Mother Rat

[Corwin]

Anyone have any advice for dealing with Mother Rat? My party doesn't seem to survive very long and she must have a zillion HP's. I also appear to be trapped in her lair, so I can't even make an expeditious retreat!!

[Arhu]

My immediate advice is to come back later, with level 6+ or so. That's what I did (my party had levels from 7-8 and I still found the encounter challenging). You do have more than one savegame, don't you?

That's a fight that was misplaced a bit in the game in that it was available too early. And the rats are way too intelligent and powerful for their level, as they always attack the weakest party member first. They produce wounds quickly and if one of your characters gets 5 wounds, they die.

One trick I've heard about was to lure her to the entrance or even farther back to where you came from, so that when a new pack of 3 rats spawns they won't see you. Also, be sure that you don't engage her when there are still other rats around. In my first tries there was another pack of rats that patrolled near her, which were way too many to deal with on top of the mother. The fight should start with her being alone, then after a short while she'll periodically get help from 3 more rats.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

You just need to kill everything that attacks your characters with magical possibilities, imho, because the rats attack them first.

You also need "Selbstbeherrschung" ("endurance" ?) at a relatively high level.
And dexterity, too.

Plus, of course, good armor and weapons.

I also used weakening spells much.
And came back with level 8 or so.

Mother Rat is something of an "insider's joke gone wrong", because it is actually kind of a parody on the usual beginner's quests of RPGs "clear my cellar of rats".

[wolfing]

Anyone have any advice for dealing with Mother Rat? My party doesn't seem to survive very long and she must have a zillion HP's. I also appear to be trapped in her lair, so I can't even make an expeditious retreat!!

I thought I was screwed there too, as I went there at level 3 and no matter what I tried, most I did was get it to half health. Luckily for me, I had decided to leave the dungeon at the last level to get Dranor, so when I faced the rat (quicksaving after the area was locked), I didn't miss anything as the autosave was right there.
I'm just about to finish the Moors, so I hope it's revenge time on that rat for my group!

[mute]

Good to see that i am not the only one having problem... :)

[Krzychu]

I managed to kill her at level 9 I think. Like Arhu said, you should engage her only after she's alone - enter the chamber, and then try to lure the other rats to you and get rid of them. After that you can save in a different slot, and cast all the buffing spells you want. One thing I learned was to always kill the rats that she summons. Those rats are pretty powerful, they inflict wounds quickly, so when they appear, ignore the mother and kill them first, otherwise they'll knock out your entire party in no time. Just order everyone to attack the same rat, kill it, then focus on the next one. It worked for me. Of course, you need some luck, because the tide can turn in a matter of one round, if you suddenly get three wounds from one bite...

I think you should have at least two warrior-types in the party, since my magic users were knocked out pretty early during every try.

Oh, and more thing: summon a creature if you can. I had someone summon a boar, and it helped a lot during the first rounds of the battle, because almost all the rats focused on the boar.

I thought that this quest was pretty cool - the boss was a real challenge! It was fun to come back to that cave at differents points in the game and try to beat the rat mother (and to discover that I'm *still* too weak, heh). I don't know if the difficulty of it was unintentional, but I still liked it. :)


Edit: A bit off topic but: *if* you already did the Dranor quest in there, then the location will be closed after you beat the Mother Rat. So, before you leave...

be sure to visit Dranor's cell again. ;)

[Corwin]

Thanks, I restored an earlier save game. Think I'll return in a few levels. I just hope ALL the rats I killed on my way down there haven't respawned!!

[Gorath]

I killed her at level 8, with my standard party with only 1 tank. AFAIR the dwarf was sent to mother Ratczinsky, to keep her busy. The others were concentrating their fire on one rat as far as possible. Combat speed was set to minimum, I entered every single move by hand.

It took me 2 or 3 tries, 30 minutes each. When one of your characters gets knocked out you can reload. It's really hard to say when you have to heal when healing takes more than one round. ;)

[Arhu]

Combat speed was set to minimum, I entered every single move by hand.
You can change the combat speed? :o I made very frequent use of the pause button ...

Ah, and yeah, if the fight has been going well for a while, you can save the game, even in combat. Very useful for longer encounters.

[Krzychu]

I just hope ALL the rats I killed on my way down there haven't respawned!!

Don't worry, they do not respawn. Err, at least they shouldn't.

[Arhu]

No, they don't respawn. And you can even ask the dwarf letting you in to take you down to the fourth level, no need to go all the way there by yourself again.

