Sri Lanka and the LTTE

[Pladio]

I've finally talked to my friend, who's Tamil.
He told me he finds the LTTE, at its base correct, since when they started all they wanted was to help the Tamil. Like, just a civil rights movement. But he now thinks that both the LTTE and SL government are as bad as each other. The LTTE is filed with anger now instead of peace and hope.

He says the regular people have no problem whatsoever with each other, and it mostly the Sinhalese aristocracy and the LTTE that are just stupid.

The SLA just bombed into a designated safe zone: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

[Damian Mahadevan]

Small world, i am Tamil too. And i agree completely. None of the civilians give a shit who is in power or what not. It is just the government versus the rebels which give a damn.

[Prime Junta]

This just in: Sri Lanka wants to put Tamils in concentration camps for about three years, in order to figure out which ones are LTTE (in order to shoot or permanently imprison them) and which ones are not. They're asking Britain for funding. Of course, the concentration camps would be strictly off-limits to the ICRC, the press, or any other international oversight.

[ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5721635.ece ]

Question for you, Pladio: a while back, you stated that you generally side with legitimate government authority against insurgents. What do you think would be the proper reaction, if your government decided to herd you into concentration camps based on your ethnicity? Go meekly, trusting the assurances that the innocent will be safe and only the guilty will be punished, or resist? This remind you of anything?

[coyote]

I suppose I am with Pladio on this one: the LTTE does not offer hope anymore, and have become as much an enemy of the Tamil civilians as the Sri Lankan Government. There is no side to choose.

I wonder how the Government wants to find out who is a Tamil Tiger and who is not, though. Do they have that kind of intelligence?

If not, it makes sense that they want to detain the Tamil refugees as long as possible in order to isolate part of the terrorists. Given their sentiments against Tamils in general, it most likely does not even enter their mind that it is morally objectionable to imprison complete innocents -- let alone for several years.

[Pladio]

This just in: Sri Lanka wants to put Tamils in concentration camps for about three years, in order to figure out which ones are LTTE (in order to shoot or permanently imprison them) and which ones are not. They're asking Britain for funding. Of course, the concentration camps would be strictly off-limits to the ICRC, the press, or any other international oversight.

[ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5721635.ece ]

Question for you, Pladio: a while back, you stated that you generally side with legitimate government authority against insurgents. What do you think would be the proper reaction, if your government decided to herd you into concentration camps based on your ethnicity? Go meekly, trusting the assurances that the innocent will be safe and only the guilty will be punished, or resist? This remind you of anything?

Concentration camps are a whole other thing. The Palestinians weren't put into concentration camps by the Israelis. Not even close. I could agree that the Gazans live in bad circumstances, but they weren't like that before Hamas' takeover, nor are they concentration camps to find out who is an insurgent or not.

You know very well what the differences are, especially since you are very knowledgeable about the situation!

[Pladio]

I suppose I am with Pladio on this one: the LTTE does not offer hope anymore, and have become as much an enemy of the Tamil civilians as the Sri Lankan Government. There is no side to choose.

I wonder how the Government wants to find out who is a Tamil Tiger and who is not, though. Do they have that kind of intelligence?

If not, it makes sense that they want to detain the Tamil refugees as long as possible in order to isolate part of the terrorists. Given their sentiments against Tamils in general, it most likely does not even enter their mind that it is morally objectionable to imprison complete innocents -- let alone for several years.

I am not with you completely.
I think putting everyone in a concentration camp is wrong. I however do not believe that the government which was protecting itself from suicide bombers was wrong. Launching an attack on the rebels' capital was justified. Putting them in concentration camps is wrong though and will just fuel more anger.

[coyote]

I am not with you completely.

Probably. On the one hand, I believe that the Tamil Tigers are so in love with the relative power and freedom they have as military renegades that they will never commit to a resolution of the civil war unless ridiculous demands are met. As such, I am not unhappy when they are defeated.

On the other hand, the current Sri Lankan government continues to demonstrate that it cares little for the welfare of the Tamil population. I do not know whether actual separation of Sri Lanka into autonomous Tamil and Singhalese parts -- with strong economic ties -- is more desireable or constitutional regulations against the discrimination of the Tamil minority, but the current situation is unbearable even when the LTTE is completely taken out of the picture in my opinion.

