Baldur's Gate - Retrospective

[woges]

Resolution Magazine have a short retrospective on Baldur's Gate (http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/resurrection-baldurs-gate/) - a timeless classic so sayeth the wise Greg Giddens.
Baldur’s Gate defined a generation. A wealth of role-playing games were born from the success of BioWare’s classic, and the generation of gamers at the time were inspired and amazed by its achievements. It’s games of this impact that push the boundaries of what the medium is thought to be capable of.
Baldur’s Gate wasn’t a difficult game to learn. Its design allowed the modified AD&D Second Edition rule set to work its magic behind the scenes, leaving the player to concentrate on enjoying the experience of the narrative and characters. Knowing how the rule system worked and taking the time to master all the elements involved made the experience a little less punishing along the way. But the true magic behind the game was that, whatever the player’s level of knowledge, Baldur’s Gate remained accessible to all. Nothing was overly complicated, and the initially harsh combat simply encouraged a more cerebral approach. Simple controls and well designed menus kept things tidy and intuitive, all adding to its phenomenal success.
More information. (http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=13770)

[Ergonpandilus]

OMG I just loved the article and agreed with every word. Damn I feel old and nostalgic right now. Lot of people are saying that bg2 is the game but for me its bg1. The freedom, the ambient sounds (!), music, ruleset, quests, locations and of course characters are precious to me like my own childhood memories. I was on my gaming "peek", old enough to understand and read english and yet not too old to be interested on other things like booze and girls. I think i could fill your scrollbar with everlasting memories of baldur' gate, but instead I suggest you to install and play it.

Candlekeep and Gorion is awaiting you child. ;'-)

PS. What is this "optimised" version?! What I've missed?

[xSamhainx]

Baldur's Gate was my first crpg, and really the game that got me hooked on the genre. I'd had a few D&D rulebooks, and made dozens of characters, but could never find anyone else that wanted to play pen&paper D&D. So it was a dream come true, allowing me to actually experience it solo.

I never finished it back then, I wasnt really the completist that I am these days, and there were other things (like girls and partying) that were in competition for my attention. Finally played it all the way thru last year, it was great to go thru the areas that I remember, then proceed thru fresh material that I'd never seen (including ToTSC) and finish it completely. What a glorious experience, for lack of a better term. I know that's a bit corny, but i swear - seeing Sarevok fall, to win this epic game for once and for all, it was truly glorious.

If you choose to pick it up and give it a whirl, please - dont let Candlekeep and the beginnning areas scare you off. Many a prospective player is turned off by the initially boring and extremely dated-looking foray into the game. Stick with it, the later areas, quests, & npcs are well worth the initial tedium!

[guenthar]

They are probably talking about Baldur's Gate TuTu when talking about an optimised version. Baldur's Gate TuTu moves Baldur's Gate into the Baldur's Gate 2 engine and optimises and improves things.

[bjon045]

I don't think so. It will be re-released next week by atari so it probably just includes something to help it run on vista/win7.

[rune_74]

Does it make anyone else feel old when people mention BG as their very first crpg? Cripes....I am getting old.

[guenthar]

It is hard to remember what was exactly my first crpg but it was from the list below.

WWOB
Ultima 5
Final Fantasy 1

[DArtagnan]

You guys are young ;)

Baldur's Gate was a great game - but to me it was more a modern version of the true classic and ultimate non-linear party-based AD&D CRPG known as Pool of Radiance.

Pool of Radiance didn't really suffer from any significant issues, unlike Baldur's Gate - which had horrible pathfinding and questionable AI scripts. Besides, AD&D 2nd Edition (or any edition) was never meant to be done in real-time and all the Goldbox games had fantastic turn-based combat with a great tactical feeling.

Still, Baldur's Gate was great.

[JDR13]

Great retrospective. Baldur's Gate is a true "classic" among crpgs...it will always remain one of my favorite party-based games.

[rune_74]

You guys are young ;)

Baldur's Gate was a great game - but to me it was more a modern version of the true classic and ultimate non-linear party-based AD&D CRPG known as Pool of Radiance.

Pool of Radiance didn't really suffer from any significant issues, unlike Baldur's Gate - which had horrible pathfinding and questionable AI scripts. Besides, AD&D 2nd Edition (or any edition) was never meant to be done in real-time and all the Goldbox games had fantastic turn-based combat with a great tactical feeling.

Still, Baldur's Gate was great.

Heh, no issues with pool of radiance? You don't remember having to read the manual for text in the game?(a primitive copy protection) or the fact it was 3 or 4 years behind the other software released at the time. There were bugs as well....and the combat was ugly as hell. However, it was one of the first to get D&D right....I even remember playing those side scroller krynn games...

My first was Bards tale 1....that and ultima's were my vices back then. I started with part 3.

