Arx Fatalis...

[ToddMcF2002]

I didnt want to go off on an Arx tangent in the NWN2 thread so I'll post some thoughts here.

Several posters are saying it is one of the greatest RPG's ever made. I'd say its a love/hate relationship.

I'll start with the love: atmospheric, consequences, freedom of choice, fun combat. Great world concept.

Now the hate:
- scripted sequences that break the quest. No spoilers here - just a hint: You have to follow a certain "group" even though you know exactly where they are headed? If you run by them quest fails even though you arrive earlier! WTF?
- Levitation is beyond annoying and barely works.
- Jumping (required in some places) is painfully quirky.
- NPC's have very limited interaction. They make misleading statments like "let me know when you have an update" and there is no way to deliver an update since there are so few event triggers in the game.
- Armour penalties on magic have next to no effect.
- You have to eat but can't sleep.
- There is an unseamly pause before a death animation during combat. Bizzarre.

Overall I'd rate the game a 75%.

[enodenroH]

Not only that bro, they don't give much hints on what to do when you're lost...

I've stopped playing because I can't figure out how to place the runes in the Crypts even though I have the damned walkthrough!!! I can't figure out witch way to put them.

Anyway, you're on your own on this game. The devs just figured that we were all Einsteins and told themselves that it wouldn't be that hard to complete.

I raise my hat to those who have indeed beat the game. :cool:

[txa1265]

I agree - it is wildly uneven, but terribly charming and addictive.

I look at it this way - I played a mage and had no dexterity / athletics ability, so there was one jump in an area that you couldn't use Levitate in that was nearly impossible. I actually counted that I did the 'die & retry' at least *125 times* before making that jump - and the solution was to lower my resolution so that the pixel collision would favor me ;)

The lack of event triggers / hints made this one of the very few times I consulted a walkthrough ...

[Danicek]

I finished the game and really enjoyed even though it was annoying from time to time. I had walkthrough at my hand and consulted it from time to time (I do it very rarely but this game simply asked for it, I don't follow any rule on walkthroughs - sometimes a too long figuring what to do ruins the game for me).

[enodenroH]

I finished the game.

You're my hero. ;)

[txa1265]

You're my hero. ;)
Hehe ... I tell you, that jump I made is pretty near the end, otherwise I would never have finished. Haven't finished a second time, though.

[Prime Junta]

I finished it too. Twice. Loved it both times. Strangely, none of the things Todd mentions bothered me much, although I do have a vague recollection of dying of falls a lot...

[enodenroH]

You guys,

I really gave it a try. I put them in the order I first thought was right, then the one the walkthrough said and then, I stopped playing.................

Maybe one day, I'll give it another try... :-/

BTW, I wanted to write dumb but I can't change the spelling...

[ToddMcF2002]

Well its good to know I'm not the only one who thinks the Jem isnt exactly polished.

Literally, one day I love it and the next I'm ready to give up. Still playing though! ;)

[lostnumber]

125 times, are you serious!? I loved the game, but try 50 would have been my limit. I do know what you are talking about though, that lava pit was a bit frustrating to say the least. I can't really see what purpose that lava pit served for the Dwarves, but I'm sure it was important. I mean, who hasn't used a lava pit at least once in their lives?

On a different note, does anyone here know what Arkane's next move will be? I'm really pulling for an Arx 2. Those Goblins have a special place in my heart.

[ToddMcF2002]

Stop that spoiler boy!

[txa1265]

125 times, are you serious!?

Sadly enough, I am. It wasn't all at once - but I started keeping count. It was one of the early questions I had at the Dot. It took me a while to get to the past platform ... then forever to make it across.

[ToddMcF2002]

That sounds about right. I killed one of the cloaked guys and he got stuck in the doorway and the door after that failed to open. Reload. Reload. Reload.

Hard to believe this was a console release too. That must have been pretty interesting!

But the world has its draws like you've said - I feel like there are 1000's of tons of rock over my head! Its pretty engrossing.

