The Wheel of Time

[Arma]

I'm always like that with long series - I started the Wheel of Time at book 3, then 2, then read the rest 4-11 (and now I want to strangle the author).

[Corwin]

Why do you want to strangle him?

[Arma]

Lot's of reasons, but that merits a whole new topic ... Let's say that after WoT Book 11 I still have the same urges, as Jordan plans to prolong this series indefinately. You may have heard that in Knife of Dreams stuff actually does happen (as opposed to the last 5 books), however, in my opinion it is stuff that never should have taken place in the first place.

[Corwin]

:) It would be fun to write a plot summary of the first 10 books and see if you got ONE decent sized book from it!! :)

[Arma]

There are. If I find them, I'd start a new topic of Isam's (I hope I got the name right) hilarious WoT summaries.

On another note, corwin, you might split the last few posts as a WoT topic ...

[Corwin]

I'm not the Mod of this forum, Jaz is!!

[Jaz]

*grumble* ...I split the thread as desired.

[Arma]

To sum up, I hate how in the latest books there is absolutely no stuff happening. They seem like an endless tea sipping, dress making, going places to do pointless stuff and so on. Knife of Dreams is no exlusion to the rule (spoilers ahead) - While Perrin-Faile-Shaido storylines comes to an end, it is a thing that had to end at least 2 books ago. Mat's stroyline also comes to fruitition of a sort, but that is no excuse for him doing nothing in the last 5 books. Elayne's succesion of Andor still drags on as is the siege of the Tower :sigh: /end of Spoilers

And there is still no news on who killed Asmo, one of the few things that keep people like me reading on.

[Corwin]

And what has happened to Morgase?

[Arma]

corwin, if you so much want to get spoiled - she survived, I believe. Morgase is now just one of those million of side characters that I don't care of ...

[Corwin]

I know she survived, but she hasn't appeared in the last 4-5 books!! She's one of the mysteries!! I actually think book 4 was the worst for nothing happening!!

[Arma]

corwin, how far are you into the series? When Rahvin was killed by Rand in Book 5 (The Fires of Heaven) Morgase was fleeing the castle and went to Amadicia into Pedron Nial's hands (he was the Lord Commander or whatever the title of the Children of the Light). After that, when the Seanchan invaded Amadicia from Tanchico, Morgase, Tallanvor, Lily and some other people I can't bring up their names even, ran into Perrin and Faile (however they used up different names) and were captured along by the Seanchan. In shord, Morgase is following right in the tracks of her foolish daugher and Egwene of being captured in foolish ways by everyone that is currently available.

[Maylander]

I wouldn't say "indefinetly", as book 12 is the final book. Everything will be ended then.

Also, book 11 is, in my opinion, one of the best so far. Lots of fighting, lots of stuff happening, several story lines finally coming to an end. Things start to shape up really. I can smell the final battle on the horizon now, and with (EXTREME SPOILER ALERT) Moiraine coming back soon it'll all be good..

[Lucky Day]

having just ended my second run as host and M'Hael for WoT: the Third Age for NWN I've become relatively knowledgeable on this subject I think.

Let me sum this response that..we are assuming book 12 will even be finished considering RJ's health.

There are now so many plot threads now that can't be resolved in a single book (at his pace) that he's already talking of spin off novels and has now said they will be about Mat and Tuon. I think we can expect very little on finishing the two prequels. Fans don't seem too interested in those right now and neither does he. In fact, it seems like he just wants to start Memory of Light at this point.

But keep this in mind: the series was supposed to finish in 6 books originally but it was books 8-11 that hit the New York Times bestseller list at No 1.

[Corwin]

Arma, I've finished 10 books and will begin book 11 as soon as I have some time to read it. Two things called NWN2 and G3 are getting in the way!! :)

[Arma]

Actually, the very first version of Bobby used to be that the series would be 3 books longs. See the irony?

Exactly what stuff happens in KoD? Pretty much nothing important. Or interesting. Even something that someone cares about. Nobody cares about the other two prequel novels, but he'll write them anyway, probably after he completes Memory of Light.

[Corwin]

OK, What is Memory of Light?

[Arma]

Working title of Book 12

[Maylander]

Well, the other prequel he wrote outside of the series, New Spring, was quite good, so I wouldn't mind more books like that if they focus on the right people(Lan is always a winner). The relationship between Tuon and Mat is not something I'd want to read a whole book about though, as I find the parts with them fairly boring already.

Anything containing Egwene and that subplot or Tuon and that subplot is uninteresting to me, the rest is great. Unfortunately, book 10 was all about those two subplots, so it was the worst book so far in my opinion. Luckily he's not focusing on them anymore though, and book 11 really brought the series back on track.

[Arma]

Egwene and the whole White Tower business with the Rebels and so on, is one of the few things that still spark some minor interesting. Egwene is only mildly irritating compared to other titans in the seim vein as Elayne and the whole cast of Perrin's subplot. I really hate the way the latter books turned out for Perrin and Faile, as they were probably my fav characters in The Dragon Reborn (first WoT book I read).

[Maylander]

I can't stand Egwene, always jumping to conclusions, "the big explosion must be the some super weapon of the dark one!".. no you dimwit, it was Rand. How come noone actually told Egwene about that anyway? I mean, Nynaeve was there, and they see each other in the dream world all the time.

Certain aspects, like lack of communication, annoys me. They have teleport and the dream world to keep each other updated, yet they hardly ever do. Information is vital in a war! Then again, this is not unique to WOT - it all started with Lord of the Rings, and Mr. Gan D. Alf using a fragment of his power instead of simply completing the book in about 30 seconds by flying Frodo into Mt. Doom on one of those big birds straight from the Shire. The hardcore fans would definetly try to come up with some reason like "maybe the birds wouldn't take the risk" or "maybe Gandalf felt this was something Frodo had to do on his own" and so on, but the fact is, when the entire world is at stake you are willing to give a try at least.