[DArtagnan]

Heh, no issues with pool of radiance? You don't remember having to read the manual for text in the game?(a primitive copy protection) or the fact it was 3 or 4 years behind the other software released at the time. There were bugs as well….and the combat was ugly as hell. However, it was one of the first to get D&D right….I even remember playing those side scroller krynn games…

My first was Bards tale 1….that and ultima's were my vices back then. I started with part 3.

The manual thing wasn't an issue if you had one :)

The Journal Entries were cool, though, with tons of flavor.

But most games back then had their own unique copy protection schemes, and that wasn't considered an issue by legitimate owners. It wasn't until it became a rarity that people realised how annoying it was :)

3 or 4 years behind what? I have no idea what you're talking about. This game was quite advanced and far ahead of its time in terms of features and the way it represented a truly epic and comprehensive CRPG experience. It might not have been the prettiest game in existence - but I don't really remember thinking it was "behind the times" in any way whatsoever.

Maybe it was the platform you played it on?

No game more advanced than Tic Tac Toe is free from bugs, but I don't remember any bug affecting my game - no.

Combat ugly? Nah.

It seems we don't really agree here, huh? ;)

Anyway - my first was actually Bard's Tale as well, or at least the first I played seriously. A fantastic game in its own right.

[Konjad]

Awsome game I still replay from time to time. That was my first cRPG game (I was only 9 years old when I bought it, or shall I say parents bought me it for christmas :p) and because of that my feelings for Baldur's Gate are special (it was my favourite game until I played Planescape Torment in 2005).

[JDR13]

(it was my favourite game until I played Planescape Torment in 2005).


Baldur's Gate > Planescape Torment ;)

[skavenhorde]

Heh, no issues with pool of radiance? You don't remember having to read the manual for text in the game?(a primitive copy protection) or the fact it was 3 or 4 years behind the other software released at the time. There were bugs as well….and the combat was ugly as hell. However, it was one of the first to get D&D right….I even remember playing those side scroller krynn games….

Everything you just mentioned was part of why I loved that game. Combat was ugly??? Ok, if you say so. I thought it was a dream come true (I was like sammy. Had tons of D&D books, but not really anyone to play with). As for the journal, dude, didn't you ever bring that to school/work to read? That thing was awesome.

Basically, I'm in total agreement with DArt.

Oh and those sidescroller Krynn games were extremely difficult, but fun. I think it was the first time I played a character that I read about in a novel. Pretty cool playing Raistlin and Tasslehoff. Although, I never did pass either one of those games.

Heroes of the Lance (http://www.mobygames.com/game/heroes-of-the-lance)

Dragons of Flame (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dragons-of-flame)

[rune_74]

Everything you just mentioned was part of why I loved that game. Combat was ugly??? Ok, if you say so. I thought it was a dream come true (I was like sammy. Had tons of D&D books, but not really anyone to play with). As for the journal, dude, didn't you ever bring that to school/work to read? That thing was awesome.

Basically, I'm in total agreement with DArt.

Oh and those sidescroller Krynn games were extremely difficult, but fun. I think it was the first time I played a character that I read about in a novel. Pretty cool playing Raistlin and Tasslehoff. Although, I never did pass either one of those games.

Heroes of the Lance (http://www.mobygames.com/game/heroes-of-the-lance)

Dragons of Flame (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dragons-of-flame)

I never said I didn't like it...I said it was ugly, and it was....however it worked quite well...I owned every gold box game there was except buck rogers was thata gold box game?

[DArtagnan]

I never said I didn't like it…I said it was ugly, and it was….however it worked quite well…I owned every gold box game there was except buck rogers was thata gold box game?

No, YOU think it was ugly - there's a difference :)

[skavenhorde]

I never said I didn't like it…I said it was ugly, and it was….however it worked quite well…I owned every gold box game there was except buck rogers was thata gold box game?

I didn't say you didn't like it. I just thought it funny the things you complained about were the things that I loved about it, that's all. I still think you're nuts with the ugly graphics or combat. I spent at least an hour or two getting every color just right and every weapon just perfect for my characters. You gotta remember this was way back, I believe in EGA days. Things weren't all that pretty back then ;) And those journals were like P&P modules. Look at the map, go to #4 in the book and read what is in the room. I thought it brought a little bit of the P&P modules to the game.

As for Krynn, you just brought back old memories of that game and was just talking about it. I wasn't attacking you or anything like that.

To bring this back to the subject of Baldur's Gate, I thought one of the coolest features it had was the weapons and armor you wore actually showed up on your character. It's a silly little detail, but one that I thought was pretty amazing at the time.