[txa1265]

Really liked forging the weapons too its not as fun in Gothic 3 its too simple and fast they should make it more realistic and fun but when you forge it and you're done it lets you pick how many to do in a row.
They do have the multi-stage forging in Dark Messiah ... for *TWO* swords :rolleyes: ... completely under-developed ... but it is still a nice mechanic - heat & melt, pour, cool, re-heat, hammer, and combine with the handle ...

[Cm]

So glad someone started this thread. I loved Arx and played it about 9 times through. :lol:

[txa1265]

Hehe - you actually helped me with the jump problem (or at least tried - you referred me to one of the devs, and it was on some other boards I found the solution)

[Pfandpirat]

Arx Fatalis was a really hard nut, even today I get goose bumps when I think of that dwarven dungeon with all the lava and those shadow beasts hunting you.
When I think of that part of the game I feel the sudden urge to push the quickload button:D

[Corwin]

It was a great and fun game, but tough enough that your general FPS player probably didn't enjoy it. I have to agree that in places it was just a little challenging to figure out what to do next!! :)

[Jaz]

It was one of my favorite games of a few years ago. Sure, it was a bit on the tough side, but I really liked the game's atmosphere, the guards and the Ylsides.

[ToddMcF2002]

Well last night was definately a good night for Arx. It was scaring the piss out of me with those invisible grunts, growls and footsteps - especially with the EAX sound cranked up. I was panicking to go into combat mode and spinning around looking for someone to fight. Pretty freaky stuff!

[Hindukönig]

I hate the game for being called a "spiritual Ultima Underworld successor". It's far away from being that. Ultima Underworld had dialogues, a larger world, more diversity, a better plot and better characters and so on. I think it's even more atmospheric than Arx Fatalis. I had fun while playing Arx, but it left a stale taste of stupidness. And: Two times I had plotstopper-bugs which forced me to restart the game.

[Monolith]

I agree - it is wildly uneven, but terribly charming and addictive.

I look at it this way - I played a mage and had no dexterity / athletics ability, so there was one jump in an area that you couldn't use Levitate in that was nearly impossible. I actually counted that I did the 'die & retry' at least *125 times* before making that jump - and the solution was to lower my resolution so that the pixel collision would favor me ;)
Sorry, but this sounds like bullshit to me. Too "It's not a bug, it's a feature"-like. For me the frustration would be overwhelming. Good thing I never came so far...

[txa1265]

Sorry, but this sounds like bullshit to me. Too "It's not a bug, it's a feature"-like. For me the frustration would be overwhelming. Good thing I never came so far...

Bullshit as in I didn't actually do it? I really did, but as I said I played other stuff (shooters and some Sacred) in between ... but I never gave up.

But then if you knew me you'd know the levels of patience and persistance I possess ;)

[Corwin]

How can anyone say that Ultima Underworld had a better plot than Arx?? UU (a game I love) had no real plot; it was a dungeon crawl!! Arx had a much deeper and more complex plot!!

[Danicek]

But then if you knew me you'd know the levels of patience and persistance I possess ;)

Provided that you're dad, we would perhaps expact that. Every dad has to be very....

[ToddMcF2002]

Bah now I'm annoyed again. The game is outrageously difficult. Level 7 was a blast, but some rediculous demon dog came out of the wall in level 8 and somehow disabled all my fireballs and killed me in one swipe. That really sucks because I'm pretty much out of exploration options now. It took me so long to clear out the temple I'm lacking motivation to put the artifacts back together.

[txa1265]

Provided that you're dad, we would perhaps expact that. Every dad has to be very....

Yep - that was how I got involved with GamerDad a few years ago ...

[Jaz]

Bah now I'm annoyed again. The game is outrageously difficult. Level 7 was a blast, but some rediculous demon dog came out of the wall in level 8 and somehow disabled all my fireballs and killed me in one swipe. That really sucks because I'm pretty much out of exploration options now. It took me so long to clear out the temple I'm lacking motivation to put the artifacts back together.Getting rid of the dog was the most difficult puzzle in the game, at least for me. After that one it was more of a breeze :).