[Gragnak]

I managed to kill her at level 9 I think. Like Arhu said, you should engage her only after she's alone - enter the chamber, and then try to lure the other rats to you and get rid of them. After that you can save in a different slot, and cast all the buffing spells you want. One thing I learned was to always kill the rats that she summons. Those rats are pretty powerful, they inflict wounds quickly, so when they appear, ignore the mother and kill them first, otherwise they'll knock out your entire party in no time. Just order everyone to attack the same rat, kill it, then focus on the next one. It worked for me. Of course, you need some luck, because the tide can turn in a matter of one round, if you suddenly get three wounds from one bite...

I think you should have at least two warrior-types in the party, since my magic users were knocked out pretty early during every try.

Oh, and more thing: summon a creature if you can. I had someone summon a boar, and it helped a lot during the first rounds of the battle, because almost all the rats focused on the boar.

I thought that this quest was pretty cool - the boss was a real challenge! It was fun to come back to that cave at differents points in the game and try to beat the rat mother (and to discover that I'm *still* too weak, heh). I don't know if the difficulty of it was unintentional, but I still liked it. :)


Edit: A bit off topic but: *if* you already did the Dranor quest in there, then the location will be closed after you beat the Mother Rat. So, before you leave...

be sure to visit Dranor's cell again. ;)

Azz!
I finished the Rat Mother quest yesterday and left the cellar.
What hav I missed not visiting Dranor cell again? Is it something important?

[Alrik Fassbauer]

What hav I missed not visiting Dranor cell again? Is it something important?

No, but a good joke ! ;)

[Gragnak]

Ah! You!
You.......
Eh eh eh.
Good trap!

[Grandor Dragon]

Can anyone spoil me here? I never finished the quest (left and forgot about it). Is there a special reward or event waiting for you after you kill the boss?

[Gragnak]

Can anyone spoil me here? I never finished the quest (left and forgot about it). Is there a special reward or event waiting for you after you kill the boss?

Ok.
The Rat Mother has a good Vitality ring (+10 VI).

[redman5427]

A question possible bugI have a friend who is playing a battle mage and after entering the cave by the rats her magic abilities are all grayed out and she cannot cast spells. Is this part of the game or a bug does anyone know?

[Curunír]

A question possible bugI have a friend who is playing a battle mage and after entering the cave by the rats her magic abilities are all grayed out and she cannot cast spells. Is this part of the game or a bug does anyone know?

She probably equipped a metal armour piece. Metal armour disables magic.

[redman5427]

found it! feel like a dunce for not knowing, she had equiped iron armor,haha this game is great

[txa1265]

Good to see that i am not the only one having problem... :)

Hehe ... I have learned after a crushing defeat earlier to save early & often ... just in case I wander into something over my head again.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

She probably equipped a metal armour piece. Metal armour disables magic.

Sooooo many people not knowing the TDE rule set thought it was a bug ( = many posts in the official forums. In fact, this is among the top 10 of all questions) ... But instead, it's in the rule set, in fact.

I just hope that gamers out there will not "bad-mouth" this as a "real bug".

[crpgnut]

I'm having a bad feeling here. Is Mother Rat at the bottom of the brewery? If so, I'm only level 4 and I'm standing outside what I think might be the final room. Do I have a prayer? I barely survive the groups of 8 black wolf rats that come pouring out on this level. Normally the dwarf is left standing long after the others have fainted. The dwarf is level 5 and so is the Charlatan but she goes down faster than Pamela Lee :D

[Gorath]

Time to save in a different slot ...

[wolfing]

I'm having a bad feeling here. Is Mother Rat at the bottom of the brewery? If so, I'm only level 4 and I'm standing outside what I think might be the final room. Do I have a prayer? I barely survive the groups of 8 black wolf rats that come pouring out on this level. Normally the dwarf is left standing long after the others have fainted. The dwarf is level 5 and so is the Charlatan but she goes down faster than Pamela Lee :D

Been there, done that. Have a non-quicksave *outside* the room (just in case you decide to quicksave inside). Try the battle a few times with different strategies (and fail of course), then go back to the save outside and just go to the moors and come back later :)

[crpgnut]

@Wolfing-I'm going to adopt your strategy, except I'm sure I'll try and lose all night :D I can't stand to lose a fight. I'm taking it that the moors is where the good old wizard wants me to go. I love this game! I'm really tired of rats though. I hope we switch monsters soon.

My first battle will be to try and send the dwarf in alone. He has the roundhouse skill and it works well only if you're surrounded. My plan is to have the Amazon and my Ranger fire bows and have the Charlatan fry them with Ignifaxus. Once the dwarf gets knocked unconscious, I'll try to send the Amazon in and repeat. I'm sure it will fail, but Forgrimm has good armor and he should kill several rats before going down. Is the battle over if you defeat mother? If so, I could have all the ranged fighters attack her instead of helping Forgrimm.

