Dragon Age - Violence Trailer

[Dhruin]

In a bizarre piece of marketing, BioWare has released a new Dragon Age trailer replete with buckets of blood and a dash of alien sex (well, she looks alien with that neck) all set to Marilyn Manson. VoodooExtreme has the choice of hi- and lo-res (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/46928/Dragon-Age-Origins-Trailer) or you can just go to Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SuJ5T9sfAA). Dark and gritty.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=11972)

[Badesumofu]

Is this real? Did Bioware really make that trailer? I don't know what to say... bizzare indeed :S

I think I understand a bit better now. This trailer is generating massive numbers of comments all over the internets. It's all about mind-share.

[Vistaer]

Looks like they're trying to grab the attention of people who play ultra-violent games like Gears of War. Doubt many of those such people would like the gameplay, but a decent little video. After reading the book, I get more and more worried one of my favorite characters Loghain (the guy who calls out the grey wardens in the begining of the video) will end up being an antagonist.

[danutz_plusplus]

Wow, looks quite good. And there's plenty of interesting ingame cinematics, aside from just having characters talk. I like it. It might seem mindless, but I like it. And Simon Templeman is awesome as always.

[DArtagnan]

They're not exactly overestimating their audience, but then I sort of suspected as much :)

[danutz_plusplus]

They're not exactly overestimating their audience, but then I sort of suspected as much :)

It's a simple marketing move and they're going for shock-value. There might be a bit too much blood and gore, though. Or at least too much too fast. They could've given it a different tempo and it might have been more atmospheric. Imo anyways.

[JonNik]

I almost feel compelled to Post "LOL" ... almost...
Anyway this game has come a long way from the initial hype of a "low magic, mature
setting" (some were expecting something along the lines of what G.R Martin is doing)
and my interest is dropping accordingly (its now in the maybe buy when it hits the
bargain bin point). Oh well.

[chamr]

Mmmm-k. :|

That was silly. I can only imagine the meeting where they decided on this odd little piece of PR...

[DArtagnan]

It's a simple marketing move and they're going for shock-value. There might be a bit too much blood and gore, though. Or at least too much too fast. They could've given it a different tempo and it might have been more atmospheric. Imo anyways.

Yeah, I know it's a marketing move and it's pretty obvious what they think about their primary audience.

Pretty hard to deny after seeing that trailer.

Nothing but blood and violence, with a touch of sex, whilst "This is the new shit" is being repeated loudly over and over.

Yeah, that's the way to etablish the game as mature.

Can't wait until one of our resident Bioware dudes explains how we've got it all wrong, and that this is necessary for the mass market. They certainly seem to have most of you convinced the game will be a classic before it's even out.

[Prime Junta]

Well, at least we know where the blood spatters on the logo came from. And it looks like they took a page from CDP's marketing book and their video with Vader.

Strangely, I'm starting to like it. One of the things that's been irritating me about BioWare lately is that they seem to want to please everyone and not offend anyone. This stuff goes some way to dispel that notion -- although I still find this Dark! and Gritty! thing... endearing.

[Thoth]

So basically, they know their game is shit so they're resorting to this tactic... I suppose we should at least be happy they didn't throw in gigantic tits in the mix, but still it's sad... I mean, OH MY GAWD DID U SEE DAT GIRL GET IMPALED EXTREME!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at the armor. Seen that anywhere before? Yup, same thing that "graces" every other fantasy game. Same boring thing. See the green grass? Every fantasy game has to take place at the same season. I'm sure the moon will look strangely similar to our own. Wouldn't want to get creative here now would we! See the common looking castles? See the generic enemies?

And Marilyn Manson... a perfect spokesperson for something so irrelevant and uninteresting. Dark and Gritty indeed.

[Badesumofu]

Yeah, I know it's a marketing move and it's pretty obvious what they think about their primary audience.

Pretty hard to deny after seeing that trailer.

It's one trailer, and it's hardly representitive of the approach to marketing in general. This trailer is certainly designed to appeal to a certain demographic, but it's not their primary one. David Gaider made a couple of posts about it, making it pretty clear that they are (with this trailer) just trying to reah an audiene that might not otherwise take a first look at the game.

[stefan9]

I liked the trailer. It showed two aspects of the game and did it pretty well. Sure as a rpg gamer should be worried if this was the only part of the game they had shown or written about but it isn't. We have seen lots of great rpg elements in the other videos. I am highly optimistic this game will deliver.

[Badesumofu]

Stefan9, I think that is a very reasonable position. I watched some other DA videos on you tube today, and came away very encouraged. Some of the combat videos looked really good, and the role playing elements are clearly very prominent.

[Rizzla]

It looks like Dragon Age is the computer game equivalent of Torchwood, a mature and adult science fiction series as interpreted by a prepubescent child.

[Jazzotron]

If that content is predominant, then it will assuredly be banned in my backward country (Australia, that is).

[baron]

this is gonna be the most stereotyped nonsense ever.
________
HEMP (http://marijuanahemp.com)

[wolfing]

I guess DA is now so big that, no matter what they show, will be both applauded and sneered at. Not enough blood, too much blood, it's too dark, it's too light, it looks boring, it looks too action oriented...
I just wish they released the damn game tomorrow so each person can draw his/her own conclusion by actually playing the game instead of looking at a new logo or video.

[ToddMcF2002]

Who cares about cutscenes. Is there blood ingame?

[turian]

whoa!
looks lika a trailer for some brainless action movie.

thats totaly unfair to all the people out there.
they will think now DA is some badass buttonmashing action game.

[Kostaz]

Reminds me of the LotR movies,I like it(except that love part).
I guess I'm a brainless teen....

[crpgnut]

This is the first trailer for Dragon Age that I've looked at. To me, graphic blood isn't mature, it's for the kiddies. Teen-age boys mostly. You wanna make an adult game? Put in graphic sex, instead of graphic violence. Everyone has done graphic violence, so EA's game doesn't stand out. The Witcher put in some really tame sex, so up the ante in that direction. As an adult male, I'd rather watch a nice sex scene than cut off heads and watch blood spurt. Of course, what I'd really rather do is PLAY a good game with exploration, stat/skill/attribute-manipulation, magic, etc. Would that be too much to ask for in a crpg?

