Wizardry 8 Party Creation Advice

[Cormac]

I just started playing and need advice from the experts for the party I'm trying to create. This is what I've come up with:

Rawulf Lord
Felpurr Samurai
Dwarf Priest
Faerie Mage
Elf Bishop
Hobbit Gadgeteer

- I'm not sure about the races, especially that of the gadgeteer, so is there a better one for that class (and the others) ?

- The bishop: I like the fact he can cast both mage and priest spells (as I understand it) and I almost got two of them but apparently they're tough on beginning players or some such. Should I keep him or ditch him for another spellcaster -- probably a mage ?

- Are bards essential ? I'm prejudiced against them to begin with, and the fact that -- I recall reading in some thread at rpgdot -- there's a powerful instrument that only female bards can use, means I couldnt name my bard Robert Plant, and that's just plain unacceptable. Of course if a bard is a great addition to a party I'll take one; I could always name her Roberta Plant.

- This brings me to the gadgeteer. I had initially wanted a ninja because I really wanted a third melee character but it appears ninjas are not good melee fighters: they actually begin the game with shuriken. A ninja would have been perfect because he would have taken care of lockpicking and trap removal too. So I went with the gadgeteer instead. Good or bad choice ?

I had other questions but I forgot them and now I should get some sleep so thanks in advance.

[Corwin]

Faerie Ninjas are worth considering for one very powerful weapon which only they can use!!

[HiddenX]

A Valkyrie is better than a Lord -> Death Cheating

Bishops a hard to develop, but there are great in in mid- to endgame

A Bard is nice, but I would take him only as a replacement for the gadgeteer

Gadgeteer: (see Bard) - it's fun to play a gadgeteer, because it is challenging to find and make all the tools.

Samurais are the best sword fighters, but they can't use every armour.

Ninja's are good alchemists, too.

[Alrik Fassbauer]

A Vakyrie is very good, but you can have an RPC of that class later in the game.

No matter what you do, I recommend a strong healer.

Bards and Gadgeteers have imho very good "tools" later in the game, but you will be able to recruit an Gadgeteer later, too.

[magerette]

What Hidden X said on the Lord.
I haven't played as much as lots of folks here, but I have restarted my party about twelve times;) --I tried a Rawulf Lord, then Priest dual-classed to a Lord-and perhaps with a lot of patience he might have developed, but compared to a Valkyrie there just wasn't the damage, and the dual wield was pretty feeble as a skill.

On the other hand , you will be able to pick up an RPC who is a very good Valkyrie, so you could plan on another class for one slot. I would keep it a frontline fighter type, though.

I have a bard, and she does as much damage with her instruments as a spellcaster with spells. Because playing the instrument relies on using stamina, she is immediately back up after a battle, rather than having to rest to regain mana. When she loses stamina in combat, I have my Bishop cast the stamina spell, which gives the Bishop a chance to increase the water realm skill. She (bard) is working out pretty good with Locks & Traps as well.

Downside, I hear that later in the game she might not have access to as powerful items, but don't know yet.

The Bishop is awesome, but takes time to develop. As dteowner said in another thread, saving your spell picks at an early level is good. Just let them mount up til you are about level 7 when you can start picking some more powerful spells.
You can buy, steal or find a lot of low-level spellbooks.

There's a good Bishop guide(no spoilers) at this link:

http://www.geocities.com/jandrall/

posted at the same time as Alrik, so someone more knowledgable confirms the Valk advice!

[dteowner]

Just say "no!" to RPCs!!! (sorry, personal preference coming thru)

More to come later, gotta at least look like I'm working.

[dteowner]

Cormac, your party will work, although you're a little heavy on casters IMO. Races aren't that critical, but your choices look fine to me. The only drawback to a hobbit gadgy is less stamina than an equivalent human. Not a major deal, though. With your party, I'd drop the bishop and replace with some sort of melee type.

I don't remember if I've posted this here before, but here's my "magic formula" for a first time player's party (not in order)
1 ranger (autosearch is too valuable not to have, can serve as potion mixer)
1 lock-n-trap (rogue, bard, or gadgy)
1 healer (priest or bishop)
1 offense caster (mage, psi, bishop, alch)
2 tanks (fighter, valk, sammy, lord, monk, ninja)
I would avoid bishops, lords, ninjas, and alchemists for first-timers. They're fun, but it helps to have some experience as you try to develop them. I also don't like rogues. Pickpocket is badly nerfed in v1.2.4, so you end up with an average melee type with no spell ability.

There is no female-only instrument in the game. There is a female-only magic item that is useful to bards, but it's not a "must-have". Robert Plant is eligible.

The valk's cheat death isn't really that useful after the early levels, IMO. The biggest selling point is that there are some good polearms in the game and a properly developed valk (very simple development path, BTW) can do a ton of damage.

Bard vs gadgy: both are fun to play. The bard is a touch easier to develop (assuming they are your L&T guy). A gadgy is weak in the early game, since you won't have the pieces for many gadgets and the omnigun isn't great. The bard is best in the early and mid-game, but is a little weak at the end. The gadgy can be a real butt-kicker in the endgame, both with powerful gadgets and a seriously upgraded omnigun.

The best melee type based on raw damage is a lord. It's a pain to develop a lord properly and it takes a while to get the 2 weapons that make it work, but when all is said and done they can be a total meat blender.

I guess that's enough lecturing for now.

[roqua]

Bards don't get locks and traps. Unless they get it later. I just had one in my last party. I had to force open in the monestery or wait till i brought myles back since I had to get the wird key anyway. Unless its a mix up with the two mods messing up the characters. But manual doesn't say its a class skill for bards either.

