Becoming a mage

[Maylander]

Allright, so I wanted to play a mage in my second game, and went straight to the Monastery (got knocked down and dragged in by the first Warrior that saw me). Now I'm a Warrior of the Order (level 10, just completed the city quests and entered Chapter 2), without ever having the option to become a mage (I can use Crystal/Fire/Frost, but not Seals).

So, how does one become a mage? It's obviously not by going straight to the Monastery; you'll end up a Warrior of the Order no matter what.

I suspect it has something to do with Harbor Town.. ? Perhaps, if you do all the quests there for the Inquisition, and for the mage in the Gutter, they'll give you some sort of pass that will let you join the Monastery and become a mage?

If that is the case, then the ideal start (thinking back to Gothic 1 here) would be to do all the quests for the Bandits, up to the Dons quest to go to the city, and then save a "Choice" game there, after which you can:
1) Do the quests for the thieves in the city, and join up with the Don.
2) Do all the quests for the soldiers (+mage) in the city and get a pass to the Monastery where you:
a) Become a Warrior of the Order
b) Becoma a mage

Is this correct, or is the mage path entirely different from what I suspect?

[Sarven]

I suspect it has something to do with Harbor Town.. ? Perhaps, if you do all the quests there for the Inquisition, and for the mage in the Gutter, they'll give you some sort of pass that will let you join the Monastery and become a mage?


Precisely. You'll get a letter of recommendation from Commandant Carlos allowing you to choose your path.

[leth]

Just to add a little here. You can finish all the swamp quests, and even do 3/4 Don's quests at the Harbour city, before you switch to the path of the Order.

[Maylander]

Completed the mage game now. Fun to blast people, but the runes are somewhat.. lacking. Well, they're not, they're just available too late in the game. What's the point in learning "Pick lock" halfway through Chapter 3? I already have all the money and items I want/need. Backtracking 75% of the game to open chests is out of the question.

Also, one level 4 rune? That's it? A rune you get so late, there's no point in even getting it? The few cases where it really shines are doable using scrolls; you don't even need the rune, especially since scrolls cost half the mana (they always cost 50% of the rune mana cost, except transform etc which cost 0).

[Jaga]

I must have done something wrong in my game.. I was initiated in the Monastery as a warrior, even though I attempted to complete all the steps which would allow me to enter as a pure Mage. Really irritating.

I completed all assigned tasks from all masters. I completed all tasks from the "mage" (Master Belschwur?) in Harbor Town. Only when I had completed 4/4 Order tasks in town and received the summons back to the Monastery did I go and talk with the Inquisitor, and was never given a choice. I stopped when he asked me to follow him out of the hall with the flame to come post here.

I simply refuse on my first playthrough to be anything but a pure mage (my favorite path in RPGs). Perhaps I missed a step that wasn't posted here, or that I simply didn't do and needed to? Any help would be appreciated.

[fragonard]

You have to get the harbor town mage's approval before you get to the monastery to become a mage. The best way is to start in the bandit camp for XP, then go to the town for the recs and faction choice. Don't leave town without the letter from the Commandant AND the mage's approval.

[Dhruin]

Can't tell you how to go back but the choice occurs when you first arrive at the Monastery, well before meeting the Inquisitor. When Pallus (IIRC) meets you and reads your letters, he says you go into the room on the left - or the room on the right, depending on whether you want to be a novice or recruit. I gues you went the wrong way and became a warrior of the order.

[Jaga]

So essentially, I have to sneak INTO town first before ever hitting the Monestary up, do all the mage's quests first (and order-aligned available quests), and THEN go to the Monestary and make the choice after getting a recommendation.

In a nutshell, I've wasted the last two days of gameplay because the info either wasn't available, or the game's choices weren't clear. Great. I was in the swamp doing quests until I got fed up with their backstabbing, then decided to hit the monestary and become a mage. Apparently the only way to accomplish this is to sneak into town and get friendly with Belschwur first, then the Order.

