JoWooD Apologizes for Gothic 3: Forsaken Gods!

[Gorath]

In a surprising move JoWooD issued a German PR with an apology to the community for the quality in which they shipped Gothic 3: Forsaken Gods.
Wien/Österreich, 27.November 2008; Am Beginn steht der Dank an unsere Community, die dem Spiel Gothic 3 - Götterdämmerung ihr bedingungsloses Vertrauen geschenkt haben und bereits im ersten Release-Wochenende sich zum Kauf dieses Spieles entschieden haben.

Leider war es uns nicht möglich diesen Vertrauensvorschuss zur Gänze zu befriedigen. Als Gründe dafür können wir nur die Erwartungshaltung der Community für das Addon und unseren eigenen hochgesteckten Ziele anführen. Die Community und wir wollten das Spiel noch in diesem Jahr fertig gestellt sehen.
JoWooD hat somit gemeinsam mit dem Developerteam unter Hochdruck am Projekt gearbeitet. Wir haben diesem selbstauferlegten Druck nicht Stand gehalten und trotz einer Verschiebung des Releasezeitpunktes um drei Wochen eine Version mit einem dazugehörigen Patch veröffentlicht, der am Ende unsere Versprechen nicht vollständig erfüllen konnte.

Michael Kairat, Executive Producer von JoWooD Productions für dieses Spiel meint dazu im Originalton: „Wir bekommen nun, wie auch zu erwarten war, von der Community die Rechnung präsentiert.“

JoWooD Productions möchte sich hiermit bei allen Fans der Gothic Serie offen und ehrlich entschuldigen, da die Qualität des Produktes tatsächlich nicht zufriedenstellend ist.

Michael Kairat erklärt weiter: „Derzeit wird an Gothic 3 - Götterdämmerung mit Priorität eins gearbeitet, dass innerhalb der nächsten Tage ein Patch zu den bereits zwei Veröffentlichten zur Verfügung gestellt werden kann, der den Qualitätsstandards der Community entspricht. Download über www.jowood.com. Zusätzlich wollen wir einen Content Patch erstellen, in dem weitere Anregungen, Ideen und Wünsche der Community weitgehend umgesetzt werden. Genaueres dazu werden wir nach dem Feedback unserer Community Manager im Laufe der nächsten Woche bekannt geben.“

Aus diesen Fehler lernend werden bei ArcaniA in Verbindung mit Spellbound verstärkt Betatester bereits früh in den Prozess eingebunden, um projektbegleitend deren Anregungen umsetzen zu können.

„JoWooD gesteht gemachte Fehler ein und wird vermeiden, dass sich diese wiederholen.“ ergänzt Michael Kairat für das gesamte Team.
If you find translations please post them in the news thread.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=10854)

[Kostaz]

This tranlation is from WoG by the user bigsnappy (http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/member.php?u=97340)

Here is the translation!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Open words to the community and fans of the Gothic series.

Vienna/Austria, 27th of November 2008; To begin we thank our community, who have given the game Gothic 3 their unconditional support, and have decided already in the first weekend after the release to buy the game.

Unfortunately it wasn’t possible for us to fully satisfy the trust we received in advance. Reasons for this were the high expectations of the community and our own high-reaching goals. We and the community wanted to see the game finished this year.
Under high pressure Jowood has worked on the project together with the development team. We have not been able to cope with this self-imposed pressure and, after having postphoned it for three weeks, released a version including a patch. In the end we could not completely fulfill our promises.

Michael Kairat, Executive Producer of Jowood Productions for this game commented on this. “We are now receiving, as we could have expected, the bill from the community.”

Jowood Productions hereby would like to apologize openly and honestly to all fans of the Gothic series, because the quality of the product is indeed unsatisfactory.

Michael Kairat continues his explanation: “At the time, working on Gothic 3 – Forsaken Gods is our priority number one, so that in the coming days another patch can be added to the two patches that were released previously. A patch which will mirror the quality standards of the community. Dowloading this patch will be possible on www.jowood.com. In addition we want to create a ‘Content Patch’, in which further suggestions, ideas and wishes of the community will be implemented. More details regarding the content patch will be given in the course of next week by our community manager.”

Learning from these mistakes we will include beta-testers earlier in the process of creating Arcania together with Spellbound, in order to be able to implement their suggestions while the project is running.

