Deus Ex 3 - Going Well

[Dhruin]

Well, at least according to Eidos Montreal's Twitter page (http://twitter.com/eidosmontreal/status/2574313360). The very brief message:
Development on Deus Ex 3 is going well and the Thief 4 team is ramping up!
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=12608)

[Explodin' Gobbo]

How informative.

[vanedor]

The greatness of twitter.

[Konjad]

I'm doing well as well, thank you.

[DeepO]

tl;dr

:juggle:

[JemyM]

Finally I get a good use for this one;

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/o_rly.jpg

[txa1265]

tl;dr

:juggle:

I actually like twitter some times ... but this isn't one of them ...

[Corwin]

This one goes in my possibly, maybe folder. Enjoyed parts of the original, but the sequel was a disaster!!

[txa1265]

I make no pretenses ... I'm all over it on day of release. And Thief 4 as well.

[skavenhorde]

Ok have I been living under a rock? When did they decide to make DE3? I must have missed that. Great news though.

I loved Dues Ex and liked Dues Ex 2. It was fun even if it was consolized to the point of ridiculousness. Still that being said I enjoyed it enough to finish it. Hope they bring back a little of what made Dues Ex 1 great.

[Rithrandil]

I'd say I would resist the urge to immediately purchase Deus Ex 3 or Thief 4 regardless of how they look, but I'd be lying.

I will purchase them on launch day even if they announce Nicholas Cage and Keanu Reeves are doing the voice acting of every character in both games :C

[Zloth]

I *really* try to avoid buying on launch day. Give it a day, make sure there's no screams of anguish reverberating through the internet, THEN go buy it.

(Unless it's BioWare, Blizzard, or Bethesda. The first two are trustworthy. Bethesda has plenty of bugs on release but it takes a month or two to fix them and I won't be able to hold out that long, so I might as well buy immediately.)

[pox67]

I will purchase them on launch day even if they announce Nicholas Cage and Keanu Reeves are doing the voice acting of every character in both games :C

That is a very big call. I don't know if I could do it.
Barring Keanu Reaves I'll be there after a review or 2 comes out. I have been burnt to many times lately...mostly by Bioshock I think.

[JDR13]

I have been burnt to many times lately...mostly by Bioshock I think.


Bioshock wasn't bad though, unless you're one of the people who was expecting another System Shock 2.

Personally, I won't be getting DX 3 immediately. I'm a little disappointed in the fact that it's taking place 25 years before the events of the original game. I would rather see a worthy sequel. Also, without Warren Spector or Harvey Smith being involved, I'm a bit skeptical about how this is going to turn out..

[Acleacius]

Just to clarify, "....it's going great for a console game...".

[pox67]

Bioshock wasn't bad though, unless you're one of the people who was expecting another System Shock 2.

Unfortunately I was. That isn't too much to expect is it?

Deus Ex 2 interested me more than Bioshock. I wanted to finish DX2 where as Bioshock took a number of restarts and a couple of years to get through.

[stealth]

Basically you shouldn't bother getting anything on release day unless it's a non-complex game. We all know that almost every game needs a couple of patches before the experience is as it should be.

[guenthar]

I am really looking forward to Thief 4 since the series is one of the few non-rpgs I really like and none of the games have disapointed me and I don't expect this one to also.

PS. I'm not so interested in Deus Ex 3 since I can bearly get interested in the first game and the second game lasted a half hour before I quit playing.

EDIT: I think the first game I can remember being refered to as a Massively Single-Player RPG was Darklands.

[JDR13]

Deus Ex 2 interested me more than Bioshock. I wanted to finish DX2 where as Bioshock took a number of restarts and a couple of years to get through.


Yikes! I know Bioshock was disappointing to some, but it was still waaay better than Invisible War imo.

[txa1265]

Yikes! I know Bioshock was disappointing to some, but it was still waaay better than Invisible War imo.

QTF!

IW wasn't as bad in retrospect as it seemed on release, just a very average shooter with a craptastic engine. Bioshock on the other hand is only a disappointment from a single perspective - which is if you are looking for a new SS game.

[DArtagnan]

Unfortunately I was. That isn't too much to expect is it?

Deus Ex 2 interested me more than Bioshock. I wanted to finish DX2 where as Bioshock took a number of restarts and a couple of years to get through.

I was definitely expecting something evolved over System Shock 2 - at first, because the team was Irrational veterans who did SS2 with Looking Glass.

But as development progressed, it became increasingly obvious that Levine's original "big words" - which are evident in early interviews - were mostly just that, words. As release drew nearer, I eventually understood that this would be a simplified SS2 - and as such I wasn't devasted or anything. Levine has demonstrated that his strength is not game design, but story premise and mainstream adaption.