[dteowner]

Bard most certainly do get L&T from the beginning. My current party has a bard doing to lockpick duties, in fact. If you ain't be gottin' it, must bes doze mods yer usin'.

[NFLed]

"Cormac, your party will work, although you're a little heavy on casters IMO."

I agree with this. A heavy caster party can work but it's vulnerable unless you know what you are doing in terms of protecting and utilizing the casters. Personally I like to have 3 "fighter-types" for the front line, at least two pure casters, and one either caster or miscellaneous.

[Cormac]

Thanks to all for replying !

Allright, so I'm dumping the bishop, God forgive me, but I'm keeping the Lord. I'm also dropping the gadgeteer in favour of a faerie ninja. . . or maybe a bard, I dont know yet. And taking the bishop's place will be another melee type, either a valk or a fighter. Maybe it's best if I take a fighter if developing a Lord is hard enough work.
If this group doesnt work, I can always come back, edit this post and blame my failure on all of you :biggrin:

Thanks again.

[Corwin]

Somewhere back in the Dot archives I remember reading a post which gave several party builds that worked well for different types of play. Dte might remember it better than I do, but it might be worth taking the time to find it. SEARCH is your friend!! :)

[Cormac]

Thanks Corwin, but I probably wont need it -- and furthermore when I lately tried to access the rpgdot archives I have always drawn a blank page.
I looked at a couple of sites linked in this and the other Wizardry threads and for better or worse I'm all set to go. I've actually changed my mind again when it comes to the bishop, so he's in and the priest is out; and finally I chose the ranger over the ninja. The rats in the monastery dont stand a chance.

[Cormac]

I suppose most of you already knew that Scorpia wrote a strategy (http://www.just-rpg.com/default.asp?pid=49)guide for Wiz8 some time ago for JustRPG ? I've always enjoyed reading her stuff.
There's also one for Pool of Radiance 2 (http://www.just-rpg.com/default.asp?pid=87).

[Corwin]

The strategy guide for PoR2 should be quite short!! Get a good soft pillow!! :biggrin:

[dteowner]

The good news, Cormac, is that any party build can work. Some are just easier to do than others. If you get one that doesn't seem to be working, start again. You want to be reasonably happy with what you've got before you leave the monestary. That's how I've ended up with so many "monestary only" parties--that's where I generally pull the plug on experiments.

With your lord, you want to give him at least one weapon that falls in the mace/flail group to get that skill built up. After you get to the Rapax Castle (that's gonna be a while), you'll be dual-wielding two maces and bringing the whoopa$$.

[Cormac]

You know, this morning I realised that no one in my party has the lockpicking and trap removal skills. . . so I'm thinking the ranger should go in favour of someone who does have those skills, like the bard or the ninja. What do you think ? Can I survive without a rogue-like guy ? I really like the make up of my party but if a lockpicker/trapremover is essential, I'll change it again.
About the lord: yes, I read in Jandrall's page about a mace or flail that's a great off hand weapon and I'll keep my eyes peeled for it.

What a game though -- I've been playing with the demo a long time, and I just now found a used copy at EBGames (premade party only for the demo, no character creation). What's also great is that I found a copy of Wiz7 that I can run in DoxBox in one of the abandonware sites from HiddenX's thread.

[Corwin]

Yep, I played Wiz 7 again last year and enjoyed it more than the first time I played it!!

[magerette]

You know, this morning I realised that no one in my party has the lockpicking and trap removal skills. . . so I'm thinking the ranger should go in favour of someone who does have those skills, like the bard or the ninja. What do you think ? Can I survive without a rogue-like guy ? I really like the make up of my party but if a lockpicker/trapremover is essential, I'll change it again..

Again, I'm just a beginner on this game, but I think it would be pretty hard to go the distance without a L&T char. Unless you have the strength of will to walk away from that trapped chest that just might contain the plus 10 vorpal sword of smiting or whatever. ;)

If you go the RPC route, you will have access to a rogue, but I didn't care much for him myself.

There's also the possiblity of dual-classing one of your characters at some point. Then you could keep your party closer to your original build perhaps. There are some spells your casters can use as well(Knock Knock and Divine Traps)that might help out.
Best of luck : )

[Cormac]

Again, I'm just a beginner on this game, but I think it would be pretty hard to go the distance without a L&T char. Unless you have the strength of will to walk away from that trapped chest that just might contain the plus 10 vorpal sword of smiting or whatever. ;)

If you go the RPC route, you will have access to a rogue, but I didn't care much for him myself.

There's also the possiblity of dual-classing one of your characters at some point. Then you could keep your party closer to your original build perhaps. There are some spells your casters can use as well(Knock Knock and Divine Traps)that might help out.
Best of luck : )

No, I cant resist a locked chest; I finally picked a ninja, despite the other options like spells.
Thanks !

[magerette]

Way to go Cormac.
That's a flavor I really wanted to try, but couldn't fit in. Maybe next time--but I promise, it won't be a solo Ironman fairy ninja--not in this lifetime, anyway :-/

[dteowner]

Hey Cormac, forgive me for being dense, but what did your party actually end up being? And while we're at it, what's yer makeup, magerette?

[magerette]

I've got a plain vanilla human fighter, human valk, Mook ranger, Hobbit bard, Elvin bishop and Fairy mage.
At the moment I have one RPC(Vi), but that will probably change--I enjoy the RPC contributions to the storyline, but really six characters are more than enough to manage.

