record, i'm not anti-Oblivion. I think it's a good game but not great. Gameplay-wise a step down from Morrowind even though i found the latter boring.

As for Gothic 3, it would be nice if it was easily modded. Didn't PB mention something quite some time ago about how they would implement that?

[Arexen]

At this point the thing I like better about Oblivion is that it didnt stutter nearly as bad.

[Sem]

As for Gothic 3, it would be nice if it was easily modded. Didn't PB mention something quite some time ago about how they would implement that?

Yes, they said they would make a modkit, but wanted to make to kit easier to use, so the modders wouldn't need to be game developers to use it. But I guess they have different priorities now.

[Arexen]

"I admit the guys over at RPGCodex are incredibly anti-Oblivion/Bethesda"

Then that must be a great site finally some people with brains.

lol. Yeah I remember seeing gamespot gave it 9.6 or something like that, which was why I bought the game, and I remember thinking "9.6???"

[Horst Wessel]

I hate Bethesda for grabbing Fallout 3 license and just waiting for someone to come up with a better offer. By the time someone comes up to buy it out, people will forget about Fallout and the game is doomed.

[ToddMcF2002]

I thought Bethesda was in active developement on that. Am I wrong?

[Maylander]

I have to agree with Gorath on this one, it shouldn't be up to the fans to fix a game. Giving them an option to modify it is one thing - relying on them to actually make the game playable is another.

Also, I agree with Dr. As dumbing down point. I don't like being treated like a child, and I quickly got sick of the whole "an eight year old could pull this off" feeling I got in Oblivion. Morrowind may have had a dead world, but at least it gave players a certain amount of challenge from time to time.

[kalniel]

I love Oblivion for getting back to the proper Elder Scrolls feel, unlike Morrowind which shot off in a new style. However, I enjoyed Morrowind as well, just prefer Oblivion by a long way.

I also love Gothic 3.

And yes, Bethsoft are huge fallout fans and they are actively working on it - should be a killer game.

[Horst Wessel]

I reckon I must have picked up a wrong rumour somewhere- I would love to believe that Fallout III is in development. I remember reading, however, that Bethesda just invested into license in order to resale it to someone else... It was a recent article- but I can't find it now. Let's hope it was not more than someone's hysteria caused by the absence of updates.

[txa1265]

I reckon I must have picked up a wrong rumour somewhere- I would love to believe that Fallout III is in development. I remember reading, however, that Bethesda just invested into license in order to resale it to someone else... It was a recent article- but I can't find it now. Let's hope it was not more than someone's hysteria caused by the absence of updates.

I think that is not correct - in fact, wasn't it PC Gamer (US) that had a visit to the Fallout 3 dev area at Bethesda?

[kalniel]

*nods* think that may have been repeated in the UK PC gamer as well (though I can't remember the source) - they talked about how it's always a good idea to wander off to look at walls when visiting a game developer - they'd found a wall of concept art and stuff for fallout 3 at Bethsofts offices.

[HiddenX]

1.09 Beta ist out

ChangeLog:
Smartheap - Out of Memory Error Fixed
________________________________

That's all

Ambiente Sound Bug -> Not Fixed

[Gorath]

Final version coming soon. The only fix is the out of memory error.

[lostnumber]

I read somewhere on the Jowood forums that next big patch will be released in conjunction with the US full version. I suppose that this makes sense since it would provide customers with a reason to wait and to not buy the game from an overseas vendor and then patch it, in the end though it's nothing more than supposition I really hope that they continue to update and enhance the game; I would rather have it this way then wait for a problem solving expansion pack. Flame if you must, but I put the game down for a while in favor of waiting for a few patches to come out. I would rather play the game the way PB intended it to be played - or at least something closely resembling their intentions - than playing through incremental improvements. It’s a shame, but coming out and admitting that you've been stretched thin takes a lot of balls. In my eyes such an admission doesn't tarnish a company's reputation for excellence. In light of this, I would like to ask: What happened here? Without knowing much I would guess that Jowood simply set a deadline that had to be met; is this true? Regardless of the answer it really doesn’t change the fact that I already bought the game. I could easily forgive this if patches and content releases mitigated my grievances. With that said, does anyone have any info of future patching plans beyond 1.09?