This was one gripe I had with the game when I first looked at it - buggy quests, vague references and shoddy directions. I'm all for a hardcore RPG, since I grew up on them, but having wasted days of my life really is over the top. Now I have to see if I have a savegame where I was about to leave the swamp, and re-play the last 30+ hours. I've really lost a horrible amount of time that was spent questing, wandering, listening to dialogue, testing stuff out, etc.

Thanks for the tips guys, just wish that it wasn't this maddeningly hard to pick what you want to play in the game. It'll cost them some review points when I start writing, to be sure. Cheers for the community in any event.

[mastorofpuppetz]

So essentially, I have to sneak INTO town first before ever hitting the Monestary up, do all the mage's quests first (and order-aligned available quests), and THEN go to the Monestary and make the choice after getting a recommendation.

In a nutshell, I've wasted the last two days of gameplay because the info either wasn't available, or the game's choices weren't clear. Great. I was in the swamp doing quests until I got fed up with their backstabbing, then decided to hit the monestary and become a mage. Apparently the only way to accomplish this is to sneak into town and get friendly with Belschwur first, then the Order.

This was one gripe I had with the game when I first looked at it - buggy quests, vague references and shoddy directions. I'm all for a hardcore RPG, since I grew up on them, but having wasted days of my life really is over the top. Now I have to see if I have a savegame where I was about to leave the swamp, and re-play the last 30+ hours. I've really lost a horrible amount of time that was spent questing, wandering, listening to dialogue, testing stuff out, etc.

Thanks for the tips guys, just wish that it wasn't this maddeningly hard to pick what you want to play in the game. It'll cost them some review points when I start writing, to be sure. Cheers for the community in any event.

LOL, blame the game for your own stupidity? My first time through this was easily figured out, multiple people in the game tell you how to become a mage.

[Uriziel]

Jaga, you can continue your game and just use magic as you would as a mage. As a mage you would mostly use crystal magic(fireball), which is available to you as a warrior of the order. The only thing you'll be missing is seals and runes....neither of which were all that important and aren't really available until very late in the game.(being able to use the rain of fire rune is the only I'd bother with, but it is not available until very late) The main important things will be a fireball, mana, and some armor. All the rest is fluff for the most part.

[Jaga]

LOL, blame the game for your own stupidity? My first time through this was easily figured out, multiple people in the game tell you how to become a mage.

Perhaps I was incorrect about the community.

[Dhruin]

It honestly makes little practical difference in gameplay whether you're a mage or a warrior of the order -- they use some magic, anyway. And mages still melee fight, quite a bit.

I can appreciate you think it's vague but I think it makes logical sense. The inquisition arrests all immigrants on sight, which means you need to head to the bandits, or stay under the radar until you are in town. You are clearly warned that if the inquisition spots you, you'll get arrested.

But honestly, you haven't "wasted" anything - you're playing the same game, with very minor differences in the gameplay.

[Maylander]

I did the exact same thing Jaga. I played through the game first as a bandit (intended), then wanted to be a mage but ended up automatically becoming a warrior. I figured the most logical place to be a mage was the Monastery, so the sooner I could enter, the better, right?

Wrong. Have you to do Harbor Town first, and side with the Inquisition.

In any case, my 3rd game was a mage, and like Dhruin says, the difference is surprisingly small. The main attack spell of a mage is always crystal magic, which warriors have access to as well, so it's definetly possible to be a spell oriented warrior.

[JDR13]

I did the exact same thing Jaga. I played through the game first as a bandit (intended), then wanted to be a mage but ended up automatically becoming a warrior. I figured the most logical place to be a mage was the Monastery, so the sooner I could enter, the better, right?

Wrong. Have you to do Harbor Town first, and side with the Inquisition.

That's one of the few complaints I have about Risen, they could\should have made certain things a little more obvious….

[mastorofpuppetz]

That's one of the few complaints I have about Risen, they could\should have made certain things a little more obvious….


No, your flat wrong, making things tooobvious ruins the adventure, ruins the rewarding aspect of the game, becomes just another, go straight here to point b generic RPG. Everything you need is explained in the game easily enough, please, it is not that hard. People ike you are why games keep getting dumbed down.

Also, the game explains to u if you want to learn the ways of magic where you need to go, this game makes you pay attention, and thats a good thing.