[ToddMcF2002]

Why have I lost my powers? Thats the most infuriating part.

[Ragnar]

I gave up on Arx...could not get past those guy on speed.:(

[ToddMcF2002]

Yeah I had to give up on that 5th level temple behind the barrier I dispelled. I killed the 3 guards outside the temple but the ones inside are unreal.

Honestly I don't get this game - its fun at times but the puzzles and opponents at times can be downright sadistic. I'm guessing it has a very low completion rate - which contributed to the lack of an Arx 2.

[Jaz]

You mean the temple Ylsides? Two fireballs/Ylside were enough to down them. I guess playing a battlemage might have been the best approach to Arx... :(

[Ragnar]

Maybe I'll try Arx again and use that approach…thanks Jaz. I did like the atmosphere of the game. But those guys were insane. Walk into the hall…spot a guard and try anything and BANG! He’s on me quicker than a starved rat in a manhole…and I’m nothing more than a speck of blood on the floor.

[ToddMcF2002]

You mean the temple Ylsides? Two fireballs/Ylside were enough to down them. I guess playing a battlemage might have been the best approach to Arx... :(

I'm guessing. Bunch of guys in plate armour running in a blur? I fireballed a few outside but I'm not sure they are all alike. Seems the ones inside are much tougher - but I could be wrong. The thing is I'm out of options. I have 13 Strength and I need ~13K additional XP points to get to level 7 and the all important 14 Strength. EVERY SINGLE goddam decent piece of armor and all decent weapons requires 14 Str. It really sucks. I think I'm screwed frankly.

[Corwin]

It's a tough game, but don't give up. Jaz is right, a Battlemage type is a necessity. I loved their magic system; it was a bold move which many hated, but I thought it really made the game more realistic!!

[ToddMcF2002]

I tried to build a battlemage. I have 65 / 46 close combat and defense. My Strength is 1 point too low because I jacked my magic ability up and left strength a bit light. Seemed like a good decision. Too bad the stats don't RELATE to each other! (meaning, I could have Strength at 9 or 14 and close combat at 65, pretty rediculous). That is pretty much a show stopper now. :(

I don't mind the magic system since I only have enough mana for 3 fireballs anyway. I'll try to XP farm the Ylsides I guess - I don't have much of an option at this point. If I can't beat them then the game is simply over - unless I cheese it up and start killing everyone in town which is pretty pathetic. I think I'd rather quit.

What really irks me is that I don't mind a hard game. G2/NoTR was hard - but if you gave it time and worked carefully it was perfectly doable. This game however, will just stop you dead in your tracks with no options. Poor design!

[Corwin]

It was Arkane's first game and yes, there are a few balance type issues, but most people who persisted eventually managed to complete it!!

[ToddMcF2002]

Tonight or tommorow I'll take one last crack at it. I'm sure if I restarted I could overcome the stat's issue I have right now and play through it in a few hours.

[Prime Junta]

It's one of those games you have to get a "feel" for. Strangely, I tend to play RPG's this way -- I tinker with a bunch of different types of characters, play about a quarter of the way through with them, then start over, until I hit one that "works" for them. Once you hit the right combo for Arx, it becomes very enjoyable. But yeah, it is frustrating as hell if you don't have it right.

[txa1265]

I guess i got lucky ... it was very difficult but I stuck it through, and all of a sudden it just worked.

[ToddMcF2002]

Well I havent given up yet. I do really do love the game when I don't hate it. That may sound strange but that's Arx in a nutshell! ;)

[txa1265]

Well I havent given up yet. I do really do love the game when I don't hate it. That may sound strange but that's Arx in a nutshell! ;)

So very, very true ... I just think of my 'jump issue' ... and I started playing again a few months ago but just don't have time.

[ToddMcF2002]

Yeah I thought of your jumping issue last night when I jumped some lava to activate the 8th level portal - I'm assuming that's not the jump you are referring to?

[enodenroH]

Yeah I thought of your jumping issue last night when I jumped some lava to activate the 8th level portal - I'm assuming that's not the jump you are referring to?