[enodenroH]

Sales in the US will depend on how much people are expecting/wanting Oblivion 2 instead of what they're actually getting!!

Never speak in such a blasphemous tone again!!!
;)

[enodenroH]

Yes, they said they would make a modkit, but wanted to make to kit easier to use, so the modders wouldn't need to be game developers to use it. But I guess they have different priorities now.

Hello there.

Hum. I'm just curious to know. How many are they at PB anyway?

I don't have a clue but I remember them to be a lot smaller then BethSoft...
Anyway, it's just a thing about productivity... More manpower, more production.
Bethsoft bigger then PB... That about sums it up...

They were out of time. Forgive them.

[SlamDunk]

Current staff is about 20 persons - all but of one doing active development (designers, programmers, scripters, artists...).

http://www.pluto13.de/index.php?navtarget=2&lang=en

[enodenroH]

http://www.pluto13.de/index.php?navtarget=2&lang=en


I had 12 or 15 in mind but thought it wasn't right since I couldn't remember where I had seen that number.

I heard somewhere that Bethsoft were something like 100 souls under the roof.

I know it sounds crazy but I really think I've seen it somewhere...
Am I wrong?

[Sem]

Patch 3 has just been released.
It a small (all the other patches are included too) patch to fix the memory leak problem that caused corruption of save files on certain systems.

It appears that with 1.09 a new bug appeared concerning the "tief-unscharfe". I have no idea how to translate the word in english.
So unless you really need it, you might want to consider skipping this mini-patch.

I heard somewhere, maybe in one of their prelaunch video's... I remember something like 100 souls under the roof.


Uhh, no. 20 is correct.

[HiddenX]

Tiefenunschärfe = Depth of Field (DoF) - highest postprocessing setting

some players have problems with this setting after patch 1.09.

[lostnumber]

Wow... I was really expecting more out of patch 3. I suppose now would be a good time to ask if my expectations are realistic. Will there be additional patches and content releases, or will PB simply flatten the major bugs and more on?

[enodenroH]

I don't know about that - I look at a game like Bloodlines. It sold the worst of all Troika games, in part because the Vampire subject makes it non-mainstream, but also because of Troika's rep for buggy games. So people waited, and heard of bugs including the infamous boat-crash. And Troika died ...

Well, my opinion about buggy games is this :

If you know that you're about to sell an unfinished product, don't do it.
Polish it. You'll make followers and not loathers.

I never will be able to finish TOEE because of a recurring bug.
I am bitter towards them... Nonetheless, their game had a little -Je ne sais quoi...
It was fun while it lasted...

[Thaurin]

Wow... I was really expecting more out of patch 3. I suppose now would be a good time to ask if my expectations are realistic. Will there be additional patches and content releases, or will PB simply flatten the major bugs and more on?

I thought getting all the major bugs out of Gothic 3 was the priority for most of the guys here. What do you expect? New cities and NPC's every month? :) If this patch really does fix the memory leak bug, I'm pretty sure a lot of people will be very happy about this because I've seen them going crazy from the crashes and savegame corruptions on these forums. Anyway, I'm sure that this is just an interim patch and that they'll tweak and balance a lot more in upcoming patched. At least, they said they'd look at melee combat and a few other balancing things.

[Gorath]

Polishing games is probably very hard because the resources are so limited. Limited resources means more effort put into one feature = less resources for other features or less features.
IMHO a 30-40 hour long, carefully polished RPG would sell better than a 100 hour long raw diamond. But how do want to convince developers to cut things out?

[Pfandpirat]

Smartheap was an A-bug and many people especially on the german forums were demanding it cause they had a hard time playing with this bug.
I think it´s only normal that PB fixes the really serious bugs first before even thinking about some extra-content.