[revjwh]

Mastorofbadspelling,

I find your tone and words offensive. You are the reason forums need to ban members who cannot maintain civility and still disagree.

Grow up please or leave the forums.

I agree, Risen is a bit dense in terms of some of the character development dynamics - which have nothing to do with the immersiveness of the world and detracts from the overall game because it has such high potential to waste countless real-life hours when one learns of such a huge mistake.

[mastorofpuppetz]

Mastorofbadspelling,

I find your tone and words offensive. You are the reason forums need to ban members who cannot maintain civility and still disagree.

Grow up please or leave the forums.

I agree, Risen is a bit dense in terms of some of the character development dynamics - which have nothing to do with the immersiveness of the world and detracts from the overall game because it has such high potential to waste countless real-life hours when one learns of such a huge mistake.

revilikegamesthataredumbeddown

Talk about being a hypocrite, namecalling, Insults, How old are you? Yet you tell me to grow up. This game is about consequences, if it was all laid out for you, there would be no mystery, no thinking about your actions and fear of consequences, thats a large part of the mystery of these games, sorry, but the game does no need to be dumbed down more.

Also, learn the difference between spelling, and bad typing.

[Jaga]

There is a distinct difference between mystery of quests, adventuring, areas, and the overall plot... and the mystery of playing the *kind* of character you want to play.

You should have a clear and obvious choice of "I want to bash things, and give a rat's arse about magic", or "I want to bash things and magic intrigues me", or "I love roasting things and floating around, and hate the thought of being a warrior". The fact that the choice is not obvious at all, and never chosen but instead earned through very specific actions you perform, makes it highly frustrating.

I love great mysteries, puzzles, and challenges. I highly dislike being forced to play a character I did not make because it was vague how to do it.

I respect your wishes that the game not hand-hold players, and agree with that. But disagree strongly with carrying that over into what amounts to "character creation", whether it is up front or through actions - it should be more clear. And I really dislike your tone in this topic.. some of us are probably old enough to have grandchildren. I don't, yet.. but my cousin does.

Anyhow, I've gone and completely started over. I figure while I lost 40+ hours of playing around, exploring, figuring out mechanics, and learning how to fight via melee quite well.. all of that experience can be put into a new game. I'll chalk up my first game as a "Warrior that I didn't finish".

[JDR13]

Talk about being a hypocrite, namecalling, Insults, How old are you? Yet you tell me to grow up. This game is about consequences, if it was all laid out for you, there would be no mystery, no thinking about your actions and fear of consequences, thats a large part of the mystery of these games, sorry, but the game does no need to be dumbed down more.


I find it ironic that you would ask him how old he is, because I have a feeling that most of us are wondering how old *you* are.

You obviously misunderstood what I was saying, but I can understand how someone with your level of intellect would do that.

[mastorofpuppetz]

I find it ironic that you would ask him how old he is, because I have a feeling that most of us are wondering how old *you* are.

You obviously misunderstood what I was saying, but I can understand how someone with your level of intellect would do that.

The old, "I have nothing valid to say, so ill insult the poster" routine. Funny, no one else here is asking how old I am, yet you are the one who stoops as low as to become the forum troll, insulting like a 2 yr old having a fit because someone disagrees with you. Hypocritical, dont you think (Look in the dictionary for what that means).

I did not misunderstand what you said, but I can see how someone with your level of intellect would think that,

[JDR13]

The old, "I have nothing valid to say, so ill insult the poster" routine. Funny, no one else here is asking how old I am, yet you are the one who stoops as low as to become the forum troll, insulting like a 2 yr old having a fit because someone disagrees with you. Hypocritical, dont you think (Look in the dictionary for what that means).

I did not misunderstand what you said, but I can see how someone with your level of intellect would think that,

Yeah that's it, I must be a troll who's been here since 2006, with over 5200 posts. Makes perfect sense!

You began the whole ordeal when you started with insults. Do I need to quote you? I think it's quite clear who the troll is here. Or is it just a coincidence that it seems to be you versus everyone else in this thread?

That makes 3 different people you've attacked now in this thread. Please continue so we can see what happens. :)

[Dhruin]

Back to the topic, please...

