Top 10 CRPGs of all time

[Gokyabgu]

I just want to open a message board here about this topic. I will be pleased if you list your top ten RPGs with your reason why you like them. Here is my list:

1) Baldurs Gate 2&TOB: Best RPG have ever walked the Earth. Epic story, vast game world, balanced and challenging difficulty setting, character interaction, feel of cleaning the map because of no monster spawning, graphics like art paintings (I don’t prefer latest 3d graphic technologies to this game), and many other reason i can not count that you might expect from an RPG.

2) Gothic 2: A world full of mysteries that shapes according to your actions and your status in society. Rewarding game structure who likes exploring, 3 different faction that you can choose…

3) Morrowind: First game that told what is the meaning of freedom. Alas, I could not find what i expect in Oblivion .

4) Divine Divinity: Excellent mix of Diablo style gameplay with vast realm that you can lost yourself in it as you please. You can even buy a house and furnish it as you like in this game.

5) Planescape: Torment: A Black Isle classic that takes place in the most sophisticated and philosophic fantasy realm ever made, Planescape; with a story that you can find only in best fantasy novels. When you play it, you feel like reading a perfect fantasy book. And, its graphics are state of art.

6) Vampire The Masquarade: Bloodlines: Fantastic vampire RPG that takes place in modern world. The game do not present you much freedom but it has the most interesting quests have ever made (You can track a snuff film in one quest). A Troika legend that gives FPS,TPS and horror game feeling at the same time. (Unfortunately with a selling value of only 75.000 caused Troika to shut its doors. People do not know what is ‘good game’.)

7) Arcanum: If you transfer elves and dwarves that live in a medieval realm to a world in an industry revolution, what will be the results? This wonderful RPG. Story that can make the player upside down in anytime in a vast world. Don’t let the graphics estrange you.

8) Star Wars:Knights Of The Old Republic: Reflects the Star Wars universe wonderfully. Gives your character the possibility to lean towards dark or light side according to your choices and actions (changes the appearance of it as well). Interactions with characters is in top form.

9) Icewind Dale: Linear but deep story with lots of action that you can use different tactics.

10) Wizardry 8: The most perfect RPG system that i have ever witnessed. Your PCs gain experience with fighting and solving quest, at the same time your skills develop if you use them. Well balanced turn based system.

[Corwin]

The problem with your list, is that it only contains games released in the last few years!! Your title states ALL TIME!! Sorry, while I really like most of the games you mention, you have ignored several that MUST be on the list. I could mention some of the M&M games, System Shock, or even DX, but really, I only need one word:- ULTIMA!!

[Gokyabgu]

For me, 2001 and 2002 are golden years for CRPGs. Many games on my top ten list comes from this period. This doesn't mean I did not play or love Ultima, M&M, Fallout, Diablo series. Just, they can not enter my top ten list. So it is 'my' list. Then, i expect yours. :)

[Maylander]

My list:
1. Baldur's Gate 2. This is simply amazing in every aspect.
2. Gothic 1 - still the very best open world RPG I've played.
3. Placescape: Torment - dialogues anyone? Doesn't get better than this.
4. Gothic 2 - bigger and better than G1, but still lacked a certain something for me in terms of atmosphere.
5. Baldur's Gate 1 - Basically BG2 but without all the improvements.
6. Gothic 3 - Yes indeed, you find it on my top ten, despite all the bugs. Once you get through it a couple of times you'll find that it has strong points no other game to date has(at least not in full 3D).
7. Arcanum - Had loads of brilliant ideas, but fails to be mentioned by too many as a great RPG, possibly because it had too many new ideas and not enough of what people expected at the time. I still consider it among the greats though.
8. Might and Magic 6 - this is quite possibly the biggest game I've ever played. I have no idea how many days or weeks it took me to get through it, but we're talking at least twice as long as any other game. The only drawback is the rather weird ending, but otherwise this is a winner.
9. Might and Magic 7 - a bit smaller than M&M6, but with slightly better graphics and smoother gameplay it was still a great game. I like how the game has various paths to complete it, not many games have that.
10. Neverwinter Nights 2 - does it really deserve it? Yes, for one reason: The ressurrection of Baldur's Gate. This is the first game in years that resembles BG in gameplay and NPCs, and I feel it should be mentioned on a top 10 list because it is the only game nowadays that brings new hope and maybe a new future to oldschool RPGs.

There are many other games I should mention, of course, such as KotOR, but in general linear games never make it into my list, as I love decisions decisions decisions. Also, games like Ultima and FF should be mentioned, but I'm not a great fan of Japanese style RPGs, unlike our good friend Corwin here. It's a matter of taste, of course, but I am capable of seeing what makes Ultima and FF great, despite not placing them in my top 10.

[Naked_Lunch]

1. Ultima VII: Utterly groundbreaking and amazing game with non-linearity only (just barely) matched by Gothic 3. The sheer amount of things you can do in the game blows my mind and the fact that I've been playing it for 5 years and beaten dozens of times and yet I STILL find new things really makes me a happy camper 'bout this one.

2. Prelude to Darkness: Rather obscure freeware rpg (GOOGLE IT!) that excels in all areas. It has a great character system that combines traditional stat-based leveling with a daggerfall-like system of leveling up by item usage. It has amazing options and consequences. I can't think of a quest in the game that doesn't have less than 2 different distinct ways of completing it/failing it. The combat is easily the best I've played in any game and my goodness, I just cannot get over this game. It is living proof that hardwork and dedication get you a lot further than just big budgets and hype.

3. Arcanum: Fallout done better, in my opinion. Much more expanded world, breathtaking dialogues (Especially when you look in the editor and see what goes on behind the scenes). Amazing.

4. Gearhead: Yet another obscure freeware game, this time a neato post-apocalyptic roguelike. Has a fantastic character system with over 20 classes, all useful and fun to play. A huge world with plenty of things to do, characters to see, things to kill, mechas to build.

5. Fallout: DUH, my friends. Duh.

6 & 7. Gothic 2 and 3: True sucessors to Ultima. 2 is pretty much 3D Ultima VII and 3 is plain and simple just mindblowing in it's scope and how well it pulled it off.

8: Divine Divinity: If it didn't have so much hack 'n slash, it would easily dominate the top five simply for the world interaction and characters. Shame Beyond Divinity was such garbage and that DivDiv 2 doesn't look too good.

9. Darklands: Probably one of the most large and complex games in existence, even if it is a bit dated. There is really nothing you can't do in this game. You can be an alchemist and actually be useful beyond making potions. You can rob castles, sack cities, all sorts of fantastic stuff. All done in '92, too! So ahead of it's time...

10. Ancient Domains of Mystery: Just the most hack 'n slashin' fun you can have with ASCII.

[Fenris]

1. Fate - Gates of Dawn
This Game was just amazing... around 1990 on Amiga.. a Bard's Tale-Clon with so many great Features (You could play 4 Partys a 7 People, everyone had a basic personality and the classes were just great - i.e. Jesters, Nymphs, Knights, Banshees... over 40 classes IIRC and still different to play...)

2. Realms of Arkania I - Blade of Destiny
The Dark Eye was the first PnP-RPG I stumbled upon, and Blade of Destiny captured the feeling of the Game excellent... so much to do and to see ;)

3. Realms of Arkania II - Startrail
More Dark-Eye-Goodness ;)

4. Legend of Faerghail (Amiga only, PC-Version sucks)
Another old german Bard's Tale-Clone... again with nice classes, interesting enemys and for the time - and only on Amiga, PC-Version was EGA :( - beautyful graphics.

5. Baldur's Gate 2
The Personality of the NPCs made this Game great... a pity that Throne of Bhaal turnt into a hackfest.

6. Baldur's Gate 1
Roaming in a big and open world with good friends... especially with the Tutu and NPC-Mods.

7. Planescape Torment
Great Story, fascinating Characters.

8. Dungeon Master
I still can recitate most Rune-Names and Spells - the first first-Person-Real Time RPG... I remember the scary Sekeletons and the dangerous purple Worms... and Chaos strikes back was one of the hardest and best AddOns ever...

9. Neverwinter Nights
ok... the OC was terrible, but the AddOns were nice Games and some community-created Stuff is just awesome... especially if you can play it with 4 or more friends ;)

10. Vampire - Bloodlines
Great Game, great Characters, fantastic Atmosphere... but buggy as hell and horrible rushed at the end.

*sigh* I haven't played my top 4 Games in years because they are either Dos or Amiga-Games... (Save vs. Nostalgia failed ^^).

[Lucky Day]

1. Ultima III - Leagues ahead of any computer game of its time.
2. Ultima IV - Compeltely changed RPG
3. Wizardry I - see 1
4. Baldur's Gate 2
5. Icewind Dale
6. Fallout 2
7. Wizardy 8
8. Dark Heart of Uukrul
9. Might and Magic 2
10. Wizardy IV
11. Neverwinter Nights
12. Bard's Tale I

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Some friends of mine DEFINITIVELY put Ambermoon & Amberstar into that list, games I've never played.

I'll post mine later.

[Fenris]

Hehe... I would place them at Number 11 (Amberstar) and 12... and Albion Number 13... *sigh* the golden Days of german CRPGs...

[HiddenX]

I am cheating a bit, because I simply played to many rpgs over time:

1) Planescape Torment
this one is like a novel with wonderful characters
2) Wizardry 6, 7, 8
the best turn based combat party rpg triology ever
3) Albion
perfect blend of Wizardry and Ultima - superb story
4) Ultima 7 - all parts & Ultima Underworld 1+2
the Grandfather of all living worlds
5) Might & Magic 2-7
great turn based series, with many riddles and puzzles
6) Fallout 1+2
this game is simply fun - great style
7) Gothic 1, 2 NOTR
8) Baldur's Gate 2 + Throne of Baal
Re-Invention of the good old "Gold Box Games"
9) Jagged Alliance 1, Deadly Games, 2 + Deidranna Lives / Urban Chaos / Wildfire
the very best strategy combat rpg
10) System Shock 1+2
the best rpg with all other humans dead :)

Honorable Mentions:
Betrayal at Krondor, Genforge1-3, Avernum(=Exile)1-4, Vampire - the Masquerade, NWN 1+2, Nordland triology, Evil Islands, Daggerfall, KOTOR 1, Dungeon Master 1+2, Ambermoon, Amberstar, Icewind Dale, Deus Ex, Bards Tale 2, Darklands, Wasteland ...

I have to stop ...

[JDR13]

[QUOTE=Maylander;9545]

6. Gothic 3 - Yes indeed, you find it on my top ten, despite all the bugs. Once you get through it a couple of times you'll find that it has strong points no other game to date has(at least not in full 3D).
QUOTE]

You've already finished Gothic 3 multiple times!?!

Must be nice to have that much free time.

[Naked_Lunch]

Keep in mind it's been out for a while in Europe so they've gotten bonus time to complete it.

[Corwin]

Maylander has completed it 4 times!! That amazes me, as I've been playing for weeks and am still only about halfway through!!

[JDR13]

Keep in mind it's been out for a while in Europe so they've gotten bonus time to complete it.

