Flagship Studios - Shipwrecked

[Dhruin]

Flagship's community manager has told VoodooExtreme (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39866/Flagship-Studios-Closure-Confirmed-All-Staff-Fired-All-I-P-Lost) that the company is dead. Here's their summary:
In summary, Flagship's well is dry, all intellectual property has been lost, all staff fired, and the studio closed. It truly is the end of the line.
Head over to read the details.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=9589)

[Maylander]

I've already commented on this in some other thread, but I'll add my opinion here as well: This is a sad day for PC gaming. Not many still decide to go exclusively for the PC market, so whenever someone does - and fails - it's a loss for us PC gamers.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I think it's a bright day for Blizzard, cynically speaking.

[Roi Danton]

I just hope that they continue the development of Mythos, because I like the game a lot.

[GothicGothicness]

Well, sad but hardly unexpected. Hellgate london was not what people expected.

[Ragon der Magier]

So, hasn´t Flagship been the new founding of the former Blizzard North members, many of them who had helped give birth to roaringly successful Diablo back in the old days?

A major blow then, i´d say.
And a shame that such a bunch of supposedly talented, creative and bright people can fail so badly.
:(


Ragon, The Mage

[Reyla]

Yes, Ragon. Flagship was founded by at least three key members of Blizzard responsible for making Diablo.

Hellgate was and is mediocre. They couldn't recover from that. That's there only game, the only game they were banking on to fund them for future projects.

It is sad that Hellgate wasn't what we all expected and that its failure caused the company to fail. At least most of the guys and gals at Flagship will get jobs elsewhere and maybe Bill Roper still has something left to create.

Or is he a "Mcquaid"?

[txa1265]

I am saddened ... Hellgate wasn't up to expectations, but neither is it the crap that sells better on consoles. I had hoped that the Asian love for the game would allow them to continue, especially since they seemed to be making good progress.

[aries100]

It is always sad to see another PC developer go down :( :cry:

However, I do think that Flagship Studious (maybe) brought this on themselves. You needed an online account (for which you had pay) to get updates as I remember; the developers seemed much more keen on supporing the online things than the single-player things.

I played the demo and enjoyed it a lot :) I did not buy the game because it really wasn't as good as I expected. And the gameplay were really, really hard and difficult, not that I mind this. But whwn you aimed, you really weren't sure if you hit or not.

[Yeesh]

Rats. I'm partially to blame, because I didn't buy Hellgate. In my defense, reviews weren't so good, and I'm a cheapscate. But I always thought the game would improve and keep gettign patched, and one day I'd hop online for some 3D FP Dialbo-style goodness. And instead, I helped kill PC gaming.

I agree with potato head. If this game had been on the consoles, it could have sold 400,000 copies. Because why not? Those people don't even read reviews.

[Eisberg]

On the official Hellgate London forums, the community manage denied ever giving a statement. Right now, Flagship/Ping0 is neither confirming or denying anything. Though Flagship and Ping0 employees are still posting on the forums and still are moderating.

[magerette]

As I said in the other thread--very saddening to see this happen. I also never bought this game because of reviews, the bugged state and the fact they made it plain the focus was to be on multiplayer with single-player mostly an afterthought. I can't help thinking they just never connected with the same audience that supported and still supports Diablo II--despite a huge and no doubt expensive PR campaign and mega-advertising launch. I think Bil Roper was giving four or five interviews a day for a month back then.

Just goes to show marketing blitz alone can't sell something without a core product that appeals to/satisfies the targeted audience.

Edit: diabloiii.net also has an unofficial--no names confirmation (http://www.diii.net/n/672129/flagship-studios-closing).

[Lobotomist]

As a lover of RPG , i could have never imagine how much disrespect for the genre Flagship had , when they created Hellgate.

To take whole game world , good lore , and deem it irrelevant ?!

"We dont need quests , and story..nobody cares anyway" , "Lets make all quest dialogues into poorly written office jokes. And quests also... lets fire the writters aswell"


Well, it seems Story is relevant for RPG

Flagship , you got what you deserved....

[wynams]

I am not saddened by this at all ... Flagship was using new pay models and its good to see the PC gaming audience say "no thanks" to paying a monthly fee for an action RPG (HGL) and a free to play, pay $ for perks (Mythos) ... kudos Planet for saving us (for now) from more greed.

If companies would just release quality games, they wouldn't have to resort to these "innovative" models.

[Eisberg]

All I got to say is that those people who paid for the life time subscription got really hosed. The amount of new content that was made is not worth the money the spent for the sub. Not even the perks for being a subscriber was worth the monthly.

[Arma]

... and a free to play, pay $ for perks (Mythos) ...