“Jowood admits they made mistakes, und will prevent their repetition.” Michael Kairat adds, speaking for the whole team.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

There are other translations but this is the most complete

[Dhruin]

From the JoWood forum (http://forum.jowood.com/showthread.php?t=158562)s:

Gothic 3 : Forsaken Gods is full of bugs, just as the main game was. Fans are complaining about the poor quality of the game and JoWooD felt that it's time to release a statement in this regard:

First of all we want to thank the community for showing their support and we also want to thank those who have chosen to buy the game. Unfortunatey, it wasn't possible for us to release a game that could fully satisfy you, for different reasons.

The game was released this year because that was what we and the community desired. JoWooD and Trine have worked under a lot of pressure, and to repair some of the mistakes we released the game with a patch, hoping to make it better.

Michael Kairat, Executive Producer of JoWooD said: We are now getting the full "bill" from the community for our mistakes.

JoWooD Productions would like to present their apologies to the fans for releasing an unsatisfying game.

Furthermore Michael Kairat explained that in the next days a new patch will be released which will improve the quality of the game. It will be available for download on JoWooD's Official Website.

We also want to make a content patch which will include opinions, suggestions, wishes from the community. After the feedback from the community, we will release a statement regarding the patch.

Toghether with Spellbound we will make early beta tests for Arcania: A Gothic Tale, to be sure that past mistakes will not be repeated. JoWooD admits their mistake, and will prevent it from happening again, says Michael Kairat on behalf of the entire team.

Don't speak German, so I can't vouch for the accuracy.

[Krzychu]

"JoWooD Apologizes for Gothic 3: Forsaken Gods!"

That's hilarious! I laughed when I saw that headline... priceless! :lol:
I mean, just think about that for a moment. Heh.

Tsk, tsk, JoWood. How many second chances do you expect to get?

[aries100]

It is always great to see a company admit their mistakes... Me Like. A lot.

On a more general note, though, there is not one member (ok, aybe 1?) of the Jowood Community that wouldn't have understood if Jowood had issued a statement saying that 'we're so sorry, but the game is quite finished yet - it will be out when it it is done. Probably some time in 2009'.

I would rather see a game rescheduled for release.... than released with bugs...

[Squeek]

"Ain't no hangman gonna, he ain't gonna put a rope around me. You better believe it right now. I gotta go now...Hey, Joe. You better run on down (Goodbye everybody!). Hey, Joe. Uhh...run on down." -- [Jimi Hendrix]

[Wulf]

(yes Jimi Hendrix was right on the nail there Squeek)

I think Trine studios should explain openly of any difficulties they might be experiencing in current conditions

It appears they nead a few personel

Senior Programmer
Graphics Programmer
Flash Programmer
Environment Artist
Senior Character Artist
Web Developer
Associate Producer

http://www.trinegames.com/index.php

They will all have to work in Mumbai where the terrorist problems are current news.
The death toll is rising!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7754676.stm

Labour costs are cheaper in that part of the world but how cheap can you get.
I wouldn't work there if you paid me a treble salary - pressure of work and pressure of life.
Jowood want the most for the least and this is the result.

[Turok]

Good they admit they mistake, they got balls to do that, i will buy the game just for support then. I want a good gothic 4.
________
Honda XR650L (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_XR650L)

[Zloth]

I would be highly impressed, too, except that this isn't a new thing. Gothic 3 was in pretty awful shape, too, and the fans had to actually put patches together to get the thing working.

It's not THAT big of a deal going forward, though. After Gothic 3, I already knew to stand back and wait for reviews before spending money on this game. Now I know to keep doing that with JoWood. *IF* they can make a solid game, though, that just means that I buy it a couple of weeks later.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Jowood want the most for the least and this is the result.

Just wanted to point out this sentence, because it describes in all essence the whole problem, imho.

[Wulf]

Absolutely Alrik, without being overly assumptuous, this whole scenario reflects the similarities of the JW v PB debacle, drawing conclusions at Jowood being the most likely common denominator in these ever repeated situations (my personal viewpoint)

Both 'Gothic 3:Forgotten gods' and 'Arcania: A Gothic Tale' to some gamers appear to be natural continuations of their predecessors but they are not. By implying *Gothic* in the titles they look to be true decendants. In truth only Piranha Bytes is the rightful heir to the gothic game throne (gamewriting implying) and they went as far to announce that the Gothic series is dead and finished by them.

Within the constraints of legal hereditory lines Jowood is an imposter, a doppleganger appearing as the ruling decendant, sat on the throne with the air and dignity of some powerful continuing dynasty asserting it's presence for the sake of the gothic fans...as one of gothic's most ardent 'true-blue' fans - i'll have none of it!

If, as others have previously suggested a new set of 'non-gothic' titles had been used it might have had a more neutralising effect of the situation - but then the real 'subliminal continuance' - a kind of freindly smiling brainwashing would not have been achieved.