The problem is that without the LTTE, there will be little motivation to improve the situation of the Tamils for the government -- or am I wrong?

[Pladio]

That's the point PJ is saying for Israel and the Palestinians, that once there is peace, there is no room for improvement.
Sri Lanka is however a little bit different than Israel as its inhabitants aren't either Israeli or Palestinian, they have Tamil, they have Singhalese and they have mixed people. (the question now would be, do they use Nuremberg Laws to decide who is Tami and who isn't?) Also, there are quite a bit of Tamil people who live in parts of Sri Lanka which are mostly Singhalese, even Colombo has a very big minority of Tamils(source:Wiki), so silent (mass) protests would be a possibility to disrupt the economic and social life.

[Prime Junta]

BTW, I agree that the LTTE has long since left its original mission behind; the means have displaced the ends. But that doesn't change the fact that I find the idea of putting people in concentration camps based on ethnicity utterly abhorrent. Even the rhetoric of "resettlement" is exactly the same that Nazi Germany used to get the Jews into their camps -- they didn't tell them to please step this way to be gassed; they told them that they'd be resettled in newly "liberated" land in the East so there wouldn't be all these nasty conflicts between them and the "Arisch." I have no way of knowing what the real intentions of the Sinhalese government are; I doubt they intend to pull off an Endlösung on the Tamils. But I am quite certain that should this go ahead -- ethnically-based concentration camps with no international or public oversight -- enormous numbers of completely innocent people will suffer and die. Which, of course, means that the conflict itself will start all over again once the Tamils have had time to regroup and rearm.

IOW, this is wrong, wrong, WRONG.

[Pladio]

And with that I agree.

[coyote]

Same here, I think we can all agree that these "welfare villages" <-- how is that for euphemism, hmm? -- are morally wrong to begin with and only worsen the situation, certainly for the Tamils who are isolated from their native villages but eventually also the Sri Lankan government.

That neither journalists nor diplomats are allowed to visit is quite frankly outrageous and will only serve to fuel suspicions. There is one report from an anonymous international aid worker who notes that they are overcrowded and there are issues with the water supply, but suggests it might be an improvement over running from bullets and living under a tree. How long the presence of international aid will be permitted is not mentioned in the article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/14/AR2009021401639.html), though.

There is one tragically hilarious statement from the President's brother Basil Rajapaksa in regard to sealing off the camps from international oversight in the same piece of news (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/14/AR2009021401639.html): "We also want to give these people dignity and privacy, this is not like visiting a zoo. These are innocent people. Why should people go and take photographs of them and exploit them to get aid donations like they did during the tsunami time? We are not here to satisfy the international community. These are our Sri Lankan brothers. We are thinking about them."

Mhm. Sure they are...

[Corwin]

Sounds like it's time to get the international Cricket fraternity involved. Nothing seems to work better in some countries, than Sports diplomacy. In many of these countries, certain sports are their main 'religion'.

[Pladio]

My friend here was supposed to play a miradangam (drums) concert in London for a 500 or so crowd, but the day before the concert, they got death threats from the LTTE who told them they couldn't play. So they had to cancel their concert.
My friend was really sad as they had prepared for it for several weeks...

These conflicts are so far reaching it's amazing (in a bad way)....

[Pladio]

6500 people killed in Sri Lanka in the last thee months.

I had another talk with my friend and he told me that there's even more people dying each day than what this article is saying.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090424/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

[Prime Junta]

Yup, looks exceedingly ugly. Looks like the Sri Lankan military have decided to settle the matter once and for all -- and it looks like the world is happy to look the other way while it's happening. That shows a great deal how much damage the LTTE has done to the legitimacy of the Tamils' struggle there.

[Pladio]

The Rebels declare a cease-fire of their own.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090426/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

[Prime Junta]

"Surrender without conditions," more like. I hadn't expected them to go down this easily, truth be told -- looks like turning into a quasi-state with a quasi-army made them sitting ducks for a real state and a real army.

Let's hope this thing winds down sooner rather than later, and that the people affected can start putting their lives together again.

I wouldn't mind if there was a bit of an investigation into what went down, either.

[Pladio]

Well, they can't call it that otherwise they would lose everything they still have, which isn't a lot.
But yeah, trying to build up their own army probably was their downfall.

Depending on the government's reaction, the outcome will be totally different. Last time they wanted a cease-fire, the government said no.