[dteowner]

Pretty similar to my current crew- human valk, lizzy fighter, human monk, mook ranger, human bard, faerie bishop. I designed the party melee heavy.

During one run, I wanted to hear Vi's commentary, particularly at the very end of the game, but I still hated to pick up any RPCs since they take a share of the XP. I ended up taking her to the final map as a level 7 or so. Needless to say, she died instantly and often (most people seem to finish the game in the low 30's), but I brought her back before all was said and done. I was actually a little disappointed, but it was interesting to see what she had to say.

[magerette]

The voice acting is really great in breathing life into all the characters. In more recent games, there don't seem too many npcs with a personality that isn't whiny, irritating or just yawnable. My whole party is fun to listen to, even tho they repeat themselves a lot. ("Vinning this battle vill be as easy as finding flies on a cow!")

As far as the xp leeching, I agree that is a factor, too. It really isn't necessary to have the extra firepower most of the time, and those level ups are getting few and far between now that I've survived past level ten.

[dteowner]

I've used all the voices at one time or another, although I certainly prefer some of them. I admit I would have liked a few more. A stereotypical (and probably offensive) black male and female would have been nice. I'd enjoy starting a battle to something like, "Oh no you didna!" (maybe animate the portrait for an equally offensive head bob) A John Cleese would have been nice, too. Maybe a Canadian or two-- "It's all aboot da ice, ya hey." Maybe a New York Jew. How about a true intellectual, in the dry overbearing professor vein? No guy from India- a criminal omission! The possibilities are endless, even if most of them would have gotten them sued. Perhaps a hick Hoosier (in the interest of fairness).

[Cormac]

Here's my jolly bunch:

Human Lord
Lizard Fighter
Fellpurr Samurai
Elf Bishop
Faerie Mage
Fellpurr Ninja (I really hesitated for this one's race).

Oh, it's a jolly bunch, hey.

While I'm at it, what's the deal with all the cursed items ? WTF ? But I'm guessing that my bishop's ability to remove cursed items works, because I've equipped a bunch of the stuff and unequiped it without problems . . . or is it something I'm not getting ?

[magerette]

@ dteowner
Yeah, it would be nice to see that kind of variety--I for one am all for sacrificing any needless political correctness in the interests of humor anytime. I think that clueless Hoosier has been done, tho-in Baldurs gate--that guy that follows you around til you long desparately to kill him?:p

@ cormac
Of course you had to make the ninja a Fellpur--obviously you can't trust the fighters with the ale supply, and a fairy couldn't have hauled around enough cold ones w/out becoming encumbered. ;)

AFA the cursed items, other than as a role-playing element I could't possible explain why they are there--I guess the idea is a sword that gives you 3 massive skull-pulverizing hits per turn should come with some balancing. (Damn them.)

[Corwin]

Dte, don't you think there should be at least one Aussie in your mix!! :)

[dteowner]

Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned. How could I forget Crocodile Dundee?

re cursed: a party without a bishop or access to the remove curse spell could be seriously inconvenienced by a cursed item. As magerette points out, it can be a balancing issue as well. Sure, Bloodlust is a cool sword, but doesn't it suck having a character that can't switch to a bow? If it's a fighter, he just has to sit a pick his nose until some critter wanders into range. It's all about choices, which is the beauty of Wiz8.

[Corwin]

Yeah Dte, can't you just see one of your chars going- "You call that a sword? THIS is a sword"!! :)

[roqua]

If you give bloodlust to a sam or lord, you can cast spells. I don't usually do the back into a crook thing. I charge. It just doesn't feel right making the enemy close with you.

But I play diferent than most i think. I don't use sleep or paralyze or terror, etc. I cast damage spells. And healing spells. And I rush and attack. Guardian angel my fairy mage, and lay waste to the enemy.

[dteowner]

With careful strategy, a kamikaze approach can work. Eventually, you're going to get mobbed by some challenging critters, but that's a tradeoff you can make. Yet another example of flexibility that makes this such a great game.

@Corwin- I was originally going to vote for a Steve Irwin voice, but thought that might seem a little inappropriate. Find a new item, and he says, "Crikey, she's a beauty!"

[Cormac]

Shakespeare:
Cry havok, and let slip the dogs of war !

Roqua:
Guardian angel my fairy mage, and lay waste to the enemy.

:)

[GothicGothicness]

The other people here sure gave a lot of advice.... I've spent a lot of time of this game each year. The people here have already given you good advice! I disagree with one thing though, I do think the race matters.

I'd like to put some extra props for the Valkyrie, and the Bard. I love the Bard because I don't like resting, and having one means I can always assure all party members are in full health, has the strongest blessing, all the time, that they're fully rested, strongest haste, etc etc etc without wasting a single MP, besides they can take care of traps and locks.. and use a shield, to not die so easily :D As for the Valkyrie everytime I play through the game, my Valkyrie ends up with 0 deaths, and the highest killing count in the party, in usual she often beats my mage ( even if she has a lot of area effect killer spells ) by about 100 kills. This is because she can be amazingly powerful with one of the good polearms!