I should probably stop reading for some time, I get too easily annoyd by such facts.

[Lucky Day]

I had read from his blog that he planned only 6 books. Either way I don't know what he was thinking when RJ admitted that. Write now he's so sick he hardly even writes his own blog.

New Spring is so far the only prequel based on on one of his short stories. The other two shorts stories was LTT encounter with Ishmael and and that Raven thingy one. Recently Torr books split the first one into two novels.

The misinformation that goes on with Daes Damar is one of the things I really like. They always seem to be second guessing each other and getting it wrong. Plans within Plans to quote Dune. If they were more direct and didn't jostle with each for position so much things wouldn't get so complicated or even dangerous.

Eg has turned into one of the few bright spots in the story. And where she, Nynaeve and Morgain seem cookie cutter in the first book as a character she's become toned down.

Really RJ has only two types of female characters Faile and Min on one side and then all the rest. Pretty annoying. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Thom, Rahvin, Taim, Padan Fain, etc. are not characters that could be mistaken for each other

[Arma]

Actually, I believe it is widely known that in the very start of the series, Bobby had planned 3 books only, which grew to six, then 12, then 12 + 3 prequels, to the current situation of 12 main, 1 prequel, 2 more planned but on hiatus now and at least one after-quel Out of several possibly. Which is ridiculous by any means, unless he outsources writing to those to someone (and hopefully not Hariet). Not the mention the entirely new series he is planning, that he has planned at this stage at 6 books. If things turn out the WoT way, they will probably end up being at least 24, that is if Bobby ever finishes writing WoT books. It is clear that either he sold his soul out to the devil for an eternity in his personal hell of writing WoT books, or Hariet did :)

Maylander, I also can't stand Egwene. However, as noted, she is an acceptable female character, compared to others, and way better than most most male characters. The biggest irritating thing about her is her ridiculous affair with I forgot his name, but he was Elayne's brother. Also, while she is a major character in her own storyline, the other cast of it is what makes it still interesting. And it is rather not a straighforward plot, but a combination of half a dozen, including "The Who is Messaana in the Tower exactly" (my bet it she is Sylviana, Elaida's Mistress of Novices). Not to mention that Alviarin is one of the better Darkfriends in the series that has actually done meaningful stuff. And all of the subplots tie together smoothly, unlike in the other storylines (KoD minor spoiler for example, Elayne rooting out the last of Liandrin's 13 and unmasking the killer of Adeleas and Ispan, end of spoiler). In a way, I can justify that we have not a resolution of the whole thing, unlike the Mat and Tuon, Perring and Faile, and Elayne's Andoran Succession which seem to go on like forever when at most these 3 combined should have occupied no more than half a book instead of 5 tomes.

[ToddMcF2002]

I couldnt make it past book 4. I loved the writing and the characters but I got so frustrated with the lack of forward progress I dropped the series. How do you guys get through these books? Don't they drive you totally insane?

[dteowner]

Mat is about the only character I still like. I enjoy the books a good bit, even with the lack of activity, but the character flaws of most of the cast have been emphasized to the point where they don't garner much sympathy anymore.

[Maylander]

My favourite character is Lan, hands down. He softened up a bit when falling in love with Nynaeve, but not enough to make any real difference. I would really like to read more about his current travels in the Borderlands..

[Lucky Day]

book 5 is worth reading. Stop then. Most people I know that stopped reading did at book 7. Probably the worst until he wrote 10. Books 2 and 3 are really focus but but Book 1 is the a terrible and long introduction.

Book6 turns out to be the most complicated of all the books. It has the most levels. But it reminds me of God Emperor of Dune. Its super deep but its not fun to read. In the end he rushed it to a nonsensical finish that doesn't look like one he was planning at all. Deadlines stopped him and forced it to the publisher and it looks like he decided to keep a character rather than kill her off. That was my impression.

Gawan. This forced love affair between him and Egwene is completely contrived and not very believable. It reads like a bad comic book.

However, the two things I like about him is how he's behind the revolt of the Younglings against the warders and the fact that he's the only one of the "good guys" that despises Rand and puts the blame squarely on him. His brother Galad is very interesting. The man nearly had his own half-brother(Rand) killed.

What gets me through it at this point is waiting for it to end. And as far as fantasy writing that is.

[Maylander]

You mean Gawyn. :)

[Corwin]

Picky, Picky, Picky people!! :)

[Arma]

Gawyn, who acts the idiot more than his beloved Egwene? Rising up agains Suan, but then helping her escape? Or following "Rumours are always true" rule? I'd like to see him dead and suffering by the end of the series.

[Maylander]

Yep, I respect Galad, but Gawyn is a complete twat who thinks he's "all that". I'd love to see him take on Lan..

[Lucky Day]

... Rising up agains Suan, but then helping her escape?...

Right exactly. That made absolutely no sense. The only thing I can think of his motivation was he was smitten by Min or maybe felt guilty or thinks Elaida is not all that. Elaida did try to have him killed but that was much later. Or was that Alviaran. Bloody books are so long you can't keep track.

As for Galad it makes no sense that suddenly he would be for the Tower as well as the rest of his WC's. Personally, I think just being Rand's brother a bit of ta'veran has rubbed off on him. Jim Rigney (aka RJ) has mentioned there are other ta'varen but the Guide only says other than Artur Hawkwing is Mabriam en Shereed, the Aes Sedai who founded the White Tower.