Brand New to Gothic. Questions on Class/Character Build for Gothic 1 [Archive]

Rills

July 6th, 2008, 04:32

I just bought Gothic Universe that contains all three versions plus the expansion pack to G2. I will soon install Gothic 1.

I am not a stranger to RPGs: BG1 & 2, NOX, Divine Divinity, Neverwinter Nights 1, Morrowind, etc., but I really don't much about Gothic other than a few things I have read. Gothic Universe doesn't come with any manuals other than what I assume what is included on the disks.

All of the above allowed the possibility of multi-classing or character builds that allowed mixture of several class skills on the game mechanics.

In Gothic, is your hero basically limited to one class? For example, I don't like playing a straight mage, but I really like serious magic being able to supplement my fighter. And if I am a fighter I also like to use ranged weapons.

So my questions are as follows:

1. If I choose to go fighter is it possible to have magic skills and range skills or will I be spreading too thin?

2. In your opinion, what makes for a wise hero build?

Thanks!

Bartacus

July 6th, 2008, 12:52

First things first: In Gothic you don't make the choice from start on. You have a predefined loser and you chose your own way. You can play it as a mage, but that path is only later on available. Everyone has to start out as just a normal dude with a stupid sword. I like that idea, others don't.

1. As a fighter you can always use the spell scrolls, but not the runes. Runes do the same kind of magic, but you will keep them after you use them.

2. The path that I liked to follow is that of the old camp both as guard and as mage. The reason is that with this path you will see that almost all the armour becomes available to you. But you should chose the camp you feel is right for you. (I'm someone who tries to do every little quest in every camp before I have to chose.)

Gorath

July 6th, 2008, 16:47

I would also say stay flexible for as long as possible. At some point in the game you have to commit - and then stay focused on that path.
Invest the first couple of skill points in things useful for combat. Even a mage needs to servive until he finds good spells.

Download JemyM´s FAQ as a replacement for the manual. Choose the alternative controls if you are right-handed. That´s a permutation of a normal shooter setup (ASDW + [CTRL or LMB]). Learning the controls takes ca. 3*5 minutes if you can find a clear explanation. Unfortunately most reviewers didn´t even try to understand them. So don´t worry about the controls. They´re fast and effective when you´ve understood them. Especially the combat becomes second nature later on, when your character learned how to correctly use a sword.
Some people think a gamepad is the best input device.
Gothic is traditionally pretty hard in the first few hours, so don´t worry if you get killed often. It´s non-linear, you can - and should - run away if you think you cannot win. One or two levels later things might look different. A little bit more Str, a better armour, a new sword and suddenly you are much more effective.

Pladio

July 6th, 2008, 17:54

1. Save, Save often !!!
2. Play for a few hours, just to get a feel for the game, controls, use of scrolls, herbs, weapons, start over if you like or continue.
3. JemyM's FAQ is really good... There's a few things missing there, I think, but 99% of the game is there.
4. The first chapter is massive, so even if you made a choice (choosing to be a shadow, novice, ...), save before you go to the guy, so you don't have to go through all of chapter one again and again for replays. (For me the First chapter constitutes for about half of the game, so...)
5. Also, like they said above. Gothic isn't a game where you go from one place to the other and it gradually gets more difficult. You can find people, animals and monsters which can kill you in a heartbeat so again, be sure to save often. Just remember the places you can go to and don't approach the big monsters wo can rip you to shreds before you're ready for them ...

That's my two cents for now...

Rills

July 7th, 2008, 05:47

So if I am understandiing correctly what all of you told me then I need to carefully explore, run tasks/fulfill quests, and gain points (without getting killed too often in the process) before committing. Right?

And then once I commit to stay on the path. If I stray are there warnings?

Will the story line dictate when it is demanded of me to commit?

Thanks again to all of you who answered. It is clearer now.

JDR13

July 7th, 2008, 07:08

Getting ready to play Gothic for the first time?

I truly envy you right now......

Jaz

July 7th, 2008, 07:27

Will the story line dictate when it is demanded of me to commit?Yes, it will, but you will have seen quite a lot of the game by then.

Gorath

July 7th, 2008, 08:33

So if I am understandiing correctly what all of you told me then I need to carefully explore, run tasks/fulfill quests, and gain points (without getting killed too often in the process) before committing. Right?
Getting killed is only a problem if you don´t have a collection of save games. ;)
You can play more straight forward, but it´s easier if you move on slower, slay a few minor creatures here and there to gain a level and also do quests for the other camps.
Sometimes you have to make quest related decisions during a dialog. Don´t expect to get a second chance to accept an offer. Choices have consequences.

And then once I commit to stay on the path. If I stray are there warnings?
Will the story line dictate when it is demanded of me to commit?Don´t worry about that.

Maylander

July 7th, 2008, 10:16

Oh man, the first time exploring the world of Gothic! One of my best game experiences! Felt so great to notice all the little details around the Old Camp for the first time, people talking, making food, playing music, washing their face in the morning, etc.

Anyhow, I wouldn't worry too much about "class" in Gothic. You'll get plenty of skillpoints to make a powerful character, unless you completely waste them all on nothing.

gaboru93

July 15th, 2008, 15:47

Wow! It's pretty nice and surprising in a way to see that even now people start to play Gotic! I will never forget this game as it has marked my gaming experience! As for advice... well I can tell you this, never rush things! Take them slow and you will reap the benefits later on! Pay attention to everything! Get anything you see on the ground as there is no weight limit. The other things have already been said!

I wish you luck! Have fun!