[Acleacius]

Remember they proabably will still have Patch 4 or a more fully developed Patch 3 at or close to US launch. :)

[Danicek]

Isn't actually the patch #3 already out there? (1.09)

[lostnumber]

Please forgive my selfish whining; I understand the need to abate the major problems before moving on to content and tweaking. As far as deciding what should be kept vs. cut goes I would argue that building upon the “polishing” theory would be best. I don’t have any game design know-how; but from my experience there are some elements to game design that matter much more than others. Obviously first and foremost, having a game that is not technically flawed is paramount to success.

To illustrate, it is widely known that warranty - or in this case warranty like - issues are directly related to future lost sales. In the manufacturing industry it has even been found that $1 in warranty issues can be seen as $24 in future lost sales (Managerial Accounting - Garrison Noreen Brewer ?pg.) Let’s assume that casual gamer Joe buys this game and tosses it because of the bugs, he doesn't know a damn thing about ini tweaking or memory leak issues or even patching for that matter. He just wants to play a game without worrying about fixing it. He is so upset with the game and realizes that there are many other great games to play that he resells Gothic 3 to a game shop for $10 and tells all of his buddies how much the game "sucks man!". We could easily consider this to be a $40 warranty issue, Joe's cost less his profit on the sale. If the trend in the manufacturing industry were mirrored in the PC game industry this sale of a poorly produced G3 presents the publisher with a $960 loss in future sales. Now let’s consider that single sale on a much larger scale. If 1,500 people do the same damn thing that Joe did, we have a new loss of about 1,440,000. The idea of nearly $1.5 mil in future lost sales due to publishing a poorly polished game should get someone's attention.

I know that this is an over simplification of a very complex industry and production/distribution process. I know that there are many ways to cover up a bomb, and that the figures stated above are purely speculation. Nevertheless, selling low quality products is never a good idea; nobody needs a degree or business experience to know that. When combining this warranty idea with the knowledge of how this series came to be what it is it becomes clear that the “polishing” theory is by all means a solid foundation for producing and publishing a game. Gothic 1 was much smaller, but as far as I am concerned it was much more fun. I’ve said it once and I say it again; if Gothic 3 took the place of Gothic 1 the series’ popularity would be nothing like it is today.

Personally, I think that valve is on to something with steam. I think that parallel development coupled with episodic content release is the future of PC gaming. Bypassing publishers has a great potential to increase the bottom line. Furthermore, the sale of episodic content is a great means for providing production capital to be used for the next big hit, and for keeping the market interested in a product line.

There, that's easier on the eyes.

[SirDeity]

I just ordered Gothic 3 and am expecting it any day now. I'd like to download all the patches for it now (before the game is here) so I can just install them immediately after I install the game without spending a lot of time downloading them first. Anyway, do I need to download all three (there are currently three of them, right?) of the currently released patches or only the latest patch? I'll rephrase the question: does the latest patch include all the patches before it or is it completely different, only meant to be installed after all previous patches have been installed?

Usually this information is provided at the site that hosts the patch, but I don't see it anywhere so that's why I'm asking here. Thanks! =)

[kalniel]

Your selfish-whining is forgiveable, your lack of paragraphs less so :p

It's a careful balance between sales lost due to buggy reputation and sales lost due to missing an important shopping period or through falling behind the competition.

Take Morrowind as an example. Daggerfall (the second game in the series) was buggier than a bug-invested bug thing. And I mean really badly buggy - far worse than any Gothic game. However, one of the key design changes for Morrowind was a completely new design process that Todd brought in specifically to address the issue. TES could have lived or died due to the state of polish in the next release. Morrowind took an age to develop, and it was delayed repeatedly. But when it came out it was a vast improvement on the previous games.

Of course it still had bugs, but the reputation for buggy games was more or less dispelled in just one release. Oblivion isn't perfect, but the sales on day one showed the confidence that people had in the polish of the product (and to my eyes, it's still very polished). The difference wasn't that Oblivion was delayed repeatedly (it had some delays, but nothing outside of expectations), but that it was worked from the start with a careful design procedure to minimise bug problems.