It would be hard to press for an investigation and not easy to investigate as the government hasn't allowed for any foreign journalists to come in I think. And the LTTE's information would probably be disinformation from the other side too.

[V7]

I don't see the government stopping till they have a complete victory and after a war that long and violent I'd be supprised if there weren't at least a few cases of prisoners lined up against the wall. Looks like they're treating the refugees to a pretty restrictive regime too.

[Pladio]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090427/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

The government, under heavy pressure, decided to stop its heavy aerial attacks, after saying it is not going to accept the cease-fire call from the rebels.
Makes me wonder ...

Also, I don't actually believe that they'll stop, the LTTE I mean, I think they're going to go guerilla ...

[V7]

Also, I don't actually believe that they'll stop, the LTTE I mean, I think they're going to go guerilla ...

Absolutly, if I was running the show I'd be burrying as many weapons as I could and disbanding the fighters into the jungle and/or sending them out mixed up with the refugees.

[Prime Junta]

True, but they will be severely disrupted and disorganized, and their mad guerrilla skills will have rusted too, over the time they pretended to be a regular army with a navy and air force and stuff. That means there will be a window of opportunity to nail the lid shut on this one.

What do you think the odds are of the Sri Lankan government managing that? Honest question -- I've no idea what they're thinking there; it's just that the usual, obvious things are usually counterproductive, and doing the stuff that would work (i.e., a massive relief, reconstruction, and development effort to buy off the populace) is usually politically untenable, not to mention expensive.

[V7]

Really hard to tell at this point, the refugee camps arn't encouraging (armed military guards, restricted movements and so on) but that should probably be expected while they try and sort out the civilians for the combatants. There's likely to be international aid as well - certainly India isn't going to want to see a lot of Tamil refugees stuck in camps growing increasingly militant. I woulnd't discount the Sri Lankans either, they're not stupid and they do have a real chance to end this now.

[Pladio]

I think the only way to crush it is if they go all the way to the last 6km strip and flush them out. Not only that, to stop an insurrection from rising in the future they would either have to put the Tamil people under too or give them economical and cultural incentives to come back to the forefront and not be second-class citizens.

[Prime Junta]

I think the only way to crush it is if they go all the way to the last 6km strip and flush them out. Not only that, to stop an insurrection from rising in the future they would either have to put the Tamil people under too or give them economical and cultural incentives to come back to the forefront and not be second-class citizens.

There's the rub -- there are too many of 'em to kill, the mainland won't take 'em back, and if you try to keep 'em down, they'll just start the LTTE up all over again, only angrier. OTOH, putting those economic and cultural incentives in place is expensive, both in terms of money and political capital -- the Sinhalese will be asking, "did we fight this bloody war just so my tax money would bankroll those layabouts?"

If the government can resolve it, I will salute it big-time. Generally speaking, though, it doesn't happen. It'll be interesting to see if Buddhists are everything they're cracked up to be...

[Pladio]

Who's Buddhist ?

And not kill, but flush out in a quasi-Israeli-January-offensive way, where they destroy weapon caches and assassinate leaders. Also destroy their way of getting weapons, meaning taking hold of the coast and airspaces. They're getting weapons from somewhere, so...

Since this isn't Gaza getting weapons from tunnels, they could actually pull it off, I think.

[V7]

Since this isn't Gaza getting weapons from tunnels, they could actually pull it off, I think.

Its a lot easier getting weapons onto a long jungle lined coast than smuggling them through one of the most tightly controled borders in the world

[Pladio]

Sri Lanka's coast isn't the Gulf of Aden and they control the waters and now that they destroyed most of the LTTE's military assets. I don't think it's easy to get weapons through a range of patrol boats...

[V7]

Sri Lanka's coast isn't the Gulf of Aden and they control the waters and now that they destroyed most of the LTTE's military assets. I don't think it's easy to get weapons through a range of patrol boats...

Gaza has one of the shortest and most closely monitored broders in the world (Singapore and Hong Kong are the only places I can think comparable). Sri Lanka has 1,340km of coastline (compared with 40km of coast and 62km of land boundries for Gaza - only 11 of which is with Eqypt). The Jaffna peninsual is less than 100km from the Indian coast and at the narrowest point you can see Sri Lanka from india across the Palk stright. Keep in mind also that there's a substantial Tamil commnity in India's south. Israel has an economy twice the size of Sri Lanka's and spends proportionaly three times as much on the military most of it concentrated on high tech. Sorry i just don't think the situations bare much resemblance.