P.S. Tell us when you finish the game and your impressions on it

titus

July 15th, 2008, 17:24

I have to agree with JDR13:
I envy you being able to play Gothic for the first time. I can still remember the intro movie, made me laugh and want to beat up the guy asap :)

Rills

July 16th, 2008, 18:25

Okay, I installed the game and I am presently taking my time going around the outer ring of the Old Camp engaging various members. The only bug that kicked me back to my desktop so far was when I entered through the gate and I got too close to the guard near the winch. I remember in JemyM's FAQ stating these winchs are known to be buggy. So I reloaded and got as far from that guard as possible. So far so good.

By the way, my game version is 1.08j So does anyone know if this is tha latest of G1 versions?

I have to admit: I don't like the game controls one bit. I am sure I will eventually get used to them but I find they significantly take away from the game play.

A question:
I found one lock pick and even early in the game I have been able to get into a few huts with no one looking. I attempt to equip the lock pick in order to open a few chests but no can do. What am I doing wrong? Do I need Fingers to teach me first?

Thanks!

Alrik Fassbauer

July 16th, 2008, 18:50

There are chests where you can use a lock pick. Be sure to make a savegame before the process !

You'll learn when you've reached an thus unlockable chest, I guess.

And try to stay out of creatures early in the game.

For starters, I think it's a good idea to forge your own sword.

But you don't need to, because you can find old, rusty swords very, very early on the first path. You just need to look around.

Save often !

Pladio

July 16th, 2008, 19:58

The controls are very weird at first. I completely agree, but once you get used to them you won't want to change :)

titus

July 16th, 2008, 22:02

Rills

July 17th, 2008, 00:07

you have to use the left and right with the lockpick and you will hear a sound if you are doing it wright. after a couple of lefts and rights the lock will be picked. Be sure to save before you try because the lockpick may break

Okay, thanks for this. I see my mistake. I was doing the left mouse control + the Up key trying to "use" the lockpick. There is absolutely nothing in the Readme that tells one how to do this correctly. I will still need to equip said lockpick, correct?

Thanks again.

By the way, Alrik, I did find that sword and it wasn't until I got into camp that I discovered it causes considerable more damage than a pic ax.

And, yes, I certainly am saving often. :)

Gorath

July 17th, 2008, 02:20

I will still need to equip said lockpick, correct?
No, it should be enough to have at least one lockpick in the inventory. Then simply use the crate. PC_Hero should kneel in front of it and wait for left-right input.
The lockpicking skill enhances the chance that a lockpick will survive a wrong move. So strictly speaking it´s not necessary to invest skill points here.
The gothic.ini includes an option to scramble the locks after each reload, if you prefer it that way.

By the way, Alrik, I did find that sword and it wasn't until I got into camp that I discovered it causes considerable more damage than a pic ax.
Close to the starting position was a teleport rune to be found, I think. You could also climb up a hill an collect some loot.

And, yes, I certainly am saving often. :)
Quicksave can be activated in the gothic.ini, AFAIR. Use at your own risk and avoid doing it during interaction of any kind. Don´t forget to make a regular save as backup every 30 minutes or so.

By the way, my game version is 1.08j So does anyone know if this is tha latest of G1 versions?
1.08k should be the latest. I uploaded it to our server some time ago, together with the fps-patch to unlock the frame rate. An unofficial texture pack can also be found somewhere. The search function should reveal how to install this stuff.

I have to admit: I don't like the game controls one bit. I am sure I will eventually get used to them but I find they significantly take away from the game play.
This impression will change. Just remember that "Action key + forward" does almost everything. The combat will get more attractive when your character knows more sophisticated tactics.

A little hint: You can find two people in the ring who offer to escort you to the other camps. Acccept their offer immediately. They´ll wait until you are ready. Follow them and stay 10m behind. They´ll clean the roads for you and you´ll get the xp.

Bartacus

July 17th, 2008, 13:52

Close to the starting position was a teleport rune to be found, I think. You could also climb up a hill an collect some loot.

That was in Gothic2 when you re-entered the colony. But you can still collect the loot over there. I believe it was a young molerat waiting for you there. When you go back over the bridge and jump up you can kill some more of those creatures. (good for xp)

Alrik Fassbauer

July 17th, 2008, 15:43

The controls are very weird at first. I completely agree, but once you get used to them you won't want to change :)

To me, not at all.

Maybe that's because I was used to playing Commander Keen a lot. ;)
And similar games. ;)

The only criticism I really had was that the trading screen did not *automatically* equal both sides, so to say.

Pladio

July 17th, 2008, 15:56

I was a strategy player before Gothic, the only other RPG I had played was DII, so using the keyboard felt awkward except for shortcuts...

Rills

July 17th, 2008, 19:40

Gah! I no longer have my one and only lock pick. I went to reload after I broke said lockpick in an attempt to open a chest and I accidently saved instead. Duh! Any ideas on where I can get another set in the Old Camp?

titus

July 17th, 2008, 20:18

mm try fingers the one that teaches you lockpick :)

Bartacus

July 17th, 2008, 22:42

Euhm try to go to character desription and type 'marvin', then go out of character description again. When you press F2 now, a console will appear. Insert It_Lockpick (or something that looks like it - don't have the cheat codes anymore)

Alrik Fassbauer

July 17th, 2008, 23:17

I think in the Old Camp someone sells lockpicks.

For a price, of course.

Look at the south (?) entrance, where the fallen tower lies.

Rills

July 17th, 2008, 23:56

I think in the Old Camp someone sells lockpicks.

For a price, of course.

Look at the south (?) entrance, where the fallen tower lies.