Finally some props for the Lord, I use to have him dual wielding with a curse weapon with bersherk on it.... it gives him an insane amount of attack rounds. My favourite party I made though I kind of regret the samurai is like this, I always play on the hardest setting ( no ironman LOL ):

Mylord - Dwarf Lord 490 kills / 1 deaths
Feli - Human Bard 470 kills / 3 deaths
Xoria - Fearie Alchemist 450 kills / 4 deaths
HariKiri - Felpur Samurai 296 kills / 2 deaths
Valkyrie - Human Valkyrie 580 kills / 0 deaths
Rav - Rawulf Priest 68 kills ( LOL ) / 0 deaths

Formation
Front Mylord, HariKiri
Left Side Valkyrie ( long range polearm )
Right Side Rav ( or middle if NPC on right side, long range staff )
Middle - Feli,Xoria ( slings )

[Cormac]

I thought about taking a valkyrie, but since my priority was having a lord and a samurai, I found it preferable to have a fighter in my last melee spot and not having to worry about a trickier character progression for that one.

[magerette]

@gothicgothicness
Yes, this is a very supportive board and I for one am grateful to everybody who's helped.
I definitely am with you on the bard and valk.
I've played a bard in several rpgs, but this is the first one where she wasn't just a passive in the background entity. She has as many or more kills than the Ranger, but that may be because I have yet to get the positioning just right-;)-half the time he doesn't seem to be able to use his bow.
@Cormac
Keep us posted on how the Lord works out for you. I think you were probably wise not to try all the elite characters in your first party. Though my bishop is giving me no trouble at all.
It really illustrates what dteowner said, the variety and possibilities of the game--and obviously the replayability that all these different choices give you. There's always next time.

[Drithius]

I'm going to practice a bit of necromancy on this topic since it's such a great wealth of info... and to ask an opinion.

I was going through the party creation motions to finally complete a [full] playthrough...

So far, have:
Samurai, human
Valkyrie, dwarf
Monk, human
Bishop, faerie
Alchemist, elf
Gadgeteer, hobbit

My main concern is that I'd like to have a good variety of classes so that items I find don't necessarily get relegated to merchant fodder. I was thinking of replacing the monk with a rogue for more potential sword-wielding + pickpocketing? Or perhaps, instead, the valkyrie with a lord?

Any comments, suggestions?

[Corwin]

I'll let Dte comment on this as he's the expert, but I wouldn't have a Sam and a Valk. Also, I was never a fan of the Gadge. I like a Ninja (fairy of course).

[dteowner]

Do I hear my name? ;)

If you're running anything after the 1st patch (the "final" patch was the 3rd), pickpocket has been completely nerfed. Completely worthless skill. Don't make any party plans based on pickpocket.

Don't know if you're looking to min/max, so that will change any advice significantly. The good news is that Wiz8 is so well done that *any* party can be made to work. Some will be very difficult, but there's no party that's hopeless. I'll give you some ideas on a party that's pretty optimized, but you can vary it however you choose. Overall, I emphasize melee rather than hocus-pocus, so that will color my recommendations. There's nothing that says you have to be a Disciple of the Pointy Stick, so again you can consider my bias as you review my thoughts.

1) If this is your first run to completion, you want a ranger for autosearch. There's just no substitute. Humans and mooks are decent choices. Although you'll want to emphasize bows, rangers actually do quite nicely in melee with polearms if they're developed for it. With your proposed party, I'd drop the alchy to make room for the ranger. You'll be a little weak on casting overall, but it won't be a crisis.

2) I love Wiz8 monks and humans are a good race for it because they get good stamina. When you get to the later parts of the game, your monk will be getting numerous attacks per round and battles will last dozens of rounds. You'll need stamina for every one of those whacks.

3) Gadgies can be a lot of fun. They stink in the early game but can be very strong by the end. I'd take human over hobbit, though. Gadgies use stamina to use their items and hobbits tend to be a little weak on stamina. With the party you're proposing, your gadgie is going to be your locks-n-trap guy. Make sure you spend your skill points appropriately.

4) Samurais are generally underwhelming. Their access to the wizardry spellbook makes for some interesting options, but you're not really positioning him to be a caster, even a secondary one. Vanilla fighters might be a bit boring, but they really bring the noise. A lizzie fighter with a certain sword you can get early in the game is a beast early on (and eventually you switch to better swords and keep kicking mucho butt). Up to you.

5) Bishops are hard to develop properly. Certainly, it can be done, but it's not a cakewalk. Yours is positioned to be the party healer. Make sure you emphasize the divine spells. For attacking, you might consider the psionic book since it pairs nicely with the divine book.

6) Alchys largely stink. At high levels, they get some very interesting spells, but getting them to that point is less than entertaining, and your gadgie will actually be able to do most of those interesting spells via gadgets. That said, you want to get somebody in your party built up in their alchemy skill so you can get into potion-mixing-for-profit. I usually use my ranger for that, but you could use an alchemist if you wanted to.

7) Unlike Corwin, I don't mind Valks. The "cheat death" thing isn't all that useful unless you really screw the pooch in a fight, but they bring some real damage with their polearms and (since they don't have many skills they need to spend skill points on) they make excellent secondary healers.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask more--I just hate to talk about Wiz8. ;)

[Drithius]

Lol, thanks for all the suggestions, Dte! This won't be my first Wizardry 8 trial, per se' (I vaguely remember a swamp and a volcanic-ee area with rapax from my best attempt 4 or 5 years ago). And I chiefly want a "fun" playthrough - not terribly concerned with min-maxing - mostly just being able to use/see most of what the game has to offer, whether that be items or big bada boom spell effects.

Your ranger recommendation is an interesting one, especially in replacing my alchemy requirements with his/her abilities. Am I right in my belief that manually searching with other professions leaves you open to surprise attacks?

The only game version I have is 1.2.4, so the latest one. Is pick-pocketing completely defunct then? Howso? Is it basically impossible to get a successful skill check? Or do NPCs no longer carry anything of value? Truth be told, the more I consider it, I'll likely make a rogue regardless; I'd like to resurrect a feisty hobbit D&D PnP lass.