[Alrik Fassbauer]

At least now I know which kind of audience they do NOT want.

Me.

If they're REALLY brilliant, then they'll show as the next trailer considting of nothing but the direct opposite.

THEN they would get my attention.

Because it would show to me that they're not just fishing for ... an audience.

[Konjad]

Why Bioware or Bethesda still exist while Troika is dead? :| It makes me sad :(

[booboo]

Hm. I have no problem with blood and gore, but this is just OTT. It's like every creature has an internal ketchup reservoir that pops whenever they're hit! It looks...stupid. I think that if Mr Gaider is trying to 'appeal to another market that might not even consider this game otherwise' - i.e. gore-fest action junkies - then he's misleading them and he should be ashamed. I assume they won't like an RPG, regardless of how much violence it has... I know many such people, who simply don't like thinking about choices, reading dialogue etc. They want to destroy stuff. Unless DA is in fact NOT an RPG, in which case he's misleading us. So which is it? I hope thye're not planning to use that music in the game...I tolerate that crap in FPS's, but after the great atmospheric/period/appropriate music in titles like Icewind Dale, Baldur's agtre etc, that woud be unimaginably hideous.

[DeepO]

Some people here are obviously not tough enough to handle a Bioware game.

[woges]

Priestly has already said Manson's music won't be in the game.

Bioware treating objects like women man.

[Prime Junta]

This is the first trailer for Dragon Age that I've looked at. To me, graphic blood isn't mature, it's for the kiddies.

But it *is* Dark! not to mention Gritty! no?

Teen-age boys mostly. You wanna make an adult game? Put in graphic sex, instead of graphic violence. Everyone has done graphic violence, so EA's game doesn't stand out. The Witcher put in some really tame sex, so up the ante in that direction. As an adult male, I'd rather watch a nice sex scene than cut off heads and watch blood spurt. Of course, what I'd really rather do is PLAY a good game with exploration, stat/skill/attribute-manipulation, magic, etc. Would that be too much to ask for in a crpg?

What I'd really *really* want to play is a good game with exploration, stat/skill/attribute manipulation, magic, copious use of social skills, choices with consequences, an exciting narrative, *and* graphic sex and violence (involving a codependent elf girlfriend with blue skin and/or tentacles for hair). I'm willing to cede Marilyn Manson, unless he plays the codependent elf girlfriend, in which case I definitely want him in. What are the odds, d'you reckon?

[Konjad]

RPG? Tentacles? Little elven girl? Choices and consequences?

Damn! That would be awsome!!!



Mr Gaider is trying to 'appeal to another market that might not even consider this game otherwise' - i.e. gore-fest action junkies - then he's misleading them and he should be ashamed. I assume they won't like an RPG, regardless of how much violence it has... I know many such people, who simply don't like thinking about choices, reading dialogue etc. They want to destroy stuff.
And DA will be about destrying stuff not about boring dialogues and choices. Like most of latest "cRPGs". Fallout 3, Oblivion, Ass Deffect (ok, this one wasn't so bad as cRPG), Gothic III... which one was about something more that killing?

[Explodin' Gobbo]

So this is what the children like nowadays. EPIC, DARK, HEROIC FANTASY... hahaha. I hate this game now more then ever. All of this gritty, dark thing is just being forced too much - "Look Dragon Age is so mature!!!!111 Did we mentioned it's very mature!!!!111". Looks like they don't believe themselfs in what they're saying.
Another so so game by BioWare.

Why Bioware or Bethesda still exist while Troika is dead? :| It makes me sad :(

Because games without tons of stupidity don't sell that well.

[Prime Junta]

And DA will be about destrying stuff not about boring dialogues and choices. Like most of latest "cRPGs". Fallout 3, Oblivion, Ass Deffect (ok, this one wasn't so bad as cRPG), Gothic III... which one was about something more that killing?

We don't actually know that yet, you know, and there are even indications to the contrary.

[Prime Junta]

Because games without tons of stupidity don't sell that well.

Don't you think Troika's inability to ship a game that isn't chock-full of bugs, some of them game-breaking, might have something to do with it too?

[JemyM]

Looks awesome for a game from 2005.

[Dusk]

I think there are not so many games where themes, stories, characters and world settings are expected to be consistent. Bioware says that Dragon Age is a dark and heroic fantasy. The world is gray and dark enough for you to indulge yourself with violence and sex but, be assured, you can still be one of epic heroes. I know main stream games require much money but don't you think they are trying to appeal too many audiences?

[Prime Junta]

I think there are not so many games where themes, stories, characters and world settings are expected to be consistent. Bioware says that Dragon Age is a dark and heroic fantasy. The world is gray and dark enough for you to indulge yourself with violence and sex but, be assured, you can still be one of epic heroes. I know main stream games require much money but don't you think they are trying to appeal too many audiences?

Hey! You forgot Gritty!

It's a shame, though, if things have gotten to the point where you can only engage in sex in gray, dark, and violent (not to mention gritty) worlds.

I've only been keeping about one eye on the DA hype, although lately my interest level has been rising. And no, I don't think so. They've been pretty clear from the outset that this is a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, only Dark! and Gritty!. What they've shown so far is pretty consistent with that basic line. PnP based character development system -- check. Gobs of quests -- check. Epic main quest -- check. Gobs of character customization options -- check. Character background and development affecting plotlines -- check. Lots of dialog -- check. Blood -- check. Sex -- check. A color palette that looks like a garlic omelet vomited into a London sewer -- check.

I hated David Gaider's writing sample so much that I can't take this thing entirely seriously, but from where I'm at, it *looks* like they're trying to appeal to the hardcore cRPG crowd who liked the BG's, the Fallouts, the NWN's, The Witcher, and so on, and not console jockeys who have never played anything more complex than Oblivion.

IOW, I'm not expecting an OMG! instant classic here (although that would be nice), but I do have a much better feeling about this than I ever did about Jade Empire (which I rather liked) or Mass Effect (which was a disappointment).

It's unreasonable to expect BioWare to do a game that isn't a BioWare game, which means that a certain amount of (OK, rather a lot really) of cliché and formulaic writing is to be expected; BioWare never was particularly strong at breaking clichés or making huge creative leaps.