Yes, I found two after taking more time with the merchants. By the way, is there any way to delete older saves?

monster0

July 18th, 2008, 00:52

Yes, I found two after taking more time with the merchants. By the way, is there any way to delete older saves?
Yes, but not ingame. You'll have to go into your Gothic game folder to delete them.;)

Pladio

July 18th, 2008, 01:21

You can also just save on top of them ...

titus

July 18th, 2008, 10:31

bartacus don't advice him to use marvin in his first run through. That is something for a second or further game :)
jep just save over them or delete them out game.
Damn although I knew the game out of my thumb almost I still feel like playing it again now :p

Maylander

July 18th, 2008, 11:14

There are many that sell lock picks, but not too many in the Old Camp. The best places are:
- Various places in the New Camp
- A guy in the mine, he sells 10 or 20 of them, but you need to pay some miner in a corner (a fellow that sells information) first.

titus

July 18th, 2008, 11:42

doesn't Fingers sell lockpicks too? it is a long time ago so my mind isn't sure about that anymore.

You can also do like most did: save before you try, does the pick break: reload
cheesy way but most of us has probably done it a lot of times

Maylander

July 18th, 2008, 14:16

As far as I know, Fingers is not a vendor. He can train you in all thieving skills/ranks.

And yes, I've used the whole reload thing myself. :)

Bartacus

July 18th, 2008, 15:40

@Maylander: I think titus doesn't mean fingers but fisk

Rills

July 18th, 2008, 23:50

Okay, since I die early on trying to go to the old mine I decided to do the Thorus quest, warned Mordrag, and headed out to the New Camp. I am 250 experience points away from third level. I got caught by Lefty and now I must serve water to the rice field workers. I immediately did so and received 100 exp. Then I went into the New Camp. looked around, etc.

I got up the next day and figured I might as well give water again. The problem was that as soon as Lefty saw me he accused me slacking off, attacked me, and took a sizable amount of ore.

So I reloaded, avoided Lefty, gave out the water and then went to him. This time he was okay and then told me to go ahead and do my job?! But I just did...

So, I reloaded a third time and tried meeting him first -- same outcome.

Any clues? I even had to supply said water from my own stash. The first time I was handed 12 bottles of water. I figured Lefty would hand it out again -- wrong!

Pladio

July 19th, 2008, 00:43

I don't really remember how the quest is supposed to go, but you can enter or leave the new camp by jumping or down the ramp to the edge so he doesn't see you.

Going up the rice field stay on the right and jump up, so he doesn't see you. Going down, just jump down the rice field instead of following the road towards Lefty.

Wulf

July 19th, 2008, 01:16

O.k Rills,

After accepting the Water carrier for Lefty quest, dish out two lots of water (2 @ 12) = 24 bottles, this is so each of the diggers gets a free drink and is an act of humanity, then speak with Horatio and accept the quest and leave the third option 'open' - then speak with Jeremiah at the back of the bar on the lake, return to Horatio and offfer the third option (smash the Rice lords face in) - this will give you 5+ strength points at the same time being told "use you strength fort a just cause *and nothing else* (clue)
So purposely not using any weapon, confront Lefty (only in daytime) and he will attack.
withdraw backwards to a safe non-detect distance from the Rice-Lord and by using *fists only* (control+forward) slap Lefty down. When he gets up talk with him, the dialogue has three choices and consequences.

1- take some water to the peasants
2. just wanted to smash your face in.
3. How are you my friend.

Options 1 and 3 will complete the Lefty quest without alienating the rogues or mercenaries, if done correctly your journal entry should say something like "some people only learn through pain"

gaboru93

July 19th, 2008, 12:29

wow wulf... I never had the idea to beat him with my fists... wow... but it was so obvious! anyway Rills you can avoid him as I did (almost whole game lol)! just go on the right near the wall of stone and climb the little ramp! Do all quests here in New Camp but don't become part of New camp! then go to the sect merchant in new camp (he is smoking weed!) and talk to him... he will direct you to someone else who will take you to the Sect camp! Do all quests there :D ! then... you can choose your favorite camp!

good luck hehe

titus

July 19th, 2008, 13:28

no I meant fingers but with your remark about fisk and that fingers doesn't sell I knew the guy of the old camp had some too.

Rills

July 19th, 2008, 19:36

Just a question of curiosity for all of you who have played G1: What level was you character when you chose a camp?

Pladio

July 19th, 2008, 20:22

I think you can join as soon as level 6, but if I remember correctly it's better to be about level 10 or so ...
The first time I played, I was the lowest level possible, but if you can manage to be a bit higher and thus a bit stronger it's better.
If you can save some LPs it might help too.

Maylander

July 19th, 2008, 21:11

Level 5 is minimum, but I'm usually around 7. The whole levelling process speeds up after you join a camp though, since you get better armor allowing you kill things a bit easier.

Wulf

July 19th, 2008, 23:46

Yep, level 5 to change to a shadow and 10 for a guard, i often went to level 20 in chapter 1.

Rills

July 20th, 2008, 00:23

Yep, level 5 to change to a shadow and 10 for a guard, i often went to level 20 in chapter 1.

Was this attained by quests + killing everything in sight outside the camps?

Also, how often would you distribute the skill points? As you got them or did you hoard them until after you made your decision?

Thanks.

Pladio

July 20th, 2008, 03:15

Wulf is probably the one with the most expertise with Gothic, he's finished it at least 30 times I think.
I think he knows the whole game by heart.

Wulf

July 20th, 2008, 11:50

Thanks Pladio, 68 times to be exact.

Your questions Rills, suggest that you are putting good thought into your game-play.