It's your game, Jaga, but I'm curious why you thought it was worth ditching your game. Mages in Risen still melee fight and Warriors of the Order still use magic - the distinction really isn't much. In fact, if I loaded up two separate saves and stripped the characters of their distinctive armour, I think it would take you a while to figure out which character was which.

[Stavut]

After lurking here for over a year it might be time for the first post :P thought I already registered but I guess not hehe…

For what it's worth, I understand the complete frustration with having spent 2 days on the wrong path than the one you wanted. The game does outline it in some way but if someone is captured at the very beginning then there isn't much to do.

However I my self like that "harsh" consequence as that's how Gothic games in my opinion have and should be where you can so easily get your hands burned for making a wrong move.

And now for the reason of my post. Being rather meticulous (typo) I have some 300 savegames, and I am quite certain I have one right before making the choice and talking to Pallas after receiving my letter of recommendation (only 5 LP used for prospecting otherwise plenty to spend). You'd be welcome to it or anyone else who would like to try out a mage or anything of that kind, or if you're stuck somewhere I might be able to help as well.

Hope that's ok with the forum guidelines otherwise ofcourse feel free to delete the message :)

Goodluck to all, enjoy Risen and thanks for PB for a great come back.

[Omega]

And now for the reason of my post. Being rather meticulous (typo) I have some 300 savegames, and I am quite certain I have one right before making the choice and talking to Pallas after receiving my letter of recommendation (only 5 LP used for prospecting otherwise plenty to spend). You'd be welcome to it or anyone else who would like to try out a mage or anything of that kind, or if you're stuck somewhere I might be able to help as well.

Gosh, that's a sweet thing to offer! Stavut means sweet? ;)
300 savegames! Wouldn't it take you hours to comb out the right one?! ;)

[Stavut]

Gosh, that's a sweet thing to offer! Stavut means sweet? ;)
300 savegames! Wouldn't it take you hours to comb out the right one?! ;)

Nah hehe, but thanks. I tend to give my savegames funny or easy to remember names prior to big stuff, so could get it ready quite fast. Just noticed that there's some attatchment option in the reply box, I'll have it zipped since that's one of the valid extensions.

The character is at level 10 with 95 available LP, and with the harbor town quests mostly pretty much finished and having had the first conversation with Pallas and taking Mage as an option and not an inquisition warrior. As you venture in the monestary you will be presented with the various tasks from the masters.

Again hope it's ok and don't wish to spoil it for anyone, but hope its of any help for those who wanted to become a mage but didn't become one and are without a proper savegame.

Edit: The filesize was larger than the accepted size, I found this free upload site (Danish since I'm from Denmark) and it should be free from malware and such otherwise if anything feel free to delete, here's the link http://www.gratisupload.dk/download/34748/

[Jaga]

Back to the topic, please…

It's your game, Jaga, but I'm curious why you thought it was worth ditching your game. Mages in Risen still melee fight and Warriors of the Order still use magic - the distinction really isn't much. In fact, if I loaded up two separate saves and stripped the characters of their distinctive armour, I think it would take you a while to figure out which character was which.
I believe I read somewhere when first doing research on the game, the classes available, combat techniques, etc.. that "pure mages" were the only ones able to cast spells like Levitation, directly from Runes and using nothing more than mana. Everyone else needs to scribe them onto a scroll to cast them, which while it uses different materials, requires a different sort of preparation, and a totally different execution. One is a "magically enabled warrior who can scribe/use scrolls", the other is a "pure magic user who only needs (permanent) Runes and enough mana.

I would prefer to play the pure path first, then a game with zero magic at all (bandit with thievery), and if I fancy another run through later, perhaps a warrior who blends the two styles. Not getting rid of my old warrior savegame, made a whole new line for this restart.


—snip—

And now for the reason of my post. Being rather meticulous (typo) I have some 300 savegames, and I am quite certain I have one right before making the choice and talking to Pallas after receiving my letter of recommendation (only 5 LP used for prospecting otherwise plenty to spend). You'd be welcome to it or anyone else who would like to try out a mage or anything of that kind, or if you're stuck somewhere I might be able to help as well.