[Pladio]

Yes, Sri Lanka has a long coastline, but the 6km strip of land the rebels hold is just 6km long...

[Prime Junta]

Yes, Sri Lanka has a long coastline, but the 6km strip of land the rebels hold is just 6km long...

I think we can safely say the rebels aren't going to hold that for very long.

But that won't make any difference if the LTTE returns to guerrilla warfare. They'll simply be underground, operating on terrain nominally controlled by the Sri Lankan Army. You know, group, strike, disperse; preferably at night. Smuggle weapons in on fishing boats from India. That sort of thing. The terrain is plumb near ideal for guerrilla operations, which is exactly why the LTTE were so successful at it for so long; there's no reason they couldn't start it all up again, if they can retain the support of the Tamil population there.

And that's the crux of the matter. If the Sinhalese can bring the Tamils on board the Sri Lankan polity in a way that's good enough that they *won't* turn to the now-dispersed LTTE for protection (not to mention out of sheer anger), then the problem could be solved once and for all. But if they can't, it's only a matter of time until the whole thing starts up all over again.

(Who's Buddhist? The Sinhalese, that's who -- Sri Lanka is mostly Theravada Buddhist.)

[Pladio]

The Sinhalese will have a hard time getting the Tamil on board if they keep treating them as second-class citizens...

[Pladio]

Well, what my friend was saying seems to be true. They're just massacring people now. They're trying to crush the spirits of the whole Tamil people and show them who's boss. This is really bad since they keep throwing everything they have at them with no regard to human life at all.
It's war and I understand people dying, but shelling hospitals and safe zones isn't real good even in war-like situations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

And the outrage in the world seems to be growing, though at a very low pace compared to some other place everyone knows I'm talking about.

[Prime Junta]

Yep, it is awful, more or less as I feared. And it won't work, unless they go completely genocidal.

So much for Buddhism as the one religion that stops people from doing shit like this.

[Rithrandil]

Do any of you have any like...good background information on this? I'm ... aware that this is going on, but I know nothing about the actual conflict - what are they fighting over, etc etc etc.

[Prime Junta]

Only very superficial. Here's the deal, very very briefly:

Back in the day when the Brits were ruling the world, they started some major tea plantations in Ceylon (what is now Sri Lanka). They needed people to work the plantations. The native Sinhalese were too rich or too proud, so they brought in massive numbers of dirt-poor Tamils from the mainland and left the Sinhalese in what you'd nowadays call managerial positions.

Independence follows, India breaks up, Ceylon becomes Sri Lanka. With the Brits gone, the richer, more educated Sinhalese were left running the show. The Tamils, being still poor and breeding faster than the Sinhalese, started demanding some improvements.

The Sinhalese didn't want to play ball, so the Tamils organized as the Liberation Tigers Tamil Eelam, or LTTE for short, and made some major innovations such as the suicide vest. They pushed back the Sri Lankan army and formed a quasi-state of their own. The LTTE turned from a terrorist/guerrilla organization into something that looks a lot like a regular army; they even made air raids over Colombo and sank some Sri Lankan Navy vessels.

Until recently, the LTTE were running the show on the Tamil side of the tracks (and, as usually happens, had turned from a poor but successful and extremely popular resistance movement into a richer, corrupt, and less popular military junta of sorts). The Sri Lankan military seems to have been doing some serious brushing up on their mad fighting skills, since they're now very close to decisively defeating them.

It's been one of those things that run on and on seemingly for ever, and I haven't been following it all that closely; I had no idea the power relations had shifted so much that the Sri Lankan Army could give the LTTE such a thrashing.

It's a shame it's turning out like it usually does; the Sinhalese would have an opening to nail the lid shut on this thing once and for all, but it won't happen by wantonly killing people -- the LTTE will simply regroup and reorganize as an underground resistance movement and the whole thing will start all over again. The mainland is a short boat trip away, the coasts are mostly jungle, the straits are filled with fishing boats, and on the other side are massive numbers of mainland Tamils willing to lend their brethren a hand, e.g. by shipping in guns and ammo.

But then the Buddhists believe in things going in cycles.