Well, from my point of view, that's not it either because 1) I'm really not good at jumping and 2) I managed to reach that teleporter. I almost died in the process, the lava sucking the life out of me, but I did manage...

After that, I didn't have a clue about where ta go next...

------- ... and one of these guys finished it 9 TIMES!!!!!!!!!:blush:

I have to finish it once just for my ego... :lol:

[txa1265]

Yeah I thought of your jumping issue last night when I jumped some lava to activate the 8th level portal - I'm assuming that's not the jump you are referring to?

Even if you had just said 'I jumped some lava to ... ' in that casual way I'd already know the answer is 'no' ;)

[ToddMcF2002]

Oh great more "fun" to look forward to.

BTW I noticed the 2nd level temple is populated again with some baddies. I'll have to revisit for some XP harvesting.

[Corwin]

Strangely, while I normally loathe and detest jumping puzzles (they ruined Ultima 8 for me) I didn't find the ones in Arx a problem. Maybe for once I just got lucky!! :)

[Cm]

Arx luckily kept the jumping to a minimum as I think they forgot to give any skills to help you jump. :D I hope the PDF is one of the files Gorath can move to here, that was such a big help with the game.

[ToddMcF2002]

So last night I really lost it. All the locked chests and doors, impossible snake puzzles and other various and sundry frustrations in Arx brought me to this. I save a pretty young girl and and the ungrateful twit has the gall to demand a magic shield in exchange for the world saving artifact??? Oh really?!?!?? I cleaved her head and massacred the whole camp. You know I HOPE that broke the game.

[JDR13]

Another underrated game. I loved Arx Fatalis. Yes, you do need to consult a walkthrough for a few things, but it's a great game. I remember there being a couple of XP exploits that allowed you to reach level 10.

[ToddMcF2002]

I don't mind hitting the PDF walkthrough as long as I've really tried to solve a puzzle with a decent hunk of time. Usually I can figure it out but there are a few in Arx that really are a bit overboard.

But my real annoyance last night was triggering the rebel camp encounter. How on earth was I supposed to know the girl was hanging out at the lake? Its not a "puzzle" and there is no real reason not to sort of direct the player there to advance the story line. I was teleporting all over creation trying to figure out how to advance the story :(

[Cm]

Arx is without a doubt almost impossible to play without the walkthrough. It can currently be found in the games database at rpgdot under support files. The devs admitted they didn't put near the clues and info into the game to make knowing where to go and how to get stuff done. The walkthrough is great and is what you should have gotten ingame. It increases in amount of hints it gives you, but you still have a lot of ways to do what your basic goal is. Arx seems to be a love of hate game. For me it was love, dispite the many flaws it had. :)

[Prime Junta]

I played it without the walkthrough.

[Loburian]

I played it without the walkthrough.

dang...you are a good player then...or very patient.

[ToddMcF2002]

If you played it without a walkthrough you are either a genius or retired. Theoretically I could have solved some of the thing I ended up looking up - given another 50 hours of gameplay. For Example:

1. Saving Shanny requires you to follow the cultists. If you bypass them the script kills the girl. Why? Bad design.
2. Finding the rebel leader requires you to stumble upon her at a specific spot in order to advance the story. No hints, nothing.
3. Operating the forge mechanism is a total joke. Makes no sense at all! On top of that, the required mold can't be placed accurately on the mysterious "left" side (right side doesnt work for whatever reason).
4. Having forged the uber weapon, what do you do now? This is where I am. I know the answer because I looked it up! Go to level 2 eh? Nice to know!

At this point I don't think using a walkthrough for Arx is a personal failing, rather a game design failing. On the other hand, some of the puzzles themselves, such as the snake levers were very clever and I couldnt solve it and eventually looked them up, those were my failings. The others are the games failings.

[xSamhainx]

I loved the game on one hand, yet hated it on the other.

That being because I had to play with one eye on a walkthru, which I only like to use as a last resort. I felt like I cheated thru the whole game!