In the same vein as that rogue, the samurai is mostly for roleplay. I mean, how many other games have samurai! !!? :)

So, if I were to take the valk as the third in the front line, that would leave bishop + ranger + either gadgeteer, bard, or another mage class as the final 6th. Hmm.

[Corwin]

Hey Dte, I didn't say I don't like Valks. What I said was I wouldn't have BOTH a Sam and a Valk in the party. I would have a Ninja as my locks and traps and for the CofC!! :)

[skavenhorde]

Can someone refresh my memory on how lightning strike worked? IIRC it was totally random or maybe based on your encumbrance.

I like Sams because sams are cool :) and for the same reason as drithus, you don't get to play samurais too often. I would have liked to have gone for the Asian trifecta with sams, ninjas and monks, but I hate monks. To me they're a boring class no matter what game I'm playing. Give me weapons not fists of fury.

[Drithius]

Pulled the trigger (again).

Samurai
Rogue
Valkyrie
Bishop
Gadgeteer
Ranger

I'm sort of worried about losing a specialized caster... but hoping that the latter 4 professions in that list shore up the loss.

[Damian Mahadevan]

What patches should i use on this game?

[skavenhorde]

Here is the 1.24 patch (http://wizardryvault.com/downloads/)and I would highly recommend Wizf8ast. It speeds up the movement of the monsters.

[JDR13]

What patches should i use on this game?

The final version was 1.2.4. Here's a link (http://www.shacknews.com/file/920/wizardry-8-patch#) to the patch.

There's also an unofficial patch to speed up combat in the game. I didn't use it when I played, but I'm sure someone here can point you in the right direction if you want to try it.

*Edit* Oops...looks like skavenhorde beat my reply.

[Damian Mahadevan]

Thank you.

[DeepO]

I chiefly want a "fun" playthrough - not terribly concerned with min-maxing - mostly just being able to use/see most of what the game has to offer, whether that be items or big bada boom spell effects.
You might also take RPC (recruitable characters) choices into consideration.
For a "fun" playthrough you definitely should use them I think.
Imo, there are 2 which are easily better than the others - first one is a valkyrie which has ties to the main plot and as such has somewhat more content and second one is a monk who can´t cast spells, but is great unarmed or with staffs, is an unique character with fun comments and, unlike other RPCs, will go with you almost everywhere.
If you count these two into your setup, you can replace valkyrie with some other class in your base party composition.

Also, don´t underestimate fun factor of bards - they´re very useful, at least in the early to mid game, and without them all those nice instruments will be for naught! Plus, if you have gadgeteer and bard in your party you got all useful psionic spells covered and can develop your bishop in other directions (I´d probably go with priest and mage spellbooks in such a setup, leaving alchemy for the ranger).

I wouldn´t worry about not having a spellcasting specialist much - the last 2 spell tiers are not really all that useful, buffs + debuffs + portals are where it´s at in W8 and all the most useful ones are in the first 5 tiers.

Samurai, rogue, gadgeteer, bard, ranger and bishop (plus later added valkyrie and monk RPCs) sound like a potentially fun ride to me.
You might also consider the bard to supply your rogue roleplay option (female hobbits are among the best choices for bards) and replace the rogue with a "slice´em, dice´em" lizardman fighter, for example.

Consider making the ranger mook - mooks get a tiny bit of race specific story content and later you get access to a pretty useful weapon only they can wield.

[dteowner]

Your ranger recommendation is an interesting one, especially in replacing my alchemy requirements with his/her abilities. Am I right in my belief that manually searching with other professions leaves you open to surprise attacks? You are correct, plus you cannot run with manual search on. You WILL be running--sometimes for convenience and sometimes screaming like a schoolgirl.
The only game version I have is 1.2.4, so the latest one. Is pick-pocketing completely defunct then? Howso? Is it basically impossible to get a successful skill check? Or do NPCs no longer carry anything of value? Truth be told, the more I consider it, I'll likely make a rogue regardless; I'd like to resurrect a feisty hobbit D&D PnP lass.Totally nerfed. It still works and there's still good loot to steal, but SirTech made a couple changes that make it *very* impractical. First, if you fail, you lose access to the vendor for a period of time until you can bribe/sweettalk your way back into their good graces. Second, if you succeed, vendors "notice stuff missing" and gradually connect it back to you. So, regardless of your results, you end up barred from vendors. That's bad news since the ones you'd want to steal from are also the ones you need to shop with. Third, Brenda claimed that they had somehow coded pickpocket results somewhere so that doing the save/reload dance wouldn't work. Never have been a pickpocket in any rpgs I played, so I can't verify that last part personally.So, if I were to take the valk as the third in the front line, that would leave bishop + ranger + either gadgeteer, bard, or another mage class as the final 6th. Hmm.That's the beauty of Wiz8 right there. It's impossible to cover everything in a single party so you have to make some choices and your experience with the game will be measurably different based on those choices.

[dteowner]

Can someone refresh my memory on how lightning strike worked? IIRC it was totally random or maybe based on your encumbrance.It's based on a stew of stats and skills, although encumberance isn't one of them. For all practical purposes, you might as well call it random because the influence of the character numbers seems rather minor compared to the influence of the "roll".

[skavenhorde]

It's been awhile and I normally don't have a pickpocket either, but couldn't you use charm on the vendors to get back in their good graces?

