Gothic 4 - First Look @ Gamespot

[woges]

Gamespot have had a look at an early build of Gothic 4 giving a little more info (http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic4/news.html?sid=6191191) on the game.
Arcania picks up ten years after the events of Gothic 3. The Nameless Hero from the original games has vanquished the orcs from the land and has ascended to the throne. But as the king, our former hero has become consumed with power and is no longer held in favor by much of the population, including the Witches of Fate that started him on his noble journey in the first place. Betrayed, the witches find a new Nameless Hero, most likely a humble fisherman, and charge him with righting the wrongs of the new king. Of course, being a Gothic game, you can do pretty much whatever you want, be it join the king, overthrow him, convince him to change his evil ways, or set up shop as a mercenary and mind your own business.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=9027)

[JDR13]

Ha!

To all those people who were so sure that we would be playing the same nameless hero again.

I like what I'm hearing about G4 so far....

[curiously undead]

ha!
to the witches of fate
this game will be on consoles
and probably with a teen rating

i never thought they would use the nameless hero by the way
as difficult (impossible) as its going to be for the gothic franchise to be continued/saved by someone other than pirahna bytes, it would be twice as hard if they didn't go the spinoff route, where they can and will do pretty much as they please.

oh and i'm looking forward to the gothic picnic

and actually if these 'witches of fate' otherswise known as a deus ex machina, are somehow going to play a role in the addon, well then looks like i will have ended my gothic career with those 2 fabulous playthroughs of gothic 3 of 2006.

[mudsling3]

"And gaining popularity in the good old US-of-A is goal one for Dreamcatcher. The team invested months of research into the differences between European and American gaming preferences, so much so that there will be two different color palates for Arcania: North American (bright and beautiful) and European (muted and gritty)."

"Bright and beautiful" like Oblivion... a sure way to f*&k it up :(

[Corwin]

What's this game called? In the first half it's Arcania, while in the second it's Arcadia!! Anything containing the name Dreamcatcher is a total NO GO area for me; DL was enough to last a lifetime!!

[JDR13]

I love how so many people seem to be flushing G4 down the toilet before even playing it. If you're so sure it's going to be terrible then just don't buy it and stop posting about it.

[curiously undead]

but we love you jdr, and would hate to see you waste your money as well

[JDR13]

*sigh* Why wasn't I born with the power to see the future like so many others here seem to have.

...I feel so cheated...

[curiously undead]

don't worry i've seen the future and you'll be happy to know you have many fine talents that may even save us all some day

[curiously undead]

to be serious for a moment which i can assure you is much less fun than being curious
while i can't speak for anyone else, i personally have recinded any kind of benefitofthedoubt from jowood/dreamcatcher now? as not only did they not develop the gothic games, they didn't even publish the original (my favourite) that was xicat. we did however in the us have to wait a terribly long time for gothic 2, and even longer for the addon. how on earth that is the pirahnas fault and not jowoods i would love to see. and we won't even need to talk about the tangled chaos of gothic 3, which at the end of the day, as they say, i enjoyed.

so with jowood, et al, blacklisted in my book, the 'story so far' on news of the upcoming games, makes bethesda look good. and in rpg terms i can't think of too many other who could claim such a title.

that said, i have nothing against spellbound who could do wonders and turn 'water into wine', though even if they are fans of the game, they don't really have to much experience in the rpg market, let alone a mature one like gothic. and while a new direction is fine to take with the franchise. the same attitude, and overall harshness absolutely need to be preserved for it to be a gothic game in anything other the name.

[JDR13]

so with jowood, et al, blacklisted in my book, the 'story so far' on news of the upcoming games, makes bethesda look good. and in rpg terms i can't think of too many other who could claim such a title.


Well that is your opinion I guess....

[Gorath]

What's this game called? In the first half it's Arcania, while in the second it's Arcadia!! Anything containing the name Dreamcatcher is a total NO GO area for me; DL was enough to last a lifetime!!
There is no Dreamcatcher. They have been consolidated into JoWooD. Some of the management let go, the company restructured, at least one subsidiary closed. Now they´re just the NA branch of the JoWooD Group.

That article is weird. Arcania ... Arcadia ... maybe an XBox 360 version. Seems the author was assigned to listen to some marketing manager for an hour and then write a summary. So I wouldn´t believe anything in this article that´s not confirmed somewhere else.

edit:
Gamespot has 29 pics in the gallery. Maybe some of them are new.

[Turjan]

What's this game called? In the first half it's Arcania, while in the second it's Arcadia!!Well, Arcania is probably the grim and gritty European version, while Arcadia is the bright and cheerful US one :D.