Sorry for breaking it up to you, but ... the current verdict is that free to play, pay real dough for perks models is alive and kicking, the world has already said that it is OK, and that's that. What Flagship's demise shows (and game companies should have learned at least a decade ago) is that noone is willing to pay for a public beta, not to mention one with montly fees.

Even though I did not play Hellgate or Mythos (though I had some interest in the latter and was looking forward to it), I'm sad to see Flagship bite the dust. They took the liberty with some really bad, if not outright silly decisions on HGL, but I still admire them, mostly for their previous work, and had hopes they could come out of all the mess with a solid title, be it Mythos or something else.

[Yeesh]

Even though I did not play Hellgate or Mythos (though I had some interest in the latter and was looking forward to it), I'm sad to see Flagship bite the dust.

Double rats. I didn't realize they were behind Mythos. I was looking forward to that too. Why couldn't they have just gotten bought out or something? If it's worth risking X dollars to make a whole game, isn't it worth risking X/2 dollars to finish a half-completed one? Curses.

[Remus]

Now we found out who were lying first. Apparently whatever troubles in Flagship Studios existed for quite some, even in the very last few minutes FSS still denied the close-down rumor. They didn't want to admit it until every efforts to save the company failed.

Uninspired and buggy Diablo-clone, Wrong marketing strategy look like to have been the main reasons for the trouble.

[Ionstormsucks]

Well... While I'm a bit sad that another studio has to close I'm not overly suprised. It's what happens if you think players are stupid... Hellgate London was crap. It wasn't what players expected or wanted. The whole concept was crap and that was obvious... well for anyone except the developers, I guess.

[Remus]

The concept of action rpg was fine, but the content implementations and promotion failed. They hyped it as Diablo-clone, but apparently it was not easy to as good as Diablo, the result was far from it.

[Gorath]

Is there an official confirmation yet? That community manager denies he´s had any communication with VoodooExtreme on such topics.

[Remus]

Latest update still says the studio is dead.
Employees terminated (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39866/Flagship-Studios-Closure-Confirmed-All-Staff-Fired-All-I-P-Lost#comments)
Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5024558/flagship-sunk-whos-in-charge-of-hellgate)

[Gorath]

Okay, then it´s at least clear they´ve fired just about everybody. I expect a PR on Monday.

[SwordOfDoom]

Although I didn't buy Hellgate or play it, it's still sad to see a developer go under after their first game. It's especially disheartening to see a PC exclusive developer fail like this, considering how the industry has become console dominated. Maybe they shouldn't have made their first game a Diablo clone. I think the type of people that enjoy repetitive Diablo style RPGs are all into MMORPGs now.

[Fenris]

Hellgate was just a boring game - I really don't know why Developers create one mediocre Diablo/World of Warcraft-Clone after another, with not one even coming close to the originals - and then they wonder why their games tank (or blame it on the pirates^^).

[zakhal]

Diablo was kind of boring but I actually liked hellgate. Hopefully the game will live long enough to see the 2.0 patch. If I can play month or two thats enough anyways.
Update: A Goon by the name of GLC who claims to be a former Ping0 employee (thanks Hellgate Guru) has said the following on the SA Forums:

Former Ping0 employee checking in here. I feel bad for some of the talented guys on the staff who busted rear end to try and get a game out on a ridiculous schedule, but I think we all kind of saw this coming after the game came out and basically bombed. Flagship bit off way more than they could chew and made a lot of development and structural mistakes in how they went about things. They had a lot of big dreamers on staff, but not enough nitty-gritty people who knew how to get poo poo done. It sucks, but that's life I guess. I didn't always agree with the decisions of the leadership, but it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that three of them (probably Roper and the Schaeffers) dug into their own pockets to pay people. Nothing about them, Max Schaeffer in particular, ever made me think they were less than standup guys.

I think it's less that they aimed too high than that they tried to aim that high and do it quickly, and they didn't do anything the easy way. They had their own server architecture, their own client, their own chat, their own graphics engine, their own everything basically. Plus they wanted a game that could support thousands of concurrent connections with no downtime, had an engaging single-player campaign, and could support an ongoing, persistent world. It was like picking everything that's hard to do in a game, and then putting it on a brand-new company (two of them, really) with people who hadn't worked together before.

Plus you had Ping0 doing the back-end and multiplayer, working off a forked codebase, and trying to make sure that what they were designing was open enough that it could be marketed to other companies. And then Mythos, with a team working out of Seattle under Travis Baldtree (who is a loving genius, by the way), which had to fit into things somehow even though it wasn't as much of a priority. It was just a really chaotic situation all around. Hopefully the talented guys I met there will bounce back quickly, it's a lovely time to be unemployed in the bay area.