Releasing a further dozen patches wouldn't make me turn the other cheek of compassion
"Be sure your sins will find you out - you reap what you sow"

with best regards as always
Wulf

[coaster]

I don't really feel that Gothic cannot continue without Piranha. Other companies have managed to continue series pretty well - eg. Obsidian replacing Bioware on KOTOR2 & NWN2; Nival replacing 3D0 for HoMM5; Crystal replacing Core for Tomb Raider Legend & beyond. There is controversy amongst the fan bases about whether these successors are "true" successors, but in all these cases the products were good quality.

Had JoWood/Trine come up with something even of passable quality, I think people would have been fairly forgiving as they haven't had much time and (apparently) a difficult engine to work with. But unfortunately the game fails on so many different levels; bugs, poor optimisation, crap writing of quests/storyline, lack of loot balance, bizarre behaviour by Nameless, etc. However I'm hoping that if Spellbound can get a half-decent and stable engine to work with (not necessarily the one that's the most cutting edge, eg. I thought the one used in Two Worlds was OK) they can focus on the writing and getting the quests up to par. IMHO it's the lack of good quality writing which harms the game most - both Gothic 3, and much more obviously Forgotten Gods, suffer from this.

[TheMadGamer]

Ok so now we have another Gothic brand game, well addon, that is again full of bugs. And this time Piranha Bytes is out of the picture. It's starting to appear that the root of problems all things Gothic is in fact starting to point squarely at Jowood. It will be very interesting to see how well Risen by Pirhanna Bytes will turn out without the involvement of Jowood. If it turns out well, then probably Jowood has been at the root of all the drama over the last few years.

For right now, we get an apology about Foresaken Gods by Jowood. Ok fine. But they absolutley cannot blame Pyrhanna Bytes. Ever since I found out that some developer in India was taking over the franchise I always thought that was totally odd...

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Today I just wondered if the whole add-on project was perhaps too big for the Indian developing studio ???

Maybe they didn't have any clue on the size ??

[Dantre]

Jowood might have apologized for this latest debacle but, as far as I'm concerned, they don't deserve forgiveness. Pretty much everyone knew it would end up like this from the day this expansion was announced, so Jowood had to be even more aware of how things were likely to turn out as well. Did they do anything to prevent it, like delaying the game or even cancel it? No, and this show them to be either terribly incompetent or excessively greedy (or even both). A quick apology isn't gonna change anything.

[Garrett]

How stupid expects Jowood their customers to be after all?

[enodenroH]

How stupid expects Jowood their customers to be after all?

Very much since their managers decided to go on with the sale of an inadequate product.

[BillSeurer]

I got Gothic 3 when it came out and found it almost unplayable. I waited until the "final" patch was available and while it worked (i.e., ran, albeit with plenty of glitches) the actual game story contents were still in poor shape. I wasn't even interested in an expansion since they never finished the original game.

[Ergonpandilus]

I got Gothic 3 when it came out and found it almost unplayable. I waited until the "final" patch was available and while it worked (i.e., ran, albeit with plenty of glitches) the actual game story contents were still in poor shape. I wasn't even interested in an expansion since they never finished the original game.

... except I'm still waiting for that "final patch" to fix the melee combat. Actually the melee combat is BETTER in G3: Forsaken Bugs, but everything else is messed up. I'd ignore the ridiculous dialog, empty towns with mute NPCs, poor quests and all other bugs, but the game balance is just horrible. You get atleast 500gp from each chest and there are PLENTY of chests lying everywhere, lootfest!! :(

[Wulf]

G3 needs a pc-machine with some 'punch' that can cope - not an office machine.

I played G3 for many months without a hitch, a deep experience of graphical excellence with hidden story depth.

Forget the about community patches for G3, they corrupt the storyline - play vanilla!

[Kostaz]

Forget the about community patches for G3, they corrupt the storyline - play vanilla!
????

:S:S
Could you be more specific?
Is it normal that a 2006 game need an Alienware of 2008?

[Wulf]

Re: quote:-
[the actual game story contents were still in poor shape. I wasn't even interested in an expansion since they never finished the original game.]

The game story was excellent and to my knowledge is unequalled in any other game (relative to G1), it was both deep and hidden, the player was left to fathom a path 'beyond' the apparent storyline. The ever-so-small hints and clues were *the* actual hidden path and could only be pieced together by playing the game entirely and progressively with a great depth of thought, so a problem with pc-machine matching would indeed cause an incomplete game experience. Like many others i had to uprade graphics, cpu and mainboard in order to play the game decently so i sympathise with any gothic player not being able to enjoy or appreciate the game because of the heavy (at that time) pc-requirement demand.