[Pladio]

Except for Wiki, I also have a Tamil friend and have been looking at the news on the situation since the start of the year... A bit before they captured the LTTE's de facto capital of Kilinochi or something like that.

PJ does seem to have a good grasp of the affair, but it's a bit more complicated than that according to my friend.
He says that it's actually both sides' governments which are mostly to blame. Sinhalese and Tamil people living next to each other have close to no problems. It's the government which has never wanted to give the Tamil more rights and the LTTE wouldn't stop till they got them.
Unfortunately and as is the case with Israel and Gaza. Tamil people are not a necessity for Sri Lanka to operate properly (in contrast to south Africa and India) and as such, no peaceful outcry was ever really heard or listened to.

[Prime Junta]

Here's a more detailed and much more entertaining answer to your question, Rith: "The LTTE Shoulda Listened To Yo' Mao-Mao (http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-the-ltte-shoulda-listened-to-yo%E2%80%99-mao-mao/all/1/)," by Gary Brecher the War Nerd.

(N.b.: Gary Brecher is a pseudonym; I don't think he's a data entry technician and I don't think he lives in Fresno either; he's certainly not the fat guy on the photo. I suspect he's actually Dr. John Dolan.)

[Pladio]

PJ, I wonder what you think about what I had said earlier in the Middle East thread.
I said something along the lines of that the media was overly representing Israel as a bogeyman, almost never represents other countries in similar fashions and even if they did it at some point, it wouldn't be as harsh or for the same length of time. Also that it's the same with almost everyone here who talked against Israel's wrongdoings, criticized its strategy and so, etc. et al.....

Don't you see that it is actually true.
Israel : 300 dead -> World outrage, every media outlet criticizes tactics
Sri Lanka: 300 dead -> What's Sri Lanka

Israel: 1000 dead -> massive protests around the world (some seen/unseen), EU, UN outraged and even US softening tone. Arab world crying.
Sri Lanka: 1000 dead -> Oh they captured the rebels' stronghold Kilisomething.

Israel: 1300 dead and end of conflict -> Should launch investigations in everything that happened and show the world the atrocities committed by Israel.
Sri Lanka: 1300 dead -> Bla

Sri Lanka: 6500 dead -> News catches up. UN says something or other. 3-month long conflict. Government is right in attacking rebels so everything is okay, collateral damage is acceptable.

Sri Lanka: Unknown number of deaths, more than 6500 and attacks several hospitals and designated safe zones -> UN says something. Some outrage in Tamil communities, some media picks it up, but then fades away rather quickly.


Now, I do understand you... PJ, you have Lebanese family, you have (strong) ties to the conflict and the Palestinian-Israel conflict would bother you more than some faraway conflict somewhere, but explain to me why all the other people on this forum and the media-outlets and even the UN don't seem to mind 1000 people dying in Sri Lanka, while a 1000 deaths in Israel seems to be the worst thing to ever happen in the world.

[Rithrandil]

To be fair no one is flying planes into buildings or blowing up subway cars elsewhere in the world and using the violence in Sri Lanka as an excuse.

[Pladio]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090512/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

[Pladio]

To be fair no one is flying planes into buildings or blowing up subway cars elsewhere in the world and using the violence in Sri Lanka as an excuse.

What does that mean ?

[Rithrandil]

What does that mean ?

That the rest of the world isn't noticing it (for better or worse) because it doesn't affect them. If the LTTE started carrying out terrorist attacks elsewhere in the world or some other groups used the conflict as an excuse to carry out terrorist attacks elsewhere in the world it would probably get more press coverage. Or if there was a bunch of oil nearby.

[Prime Junta]

@Pladio -- I can only repeat what I've said earlier: we're harder on Israel because we identify with Israel -- they're a Western(ized), largely secular, capitalist democracy based on Enlightenment ideas.

Therefore, we feel more strongly about Israel doing stuff that we feel is wrong than we feel about, say, Zimbabwe or Sri Lanka doing such stuff. It's the same reason we're harder on the USA than on Russia when each of them pulls off some murderous shit. If Belgium decided to suddenly try to re-annex Congo, we would be extremely pissed off about that too.

[Pladio]

I thought Sri Lanka was a westernized country as well. Or they turned unwesternized now that they blew up hospitals ?