Gothic games don't seem to have nailed that aspect yet - I would guess it takes a very fundamental change in the design process of games that smaller studios can't implement easily (they might be used to their way of designing games). However, they are showing that they can address the most important issues very quickly. No matter how much internal bug testing you do, you can never catch everything. The save bug is a major problem for a lot of people and it would cause more upset if the fix was held up just to wait for more things to be included in a patch to make it seem like a meatier patch.

Finally I do agree that the cash flow of episodic (or subscription based) games makes things far easier for developers and publishers alike.

[kalniel]

I just ordered Gothic 3 and am expecting it any day now. I'd like to download all the patches for it now (before the game is here) so I can just install them immediately after I install the game without spending a lot of time downloading them first. Anyway, do I need to download all three (there are currently three of them, right?) of the currently released patches or only the latest patch? I'll rephrase the question: does the latest patch include all the patches before it or is it completely different, only meant to be installed after all previous patches have been installed?

Usually this information is provided at the site that hosts the patch, but I don't see it anywhere so that's why I'm asking here. Thanks! =)
It should include them all, but there were some mutterings on other forums that it didn't (may have been based on a beta patch, I'm not sure).

To be certain, download+apply patch 2 (which definitely *does* include patch 1 as well) and then apply patch 3.

[txa1265]

Your selfish-whining is forgiveable, your lack of paragraphs less so :p
Sad but true ... at least he uses case an punctuation ...

[SirDeity]

To be certain, download+apply patch 2 (which definitely *does* include patch 1 as well) and then apply patch 3.

Patch #2 is patch v1.08 and patch #3 is v1.09, correct?

(I wish I could read in german =) )

[kalniel]

Correct, sorry for not being clearer!

I'm pretty sure 1.09 will include 1.08 (which definitely includes 1.07) though.

[Pfandpirat]

Thats right, you only need 1.09, it includes all the previous fixes.

[chamr]

I think a major trend toward quantity at the expense of quality is exacerbating the problem with buggy releases, especially in the case of smaller development houses like PB. It seems a major selling point strategy of cRPG's these days is the content volume, touted in # of quests, square miles of world, and hours it would take to play through it all. While these are useful measurements of a games breadth, they seem to be more and more important in communicating the value the consumer should expect to get from purchasing the game. Obviously, this approach is serioulsy flawed. As I'm sure many would agree, I'd trade 600 quests that have very little variety or memorable characteristics for 100 well designed, interesting and challenging quests any day. Likewise, I'd be willing to give up a few square miles of world for more fleshed out NPC's and more impressive monster AI.

[Gorath]

I also prefer it that way. But PB made the conscious design decision to sacrifice depth for more freedom and a bigger world. They said they´re not 100% satisfied with the result and will revert the trend in the add-on though.

[lostnumber]

Chamr, I don't think that I could agree with you any more than I do. Your words express the crux of my ranting and complaints. Gorath, I find salvation in your news. Is there any word on how long it will take for the add-on to be developed? Will it sell as an expansion pack, or will it be released as a content update?

[mudsling3]

I second that. However I will support PB's honest efforts and experiments.

[Gorath]

PB said they want to make a normal add-on, and maybe an add-in like NotR after that. Downloadable content has been ruled out.
I would expect the first add-on next October. The artwork book talks about add-ons (pl.), so I think it´s safe to assume G3 was so expensive that PB, JoWooD and Deep Silver want to cash-in on the technology more than just two times.

[chamr]

But PB made the conscious design decision to sacrifice depth for more freedom and a bigger world. They said they´re not 100% satisfied with the result and will revert the trend in the add-on though.

They really came out and said that? Wow. Impressive for a developer to be so forth-coming right after release. And flexible about future direction, as well. Cool.

[Angelo]

PB could definitely make a smaller world and work on the quality instead. It really isn't any fun searching for some tools all over Myrtana :S . And G3 is full of such rubbish quests that only irritate you. In the end you are just confused and frustrated. G2 is a good example, it isn't near Oblivion by any characteristics and it's still an excellent game! You know exactly what, when and how you're supposed to do things (there are a few small quest buggs, but not nearly as irritating as in G3) and it's still full of surprises. Whilst G3 tryes to compete with Oblivion (why the hell? some of us already like G1/G2 better) and it just falls out buggy and unfinished. I don't know what they thought when they were making G3, but I would just like more of the same, like G1 and g2, and better, instead we just got a bit dull, laggy and buggy G3. I hope they can improve it a lot with patches.