It's only been out for a month + a few days in Europe. That still isn't very long for a game a big as Gothic 3. Not when you're talking about playing it 4 times!!

Damn I'm jealous! I'm still waiting for the next patch and another gig of RAM.

[nameless hero]

For me its REAL TIME COMBAT RPG or NOTHING. I found that I just cant play turn based games or anything similar - Too boring.

1. Gothic 1
2. Gothic 2
3. NOTR
4. Gothic 3 (Bugs aside)
5. Severance: Blade of Darkness
6. Oblivion
7. Diablo 2
8. Die by the Sword
9. Mount and Blade
10. Morrowind

...I feel as though I missed something thought...

[JDR13]

Anyone who doesn't mention the System Shock series obviously hasn't experienced it.

[nameless hero]

True, I never played System Shock. I cannot find it in stores though, nor in ebay.:'(

[Corwin]

The original is available from Underdogs and will work with Dosbox!!

[Naked_Lunch]

Neither System Shocks are RPGs, really. Fucking great games, just not RPGs.
For me its REAL TIME COMBAT RPG or NOTHING. I found that I just cant play turn based games or anything similar - Too boring.
It's people like you that killed my children.

[Jaz]

My top ten, in no particular order:

1) Lands of Lore 1, 2 and 3: LoL 1 was the first CRPG that held my interest long enough to actually finish it, Lol 2 had Luther (MAJOR SQUEEAGE!!!!), and LoL3 let you finish the unfinished business from LoL 1, though in the form of a different character. I love it when a plan comes together *chews on cigar*.
2) System Shock 1- The first game that had me sit on the dge of my seat. I hated shodan with a passion. SS2 never really did that for me.
3) Daggerfall and Morrowind: My favorite Elder Scrolls CRPGs. Daggerfall was so vast I was overwhelmed back then, and my first time through took me over 7 months. Morrowind with expansions held my interest for more than 1 1/2 years.
4) Gothic 1 and 2: I loved Gothic 1 because of its dense and gritty atmosphere. G2 was more polished, but had lost a little of the charm for me, but when they had Thorus appear in the expansion... I might buy G3 just because of him.
5) Diablo 2: Great atmosphere, great FMVs. Tyrael and Tal Rasha...
6) Jagged Alliance 2: The best NPC s, and the best NPC interaction ever. And Deirdranna rules.
7) Planescape Torment: This game did the atmosphere trick again. While I can't stand generic High Fantasy settings like AD&D's Forgotten Realms, Planescape always was a favorite setting of mine. Plus, good story, and you could get through the game with little combat (great plus IMO).
8) Arx Fatalis: The guards! The darkness! The music! In short, I liked the ambience, looks and premises of the game. And I loved the way magic was handled.
9) Jade Empire: The perfect game for a Wire Fu affictionado. Beautiful game, very entertaining (though linear), and great romance options.
10) Deus Ex 1: The ending(s) of this game made me cower in awe. DX 2 was nice, but it didn't make me feel small and humble.

Honorable mentions go to Final Fantasy 6, 7 and 8, KotOR 1 and 2, Wild Arms 1, Might and Magic 6 and 9, Arena and Oblivion (Hieronymus Lex - SQUEEEE!).

Some games just bored me for some reason or other, like BG 1 and 2, NWN 1 and Dungeon Siege, for example. Others were too difficult for a habitual non-reader of manuals (Dungeon Master 2, for example).

[Danicek]

I'm playing RPGs since 2000 or bit earlier so my list may include only games from that period. Also I will put here only the top three, I don't like long lists.

1. Wizardry VIII
2. Diablo II (don't throw stones at me please, this is my personal list) :]
3. Gothic 1

[Arma]

1 - Geneforge 1/2/3 - best games I ever played. Fantastic setting, great story and character development. The amount of choises and endings avaible are truly amazing
2 - Fire Emblem/Fire Emblem Sacred Stones - Did I mention I adore TBS combat? With good story and interesting characters? Nevermind that these are for the GBA ...
3 - Arcanum - though it has its own problems, I still admire the complexity of the world, story, character system, and so on.
4 - Temple of Elemental Evil - an underdog, but the combat ... I'm in love with this game on combat alone
5 - Diablo 2 - again, no pun intended, but I really liked the game. Made item hunting a blast, besides it was good for multiplayer
6 - Fallout - a really well though out game. Besides, probably the best RPG in a non-fantasy setting, and that is saying something.
7 - Baldur's Gate 2 - though I've said a few harsh words about it, recently I've rethough my standing on the game. The story was indeed compelling and emerging. The characters were memorable, a thing I cannot say for more recent RPGs
8 - Avernum 1,2,3,4 - With fun turn based combat, non-linear gameplay, and well thought and really developed setting setting the games are a blast
9 - Planescape Torment - while I find many flaws in the game, the deviation from the typical fantasy setting is worth the place on my list
10 - Gothic - probably the only RPG with third person view that I like. Story was nice, the setting good.

[Maylander]

I have completed it four times yes. Takes me roughly 3-4 days to get through it once, but I'm a powergamer and never spend any "wasted"(depends on POV, obviously) time in games. It took me half the time to complete Oblivions main quest and all guilds.

As I both have a job and studies I don't really have a lot of spare time, but I go all-out during weekends and come to work on Monday more tired than when I went home on Friday, hehe. Also, I never do anything but work, studies and computer games. Of course, I would most likely get a nervous breakdown if I kept going on like this, but it only happens during certain periods(Gothic3 and NWN2 are the only two games for years) :)

[JemyM]

The problem with the really old games was that they felt more like strategic combat games than roleplaying games. The character statistics, monsterkilling, new weapons etc was there, but the adventure/story/choices was often missing.

[Naked_Lunch]

The character statistics, monsterkilling, new weapons etc was there, but the adventure/story/choices was often missing.
Indeed, but they are a few exceptions. Ultima, Magic Candle, Darklands, etc.

[Corwin]

Could you be more specific about which games you're thinking of?

[txa1265]

I have a hard time with these lists since I only really got heavily involved with RPG's in 2003 when I got the Mac version of NWN when it was released ...

[Korplem]

Throws a rock in the general direction of Danicek. :p

[Jaz]

*catches rock and throws it back*
There's no need to apologize for liking Diablo.

[MonGoliat]

I have the same problem as "txa1265".

I havnt played RPG's that long so havent got that much experience.

Ive played thise games and I rank them it aprocimetly this order:
Gothic 1
Gothic 2
Gothic 3
Neverwinter Nights 2
Oblivion
Morrowind

[txa1265]

I have the same problem as "txa1265".

I havnt played RPG's that long so havent got that much experience.

I have played plenty, but I don't feel that I have given the older games the same fairness of experience as newer ones - I mean, I have Might & Magic, Wizardry and Ultima games all as 'collections' ... for other genres that I *have* played for the many years I've been gaming, I know that playing a 15 year old game now is different than having played it when it was released .

[MonGoliat]

okey...
I misunderstood...
But Mike? what game could you advise me to try? (after knowing I love the Gothic games) =p

[txa1265]

okey...
I misunderstood...
But Mike? what game could you advise me to try? (after knowing I love the Gothic games) =p

I love Deus Ex and System Shock 2 and Vampire Bloodlines, and based on everyone else's lists, so do they. Each is action-heavy but full of other very interesting things.

(Oh, and don't listen to Jaz, Deus Ex 2 *is* that bad ;) )

[Cm]

My list would be very similar to all the rest. MonGoliat you might want to grab NWN1 the diamond edition. I think you'll find it fairly good fun, and the mods out for it will keep you busy for days. It should be cheap to buy now.

[MonGoliat]

Thanks... =)

[Zaleukos]

For replay value Morrowind beats everything else (provided you have the discipline to not join every faction during every playthrough), with BG 2 a distant second. For story and NPCs Gothic 1+2 win hands down. For multiplayer I recommend Icewind Dale, Baldurs Gate, and NWN.

My top 10 would be:
Gothic 2, Gothic 1, Morrowind, Baldurs Gate II, Baldurs Gate, Gothic 3, Arcanum, Darklands, Daggerfall (which sadly aged terribly bad and is unplayable today), SSI Goldbox series (particularly Pool of Radiance which is the only one to feel remotely non-linear, and the Krynn series).

Other good ones are:
I enjoyed Realms of Arkania 1: Blade of Destiny, Demons Winter, and the Ultima Underworlds as well. NWN1 was only really fun in MP.

Of this years releases I havent tried NWN2, enjoyed Gothic 3 in spite of the bugs, and hated Oblivion...

[Jaz]

(Oh, and don't listen to Jaz, Deus Ex 2 *is* that bad )
It's not one of my favorite games ^_^. It was merely nice. Just like System Shock 2. No, I don't love that one, either.

@Zaleukos: I replayed Daggerfall last year and played Arena for the first time this year, and I thoroughly enjoyed both (despite all those newer, shinier and more detailed games). I take it Mike alluded to shooters when he said
I know that playing a 15 year old game now is different than having played it when it was released ..
I think it depends on personal preferences. For example, I played Catacombs Apocalypse for the first time in 2006. It's from the early nineties, I played the precursor games back then, and I had far more fun playing it in 2006 than I had playing, say, Doom 3 or Halflife 2.
When writing down my favorite CRPG list I felt the desire to replay the LoL games. I need a Win98 comp *badly*.

[txa1265]

It's not one of my favorite games ^_^. It was merely nice. Just like System Shock 2. No, I don't love that one, either.

It is just that DX: IW would appear on a different list for me ... "10 Most Hated Games of All Time" ...

[Zaleukos]

I have played plenty, but I don't feel that I have given the older games the same fairness of experience as newer ones - I mean, I have Might & Magic, Wizardry and Ultima games all as 'collections' ... for other genres that I *have* played for the many years I've been gaming, I know that playing a 15 year old game now is different than having played it when it was released .

Games are like wine. Ones with a clear UI and clever presentation can age graciously, while those relying on state of the art graphics tend to not. I still find the Goldbox games or Darklands playable due to the clean menu-driven interface, while Eye of the Beholder and the Darksun games that looked much better upon release are absolutely horrid to play. Not to mention Ultima Underworld that was way ahead of its time upon release.

A mouse-driven interface and interactive graphics at a low resolution is a bitch and very hard to get back to. Heck, even going back to Baldurs gate 1 and 640x480 is painful...


@Zaleukos: I replayed Daggerfall last year and played Arena for the first time this year, and I thoroughly enjoyed both (despite all those newer, shinier and more detailed games). I take it Mike alluded to shooters when he said


I've had problems running Daggerfall properly on anything faster than a 90MHz Pentium I. While it starts up nicely there is a bug that sometimes (in my case pretty often) makes it impossible to pick up quest items off the ground when running on a "fast" CPU. The randomly generated dungeons (that sometiems were impossible to finish) and the rather limited presentation of all the factional intrigue that was hidden somewhere in the code were also big minuses.