It is somewhat more reasonable to hope that they try something else than consolizing everything like they've been doing ever since KOTOR, and since this is -- I think -- what they're trying to do with DA, they deserve a bit more encouragement than they're getting here.

So I'm fairly certain I'll be buying this as soon as it hits the shelves.

[danutz_plusplus]

Seems the trailer did exactly what it planned to do. Create a lot of good and bad publicity. And there is no bad publicity. :D Ergo, they did a good job.

So this is what the children like nowadays. EPIC, DARK, HEROIC FANTASY... hahaha. I hate this game now more then ever. All of this gritty, dark thing is just being forced too much - "Look Dragon Age is so mature!!!!111 Did we mentioned it's very mature!!!!111". Looks like they don't believe themselfs in what they're saying.
Another so so game by BioWare.
Liking violence, blood and gore has nothing to do with maturity. I love violent movies/games/books and am quite mature. (at least I think so :p ) If you don't get what the trailer was meant to do you're going to feel offended. The very fact that you already hate the game speaks volumes. You're already making it personal. :)

I'm also quite sure I'll be getting it since it looks like it's gonna be quite good. Yeah, I can see past marketing and still see quality in this one. :)

[Dusk]

@PJ

At least, I understand this kind of business model works and, to be honest, the story is almost same here: I haven't played Jade Empire and Mass Effect but I have keeping an eye on Dragon Age simply because I'm interested in some classic RPG elements. Also, the lack of the universal morality slider appeals me. A part of me would like designers to take the content of their works more seriously while another part, or, probably, consumer part, is O.K. with the game as a whole. Although I'm not totally happy with it, I guess it's a "deal" to me.

[Dez]

This is the first trailer for Dragon Age that I've looked at. To me, graphic blood isn't mature, it's for the kiddies. Teen-age boys mostly. You wanna make an adult game? Put in graphic sex,

Amen!

I think bioware should just do hardcore porn. Elf porn to be exact. There aren't many games with that kind of content.

Seriously though DA is a game with tons of potential. Hopefully it is as memorable as bg2 :)

[mbuddha]

The very fact that you already hate the game speaks volumes. You're already making it personal. :)

I'm also quite sure I'll be getting it since it looks like it's gonna be quite good. Yeah, I can see past marketing and still see quality in this one. :)

So he already hates the game without playing it, and you already love the game without playing it. Personal as well, no?

Looks like the trailer is doing its job (besides appealing to a certain demographic) - it's provoking plenty of discussion. Hell I'm commenting and I haven't even seen it.

[xSamhainx]

What did you expect? A bunch of numbers floating by as elven maidens crunch "to hit" math?

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Some people here are obviously not tough enough to handle a Bioware game.

Nice try. ;)

I can handle much more, it's just that I don't want to. ;)

I can switch my emotions totally off while watching a horror movie if I want to. Then I'll just concentrate on how good the special effects and the play of the actors is. ;)

But this has also something to do with meeting my personal taste. Should I drink Tabasco only to show that I'm "tough" ?

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Liking violence, blood and gore has nothing to do with maturity. I love violent movies/games/books and am quite mature. (at least I think so :p )

I actually like some games which most people would call "immature". Just because of the fun they contain. And I'm mature, too (at least I think so. ;) )

Last Saturday I bought this (http://www.tivola.de/sarah.html?prod=757) game for me - because I just love unicorns. ;) Pure, white beings of fantasy realms ... No dark and not gritty at all.

Am I now immature ? Am I sick ? For such a ... "stupid" game ? With my currently 39 years of age ? ;)

I knew what I did. ;) And I consciously decided to buy this game for me. And for no-one else.

[Dez]

Nice try. ;)

I can handle much more, it's just that I don't want to. ;)

I can switch my emotions totally off while watching a horror movie if I want to. Then I'll just concentrate on how good the special effects and the play of the actors is. ;)

But this has also something to do with meeting my personal taste. Should I drink Tabasco only to show that I'm "tough" ?

Why would you switch your emotions totally off while watching horror movie? It doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't the whole point of horror movies to make a viewer feel "frightened". Atleast when I'm watching a film (horror/comedy/drama etc)..I let my emotions fly freely. :)

Besides really whats so special in DA's violence . Severance the blade of darkness did this years ago. And if you look at outside the rpg genre, many shooters have had their share of blood and gore for ages...From the orgnial wolfvestein 3d...

[DeepO]

Nice try. ;)

Chris Priestley of Bioware about the trailer:
"*Warning* May contain spoilers.
*Second Warning* Contains killer Marilyn Manson score
*Final Warning* Contains blood. Not for the faint hearted or weak stomached.
If you´re not tough enough to handle our game, turn back now." :)
http://daforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=677607&forum=135

[Thoth]

I never got horror movies... all you have are stereotypical beautiful people that get butchered (since no one has sympathy for ugly people dying) in the most unrealistically grotesque manners possible. There's no story, there's no real drama since the very real subject of death is made light anyway. So basically they try to "shock" us, which if you've cruised along the internet long enough, shouldn't be possible anymore. I mean, there's tons of sites out there that show you all kinds of mangled corpses, people being slaughtered, executions, torture, why do we need to see this all in movies were it will be goofy, unrealistic, not funny, and to be completely honest, boring? It's like that movie Chaos I believe it's called. The evil people rape and torture some girls and then *gasp* THE BAD GUY ESCAPES AND DOESN"T DIE!!! It's all just a lame attempt to try and gain cult classic status or something. FAIL.

This is why it's sad that Bioware would take this route. Anytime you have some marketing ape babbling about "U HAVE BEEN WARNED GUIZE ITS BAD DONT WATCH LOL!" you know you really shouldn't watch it since it's likely lame.

I can appreciate over the top violence that relishes it's cheesiness. Games like Blood, Carmageddon, Duke Nukem, et al had no illusions of being serious. They were jokes, parodies. Is DA a joke?

[xSamhainx]

is Friday the 13th the only horror movie that youve ever seen? Not all horror is slasher genre.

Why are you getting so worked up anyway about this? People were so worried that the thing wasnt displaying enough blood and realism first, now they put out one pump-em-up trailer dripping w/ it and youre all turning up your noses like it's totally tasteless or soemthing. Its combat, the core of a lot of this type of game is combat. So wtf is the problem?