Made me feel like a wee little tiger cub!

[txa1265]

At this point I don't think using a walkthrough for Arx is a personal failing, rather a game design failing.
I agree - PJ is one of very few I've heard do it without a walkthrough ... at first I felt worthless and weak ...

[Cm]

PJ is the only one I have heard of that didn't use some aspect of the PDF file. Though I never bothered going to any other of the boards.
I found using the maps and the keys for them in it, let me sort out most stuff without reading the story part of the walk-through. I felt vindicated by working an area on my own first and then consulting the maps to see if I missed anything. It is one of those games you can not have enough save slots and saves. lol

[Corwin]

Yep, definitely a poor design decision, but at least they admitted that later. It's the devs who make poor decisions and then who don't admit to it that I try to avoid!! AF was perhaps just too ambitious!!

[elkston]

On a different note, does anyone here know what Arkane's next move will be? I'm really pulling for an Arx 2. Those Goblins have a special place in my heart.

Well it is quite obvious to me that what eventually became Dark Messiah of Might and Magic was originally intended to be Arx Fatalis 2. In the cheat codes for the game many of the weapon models have the string "arx" in them. There are also a few Arx "staples" like the cooked ribs and the active use of game objects to create things such as making swords.

It is very clear to me that Arkane was working in earnest on Arx2 and then UbiSoft gave them an offer they couldn't refuse with Dark Messiah. Hopefully they have some resources and leverage now to actually complete Arx 2 like they were planning.

[elkston]

You mean the temple Ylsides? Two fireballs/Ylside were enough to down them. I guess playing a battlemage might have been the best approach to Arx... :(

Yeah. Even when I played through Arx as a fighter (the first time), I used fireball scrolls to take down or weaken the Yslides. They were just too fast for me battle
toe-to-toe even though I was pretty much maxed out on fighting skill.

Truly fearsome opponents!

[Jaz]

Well it is quite obvious to me that what eventually became Dark Messiah of Might and Magic was originally intended to be Arx Fatalis 2.I saw the guards and thought : ARX! :)

[MonGoliat]

Ive only played the Demo of the game. It look REALY nice, but i cant get a hold of the complet game... Ive looked in every PC-game shop there is in my home town and the place I study. argh..!

For norwegians:
Er det noen som vet hvor jeg kan skaffe Arx Fatalis I nærheten av Lillesand eller Kristiansand?

[Stanza]

It is very clear to me that Arkane was working in earnest on Arx2 and then UbiSoft gave them an offer they couldn't refuse with Dark Messiah. Hopefully they have some resources and leverage now to actually complete Arx 2 like they were planning.

Am I the only one who hopes they ditch Source and reuse the original engine for Arx 2?

[txa1265]

Am I the only one who hopes they ditch Source and reuse the original engine for Arx 2?

Why? The degree of interaction and capability that is possible is just amazing with Source - now that they got the 'tech demo' out of the way with Dark Messiah, they can get down to business with Arx 2!

[ToddMcF2002]

BTW I managed to figure out the "DOG" on my own and I did the lava jumps with only 2 or 3 saves. That earns me 2 free PDF peeks!

[Cm]

I would say it earned you a few peeks. :lol: I must have tried at least 8 before I got it. And even with that I never got it the first time out on any of the replays I did. :)

[enodenroH]

[MonGoliat - Ive only played the Demo of the game. It look REALY nice, but i cant get a hold of the complet game... Ive looked in every PC-game shop there is in my home town and the place I study. argh..!]

Have you tried ebay?

That's how I got Arx!

[Jaz]

BTW I managed to figure out the "DOG" on my own and I did the lava jumps with only 2 or 3 saves. That earns me 2 free PDF peeks!

You're a genius! I must have tried 1000 times :lol:. And I had to look into the walkthrough more than once or twice.