But if you look at the concepts in the game, a huge game world with tonnes of factions that like/dislike each other, branching within quests, skill based character progression (not optimally implemented in the TES games, but I still like the concept) Daggerfall could have been THE "Elite with swords" RPG. I loved the game back in 95-96. Imagine what smarter randomization (just using some sort of pathfinder to check that all quest locations within a dungeon are reachable) and a transparent presentation of in-game politics could have done to the game! :)

[bjon045]

1. Wizardry 6 (best party based dungeon crawl ever IMO)
2. Ultima 7/7.2 (best world and characters/npcs in any cRPG)
3. Fallout2
4. Planescape Torment (best story)
5. Baldurs Gate 2+TOB (truely epic)
6. Gothic 2 (best action cRPG)
7. Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny (the first and by far the best in the series)
8. Ravenloft: The stone prophet (excellent dungeons and epic story)
9. Jagged Alliance 2
10. Secret of the Silver Blades (best dungeons in any gold box game)

[Lintra]

My list is ones that I really enjoyed when I played them ... some have not really withstood the test of time, and some had little or no replay value, and some I never finished! That said, here is my list (in no particular order):

1. Might and Magic 6.
2. Ultima 5
3. Anvil of Dawn
4. Darklands.
5. Fallout
6. Gothic 1
7. Wizardy 8
8. DragonWars
9. Arcanum
10. Daggerfall/Morrowind (can't keep them straight in my head!).

And there are many that did not make the list today, but might've yesterday, and might if I did this list tomorrow: Gothic 2, Planescape: Torment, M&M 7, Ultima 6, KotOR 1, NWN 1, (sooo many hours ... it had to be good, no?), Diablo (no rock throwing!!), and a few others that have slipped my mind right now.

[makri]

Most of these I've finished more than twice. Here we go:

1. Planescape: Torment
2. Gothic 1
3. Fallout 2
4. Fallout 1
5. Gothic 2
6. Eye of the Beholder I
7. Ultima Underworld
9. Ultima VII
10. Eye of the Beholder II

EoBs I played on an Amiga, they were the first first person type rpgs I tried, as I missed DM. I tried U7 a while ago but it had lost lot of it's appeal. Fallouts have aged well, and they hold the personal record for most completed replays.

I just noticed that G3 is out. Seems to have a bit mixed reviews. We'll see if it makes my list :)

[Nukester]

Not really in any particular order

Gothic I
Magic Candle I
Ultima 7
Betrayal at Krondor
KotOR
Daggerfall
Fallout I
Fallout 2
Vampire the Masquarade - Bloodlines
Wizardry 7 (want to love 8 sooo bad but the combat times are a bit long, as we know)

Some of my favorites, although I liked the Might and Magic series, the Gold Box games, Ultima Underworlds, Anvil of DAwn, Realms of Arkania series, Lands of Lore, etc.......Ive been playing for a long time. Its hard to choose :)

[JDR13]

Jaz,
I want to smack you for comparing DX:IW and System Shock 2! System Shock 2 was incredible, even if some SS1 fans liked the first one better. Deus EX IW on the other hand, was hated by about 90% of Deus EX fans.

Just kidding about the smack of course:)

[magerette]

I love these lists, and someday I'd also like to see everybody's "Ten Most Hated."

I also started playing in the late nineties and missed a lot of the old games. But I did manage to hit many of the classics after that--I'm only listing games I finished:

1. Icewind Dale series--liked them better than BG for the simple reason that I rolled the entire party and just got down to business. Linear but very good at what they did. Probably would not rate them so high if I hadn't slogged thru Baldur's Gate hating Imoen and Jaheira.

2. Might & Magic 6 & 7--again, a hand-picked party, lots of diverse questing and exploring, and a nice magic system.

3. Planescape:Torment--for all the usual reasons.

4. Arcanum--really an original take on the genre, and very involving. My elf-girl was vividly real to me by the end, and none of the joinable NPCs was overly irritating.

5.Temple of Elemental Evil--the best turn-based combat, and most disturbing frogs.

6.Gothic-again, an original take, a game with its own feel, and a huge and sometimes unforgiving world. It was a true example of role-playing for me, a female, as at the end I really had stopped thinking as one, and cooked up my lonely fried meat while sharpening my sword and wondering if I would make it to the next town without once washing the frying pan or wondering what to wear.

7.Evil Islands-this was a very old school little game and had a few tweaks that made it memorable, like crafting your own items--and it was damn hard!

8. Baldurs Gate II_Shadows of Amn & Throne of Baal--a classic, and much as I dislike a lot of the biowarianisms(find four pieces of the artifact and return them to the judge in the main square, while listening to your NPC's complain or fight with each other, etc,etc) this was a well-crafted end to the series and had a little bit of everything.

9.Diablo II:Lord of Destruction--just too much candy, and I don't really think of it as a true rpg, but after you've played through Hell difficulty, the world is a different and better place.

10.I would like to put Wizardry 8 here, but I have not to date finished it. I intend to try again someday tho--this was a game that really made today's emphasis on graphics look silly, because the graphics were at the pixel-counting levl, yet you couldn't stop playing even though death seemed to occur with monotonous regularity.

Honorable mention goes to Kult(Heretic Kingdoms), and Darkstone(more an action title, but again a game-over-graphics number)

[Jaz]

@JDR13: Just go ahead and try <_< .

Kidding aside, for me, both were 'meh' games. SS2 was an okay game, but did not get to me like SS1 did - the problem of many sequels. I wasn't scared once, but the game made me smile when I played the 'SS1 remembrance sequence', so it wasn't a real letdown.
Unfortunately, this sequence is near the end of the game... like HL 2 - when I finally started to have fun, the game was over. Which is about everybody's fault but Barney's (Barney was and still is the best, and yes, I played and liked Blue Shift).

I found DXIW quite entertaining, but unlike DX 1, it wasn't awesome... just okay. Both DX games made you make your choice in the last few minutes so you could see all endings without replaying it IIRC - not a smart decision in my opinion.

Now I'll go over to OT to make a '10 most hated games' list... :D.

[Corwin]

If you discount the graphics, the original SS was a much better game than SS2; I struggled to finish the second, but have played the original twice!!

[txa1265]

... not really in any particular order ...
1. NWN - the reason I am here today can be traced to NWN. After not playing many RPG's in the 'Golden Era', and then really swearing off them after hating Diablo ... I was waiting for KoTOR and someone said that NWN would be a good way to 'prep' for KoTOR. But something happened - I completely fell in love with NWN. Still love it today, recentltly playing the newest Premium mods ...
2. KotOR - if NWN was my road to RPG-love, then KotOR was the city I planned to visit. And it was well worth it - great story and integration of the Star Wars universe in a completely new way.
3. Gothic 2 - on the UseNet RPG group, people said that if I loved KotOR & NWN I owed it to myself to track down G2 and play it. I got it from eBay and loved it ... then bought the 'Gold' version last year when it was released, and it was pure magic! Not just great by itself, but also opened me to action-RPG's, a door that had been slammed shut and locked by Diablo.
4. Baldur's Gate 2 - the pacing took me a bit - I got it in late '03 - but once I got myself into it I was hooked! It was my first 'classic' game, and the one I go back to again and again!
5. Divine Divinity - I love the story and music and characters and ... well, just about everything. Proves that action-RPG doesn't have to mean mindless hack 'n' slash.
6. PlaneScape Torment - like everyone says, THE STORY! This is another one that I attempted before I was ready for the pacing ... glad I persevered.
7. Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines - one of my all time faves; never had a real problem with bugs, loved the characters, the dialogue and just the way the atmosphere OOZED out of the screen!
8. Ultima IV - hard to choose, but this one hooked me in pretty well (as did #5). This is one that transcends the ages to remain a classic.
9. Wizardry VII - I played a bit of #1 back in the early 80's in my dorm, but never got hooked. Got the 'Collection' a couple of years ago and this was the one that I really fell for.
10. Fallout 2 - I had a hard time getting into this one at first as well ... but again, it was a great game that was worth the effort.
11. Arcanum - another fantastic Troika game ... story, music, setting ... all gems.

[Moriendor]

There ya go...

1) Gothic
2) Gothic II Gold
3) Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny
4) Realms of Arkania: Star Trail
5) Realms of Arkania: Shadows over Riva
6) Might & Magic VII
7) Gothic III
8) Deus Ex
9) Oblivion
10) Divinity

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Personally, I came very late into gaming (middle 90s and the turn of the Millennium, when I got my new PC I'm still working with). So I missed most classics. Some of them I found on flea markets, though.

No order :

- my overall favourites are all three games of the "Realms of Arcania" trilogy, and of these three I like the middle game most : Startrail. The game music plays a huge part in putting it onto the top of my list.

- PS:T is another very good game, but I didn't like the overall environment too much : too morbide, spooky and dark for my own taste. Why must RPGs always gbe so dark as if they were invented by Gothic (not the RPG here) fans ?

- The only example of a colourful RPG I know is "Technomage". I don't think you might know it. I just like it, because it is so colourful. An optical delight ! so to say. :D ;)

- Gothic I. Definitively. After Zanzarah it is the most immersive 3D game I have every played. I never played Gothic II yet.

- Baldur's Gate. Nice game, although a bit too much combat for my taste.

- Wizardry 8. Ah ! What a game ! SO MUCH/MANY details I don't believe we'll see a game like this EVER again ! The most detailed game I've ever witnessed ! And I don't mean the environment, I mean just everything. The way to talk to NPCs, for example.
But too much combat. It bored me too much.

- Jagged Alliance. Interesting concept.

That's all I think. I've never played older and newer games than that. I cannot play newer games, because my PCs already too old, and I don't have the money for a new one. So I must wait.

[bpstrat]

It's so hard to pick my 10 favorite RPGs. I took the challenge and listed the games in chronological order. I tried not to pick any games from the last few years, but ones that stood the test of time, at least in my mind.

Ultima IV & V (Origin, 1985 & 1988) These are some of the games that started me on CRPGs. They had great stories, but most importantly they allowed you to explore their huge game worlds. And don't forget the music!

Phantasie III: The Wrath of Nikademus (SSI, 1987) The culmination of the oft-forgotten Phantasie series. It had a cool, linear story, great graphics (on the Atari ST) and fun combat where you could lose arms, legs, and heads.

Dungeon Master & Chaos Strikes Back (FTL, 1987 & 1988) Amazing! Real time dungeon crawling almost 20 years ago.

Demon's Winter (SSI, 1988) This game looked dated when it first came out, but the combat and character systems were very detailed. Plus the world was so overwhelming large!

Gold Box Games (SSI, 1998 - 1992) I'm sure you know all about these.

Final Fantasy VI (Squaresoft, 1994) The first and best Japanese RPG that I've ever played. The story and multiple characters are very memorable. Truly an epic game.

Diablo (Blizzard, 1996) Say what you want, call it a mindless clickfest or whatever, but this game was and still is loads of fun.

Baldur's Gate I & II (Bioware, 1998 & 2000) Simply great games.

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (Bethesda, 2002) All I need to say is one word: Freedom.

The Temple of Elemental Evil (Troika, 2003) I'm not sure why this never caught on more. It's like the BG games with tactical combat!

[JDR13]

Curious about those Realms of Arkania games that a lot of you are mentioning. I've heard of them but never played any. Does anyone know if they'll run on WindowsXP? Are they abandonware?

Surprised to see KOTOR on so many list. I thought it was a very average game.