How much caffiene do you drink Thoth? Ive been meaning to ask you that. I have the impression after reading a lot of your posts that youre a 4-6 cup of java type of guy

[Thoth]

is Friday the 13th the only horror movie that youve ever seen? Not all horror is slasher genre.

I've seen enough to know they're all the same. Hills have eyes, that crap that Rob Zombie makes, the old ones like Halloween, last house on the left (or was it right?), blah blah.

What other genre's are there? Like The Grudge or something? Obviously this game isn't going to be into scary crap jumping out of wells. It's apparently another game were a slash from a sword produces 50 gallons of blood. This is a critical RPG element apparently.

Why are you getting so worked up anyway about this? People were so worried that the thing wasnt displaying enough blood and realism first, now they put something out dripping w/ it and youre turning up your nose like it's totally tasteless or soemthing

I never complained about there not being blood. I have complained that it isn't very realistic, because it isn't. Having your party members hacked down only to get back up after a battle is over and be fine except maybe requiring some healing potions is pretty stupid. Bioware wasn't afraid of forcing the player to raise dead in the BG games, I don't see why they can't do so now. Why do companies feel that they'll hurt our self esteem or something?

How much caffiene do you drink Thoth, Ive always meant to ask you that. I have the impression after reading a lot of your posts that youre a 4-6 cup type of guy

:lol:

Not coffee, but Dr. Pepper. It's like a drug. Add alcohol to the mix and you get some pretty tense posts. I do apologize if I ever come off as being vicious or angry to any other members. It's not my intention, I'm really just venting against these companies as if they'd actually read my little posts.

[Dez]

I don't enjoy mindless ultra violent horror films. I'm talking about horror films like shining where the horror element isn't done over the top, where the horror element is more psychological nature. A good horror film doesn't have to be full of gore or violence. Dr jekyl and mr hyde, island of lost souls, 28 days later, The birds, psycho for example aren't very violent, but they are considred as horror classics and good movies as a whole. :)

[Thoth]

I don't enjoy mindless ultra violent horror films. I'm talking about horror films like shining where the horror element isn't done over the top, where the horror element is more psychological nature. A good horror film doesn't have to be full of gore or violence. Dr jekyl and mr hyde, island of lost souls, 28 days later, The birds, psycho for example aren't very violent, but they are considred as horror classics and good movies as a whole. :)

I wouldn't include 28 days later since that movie suffered from the herky jerky OMG camera technique that plagues most modern movies. Plus, I thought it was over the top, but then I tend to think most zombie movies are goofy to begin with.

The rest, yeah definitely. I'd say that the psychological horror in most episodes of The Twilight Zone blow away anything made nowadays with all their cg and gimmicks.

[xSamhainx]

There are plenty other types of horror film beyond slashers, and quite frankly, slashers are widely considered to be at the bottom of the totem pole. Monster horror, like The Fly, The Relic, Cloverfield, Salem's Lot and the myriad of vampire and werewolf films immediately come to mind. In those youve got the more artsy stuff like Interview w/ the Vampire and In the Shadow of the Vampire. Sci-fi horror like Alien, the original Terminator, Event Horizon, etc. Ghostie flicks like Shining, Poltergeist, the Ring. Youve got the foreign horrors like european Hammer Studios classics w/ christopher lee and the like doing all their Draculas and all their stuff. Youve got asian horror which tends to be more spiritual in nature, wild spanish and mexican horror which is way out there.. then you got zombies, or the new equivelent "infected" stuff. This is just generalities too, there's stuff that falls between the cracks and doesnt fall into any sort of hard category. Saying that slasher films epitomize ALL horror belies your little knowledge of the subject. It's like saying all comedy is like those retarded Ace Ventura type films, or all rpgs are just like Diablo so why bother playing any others after youve experienced it.

and I knew you were on SOMETHING ;]
Ive known Dr Pepper addicts before, theyre a strange lot. Just be careful w/ that stuff, it'll eventually rot yer teeth and make ya fat! The booze is the least of your concerns

For the record, I'm against the "nobody dies" thing too in games, that's why I tend to just reload generally after someone falls. Im not of the opinion that it's for self-esteem reasons tho, I'm more thinking that it's to keep the game moving along instead of having people by default forced into being obsessive (like me) and having to do a particular section ad inifinitum without losing a trooper. Blood is realistic tho, it sprays when someone is hit by a blade. That's just the way it is

[skavenhorde]

I wouldn't include 28 days later since that movie suffered from the herky jerky OMG camera technique that plagues most modern movies.

I would include it. It's a great zombie/disease zombie movie. You gotta love zombies that run their butts off instead of shuffling towards the victim.

As for the trailer. Lots of blood that's for sure. I like how they're not trying to please everyone and their mother with "nice, wholesome" entertainment. The trailer was over the top, but I think that was what they were going for. I mean it is titled Violence after all.

[Thoth]

There are plenty other types of horror film beyond slashers, and quite frankly, slashers are widely considered to be at the bottom of the totem pole. Monster horror, like The Fly, The Relic, Cloverfield, Salem's Lot and the myriad of vampire and werewolf films immediately come to mind. In those youve got the more artsy stuff like Interview w/ the Vampire and In the Shadow of the Vampire. Sci-fi horror like Alien, the original Terminator, Event Horizon, etc. Ghostie flicks like Shining, Poltergeist, the Ring. Youve got the foreign horrors like european Hammer Studios classics w/ christopher lee and the like doing all their Draculas and all their stuff. Youve got asian horror which tends to be more spiritual in nature, wild spanish and mexican horror which is way out there.. then you got zombies, or the new equivelent "infected" stuff. This is just generalities too, there's stuff that falls between the cracks and doesnt fall into any sort of hard category. Saying that slasher films epitomize ALL horror belies your little knowledge of the subject. It's like saying all comedy is like those retarded Ace Ventura type films, or all rpgs are just like Diablo so why bother playing any others after youve experienced it.

I'm assuming that the talk of horror was based on this new DA trailer, so I was only focusing on slasher movies, because that's what this trailer looks like. Lots of blood, little substance. I've seen most of those movies you listed as well as genres. I have to admit, I never considered some of them to be horror though.

and I knew you were on SOMETHING ;]
Ive known Dr Pepper addicts before, theyre a strange lot. Just be careful w/ that stuff, it'll eventually rot yer teeth and make ya fat! The booze is the least of your concerns

This is very true, but I must obey the the Good Doctor. I must.