I can't help it. While this distinction looks commercially sound, I somewhat worry about the execution. There will be many people who will want to have the respective other version. Although, from a budget standpoint, the differences might not be as pronounced as they want us believe to be.

[JDR13]

It was obviously a typo, there are not 2 different versions.

[Corwin]

Yes there are, READ the article!! :p :)

[JDR13]

Yes there are, READ the article!! :p :)


You must be refering to the different color palettes for the NA and European versions.

I was talking about the name typo...Arcania\Arcadia.


Very stupid idea btw to have 2 different palettes, it's just going to delay development imo.

[Corwin]

He made the 'typo' error several times!! Two pallettes is moronic IMVHO!!

[Wulf]

Re quote:-
[hopes that fans of the epic RPG genre will eventually see Gothic in the same bright light as Oblivion]

....ugghhh...yuk...spew! :tears:

[Roi Danton]

Meh, The hope I have for that game isn't based on Jowood but rather on Spellbound, who made some damn good games (Desperado 1 & 2). So I just hope that they can deliver a fun to play rpg.

[Remus]

You would be able to dance around and singing with birds in the North American version.

[Hindukönig]

The team invested months of research into the differences between European and American gaming preferences, so much so that there will be two different color palates for Arcania: North American (bright and beautiful) and European (muted and gritty).

I can't stop laughing. They researched GAMING preferences and came out with different COLORS? Why not just making a changeable skintheme for the GUI, goddammit .... (like Deus Ex!)

And I can't believe that they think changing some features won't change the core gameplay. They obviously trying to create Oblivion II. Hell, why are they even calling it Gothic ...

[titus]

So former developer Piranha Bytes is gone, replaced by Spellbound Entertainment in hopes that fans of the epic RPG genre will eventually see Gothic in the same bright light as Oblivion
didn't even felt like reading further after this part. I never played oblivion but I heared it enough Oblivion and Gothic are almost 2 opposites. I already fear the next gothic.

The new setting with the new unnamed hero seems got, although it will be weird to play gothic with an other protagonist.
But the idea of the "normal classes" in gothic. Mmmm I don't know??

[Gorath]

The IGN preview has more detailed infos. Seems the NA & Euro versions are only different in a couple of filters creating a more colourful or more gritty look.
The handholding features can be disabled. They call this "Gothic mode". :p

[DArtagnan]

They're going to have two color schemes in an attempt to please both audiences? This is sounding even more horrible than I imagined...

What's next, are they going to have a linear/non-linear setting so those who prefer shallow gameplay can have that too?

Whatever happened to having an artistic vision and going with it, instead of desperately trying to target as many people as you can.

[DeepO]

Whatever happened to having an artistic vision and going with it, instead of desperately trying to target as many people as you can.

For the last five years, I've been asking the same question.

As for Arcania, Arcadia and Arcanium discussed in this thread, so far it's clear they will suck, all three of them. Unless, of course, developers would stop being spellbound by gain and submit to the artistic pain instead. Right now they're catching the wrong dream.

[Turjan]

They're going to have two color schemes in an attempt to please both audiences? This is sounding even more horrible than I imagined...
I don't think this is bad per se, as long as you would be able to change the palette in the settings according to your personal preference. I'm not against choice, if the choice isn't forced on me according to where I live.

[DArtagnan]

I don't think this is bad per se, as long as you would be able to change the palette in the settings according to your personal preference. I'm not against choice, if the choice isn't forced on me according to where I live.

It's not the choice itself, as it would have no influence on my enjoyment at all.

It's the fact that they implemented such a choice that is extremely revealing about their thought process. They're making a Gothic game, and yet they actually want to implement bright and happy colors because they don't want to push anyone away.

To me, it's like saying they're making a game based on what they THINK people want, instead of what THEY want to make. The latter requires an understanding of game design and artistic integrity - the former is a sure-fire sign of having no vision beyond the acquisition of wealth.

If they were really making a Gothic game, they'd make it with one color scheme - the right one. Gothic was always about a plausible game world, and it's pretty obvious that it should never be bright and gay in appearance.

[titus]

I do agree with dartagnan, the colours of Gothic were a big part of the scene, of the setting, bringing you in the right mood. Try this with vivid colours like i Mario :p and it is not the same anymore

[Turjan]

If they were really making a Gothic game, they'd make it with one color scheme - the right one. Gothic was always about a plausible game world, and it's pretty obvious that it should never be bright and gay in appearance.
It's pretty obvious that the "right" color scheme doesn't sell in NA. At all. The first time I saw Gothic 3 in a store, it was already budget priced (I think the release price was $30). With the cost of game development today, I can understand that they don't want to give up on the NA market completely.