Yes, to level 20 was free roaming and killing, certainly not my true style really, just experimenting yet keeping within the story line limits, its the chapter changes that hold the game triggers and keep firm control of the story line. You could go further beyond L20 by sneaking into the orc underground temple and on a killing spree, but this is jumping ahead of the natural story line.

Distribution of points is a subjective thing, what may suit one might not suit another player. For instance, in one argument - if after a level-up you run straight back to a trainer and increase dex' +5 and str' +5, immediately from that point you will get to the next level up sooner because the multiplier effect comes in. Conversely, it is easy to get through most of the game at say 30 str' and 30 dex' - you can kill an orc easily at this level. This means skill points can indeed be stored and used later in a more conservative way - but what for? you could only assess your own gameplay for the reason of a repeat or further game play to try another method of point distribution.

So on first play through as the story unfolds you may well realise that you can change a tactical course - for example:- decide to be a mage from a point about 25str'/25dex' (a very good swap-over point) to enable max' as a mage later in the game as you cannot achieve max' both as a fighter and a mage as there arn't enought points available, this is intentional by concept design.

But it is the story line in G1 with its hidden triggers that takes precidence irrespective of how you level up, it is a "progressive" thing to go with the flow of the game - you will "sense" this need as you read the various books and tomes you find along the way - they hold the very important key to the true path through gothic.

Maylander

July 20th, 2008, 20:02

We are quite a few here that have passed 30 times. :)

As for a first timer, just go with the flow. Level 5 to join a camp, level 10 to get this and that (I won't spoil anything), is more than fine. There's no need to focus on such things. The game won't stop you from getting butchered in high level zones, but other than that you'll be kept from making any serious bloopers.

Edit:
It's certainly possible to be a full fighter and a full mage, with 100 mana, 100 strength, one handed expertise and all circles. It's not possible to become a ranged fighter, a melee fighter and a mage, but two out of three is possible (any of the two).

Rills

July 20th, 2008, 22:19

Thanks for all the replies. They really are appreciated. The over-arching issue for me when doing an RPG of this magnitude and caliber is the lack of experience/knowledge of the system. For instance, when Baldur's Gate came out many people had a ton of questions about game play, style, etc. But for me it wasn't a problem at all because I had played D&D for a number of years and picking up the parameters of play was easy.

Gothic 1 is all new to me so again thanks especially for your patience in answering my questions. I really am enjoying the game and the fact that it has a bonified plot (something that seems to be missing in a number of RPGs). I will most likely start a new game when I finish this current one and with the gained experience I am sure I'll be playing smarter.

Right now I am 5th level with 30 strength (+5 from Horatio) and 25 dexterity (+5 from ring found). Another 10 skill points for ihanded sword training and the rest for hunting skills. I would eventually like to make my character a fighter/mage, but right now my bow skills are so poor -- I can't hit anything! -- I am now sure if I should train at least to expertise 1.

I also believe one of the reasons I am dying frequently is 1) I still am not really mastering the combay controls and 2) my armor is too weak.

Thoughts?

Pladio

July 20th, 2008, 23:32

Armor is key to surviving in Gothic. Better armor will keep you alive from lots of animals. Mastering the combat controls will help, but with the better skills and armor you get almost invincible.

As I said before, I am not one who finished the game a lot, but from what I have gathered, joining a faction will help you get a better armor which in turn will let you level up earlier too. I'd suggest finishing up all the quests you can before joining a camp. A lot of them don't require a lot of fighting. It should give you one or two more levels of LPs to use.

Another possibility is of just trying to play like this and join a faction now. Maybe save your game now on a slot which you won't delete... This way you can try with joining a faction for a few hours. If you like it then you continue otherwise just go back to that special save and try gaining a few more levels.

Maylander

July 21st, 2008, 01:05

Spot on. You get good armors through factions.

Wulf

July 21st, 2008, 11:27

I completed the game several times with NO armour (both with and without diggers trousers) but that was experimenting to see if it could be done. Also i once completed the game with no weapons, just fists and some magic. There is no "one way" in playing gothic - the choice is yours alone.

This substantially proves that the story line does not rely on using weapons or armour as a predetermined requirement to the game's completion. The main requirement in G1 is appeasing the gods as explained in the books and is sadly the most overlooked concept by most players.

Pladio

July 21st, 2008, 15:37

I don't think a first time Gothic player should try playing without armor ...

titus

July 21st, 2008, 16:31

no defenitely not. Gothic as a first timer is way too hard, you should just go with the natural flow of the game the first time.

You say you die a lot? maybe you venture too far in the land, the line between meeting easy to kill creatures and creatures that easily kill you is sometimes very small.
Like they said beofre: try to do as much quest as you can, enough of them require just a bit or no combat.

Rills

July 21st, 2008, 17:33

Well I have reached level 8 and I believe I have completed all quests in the camps except for 2:

1. I have avoided Lefty since he tried to take me out. That "mission" is still listed as needing to be completed.

2. I have yet to give Diego the list. Once I do am I then required to declare a camp? Or even after I do give him the list can I continue to hunt the area for experience?

* I have improved my bow skills and upped my dexterity and I have been able to gain experience by the old tried and true nail 'em with arrows and run away. Then run back and attack; repeat until dead. :biggrin:

* I have also read that it is possible to join the New Camp even after having joined the Old Camp. True? I thought once you gave Diego the list the New Camp was off limits membership wise.

Bartacus

July 21st, 2008, 20:53

1. I have avoided Lefty since he tried to take me out. That "mission" is still listed as needing to be completed.

2. I have yet to give Diego the list. Once I do am I then required to declare a camp? Or even after I do give him the list can I continue to hunt the area for experience?