For the record, I'm against the "nobody dies" thing too in games, that's why I tend to just reload generally after someone falls. Im not of the opinion that it's for self-esteem reasons tho, I'm more thinking that it's to keep the game moving along instead of having people by default forced into being obsessive (like me) and having to do a particular section ad inifinitum without losing a trooper. Blood is realistic tho, it sprays when someone is hit by a blade. That's just the way it is

The self-esteem bit is just a joke, but it does appear to appeal to casual gamers in order to make the game easier or something. Gone are the days were games actually challenge you.

As for the trailer. Lots of blood that's for sure. I like how they're not trying to please everyone and their mother with "nice, wholesome" entertainment. The trailer was over the top, but I think that was what they were going for. I mean it is titled Violence after all.

Please. They know what they can get away with. Parents these days don't seem to care about video games anymore so there won't be any controversy. If there was, then Bioware would avoid it unless it promised profit, like the GTA games. I'm not impressed by violence. To me it's a gimmick.

Now what I would be impressed with is a truly realistic shooter or something. Like say, you shoot some guy in the gut, there's a puff of smoke from his stomach, he collapses, gurgles and carries on, maybe starts crying or something and takes like five minutes to actually die. Perhaps it would make the kids think a little as opposed to just slashing enemies that are apparently filled with blood, gravy, and three bones that disappear after a few seconds.

[skavenhorde]

Please. They know what they can get away with. Parents these days don't seem to care about video games anymore so there won't be any controversy. If there was, then Bioware would avoid it unless it promised profit, like the GTA games. I'm not impressed by violence. To me it's a gimmick.

Please yourself, you don't know for a fact that Bioware "knows that they can get away with it". In any case, I don't give a rat's behind if they can get away with it or not. All I care about is that they are making mature games instead of going in the "Sonic the Hedgehog" style of content. Someone already posted earlier about how they had trailers dealing with the RPG and gameplay portion of the game so why not throw in a silly gimmicky trailer. Get that console crowd on board ;)

[Thoth]

Please yourself, you don't know for a fact that Bioware "knows that they can get away with it". In any case, I don't give a rat's behind if they can get away with it or not. All I care about is that they are making mature games instead of going in the "Sonic the Hedgehog" style of content. Someone already posted earlier about how they had trailers dealing with the RPG and gameplay portion of the game so why not throw in a silly gimmicky trailer. Get that console crowd on board ;)

How is anything in that trailer mature? All I saw were big dudes with shoulder pads slashing through other dudes with geysers of what appear to be hot sauce spraying everywhere, some woman wearing modern day lingerie and having what appears to be awkward sex or something, more blood, dragons, loud and terrible music.

But you're right, it was for console kids and casual gamers, it's just a shame that that audience has to influence potentially good games.

[Squeek]

Watching this reminded me of George R. R. Martin's books. It was dark, unapologetic and suggestive of the violent, political and sexual strategies and tactics one might expect in an adult fantasy-adventure world suddenly squeezed under the heavy thumb of natural selection.

Martin's a slow writer, maybe because his work isn't easy. I grew tired of waiting for him to write more and gave up after re-reading his first two or three books. I don't imagine making a game reminiscent of them would be any easier.

It could be good or it could be bad...we'll just have to wait and see.

[skavenhorde]

How is anything in that trailer mature?

Thoth are you playing dumb? I gave the example of Sonic the Hedgehog. After they announced they were doing that game I dreaded that all games they made were going to be toned down and more family friendly. Obviously this isn't family friendly.

But you're right, it was for console kids and casual gamers, it's just a shame that that audience has to influence potentially good games.

Did you see the other trailers? Have you read anything about this game? Have you read what the developers and Bioware people have said about it? If you have you would know just how ridiculuos it is to say that console kids had any influence on this game. They made it first for the PC and then it seems as an afterthought they're porting it to the consoles.

So what, they made one silly trailer that is filled with blood and gore. They have tons of other material and other trailers dealing with the other aspects of the game. What the hell is wrong with doing something silly and stupid sometimes?I've been reading these threads at DA, the codex and here. All of them seem to have the same theme of "OMG it's lame". Come on people get over yourself. It's a stupid trailer that isn't meant to be taken seriously. Like I said there is tons of other material out there if you want to know about the real game.

Plus I liked it, but I like tacky shit and I like that song. I'm not basing my decision on whether or not to buy this game because of this trailer. I already have all the info I need about that.

Anyone remember when Black Isle released Easter Egg Morte or Leprechaun Annah patch for Torment? This trailer sorta reminds me of that. When a company does something silly for no reason at all other than some stupid fun.

[chamr]

Please! No calling for more game-engine sex scenes! I like a little smut as much as the next guy, but let's be honest: the technology (and usually the writers) just isn't up to it. Either do CGI or don't do it at all. In fact, maybe not even with CGI at this point. It's embarrassing. Watching this little piece of DA foolishness made me cringe when it came to the "sex" scene. That kind of eye-roll-inducing, sophomoric, ham-fisted, wooden nonsense justifies the opinion that gamers are overgrown children living with their parents in the basement.

[xSamhainx]

Good looking models and imagery seem to work out if done well, but the minute they start simulating any kinda sexual act - i agree it's downright cringeworthy. Violence can be pulled off, but graphic sex is a tall order.

Ive been seeing ads for "simpsons" porn around lately, and it just boggles my mind. Seriously. Just when i thought Ive seen it all, there's some goofball doin the 5 knuckle shuffle to a marge simpson gangbang. So we may be in the minority on this one!

[msoltyspl]

At least the battlefield looked more like battlefield, not like Teen 13+ version of it (often bloodless or close to it) :) As for that minuscule "sex" part - well, either have the balls to show at least naked people, or don't bother at all - in this form it doesn't make much sense, if any at all. I understand they didn't want to anger nutters and prudes, but still ...

Anyway, for a small "experimental" trailer - some of the conclusions drawn here are rather far fetched. IMHO.