I was somewhat surprised that they ruined replayability by having basically all powers and weapons available on a single run-through - and I was extremely miffed at their design decision to make you immortal through Vita chambers. Oh, and finally, I was gravely disappointed that the story fell apart and basically was nothing but an interesting premise with a lot of suggestive story notions, but ultimately pretty hollow. The two most talked about aspects, meaning the moral choice of rescuing little sisters or not, and the "twist" in terms of player control (should be non-spoilerish) were pathetically weak, if you ask me.

Still, the atmosphere carries the game - and the very first level blew my mind. It was SO engaging in terms of exploring that place and arriving at Rapture - that those aspects in themselves make the game good to great. I also greatly enjoyed the Theme Park level with that other insane figure (level 4 or something) - and I thought it was some of the best level design I've seen in a while. At least in terms of linear structure.

If only they'd called it something without Shock in the title, and made no attempt to touch the System Shock legacy. I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more as a simple linear shooter - which is what it was, ultimately.

[screeg]

Bioshock wasn't bad though, unless you're one of the people who was expecting another System Shock 2.
Wow. Let's all pause for a moment to imagine the art direction and high production values of Bioshock, coupled with the writing and gameplay of System Shock 2...

Okay, back to despair.

I had thought at one point for about 10 minutes there would be some kind of branch, or dialogue with a real person in Bioshock. It was when I discovered the tape of the woman lamenting her daughter being taken by one of the "horrible golems". There were some clues to discovering her/her daughter. Instead I found the woman's corpse, as she had conveniently given up hope and committed suicide.

[Guhndahb]

They wont be insta-purchases to me, since I'm far too fearful they are going to be disgraces to the franchises. Yeah I know, typical skeptical me. I can't help it.

I loved DX1 so much that DX2 was doomed from the start, but I found it tolerable (and I also preferred it to Bioshock for which I had such high expectations that it ended up almost a complete letdown). If DX3 is >= DX2 I'll be content and if T4 is >= T3 I'll be content. I just don't have the heart to aim my expectations higher anymore. :)

[pox67]

Yikes! I know Bioshock was disappointing to some, but it was still waaay better than Invisible War imo.

Bioshock was a straight shooter. DX:IW had a better story, I think, along with more weapons and choices. Its major problem was having Deus Ex in the name. Believe me I hated it for years before really giving it a chance, then at the time I played it it was the best thing on the market :(
If DX:IW was released now with bigger maps and a non consolised hud it would be seen as a great game.
Games are becoming more streamlined and less complex until you end up with Bioshock. That is pretty sad.

If DX3 is >= DX2 I'll be content and if T4 is >= T3 I'll be content. I just don't have the heart to aim my expectations higher anymore. :)
I agree with this and would be happy if it came about.

[JemyM]

Bioshock was a straight shooter.

With a great take on Ayn Rand. Being into political philosophy I consider Bioshock one of the better recent games, one of the few that dared to make an intelligent story.

[DArtagnan]

With a great take on Ayn Rand. Being into political philosophy I consider Bioshock one of the better recent games, one of the few that dared to make an intelligent story.

What was intelligent about it?

If you're talking about premise, then I can agree - it was engaging and absorbing. Unfortunately, Levine really didn't do anything with it, at least not from where I'm sitting. The main antagonist didn't make any sense, because he had multiple opportunities to turn the situation around to his own advantage - which is what a Rand person would do.

Also, there were several stupid plot holes - but I won't go into spoiler-mode needlessly.

[txa1265]

Well, I do think that Bioshock worked pretty well as JemyM said ... better than the whole new mega-comspiracy that DX:IW had ... felt closer to Red Faction 2 than Deus Ex to me ...

[Brother None]

I agree with DArtagnan. BioShock had a great premise and set-up, even if built on the inherently weak writings of Ayn Rand, but it doesn't really use the medium well, it doesn't use gameplay as a way of underscoring its point, and storyline-wise it is just weak.

[bemushroomed]

Anyone who was on TTLG during the time of development must be quite disapointed, Levine talking about how it was like SS2 only better etc. BioShock had great art design, great sound, good graphics. The rest was very mediocre or even weak. But just like crap games like Doom3 it got great reviews, its funny what PR / hype does to some people..

I couldnt stand Deus Ex 2 because of the small levels and the, almost constant loading of new zones there was no immersion. I LOVED Thief3, even more than the previous games so i'm very much looking forward to Thief 4. Deux3, i dont know.. i at least hope they have a better engine this time around.

[JemyM]

he had multiple opportunities to turn the situation around to his own advantage - which is what a Rand person would do.

Bioshock is a criticizm directed against Ayn Rands philosophy, not a chance to play it.