This said, I will only be ok with this if I have the personal choice in this matter. And, of course, the game contents should be interesting. I don't need another Oblivion, with pretty graphics, rudimentary interface and boring contents. But the color scheme is something that's not that important to me (I got used to bright colors from BG on), and if I get the choice, I'll be happy.

[titus]

I fear it with will be oblivion with a little snuff of gothic in it.
Or maybe Gothic with too much oblvion in it.
I guess the only one capable of making the real successor to Gothic will be PB. I hope their RPG (that is how they are calling it, isn't it?) will be that one. or atleast in spirit even if it isn't the continue of the series. I fear that I will have to say that G3 was the end of it.

[DArtagnan]

It's pretty obvious that the "right" color scheme doesn't sell in NA. At all. The first time I saw Gothic 3 in a store, it was already budget priced (I think the release price was $30). With the cost of game development today, I can understand that they don't want to give up on the NA market completely.

This said, I will only be ok with this if I have the personal choice in this matter. And, of course, the game contents should be interesting. I don't need another Oblivion, with pretty graphics, rudimentary interface and boring contents. But the color scheme is something that's not that important to me (I got used to bright colors from BG on), and if I get the choice, I'll be happy.

I don't doubt that they're doing what they can to suit the markets, but let's just say I STRONGLY doubt the color scheme of Gothic 3 was the reason it didn't sell more units.

If they intend to change the game further in an attempt to sell more units - which I'm positive they will - then that's good for them. But it won't be Gothic and it'll basically be selling out to make a buck. JoWood + new developer + this kind of decision = compromising the franchise to make money.

I personally have no intention of supporting that kind of direction, even if it's understandable from a business point of view.

I think the first two Gothics were good enough that the series deserves better than this, but oh well. It's just another potential gem down the drain - what else is new.

[Majnun]

All I can say is thank God for GoGamer.com.

I'll be importing the dark gritty EU version. Hopefully it will be in english or have it as an option at least.

[booboo]

It also find it somewhat dubious that the reason that Gothic didn't sell in the US was because it had a "gloomy" pallete. There have been may other gloom-themed games and this was never trotted out as a reason for poor sales. The other reasons (marketing, distribution etc ) that other have referred to in the past seem way more plausible. If I was NAmerican I'd be quite insulted that some have such a low opinion of my game selection ablities "gee, this game is like all dark and dreary...I want bright colours! So what it's grim and evil? I want bright colours!!!" :biggrin: I wonder who they got to do their market research? Perhaps a kindergarten class ;)

[Thaurin]

FYI, Arcadia is the alternate magical world in the The Longest Journey games. Probably the reviewer accidentally mixed them up.

[Turjan]

If I was NAmerican I'd be quite insulted that some have such a low opinion of my game selection ablities "gee, this game is like all dark and dreary...I want bright colours! So what it's grim and evil? I want bright colours!!!" :biggrin: I wonder who they got to do their market research? Perhaps a kindergarten class ;)
Other than a self-selected board of CRPG enthusiasts ;)? I just think of the people I know who play pen & paper RPGs and absolutely love Oblivion. They play it on a console, because it's easy to do and "family-compatible". They think I'm weird when I say that I don't care for the game. Of course, I understand that none of you wants the next Gothic to be an Oblivion copy. I don't want that, either. But nevertheless, I don't doubt the company's results about market preferences.

Well, the point that the game looks drab was raised in some reviews. But I agree that other aspects are responsible for the complete failure of Gothic in the US market. With Gothic 3, it was already known from the European release that the game is a bugfest, which limited its chances from the release on. I can understand that the company doesn't talk too much about it in interviews. Although a sentence like "This time we will eliminate most bugs prior to release" would be reassuring, although I doubt we will hear it in this form.

Actually, I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to release any new game with "Gothic" in the title on the US market. It might draw customers in Europe, but in the US, it serves as a warning sign. I can imagine that they will drop the second half of the title for the US release.

[Turjan]

FYI, Arcadia is the alternate magical world in the The Longest Journey games. Probably the reviewer accidentally mixed them up.
I like the mix-up with Arcadia, because that's the Greek province that has been used to describe pastoral idylls since antiquity, and this is exactly the image that I get when I look at the screenshots :). As a benefit, it's also known to D&D and Planescape fans.