Thanks for the reminder about lightning strike. For some reason I thought that encumbrance had an effect on whether or not you initiated it.

[dteowner]

Well, if you're encumbered you lose attacks and if you don't attack you won't get the lightning strike critical, so I suppose there is a link, but AFAIK the actual encumberance value isn't part of the calculation.

[LuckyCarbon]

I'm actually tempted to start another playthrough already but I'm having a heck of a time deciding on a party.

DTE ( or other experts ), is lockpick necessary? Can a combo of knock-knock and bash get you through the game instead?

Can the Rogue backstab from any position or do they have to be within melee range?

I know the general consensus about dual classing is bad in Wiz 8, but I'm tempted to take a Bard to 11 (heal all, haste, soul shield, magic screen), power train Lockpcking and Music and then switch him to a Valk or Fighter to use back row polearms. I wasn't that impressed with the L14 & L18 instruments during my last playthrough. Thoughts?

[dteowner]

DTE ( or other experts ), is lockpick necessary? Can a combo of knock-knock and bash get you through the game instead?Theoretically, it's possible to go without. You have to outfit one of your toons with the Poseur's Hat (always found on the monestary first level) until you get strength and the knock spell. Eventually, you'll want at least 2 toons that can capably cast the knock spell. Without "stacking" knocks, you'll never get thru the 8-tumbler locks on the Peak (among others).
Can the Rogue backstab from any position or do they have to be within melee range?It's a melee attack, so you've got to be "eligible" to make the attack.
I know the general consensus about dual classing is bad in Wiz 8, but I'm tempted to take a Bard to 11 (heal all, haste, soul shield, magic screen), power train Lockpcking and Music and then switch him to a Valk or Fighter to use back row polearms. I wasn't that impressed with the L14 & L18 instruments during my last playthrough. Thoughts?There's nothing to say you couldn't do that. Bards do fizzle a bit in the late game so a plan to address that can't be all bad. As you note, you'd have to invest a fair bit of time training the music skill.

[sakichop]

Are their any mods to lessen the# of monsters even with the speed mod I found fights taking forever. Especially the wasps. I enjoyed the begining of wiz 8 very much but fighting seemingly hundreds of the same monsters in the same area ruined my enjoyment about mid game.

[Drithius]

One quick question regarding Bishop spell picks for someone intimately familiar with Wizardry. I'm wondering which spells to pick up during level-ups in preparation for saving future spell picks.

This site (http://www.cheatbook.de/wfiles/wizardry8class.htm) says to opt for Mind Stab, Heal, Web, & Missile Shield and then to save further picks. Are these safe bets? I don't recall the details on the skill system and if/how skilling up in certain schools will preclude me from skill-ups in other schools; so, I'm somewhat ambivalent about forging ahead blindly.

[dteowner]

There are a few buffs you want to run constantly. Missle shield is one of those. Heal is kinda a no-brainer. Mind stab is OK, but I wouldn't call it pivotal. I find web to be disappointing. I'd put Shrill Sound much closer to "pivotal" since it's the first decent area-of-effect damage spell you can get.

You want to pick spells so that the books overlap. So, for instance, if you have Light and keep it running at all times (you should), your fire skill will increase. If you use energy blast for your level 1 attack spell, it also boosts the fire skill.

My "mandatory buffs" list:
Light, enchanted blade, missle shield, magic screen, armorplate (and you'll want to cast element shield and/or soul shield in the first round of most fights)

FWIW, I wasn't tremendously impressed with your link. While most of the advice is decent, some of it is kinda fuzzy and I noticed a couple things that were quite simply wrong. I did some Google searching for Jandril's site to offer you a top-notch alternative, but it doesn't seem to exist anymore.

[Drithius]

Aye, I was actually looking at that link because it offered a different angle on things. I've looked at Jandral's spotlights as well actually, using the wayback machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20090221214559/http://www.geocities.com/jandrall/Wizardry8/), as well as this Gamefaq on character creation (http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/374906-wizardry-8/faqs/41767).

Basically, I'm just trying to get a handle on the skill system all over again - it's just so foreign from the standard D&D stuff. I experienced the same sense of being lost with Drakensang as well. Different is good though.

edit: just stumbled upon a restored version of Jandrall's site: http://www.zimlab.com/wizardry/jandrall/

[Scrav]

I really should get into Wizardry 8 again. It's just so much fun planning out a party with character classes and skills. It's just a shame that the actual game, mainly because of the combat, isn't quite as good.

Bishops do confuse me, because there is either too much choice or too much to cover, depending on the other classes in the party.

[JDR13]

Bishops do confuse me, because there is either too much choice or too much to cover, depending on the other classes in the party.

Just have your Bishop concentrate on whatever spell books aren't well covered by other party members.

Reading this thread really makes me want to play through Wiz 8 again. I'd like to give some of those hybrid classes a try. Unfortunately, the length of the game goes against it for me. It's just too damn long to fit into my gaming schedule again.

[DeepO]

Just have your Bishop concentrate on whatever spell books aren't well covered by other party members.
Yes.

Imo a much better advice than all those guides recommending to play these 100-points-in-everything ultimate bishops developed via extensive engineering of spell picks, shitload of power training and grinding to hell and back :).

[HiddenX]

Just a reminder:

Wizardry 8 on the second, third ... run can be fun with a "not so perfect" or unconventional party, too. If you survive Arnika Road you can finish the game, too.