[GhanBuriGhan]

Considering that Mansons song is actually a barbed commentary on the mindless infatuation of society with everything that is "extreme", "cool", "violent", i.e. the next media hype (and the next, and the next) this trailer is actually quite a deliciously ironic thing. Just like the song itself, btw, which most probably just mindlessly sing along with, without getting it's meaning at all (do we get it? No! Do we want it? Yes!)I don't know if it is conscious, but if it is, this thing is working on so many levels, that it is actually almost transcending into art. Maybe it is even art especially if it is not conscious...

[Dusk]

Considering that Mansons song is actually a barbed commentary on the mindless infatuation of society with everything that is "extreme", "cool", "violent", i.e. the next media hype (and the next, and the next) this trailer is actually quite a deliciously ironic thing. Just like the song itself, btw, which most probably just mindlessly sing along with, without getting it's meaning at all (do we get it? No! Do we want it? Yes!)I don't know if it is conscious, but if it is, this thing is working on so many levels, that it is actually almost transcending into art. Maybe it is even art especially if it is not conscious...
Well, this logic would make any internet board into a kind of art.

Seriously, though, what troubles me is that we may be accelerating the flood of these chimeric products by buying these products aimed to "everyone." Such unconscious consumer actions tend to end up with filling the market with junk foods and Hollywood movies. The irony here is, to some extent, we are more political as "consumers" than joining a certain "political activities", which would be one of the reasons why I tend to be bitter/cynical to "political discussions."

[Prime Junta]

What other genre's are there? Like The Grudge or something?

Oof, off the top of my head: Birds, The Exorcist, The Shining, Prince of Darkness, It, Cape Fear, Dead Calm... sounds to me that you really ought to broaden your viewing beyond teenie-slasher stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that either, of course.

[Prime Junta]

Please! No calling for more game-engine sex scenes! I like a little smut as much as the next guy, but let's be honest: the technology (and usually the writers) just isn't up to it. Either do CGI or don't do it at all. In fact, maybe not even with CGI at this point. It's embarrassing. Watching this little piece of DA foolishness made me cringe when it came to the "sex" scene. That kind of eye-roll-inducing, sophomoric, ham-fisted, wooden nonsense justifies the opinion that gamers are overgrown children living with their parents in the basement.

I've actually kinda gotten to appreciate the unintentional cheesiness of BioWare games. There's something endearing about it. David Gaider is so dreadfully earnest about it, he's like the Ed Wood of computer-game writers.

[Dusk]

Oof, off the top of my head: Birds, The Exorcist, The Shining, Prince of Darkness, It, Cape Fear, Dead Calm... sounds to me that you really ought to broaden your viewing beyond teenie-slasher stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that either, of course.
I think you are doing an argument for argument's shake here since you know Bioware doesn't have appropriate human-resource for making these works.
I hated David Gaider's writing sample so much that I can't take this thing entirely seriously,
I've actually kinda gotten to appreciate the unintentional cheesiness of BioWare games. There's something endearing about it. David Gaider is so dreadfully earnest about it, he's like the Ed Wood of computer-game writers.
I see but I guess he is rather expensive for being an Ed Wood...

[Thaurin]

Looks awesome for a game from 2005.

That's a bit harsh, but I've been wondering along the same lines as well. I mean, it doesn't really look ugly, but it seems to me that the graphics in this game aren't that great neither. And that's kinda weird, because they hit a graphical high note with Mass Effect. Maybe it's because they're putting more NPCs on the screen at one time, coupled with console hardware limitations? It's a shame really.

[DArtagnan]

So the trailer was some kind of profound statement laced with irony?

Mmm, ok.

[GhanBuriGhan]

Well, this logic would make any internet board into a kind of art.



So? Art has seen far weirder concepts than that :)

[GhanBuriGhan]

So the trailer was some kind of profound statement laced with irony?

Mmm, ok.

I don't know. I somewhat doubt it. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it that way - I think it is a near perfect commentary of the conundrums facing "rebellious" art (like Mansons) in the face of the mass market. Everything gets corrupted, and at the same time gets ironically broken. Beautiful.

[Prime Junta]

I see but I guess he is rather expensive for being an Ed Wood...

Indeed he is. I would be much happier if they had better writers, but I guess you can't have everything.

[Prime Junta]

I don't know. I somewhat doubt it. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it that way - I think it is a near perfect commentary of the conundrums facing "rebellious" art (like Mansons) in the face of the mass market. Everything gets corrupted, and at the same time gets ironically broken. Beautiful.

Reminds me of Ronald Reagan appropriating "Born In The U.S.A." for his electoral campaign.

[DArtagnan]

I don't know. I somewhat doubt it. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it that way - I think it is a near perfect commentary of the conundrums facing "rebellious" art (like Mansons) in the face of the mass market. Everything gets corrupted, and at the same time gets ironically broken. Beautiful.

Considering this is a mass market title, and that an official spokesperson apparently said this trailer was to capture another kind of audience so they can maximize exposure - I find very little reason to suspect that the trailer was meant to do anything except enthrall those who enjoy gore and sex as the main objective in a game.

The fact that they chose the song they did, tells me they REALLY don't care about people like myself as a potential customer.

But that's ok, I never bought into the hype they've attempted to generate on these boards, and I was never expecting anything but a mildly entertaining and well-produced Bioware game for the masses.

I just didn't expect them to be THIS blatant about it, because I got a different vibe from the Bioware devs around here, that they were treating the game seriously.

[txa1265]

Wow ... amazing firestorm of reactions ...

[Badesumofu]

I would suggest that this trailer had a few purposes.

1) To get attention. DA:O now has massive mind-share, people are talking about it all over the internets. It'll probably be on Fox News, too.

2) To boost console sales. Maybe even get more people into Bioware style RPGs.

3) I suspect that the choice of that song was a concious wink to their more hardcore fans. The first time I watched the trailer, I laughed at the over the top silliness.

I've seen enough promising material about this game that I'm not going to let one silly and highly amusing trailer put me off. I was recently watching another you tube clip in which a human noble warrior and an elven mage (mage background) went into the same camp and situation, and had very different experiences. It's not just a couple of lines of dialouge, either. I was impressed, it looks like this game definitely is good for at least two or three playthroughs.