Hope that's ok with the forum guidelines otherwise ofcourse feel free to delete the message :)

Goodluck to all, enjoy Risen and thanks for PB for a great come back.
That's a very generous offer, and had it been posted yesterday I'd probably have grabbed it and maybe even used it. But as it stands, my new game is already past an audience with the Don, and I'm ready to do the town's questline. Perhaps someone else will have a need for it. Thanks for the thought however! :D

I will note this: replaying the same areas and quests that I did the first time, I picked up a few new tricks and strategies for different combatants (monsters) than I originally had. And was even able to defeat several strong opponents (like Brogar) with just a starter sword/shield while taking no damage, and having zero training. So it wasn't a complete loss, more like an adventurer in training the first time through, heh. I do have around 10-15 more hours to reach where I was, I figure.

[Maylander]

Welcome to the forums Stavut. :)

[Zloth]

I love great mysteries, puzzles, and challenges. I highly dislike being forced to play a character I did not make because it was vague how to do it.
It didn't seem vague to me, but then my past experiences with Gothic led me to expect the way of the Mage to be at least a little bit hidden.

The mage class in the Gothic series has always been something of an 'unlockable' class. PB tends to make the mage class more difficult to play than other classes so they put up some road blocks to keep people from just selecting it on a whim. If the road blocks cause you problems, then it's probably best to play a different class anyway.

I suppose they could have just given us a choice of 3 classes right when we washed up on shore with a little note to say that the mage class is harder. That's always a pretty rough choice to make, though, when you have almost no experience with how the game is played. This is, IMHO, a much more natural and effective way of making your character's class choice.

[Jaga]

Actually, this second playthough Zloth, I was able (due to avoiding quest bugs) to finish all of the Bandit camp quests. Once I got inside The Don's area and talked to the NPCs in there, I got a *much* bigger clue as to where a Mage would start their quest. I didn't have that before since I was essentially bugged out and couldn't obtain the last sword piece so I could see The Don. I suppose I could have dropped some LP and tried to pickpocket it, but that is the last thing a mage wants to do.

They did leave clues to playing a pure Mage, but some are obscured for one reason or another. Fortunately the game is good enough that it wouldn't ruin one's enjoyment of it if they had to start over. :)

[RivianWitch]

Well, not to cause another fight, but to be honest, almost every NPC you meet right from the beginning of the game, warns you to stay away from the temples and the Inquisition, and to enter Harbour Town the "back way". Over and over and over again, you are told by several NPC's not to use the front gate of Harbour Town, or to allow yourslf to be "caught" by the Inquisition.

Just as a test, I also went to the front gate of Harbour Town (in spite of all the "warnings") with the intention of joining the mages, and got arrested, and there and then and it was made very clear that if you are "caught" you will not be treated the same as when you manage to "join" on your own account, so I reloaded a previous save and went in the back way.

(I like seeing all that a game has to offer, so I'll play the "arrested" scenario as well later on, to see what the difference is.)

In any case, once you have the recommendations from both Carlos and Belschwur, you immediately get the choice of joining either Mages or Warriors, upon entering the monastery.

[Alistair]

... that "pure mages" were the only ones able to cast spells like Levitation, directly from Runes and using nothing more than mana. Everyone else needs to scribe them onto a scroll to cast them...
Is this true? I'll be embarassed if I played through as a mage and didn't know this...

[Corwin]

Yes, it's true.

[Alistair]

Oh dear :)

[Burress]

Playing through as both a mage and a bandit, I think the rune seals are a waste of lp. If I had bought 15-20 levitation scrolls, 10 telekinesis scrolls, maybe 5 nautilus scrolls, I would have saved money overall that I had spent on runes and gotten just as much use of the spells. The rest of the spells I used less than the amount of their scrolls I received.

It wouldn't have hurt to spell it out clearer that getting caught by the inquisition would eliminate your chance of becoming a mage. Maybe have one of your guides say it emphatically, hey if you are caught there is no becoming a mage, they don't let prisoners in their ranks. Maybe he did and I didn't catch it, but it's not like the game would become all hugs and hand-holding after this one clarification. It would still likely murder you in the woods a couple minutes later. :)

[Maylander]

I actually did find a "decent" use for magic - I recently replayed as something of a battle mage, with rank 4 Axe (rank 6 with two +1 rings), 100 strength (200 strength after using potions and apples), 4th level Seal and some points in mana (in addition to lockpicking 3). I did not use LPs in any of the crystal magics.