[bloodlover]

Hello sexy people. I will resurrect this topic for now. I've just started playing Wizardry 8 last night. I made a party with my own characters and started playing. So far so good, almost out of the monastery. I have however a few question :

1. How do I identify items?????
2. Can I reach str, dex and other stats above 100 ?
3. I've read some guides on the internet (some were more or less crappy) and they all say to avoid bishops and engineers for first play. Are they that confusing?
4. I found some computers in a room… Is there a way to hack them?
5. What the hell is this?
http://i54.tinypic.com/2nj93mg.jpg
6. Is there a newb friendly setup? I went with the classic fighter, mage, priest, ranger, rogue and valkyrie (just because I'm into norse lore) etc but I am not really sure about the character creation. I did get to the end of the monastery though.

[JDR13]

Hello sexy people. I will resurrect this topic for now. I've just started playing Wizardry 8 last night. I made a party with my own characters and started playing. So far so good, almost out of the monastery. I have however a few question :

1. How do I identify items?????
2. Can I reach str, dex and other stats above 100 ?
3. I've read some guides on the internet (some were more or less crappy) and they all say to avoid bishops and engineers for first play. Are they that confusing?
4. I found some computers in a room… Is there a way to hack them?
5. What the hell is this?
6. Is there a newb friendly setup? I went with the classic fighter, mage, priest, ranger, rogue and valkyrie (just because I'm into norse lore) etc but I am not really sure about the character creation. I did get to the end of the monastery though.

1. Whether or not you can identify an item depends on that character's "Artifact" skill. Always give an unidentified item to the party member with the highest level of Artifact to see if they can identify it. There's also an Identify spell.

2. No, at least from what I remember.

3. Complete nonsense.

4. No. There will be computers in the game that you can interact with, but you don't hack them.

5. That's in the Monastery, right? I don't remember if it actually does anything.

6. That party should do fine.

[dteowner]

Hello sexy people. I will resurrect this topic for now. I've just started playing Wizardry 8 last night. I made a party with my own characters and started playing. So far so good, almost out of the monastery. I have however a few question :

1. How do I identify items?????
2. Can I reach str, dex and other stats above 100 ?
3. I've read some guides on the internet (some were more or less crappy) and they all say to avoid bishops and engineers for first play. Are they that confusing?
4. I found some computers in a room… Is there a way to hack them?
5. What the hell is this?
http://i54.tinypic.com/2nj93mg.jpg
6. Is there a newb friendly setup? I went with the classic fighter, mage, priest, ranger, rogue and valkyrie (just because I'm into norse lore) etc but I am not really sure about the character creation. I did get to the end of the monastery though.1. Right click on the item. It will bounce against your artifacts skill (Gads, I think that's the skill name but I never actually put points in it so I'm not certain—something starting with an "A") to see if you succeed. Otherwise you have to pay a vendor.
2. You can't put points into an ability after 100, but items with ability bonuses can push you over that limit.
3. Bishops are a major pain for newbs, but I don't know that gadgeteers are that tough.
4 and 5. Did you not find the bell room? Ring the bells, Igor!
6. You've pretty well got the easiest "newb party". Since pickpocket has been completely nerfed, rogues aren't "mandatory". You could put a bard or gadgeteer in the rogue's slot (make sure you pump their locks-n-traps if you do) if you wanted.

Word of warning. Arnika Road is a challenge. Don't question your party build if you struggle on that map.

[Motoki]

I started this game years ago as a total newb to all of Wizardry and I had a Mook Gadgeteer in my party. I don't remember having any issues with him at all.

[bloodlover]

Well I managed to reach Arnika. Did some questing there, got some chick with one eye in party and some drunk dude that can't pay his debt at the local bar.

Is there a way to better see the journal? A way to get more details maybe? I'm really confused about what to do next...I found the tower but there's no way to get it and like I said, the journal does not offer any kind of help...

Also I didn't patch the game. Is that a bad thing?

[Drithius]

Have you used the text field in NPC dialogues at all? Where you type in a keyword and see if the respective NPC has anything to say?

To start you off, try asking the people in town about the three artifacts (Astral Dominae, Chaos Moliri, & Destinae Dominus). Ask them about the Black Savant or other people/places you might be curious about - the game is set up brilliantly in this regard.

If all else fails, just wander around a bit :) That in itself is terrific fun and can clarify things greatly without having to spoil yourself with walkthroughs and such.

[bloodlover]

Have you used the text field in NPC dialogues at all? Where you type in a keyword and see if the respective NPC has anything to say?

I don't think so... Could you please detail a bit about this?

Also I am 100% against walkthroughs since the fun is totally killed this way.

[Drithius]

When you talk to an NPC, in the mid-lower right hand corner, there's a text field you can type into. There's even a + sign if you want to add the word to a list you can cycle through when talking to new people. Over time, if you do this with many different people, it answers many a question you might have about the backstory.

[JDR13]

Also I didn't patch the game. Is that a bad thing?

There's at least one patch that fixes some minor bugs. I believe the latest version of the game is 1.2.4

Here's (http://www.fileplanet.com/82895/80000/fileinfo/Wizardry-8-12/23/01-patch) a link.

[Corwin]

You also should get the wizfast patch to speed up combat. It should be readily available.

[Drithius]

Speaking of which:

http://www.foerster.cc/temp/wolfie/ <— the speed mod located here, as well as handy spell tables, etc.
http://www.zimlab.com/wizardry/jandrall/ <— backed up Jandrall site w/ some more handy info.
http://www.zimlab.com/wizardry/flamestryke/wizardry8/flamestrykes_w8.html <— Flamestryke's de facto reference site… but spoilers galore.