[Fenris]

*Fanboy-Mode on*
The Northland-triology is one of the best RPG-Series. I doubt that they will run on Windows XP (didn't when I tried it some years ago...) but should work with Dosbox. Part One and Two are Abandonware:

http://www.abandonia.com/games/en/104/RealmsofArkaniaBladeofDestiny.htm

http://www.abandonia.com/games/102/download/RealmsofArkaniaStarTrail.htm

Part three is *Saving Throw against Nostalgia - Success* not that great ^^.

[Corwin]

There's a new game from the same setting due late next year. We're covering it here, so stay tuned for updates as they come to hand!!

[Zaleukos]

Curious about those Realms of Arkania games that a lot of you are mentioning. I've heard of them but never played any. Does anyone know if they'll run on WindowsXP? Are they abandonware?

Surprised to see KOTOR on so many list. I thought it was a very average game.

You have to learn to like them. The setting (a quasi-viking land with orcs, elves, and dwarves) is cool, and the skill and magic system is very detailed as it seems to be a faithful adaptation of a German PnP game. There are a lot of realism features (you have to eat and drink, and your weapons break) that can get annoying or add to the experience depending on your taste. You can do cool things like poison weapons, make poisons of your own, etc.

The cons are that the direct adaptation of the PnP skills and spells mean that about 70% of the skills and spells arent ever used in the game. At the same time some skills and spells are NEEDED to get past certain points in the games, and since XP mainly is awarded for quests and the FIRST encounter with various monster types it is capped in practice, meaning that you cant level up some more to compensate for not choosing an essential spell in the past:( The reality features can get annoying and dont always make sense, for instance a stackable ingredient needed for non-stackable healing potions have a healing power that is in the same order of magnitude as the potion. Weapons breaking almost killed the second game of the series for me, as the dungeons are located very far from the smiths that can repair your weapons.

Still I liked the first game (Blade of Destiny) a lot. It is set in a world with lots of towns and dungeons that you could roam around in a manner that felt fairly free form (even if it wasnt), giving an illusion of open-endedness similar to the first Pool of Radiance.

The second game (Star Trail) has a better story but only a few towns and dungeons (about five of each) that are very far between. Weapons breaking made it a drag for me to play. And there are two instances where you are taken prisoner and lose ALL your equipment if you are careless, thats a pretty major bummer.

Didnt like nor finish "Shadows over Riva" which is the third game. It is mostly set around the city of Riva and has a more modern (primitive grid-less a la a high-resolution Arena) movement system in that city.

Also had problems exporting my chars between the first two games, ended up with the "babyface bug" and the patch found online couldnt fix that for me.

But I am looking forward to number four...

[Maylander]

Ironically Shadows over Riva was the only one I liked, hehe.:)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I doubt that they will run on Windows XP (didn't when I tried it some years ago...) but should work with Dosbox. Part One and Two are Abandonware:

Indeed they do run with DOSBOX !

The Larian Forum has a very long German-language thread about it ... If you're there, take a look at the RPG Chat (German) and search for the word "Nordlandtrilogie". Since almost all of us there are capable of the English language, you can ask there for help.

By the way, the English versions of the games seem to have some significant changes in the rule set, especially the number of needed experience points for leveling up, seemingly to make the games more appealing to gamers used to the AD&D rule set.

[NFLed]

I don't enjoy playing most of the old games. I enjoyed them a lot in their time but without modern conveniences like automap or easy to use inventory system they drop off my all time favorites. For example, MM3 was near the top for me for many years but now it's not close.

This isn't necessarily in order (especially the top 3)

* Baldur's Gate 2 (quintessential)
* Planescape Torment (amazing and unique)
* Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 1 (great)

* Neverwinter Nights 2 (updated quintessential)
* Jade Empire (coming soon to PC so this counts here)
* Wizardry 8 (great)

* Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 (very good)
* Neverwinter Nights (considering all the fan-made modules)
* Oblivion (best of its class)
* Baldur's Gate 1 (original quintessential)
* Ultima V Lazarus project (I know that's 11 on this list but I couldn't leave this out)

Old games which would be on the list if not for the interface/etc.

* Wizardry 7 (would top the above list if not an older game)
* Wizardry 6 (still holds up)
* Might & Magic 3 (lost its luster, great for its day)
* Lands of Lore 1 (very enjoyable)
* Eye of the Beholder 2 (very well done)

I'm probably leaving off one or two which I'm not remembering at the moment.

[aboyd]

The problem with your list, is that it only contains games released in the last few years!!

I agree with Gokyabgu's response: 2000 & 2001 was a great time for RPGs, so that era is going to be represented heavily in many people's lists, even if they've been playing for decades.

I personally cannot stand any of the old games that are first person, WASD, grid-based. I dutifully mapped out each 10' block, but I didn't think that was the height of fun. And now that I'm older, I don't have my old hand-drawn maps, and I take no pleasure in repeating such a painstaking process.

However, as a bow to you, if I were able to include console games in the CRPG category, I'd include one game from maybe 2 decades ago that still holds up well... in fact I'm replaying it now.

10. Crystalis, for the NES. The crappy graphics were enchanting enough to keep me happy. The dialogue was decent, considering it was limited to the resolution of a TV screen. The loot & power ups were fun. The story was satisfying.

9. FATE. Diablo clone, but very fun. Better than Dungeon Seige. Better than Sacred (well, Sacred was actually very good as a hack & slash, but I spent far more time playing FATE, so fun-wise, I guess I naturally gravitated to FATE, so it wins).

8. Diablo 1. My first online multiplayer RPG experience. Also, my awakening as to how strategy could be done in hack & slash CRPGs. I recall dying at a mob of poison spitters. Then I watched, dead, while some guy in another country tried to save my corpse. His strategy was eye-opening.

7. Diablo 2. I still play this, now with both my kids, who are almost 5 & 9. Aside from the graphics of ritualistic killings, it's a great kids-first-RPG, as it's easy to pick up, good UI, and sensible system.

6. Vampire: Bloodlines. The Malkavian dialogues. Miss Multiple Personality. The haunted house. Some things were actually scary, some things were actually tragic. It felt like a game for grown-ups.

5. Arcanum. Good freedom, big world, good stat-based dialogue.

4. Baldur's Gate 1, with TotSC & Tutu. Someone else mentioned that they cannot stand to play any 640x480 games like BG1. But I didn't think anyone was still playing it in such an old-fashioned way. Everyone I know uses Tutu, which copies the BG1 materials over to the BG2 engine. Playing BG1 at 1280x1024 is great!

3. Baldur's Gate 2, with ToB. Still trying to convert Viconia to neutral alignment!

2. Tales Of Arterra, for NWN 1. It was "just" a set of two player-created modules. However, after years of hating NWN 1, this module turned me around. I played it and cared about the NPCs. I felt that the story -- especially the trip to the planes to rescue Persey -- was very compelling. To me, it's a full-fledged game. To me, it is NWN.

1. Planescape: Torment. I am in love with Annah, and still completely shaken over what my character did and the price it cost.

[cutterjohn]

My list in no particular order, and entire series where I feel appropriate:
Wizardry 6-8
Might & Magic 6 & 7
Ultima 4-7
SSI Gold Box AD&D games: Pool of Radiance, 1st Treasure of the Savage Frontier game
Fallout 1 & 2
Darklands
Realms of Arkania 1 & 2
Magic Candle series
Wasteland
Bard's Tale I - III & Dragon Wars

[GothicGothicness]

Did any else notice it said C-RPGS? IMHO I don't think all of the games fits... at least I've not inculded any console titles in my list... otherwise it'd look very different. Also this is the list on the top of my head I am sure I've forgotten some great old C64 stuff, amiga stuff...... and PC games.. but it'll have only great games :)

1. Ultima 7 - Brilliance! still unsurpassed.
2. BaK - I love this game
3. Wizardry 8 - In some ways this deservers number one, it lasts forever, and the gameplay mechanics, character development and combat is fantastic.
4. Gothic
5. Gothic 2
6. Anachronox - some poor gameplay mechanics, but some parts of this game is so brilliant and funny, I've never laughed so much!
7. MM6 - Best MM game
8. Planescape Torment - I hated all the filler quests, but some parts of this game was great... though it was very uneven.
9. Wizardry 7 - Too much combat and many problems... but still has the wizardry brilliance.
10. Albion - Like someone else pointed out, great game!

I'd never add the BG games, and KOTOR is in the top 10 worst RPG, Oblivion is not even anywhere close to enter either, nor is any Diablo game. I know people will complain about this :D but I think that way so just disregard my list if you think it makes my opinions worthless.

[dteowner]

What made you pick MM6 over MM7? While MM6 had better dungeons, the complex character development introduced in MM7 put it ahead in my book. Not saying you're wrong, just curious what made the difference to you.

[GothicGothicness]

Excellent question I was thinking about putting this in the comments, Like you said MM6 had better dungeons, the temple full of skeletons was really a classic, finally I almost started to dream about skeletons that is just how many they were hehe! I hate what happens towards the very end though, with all the modern stuff.

I kind of liked MM7 with the grandmaster, the split possibility in the story and the card game.... the character system was more complex too! But this game was easy, it doesn't matter if the character development system is good, if the dungeons are rather small and easy to complete since you don't really need to try and make the best of your characters. Adding grandmaster was a great idea though! But in the end there was just that "something" missing for me in MM7 that MM6 had which made me enjoy it more.

[booyah_boy]

Hmmm, I'll keep this short and just list them (in no particular order):

Arx Fatalis
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
Evil Islands: Curse of the Lost Soul
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
Deus Ex
System Shock 2
Fallout 2
Kult: Heretic Kingdoms
Rage of Mages (just because)

[Corwin]

GG, I've played and enjoyed all the games on your list except the last one-Albion, which I've not heard of. Could you post a link or some details about the game, since your tastes seem to reflect mine!!

[GothicGothicness]

It is kind of an old game, but it has some really great moments! A pity bluebyte went the way as so many other great developers, well at least the dev team of Albion... look like BlueByte is making a combeback with settlers 2 gold :( It has a 2d view when you walk around and a 3d view inside the dungeons, you can see the monsters, but when you encounter them there'll be turn-based combat on a grid! The world of Albion is very rich... though the graphics is of course ancient by now.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/albion

BTW Corwin when will you post your list, I've been waiting for it!

[HiddenX]

Albion at the Underdogs:

http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=35

[20mithrandir]

Hi there!

Is it just me or do your top 10 lists look very different at each try too? I have to agree with the thread starter, that not all of the glorified "good old games" were actually that great. So there're a few newer titles (post mid-90s) on my list too...

1) Planescape: Torment
So many great games but if we need to pick only one, it would definitely be PST for me. It's maybe the only game that shows, not all using the Infinity engine are crap ; - ) It seems that "story" and "originality" must not be neglected in any game (especially in RPGs).

2) Fallout
I'm gonna mention only the first game, because there's not a lot of space on a top 10 list. Fallout was also a very unique game with decent game mechanics. Maybe the first game ever, that made me "feel" that my actions and decisions really take effect.

3) Realms of Arkania II - Startail
That's the game I played the most. It was the first ever bought game and I cannot count my visits anymore. Of course, the first game (Blade of Destiny) was a good one too and the third and last Dark Eye game (Shadows over Riva) was way better than many reviews stated. In Startail there's so much humour, it remembers me of games like Monkey Island in some ways.

4) Vampire The Masquarade: Bloodlines
Really crappy use of the Source Engine with lots of bugs and very poor performance. But what counts is the "believable" setting. All of the NPCs and quests are so unique and well-thought. For me it's the best Troika game (Arcanum was really good too and Greyhawk lacked only some polishing, but there's only 10 games to mention).

5) Gothic 2
A lot of german fans prefer the first Gothic game. I think that the second one had all good things of the previous one PLUS more of everything (bigger gameworld, more npcs, quests, items). Of course, the dragon story lacks a bit but Gothic stays the only modern game series where the whole society of the world is so believably integrated in the gameplay. You just have to mention one of the Gothics here.

6) Wizardry 8
A lot of fans do prefer the older Wizardry games (especially Crusaders of the Dark Savant) but in my opinion SirTech vanished with one of the best games ever made. The RPG system is just perfect and very diversified. The turn based combat system is often called the weak spot, but I like it very much. Story, Quests, everything's just fine.

7) Might and Magic: World of Xeen
Actually those are two games, but I really liked the combination of MMIV and V. I think that later games (VI and VII were really good ones too) just lack the improvements. If you know one of them, you know all. I even tried MMIX this year - but I could not force me to play more than an hour or so. IV and V that definitely were the hightlights of the series.

8) Dungeon Master 2
For years I was very busy with this one. Yes, I know the first Dungeon Master game as well. I just like DM2 more. The rune system seems to have inspired games like Arx Fatalis and Black & White. Interesting setting with cool monsters and a lot of bad weather ; - )

9) Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean
Nobody will know this game. I played it on the GameCube. Very interesting combat system and graphically nice presented exotic game world.

10) Kult: Heretic Kingdoms
It's too short, has a very simplified character developing system and is technically not up-to-date. But I just love this one. Very unique story with interesting multiple endings.

Hm... No Ultima game on my list. But if it had to be one, it would've been Ultima VII ; - ) If I would count games like Deus Ex as real RPG, it would be somewhere near place 1 on the list ; - )

So many games not mentioned. Should I have taken one of the "Eye of the Beholder" games into the top 10? Or maybe "Anachronox" (more an adventure game...), "Anito", "Prince of Qin", "Darkstone" (more hack 'n slash), ... hitlists suck!

[Corwin]

GG, I would have severe difficulty listing only 10 games, even if I were allowed to use series as one game!! :)

[GothicGothicness]

It was difficult for me to, so I didn't think too much and took the ten top games that came to my mind... it doesn't have to be the completely accurate and best list ever.. just as good as possible. It'd be really interesting to see!

[Maylander]

Listing series, and the favourite of each serie, as a list instead of every game does indeed make it easier. A good idea by Mithrandir.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Just to add : In the development of Albion developers of Ambermoon and Amberstar were also included.

I regard Albion as unique because of its different, very well developed cultures.

[Smorri]

Here's a quick list, mostly off the top of my head. But I doubt much would change with further thought. Just based on my favorites...

1) Darklands - Depth, atmosphere and a real sense of freedom. The best of the best.
2) Eye of the Beholder 1 & 2 - Scared the crap out of me, I was picking up arrows when the spider sounds started getting really loud... Nothing in front of me... Nothing to the left or right... THAT MEANS ITS BEHIND ME!!!
3) Prince of Qin - Great story, only crafting system I ever cared about. Lots of fun, but not for everyone.
4) Gothic - For all the reasons mentioned by others.
5) Ultima Underworld 1 & 2 - For the first time I really felt I was actually in a dungeon.
6) Dark Sun 1 & 2 - Great fun.
7) The Summoning (SSI) - Again, lots of fun.
8) Jagged Alliance - Great combat system.
9) Spelljammer - Sorry, but I loved the combat in this game.
10) Nox - Not a true RPG, but tons of fun, great humor and beautiful graphics.

[Hedek]

Great thread, made me realize I never actually asked myself what I liked most plus it got me to remember so many memorable moments playing those games, thanks!

1. Fallout 2 (despite crap begining at Arroyo and Klamath, the atmosphere, the music, the sense of freedom, and oh so many memorable moments, everything that made Fallout 1 a great experience in "bigger and better"... oh give me a kiss to build a dream on... and my imagination...)
2. Fallout 1 (the game that really hooked me into video games... C64 Asteroids or Pac Man were fun but didn't turn me into a video game junkie like Fallout did)
3. Planescape: Torment (deep, strange, different, unique, all the things that sets it aside make me love it, what other game gets you to have a hilarious rude floating skull as companion!)
4. BG2 ("big", "everything an RPG can possibly have", your classic "damsel in distress", your classic plot surprise "who's really Bodhi?", your classic unforgettable quotes "understand this as you die, ever pathetic, ever fool!" by remarkably voice acted Sir Jonlet Irenicus himself, and so on... but there's just something about the story, about the atmosphere that wasn't dark, unique or special enough for me to put it above Fallout or Ps:T)
5. Kotor2 (preferred it over the first because of the darker, self-introspective story, I guess it reminded of me Fallout and Planescape: Torment)
6. Kotor1 (one of the greatest plot twist in a video game and use of the SW franchise)
7. Neverwinter Nights 2 (because i'm kind of anticipating how great of a game it will be once I'll be able to to retrospectively look at all the community developed to enhance it)
8. Arcanum (unique, deep, strange, different but not as much as Ps:T)
9. Baldur's Gate 1 (when it came out it was probably among my 3 all-time all-genre favorite games but for some reasons, 8 years later, it's not that memorable :( so I'm only putting at 9th, perhaps is it because of BG2 that out-bested it in every way ?)
10. Vampire: Bloodlines yet another superb unique game with a unique atmosphere delivered by Cain/Boyarsky/Anderson, character facial emotions had me remembering Shady Sands' village leader or Killian in Fallout 1 : the first time I ever experienced emotions on a face in a video game : they would turn to angry when you said something displeasing, it may sound stupid, but in 1997 that was something for me... don't forget everything started with Asteroids Pac Man Tetris and such, we came a long way :)

My true 10th would be JA2 but I don't really know whether it's "RPG" enough :)
I actually think my top 10 is more a matter of my favorite "atmospheres" rather than "games", with Fallout as number one atmosphere, then Planescape: Torment, then Baldur's Gate, then Kotor, then every other rather.
Kotor might be a better "game" than Ps:T but Ps:T was, beyond the game stricto sensus, a better "experience", in the end I think that's what dictates the choices in my top 10.
And I guess the fact I ran a Fallout and a Ps:T fansite make me partial towards em :)
Anyways, if I wanted just "fun", just a "great game", i'd still be playing Asteroids, Pac Man or SNes Super Mario Bros. Of all the words I can think of to describe Fallout, "fun" isn't among them, "funny" sometimes, but definitely not "fun", the begining of both was actually quite tedious. CRPGs aren't just games, they're an "intellectual experience", that is, that's how I love em :)

[GothicGothicness]

Spelljammer - Sorry, but I loved the combat in this game.


I never heard of this game? what kind of game is it? looks like it is not listed on gamespot??

[JemyM]

I cant pick and I wont judge my favorites one over another, they are all the best in their own way.

[Fenris]

I never heard of this game? what kind of game is it? looks like it is not listed on gamespot??

http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=3094

;)

[Lucas]

Heya :)

Here is my personal list, based more on the "emotional value" the games gave me:

1) Ultima Underworld II

2) Deus Ex 1

3) Bard's Tale I

4) Dungeon Master

5) Ultima IV

6) Ultima VII

7) Knights of the Old Republic 1

8) Pools of Darkness

9) System Shock 1

10) Baldur's Gate II

[GothicGothicness]

http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=3094

UUU, that one of the worst reviews I've ever seen from underdogs... no wounder I didn't hear about it!

[txa1265]

UUU, that one of the worst reviews I've ever seen from underdogs... no wounder I didn't hear about it!

I know - that one stopped me in my tracks! Normally it is much more matter-of-fact ... that was just blasting away!

[Smorri]

I know - that one stopped me in my tracks! Normally it is much more matter-of-fact ... that was just blasting away!

Ya, seems rather harsh. I think maybe I wasn't comparing it to the other SSI games, so I wasn't disapointed. Everytime I've played it, I've enjoyed it... Not that I've ever heard anyone else say that :biggrin:

[Lord Alex]

This thread really brought back some fond memories, so thanks to the original poster. I started with the Gold Box games and have played basically everything to come out since then. Here's my list:

1--BG2: Perfectly designed and perfectly executed. It is the pinnacle of the CRPG genre and the game all others strive to immitate. Bioware set the bar very high... perhaps too high for their own good, as everything they do will be compared against this game.

2--Deus Ex: Although some might scoff at it being labeled an RPG, this game (like no other before or since) tricked me into "believing" I was one bad-a$$ mofo of a cybernetic demi-god. Also, Warren Spector's writing and story rival anything ever done in gaming on any platform.

3--Planescape: Although I may have enjoyed this game as much (or more) than any other game in my top ten list, the fact that it is basically an RPG/Adventure forces me to deduct a few points when compared to choices 1 and 2.

4--Daggerfall: This is the first game I played that felt like digital crack to the point that I simply couldn't step away from the computer screen except to eat, sleep, and relieve myself. It was immersion at its quintessential finest.

5--Realms of Arkania: Star Trail: The Dark Eye games are simply brilliant, and this was the best of the bunch. Try to imagine a game with the party-based tactical combat of a Wizardry and the deep story of a Baldur's Gate. Tremendously fun and addictive game with one of the legendary Fat Man's best midi soundtracks.

5--Fallout 2: Although Fallout 1 is a more complete and compact adventure, Fallout 2 has all that icky R-rated edginess that just really lights my candle. ;)

6--Arcanum: This game is the essence of Troika: with deep role-playing, excellent story-telling, and a fully realized world that can be explored in whatever manner you see fit. Playing this game as a sword and gun wielding technologist was pure RPG bliss.

7--Icewind Dale 2: For some, this might be seen as a strange choice, but in many ways this epitomizes how to use a real-time pausable combat system. For me, a great CRPG combat system 1) begs for multiple replays, and 2) is extremely challenging without being frustrating. This game achieved this happy medium better than any game I've ever played.

8--Fallout 1: There's no need to explain why this is in my top ten. If it isn't in yours, you simply haven't played it yet, so shame on you.

9--Shadows Over Riva: Although missing the overland travel of Star Trail, this Dark Eye game still had a world of Das Schwarze Auge charm. Cheese toast anyone?

10--Pools of Darkness: Was there any gaming moment more fun than traipsing around within the god Moander's beating heart? Add to that some of the best gfx and combat ever to grace a Gold Box SSI 3.5 diskette and you've got a package that kept me busy for many, many months.

[Diocane]

Hi all!

Been reading since the DOT but posting for the first time. I'm an RPGer from the old school. Been playing since ULTIMA III(us old timers don't put the year, we name the game;) )

So here is my top ten...

1. ULTIMA VII- For all the reasons already named. And the music! There was a tune for every situation in the game. Still play and beat it once a year.

2 ULTIMA IV- The game just pulled me in. It had no end boss but the Abyss(the final dungeon for those that didn't complete it) And when you finished that you couldn't fight a boss if you wanted to!

3 Baldur's Gate 2- the game had it all. Every thing worked and a killer story to boot.

4 Gothic 2- First game since U7 that had me exploring every nook and cranny of it's game world. A great achievement.

5 Might and Magic 1- Perhaps not as notable as others in the series but it got me into it's fp style of game play and kept me hooked. To many Star Trek references if I remember correctly.

6 Gothic 3- Simply amazing. To hell with the reviewers. The game is epic, beautiful and dark. I'm about 20 hours in and loving every minute. Other than when its crashing. A real shame the state it was released in in regards to the bugs. This one will move up the list when i'm done, I'm sure...

7 Pool of Radiance- Again might not be as popular as others in the Gold box series, but I had great and memorable times clearing the city blocks. Great treasure too.

8 ULTIMA III- The one that started it all for me. Great music. Does anyone remember how long it took for a ship to appear? For the longest time I was convinced they didn't exist and there was no end to the game!

9 Morrowind- Never did beat it but it certainly gave us a great gameplay we never experienced before didn't it?

10 hmmmm Serpent Isle ULTIMA VII Part 2- This one should be in the same spot as TBG but bucket loads of redundant dialogue (especially in the Silver Seed) takes this down a few spots. Lazarus suffers from this too imho. Both games where well written but the staggering amounts of dialogue actually begin to ironically take away from the immersion. There needed to be a better balance between gameplay and conversing withs npcs.

Honourable mentions- Planescape(too morbid for me), Rings of Zilfin(you read that right), Bard Tale 3, World of Xeen, MM6, Legacy of the Ancients(you read that right) Moebius, Underworld 2, Azure Bonds among others.

Keep up the good work!

[Corwin]

Welcome and thanks for your first post. I hope there are many more to come!!

[HiddenX]

@Diocane

Rings of Zilfin
http://www.atarimagazines.com/startv2n5/ringsofzilfin.jpg
is new to me - I'll try this one.

[Lucas]

Kudos for mentioning Rings of Zilfin: it was a very interesting game. Also, maybe one of the first games introducing the concept of "Stamina" (called "fatigue" in-game, if I recall well), which diminished overtime, so you had to rest from time to time.

[Diocane]

Wow. So thats what Zilfin looked like. A real chud of a game! But you know what, I remember it being real fun, Probably doesn't belong on best of all time list. Neither does Legacy, AB or Moebius, but hey I name em as I've played em. Fatigue factor in Zilfin, you might be right about that. I remember gathering and devouring lots of mushrooms. Might have been to restore fatigue. Ah well, ancient history.

Must really try the Fallout series. They've quite a following it seems... I have Arcanum but I've never really gave it a chance. The problem is time!:)

[Sertorius]

well, its not easy...

1. Wizardry VII. The one and only.

2. Betrayal at Krondor.

3. Fallout 2.

4. Ambermoon (Albion, Amberstar).

5. Ultima VII.

6. Dark Heart of Uukrul.

7. Planescape Torment.

8. Ultima Underworld (both I and II).

9. Baldurs Gate II.

10. Dungeon Master.

The question is, did the developers forgot how to make a good RPG, or am I simpy getting older...

[Corwin]

You're simply getting older!! :biggrin: Unfortunately, the cost of producing and marketing games now prevents devs from experimenting like they used to; check out Troika to see what happens!!

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Tremendously fun and addictive game with one of the legendary Fat Man's best midi soundtracks.

Yes, really ? I wonder because I don't know the English version of the game made by SirTech, and the German version had both Midi and Audio CD (the original even consisted of TWO audio CDs because of the lot of music !), which were as far as I know both composed by Guido (Guy) Henkel and Horst Weidle, with Guido Henkel being one of the makers of PS:T.

[HiddenX]

@Alrik

Realms of Arkania: Star Trail

http://www.answers.com/topic/realms-of-arkania-star-trail

Music and Sound Effects: Guy Henkel

Additional Music: Horst Weidle

Tonebanks: The Fat Man

[Lord Alex]

Ahhh... interesting. So, it was a Guido/Fat Man collaboration... probably why it turned out so good. ;) I happily stand corrected.

[Taxen0]

Here´s the list of my favorite games that I can come to think of at the moment.

Fallout 1&2
Gothic 1-3
NeverwinterNights 1&2
Fable
System shock 2 (played it for the first time 1week ago)
Deus ex
Morrowind
Diablo 2
KotOR 1&2

[Corwin]

You really should have tried the original System Shock first. It's a classic!!

[JDR13]

System shock 2 (played it for the first time 1week ago)


Are you still peeking around corners every time you hear a strange noise?

[Delirious Nomad]

The first time I'm doing this:

1. Fallout (look into the light)
2. Fallout 2 (just bigger)
3. Arcanum (combat and graphics being not so great, everything else is top)
4. Temple Of Elemental Evil (D&D combat heaven / if you wanna talk, play Planscape Torment)
5. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (far from being flawless, but I'm only saying Vesuvius and that haunted hotel level)
6. Diablo 2 (back then it was the game to play)
7. Final Fantasy VII (culture shock)
8. Jagged Alliance 2 (where to begin ?)
9. Might & Magic 7 (bad graphics and tedious combat, but who cares ?)
10. Anachronox (just thinking of it, makes me giggle)
11. all the Ultimas and Bard Tales, I have never played, so they didn't make it in my list...and no, I'm not Tim Cain.

Games i have played, but not being in my top 10:
Every Infinity game and expansions, Wiz 8, Gothic 1+2, Deus Ex, Morrowind, K.o.t.o.R 1+2, Might & Magic 6,8,9, Neverwinter Nights...

[bpstrat]

Wow. So thats what Zilfin looked like.

Yeah, Rings of Zilfin was a fun game back in the SSI heyday. It had pretty amazing graphics on the Atari ST for the time. And if you liked RoZ, you should look into the Magic Candle games, which were created by the same guy, Ali Atabek. They were like Ultima V crossed with RoZ - very detailed and with very cool stories.

[Pfandpirat]

It very difficult to choose just 10 games cause there are quite a lot of decent titles out there, but my TOP 10 would be:

1. AMBERMOON
I might be a bit biased because I´m german but this was the RPG that really impressed me when I was young. Perhaps the best german RPG (even if nearly no one outside germany ever heard of it) although it is very difficult to compare Ambermoon with the Gothic-Series because they are divided by a decade of technical progress. Of course Thalion went bankrupt just a short time after the release of Ambermoon but I guess thats the fate that most innovative and creative companies have to suffer sooner or later...:(

2. PLANESCAPE TORMENT
This is really a great game, a real classic that has it all, (weird)humor, complexity, free choice - as a matter affect of this I just knew that it wouldn´t get a successor:D

3. GOTHIC 2
The second best german RPG ever, slightly bugged and ressource-hungry at the time of its release it was the first german RPG to be really recognized on the international market.

4. BALDURS GATE II
I dunno how many hours I´ve spent with this game but it was worth the time (Boo agrees with me;) )

5. EYE OF TEH BEHOLDER 2
Another great game from my Amiga-time, without automapping (there was a level with a lot of spinners and ants where you couldn´t rest if I remember correctly) and sometimes nasty monsters quite challenging when compared to modern hackfests.

6. ULTIMA VII
The first Ultima that I ever played and it made a very good impression.

7. KOTOR
Definitely my most positive gaming surprise in 2003 AD&D and Star Wars compared just can´t go wrong^^

8. FINAL FANTASY VII
I know that some people don´t consider Japan-RPG´s to be real CRPG´s but FF VII is one of the few games that really made a lasting impression on me and I´m still hoping somehow deep in my heart that there will be a remake of this title for the PS 3 somehow, somewhere...

9. THE ELDER SCROLLS III: MORROWIND
It is always sad when the predecessor beats the successor in nearly every area except the graphics but I really don´t want to bash Oblividoom 3D here...;)

10. VAMPIRE BLOODLINES
Extremly buggy after the release, but with the use of the fanpatches a real RPG-Gem. Troika went also bankrupt so it had to be a great developer;)

[crpgnut]

This is SO hard! I've logged more hours in crpgs than some of you have logged in life :D

1. Ultima IV-the first time I lost an eighth I was devastated. I couldn't believe a game could be complex enough to track my actions and that I had to actually pay the consequences for those actions.

2. Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra. I have played this game more than any other. I like puzzles and riddles and MM3 had them in spades. I also loved the grid-style maps. There is something about clearing a 16X16 map that appeals to me I guess :D

3. Amberstar-The story just appealed to me in a strong way. I wonder if I could get this to play in Dosbox...

4. Daggerfall-I might have played this game for 1000 hours before setting it aside. It was on my hard drive longer than any other game.

5. Magic Candle-Another oldie like the Ultimas. The main theme wasn't as good but the gameplay was fantastic. Hard for me to remember the details after all these years. I need to revisit my early adulthood.

6. Wasteland-First non-fantasy game I ever played. I'll never forget the blotchy yellow "radioactive" areas.

7. Wizardry 6: Band of the Cosmic Forge. This was my favorite of the wizardry series. I need to replay 8 because I got bored with the tedious half hour battles. I never tried it with Wizfast.

8. Morrowind: The first time that I fell in love with a game because of the graphics. The people were ungodly ugly, but the landscapes and skyline were stunning. Once Better Bodies was released, Morrowind became the second longest game to stay on my hard drive.

9. Might and Magic VII-Alchemy and the Dungeon design again captivate me with this game. I still miss my Obsidian weapons though!

10. Oblivion or NWN-Oblivion for the beautiful huge world to play in and NWN for the millions of mods released. NWN is the neverending game. It remains to be seen if NWN2 will ever have the modding community that NWN generated. Obsidian's tools are unfriendly and in some ways much less powerful than NWNs. If NWN2 ever takes off mod-wise, it'll be #10 on my list.

[Sertorius]

3. Amberstar-The story just appealed to me in a strong way. I wonder if I could get this to play in Dosbox...


Sure you can. But the better idea would be to play Ambermoon with Amiga emulator like WinUAE. If i didnt play it yet and enjoyed Amberstar, its a must.

[Acleacius]

Amazing list everyone, I wish I could put one together alas I am terrible at lists. ;)

Lord Alex
"Also, Warren Spector's writing and story rival anything ever done in gaming on any platform."

In case your intrested, Warren Spector isn't the writer nor is he given credit for writing the story or dialogue, but for Producer and Project Director, this includes offical credits which can be seen here;
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/deus-ex/credits

This also includes other Developers and can been seen in chats on the International Game Developers Association boards as an example here;
http://www.igda.org/Forums/printthread.php?threadid=10779

"Sheldon Pacotti who wrote the stories/dialogue for Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2 was a published writer and a programmer before he went to work at Ion Storm."

Keep the great list coming. :)

[Dajjer]

The first three games have been my top three since I finished G2. The bottom 7 change depending on mood and time of year so I just put them in alphabetical order.

Gothic 2
I was late to the party but became an instant fanboy once I got beyond the strange interface. The Gothic games are the only RPGs I actually feel like I am in a real world. If PB ever hires a strong producer that can bring out a polished game out of the gate it will turn the Gothic franchise into an evergreen product.

Might & Magic 6
Yeah, 7 had a lot of neat things going for it but I felt MM6 finally got the 1st person perspective, party RPG right. And the music was just spectacular.

Deus Ex
My first rig couldn’t run the game so I had to wait about a year before I could play. If they would have handled the franchise right, we’d be looking forward to Deus Ex 4 right now. With tremendous atmosphere and solid game play and a sorely needed other-than-fantasy setting it was just about a can’t miss.

Bard Tale 1
After being seduced by the goodness of the early Wizardry games and its vector graphics what a shook full upon seeing 16 bit full color graphics. Plus there were towns to travel in, not just dungeon to explore. BT1 was a great transition game that was fully realized with Might and Magic 1.

Divine Divinity
It was word of mouth that got me to play this game. The demo sucked so it was a really hard sell. But enough folks convinced me that the opening dungeon was the worst part of the game and they were right. As a whole, this game probably had the best overall score of any RPG. And I’m a big fan of Rob King, of Might & Magic fame.

Fallout 1
Being a huge fan of Wasteland, I was looking forward to this game. When I finally got the game and opened the box I was treated with the best RPG gaming manual ever (sadly even to this day). And what pain I went through designing my character. I had to make a whole bunch of real choices (unlike the few you had to make in some of the Ultima games). And then the opening cut scene, the living towns, and the tremendous voice actors. Wow just WOW.

Land of Lore 1
Technologically speaking, this game was behind the times when it first came out. Using step motion instead of the fluid motion was a great disappointment when I started playing. But what a great game to play. And for once monsters attacked from above instead of just directly in front of you. The sequels, while interesting, were nowhere close to the majesty of LoL1.

Morrowind
There’s something about this game that just makes me nostalgic in a good way. It was just a fun game to play and a wonderful world to explore. It just boggles my mind that from a game play standpoint, Morrowind is superior to Oblivion in just about every way.

Ultima 9
This was another game that did not run on my rig. I didn’t play the game until much much later with a far better rig. This really wasn’t like an Ultima game, but I have to say I enjoyed this game more than the others. Ultima 4 was a fun game but making food and regents was tedious. And it’s dungeon design was more of a distraction than anything else. Ultima 4 succeeded because it had a fresh take on how RPG should play and it worked. Still, I had more fun with 9.

Wiz 8
The combat in this game almost qualifies it as a strategy game. But I too just loved how your skills went up as you used them.


ADDENDUM

There are some really good RPG that I have played and loved but never finished. Maybe some day they might break into the top 10. Betrayal at Krondor, Star Trails Realm of Arkania, Outland, Fallout 2, Anachronix, Albion, Balders Gate.

And finally, I’ve been playing RPGs on computers since Tunnels of Doom on my TI99. I just want to give a shot-out to some other excellent games. Nintendo’s Dragon Quest 1 and Final Fantasy 3. Segas Phantasy Star 3, Stonekeep, Anvil of Dawn, Dragon Wars, Pillars of Garendal and Sacred.

[Corwin]

While I didn't like MW, the only choice that stuns me, is U9!! Did you play all the others? I love the series, but HATE U9 as it was NOT a proper Ultima game by any reasonable definition of what makes a genuine Ultima game!!

[Dajjer]

Sorry to offend your senses Cor, but yes I played Ultima 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 9 and Ultima Online. And yes, even in my post I said it wasn't a proper Ultima Game. However just as a stand alone product, I had a lot of fun playing the game. Of course since I played the game a good two or three years after release, I never had the bug problems. In a certain sense, U9 played very much like a Gothic game in that you could wander all over the world and do a ton of stuff. Yep I could easily give the game a replay.

Basically I very much enjoyed the Utima series but the prior games just never struck me as fun and great. All the games I placed in my top 10 had oddles of both.

[Lucky Day]

hmm..lots of talk about obscure but excellent (or not so) CRPG's of the past lately.

I'm the only one to put Dark Heart of Uukrul in their top 10. Has no one else played it?

Its not so surprising to be a lost classic because it came out around the same time that the Apple ][ was finally obsoleted.

[Jaz]

I do empathize with you regarding the choice, Dajjer, my favorite Ultimas being the Underworlds and U9. For me, the others I played (6 and 8 - how comes nobody played 7? :p ) were 'meh' games, they just didn't cater to my tastes.

[Dajjer]

GG, I've played and enjoyed all the games on your list except the last one-Albion, which I've not heard of. Could you post a link or some details about the game, since your tastes seem to reflect mine!!

You really missed out then. The story starts on a space ship that crashes on a technologically primitive planet filled with alien customs our surivivers must learn how deal with or die. A bit of hyperbole but it should do in a pinch. It's really a surprise that more develpers didn't try to go the alien planet route for RPGs. My hard drive crashsed about 3/4 of the way through the game and I was never able to find my save game on my special save games floopy. :(

[Dajjer]

I do empathize with you regarding the choice, Dajjer, my favorite Ultimas being the Underworlds and U9. For me, the others I played (6 and 8 - how comes nobody played 7? :p ) were 'meh' games, they just didn't cater to my tastes.

Thank god we all have different tastes or we would all be playing ONLY World of Warcraft.

[Fenris]

Albion:

http://www.abandonia.com/games/en/428/Albion.htm

:)

Edit: Hehe.. at Page 3 or so of this Thread are already two links to the Game...

[Corwin]

The best 2 Ultimas EVER, are 5 and 7 (both parts) which it appears you didn't play!! (Shock/Horror) :) Get Lazarus to see U5 at its best, and try to grab 7. After those, U9 shouldn't even be in the picture!!

[Dajjer]

Please don't get me wrong, I loved the other Ultima games, they just don't merit a mention in my tip ten, but there was always just a tad bit of tedium in the game play which I suspect was still present in both 5 and 7. Ultima 9 got it right in that it reduced the regent creations and needs for food to a minimum. One of the Ultima I missed was remade with the dungeon seige engine and I plan on giving that a go. But I guess some where down the line I'm going to have to play 5 and 7 just to keep some street cred.:)

[Corwin]

The one you're referring to is Lazarus, which I suggested you get.

[dteowner]

Geez Corwin, you're a tougher salesman with Ultima than I am with Wiz8. You're gonna have a stroke, old man. ;)

[bjon045]

Dear god!!!! ULTIMA 9!!!! For the love of baby jesus please play ultima 7 and 7 part 2. They are surely near the pinnacle of RPG goodness.

Ultima 7 has none of the "tedium" you speak of, the combat is real time and most battles finish in mere seconds...

[GothicGothicness]

Ultima 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 9 and Ultima

LOL you missed 7............ this is the ageless classic masterpiece! It's really strange you played that many... but not this one.

Geez Corwin, you're a tougher salesman with Ultima than I am with Wiz8. You're gonna have a stroke, old man.

Both you and Corwin has great taste, no wounder both of you are trying hard! Wiz 8 and ultima 7....... will we ever see such a good games again?

[txa1265]

will we ever see such a good games again?

[cynicism on] yes, but they won't be RPG's ... or at least not in any form that we'd recognize ... [/cynicism off]

I hope so.

[Lucky Day]

U5 wasn't nearly as innovative as any of the other Ultimas. U6 and U7, not to mention the Underworlds, weren't capable of being run on anyone normal person's PC at the time. You had to have some expensive hardware and in some cases something called a "hard drive" . The same thing could be said about U9 but it was such a complete mess its not worth mentioning. U8 I think most people consider it an aberration from the Ultimas and it was such a brilliant marketing strategy!

U3 and U4 are the best of the Ultimas. Origin got so focussed on their Wing Commander cash cow at the end they lost sight of what they did best IMO.

Getting back to Dark Heart of Uukrul...

[curious]

anachronox
despite the fact that i've technically never finished it, it hovers somewhere near the top of games i've ever played. i love sci-fi games but most are everything but rpgs. the characters in this game were great and never have i laughed/smiled so much or actually cared for the characters like i did in this game. i've played through it twice and the first time i got 'stuck' on the last level and so the second time through, knowing their wasn't going to be a sequel i was hesitant to finish as i already wanted more and this way i could still have some 'story' left for a later point. not an insult but everytime i see corwin's icon i think of grumpos rather than gandalf;)

gothic
this one doesn't need much explanation. the gothic world is magic and it is nice to catch the genisis of a beautiful franchise (just like a band) from the begining. i will buy everything they produce and hope they have a nice long career.

system shock 2
sci-fi yet again. this game had first-person going against it in my book. at this point 2001? i not only hadn't played system shock 1 but i hadn't played more than a demo of thief but i tried the demo an felt a more heightened 'fear' than in any of the resident evil games (which were great) i had played. in addition the fact that it all took place on a huge spaceship (2 as you later find out) made it heaven for me. spawning enemies actually worked to as this is something i normally despise. seeing aliens as a kid made me embrace this game as well for the feeling of being on a massive ship in space.

bards tale
this was actually the first boxed game i owned. i can still picture the ornate grey square box. i was in fifth grade and although i never had or would go on to play pen & paper my friend said years later that i was running around the schoolard saying 'wizards cast fireball' or something of that nature. being that oregon trail and atari styles games (never owned an atari but we did have a vic 20) were all i'd played this game made me realize that 'thought' was actually needed in some games. i wonder what ever happened to my graph paper maps of the dungeons...

ultima v
i was 13-15 when i played this game, and after having played ultima iv sometime before, i really 'understood' what my actions meant and the responses to favouring certain virtues over others. the graphics were a huge leap forward i recall to but that really wasn't why i liked it. i was so intrigued by the chance of being an avatar while 'learning' things about virtue i either hadn't understood in school and church or been taught at all. i somehow missed ultima vi and ultima vii (school and extra activites nixed most gaming for me in high school save a breakaway to play arcade games). i did play ultima viii, which i remember being the only game i bought at a 'commisary' with my grandparents who were in town, and realize now what they (both religious and conservative) must have thought of their grandson who was buying a game that had a pentagram on it and said pagan:) i also played ultima ix, though it had been out over a year, and if it weren't for the profound effect ultima v had on me i would have put it up instead. it is a great game and would make my top 20 list which i feel i could include multiple titles of the same franchise. maybe i would feel that way if i had played 6 and 7 i can't say, but after ultima viii being the most frustrating game i've tried to finish twice i was delighted by the 3-d world which ultima ix offered.

summoner
i am aware this was a multi-platform game but i played the pc version and from start to finish i thought it was a well made/polished game. it had fun side quests enjoyable dialogue, was in 3-d, and just about everything it had i liked. and i have yet to see another game where wearing rings is so important!:)

deus ex 2:invisible war
this is sure to draw some comments;) but it comes down to i played the original after it had been out over a year. i agree that it definately got a bit to 'consolized' and that some good things got removed or changed. i thought the characters and story were better though. specifically i thought it was cool how they had voiced dialogue for both sexes. i realize that some may cringe at that, but for me well done storytelling is usually more important and makes other things forgivable. the demo played horrible on my machine at the time but i eventually got it smooth on a 2nd or 3rd playthrough. the ending was fairly weak, but what upset me most was that there was no 'non-lethal' way to kill the armoured templars--though they probably did deserve it. simply put the original was more groundbreaking and better in most regards, but it did not engross me or emerge me like invisible war. and probably the most ridiculous reason is i don't like people who were sunglasses all the time so why would i want to play one! only if they are vampires is it ok;)

siege of avalon
i don't remember how i found out about this one but i remember being drawn to the slogan "played a good book lately". that in essence is what it was and again 'catching' it at the genisis made it especially great for this game as you actually could have feedback into what they put into the coming chapters of the game. this not only made a bond but becauses it was released in chapters you had a much shorter time to wait then for an expansion. i highly recommend this 'indie' game (i thougt divine divinity was kind of similar) and am saddened they never got to make 'pillars of avalon'.

knights of the old republic 2
i played these both back to back last year and only because my fiances brother let me borrow the first one, which i then immediately purchased the 2nd (recieved it before i had even finished 1). i've never been a big fan of star wars and have only seen episode 1, and of course the earlier ones--my mom did a damn fine job making me and my brother ewok costumes as a kid. but the reason i liked 2 over 1 weren't the additions of item creation and such but the influence system and the characters themselves which i found much darker, deeper, and more mysterious than the somewhat cliche ones of the first. maybe this games should actually be called deus ex because the lightsaber is kind of a 'deus ex machina' in that without it would the combat and game itself be as enjoyable? neverwinter nights 2 might eclipse this spot but i haven't finished it yet. either way an obsidian game will always be in my top ten from now on.

vampire the masquerade: bloodlines
i enjoyed redemption, which would probably be on my list if it weren't for bloodlines. not only was bloodlines fun beyond belief but it is the game i replayed most ever. the story/dialogue/music also is also the pinnacle for me of what could/should be in a game. if i ever need to feel like i'm not gaming but taking part in a virtual story i load the game back up. thank you troika.


certainly worth mentioning--

fallout 1, fallout 2, arcanum, arx fatalis
games that ive have spent over a hundred hours on each, through multiple playthroughs, but have never finished. arcanum and arx fatalis i played within a year of release the first time, but i didn't step into the fallout realm until ~2002/2003.

damn that took well over an hour!

[Alrik Fassbauer]

and am saddened they never got to make 'pillars of avalon'.

The German-language community called "SoAmigos" has recently received a "concept-level" of the pillars.

They offer download only after registration in the forum, though.

The community (they are still modding the game thus producing new patches for the German version of it) is located here : http://soamigos.de/wbb/hmportal.php?action=languagepack&langid=0

[curious]

thanks for the link!
the screenshots brought back fond memories.
yet another reason to learn german...

[Dajjer]

Curious, I can see your a long time gamer but Deus Ex 2 . . . ? ? ? come on. And you even played Deus Ex 1 and liked it . . . except for the forced fashion statment. However, I know exactly where you are coming when you stated you couldn't finish a game (anachronax) because you knew there was not going to be a sequel. I simply can not finish No One Live Forever 2 (about 2/3 complete) because there will be no further adventures. NOLF 1 is one of my top three games of all time and NOLF 2 is not to much further behind.

I have both Seige of Avalon and Vampires Bloodlines, new, shrinkwrapped and sitting on a nearby shelf waiting to be installed. I know they're good games, but sheez man the day only has 24 hours. I wish someone would do something about that . . .

[xSamhainx]

I've had Siege of Avalon anthology ("6 complete chapters" says the case) sitting here on my desk for months, got it at Circuit City for literally like 99 cents, looks like a damaged cover and cracked case helped the price. Couldnt pass that up. Just reading the case, I could tell that it was some kind of old school RPG that has a huge following. Somewhere ='.'=

Any good SOA sites I should know about?

I'm going to give it a whirl one of these days.

[Acleacius]

Hey you didn't have to use sunglasses, in DX1.
Didn't you know you could have had the same skin without glasses?
I guess I am glad someone like DX2. :(
I know I wanted to like it, there is something there but the horrid condition of the game though most of it has been reduced since the release of the community projects by John-P and BlumenKohl.
Still there is nothing (at least currently) which can be done about constant level changing due to tiny levels and the terrible universial ammo.
It was poor design at least to me to allow the Templars not to be knocked out as well.

Dajjer
"I simply can not finish No One Live Forever 2 "
Gasp! Horror! can't believe you won't finish it, there is an execellent ending including the continuing story (one day) in the closing credits any fan would be missing out terribly by not playing the ending. :(
Monolith has never said they wouldn't make another NOLF, only they needed a break since sales were not going where they wanted/needed.
Besides they took one of the best mission creations, Sibera and just killed it with that respawing crap, actually there were several gameplay issues but damn those snowmoblies were a blast. ;)

Bloodlines! Omg!
Heh, well I understand with titles like NWN2 and G3 out but honestly Bloodlines with the official 1.2 and unofficial patch is one of the best RPGs due to the incretible cast of loony NPCs, acting, animation, music are all top notch, plus you get to play maybe one of the funnest PC ever written (todate anyway) a Malk. :p


xSamhainx
Damn that's a great deal, think I will look here at Circut City. ;)
GameFAQs has some guides even one by SWCarter whom does many at GameBanshee. :)
I haven't really seen any forums or fan sites, so maybe RPGWatch has a new mission.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Any good SOA sites I should know about?

Definitively the SoAmigos community from above !

A good part of their page is in English,. and I'm sure they might be capable of the English language as well. :)

Their latest Patch is actually kind of a mod, but it erases almost all bugs in the German version. I don't know, however, in how far it is applicable to international versions. The game versions of the English game and the German game differed a bit, even in the .EXE's, if I remember correctly.

Since a huge part of the game relies on text files, modding is relatively easy.
They also have the tools for modding - I mean editors & stuff.

[Sertorius]

hmm..lots of talk about obscure but excellent (or not so) CRPG's of the past lately.

I'm the only one to put Dark Heart of Uukrul in their top 10. Has no one else played it?

Its not so surprising to be a lost classic because it came out around the same time that the Apple ][ was finally obsoleted.

no, you are not. i put it on 6. i played it first time in 2003 with DOSbox end enjoyed it for many hours. so i dont think a good game can be obsolete because of graphics.
Btw, combat in DHoU is very similliar to later shareware combat-RPGs like Nahlakh, Natuk and Helherron. Did someone mentioned them?

[Jinksy]

Time to opine:

1) Planescape Torment

The epitome of everything RPGs should be about. Plenty of stats to keep all but the most die-hard happy, but they're only a means to an end: shaping something unprecendented - an original fantasy setting (and an epic story).

2) Panzer Dragoon Saga
(Freudian slip... I started writing Planescape Torment again here :P)

Linear as any console RPG, but with beautiful graphics that have barely aged, audio that hasn't at all and recognisably human characters. It all comes together as something unprecedented - an original fantas... rats.

3) Fallout 2
(to my shame I still haven't played the original)

When I picked up an intruiging looking, highly customisable post-apocalyptic RPG, I wasn't exactly expecting the second funniest game I've ever played (after Monkey Island, of course!). Not exactly a comedy, but some hilarious set pieces. And the generally ugly graphics come to life when (in non-European versions) you stick a frighteningly large minigun against a wee kiddy's torso and gleefully pull the trigger.

4) System Shock 2

I originally played this in company, during the daytime, with the curtains open. My friend still only has to say 'rrrraaaghhhhkkiilllllllMEEEEEEEE' (you'd be surprised how often it comes up in conversation) to make me shriek and dive behind the curtains.

5) Skies of Arcadia

Normally I have little time for console RPGs, and the gameplay in this isn't really groundbreaking. But the two most beautiful (family friendly) sights in this world are the Scottish Highlands and Arcadia. Particularly when mile-high robots rampage across its pretty little continents.

6) Planet's Edge

A long, and relatively unusual 80s sci-fi RPG, with a plot unlike any I've seen. The earth suddenly disappears, and as humanity's first interstellar travellers, you have to find out how and why... while the Moonbase can still support what's left of humanity.

7) Ultima Online

Are people deliberately avoiding MMOs? This is still the most gratifying one for me, anyway. An excess of PKs made life for even the most developed player demanding - and very interesting.

9) Story of Thor

Another hybrid - a beat-em-up/adventure/RPG that predated Shenmue by several years, and didn't require you to stand in a carpark hitting the same button combination over and again. Bizarrely for such a visceral genre, it also had an involving story, with an unexpected twist in the tale.

10) Anachronox

Some of the best persistent voice acting (as opposed to Planescape's equally brilliant clips) I've heard in a game. Dry, ironic, post-modern. Everything no RPG will ever be again.



Dishonourable mentions to:

1) Baldur's Gate II

What does everyone see in this? The characters have all the depth of a popcorn movie, without the sex appeal. The sprites (and backgrounds) are drab and mostly generic, the plot is 'character with unrealised destiny defeats powerful wizard and saves the world.' Combat is impossibly fiddly - your characters pose more danger to you than the enemy. And the jokes could've come from a box of Christmas crackers.

2) Shenmue

'I am a mighty warrior, who's just defeated 10 of your fellow henchmen, and I wish to progress beyond this door.

'I'm sorry.
'You can't go in.'

'I see...
'I'll go and beat up a carpark for 3 hours, then.'

[JDR13]

Dishonourable mentions to:

1) Baldur's Gate II

What does everyone see in this? The characters have all the depth of a popcorn movie, without the sex appeal. The sprites (and backgrounds) are drab and mostly generic, the plot is 'character with unrealised destiny defeats powerful wizard and saves the world.' Combat is impossibly fiddly - your characters pose more danger to you than the enemy. And the jokes could've come from a box of Christmas crackers.
'


No offense, but it doesn't sound like you even played BG2 very long.

[Jinksy]

I finished it once, after restarting repeatedly, and seeing pretty much all the strongholds, romances and subquests, usually several times. It's one of those horrible games which is addictive without ever actually being fun.

Anyway, if a game's crap for the first 10 hours, then it's a crap game. There are plenty of gems out there that you don't need to spend half an eternity in purgatory to enjoy.

[JDR13]

If a game is crap for the first ten hours then you aren't going to spend another 80-90 hours finishing it.

[dteowner]

If a game is crap for the first ten hours then you aren't going to spend another 80-90 hours finishing it.Not sure I agree with that. I've slogged thru a game or two waiting for it to eventually "get good" and never getting the payoff.

[Corwin]

Yeah DL anyone!! :)

[txa1265]

I finished it once, after restarting repeatedly, and seeing pretty much all the strongholds, romances and subquests, usually several times. It's one of those horrible games which is addictive without ever actually being fun.

Anyway, if a game's crap for the first 10 hours, then it's a crap game. There are plenty of gems out there that you don't need to spend half an eternity in purgatory to enjoy.

I think there is a broad difference between 'crap' and 'over-rated'. Crap would be something like MistMare or Metalheart.