(minor spoilers)

Also, you see the characters make a genuine choice about how to treat a prisoner... and making the nice choice meant you missed out on some items. In fact, if you're nice, you never even find out that there could have been a reward. If you take a 'what's in it for me?' approach, you can cash in. And it wasn't just a binary choice, either. And it wasn't like The Witcher where each choice is explicitly presented and binary. The choices seem to have consequences, they feel natural as well. You can get everything you want from a character, then just murder him. Or you can offer him help without asking for anything, and he more or less takes advantage of you. He doesn't just give you the reward anyway at the end. There are no good or bad points either. It's real role-playing, not choosing between whether you need gold, items, or good points.

(spoilers over)

The combat looks excellent as well. I think this could be one of the best RPGs of its scope in a very long time. This trailer just shows that they aren't taking themselves too seriously, and that 'dark and gritty' doesn't mean it won't also be tons of fun.

For the record, I thought ME was kinda bland, repetitive, and just not memorable at all. JE was a bit of fun, but nothing special. NWN1 was so bad I never finished the first chapter. So I am by no means a Bioware fanboy. But I have a really good feeling about DA:O. I think it could really be something special.

[Badesumofu]

The fact that they chose the song they did, tells me they REALLY don't care about people like myself as a potential customer.

I just didn't expect them to be THIS blatant about it, because I got a different vibe from the Bioware devs around here, that they were treating the game seriously.

It's a trailer, not the game itself. Just because they make one trailer that is aimed at different people than you, that means they don't care you? I don't see how the choie of music for the trailer indicates that they don't care about a certain section of gamers, either.

I just find it bizzare that people seem to feel almost betrayed because Bioware made one silly trailer. They've put out masses of stuff that details various elements of the game, like role playing, the effect of your character's background on the way people treat you, the combat, the choices and consequences.

They are a business. They want to get as much attention for their product as possible.

[DArtagnan]

It's a trailer, not the game itself. Just because they make one trailer that is aimed at different people than you, that means they don't care you? I don't see how the choie of music for the trailer indicates that they don't care about a certain section of gamers, either.

I just find it bizzare that people seem to feel almost betrayed because Bioware made one silly trailer. They've put out masses of stuff that details various elements of the game, like role playing, the effect of your character's background on the way people treat you, the combat, the choices and consequences.

They are a business. They want to get as much attention for their product as possible.

I don't feel betrayed - and the trailer just confirms what I already knew.

I would never expect them to care about me as an individual - that would be ridiculous.

I can have an opinion about their marketing and their games without being emotionally hurt - you know.

[Maylander]

A Norwegian gamesite has just published a preview (hands-on) of Dragon Age. Link: http://www.gamer.no/article.php?articleId=17771

Basically, the writer is a huge fan of BG2, and was very worried by the violence trailer, but was completely blown away by the actual game. His mediocre expectations became high once more, and he's greatly looking forward to the game.

He mainly focuses on the solid combat and good dialogues. However, he didn't see too much of the game, so he wouldn't pass any final judgement at this point.

[Krzychu]

Well, I almost expected for someone to scream: "This... is... FERELDEN!!!" ;)
By the way, I liked the voiceover of the guy speaking in the beginning.

I don't know, the trailer is kinda silly, not very atmospheric, but I'm telling myself that this is merely a trailer. It probably won't affect my decision to buy the game.

As for the blood and gore - I'm not sure about this trailer, but the blood in some of the earlier screenshots (on people's faces, etc.) looked extremely low-res. If there's going to be so much blood, then it better not stand out in a negative way.

Considering that Mansons song is actually a barbed commentary on the mindless infatuation of society with everything that is "extreme", "cool", "violent", i.e. the next media hype (and the next, and the next) this trailer is actually quite a deliciously ironic thing. Just like the song itself, btw, which most probably just mindlessly sing along with, without getting it's meaning at all (do we get it? No! Do we want it? Yes!)

Damn, I didn't listen to the lyrics at first, but now that you mention it, I wonder if this was intentional...

[magerette]

Whoa buddy. In my on-again, off-again feelings about this game, I'm back to mildly turned off now. That was the most juvenile silly thing I've seen in a long time,especially that dorky semi-sexy glup. Calling it Ed Wood-ish is throwing roses at it.

@GhanburiGhan; Nice insight on the Manson thing. I don't get much of any kind of feeling of genuineness from this though, even irony.

[Prime Junta]

BioWare's strong suit isn't irony, so I'll file this one into the Ed Wood/Dave Gaider file.

[Roland]

I've watched ALL the previous Dragon Age video releases and I was and still am excited about the game as much as ever. This new "violence" trailer was different and I thought it was actually fun...

Anyone who's been following the development of the game knows and has seen that the game will deal with more mature themes as far as story and moral choices as well and the element of blood and violence in the game.

This new video is not what I'd call a surprise...it only showcases elements of the game that's always been there, now just compressed into a a short film clip depicting as much.

And YES, I agree that it was a sound marketing move, the web is buzzing about it and I'm sure there are players out there that are aware of the game who weren't before...so I'd call that a success.

To any who now cry foul and spout now waning interest because of this new trailer...I can only say that you didn't really understand what the game was about or contained before. That said, the whole game is not going to be a hyper paced bloodbath of violence. It will be there at times and that's what this video is portraying in a stylized condensed form.

All that's been shone before will be there as well, so it's all good in my book ;)

Again it's funny to see the aristocracy get their panties in a dither over something that imo should be taken as fun and intentionally over the top ;)

/Nuns...no sense of humor!

heh

Regards

[magerette]

To any who now cry foul and spout now waning interest because of this new trailer...I can only say that you didn't really understand what the game was about or contained before.
I was just hoping this juvenilia wasn't what it was about or contained. ;) And I'm sure the game is going to be more substantive--as you say this is a marketing move from the master marketers @ BW.

My panties are totally undithered. I'm not a huge Bioware fan anyway, so don't mind me. :)

[Roland]

Good to hear...for dithered panties are quite vexing and dithersome ;)

I have "hope" that the game will be both enjoyable and challenging!
I've been impressed by all the dev dairies and previews thus far...

[Squeek]

They say all publicity is good publicity (and panty-talk is a plus, of course), but I have to think the devs had higher hopes for how this new trailer would be received. The big thumbs-down this and the new logo are both getting have to be disappointing.