[skavenhorde]

Ah crap! First Realms of the Haunting and now Wizardry 8. Please for the love of the rat god stop playing my favorite games. I read about it and then I want to play it.

If you guys have any mercy at all please at least don't mention Bloodlines. I have 3 other games I have to get through before a RotH and Wizardy 8 replay. I can't add another one to that list :P

In case anyone doesn't realize it, I'm only joking. But it does make me want to give this game another whirl. As it stands I have too many to play before I can even think about this one though.

Have fun Bloodlover and definitely use Wizfast.

[Ball_Breaker]

This thread comes at the right time! I'm doing my first playthrough at Wiz 8, and so far I found it awesome: I'm really enjoying it, and I'm just at the beginning...
About my party, I started with

1 Dracon Fighter
2 Lizard Samurai
3 Faerie Mage
4 Ranulf Priest
5 Mook Ranger
6 Hobbit Gadgeteer

I tried to have a 'balanced' party, what do you think guys?

[GothicGothicness]

Looks like a fairly good party. When it comes to character creation / development wiz 8 is second to none.

[Ball_Breaker]

Hey GothicGothicness, thanks ^^ Sorry, I know I'm a bit off topic, but how can I resurrect a dead character (my mage died very soon in the monastery lol)?

[GothicGothicness]

There is a resurrection powder hidden in a safe in the monastery, much later on there is also a spell, so that you don't need to use the powder anymore. You can also find it in other places, even if it is rare.

[Ball_Breaker]

Thanks again, I'll look for that powder when I got time ;).

[dteowner]

There's also a powder on the waterfall. You've got to grab it before sliding down, because it's impossible to stop on the ledge where the powder is.

[Ball_Breaker]

Ah, good to know that ^^ thanks a lot dteowner!
Btw, I'm still shocked that I missed it when it came out, what a shame...

[GothicGothicness]

The more people talk about this game the more I think about making Tactica more like it.

Except it is not going to be so much combat. There is really too much combat in Wiz 8.

[JDR13]

There is really too much combat in Wiz 8.

Yeah.. as much as I enjoyed Wiz8, I have to admit the amount of combat was one of its few weaknesses. That, and the fact that NPCs don't react to you looting their stuff.

[Ball_Breaker]

Maybe 'cause it's the first time I play a Wizardry game, but I've found combat to be so funny that I don't care (for now, at least) the number of fights: definitely one of the best RPG experiences I've ever had. I just started another party btw:

1 Dragon Valkyrie
2 Mook Samurai
3 Hobbit Gadgeteer (very nice class indeed)
4 Felpurr Ranger
5 Elf Bishop
6 Faerie Monk

I'd like to see how it works. Any opinions?

[dteowner]

Hope you made the gadgy a female. If not, you're going to run out of stamina too often because hobbits get a smaller base. There's a female-only stamina item in Arnika that will help you a lot.

If you're going to run a melee faerie, you would have been better off to make it a ninja rather than a monk (even though monk is my favorite melee class). There's a special weapon (quarterstaff, so build that skill if you go this route) for faerie ninjas that you can get in Trynton.

Obviously, you're melee heavy. Personally, I'd consider that a good thing, but it does require some care. As I've said on here a thousand times, the beauty of Wiz8 is that ANY party can be made to work. Some will be harder to develop, but there are none that doom you to failure. If you like your party, go with it at least as far as Trynton. Usually, Arnika is my cutoff for "experimental" parties, but since you're new to the game you might want to go a little farther before deciding whether you like the way the party is coming together for you.

[Ball_Breaker]

Hope you made the gadgy a female. If not, you're going to run out of stamina too often because hobbits get a smaller base. There's a female-only stamina item in Arnika that will help you a lot.

If you're going to run a melee faerie, you would have been better off to make it a ninja rather than a monk (even though monk is my favorite melee class). There's a special weapon (quarterstaff, so build that skill if you go this route) for faerie ninjas that you can get in Trynton.

Obviously, you're melee heavy. Personally, I'd consider that a good thing, but it does require some care. As I've said on here a thousand times, the beauty of Wiz8 is that ANY party can be made to work. Some will be harder to develop, but there are none that doom you to failure. If you like your party, go with it at least as far as Trynton. Usually, Arnika is my cutoff for "experimental" parties, but since you're new to the game you might want to go a little farther before deciding whether you like the way the party is coming together for you.

Thanks for the advices, as I said it was an experiment: I'm still a newbie with this game, and for now it didn't work well for me, so I'll switch to my first party, which is was more balanced for me, even if I messed up a bit with spell choices. Too bad that I can't change them :(.

[Drithius]

There's no real problem in making mistakes with spells for priest, mage, or ranger. Now, if you had a bishop in the party, that would be a different matter.

[Motoki]

I normally think of roll your owns as being very bland, but I loved the character interactions and random comments in this game. The personalities were interesting and always surprising me and/or giving a good laugh.

I agree the combat was a bit of a chore at times and the Rapax castle has to be one of the most obnoxiously repetitive areas of any game I've ever played. Still, it's a classic and someone really needs to do a game with this party style again.

[dteowner]

I agree the combat was a bit of a chore at times and the Rapax castle has to be one of the most obnoxiously repetitive areas of any game I've ever played. Still, it's a classic and someone really needs to do a game with this party style again.Worst part of the Rapax Castle was making sure you didn't get pulled into a battle when you were near Ferro. Nothing worse than having the best merchant in the game run off and get himself killed...

According to a certain very old man on this site, Frayed Knights is the first quality title in a long time to scratch that Wiz8 itch. You might want to take a look.