[Rendelius]

For me, Gothic 3 killed everything I liked about Gothic. And lets face it - they will never be able to get back to what Gothic once was. I don't care about how the next game is named or which color palette it has - I care about if it is good or not. If it's good and has some sort of Gothic setting, fine.

And for them making it an Oblivion II: Well, if they manage to avoid the mistakes Bethesda has made (everything leveling with you) and if they manage to embrace the good things (open world), nothing against that. I am stilll sinking a considerable amount of time in a modded Oblivion and still have fun with it.

[MudsAnimalFriend]

Someone has to take over the Elder Scrolls franchise now that Bethesda is busy on Fallout. I saw a scavenger the other day... disgusting creatures.

Gladman elaborated on the more user-friendly approach. "That's one of those things that's more North American-centric. A map that hand-holds you through... which you can turn off if you want to." Both Gladman and Podilchuk went on to talk about how if players dislike any kind of UI or map assists it all can be turned off. It's called Gothic mode, apparently, and is being implemented for the hardcore German audience.
I weep.

[woges]

That name change... I just can't get Edmund: A Butler's Tale by Gertrude Perkins out of my head.

[zakhal]

Gothic series has never sold well in US iirc. Sounds like they are getting desperate to figure out reasons why. Perhaps the game is too unforgiving and hard. The dark setting just amplifies it.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

The team invested months of research into the differences between European and American gaming preferences

Now THAT could be interesting - as a study in itself. This is something I would really looking forward to read.

[titus]

well the conclusion was: they like different colours :p

[Alrik Fassbauer]

No, seriously, I meant if they *really* did intensive research, then at least *something* must've come out of it ...

[Turjan]

Gothic series has never sold well in US iirc. Sounds like they are getting desperate to figure out reasons why. Perhaps the game is too unforgiving and hard. The dark setting just amplifies it.
I think that the number one reason for negative reviews was the game interface of the first two titles. It was non-intuitive, and the mouse was sorely missed. I already hear the answer "But you have to learn the interface for every game!". While this is true, there is a certain threshold where many people just give up, and then they write bad reviews ;).

Gothic3 didn't sell because the message of those horror bugs crossed the pond before game release. I don't think brighter colors would have changed that.

Edit: One other point nobody mentions is the name of the game. "Gothic" sounds like horror, which might address the wrong casual buyer.

[Turjan]

No, seriously, I meant if they *really* did intensive research, then at least *something* must've come out of it ...
Yes, I would also be interested in hearing the results of some real research. I can only go from my own experiences with avid gamers from both sides of the pond, but these experiences are necessarily biased and not representative.

[Gorath]

I think that the number one reason for negative reviews was the game interface of the first two titles. It was non-intuitive, and the mouse was sorely missed. I already hear the answer "But you have to learn the interface for every game!". While this is true, there is a certain threshold where many people just give up, and then they write bad reviews ;).
True, but I guess it was hard to foresee that the many reviewers outside the German market would be so unflexible to blame a game which takes a standard combat control system and builds upon it. Everybody knows how to control a FPS. You run with ASDW + mouse and initiate the action with the mouse buttons or CTRL & ALT in the good old days. In Gothic you also initiate action with the a mouse button (LMB), or alternatively with CTRL, but then you have to chose your action with the movement keys.
It´s really simple - but developer and publishers failed miserably at communicating this.
The trade interface was rubbish though.

Edit: One other point nobody mentions is the name of the game. "Gothic" sounds like horror, which might address the wrong casual buyer.
Also correct, IMHO. It has been brought up before, but people tend to forget it.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

"Gothic" sounds like horror, which might address the wrong casual buyer.

Yes, this is a point. Hearing of the game in the first place, I was quite distracted by the (this) title.

@Gorath: I always liked the trade interface after I had learned it. It even appeared as almost "natural" to me, then.

It was rather bartering to me than "real" trading.

I'm speaking of Gothic 1, by the way.

[Squeek]

I've always been surprised at how few people reconfigure controls. Gothic's interface worked very well for me after I remapped the keys.

It worked so well that I reconfigured Freelancer's controls to work pretty much the same way (space shooter), and I became sort of infamous for PvP on some multiplayer servers. The number one reason was that I reconfigured the controls while just about no one else did.

It's never difficult; it usually takes only a minute, and it's always a lot easier on your wrists.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I think I should add that of the Gothic 1 trading window the only thing that annoyed me was that the balance in the value of the wares was not made *automatically* .

It was as if the traders remained so passive that I had to "draw the stuff out of their pockets" to keep the balance of the value.