Falling For Fallout: A (Post-Nuclear RPG) Retrospective

[Dhruin]

In what we hope is the first of an ongoing series of retrospectives, Kawika takes us back to reminisce about playing Fallout and what made this title so special:
I know it’s cliché to start a Fallout article with that endearing quote, but can you think of any words more fitting? I sure can’t. An unmistakable chill went up my high-back leather chair-cushioned spine the moment Ron Pearlman (yes, Hellboy himself!) spoke those words immortal to CRPGers everywhere old enough to remember them. How does one define a game like Fallout? Wow! It’s an eclectic collection of “what-ifs”, “where-tos” and Easter eggs…lots and lots of Easter eggs. It’s the past, the present and the future. It’s science fiction and it’s fantasy with a tinge of reality as often uproarious as terrifying. It was the impetus of a new CRPG development company and the inauguration of a new era in CRPG design and story telling. Perhaps most importantly, however, Fallout is arguably the Godfather of witty, innovative computer gaming as we know it today.
Head here for the entire article (http://www.rpgwatch.com//forums/../show/article?articleid=16&ref=0&id=33).
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=3031)

[Briosafreak]

I should do one of retrospective things myself one of these days, I have been delaying it for too long.

[Brother None]

You guys forgot "Remember Wasteland?"

Oh, and Fallout d20.

[Dhruin]

Picky, picky. But a good point. ;)

[Corwin]

I wonder how many of our readers played/remember some of the great classics like Bard's Tale and Phantasie!! Some REALLY old retrospectives might be fun too!! :)

Great article by the way!!

[roqua]

Great article, great writting. Very interesting and enjoyable read. I'm glad to hear someone else isn't angry at a possible FOOL (if done right).

One note though: they were going to use the GURPS system but lost the contract or something happened. So SPECIAL is a modified GURPS system. If your fimiliar with gurpgs you can definitely see the crossovers and resemblances. I forget where I read this, bit I know I did. And it makes sense if you're fimiliar with GURPS.

[Kawika]

You guys forgot "Remember Wasteland?"

Oh, and Fallout d20.

I actually read a bit about Fallout d20 and had thought about including a blurb about it in the Fallout retrospective, but then decided to add it in more detailed form in a future Fallout 2 retrospective. By then, there would (hopefully) be more info and images to work with. I will be following the progress of Fallout d20 with great interest in the meantime. :)

[Kawika]

Great article, great writting. Very interesting and enjoyable read. I'm glad to hear someone else isn't angry at a possible FOOL (if done right).

One note though: they were going to use the GURPS system but lost the contract or something happened. So SPECIAL is a modified GURPS system. If your fimiliar with gurpgs you can definitely see the crossovers and resemblances. I forget where I read this, bit I know I did. And it makes sense if you're fimiliar with GURPS.

Thanks, and good point. :) The way I understand it, Steve Jackson, creator of GURPS, agreed to the full use of his GURPS system in Fallout, but then pulled out of the deal once he realised how violent the game would become. What a wimp! :p

[xSamhainx]

Never played Wasteland, but the Fallouts have all been fun. The console one was pretty lame, but I played thru it anyway.

Nice article btw. I actually didnt know about the "Fallout: Warfare" game. I'll have to look that one up!

[BillSeurer]

The way I understand it, Steve Jackson, creator of GURPS, agreed to the full use of his GURPS system in Fallout, but then pulled out of the deal once he realised how violent the game would become. What a wimp! :p

The way you "understand" it is just plain wrong. From Steve Jackson himself:

February 12, 1997
Rumor Control about Interplay
Executive Summary: We wish we knew.

I had problems with a couple of features of the otherwise very impressive alpha version of GURPS Fallout. As I corresponded with Interplay staff about this, I got handed up the ladder but their responses remained puzzling -- and that is the most detail I'm going to give for now.

Just before leaving for Europe last week, I got a call from a reporter asking me to comment on the Interplay decision to drop GURPS. I told him this was the first I'd heard of it. Calling Interplay, and talking with the last man I'd corresponded with, I got first "We haven't decided that, where'd you hear it?," then "Well, we have been talking about it and somebody must have gotten the idea it was decided," and finally "Yes, we have decided to drop it, so sorry."