[Arhu]

Little nut, you have no idea what you are running into. NO IDEA!

[wolfing]

@Wolfing-I'm going to adopt your strategy, except I'm sure I'll try and lose all night :D I can't stand to lose a fight. I'm taking it that the moors is where the good old wizard wants me to go. I love this game! I'm really tired of rats though. I hope we switch monsters soon.

My first battle will be to try and send the dwarf in alone. He has the roundhouse skill and it works well only if you're surrounded. My plan is to have the Amazon and my Ranger fire bows and have the Charlatan fry them with Ignifaxus. Once the dwarf gets knocked unconscious, I'll try to send the Amazon in and repeat. I'm sure it will fail, but Forgrimm has good armor and he should kill several rats before going down. Is the battle over if you defeat mother? If so, I could have all the ranged fighters attack her instead of helping Forgrimm.
*Wolfing takes a seat, opens his popcorn bag and prepares to watch the naked roman gladiator against the lion* (if only they sold popcorn at the coliseum)

[Corwin]

You have Roundhouse for the dwarf? How did you get it? I haven't worked that part out yet. The manual was no help.

[wolfing]

You have Roundhouse for the dwarf? How did you get it? I haven't worked that part out yet. The manual was no help.

one of the guards at the barracks at the town square trains combat techniques, I think that one has it.
And I just beat that mother f.... RAT! at level 6, took me like 8 attempts, although at the 2nd attempt I could have had it if not for one stupid mistake I made. Sheesh!

[crpgnut]

I took her at 5, but I used a lot of traps to do it. I'd lay three traps, have Forgrimm fight her til he got wounded bad, then I'd have Rulana take his place while my Charlatan healed him. While that was going on I'd lay three more traps. It ended up with my main character the Ranger being the only one left alive after killing her. Unfortunately, I got killed by her offspring so I never got to see if there was a reward. Now that I know that I could win at level 5, I gave up and went to the next place but the stink monsters aren't exactly a pushover either. Their attack that makes you lose control of the AI makes them devastating. I'll be loading everyone with range weapons and see how that goes. They seem slow. I was massively disappointed in the xp awards for fighting the black wolf rats. 1 lousy xp for each kill was too low. The black ones are tough because of the poisoning and wounding. Still, a slow leveling game isn't bad. If you become all powerful, the game gets tedious. I think I'm getting 1 xp for the stinkers too and I'm only level 5. I'm hoping that the game drops the hordes and hordes of creatures that give 1 xp. I'd much rather fight 5 creatures that gave 10 each, than 50 that give 1. I don't need to fight the same battle 15 times, like you end up doing with black wolf rats.

[Damian Mahadevan]

I needed to buy that nice two hander in the harbour near the storebrannts( i think it was their merchant) to kill the rat, 75 ducats i believe. And use mighty blow. When you fight the mother rat's summons leave one, she wont summon more if she still has one.

[Grandor Dragon]

Still, a slow leveling game isn't bad. If you become all powerful, the game gets tedious.

This is something Drakensang just gets right. There will easier fights, but also challenges all throughout the game.

[txa1265]

This is something Drakensang just gets right. There will easier fights, but also challenges all throughout the game.

Agreed - when I saw the 500 point levels I was concerned it would be too quick, sort of like I felt in KotOR.

[wolfing]

I needed to buy that nice two hander in the harbour near the storebrannts( i think it was their merchant) to kill the rat, 75 ducats i believe. And use mighty blow. When you fight the mother rat's summons leave one, she wont summon more if she still has one.

I don't remember that. I tried it but surely enough, she summoned more. In fact it seems she summons a new wave at 75%, 50% and 25% health

[Damian Mahadevan]

I don't remember that. I tried it but surely enough, she summoned more. In fact it seems she summons a new wave at 75%, 50% and 25% health

It didnt happen to me. I didnt patch ti though, maybe that why. Maybe killing mother rat would be easier if you used like 3 bear traps and try to wound her to death.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Wounding her definitively helps. Also slowing her down, blinding her ... But wounds cause the most drastic effect - against all enemies where this is effective.

Make sure you'll keep all weapons that cause wounds because of that !

[crpgnut]

I hadn't found a wounding weapon when I met her. I used the bear traps, ignifaxis, and a couple of fire traps to kill her at level 5. Unfortunately, her offspring killed me and I still don't know what kind of reward you get for killing her. My girl did a little dance with her weapon when Mother died and one of the black wolf rats bit her butt and killed her. She was the last one alive :( One thing that seems a little off with Drakensang, is that you'll kill very tough creatures and get 1 xp. Then you'll help a little lady across the street and get 30 xp. Also, you'll have a long drawn out quest and the reward is two farthings, which you can find in almost any barrel.