[ToddMcF2002]

Well this 'genius' had to hit the PDF last night to find the 5th meteor rock. I figured it was in there but I had no freakin idea how to get it :(

[txa1265]

Well this 'genius' had to hit the PDF last night to find the 5th meteor rock.:(

Arx has this way of humbling all of us ;)

[ToddMcF2002]

Thankfully I'm pretty much at endgame. If I had to rate it now I'd give it a 90% off the bat but have to deduct 10% for frustrating design decisions. Given the fact that the PDF exists I think it deserves an 80%. Without that companion I'd take an additional 10% off because I'm guessing at least half of the people who would play Arx would find it impossible without some assistance.

I'd also guess that the game has the same "stuck" points for most people and there are maybe ~6 of them. Someone adventuresome with the PDF could put a "Spoiler Hint FAQ" in that would guide people to the answer without spoiling a bunch of other stuff in the process. For example - I learned way to much from the PDF trying to find the reference to the missing Meteor rock. If there was a "Spoiler Hint FAQ" entry for 5th Meteor Rock that wouldnt have happened.

That's not a dig at the PDF by any stretch - just a nice to have addition. It would really help Arx and at the same time preserve the Arx mystery which is one of the chief features of the game.

[Cm]

I used the maps as a spoiler hint FAQ. I read the list of thinks listed under each map if I got stuck or couldn't find an object. I agree with you however that would have been great to have. However I think Garret did a great job with the file considering he volunteered his efforts.

[ToddMcF2002]

Oh I agree, which is why I said it wasnt a dig at the PDF by any stretch. Heck I would have given up by now without it.

[Stanza]

Why? The degree of interaction and capability that is possible is just amazing with Source - now that they got the 'tech demo' out of the way with Dark Messiah, they can get down to business with Arx 2!

Because I'm turning into a crotchety old fart with too much nostalgia.

And I'm afraid of ending up with an Arx 2 where pre-scripted physics gimicks trump story, dialog, exploration, and all of the other things I look forward to in a good RPG.

[Hindukönig]

How can anyone say that Ultima Underworld had a better plot than Arx?? UU (a game I love) had no real plot; it was a dungeon crawl!! Arx had a much deeper and more complex plot!!

Sorry, but just think of how you came into the whole mess in Ultima Underworld. You were imprisoned to rescue a girl but had to discover that the bad wizard guy was in fact the good guy who wanted to prevent the real bad guy. That's what I call a cool plotwist.
Then consider the different races, their characters, etc. The backgroundstory that holds them together! The big wizardschool! The ghouls!

In Arx Fatalis, you wake up with no memories (yawn), discover that you're the chosen one (YAWN), and you have to prevent an evil sect (yawn) from calling a monster that's going to destroy the world (yawn).
And consider the different races here. They are boring and stupid, with the honorable exception of the goblins. Think of the ratmen - they didn't have anything what I would call a civilization. It was ... broken.

Meh.

[ToddMcF2002]

Well I finished Arx last night. I got stuck one last time on the "Lost Souls" (aka levers from hell) crypt level. Even with the PDF it took me almost an hour to get the sequence. The symbol floor puzzle was very cool, and I liked the pointing statue - but the levers in the "Lost Souls" area was just friggin obnoxious! Otherwise the crypts were great.

Apparently my rampage in the rebels camp cost me - I finished at level 8 and left a bunch of dangling quests because, well... everyone was dead! ;)

Anyway... great finale and I liked the ending. My score is unchanged - 80%.

[elkston]

Arx Fatalis is no Ultima Underworld, it simply doesn't have the detail or scope to compete. However, despite its limitations the game dripped with atmosphere and had plenty to offer, IMHO. In the end I wanted more, just MORE!

Plus I think Arx had the best crypts of any 3D CRPG I have played. You truly felt alone in those cold, dark chambers.

...and ALICIA!!! That stuck-up little twit!

"...Work? Why should I work when I am going to be FABULOUSLY RICH!!!!"

[Corwin]

I'm not comparing UU and Arx as games, that would be unfair to both. Perhaps 'story' is personal, but I enjoyed the 'story' in Arx more than the one in UU. I treated UU as a dungeon crawl more than anything else. UU2 on the otherhand had a fantastic story!!