[guenthar]

I expected this to happen since the game wasn't very good and had so many problems and it was hard to get them to fix any of them. I was a beta tester for both games and there was a big problem with a whole skillset with one of the classes (The skillset for the Engineer where you upgraded a robot) that was there long before release and beta testers kept telling them but I guess they ignored them. It was still in there after release and it was one of the biggest problems peole were having with the beta.

[DArtagnan]

I can't say I'm surprised, but I do feel truly sad for Flagship.

They made a lot of mistakes, I'll grant you that, but I always got the sense that it came not from malice or stupidity, but from simply being overly ambitious and trying too much with limited resources and time.

I remain firm in my position that Hellgate had some tremendous core mechanics, but suffered horribly from an extremely poor launch state and some even more unfortunate early issues with payment and what not. Also, the fact that they largely ignored the story aspect was a gigantic design mistake and the one decision that can't really be explained in a sensible way.

Still, they were a great bunch of people from what I could tell from the months I followed the game on the forums - and they were also refreshingly down-to-earth in many ways. I personally despise the corporate image that some big name developers like to make for themselves, and FSS weren't like that in my view.

Crap :(

[Sir Markus]

They should have made a better game, and paid attention to PC gamers requests, but they didn't and witness the results.

Memo to game designers: pay attention to PC gamers. End of story.

[GothicGothicness]

Their funds was just not enough to make a better game, that was the problem.

[martink]

mistake #1 - using the word "Diablo" in any of the pre-game marketing. There's just no way anyone can live up to sweet-sweet melancholy that this word evokes and the corresponding expectations.

It's like saying "free beer" and then charging for the beer. You can't do that.

And you only need one mistake like that.

[martink]

Also, the fact that they largely ignored the story aspect was a gigantic design mistake and the one decision that can't really be explained in a sensible way.


And so as always, it is not the technology that will make a game thrive, it's the story, writing and power to take the player into the game's world and make their stay there an immersive and believable experience.

Whatever the original design and grand ideas were, Hellgate turned into a poorly scripted rail-shooter. And when was the last time such a game was well received?

[Gorath]

Their funds was just not enough to make a better game, that was the problem.

The other way round. They wanted to make more than was possible with their AAA budget. Two complete games (SP, MP), marketable MP server technology, etc. . All developed in-house. It was simply too much. Maybe it would have worked if they had licensed Unreal and a reliable MP server kit. Or scrap the SP mode altogether.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Whatever the original design and grand ideas were, Hellgate turned into a poorly scripted rail-shooter. And when was the last time such a game was well received?

D2 ? I personally never believed it was nothing more than pure railroading, social interactions with NPCs redured to a bare minimum etc. .

Basically they tried to copy the whole concept of such a "reduced game".

Me, I cannot see why they failed. Okay, I didn't like the game, but I thought it was my own and personal taste alone. I don't like action-RPGs anymore (although I had quite some fun with D2/LOD back then).

All I can see that they boiled the concept down to the bare minimum, and tried to put it into an different setting / world.

I cannot see why this didn't work, but I have to acknowledge that it didn't work.

Maybe I cannot see it because I never read reviews for this game, skipping it altogether. But I did this because I don't like action-RPGs in general anymore.

[Ionstormsucks]

D2 ? I personally never believed it was nothing more than pure railroading, social interactions with NPCs redured to a bare minimum etc. .


I think alot has to do with people not being as easily satisfied as a few years ago. People know what's out there. They have been playing WoW and know what's possible. They have choice.

[Turok]

This happen when you get a game that got isometric view and make it like a shooter, you are next Besheda?
________
Oxygen Vaporizer (http://oxygenvaporizer.com)

[Morbus]

Hope so.

In the end, this is all their fault. First, it's important to remember that the damages caused by piracy were minimal in HGL. Second, they fail to understand the PC market and go for a consolish PC-only product. It's only natural that it tanked. Third, they rushed the game out, resulting in poor balance and poor optimization (bugs and stuff). I blame the pretteeh graffeehx for that, they spent too much time on the graphical department.

[Yeesh]

And so as always, it is not the technology that will make a game thrive, it's the story, writing and power to take the player into the game's world and make their stay there an immersive and believable experience.

Hi, my name's Yeesh and I'd like one ticket to your world where story and writing matter. Here's the top ten best selling games fro a recent week in my world as posted by NPD July 8.

1. Spore Creature Creator
2. The Sims 2: IKEA Home Stuff Expansion
3. The Sims 2 Double Deluxe
4. World of Warcraft: Battle Chest
5. Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures
6. World of Warcraft
7. The Sims 2 FreeTime Expansion Pack
8. The Sims 2 Kitchen & Bath Interior Design Stuff Expansion Pack
9. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
10. Diablo Battle Chest

As you can see, story doesn't really play too great a role here. I wonder what your top 10 best selling games are?