* I have improved my bow skills and upped my dexterity and I have been able to gain experience by the old tried and true nail 'em with arrows and run away. Then run back and attack; repeat until dead. :biggrin:

* I have also read that it is possible to join the New Camp even after having joined the Old Camp. True? I thought once you gave Diego the list the New Camp was off limits membership wise.

1. Good thing avoiding lefty till you strong enough to wack him

2. You are not yet pinned to the old camp when you give Diego the list. I always played it by going with the list to the new camp, but not accepting their offer to join them and then go to Diego and do the same. That doesn't have any effects on the game what so ever.

3. That's the tactic most of us use in the world of gothic, so it's a good thing to use it

4. If you do it like I did in point 2, you can still join the new camp.
Later on in the game it can happen that you will join the camp

titus

July 21st, 2008, 20:54

1. do this missions too before you decide: more xp

2: I thought you could do this even without committing to thje old camp

It is but if I tell you how I would spoil a part of the story so I won't

Gorath

July 21st, 2008, 21:00

2. I have yet to give Diego the list. Once I do am I then required to declare a camp? Or even after I do give him the list can I continue to hunt the area for experience?
IMHO you´re asking for way too many spoilers. Why don´t you just make a decision and live with the consequences? I would recommend you think carefully about this quest though. You have more than one option and it has moral implications.
Enjoy the ride and be happy you don´t know what´s behind the next corner.

* I have improved my bow skills and upped my dexterity and I have been able to gain experience by the old tried and true nail 'em with arrows and run away. Then run back and attack; repeat until dead. :biggrin:
Interesting. Most people stick to the good old tank character on their first run. Sounds like you´ll get into trouble if somebody gets close to you. ;) Not a mistake but certainly not the easiest path through the game. I´m not sure how useful your bow is if you meet a group of Orcs in a building. :gorath:

* I have also read that it is possible to join the New Camp even after having joined the Old Camp. True? I thought once you gave Diego the list the New Camp was off limits membership wise.You can only join one of the camps. Joining earns you your first status symbol, a better armour, and access to the camp´s internal resources. Your adventures in the other camps aren´t over though.

Gorath

July 21st, 2008, 21:04

Guys, I think you´ve told him way too much. He can read the walkthrough in JemyM´s FAQ if he really wants the full dosis of spoilers.

Rills

July 21st, 2008, 21:10

2. You are not yet pinned to the old camp when you give Diego the list. I always played it by going with the list to the new camp, but not accepting their offer to join them and then go to Diego and do the same. That doesn't have any effects on the game what so ever.

I have been to the New Camp with the list on me but haven't told Lares nor Diego since obtaining said list. I guess - no, I know - I'm missing something in the translation of what you are saying. :blush:

If I give the list to Diego I cannot - at least at this time - join the New Camp. If I give the list to Lares I definitely can't join the Old Camp. Am I understanding this correctly? Can I tell Diego I have obtained the list and yet not give it to him? Thus, I have the vote of confidence and can move to shadow? The same with Lares, i.e. tell him you have the list but not turn it over and yet move up to rogue?

Don't I have to give the list to Diego or Lares in order to become either a shadow or a rougue?

Sorry for all the questions... :-/

Gorath

July 21st, 2008, 21:17

You can also tackle the quest from the moral point of view. Which are the involved people and how are they treating you?
Are from the story side. How important is the quest for the involved parties?

There is no right or wrong path. The journey is the reward.

Bartacus

July 21st, 2008, 21:19

If I give the list to Lares I definitely can't join the Old Camp. Am I understanding this correctly?

This is incorrect -> Lares will ask you to do something

Rills

July 21st, 2008, 22:12

I just want you guys to know why I am asking so much about this particular juncture in the game. Early on as I was trying to get enough votes in the Old Camp I went to Fingers and he mentioned Calvoran and his ability to teach sneak. I then asked him where he could be found. He told me and so I determined to look him up.

When I eventually followed Mordrag to the New Camp I noticed the cabin Fingers mentioned and so I detoured there looking for him. He wasn't anywhere to be found.

So, I reloaded, talked to Fingers, etc. Then followed Mordrag. No Calvoran.

I loaded earlier saves thinking one of my files must be corrupt, but the results have been the same. This character has vanished from my game. When I am going between the New and Old camps I periodically cheack in but he is not there. This is the reason I asked about Lefty if it was a bug or not; perhaps I disrupted something. I do know that if certain characters die the game cannot be completed.

Perhaps I am being paranoid but I put a lot of hours into this game and I don't want to disrupt to the point of not being able to finish. I cannot for the life of me figure out why Calvoran has utterly vanished. Oh well, I assume he isn't a major character anyway.

Gorath

July 21st, 2008, 22:21

Who? Cavalorn? He has a hut. Go out of the main gate, turn left, run 100m and follow the main path down right.
You can find the exact location on my maps on GothicDot.

Rills

July 21st, 2008, 22:53

Who? Cavalorn? He has a hut. Go out of the main gate, turn left, run 100m and follow the main path down right.
You can find the exact location on my maps on GothicDot.

Sorry, I mispelled his name. I have found his cabin. But he is nowhere to be found. As I mentioned earlier, I even loaded saves from previous days and still nothing. I even checked last night and he isn't there. And yes I made sure I talked to Fingers first where he could be found.

Maylander

July 22nd, 2008, 10:09

Cavalorn really doesn't mean a whole lot, but it's still strange that he's just gone. Don't think I've ever seen that.

gaboru93

July 22nd, 2008, 12:08

Alrik Fassbauer

July 22nd, 2008, 12:41

Calavorn (Cavalorn ? I don't even remember his name correctly ... Alas ! my bad memory for names !!! ) gone ? That's indeed strange.