I thought the quest that starts at Helsinde temple had the perfect level of combat for its size. The rat dungeon was a little overboard. It's been the worst designed levels of the game so far. I hope that the reward was decent. I decided to skip it, rather than try to win at level 5. It took me 15 tries, to almost win :) I also burned 50 Ducats in buying equipment to combat Mother rat. I just restored a save game before I went down against her and went to the temple.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Come back at a later level, then.

The rat dungeon is - as I mentioned earlier - a kind of "parody/joke gone wrong", as far as I know.

But it also teaches us to retreat when a level of difficulty is too high. It's a hard lesson, and it seldom appears in games (Gothic, for example).

[txa1265]

I love that dungeon, because it gets harder as you go, and then at the end it is a tough challenge. When I got there I was ready, but I did keep busy healing up my party.

[Sabek]

I kept getting beat repeatedly as well until after the blood mountains and when I found the most unbalanced spell.

The petrification spell.
I would fight until she roared. Turn her to stone to park her. Have everyone kill the adds. Heal everyone and refresh any buffs. And then repeat the process every 25%

[elkston]

I'm glad I came to this thread because it beat some sense into me. I am resigned to the fact that I cannot beat Miss Rat with my level 4-5 party. Fortunately, I am a voracious saver, so I was able to restore right before I went into her lair.

Now I understand why they had that other dwarf shadow you along the way, offering supplies and a quick route back. They really weren't kidding about the difficulty. Its a bit surprising actually, because you figure this is just one easy sidequest to take of before you tackle the "big stuff". While I did make it to the final battle, I often had trouble along the way with the large groups of Black Rats surrounding my guys. My armor, HP, and endurance simply ran out many times before I got fortunate enough to land the right sequence of lucky blows.

Now I think I'll check out the trading war at the docks and help out below the temple before I even attempt coming back here. Not to mention having plenty of *pronto healing* potions as well as special moves I can use to attack GROUPS of bad guys.

Oh, and now I see why the Endurance special talents are important too!

[Corwin]

I just beat her with a level 7-8 party after about 6 attempts. I drew out the first lot of rats in there with her before the place was sealed which meant I could get a head start on her before she called the next round. That helped at the end. I had 2 left standing!! :)

[Krokie]

On the official forums you have a similar thread.

Some people say to max out your willpower to prevent wounds as those
are a big deal of the damage the rats deal out.
With willpower maxed out people wrote that they were able to kill her with
a level 3-4 party.

Hopes this help, I still have to do that encounter.

The dungeon under the temple is a nice spot to prepare for that battle, Amoebs have 70hp (and sometimes come in packs of 2) and deeper in that dungeon they have 100hp. At the deepest section there even is a boss spider :)

[Sergius64]

Yeah I was able to defeat her with a level 4 party and spellweaver as main character after a couple of tries.

Couple of tips:

Make sure Amazon's and Dwarf's willpower is high, wounds hurt your stats a lot and you go down with 5 wounds, no matter what your hp is at. Make sure they both have very good armor too. Make sure their parry is high and they are using shields. Make sure either your main character or 3rd character has high Cure Wounds skill and plenty of bandages.

At first I made my main character stay back and sent in amazon, dwarf, charlatan and summoned animal. Had the amazon tank the big rat while the other guys picked off little rats 1 by 1. If any of the characters picked up a wound I would immediatly make my main character heal them, or use Cure Wounds if it was more then 1 wound. Be especially swift on the Amazon, since the big rat is the most likely to inflict them. I lost the Amazon couple of runs because the rat would suddenly spike several wounds on her over 2-3 rounds. If the summoned animal went down, I would re-summon with main character. Once all of the little rats are down I would concentrate on the big rat with everyone except for the main character, whom I would move back to the original position. Once the big rat summoned more guards, I would have dwarf and gladys peel off and engage them. The's a lot of "luck" involved here depending on how quickly your characters pick up wounds.

If you lose any of the characters and the rat isn't on its last legs, just restore a save and try from the beginning.

Oh yeah, I heard another tip recently: If you use 'Meek you Be' spell on one of the little rats, the big one won't be respawning any more of them.

[Corwin]

Wish I'd thought to try that spell on the rats, I completely forgot about it!!