[Roland]

They say all publicity is good publicity (and panty-talk is a plus, of course), but I have to think the devs had higher hopes for how this new trailer would be received. The big thumbs-down this and the new logo are both getting have to be disappointing.

agreed.

But I think/hope there's times enough before the release that further previews and trailers and such will bolster it back and past previous levels of interest and anticipation...

And upon release if the game is sound and fun it will be a success ;)

[Dez]

The combat looked nice, hopefully the gameplay is in a bar with visuals.

However this sort of advertaising is hurting DA's image imo..They claim DA to be "gritty mature dark heroic fantasy." Yes it is dark and gritty and maybe even a bit heroic, but whats the mature part in this trailer? I felt like I was watching MTV's random music video :) If they wish people to think that this game continues bg2's tradition, they better start presenting the game in a way which doesn't make the game look silly.

But what i'm whing here, I'm going to buy the game anyhow no matter the adds. :)

[Roland]

The blood and gore is the dark and gritty, the character's moral dilemmas and consequences within a dark fantasy setting is the "mature"...

And from scanning the 49+ pages on the official DA forums that is discussing the video, it seems to "me" that the majority of posts are positive.

[txa1265]

I was pretty neutral on watching ... maybe I've seen to many crap commercials for games on TV to really care one way or the other. I do like what I've seen from videos about the game itself.

And music videos with pop-shock theatrical types like Manson are of little interest, pretty 'low art' to start - the comparison to Springsteen is good, since by then he was a sold-out mass media patsy anyway.

[aries100]

Bioware can, of course, do what they want. However, my expectations went down a whole lot because of this game trailer. Marketing apparently thinks that people who play fps and action games are all just interested in blood, gore, violence and sex, yes, sex. I hope (too) many console players (just to call them this) will see this trailer, and say something like 'yes, it looks interesting, but isn't the main reason we would be buying this game'. People are really not that stupid as someone from an evil desk in marketing might think they are....

Personally, I don't like the blood in the trailer, also because people don't react that way when being hit by sword in the stomach. No gushing og blood unless the sword hits one of the main veins. And I don't get (some) developers think that mature means blood, blood, gore, gore and sex, sex and more gore, and not well thought out choices, a great story, good consequences and being able to give the palyer choices that are morally and ethical deeper than in a game rated E for for everyone (although these also can have some great an difficult choices)

As for the music score; I don't like Marilyn Manson's music that much - let alone when you can't hear what is beeing song. I agree, though, that if you do read the text, it is wonderfull ironic comment on their own creation, the DA IP. And so it is really breaking the fourth wall - while serving as a comment to the hype and expectation surrounding any new game as well...

[Dusk]

Here is a new Lead Designer Interview at Gametrailers.com (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/49061.html). Although there is no new information, the information is well-summarized. Although it uses some of the scenes from the Violence trailer, I'd recommend this one.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Why would you switch your emotions totally off while watching horror movie? It doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't the whole point of horror movies to make a viewer feel "frightened". Atleast when I'm watching a film (horror/comedy/drama etc)..I let my emotions fly freely. :)

NOW you see why I don't see any sense in watching horror movies ... ;)

YOU don't let your emotions "flow" while watching ... na, you would deny it anyway because you'd call it "immature" ... ;)

Considering that Mansons song is actually a barbed commentary on the mindless infatuation of society with everything that is "extreme", "cool", "violent", i.e. the next media hype (and the next, and the next) this trailer is actually quite a deliciously ironic thing. Just like the song itself, btw, which most probably just mindlessly sing along with, without getting it's meaning at all (do we get it? No! Do we want it? Yes!)I don't know if it is conscious, but if it is, this thing is working on so many levels, that it is actually almost transcending into art. Maybe it is even art especially if it is not conscious...

Reminds me of Ronald Reagan appropriating "Born In The U.S.A." for his electoral campaign.

Fits very much together. I had already suspected that the choice of Marilyn Mansion was done for a rather symbolic meaning. I didn't mention it, because I couldn't prove it. Once again, my intuition was right ... ;)

I have a higb respect for his "art philosophy". I mean MM himself. His philosophy consists of shocking people - much like a weird form of a heyokah, a trickster, someone who uses the element of shocking to force people to question their (ways of) thoughts. He shocks people to force people to ask themselves: "What is normal ? Who defines it ?" Something like that.

With this interpretation, the "violence trailer" becomes/gets a an interesting twist.

I guess the folks there might have learned a lesson from the Mass Effect "alien sex" gossip as well.
So much that now they're perhaps actually PROVOKING a reaction they received UNWANTED by that "alien sex" gossip for Mass Effect before.

What no-one actually does and what I would wholeheartedly like to do is giving a game/movie/music CD a kind of "dark & gritty" image that fully supports this CD - but the actual CONTENTS are the EXACT oppsite !

It's like producing a CD with a death metal cover which ACTUALLY contains lullabies. Pure, harmless, naive lullabies without even the slightest hint of irony.
Or even worse: Children's songs.

I think THAT ould be the perfect way to really, really shock the supporters of the "dark & gritty faction" ! :cm:

[kalniel]

I think THAT ould be the perfect way to really, really shock the supporters of the "dark & gritty faction" ! :cm:

http://www.diii.net/gallery/data/553/d3-tshirt-rainbows.jpg

[JDR13]

Personally, I don't like the blood in the trailer, also because people don't react that way when being hit by sword in the stomach.


Really? So you've witnessed that event often? ;)

[DArtagnan]

I love that D3 picture ;)

[aries100]

Really? So you've witnessed that event often? ;)

-ehm-

English is not my native language, but what I really meant is this:

When people are shot or hit by a sword, they don't burst out with blood, unless one of our main veins (or arteries) have been punctured.

In the trailer, we see lots of blood that seem to come from people who just have a sword put in their stomach. Also, I wonder why this is ? They have armor on their bodies. Wouldn't the blood flow down the armour or stay within the armour?

[Konjad]

In the trailer, we see lots of blood that seem to come from people who just have a sword put in their stomach. Also, I wonder why this is ? They have armor on their bodies. Wouldn't the blood flow down the armour or stay within the armour?
'cos it desun't look cool and next-gen!