[Brother None]

Bioshock is a criticizm directed against Ayn Rands philosophy, not a chance to play it.

Agreed. But what better way to deconstruct the fallacies of Objectivism than by presenting you with a PC who tries to attain it, only to find it's impossible? In BioShock, you are told of Objectivism failing. That's fine, but you can do that in a book or film. A game gives a chance for a unique perspective on Objectivism, one that was ignore in BS.

[JemyM]

Brother None, point taken.

Regarding Deus Ex 2 vs BioShock, I can see how someone can see DX2 as a better game as the story was quite interesting. And there you really had the choice of which political perspective to follow (communism, libertarianism with corrupt government, fundamentalism or "evolution")?, each one with consequences.

Deus Ex 2 wasn't as good as DX1, and it was terrible on the technical side. With modern computers and fixed .ini's it's worth playing though. It's a game that grew better with age, because of the deevolution of the PC RPG market and improved computers that can compensate for horribly unoptimized games.

[txa1265]

As someone who tries to keep as much objectivity as possible to do reviews, I admit my disdain for DX2 is both personal and subjective ... ;)

[Rithrandil]

I liked Deus Ex because part of it took place on my local air force base. I was like, ZOMG VANDENBURG! Of course, where I lived sunk into the ocean during the earthquake, I think...

Have you guys ever read the backstory to the game? All kinds of weird crap going on. Wasn't there a huge war going on between the US and Mexico or something along the border? And I know like everything south of Vandenburg (so I'm just instead the dead zone) sunk into the ocean...

[Thrasher]

Yeah, DX1 and SS2 were genius. My new machine is capable of playing Bioshack in all its graphix glory, and it's at the right price now. I am on the polar opposite (surpise) on when to buy games. I wait for the post-release impressions from people on boards like these before I pony up the $ for a new release. The pre-release hype is not to be trusted, and just doesn't convince anymore.

I have PLENTY of unplayed well-rated games to catch up on on the meantime.

[JDR13]

I think a lot of people have the tendency to overanalyze the plot sometimes. Bioshock was far from perfect, but still well worth the playthrough imo.

[Guhndahb]

I agree. If I had checked my expectations at the curb, I probably would have liked Bioshock. And my expectations were really so far off. I made an effort to avoid any information about Bioshock leading up to its release. So I was pretty much going on the "spiritual successor to SS2" line.

And what info broke through my anti-spoiler defenses got warped by my expectations. For example, I was expecting the DNA manipulation to be totally different. In the game it was pretty much just a power-up mechanic - FPS-style magic. What I imagined instead was something where you could pick and choose what DNA you would be able to splice into your own with near infinite possibilities and with at least as many utility abilities as combat ones.

I also expected that it would be possible to play through the story with almost no combat, not just by sneaking, but by learning to coexist with what I visualized as a sentient ecology. I mean, seriously, was I way off or what? And I'm just picking bullet points from my visualization of the game. I really had a whole wonderful RPG-FPS hybrid dream game floating about in my imagination.

So Bioshock was doomed for me from the start. I did like the story, some parts were even awesome. I just thought the gameplay was little better than any other shooter and shooters have to be pretty special to interest me.

[DArtagnan]

I think a lot of people have the tendency to overanalyze the plot sometimes. Bioshock was far from perfect, but still well worth the playthrough imo.

I'm glad I played it, and overall I find it a very good game with a sublime atmosphere.

That said, the plot is hardly in need of deep analysis in order to show its weaknesses. I generally don't obsess over this stuff in games, because I'm a gameplay man first of all.

I think the problem with Bioshock was that the premise was so engaging, and the setup seemed to promise something genuinely profound and consistent. Unfortunately, it turned out to be nothing but pretentious hollow pulp - and as such deserving of a negative reaction. It's a question of what you promise and what you deliver, and in my opinion the initial stages of the game promised a hell of a lot more than the game as a whole managed to deliver, especially in terms of story and conclusion.

[txa1265]

That said, the plot is hardly in need of deep analysis in order to show its weaknesses. I generally don't obsess over this stuff in games, because I'm a gameplay man first of all.

And I think the game makes it easy to over-analyze the plot because the gameplay is generally fairly easy, and the game pushes an emphasis on the storytelling.

[DArtagnan]

And I think the game makes it easy to over-analyze the plot because the gameplay is generally fairly easy, and the game pushes an emphasis on the storytelling.

I guess we agree, basically.

It's a semantic thing - as I don't see my criticism as a result of overanalysis. In fact, I think it's pretty objective and seen from a neutral standpoint. I felt this way pretty much right away, as the game devolved around the big encounter half-way through. Until then, I was getting increasingly excited and truly expected a big pay-off, but the game just didn't deliver. That's all.