[Dasale]

I also did it with level 6 team, after Moorbridge, so not an exploit but still tough. I got the feeling that the important points was mainly linked to:

For Forgrimm and Rhulanna:

Wisdom to 15 for Forgrimm and Rhulanna (lower a lot the wounds level)
Treat wound 13 and more than 20 heal item for Forgrimm and Rhulann (important for heal wounds or more heal than only from 2 spells healers, but clearly even more here would be better).
Defensive Combat 1 (both did all fight in this mode and never get out of endurance and even could use some Mighty Blow on wild rats but never on mother).


For Spellweaver PC and Gladys:

Wisdom to 6 (not enough points for more).
Balm of Healig maxed (With characters level 6 provide a good amount of heal and can heal wounds level 2).
Fatness of Body maxed (duration 300s and improves a lot resistance against attacks)


Against mother:

No special attacks, I wonder if I ever see one succeed.
When a fighter was wounded, immediate spell healing.
When a fighter was too much wounded, take care the other fighter attack mother and move out the wounded fighter so he didn't get attacked by mother and could heal him more safely.
When possible, Aimed shot from my spellweaver.
No spell spend on mother, keep mana for healing, curing poison, few summon, some Fandango Fireflies.


Against wild rats:

At beginning of the fight, before starting it, two casters cast Fatness of Body, that improve a lot their resistance against the wild rats. And I bet they died both during last summon of wild rats because I forget renew the effect or couldn't because of lack of mana.
For first pack, no summon and take care to be close to entrance to not attract mother yet.
When new pack come, stop attack mother but take care mother continue attack the right fighter.
When new pack come, two priority, destroy it asap and more important not have all of them attack only one character. For that when mother summon, take care to see at least two come from far and make each fighter attack one.
Take a lot of care to heal the two casters during a weave of wild rats and until it get fully destroyed.
Take care to have the two casters not close to mother so it didn't attack them when both fighters stop attack mother.


Despite characters level 6 and so many tactics at last weave of wild rats the two casters died and I had to end the fight with the two fighters against 2 wild rats and mother.

At some point one fighter was close to death then moving him out make mother attack the other and after few healing the low health level fighter (but no more wounded) could come help finish the fight.

My feeling is that using Gwendala would have been a better choice than Gladys.

Also I tried few time in previous attempts to use Meek you Be on wild rats but never make it work, perhaps I didn't tried enough.

And Lightning Find You seems quite useless against mother.

For last attempt I also make Gladys learn Pulmbumarm... but forgot use it!

Also one dwarf gives you the advice to use potions but I didn't tried that at all, sure it could help if you can make or buy some.

[Sabek]

Fatness of Body maxed (duration 300s and improves a lot resistance against attacks)


My fatness of body is maxed. Too many hours playing games.

[elkston]

Okay, went back after I finished the Marsh/Undead quests with a level 6 party.

After 2 tries, I finally brought her down. I took much of the accumulated advice in this thread.

My tanks Rhulanna and Fogrimm had very high willpowers (12 and 15 respecitvely) and also imbibed Elixirs of Courage made by my Archer/Alchemist main char. Drainor wasn't nearly as sturdy, but provided an extra blade and helped keep the little rats away from my main guy. All three were placed into defensive fighting mode level 1. Their job was to fight small rat waves and then concentrate on the Mother rat once they went down.

My archer stood back untouched and concentrated exclusively on Mother Ratzinsy!

The key for winning was a devastating called shot from my Archer (who has 15 in bows) using the Marksman talent with one those killer arrows you get from the Treasure Quest in the Marsh. It must have taken off a TON of HP because the Mother Rat was only slightly over half in health, then suddenly she was gone! I was a bit surprised myself, but I'll take the win! I was so happy to be done with this thing I neglected to inspect the console to see the exact details of the hit.

As expected, Dranor went down but everyone else was left standing with NO WOUNDS!

[stopgap]

guys I can top everyone in the thread. I fought my way down into that dungeon at only lvl 4. I then proceeded to accidentally quick-save due to excitement after I was trapped by the crystals. This did not go well. the charlatan had her origonal crap dress and didn't survive so well. (i had to reload due to crap gear). I burned most of my money on good gear, cause i thought I can do this. I then spent at least 5 hours on this fight. I won. It took innumerable retries but i won. I am a true man. well in a nerdy stupid stubborn way. I certainly understand why people didn't beat her early. I found that if I lost even on party member it was over.

[Gorath]

Level 4? You have my respect, sir!

Welcome to our forum! :)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Quite an accomplishment with such a low level !

[Cm]

O_O:salute::bow::bow: You have my vote for King of the Rat killers! ;)

[Thrasher]

I did it at level 4, too! Well except for Rhulana who was level 5, but Forgrimm did most of the heavy hitting.

I did have to resort to multiple attempts, with saves in between the wave of rats....