[dteowner]

If Dubya can't point to it on a map, it's non-Western and subject to either complete ignorance or immediate invasion. For that matter, if they've changed their country's name in the past century, they're obviously a tin-pot backwater unworthy of our notice. ;)

[Pladio]

Israel used to be Palestine though ;)

[Prime Junta]

I thought Sri Lanka was a westernized country as well. Or they turned unwesternized now that they blew up hospitals ?

That's news to me. I've always thought of it as an extension of India, only Buddhist, whenever it actually even makes a blip on my radar. You know, this sort of thing:

http://kitakyushu.iges.or.jp/cities/city%20pictures/sri-lanka01.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/67/198298704_b5c95e591e.jpg

I've certainly never thought of it as Westernized, let alone Western -- and I don't think I'm in the minority about this.

[dteowner]

Israel used to be Palestine though ;)You're assuming I'm not including them in the category as well... ;)

[Pladio]

That's news to me. I've always thought of it as an extension of India, only Buddhist, whenever it actually even makes a blip on my radar. You know, this sort of thing:

http://kitakyushu.iges.or.jp/cities/city%20pictures/sri-lanka01.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/67/198298704_b5c95e591e.jpg

I've certainly never thought of it as Westernized, let alone Western -- and I don't think I'm in the minority about this.

Westernized, as in a democracy, which even though religious not very extremist in it. Also capitalist until the lest elections.

[Prime Junta]

Westernized, as in a democracy, which even though religious not very extremist in it. Also capitalist until the lest elections.

That's not the same thing. We're talking about identities here -- who you are, which groups you identify with. It's the same reason I feel much worse about what Nazi Germany did than what, say, the Khmer Rouge did, because I identify more with Germans than Cambodians. Is it rational? No, it isn't, but that's how it goes.

It goes both ways, too -- one way to put it is that if Israel wants to participate in the Eurovision song contest, that means the default assumption is that it behaves like a European country.

BTW, I don't think we ought to derail this thread with a discussion on Israel/Palestine or what the world thinks about it. It's not fair to the Sri Lankans.

[Pladio]

You're right. PMed you instead.

[Pladio]

The army seems to know what they're doing. They've locked them inland and in so doing have also cut off the rebels' line of supply, the one from the mainland.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090515/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

They're saying everything should be over in 48 hours...

[vanedor]

It seems to me that they claimed that it's almost over for a few months now. Just look at the beginning of this thread.

[Prime Junta]

I don't know if it's 48 hours or a couple more weeks, but it's pretty clear the conventional part of the war is over.

But I don't think we've seen the last of the LTTE, nor that Sri Lanka will see peace in a while.

[Pladio]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090517/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

The government is saying it'll be over by Tuesday and there'll be a presidential address.

[Damian Mahadevan]

Finally over thats great.

[Benedict]

@Pladio -- I can only repeat what I've said earlier: we're harder on Israel because we identify with Israel -- they're a Western(ized), largely secular, capitalist democracy based on Enlightenment ideas.



Can't speak for anyone else, but aside from cultural identification issues I feel less strongly about the Sri Lankan issue because of the power dynamics. For a while they were fairly evenly matched, then with a bit of chinese assistance it went quickly (by the standards of these things) from evenly balanced to a complete rout that utterly smashed one side.

When conflict is reasonably equal (or has been equal recently enough that people are justifiably concerned that it might soon be equal again) then it's much more understandable for both sides to do whatever the hell they have to in order to win, because anything less quite possibly means losing.

When one side is overwhelmingly superior and suffering no more than token casualties I hold them to higher human rights standards because they can afford higher standards.

And on that note - if the sri lankan government were to continue to be brutal towards the Tamils (even if that only means letting the humanitarian crisis run its course without offering aid) even now they've basically won I think people will stop letting them get away with so much. As PJ says there's cultural identification issues so we'll probably still not be that bothered because, after all, they're brown and nobody really expects that much from brown people, but I think there'll still be some shift in tone.

[Pladio]

Actually they finally got access to a camp in Sri Lanka. I saw it on the BBC several hours ago.
They live in terrible conditions, behind barbed wire.
Sri Lanka's PR guy for that camp said something along the lines of: You in the west have different ideas of barbed wire, for us it is to protect the people from the ... few Tamil being suicide bombers who might try to come inside.

The headcount stands at at least 8000 according to my count. Which is 6500 from the UN count + 1000 deaths a few days later from the hospital shelling. And a few hundred more.