The point was the buffing power of the Seals - I primarily used the Berserker spell, as it increases strength by 50, regardless of your strength. This way, you can pass the regular cap of 200 and reach 250, which is a significant damage boost. Also, I had the magic protection rune for defence if needed.

Usually, however, I agree - you might as well just pump points into crystal magic, and get the rest through scrolls. Levitation is the only spell I find myself wanting to use more than my scrolls allow, simply because it often works as a good short cut.

[Alistair]

Yes, I must admit. You go from a period of no gold at all, to more gold than you ever need in my experience, and all the scrolls are sold/made in the same place, so there's never any difficulty having enough scrolls. Agreed on levitation… though I guess it becomes less special when you can just do it :) Ashbeast was also good… and now I come to think of it the firestorm might have helped too :) No idea how I managed to miss this - I do remember it being mentioned in a passing comment, but never thought back to that point. Some information is repeated ad nauseum (temples, no - really?) while some is rarer. I wouldn't have a problem with that, if it struck me as replayable, but it doesn't really.

[TheMadGamer]

Thanks for the tips guys, just wish that it wasn't this maddeningly hard to pick what you want to play in the game.

When the first reviews of Risen started to hit and it became clear that choosing the mage faction was going to be a bit convoluted, I knew then that wasn't a very good design choice.

I liked G2 the best in this regard. It was much easier to get on the path toward the faction you wanted to eventually be with.

Risens' commingling of the mage path/order path was a bad idea in an otherwise fantastic game.

[fragonard]

That's not really true, becoming a mage is easy and overpowered. By level 15 you can max a crystal and have all the misc. seals and stuff. Once you have level 10 magic missile and 100 mana you are unstoppable. It's so easy this way that I'm having a hard time coming up with my next build out.

[Benedict]

I agree, Risen is a bit dense in terms of some of the character development dynamics - which have nothing to do with the immersiveness of the world and detracts from the overall game because it has such high potential to waste countless real-life hours when one learns of such a huge mistake.

I have to say I'm not seeing where these hours get wasted . . . . it's very obvious when you get caught by the inquisition or when you rock up to the monastery without the requisite approval to become a mage rather than a fighter. They tell you straight away that you're now a warrior of the order.

I suppose if you only ever quicksave it might be an issue, but with a game like Risen it's best to have at least one new slot for every hour of real life activity.

[Benedict]

Anyway, I like the fact that the mage paths are always a bit trickier to get onto with the gothics. Gives the (IMO quite appropriate) sense that the secrets of magic are jealously guarded, if it's just a matter of "would you like to be a mage y/n" then it loses something for me.

[TheMadGamer]

Anyway, I like the fact that the mage paths are always a bit trickier to get onto with the gothics. Gives the (IMO quite appropriate) sense that the secrets of magic are jealously guarded, if it's just a matter of "would you like to be a mage y/n" then it loses something for me.

That's an excellent point you make. Maybe if 'magic' was discussed a bit in the game manual, that it's a secrative group, hard to infiltrate and become a part of, players would be better prepared when starting out.

[Maylander]

Hmm, that is actually true Benedict. There's hardly someone standing around with a big ad going: "Want to blow your enemies away with a fireball? Step right up! Two-week-crash-course in magic is available for the low price of nothing at all!"

Most games actually have that approach if you think about it. I greatly enjoy playing a Mage in all of PBs games, and the approach to magic is certainly one of the reasons (in PBs games you actually feel special because you're a Mage).

[Grimire]

…Maybe he did and I didn't catch it, but it's not like the game would become all hugs and hand-holding after this one clarification. It would still likely murder you in the woods a couple minutes later. :)

I laughed so hard when reading this! So true! :P This made me become a member, and i'm also gonna dust off Risen now lol >.<

[HiddenX]

Welcome at RPGWatch!