Wasn't he the hunter ? In his area are several bigger beasts, so he could've been killed by them ...

Bartacus

July 22nd, 2008, 13:21

did you look behind his hut? did you try going there without Mordrag? load up a save from almost the start of the game and go to his hut and see if he is there... if he is... then that means that someway he was killed... I don't have any other ideas... try those and tell us what you found

Sometimes he's in front of his hut, but also sometimes in the back. I don't know if he came to the cave behind his hut. I think there were molerats over there.

Alrik Fassbauer

July 22nd, 2008, 13:30

I think there were molerats over there.

Yes, there are.

Thanks for reminding me ! :)

gaboru93

July 22nd, 2008, 21:34

I always saw him in front but who knows.. the world of gothic is a mistery :P. try what I said...

Rills

July 22nd, 2008, 23:00

I have checked both front, back and around. And regarless of the save I load he is gone. Oh well, nothing major I would say and since he wasn't around after all the hours and hours of gameplay I went ahead and lockpicked his chest and I found his key. Nice find.

gaboru93

July 23rd, 2008, 13:23

All this talk about Gothic makes me want to replay it... I think I'll start it just now... at least until I get bored

GothicGothicness

July 23rd, 2008, 14:37

Rills, you can finish the game without him. People die in Gothic since it is a realistic roleplaying game compared to most others.

On my first play through a guy vital for the main quest fell of a ladder and died. Luckily I had an old save. But do not worry if someone important would die and you don't have any old save. You can bring them back to life by using something called Marvin mode. Do not worry at all! Just play and enjoy! and accept that people could die!

Bartacus

July 23rd, 2008, 16:19

Some are immortal, but most of them lose that in the last chapter.

Wulf

July 23rd, 2008, 21:28

In windows add&remove programs select gothic and of the three choices select "repair" this will check every file and correct to default where required, could take a couple of minutes in serious cases or mostly just a second. Saves will not be affected.If this does't put Cavalorn back into the game there is a possible file deletion or corruption.
Alternatively use the marvin console and the following command near to his hut to insert him if you wish. After he walks to his spawn point do a B42B in the console, save and exit G1, then restart this will continue your game as normal. As only one instance of Cavalorn will function, should you find the another Cavalorn somewhere later, just kill him, no harm will be done.

insert STT_336_CAVALORN
.................................................. .................................................. .....................................
For a first timer to G1 Cavalorn should not be outrightly ignored, he is the only npc to teach the sneak skill which is pre-requisite to another skill. It is classed along with hunting skills and stays optionally open throughout the game. Iv'e tested the the bounding box distances in the past and it doesn't make the slightest difference whatsoever to the detection distance when sneaking up on prey to be killed . Some players go as far as to say it is a complete waste of time, yet there is a requirement that can be done only with the skill. Cavalorn says use it for sneaking up on someone from behind in their huts but you must *never get caught* (not even once) or a trigger is dropped permanently ever after. There are some little known quest item/s that can only be got by pickpocketing and sneaking and of course no violence which if enacted would negate the allegience to the guilds triggers (both with sect camp and new camp) a factor which is ignored by even some of the most devoted and ardent G1 players.

Let us know how it goes
Good luck Rills. ;)

Alrik Fassbauer

July 24th, 2008, 13:09

One infamous game walkthrough I encountered in the official JoWood forums regarding Gothic 1 favoured to kill EVERYTHING and EVERYONE - except important quest-givers. As a means to maximize the amount of experience points.

Later, after reading this "walkthrough", I wrote a bitter parody of it.

I couldn't understand or see any sens in killing everything alive in a game except quest-givers to maximize one's power.

Of course, one *can* do it, but this is a way I greatly despise, because it's just hack & slay to me, then.
And that in a rather role-play oriented environment like Gothic !

Bartacus

July 24th, 2008, 13:23

It's a role, Alrik. It is called the way of the psychotic killer. Role playing means for me that you can have choices to play the game -> gothic gives you this.

Alrik Fassbauer

July 25th, 2008, 12:06

There are more than enough games out there that are based on the role of a killer, a destroyer, an annihilator. I don't need just another game with this theme. I'm overfed with it.

gaboru93

July 25th, 2008, 16:54

Alrik Fassbauer

July 25th, 2008, 19:47

Uh, if I can find it ...

Maylander

July 27th, 2008, 03:14

I tend to wipe out the Old Camp, but only when "the time is right". The little experience you get from clearing the Swamp Camp and New Camp is hardly worth it, and will most likely end up with having to outrun Cor Angar or Saturas (immortal unless you cheat to make them mortal, even at the end). I suspect you'll get an extra level or so for doing it, but the 10 skill points is certainly not needed.

Zaleukos

July 28th, 2008, 14:35

When building a character in Gothic my main advice is to save the stat boosting potions for your chosen primary stats until you already have 100 in the relevant stat. You can only train str, mana, and dex to 100. I accidentally crippled a mage build by using too many permanent mana potions too early:(

Otherwise it is quite hard to mess up in the game with the last patches. I've only had the game break on me in the dungeon that you explore together with a templar (which is full of event and dialog triggered mini-cutscenes), but any seasoned RPG player would have a save from just before entering that dungeon. Just avoid unprovoked killing and there wont be any problems.

Zakhary

September 26th, 2008, 11:27

I just decided to give the gothic series one final try.
Never liked them, never really got into them, tried the first one once,
tried the second one twice. Hated them ever since :D

I'm away from home this weekend so I don't have acces to my main gaming pc -
so I can't play The Witcher.. all I've got is my laptop here which runs gothic 1/2 very nicely so I decided to give it one last shot to convince me :D Just like many people on these forums have given varous games "one more chances" with positive outcomes, I decided now it's my turn.. And the game that everyone seems to love but I never got... Well.. there's KOTOR - but I won't touch anything with a name that begins with "STAR" (-wars, -trek, -gate etc..) so I decided I'm gonna go with the gothics.