G3 was actually declared publicly by the dev's as a revisit to G1 which has the original obscured (unrealised) theme "conflict of the gods" - which was completely ignored by the majority of players.

PB declared on release of G3 going 'gold' that the game was completly playable and indeed i played it in vanilla state for many months without any hitch - the hidden in-depth similarities to G1 were amazing, the concept likeness was almost identical --> to appease Adanos yet not disrespect Innos or even Beliar, the only way of staying true to the cause was to stay loyal to Innos and not to deviate in the slightest - this variably applies to both G1 and G3 storylines (but not definite in G2).

So, if you play G3 with any community patches, you will, in my profound judgement, corrupt the original hidden story context. For example the Community patches upturned the intentional hidden deceptive twelvth chalice quest and other such hidden diversions - meaning you could never ever find the true hidden path through the game if using a CP patch. Want the true subjective path with the Xardas deviant conlusion?.....then i suggest to play vanilla G3....and remember as you play, do not forsake the gods.

[Kostaz]

I fail to see the similarities between G1 and G3 but maybe it's just that i dont get it.

played it in vanilla state for many months without any hitch
I completed the vanilla state of G3 but saying that you didnt had any problems it just crazy!Neither Piranhas nor Jowood agree with you ,you must be the only person on the planet to say that.
For example the Community patches upturned the intentional hidden deceptive twelvth chalice quest

I remember that that quest was broken. well they had to do something either remove the 2nd biggest quest in the game or fix it by any means necessary.I see community patches as a salvation for G3.

[Benedict]

Foolish move by them really, after Gothic 3 didn't go down that well you'd have thought they'd take no chances, much better to delay release as long as needed to get it working properly.

Fingers crossed piranha bytes makes a high quality product now they're out on their own :)

[Wulf]

Many gamers played and enjoyed vanilla G3 Kostaz. Every gamer to their own playing style and enjoyment i always say - and their pc-machine choice. I still have the unpatched game loaded on the hard-drive. G3 still starts up and plays without problems, no files are tampered with in any way - just as it came straight out of the box, just as PB implied.
..............................
In G3's unpatched state, one of the twelve chalices was a decoy, a devious quest-fail ploy and of course you would never know which is the decoy before placing them on the pedestals therefore it would take a very long time replaying the quest to get at the solution to find the real answer, in other words the quest has unknowingly and inadvertantly failed, not exactly broken and very similar to G1 quest-fail detours. You don't exactly 'fail' the quests by definition, the game continues and diverts the player down an alternative yet seemingly default route.

The first chalice on the left hand side nearest to Innos's monastery shrine is a 'ghost' of the real one.

.............................
Anyway back on topic,

I do wholeheartedly agree with Jowoods game's title choice "Forsaken Gods" it fits perfectly and reflects with G1 and G3 story concept though for some diverse reason not with G2 which slightly sidetracked the original aim.

[BillSeurer]

Wulf, the story in Gothic3 was incredibly shallow. Every town was a little mini story that was exactly the same without any real interaction between them. Every town you did a bunch of little quests until you reached a point where you had to choose one side or the other. Having liberated or not any other town had no effect on the next one.

Yes, even after freeing all the towns but one the rebels still wanted me to do trivial quests to prove my loyalty to them and the orcs somehow never figured out that the guy with the paladin armor and flaming sword was the same guy with paladin armor and flaming sword that had slaughtered hundreds of other orcs and freed the other towns. You'd think that the orcs that ran away would mention something like that.

The whole chalice thing and choosing sides in the god war was a thin veneer slapped on the rest of the game that had little to do with it. It was so hidden I doubt most people ever realized it was there before they gave up on the game.

BTW, I think they had some great ideas for Gothic3 but somehow it never all congealed into a whole. It's like different groups were working on different areas and never talked.

[Kostaz]

BTW, I think they had some great ideas for Gothic3 but somehow it never all congealed into a whole. It's like different groups were working on different areas and never talked.
Exactly what most people at the community believe,PB bit more than they could chew.

@Wulf I was one of the people who played and enjoyed G3 vanilla state but man this game was more buggy than Windows ME!!
I even had BSODs with it.Do you know what its like to liberate Vengard lvl 30 and once you're over the game asks you where the $#@^ is the guru?
As for the chalice I had no idea but it sound kinda stupid.

Strange me, I'm waiting for CP 1.7 so that it could further corrupt the storyline and I'm sure I'll love it.Maybe something (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism) is wrong with me:biggrin: