Wiz8 debate

[dteowner]

I've got my ironman crew thru Marten's Bluff and back to Mt. Gigas. So the debate is which side to take in the alliance this time. I've done all 3 options in previous wins, so it's just a question of which one appeals at the moment. I'm thinking I might go Trang this time. It's been a while since I've cleansed Mt. Gigas. Thoughts?

[JDR13]

Hi dteowner, good to see you here.
I thought going double agent was a lot of fun.

[Corwin]

Yep, that's how I went all those years ago too!! However, I never really liked the Trang; I always felt they weren't to be trusted!! I wiped them out as best I could in Wiz 7!! :biggrin:

[bjon045]

Isn't there 4 options? T'rang, Umpani, Double Agent and Rapax king?

[dteowner]

Hmmm. I've never tried to stay with the Templars long enough to be on good terms with the King. Sounds like I've got a direction. Thanks, bjon45!

[JDR13]

Rapax King?? How come I don't remember hearing about that option?

[dteowner]

I hadn't either. Will give it a spin, although I only get to play on weekends for a while here.

[josephwatson]

I still need to play this game for the 1st time (for more than a couple of hours, anyway).

[Corwin]

It's still one of the best old skule games ever made!! Go for it!!!! :)

[Danicek]

@josephwatson - You do that...

[bjon045]

I am pretty sure the rapax areas weren't fully finished (rapax castle and rapax away camp). It kind of seems like there should be a whole storyline involving restoring the queen to power but as it is when I play a rapax game I simply wipe out the Umpani and the T'rang and kill the rapax queen and the 2 spies. Would have been nice if it had been fully implemented like the T'rang and Umpani missions.

[magerette]

How does this game run/install on XP? Haven't played it since my Win 98 days.

[dteowner]

How does this game run/install on XP? Haven't played it since my Win 98 days.No problems at all. I don't think I'm even running in compatibility mode. I'd have to check to be sure. Make sure you patch up to v1.2.4 and install the Wizfast utility.

[Lucky Day]

one problem with all these replayability options they put in CRPG's..I never do.

[magerette]

There are still a lot of active fansites out there--saw that Flamestryke has one, and there even seemed to be some relatively recent activity on the Sir Tech page. Thanks for the heads-up on the patch and utility,dteowner.

[cutterjohn]

Ran fine under win2k when I last played a few years ago, XP should be the same.

As to old school: the game system/mechanics are like the games of the good old days before RPGs were dumbed down, i.e. made more "accessible". The engine, however, is fully 3D, and I thought, pretty good for when it first came out. Battles can be tediously long towards the end, so if you've only got limited play time this may not be the game for you.

A good strategy for beginners is when outside and about to face mobs, find a niche to back into so your party doesn't get surrounded. i.e. your wimps in the back will quickly be killed otherwise.

[magerette]

Ran fine under win2k when I last played a few years ago, XP should be the same....
...A good strategy for beginners is when outside and about to face mobs, find a niche to back into so your party doesn't get surrounded. i.e. your wimps in the back will quickly be killed otherwise.

Yes, I am presently backed up with my Fairy Mage smothered behind my Mook Ranger with the meat sheilds to the fore, huddled into a tiny crevice on the Arnika road, desparately fending off wave upon wave of Higardi ne'er-do-wells. It is running great on Xp without any problems, and the 3D is really not that bad--certainly no worse than the original Gothic.

This is really a much better game than I realized when I got it. The characters do indeed have distinct little personalities due to the nice scripting and competent voice acting--it has a lot of qualities that you just don't see anymore--like it's hard!... :-/ er, ...challenging. I can see how the fights could get a bit tedious, but I did find a site to download the Wiz8Fast utility, which I will probably break out later. All in all, a true rpg, deep and layered--and I'm just at the beginning.


Thanks, Role-Player, for getting this started with your review over at the Codex. And of course, RPGWatch for newsbitting it.

[Corwin]

Ah, the Arnika Road!!! I spent many an hour or two engaged in multitudinous, multifaceted, melodramatic, and metacognitive mayhem there, as I made my way from point A to B!! :biggrin:

[magerette]

Extra points for 'metacognitive' play, right? Does this require more than two lobes of brainpower? This could be my problem.;)

@dteownwer
Ironman is definitely impressing me. I am more at the Limp Spaghetti Man level.
I can't imagine this game without the death-cheating reload feature.

[dteowner]

Well, I didn't play Ironman for a long, long time. I've got 6 wins, 3 Rapax Rifts, and over a hundred monestaries on my resume at this point. After 1000+ hours of gaming, Ironman isn't quite so daunting, although I must admit I'm being pretty careful about my progress.

See, the "real man" plays a solo faerie ninja on difficult level with ironman. I've done that thru Arnika, but I had been playing too much of the game when I tried that and I ended up quitting.

[magerette]

At least you didn't have to be institutionalized. :D

[dteowner]

And our merry ironman band moves on. We've got all 3 devices, have pushed the Umpani/Trang thing as far as possible without picking a side, have cleared 2 of 3 easter egg dungeons, and will be clearing the mountain wilderness and southern wild zones next.

The movers boxed everything today, so it might be a while before I've got home internet access again. I'll porbably sneak a post or two from work, but until everything's settled down, it will be quiet and dark. Keep on pushing your parties all, and we'll compare progress in the future!

[Role-Player]

Ah, the Arnika Road!!! I spent many an hour or two engaged in multitudinous, multifaceted, melodramatic, and metacognitive mayhem there, as I made my way from point A to B!! :biggrin:

I still remember coming from the Monastery with a party weak on hit points and stubling upon this swarm of wasps on the Arnika Road that brutally slayed every character with their insect ways. That's when I started coming up with the 'run to a safe spot before they see you' strategy.

[GothicGothicness]

And our merry ironman band moves on.

May I ask what difficulty level you are playing?

[dteowner]

Just normal this time around. I've done the difficult setting before, but didn't feel the urge this time.

[GothicGothicness]

Just normal this time around. I've done the difficult setting before, but didn't feel the urge this time.

I have never completed it on the most difficult setting on ironman, I think this is something very impressive to do :)

[Delirious Nomad]

Thanks for reminding me of that great game. ***must install again soon***
If i had to pick the one best feature, I'd go with the personality you chose for your generic PCs. I wonder why this idea has not been copied. That would have been a bless for games like Icewind Dale 1&2 or the later Might & Magics.

[magerette]

Yes, it adds a lot to the game IMO. I think MM7 tried to do this a bit with the different voices, but that became merely a contest to find the least irritationg one--I had one in my last game that insisted on repeating " that didn't hurt AT All-it's only a scratch" and then dying...:)

Ironman on difficult would indeed be a challenge! I played on "novice" all the way to Arnika!

[dteowner]

Southern wilds cleared (actually did a much better job than usual with that one, if I do say so myself). Mountain Wild and Egg #3 next on the agenda.

Relocation has been a complete disaster. Might get the PC set up tomorrow night. I think the DSL at home is scheduled for Friday. Just might manage to get a little gaming done over the holidays.

Progress reports, folks?

[Cormac]

Why do I feel like a child handing over a bad report card to his parents for inspection ? My band is only now entering the Arnika road; I've met and defeated a first group of raiders but I had to immediately retreat afterwards to rest. My fighter is level 7 and the rest are level 6, too low to make any real progress, it seems to me, therefore I think I'll camp here for a while to gain a few levels. But I've read all the caveats about this section already, so I wont stay put for long.
I'm satisfied with my group; love my bishop, although I cant understand why so much of his divinity spellcasting attempts fizzle out, when it's his most highly skilled school.
I blame my recent WoW addiction for my slow progress.

[magerette]

Moving is most generally agony from hell-hopefully you'll be set up by the hols, dte.

My group is now about lvl 13, T'rang aligned, scouring out the Northern Wilderness before heading back to turn in my flag and find out my next mission of doom. I killed the Marlon Brando-fixated Ratkin and got the uber ninja weapon, so I'm thinking of turning Vi into a ninja. Be a change for the girl. I'm really trying to move along, because I think my spouse has discovered Internet game shopping and I expect to see a certain Obsidian effort on Christmas morning.

Edit:Well, Vi can't use the weapon as she is not a fairy ninja. (Racism if you ask me. ) Now I see where this fairy ninja thing is coming from.

Onward & upward. :)

[Corwin]

I think I mentioned very early on in the thread, the need for a FAIRY Ninja!! Lots of fun to keep alive!! :)

[Thaurin]

Wow, now I'm tempted to join the Wizardry 8 race and give this a go again. I've never even been out of the monastery! :blush: But at the same time, I'm trying to get Baldur's Gate II finished finally and I still have Planescape: Torment to go through, not bad players in the RPG hall of the greats by any means neither. *sigh*

I had been wanting to try my hand at Arcanum and Temple of Elemental Evil, too. Where does it stop? Where does it stop!?

[Corwin]

Hahaha, know what you mean!! I'm tempted too, to play it for a 3rd time, but I still haven't finished either NWN2, or G3!! I'm very slow and thorough!! Why do 2 good games have to be released at nearly the same time!!!!

[dteowner]

@Cormac-
-Iz not a race, so don't worry. The game is meant to be a long experience anyway.
-The designers' plan was for your party to be around level 7 when you reach Arnika, so you're right on target. Part of the reason the Road is such a beast is that they needed tougher critters to supply enough XP for the progression.
-Assume you're casting in the green, or at worst the yellow? A good book score helps, but it's really the realm score that drives your success percentages.

@magerette
-Generally, switiching classes doesn't pan out well. There's a couple powergaming techniques that rely on class switches, but that's intended for specific purposes. Of course with a grubby one-eyed RPC, who really cares... ;)

@Thaurin- It's calling yer name. Hear the Wiz8. Be one with the Wiz8.

DSL box showed up yesterday. Don't think Mrs dte will let me get away with skipping all the other boxes to unload my mistress (as the Mrs refers to the PC), particularly with my parents coming for a holiday visit to the new house Friday thru Sunday.

[Cormac]

dte, good to hear I'm ok for level progression. I am going slow, though: I've spent quite some time mucking about the monastery, trying to discover secret stuff and such, even after I'd mapped it all and had spoken with the cosmc lords emissary (forget his name).
As for my bishop's spell failures: yes, I cast in the green and yellow; but I usually spend my points in the books -- divinity, wizardry, etc. -- and not the individual realms. So I guess that's the problem. Thanks.

[dteowner]

You want to spend more of your points in the books more than the realms, just as you are doing. With a bishop, I pick 2 books to emphasize (which ones depends on party build) and dump the final 3 points into a realm that needs a kick. That's not the optimal way to use the points (any self-respecting powergamer would probably have a conniption over the waste), but it's worked well for me.

Use your buff spells to help build up the realms thru use. For example, when I prep to go out from my "base", I follow this pattern:
Cast light, level 7 until successful.
rest until spell points topped out.
cast other buffs in yellow range-if any of them fails too many times (your judgement), return to step one.
Go kill things.

[txa1265]

Crap ... the disks are now out of my storage box and into my bag ... maybe install tonight ... hate you people ;)

[Cormac]

dte, that's pretty much what I've been doing with my bishop when it comes to spending points. You know, I dont powergame, and I have very little self-respect, but I should perhaps practice my magick tricks more often instead of going off gallivanting with rats all the time. Of course I do have Light and Enchanted Blades on all the time but that's all: Bless is of so short duration that I only cast it when I'm about to enter combat -- or, since I'm slow of mind and body, when I'm already engaged.

Also, would it be too much asking for this thread to remain as spoiler-free as possible ? Unless, of course, I specifically ask for a spoiler, in which case you'd answer promptly. Thank you.

[dteowner]

Fear not for yer mind and body, for bless can only be cast during combat. By the time bless actually does much good, you'll have better spells for your bishop to cast anyway.

Missle shield and magic screen are nearly necessities and they can be cast outside of combat. Get them. Cast them. Revel in the magical cocoon. IIRC, there are 10 buffs that can be cast outside of combat. I regularly use 5 of them as quickly as I can get them.

We'll do our best on the spoiler thing. Don't know if the spoiler code hack we had at the Dot has been implemented here. That might be helpful for this issue. Corwin/Dhruin/Jazzy/Myrthos? Are everyone's progress reports too much foreshadowing for your liking, or are you aiming at more blatant "how to" spoilers?

@mike- BWA HA HA! Cue Queen! Sing it with me, everyone! bum, bum, bump...Another one bites the dust...

[txa1265]

@mike- BWA HA HA! Cue Queen! Sing it with me, everyone! bum, bum, bump...Another one bites the dust...

Hehe ... :) I never finished before, and have been meaning to start again ... but all this talk is just making it too hard to wait.

[Cormac]

Of course, Missile Shield, I forgot about that one.

Are everyone's progress reports too much foreshadowing for your liking, or are you aiming at more blatant "how to" spoilers?

Certainly not the reports themselves, but only the specifics for quests, hidden things, etc.
If it's too much trouble, dont worry, I can go around with one hand before my eyes and just peak between my fingers.

[dteowner]

I think we can all try to keep our updates "suitably vague", right folks? Under no circumstances will we tell how to get into the sunken ship in Arnika! (Cuz you can't)

On a side note, I just noticed that I might have to cut you off the help list--still haven't forgiven the Habs for signing Dandenault away from us last year. You're guilty by association...

[Cormac]

I think we can all try to keep our updates "suitably vague", right folks? Under no circumstances will we tell how to get into the sunken ship in Arnika! (Cuz you can't)

I SAID NO SPOILERZ PLEAZE !!!

On a side note, I just noticed that I might have to cut you off the help list--still haven't forgiven the Habs for signing Dandenault away from us last year. You're guilty by association...

Do the Red Wings really miss him ? I find him adequate, no more. But maybe I'm too harsh, good defencemen are hard to come buy. The Habs have good D this year -- except for Rivet, cant stand that blunderer and I hope they dont resign him --, especially with Bouillon back, they have 8 guys who can play in the big league. 5-2 yesterday against Buffalo.

[dteowner]

I always liked Dandy. On a team of guys that often coasted on talent, Dandy held his own by working hard and doing whatever the team asked. A hard worker with speed would have been helpful last year against the Oil. When Grandpa Chelios and One Leg Stevie are your hardest workers in a playoff series, bad things happen.

That wasn't a spoiler, BTW. You'll see when you get to town. There was a rumor back in the day that it (and the adjacent lighthouse) was part of an unfinished quest, but it's clearly just eye candy now. Don't worry--I'll be careful about genuine spoilage.

[JDR13]

I'm still pissed about the Wings letting Brendan Shanahan get away. Cheap bastards! What were they thinking?? He has 40 points(23 goals) through 35 games already with the New York Rangers.

Ton of unfinished quest in Wiz 8. Still a fantastic game though. What do you think are the chances for a Wizardry 9?

[Corwin]

Same as for the wings winning the cup, NIL!! :biggrin: GO LEAFS!!!!

[Cormac]

Reached Arnika. The road to the city wasnt so bad. I suppose everyone who played the game know who Hogar (not sure of the correct spelling) is; well when I saw him I decided my band could take him and off I went after him. It was over before the first round ended: my boy Mitsurugi landed a hit for 1 HP damage, but it was an instant kill.
In comparison to the opposition I found on the road, the two encounters I had in Arnika were laughably easy.

[magerette]

-Generally, switiching classes doesn't pan out well. There's a couple powergaming techniques that rely on class switches, but that's intended for specific purposes. Of course with a grubby one-eyed RPC, who really cares... ;).

Yes--Vi is a sad spectacle as a level 13/levl 1 ninja --I imagine dual classing should be done much earlier--but she's going to be hanging out in the bar in Arnika for the rest of the game anyway. Maybe she can snort down a few with passing assasins and talk the ninja talk. ;)


DSL box showed up yesterday. Don't think Mrs dte will let me get away with skipping all the other boxes to unload my mistress (as the Mrs refers to the PC)...

My husband refers to my rig as The Beast.

@Cormac
Sorry if I exceeded the bounds of spoilerishness. How is your lord coming along?I'm curious if he's delivering as well as your bishop, since I dumped mine in favor of the Bard. My only party problem is that I kill more with spells than melee, so I have to remember to walk in and give my fighter a chance.
About Hogar--he's not a one but a many, as in hogars, so you can look forward to meeting his kind again. I find they freeze well.

[Cormac]

The odd thing about my Lord (not The Son of God) is that he was doing much more damage with his offhand weapon than with his main (he's dualwielding). I had given him a cutlass to replace his rapier and a poignard instead of his main gauche; I'm guessing that he's simply better with thrusting weapons than with slicers ? So I went back with the rapier. I'll shop around in Arnika for better weapons, though. Overall, considering my lack of experience, I think he's doing allright.

[dteowner]

The game doesn't differentiate between cutting and slashing weapons. It's possible your dagger stat is higher than your sword stat. For that matter, a poignard might have a higher average damage than a cutlass anyway. Otherwise, it's randomness at its best.

@magerette-exactly correct on the class switch- generally, you start in one class to get access to certain skills, train those skills up as high as your patience can stand, and then switch over to the "real" class at level 2.

@JDR13- I miss the Irish Jig, but somehow we needed to get the youth movement going. I would have picked a couple other guys to sacrifice before Shanny, but so it goes. Keep in mind that he's playing in the Eastern Conf on a team lacking scoring threats outside of Jagr, so his stats are going to be a little inflated. As for Wiz9, the odds are somewhere between zero and nil. Well, let me clarify that a bit--the Wiz8 team will not do Wiz9. That's not to say some publisher won't whore out the franchise someday, but I wouldn't expect the magic to survive.

@corwin- and the last time the Cup was touched by someone in a Laffs sweater (other than the occasional misguided Hall of Fame employee) would be??? :p

[magerette]

The odd thing about my Lord (not The Son of God) ....

Yes, when that Lord starts dual-wielding, we're all in trouble. I agree it seems odd in any rpg for an offhand weapon to do more damage--in Vi's extremely brief ninja career, she was doing damage of 1 or even 0 with a fairly high quality dagger.


My present problem seems to be placement in the goofy divided circle which supposedly indicates your party formation. If I have a full party of eight it works fairly logically, but now that I've dropped the RPCs, I can't seem to find the best spot for my ranger--he always seems unable to use his bow, even when I place him to the rear. The side positions also seem not to work right--you can have your party on top of an opponent and one or another of them is still shooting a sling. If anyone has a magic bullet on this one I'd love to know.

[Cormac]

I would place the ranger in the exact middle. But if mere words are not enough to sway you, may the undoubted eloquence of the following schematic do so:

F row:----------L---F---S------

M row:-------------R-----------

B row:-----------B---M---------


The letters, naturaly, stand for the character classes (L = Lord, R = Ranger, etc.). I put dashes in there because they look so cool. That's my usual setup except that I have a ninja in lieu of a ranger.

I'd like to see the others' setups too.

@dte: no, that poignard's stats arent better than the cutlass'; it's no big deal, I suppose, but I found it curious because it would continuously hit better than the cutlass, that's why I assumed slash and thrust were taken into account by the game -- especially as the Lord starts with thrusting weapons.

As for the Leafs winning the cup. . . come on, folks, let's be serious here.

[magerette]

I'll try a modified version, Cormac. being as how I have 3 backyard players, the ranger, and two fighters--maybe like this:

-------------V---------F---------

------------------R---------------

-------------B---M---B---------

Sometimes I think I am getting way too into this game.

[Corwin]

@corwin- and the last time the Cup was touched by someone in a Laffs sweater (other than the occasional misguided Hall of Fame employee) would be??? :p

Actually, I have a picture of ME with the cup taken last year in the HHof F !! :)

[Thaurin]

I'm still in the lower monastery. Granted, I don't play all that much. I also have no clue what the hell I'm doing most of the time. :) I should probably read up on a lot of stuff. I give points to what seem to me the most obvious places, like strength and vitality for fighters, intelligence and piety for casters, etc. and focus on divinity and one or two realms (fire for mage, water for priest).

Also, one of my party members died. Usually I reload when that happens in a game, but that's not very nice, is it? Can you resurrect party members and is it actually a bad idea to just go on fighting? (does the dead party member lag behind in experience, for example?)

[JDR13]

It depends how long you go on without them. I always tried to resurrect deceased party memebers as soon as possible because I like all my original party members to be close to each other as far as experience goes. I don't remember where you find resurrection powder for the first time, but I bet dteowner could tell you.

[Thaurin]

By accident, I read that you can find resurrection powder somewhere from the monastery at the waterfall, or something. I suppose I should go get that. I still have no idea what I'm doing, though. ;) I'll post my party setup and formation when I get my hands on it, so you can comment.

[dteowner]

There are two "set" sources of ressy powder in the lower monestary, one of which has been mentioned.

If I can get away with it, I often try to ressurect deaders before combat is over, that way they share in the XP. It doesn' t really matter as you will never be able to keep your entire party at the exact same XP level, but I try my best.

Gotta run for now, but will toss out some formation thoughts later.

[dteowner]

I'm not sure why magerette's ranger was having trouble shooting--that shouldn't have been an issue unless he was out of ammo or stuck on his melee weapon. I almost always keep my ranger in the back. Usually, I go with a 2-3-1 approach (2 tanks in front, 2 casters and L&T middle, ranger in back). I like having a non-caster in the back. Sooner or later, you're going to get attacked from behind. Having the ranger back there allows you to take the beating in the first round and then turn the party around without getting a caster killed. You need to equip your middle row folks with extended range weapons if you want them to be able to melee.

My current crew is doing a 3/3/0 arrangement because I'm melee-heavy and my ranger is a mook (we'll leave it at that to stay away from spoilers).

A neat arrangement I've seen for melee-heavy and upper-level parties is 0/1-3-1/1 (1 left, 3 middle, 1 right, 1 back). Allows 5 melee attackers regardless of weapon range. In fact, one person I knew did a "magic sux" party of 6 lizzy fighters and used a 0/2-2-2/0 formation to deal some serious whoopa$$.

[magerette]

I'm still in the lower monastery. Granted, I don't play all that much. I also have no clue what the hell I'm doing most of the time. :) I should probably read up on a lot of stuff...

You might find this site helpful. I use it a lot, primarily for the maps which I find can be a little hard to decipher as you travel along being relentlessly attacked:

Flamestryke's Wizardy8 (http://www.flamestryke.com/wizardry8/flamestrykes_w8.html)

You can read about the quest progression in both spoiled and unspoiled format as well.

Flame also has a great M&M7 site.

[magerette]

My current crew is doing a 3/3/0 arrangement because I'm melee-heavy and my ranger is a mook (we'll leave it at that to stay away from spoilers).

A neat arrangement I've seen for melee-heavy and upper-level parties is 0/1-3-1/1 (1 left, 3 middle, 1 right, 1 back). Allows 5 melee attackers regardless of weapon range. In fact, one person I knew did a "magic sux" party of 6 lizzy fighters and used a 0/2-2-2/0 formation to deal some serious whoopa$$.


Well, as usual dte you've given me some insight into how the PF circle is supposed to work, or is that "how it can be best exploited" ;)
I rarely go the full melee route, but that 0-2-2-2-0 formation is enticing me with visions of major blood and spilled interior body parts flying everywhere.

I also will try putting the ranger to the rear--I have realized that the problem was having him in left flank position with a polearm-thusly he was only using his bow on opponents who hadn't closed with the party.

[dteowner]

I've always hated using healing potions. Couldn't say why that is, but that would make a "magic sux" game rather challenging for me. The carnage would certainly be breath-taking. It might be a little tight on equipment, though, with everyone needing the same stuff. I guess fighters wouldn't have to use swords, though.

[magerette]

Not to mention very minimal buffs. I suppose you could patiently wait for the Valk and Lord types to get their divinity spells, but if all you had were pure fighters, I don't see what you would do the first time you hit a Sige.

[txa1265]

Did I mention that I hate you guys?
http://txa1265.spymac.com/pictures/Wizardry8_0002.jpg

Well I DO!!!!

;)

I didn't know it supported widescreen resolutions!

[magerette]

Don't blame others for your obsessive-compulsive disorder, mike ;)

[dteowner]

@mike- I have no sympathy for anyone that goes with "Sprocket the Gadgeteer". I mean, sure I had "Ook the Mook" and a monk named "Hong Kong Phooey" a few parties back, but Sprocket? Ya could have at least gone with "Pocketprotector" or some such.

@magerette- same thing whether it's a sige or a seeker or a rat...CHARGE! To be honest, all those stupid lizzys would make me scared to death of insanity attacks. L&T would be interesting, too.

[txa1265]

@mike- I have no sympathy for anyone that goes with "Sprocket the Gadgeteer". I mean, sure I had "Ook the Mook" and a monk named "Hong Kong Phooey" a few parties back, but Sprocket? Ya could have at least gone with "Pocketprotector" or some such.
Actually, for this time around I only created *one* character (upper left, my mage) and the rest are picked from the list for general interesting traits.

[dteowner]

Pre-mades? Oh, Mike, please seek help. Creating your very own merry menagerie and watching them grow is half the fun. It's better than children, cuz you can always start over with a new party if they get on yer nerves. ;) First thing I do when I start a new round is delete the entire library of characters, even though I've got a few characters (female human monk) that probably end up identical outside of voice and portrait when I use them.

[txa1265]

Pre-mades? Oh, Mike, please seek help.
I will go back and restart - I just know I won't do too much gaming until the new year, so if I can get myself into Wiz8 using this band then I can go back and restart with a nice custom group.

[dteowner]

Temporary reprieve granted., but I'm watching you mister.

[Thaurin]

A quick note; I haven't read all posts since my last one. I noticed that my hunter does the most damage with his bow-- more than the fighters in front. Is that normal?

EDIT: reading this thread, I've gotta conclude that there is NO other game out there that has this level of strategic combat and party combinations in it. I mean, just look at the discussion and suggestions for various stuff in the game. I mean, wow.

[dteowner]

Possible. With good ammo, a good bow, and decent stats, a ranger could out-damage a fighter (not berserking) with an average weapon and average stats. There's a ton of variables to consider, including any resistances the critters might have. Overall, your fighter will soon out-damage the ranger.

[Thaurin]

There's a ton of variables to consider

This is exactly what makes this game so special. :D Sorry, I don't have much time for lengthy replies right now. But it also makes this game one that needs a lot of knowledge before it really starts getting good.

[Cormac]

I've read that the ranger can use his bow at melee range. If so he'd never need to carry another weapon -- as long as he always carries sufficient ammo.

[magerette]

Surely there would have to be some sort of handicap for using a bow at point-blank range! If not, I'll be disabling the weapon auto-swap pronto. :)

@Thaurin
Don't be intimidated by all the detail--I was the first time around and gave up. The game does require some thought, especially with finding the characters that work for your play style, but you don't have to know the algorhthyms behind the damage rolls for it to be fun!

[Cormac]

I dont really know, Magerette. I read of that in Scorpia's strategy guide and not in the game manual. I posted a link to that guide in another thread but it wont hurt if I link it here too.

Scorpia's Wiz8 guide (http://www.just-rpg.com/default.asp?pid=49).

[magerette]

Nice guide, and she definitely states rangers can use their bows in melee range.
I have a rough battle ahead at the Temple in the SW Wilderness(already reloaded twice) so I'll give it a shot. Thanks Cormac.

[dteowner]

Confirming that rangers can use bows full time. In fact, I would highly recommend (for first timers at least) locking the bow in so that it can't sneak out by accident. Keep in mind that you're going to go thru a buttload of arrows that way. Plan ahead and carry enough.

I've hit my first ironman disaster. Ferro got mobbed by his fellow Rapax and had the gall to die before I could so much as speak to him. I was casting healing on him and everything and the rat-bastard still croaked. I've been in trouble for decent ammo (my Dominus is suffering from an arrow shortage) and was counting on Ferro bailing me out. Not to mention a few customs... No reloads for the wicked... :(

@magerette- that's one of the more enjoyable battles in the game, IMO.

@thaurin- I don't know that you have to become a guru to complete the game, but it can be a bit frustrating living with "mistakes" that you didn't realize were mistakes at the time. It's a nice carrot to replay, though.

[magerette]

@dteowner
Yes, this kind of spellcaster battle is always the best, where the AI is actually using the same tools you are, but with the relentlessly perfect logic of the machine. At the moment I appear to be totally outclassed, but the whole point of an encounter like this is to make you use every resource you've developed, and some you didn't even realize you had.

Too many games are afraid to give you a real fight--one that isn't just about being faced with more firepower than you can dish out.

Sorry about the Rapax thing. You know how they are. ;) I still resent a snub I got from Antone too much to do anything but want to kill them on sight. Ammo is the least of my problems at the normal level, but getting the good stuff is rare--I have a stack of fear bolts I've been holding in reserve but I have a feeling they may be coming out for this battle --when I tear myself away from my Christmas presents, that is :p

[crpgnut]

Minor spoiler alert:





Ok, I'm getting interested after reading the thread. I don't remember too much about Wiz8 but I seem to remember quitting when one of my characters was forced by the game to leave my party. That, along with the 20 minute combats, was the back breaker for me. I don't remember how far along I was in the game when that happened. What does the Wizfast program do?

[Cormac]

Wizfast simply speeds up the monsters in combat. It makes a huge difference.

[dteowner]

I'm the original Wiz8 fanboy, but I'd call the game nearly unplayable without Wizfast.

*******slightly more than minor spoiler alert***********








You can get your char back pretty quickly. Follow the clue to the evildoer, do a little quest, and you're back in business. This is why I mentioned earlier that it's impossible to have all 6 chars end the game with the same XP.




**************end spoiler***********************

@magerette-- I usually try to do that battle at level 16 or so. Also, normal ammo doesn't count. I actually buy up normal ammo and drop it on the floor to keep merchants from getting their inventory filled up. I aim for impaling stones, hunter quarrels, and barbed arrows (or better). The first two are pretty easy to get if you work at it, but I'm having a heck of a time with the last one. I can get precision arrows out the ying-yang, but even shrikes are rare right now. The battle that led to Ferro's demise involved 29 rapax of various types. Good fun.

[JDR13]

I never used Wizfast(And I'm pretty impatient) just turned combat speed and animation all the way up.

[magerette]

@magerette-- .....The battle that led to Ferro's demise involved 29 rapax of various types. Good fun.

YEEESH!!! : 0

AFA "The Battle," I think I am a little underpowered with only six chars and at lvl 13.I reload once a day and try a new strategy. All my characters then die. I then go back to Titan Quest for mindless hacking and slashing to soothe my ego. Perhaps I'll move on and return later for vengeance. :)

I also need to actually run the Wizfast utility and see how it works--things are getting reeeeeeallly long (X advances, B advances, C advances, oops, time to cook dinner before long-suffering husband deserts me for non-gamer)

[dteowner]

I would be impressed to see anyone do that battle at level 13 without getting a couple lucky insta-kills. You just can't put up strong enough magical protection at that point. There's one attack spell that works nicely in that fight, but it's level 6 IIRC.

Wizfast dramatically speeds up the monster attack animations, beyond what you can accomplish with the settings in the options menu. Those juggernauts will still take a nice slow step back each time you whack em, but it won't take 2 minutes for each one to move 4 inches forward into melee range, wind up for a crushing swat, and bounce harmlessly off your shiny steelhide armor. The improvement in "critter combat walking" is the biggest boost.

[roqua]

I figured out where my confusion came from bards/gadgeteers not being able to pick locks. I had a spread sheet for the party I was creating and what I actually did was edit my bard to be a rogue/bard and a front line guy and gave lockpicking to my ranger. Why? Who knows. And another concept was to give the gadgeteer pickpocketing and a bard in the party always on search and not have a ranger.

So it wasn't any mods that changed anything, it was me.

[Thaurin]

The improvement in "critter combat walking" is the biggest boost.

Am I missing something, or what? I mean, my wizfast utility only ask me for a new monster movement speed and that's all. Is there some version that has more options or am I just misunderstanding things?

[dteowner]

Nope, you've got the right utility. I just made a poor choice of words to describe the change it makes. The creatures' movement speed is increased during combat. The "real time" speed is not affected, nor is their reaction to getting hit.

[Thaurin]

Oh, okay. I suppose it changes some register value, right?

[magerette]

Just ran Wizfast-the difference is pretty dramatic and eliminates a lot of the tedium--but none of the strategy elements. As far as I can see, it just accelerates the enemy animations to light speed.

[dteowner]

Helpful pointer o' the day:

I assume everyone has figured out that you can put items into chests and they will remain there forever? This is particularly useful for stockpiling ammo and ridding yourself of various already-used/soon-to-be-used quest items, as well as dropping "undrop-able" items.

I haven't tested "forever" in every chest since there's one in particular that's just too darn convenient, but I doubt there'd be a problem in any chest you chose.

[GothicGothicness]

Don't forget to put a teleport point at the chest! I always have two characters with the teleport spell, makes it so easy to get around.

GG

[magerette]

Yes, I was wondering if you could set a different portal with each char who has the spell. Thanks for the confirmation. And I have discovered the usefulness of the chest stash system--since there is only a rudimentary sort function on the inventory, it helps keep things from getting overwhelming.

I don't know if any of you have read the thread about Troika and their bug issues, but it got me thinking about how buggy almosy all CRPG's seem to be--POR2, BG series(tho somewhat less) now NWN2, etc--and I was trying to think of an exception.
I decided Wiz8 was remarkably bug free at least for me--then I reflected about the extremely long time this one spent in development. (The word "epic" comes to mind;) ) And that it also was the last gasp of it's dev team. Seems like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" quandry.

[Corwin]

The problem with Wiz8, was that they had to self fund/publish the game!! None of the big companies wanted any part of the game!! Pity, isn't it!!

Now, yesterday, I decided to re-install the game ready to play after I finish NWN2. Well, I had to check it out, to make sure it was working properly didn't I!! :) Five hours later.........!! :biggrin:

[GothicGothicness]

And that it also was the last gasp of it's dev team

everytime someone says that it brings a tear to my eye! It's sad how they created a game that is superior in so many ways ( less bugs is just one of them ) to other RPG's and they can't even get a publisher! Those guys deserve to make a Wiz9.... it could be the best darn CRPG ever made...... just this thread proves how great wiz8 is... how many other SINGLE-PLAYER games are we playing through and discussing this much so many years later??

[Cormac]

What happened when the publishing arm of Sir-Tech went under ? I assume the devs tried to find a new publisher, but then what, none wanted to take a risk -- if risk it was -- in bringing out a hardcore CRPG ? It cant be as simple as that.

[Corwin]

Basically, it was a simple as that!!

[dteowner]

Well folks, I cut it a bit short and hit the endgame at level 21. Some of those battles were challenging, but we made it thru yes we did. Team Ironman becomes win number 7 and somehow this game is still incredible fun. What a treat.

So Corwin, what does your team look like?

[magerette]

Congrats, dte--my team of babies is still struggling toward Bayjin. Thanks for all the help and for inspiring me to play this game again after many years gathering dust. (The game, that is, not me--well mostly the game...;) )It is indeed a treat and a stand out in the genre.

[Corwin]

I'm running a fighter, priest, bishop, ninja, mage and alchemist. Probably magic heavy, but I'm mainly using the priest and bishop as front level fighters. Not sure whether to change the Alc to a Bard; I've only just reached the Arnika road!! Level 7 for most.

[dteowner]

Wouldn't make any class change at level 7, but that's just me. Faerie ninja aiming for the CoC? I've never taken an alchy all the way to the end. They get some pretty cool high level spells, although I never found tossing powders to be reliable enough to risk the backfire.

[Corwin]

Certainly a FN, not just sure whether an alchy is good value with a ninja as well; I forgot they eventually get alchy magic!! Last time I used a Bard and Mook Ranger, so I was trying something different!!

[Nutman]

Gidday, nice to read some posts about Wiz8, like others makes me want to play again.

Have anyone played the Wiz 8 mods - Deathstalkers_Wiz8Mod, Flames final mod or Flames new mod? What are they like, worth checking out.

What are the old Wiz8 development staff up to these days?

THanks for any answers
cheers
Nutman

[GothicGothicness]

They get some pretty cool high level spells, although I never found tossing powders to be reliable enough to risk the backfire.

I love my alchemist! They're great! like you said dte.. the high level spells are really cool. Besides you never have to worry about being silenced!

[dteowner]

@nutman- welcome to the boards! I don't remember where all the team landed, but a couple years ago Brenda posted somewhere that everyone had found jobs in the industry although not all with the same company. She pointed out that meant it was highly unlikely the team could be reassembled for a Wiz9. As for the mods, I've heard good things about Deathstalkers and excellent things about Flamestryke's newest verstion. I haven't tried any of them. I've always been nervous about using mods (other than for MW, which was designed to be modded). Using wizfast was actually a great leap of faith for me. Yeah, I'm old and kooky. ;)

I don't have much motivation to stick with an alchy since I always take a ranger and usually use him as my potion mixer. I push him hard to 50 skill points so I can do one highly profitable mix, but don't use it enough after that to get much above 75. Most of the time, I get my first taste of the good spells right around the endgame. I took a psionic as far as the Rapax Rift. That was fun playing with that spell book. Although I'm not big on spellcasting in any RPG, Wiz8 did a great job of forcing you to explore a variety of spells rather than just tossing endless fireballs.

[Nutman]

HI, thanks for the welcome. Can you install wizfast at any stage during the game?
I wonder if they will ever release the source code for Wiz8?
cheers
Nutman

[Cormac]

Can you install wizfast at any stage during the game?

Yes, but you dont really install it, you just execute the program and decide what level of fastness you want (you'll want the last one).

[Corwin]

It seems all the old walkthru and map sites have disappeared for the most part. I could only find 1 decent one and even it was limited. Perhaps we could host/post copies of the old classics if anyone still has copies.

[magerette]

Corwin I imagine there were indeed a lot more sites early on, and perhaps better ones, but here are a few links to the ones I've leaned on-
(These have all been posted in this thread or another, but thought it might be helpful to put them in one place.)

general purpose, with a good map section:
http://www.flamestryke.com/wizardry8/flamestrykes_w8.html

mods and spreadsheets:
http://www.foerster.cc/wolfie/

character builds-I think dte shared this one
http://www.geocities.com/jandrall/ (Jandralls)
and from Cormac:
http://www.just-rpg.com/default.asp?pid=49

and of course, the infamous gamefaqs:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/game/374906.html

You'll note, there is a solo fairy ninja guide at the latter--like you need one.;)

[Gorath]

It seems all the old walkthru and map sites have disappeared for the most part. I could only find 1 decent one and even it was limited. Perhaps we could host/post copies of the old classics if anyone still has copies.

Maybe the sites can be found in the internet archive. If you can track down the owners you can ask them if we can mirror their content.

[Nutman]

HI, heres another site:

http://www.tk421.net/wizardry/

I forgot to ask, with that wizfast - once its up and running is it easily uninstalled if I don't want to use it ?

cheers
Nutman

[Cormac]

You just need to run it again and bring the speed to 1X.

[Corwin]

That was the only good one I'd found still active from the first time I played the game!! :)

[Melvil]

gah, everytime a post comes up about this game I feel the need to reroll. If not for this game the disappointment of the M&M franchise would have been too much for me...