Now. I'll start with the first game in the series.. I'll throw in the latest patch (no mods!! no mods!!) and do some reading - apparently jemym's guide is the way to go.

Wish me luck, perhaps in a couple of days there's one less Gothic hater on these forums :D ?

(edit: yay! my first post on the gothic sub-forums! I'm one of the cool kids now!)

Bartacus

September 26th, 2008, 13:10

Zakhary, I got sucked into Gothic due to the demo. If I haven't played that one, I would never got an interest in RPG's -> I would never got into these fora. That's how important Gothic is to me.

Maylander

September 26th, 2008, 13:42

Hehe, good luck Zakhary! A small advice from me: Be patient enough to learn how the combat system really works, and get an upgrade in 1H fighting skill. Untill you get to that point in the game, fighting is very hard.

Beyond that, I won't say a thing (unless you have specific questions, of course), because I don't want to ruin the experience of exploring the world of Gothic. :)

Rills

September 26th, 2008, 17:17

Running is a great way to stay alive in Gothic 1; if you run away long enough creatures eventually give up -- except the snappers!). If you can master the hit and run you'll gain experience (eventually) especially early on. That's why I love bows/crossbows because you can damage, run away, come back and inflict more damage. Hitting an enemy/monster from a high point with a bow works well.

As Maylander rightly says, get 1H skill as well.

Gorath

September 26th, 2008, 18:46

What were the problems you had on your last couple of Gothic tries? Maybe we can help you avoid them this time.

If the game sucks you in this time you should install all the technical mods to make it run smoother and look better. Probably a waste of time until you are sure though.

Reg. the controls:
Set them to the alternative defaults if you are right-handed. Then it´s ASDW + mouse. ONe forum member is making a strong case for moving everything one key to the right, which is also interesting.
The control thing nobody ever complained about is the undocumented one: a gamepad. ;)
The first thing to try if you want to interact with anything: (CTRL or LMB) + forward. If this doens´t work look into JemyM's FAQ.

Zakhary

September 26th, 2008, 19:13

Yeah the controls wera big issue for me last time.
What I did when I began the game was this:
Use the "alternative" control scheme, increase the mouse speed to the max,
swap the keys "left shift" and "left control" against eachother - this also made things a lot easier.

The controls still suck, but I'll manage.

The combat sucks, bad. But I knew to expect this so I'm patient.

It would seem, however, that the first Gothic is much better than the second one, for some reason. I think I'll get much farther than the last time at least, might even finish it someday.

Gorath

September 26th, 2008, 23:10

The combat sucks, bad. But I knew to expect this so I'm patient.
It will get better when your character has learned how to use weapons. At the beginning he is just some noob who hold his sword like a stick.
Combat efficiency scales quite linearly. Every little piece which strenthens offense or defense helps, and several combined help a lot.
Don´t fight more than one opponent in the beginning. Run away if you think you`ll lose.

It would seem, however, that the first Gothic is much better than the second one, for some reason. I think I'll get much farther than the last time at least, might even finish it someday.
NPCs, setting and story are deeper in the first Gothic.

You can play it like an adventure. Concentrate on quests and politics. Slower play makes the combat easier.

gaboru93

September 27th, 2008, 10:29

Zakhary, I got sucked into Gothic due to the demo. If I haven't played that one, I would never got an interest in RPG's -> I would never got into these fora. That's how important Gothic is to me.

Same for me :) Thanks to gothic I went at rpgdot and then here!

Good luck zakhary. It is a really good game.

Zakhary

September 27th, 2008, 12:31

Questions questions questions...

a) Can I kill the annoying guy who follows me around in the old camp and keeps telling how he "likes" animals and getting cozy with men.

b) Can I have a viable character that uses a crossbow / 1h weapons and has little to no magical or 2h weapon skills? Kind of a slasher/assassin with some thieving skill thrown in there too?

c) Which of the factions is most "fun" and/or would fit the character described above?

titus

September 27th, 2008, 14:15

a) if you lure him outside the camp where no one can see you, you can kill him without a problem. Most of us did that here ;)

b) points enough too do that.

c) mmm a little thief/assassin? I think the new camp would fit you the best, a real merceneray attitude there.
Was my favorite cam pof all three of them

Zakhary

September 27th, 2008, 16:28

I killed the annoying mud guy. Killed him dead!

I also killed three guys near the north gate to the old camp.
Will this affect or harm my gameplay progress in someway?
The guards seemed not to care.

I'm still untrained in all weapon skills, I just chose to train me some dexterity so I could use the crossbow I found from a cave. The combat just got a lot more fun. Crossbow!! What will happen when I train my crossbow skill? I can kill more than three guys in one fight :D ?

When you beat someone down with a melee weapon you have to finish him off but when you down someone with a crossbow he stays dead, correct?

b) points enough too do that.

Wha?

DeepO

September 27th, 2008, 16:47

c) Which of the factions is most "fun" and/or would fit the character described above?

I´d recommend joining the new camp too.
If you´ll give the Gothic+NoTR chance as well, joining the mercenaries in that game is probably the easiest route and also the one which ties to the first game the most via the old characters from the new camp.
What I´m trying to say is that joining new camp in Gothic and then joining the mercenaries in Gothic2+NoTR will tie both games more together and get you probably the most cohesive story experience.
Specializing in 1hand weapons and strength is the most hassle-free way to play Gothics and both those camps sumplement that way nicely.
You can always cast spells via spell scrolls.

titus

September 27th, 2008, 17:13

I would recommended to at least put some points in 1handed sword fighting.
Mmm don't know how much improvement it brings to put more points in crossbow, never really used it with G1.

I meant you get enough skillpoints during the game.

You are right about defeating someone with a melee kinda weapon will only knock him down and shooting someone with magic or bow/crossbow is lethal.

This is the game why I went to the old dot and moved with the most people of there to here :)

Gorath

September 27th, 2008, 18:31

I killed the annoying mud guy. Killed him dead!

Unnecessary. He usually runs away if you hit him once.

I'm still untrained in all weapon skills, I just chose to train me some dexterity so I could use the crossbow I found from a cave. The combat just got a lot more fun. Crossbow!! What will happen when I train my crossbow skill? I can kill more than three guys in one fight :D ?
Also train 1h. You cannot - and you should not - always use the crossbow.
It`s not certain you have enough space and time to aim when you fight Orcs in a dungeon.

When you beat someone down with a melee weapon you have to finish him off but when you down someone with a crossbow he stays dead, correct?Quite correct. The game checks if the other guy has "enemy status". If not he only gets knocked down. Kicking somebody´s ass is the accepted method for business negotiations and for settleing minor conflicts. ;)
Think twice before you kill somebody inside a camp. Too many witness. It's often okay to knock somebody out and rob him before he gets up again. You can even trap him at night when he is alone, rob him and then use an oblivion scroll.

A warning: Gothic has 3 buggy areas. They can be solved in 99% of the cases, even if problems occur. Nevertheless make sure you always have a couple of savegames to go back to. Use more than one slot.

Another tip:
Experiment. Don´t hesitate to use the stuff you find. Look everywhere; enjoy the spectacular 3D world.

Zakhary

September 28th, 2008, 08:57

Unnecessary. He usually runs away if you hit him once.

Yeah, many of the unnecessary things I'm gonna do along the way ;)

Also train 1h. You cannot - and you should not - always use the crossbow.
It`s not certain you have enough space and time to aim when you fight Orcs in a dungeon.

Yeah that was the intention like I mentioned a couple of posts above.

One more question, are there any possibilities to play a cruel, ruthless and unpleasant character in this game other than murdering random people?
I always like to do that in games, and the games that let you do that get more love from me :D

Next.. i'll propably start hunting animals with my crossbow for exp and ore and try to get the animal skinning skills from those rangers to gain even more ore.

Hmm... but I'm gonna need more bolts... A LOT more bolts... :D

Zakhary

September 28th, 2008, 10:05

Can I cook meat? Or prepare other kinds of foods? What are the frying pans and spoons and kettles used for? Can I set fire? What are the tumblers for?
How do I use them? (I'm still not cool with the controls)

I killed a bunch of those crocodile-like-reptiles with my crossbow and now I'm all out of bolts - and I can't find more near or in the old camp and that makes me a saaaaaad panda. I think I'll go check out the new camp or something cause I'm not sure I'm cool with the atmosphere in the old camp. Too many sad people wallowing in apathy :D

Neeeed... Mooore... Booolts....

lanael

September 28th, 2008, 11:37

Yep, you can cook raw meat by using the frying pans. The cooked meat gives more healing points than raw meat ( 15 instead of 10, IIRC )
I'm not sure, but I think the spoons and kettles are only used in quests ( maybe only one ?).

Gorath

September 28th, 2008, 12:54

When you "use" a fireplace, PC_Hero should automatically use a pan to fry meat.

You don´t have to kill everything in the first chapter.
Killing lesser animals with the crossbow is not really necessary because they can hardly hurt you when you've received a decent armour,
Save enough bolts for the tougher missions in chapters 2 and above.
The ore shortage will solve itself later on.

Do admission quests for all 3 camps. You need the xp.

Playing a 100% evil character is not possible.
I also liked the New Camp best. Surprising as it may seem, they are the most honest people ...

Zakhary

September 28th, 2008, 13:03

Thanks for all the advice guys. I can't believe I'm saying this but I think that I've finally been sucked into Gothic! Yeap, you heard right - I'm actually starting to like this game. At this point I'm also going to need to ask for forgiveness from those people to whom I've bashed gothic in a forum thread (or two...) - I thought I had given Gothic a fair try but I see now that I had not. I also see now that the game certainly has it's charms :D Oh, and thanks for recommending the game so much! I propably wouldn't have given it a second chance without your thoughts and opinions.

Another tip:
Experiment. Don´t hesitate to use the stuff you find. Look everywhere; enjoy the spectacular 3D world.

That propably is - all things considered - the best advice you can give in a game like this. I'm gonna do just that. Experiment. Enjoy. Have fun. I'm not gonna power game. I'm not go the easy way or perform things in the optimal manner. Doing things the hardway (aka my way) is so much fun... most of the time :D

Allrighty then. Back to the game!

titus

September 28th, 2008, 17:28

Killing mud is unneccessary, but after he has been bugging you a lot, it is a real relief to kill him.
If you want to play the most evil char possible in the game, you should join the old camp. They have the most tirranic attitude of the three.
Well at least that is my opnion.

Darn you, you make me feel like starting gothic all over again :)

Rills

September 28th, 2008, 23:25

Zakhary, glad you are enjoying it. I used crossbow/bow to back up my fighting skills and you will find that you will need the bow skill sometime later in the game; not crossbow, bow, but I used both consistently.

As for magic, I am not a big user of magic but there are some great uses for support and there is a wonderful thing that I like to callThe Bloodfly Express. ;)