[Corwin]

That's why I always wait a few days before using a patch!! I like to get feedback from others!!

[Gorath]

I don't know what they thought when they were making G3, but I would just like more of the same, like G1 and g2, and better, instead we just got a bit dull, laggy and buggy G3. I hope they can improve it a lot with patches.
I doubt PB will patch everything. There patch record for the older Gothics was okay but not really good.

Making "more of the same" is not attractive for a developer from an artistic standpoint. They want to move forward.

[Gorath]

They really came out and said that? Wow. Impressive for a developer to be so forth-coming right after release. And flexible about future direction, as well. Cool.
They anwered more than 100 often very critical question of the WoG community. Most answers were very open and some included the things a community doesn´t want to hear (paraphrased): "we decided the time we would have needed for feature AAA was better spent on other things", "we made the conscious decision to change BBB", "it had already been delayed for a year, all involved parties decided to release now", "we didn´t have enough time to adequately finish features CCC to NNN", "OOO was not finished soon enough to be included in the game", "Including PPP would have cost us several man months for a neglectable positive effect".

A rough translation can be found on WoG.

[Galerius]

Gothic 3 - Patch 1.09 Online (http://www.gothic3.com/index.php?do=0970991161051111100611101011191150381 10101119115105100061055051)

Changelog (http://download.piranha-bytes.com/gothic3/Changelog-109.txt)

[Cryshal]

If I have the US version, will I need the 1.09 patch?

[txa1265]

My check version on my new US version says 1.08 something - but that is just checking the exe.

[Gorath]

I just mailed Aspyr to ask about patch 1.09.

[Buzzsaw]

I just mailed Aspyr to ask about patch 1.09.

In the latest interview on the Aspyr site, in answer to the first question, Blaine C responds:
"Some great news for the patient North American fans though. The extra time has allowed us to implement all of the fixes and changes that are included in the first two European patches. When you buy the North American version of Gothic 3, just load up and play."

So that means US version is oatched thru 1.o8 only I would beleive.

[Gorath]

Aspyr confirmed that the US version needs to be patched to v1.09.




JoWooD´s community manager wrote he expects to receive a release date and a fix list for the 4th patch within the next two days.

[Corwin]

That's good news. I'm taking a short break from G3 to acquaint myself with NWN 2!! Why is it always feast or famine!! :)

[txa1265]

Why is it always feast or famine!! :)
Really - I can't do both at once and *really* experience the game ... so NWN is on the side for now ...

[JonNik]

JoWooD´s community manager wrote he expects to receive a release date and a fix list for the 4th patch within the next two days.

Very Good, just the info I was looking for (I was trying to be patient so
I could patch with the 4th one and restart the game rather than continue
with my current game but my resolve was wearing out :) )

Thanks Gorath.

[hwfanatic]

I'm not surprised at all that seven days passed without a word about the next patch. It's so typical. I just wanted to know if I'll have to restart the game once it is out, but they couldn't even reveal that. Way to go...

[Zaleukos]

I think devs should keep their mouth shut about patch dates, and just say that "it is ready when its ready". Promising delivery by a certain date will only cause frustration if there are delays, and there almost always are.

Patch content is another matter. Saying that "we have dealt with issue XXX" could, unlike giving out a date, actually help the patience of the community...

[lostnumber]

As an employee for a company who is facing a similar problem I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, when we did promise a patch on a specific date and then missed it we got reamed by our customers. In response to that we had to push the patch out the door in an incomplete state, the result was worse than missing the initial date. You would be surprised at how angry a highly paid lawyer can get when they feel as though they've been shafted, let's just say I didn't get a lot of pleases and thank yous that week.

[hwfanatic]

Nobody promised us a patch. A change log would be nice, but somehow I don't expect anything nice from them anymore.

[lostnumber]

Are you sure? I swear that I read something about a patch being promised sometime in Dec. '06.