The statement on the Interplay web site, to the effect that this was a mutual decision of SJ Games and Interplay, is not true. Scott Haring tells me that no written correspondence from Interplay has YET been received at our office. We are not clear what their proposal to finish and release the game without the license entails, for us or for the game, and have absolutely not agreed to it.

I can't imagine how Interplay could take three years working on a GURPS. computer game, and then be able to create and install a completely dissimilar game engine in a few months. Nor have I read (or heard) any explanation of how they might plan to do that. So "no comment" on that for now, too.

I've been invited to meet with Brian Fargo, who I understand owns Interplay, when I'm in LA in a few days. I'll be very interested to see what he has to say. I hope we will be able to announce that this was a tempest in a teacup.

February 19, 1997
Yes, I visited Interplay while I was on the West Coast. Marathon six-hour negotiating session with the programmer who is now in charge of the FALLOUT project. Clearly all the original problems could be resolved; I made a lot of concessions because I want to save the project. The GURPS implementation they've created is *worth* saving. But their decision won't be made by the programmers. All I can say is "wait and see."

March 14, 1997
Interplay Update
I just got a phone call from my contact at Interplay, telling me that they were indeed dropping the GURPS system from the project which has been going forward as GURPS Fallout since 1994. Sigh.

The stated reason was that they were "too far along" with the process of deGURPSizing the game. I asked if I could get any of this in writing. He laughed. But he said he'd talk with others there and "see" if he could send me a letter.

[Briosafreak]

Bill that's one side of the story. If you talk to the guys that were there at the time they will explain that for months Steve expressed concerns about the content of the game, not just the implementation of the mechanics, something they didn't like and I can see why. When he made clear one day that he could redraw from the game completely there was a meeting at Interplay, where they assigned a couple of members from the team to see if at that point it was still possible to create a system that could work in the game without breaking everything that was already made.

Since we are talking about a small team at the time where everyone helped out (Fallout was considered a B game inside Interplay, an oddity that Fargo allowed to be made as long as they would create the game with a low budget and without spending too much resources) , and comprised of many P&P and tabletop games fanatics, it wasn't difficult to create SPECIAL in a record time.

Of course Fargo saw the opportunity to get on with the game without Steve's doubts (and temper) hanging around their heads, and took it, that way he could save on royalties. Of course Steve didn't saw that coming, but it was his fault in the first place, when he tried to remedy the situation it was too late.

In the end fargo got a surprise hit made below budget and got the royalties for himself, leaving everyone happy at Interplay and Steve quite surprised to what had happened.

In the end that was one of the last good moves that Interplay made, but that's another story...

This is the original GURPS Fallout website
http://www.nma-fallout.com/content.php?page=fo-gurps

[txa1265]

Interesting article ... I missed out on the Fallouts until just a few years ago!

[screeg]

It's official: Fallout is now the Beatles for CRPG's. Does a week go by when someone doesn't get teary eyed and rehash everything -in a retrospective no less- that was great (and that's everything) about this game?

[abbaon]

It's official: Fallout is now the Beatles for CRPG's.
Which is only fitting, since "All You Need Is Love" is Fallout 2's major theme.

[BillSeurer]

Bill that's one side of the story. If you talk to the guys that were there at the time they will explain that for months Steve expressed concerns about the content of the game, not just the implementation of the mechanics, something they didn't like and I can see why.

Care to provide a cite?

[Briosafreak]

If you talk to the guys that were there at the time

This is the key sentence here, if you want citations talk to them, here is some help
http://www.nma-fallout.com/content.php?page=features&id=2

I never heard Fargo's version though, I wonder if he remembers what was going on at the time...

[Karmakaze]

A great read; it brought back a lot of memories. Thank you.

[BillSeurer]

This is the key sentence here, if you want citations talk to them, here is some help
http://www.nma-fallout.com/content.php?page=features&id=2

You made the claim so you need to provide the proof not foist it off on me. Where'd you here what you claimed? From who specifically? When?

[Arma]

Well, Fallout is still the best non-fantasy RPG out there, despite the fact it was released 10 years ago and I managed to get my hands on it 2 years ago. And I never managed to like the sequel.

[Briosafreak]

Bill the reason Kawika posted that version of the events, wich has been in the net for many years, with slight variations, is simply because that's how we heard the story in the first place. If you have doubts again I advise you to go and talk to the devs from those days, Boyarsky and Cain are still great fans of GURPS and like Steve Jackson, something that not all of of them did after a while, I'm sure they might give you some clues on the events.

The basic story reads something like this, from a post at NMA from an old Interplay dev:
Wasteland was more than a "spiritual ancestor" to Fallout.

The original project that Interplay started was going to be Wasteland 2, only at the last minute EA refused to let Fargo use the Wasteland title.

Interplay then renamed it Fallout: A GURPS Post-Nuclear Adventure, and were going to use the Steve Jackson RPG system (thanks mostly to Tim Cain's love for the GURPS game system and Fargo's desire for a known product).

After a very rocky relationship between the development team and Steve Jackson Games, Interplay decided to drop both Steve Jackson and GURPS from the title.

The project finally became known as Fallout.

I only post public statements, for anything else again try the sources I showed you, and you can judge for yourself.

[araczynski]

sigh... and then EA opened up its bowels and commenced spewing endless rivers of vomit onto the scene, and lo and behold, it was downhill from there :(

i think my fondest memories are still from Knights Of Legend from long dead Origin. What I wouldn't give for a modern remake of that :)

[Corwin]

I love it when an article produces debate and discussion, especially when it's of a high level!! :)

[Horst Wessel]

I find it odd that people who love first Fallout didn't enjoy the sequel so much. I loved it, and played it lot longer than the first game... I think both FI and II are fantastic

[Dhruin]

The sequel is good but I did enjoy the original more. The first was more....concise. The opening was better (I thought the Temple was pretty lame), the game blew me away, the ending was fabulous (perhaps my favourite ever).

The second introduced some welcome interface improvements but I felt it dragged a bit in places and the story didn't grab me as much. The whole thing wasn't quite as poignant. Plus (and this isn't the game's fault) -- I'd already experienced the art and setting, so it loses a bit of its "wow" factor. Then there's the excessive pop-culture references...you get the idea.

[JDR13]

The sequel is good but I did enjoy the original more. The first was more....concise. The opening was better (I thought the Temple was pretty lame), the game blew me away, the ending was fabulous (perhaps my favourite ever).

The second introduced some welcome interface improvements but I felt it dragged a bit in places and the story didn't grab me as much. The whole thing wasn't quite as poignant. Plus (and this isn't the game's fault) -- I'd already experienced the art and setting, so it loses a bit of its "wow" factor. Then there's the excessive pop-culture references...you get the idea.

I couldn't have said it better. The 2nd Fallout also had quite a few bugs.

[Corwin]

Yep. Dhruin has encapsulated my feelings precisely too!!

[abbaon]

I find it odd that people who love first Fallout didn't enjoy the sequel so much. I loved it, and played it lot longer than the first game... I think both FI and II are fantastic
And now I'd like to read to you a little poem I wrote the other day. I call it "Fallout 2 in All-Caps".

*ahem*

DISCRIMINATING AGAINST TRIBALS ISN'T NICE

GHOULS ARE PEOPLE TOO

SUPERMUTANTS AND NORMALS, CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

EVEN SQUATTERS HAVE TO LIVE SOMEWHERE

"IRRADIATED HUMANS MUST BE EXTERMINATED, SIEG HEIL AND PRAISE JESUS" - NOT SO FAST, HITLER!

ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE

DA DA DA-DA-DA

ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE

DA DA DA-DA-DA

ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE

LOVE

LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED

Thank you.

[VPeric]

To be honest, I quite dislike it. First, the form: I don't see why every paragraph needs to have a tittle, and I feel this takes away from the article - it appears too "bunched up". And secondly, the actual content: I don't see an actual point anywhere - loads of stuff are mentioned passingly, but, for example, gameplay is missed completely. On the other hand, there's a full paragraph on the SPECIAL system, which is not of big importance in the bigger picture. In total, the whole article seems a bit... weak.

Of course, maybe we simply don't agree on what a retrospective article is, so please, do not take offense.

:)

[Serpent]

I saw your name and was wondering if you are related to me. My name is Robert Bonnewell. I know our name is not very common so I thought I'd ask.
Do you have any relative in Arizona that you know of? If you'd like to e-mail me you can at smrpb@hotmail.com.
Anyway, I enjoyed reading your thread. I never played Fallout but it did remind me of a Pen and Paper game I often played called Gamma World.
Im a big time gamer too and have been playing for about 10 years.

Hoping to hear from you - Robert

[Corwin]

Serpent, in case he misses your post, why not send him a PM as well!!