I suspect my count to be quite a bit lower than the actual amount though, since no one was let into the zone, so anything could have happened.

I wonder when the outcry will start... I think there'll be even less of things there now. Sri Lanka won't have to resort to terrible measures (shelling, killing) to stop the LTTE, at least for a while. If the Tamil live in poor conditions, people won't care so much...

[Benedict]

I wonder when the outcry will start...


I think it'll build gradually unless the government makes some kind of humanitarian outreach. They've won now so they can afford to, although a bit of a grace period for it to fully sink in that they've won is understandable.

[Pladio]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

Some talk about the camps and some UN Relief agencies and the Red Cross.

[Pladio]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090524/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_civil_war

They're not allowing aid agencies in the camps... for now, according to the president.

[Damian Mahadevan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_7yox5clnM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCccEETvnzk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kmvP1OCWIs

Datelines segment on the whole thing.

[coyote]

Another very disturbing news from Sri Lanka: several of the physicians who had worked in the north-western war zone to the last moment are now under arrest on charges of collaborating with the enemy. They had talked to journalists about the situation in the otherwise completely sealed off areas -- both from international aid and press -- and now the government accuses them of "spreading rumours" about the Sri Lankan military firing on hospitals where members of the LTTE had used civilian hostages as human shields:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8083505.stm

[Pladio]

The government says not a single civilian died as a result of its final offensive, despite international allegations to the contrary.

Ah-hum ? I don't think I'll believe that one...

[Prime Junta]

Walp, the normal way of classifying casualties in counterinsurgency warfare is "if it's dead and male, it's a combatant."

However, the LTTE was well known for fielding women and children as well, so...

[Pladio]

So "not a single civilian died" is valid ?

[Prime Junta]

That was an attempt at gallows humor, Pladio.

[Pladio]

Oh, sorry. I'm not very good at seeing humour on the internet, especially when there are no smileys...

[Pladio]

I think it'll build gradually unless the government makes some kind of humanitarian outreach. They've won now so they can afford to, although a bit of a grace period for it to fully sink in that they've won is understandable.

Well, it's been almost two months ... How long is the grace period supposed to last ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090718/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_internment_camps

[txa1265]

Well, it's been almost two months ... How long is the grace period supposed to last ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090718/ap_on_re_as/as_sri_lanka_internment_camps

That is just brutal ... it is really sad how this has fallen out of the news. Now if they had had Michael Jackson's memorial there ...

[Pladio]

Another month goes by, ...
Conditions worsen, ...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j_9hREUke0ee-YwA4znfiCIIZXCw

And the grace period is still on...

Some good news however ... Tourism is slowly going back up in Sri Lanka...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-08/15/content_11888109.htm
:raincloud:

[dteowner]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090911/wl_nm/us_srilanka_war_displaced

A few (if you can call thousands "few") refugees are headed home.

[Pladio]

Some good news, finally ...

[dteowner]

Thread necro, but this is clearly the right place for this bit of nonsense. So what does a suspected war criminal do after stomping out an ethnic minority? Well, get a posh job at the UN, of course. The UN is a farce, folks.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/war_criminal_gets_un_job_6ujUFMXYR2NhlrrxF3euZJ

[Thrasher]

Bad reasoning, DTE. A nation has the choice to appoint anyone they want to a position to the UN. It's the Sri Lanka government that is a farce, not the UN.

Looks like you're listening to much to Rupert Murdock's corporate right-wing misinformation network...

[dteowner]

The UN has the power to deny a seat to any representative, thus we're back to the real farce. Back to the excuse bag must you go.

Ask Michael Moore next time you're getting your talking points and he'll confirm it for you if you'd like.

[Thrasher]

Funny how you Republicans whine and cry wolf about the UN usurping national sovereignty, except when they don't of course. Then they are a farce. LOL! Gotcha!

[dteowner]

Different responses to completely different situations, but the sad comedy that is the UN is certainly consistent across all of them. I can definitely understand why you'd gloss over some of those pesky deeper nuances, though, when you're trying to manufacture a gotcha moment. Michael would be proud of you.

Two poorly aimed froths in one afternoon! You must have rested up over the weekend. You might consider quality over quantity next time around.

[Thrasher]

It's fun to catch you in your typical hypocritical best!