[danutz_plusplus]

7. The Sims 2 FreeTime Expansion Pack
8. The Sims 2 Kitchen & Bath Interior Design Stuff Expansion Pack


Lolz. Kitchen & Bath Interior.... :))

[Dhruin]

They failed for two reasons, as far as I can see. Gorath hit the nail on the head, plus they lost the PR war. The idea of paying $10 / month for...well, almost nothing, pissed people off - even people that weren't really interested in the game. Their communication on this was muddy and the value proposition poor. It turned people away, especially when coupled with a poor launch.

[chamr]

I'd add one more reason: the game just wasn't good enough. It wasn't that folks expect more now than they did back in 2001 or that FSS dared invoke the name of Diablo or that they didn't write some wonderful, mind-bending story. HG was not as fun as Diablo. Period. It was just... OK. When expectations are as high as they were with HG and you dain to charge folks a monthly subscription, "just OK" is gonna get you in a heap of trouble.

The flip side is had the game been great and a ton of fun to play, all the other problems would have magically disappeared. It would have flown off the shelves and they'd had the money to fix any of the problems they had.

[Elwro]

When a bad developer of PC games dies, it's a good day for PC gaming. Hope the devs learned their lesson and either switch to consoles or make proper PC titles in their new companies.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

As you can see, story doesn't really play too great a role here. I wonder what your top 10 best selling games are?

To take a real-life example :

People won't visit museums in masses.

Plus, this would destroy the sense of a museum, after all. And the items there, of course as well (bacteria, sweat = butyric acid, etc. ...)

But - : People DO visit museums in masses on certain occations.

For example when there's a Rembrandt exhibition. Or Picasso. Or any well-known name as well.


What i begin to see is that we need more "mature" games in the same sense as museums are "mature", too. Kids won't visit museums, and most people don't as well.

However, the economy-driven layout of ANY cultural thing leads into leaving out which "doesn't sell".

If we had book-keepers and accountants rule the cultural world of our towns, museumswould either be instantly closed (not enough profits) or ONLY cater the masses (maximizing the profits).

There would simply not exist any niche-museums at all.

There would be only "museums for the masses", because that's it what brings profits.


Same goes for the gaming induustry : It is completely business-oriented. No culture at all. All hail to the money !

[zakhal]

Som new rumours:
I'm hearing from sources that the developments over the weekend aren't as bad as they are being made out to be. Apparently there have been layoffs but there are still people working at Flagship. Sadly I don't have any direct corroboration of that to back it up, all I have is grapevine stuff.

[dteowner]

The disappointment of HG:L is really no worse than countless other over-hyped AAA titles (Oblivion, anyone?), so I wonder why so many people are frothing-at-the-mouth pissed with Flagship. And I'm really being serious here--I honestly don't understand why so many people are so irate compared to other stinkers.

[wynams]

Sorry for breaking it up to you, but ... the current verdict is that free to play, pay real dough for perks models is alive and kicking, the world has already said that it is OK, and that's that.
The east perhaps ... I wouldn't say the world by any stretch and definitely not mainstream games/gamers ...

[shagwoodtm]

Ya no kidding...show me proof of where "Free to play, pay for perks" is alive and kicking...besides the east. Long gone are the days where a company puts out something New and Good..now its Rehash and Crap.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

...besides the east.

This is the point.

Overseas, this is still "alive and kicking", as you implicitely admitted.

However, in the "western culture", so to say, it might be different.

I think this might've something to do with our "consume" culture.

[Arma]

Actually, have you played online, browser based games, be it strategy, RPG, or something else? 99 % of them are microtransaction based, and not all of them are eastern imports. Actually, none of them are eastern based. So we can't say that the model is not popular with western audiences. And that's for starters, there's tons more stuff that falls in the same cathegory.

[GothicGothicness]

The other way round. They wanted to make more than was possible with their AAA budget. Two complete games (SP, MP), marketable MP server technology, etc. . All developed in-house. It was simply too much. Maybe it would have worked if they had licensed Unreal and a reliable MP server kit. Or scrap the SP mode altogether.'

Yes, I guess you are right. But Diablo was always one MP and one SP part, and they wanted to use this word diablo in futuristc environment. I do not think the SP costed them that much resources or time to be honest. Even if they focused only on MP I do not think it would have been better. As far as technology goes, they wanted to build an engine with a lot of randomly created content. Most engines at the market today, works best with static or pre-defined content.

To explain what I mean with that let me give a short example, if you build a model in 3ds , you'll use the exporter of the engine, to make a .mesh ( this name varies for each engine ) file. Which optimize the model, textures, and vertices to work in an optimal way with this engine. For physics you also need to create a second set of the same model, but with physics exporeter, which makes calculations and saves another version of the model, which is much lower res but has more physics information, springs, joints and etc etc. If you want to make a lot of random environments with random environments you have to think in a different way.