[zakhal]

Oh and those sidescroller Krynn games were extremely difficult, but fun. I think it was the first time I played a character that I read about in a novel. Pretty cool playing Raistlin and Tasslehoff. Although, I never did pass either one of those games.

Heroes of the Lance (http://www.mobygames.com/game/heroes-of-the-lance)

Dragons of Flame (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dragons-of-flame)

I played the dragons of flame with c64 tape. Not sure if it was my first crpg though but I was quite amazed by it. I didnt know there were any novels until like 5 years later and as soon as I found out about them I read them all in quick session.

I never passed the game either. I always got lost in the maze sooner or later. Lucky that I even got that far because I didnt really know what the game was all about until I read the books years later.

[joxer]

I loved both BGs… And will never forget the "you must gather your party before venturing forth" annoyance. Although it was getting on my nerves back then, somehow I miss that thing in recent party based RPGs. :)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Everything you just mentioned was part of why I loved that game. Combat was ugly??? Ok, if you say so. I thought it was a dream come true (I was like sammy. Had tons of D&D books, but not really anyone to play with). As for the journal, dude, didn't you ever bring that to school/work to read? That thing was awesome.

That's a difference. Me, for example, had no knowlefhe of (A)D&D at all, and even less of the rules.

Hence my irritation.

I had a hard time figureing things out, and the fights became hard for me - I always thought it would be so because I'm not into the (A)D&D rules system.

And to develop an RPG that had almost no social skills at all ... That was evben more irritating to me, because I considered social skills to be "normal" in ANY RPG ...

Time has proved me to be wrong. What is considered "NORMAL" in RPGs are fighting skills, no social skills. Cynically said, social skills are for wussies (and I'm sure everyone of the Codex would agree with that).

[JDR13]

Not knowing D&D rules at the time didn't lessen the experience for me at all. The BG games were challenging, but never frustrating to me. I also loved the huge variety of different monsters. I was already a fan of D&D monster lore from reading some of the monster manuals, even though I had never actually played D&D.

[Relayer]

You gotta remember this was way back, I believe in EGA days. Things weren't all that pretty back then

But it's all relative - you didn't KNOW things weren't all that pretty until later when graphics advanced.

I have to look at videos or pictures of some of those old games since sadly, I got rid of all my DOS games back in 93 or something like that and didn't get back into PC gaming until 2000 with... wait for it... BALDUR'S GATE! And I loved every minute of it thinking how far PC RPGs had advanced since those Gold Box titles.

Anyway, looking at those videos/images I think "wow, that's pretty hideous"... and even playing games today like M&M 5 & 6 which I just downloaded from GoG... BUT back then those were actually awesome graphics.

I remember gaming on my Tandy PC in CGA (4 color graphics!!!). What about those Atari 2600 games? I'm old enough to have been around for those... we huddled around the TV in AWE!

[tornnight]

If you want the best Baldurs Gate experience, you have to get the Big Picture Modification.

It has BG1 & BG2 in the updated engine with tons of addons and bug fixes.

http://www.spellholdstudios.net

[skavenhorde]

But it's all relative - you didn't KNOW things weren't all that pretty until later when graphics advanced.

Can't agree more. I remember being in awe of Ultima 5. I drooled over the screenshots in RUN magazine. They looked ten times better than Ultima 4. You could actually see your reflection in the mirror!!! That was beyond cool (at the time;))

Still even back then CGA sucked. I played the CGA version of Defender of the Crown and while I liked the game I still thought CGA was horrible (compared to intellivision or even the C64).

When Baldur's Gate hit I couldn't believe my eyes. Like I said before, you could actually see the armor/weapons. A huge graphical leap from the Gold Box days as far as I was concerned.

I still didn't mind the graphics in the gold box games and play FRUA from time to time. They still have a small, but dedicated modding community that have done some amazing stuff.

[Cassius]

You don't remember having to read the manual for text in the game?(a primitive copy protection).
PoR's (and CotAB's) copy protection used the irritating code wheel. Sometimes it was pure guesswork matching the characters: fluid, curvy elvish script doesn't lend itself to rendering by a C64 or Apple II. Later entries in the series used the Journal as copy protection.

Printing the Journal was really a matter of necessity rather than DRM. It contained hand-drawn maps to aid navigation, and illustrations for clues and flavour. Those would not have been possible to render to the screen with any fidelity on 80's systems. Also they would have had to package yet another disk to contain the text, which would have meant more expense and disk swapping.

And I loved every minute of [BG] thinking how far PC RPGs had advanced since those Gold Box titles.
I find it's a case of one step forward and one or two backwards. PoR featured a non-linear main quest. A free roaming game world without hand-holding devices like level scaling. Flexible party composition, hirelings, and quest related joinable NPCs. Challenging combat, with decent enemy AI and an auto battle option that actually works. There are even multiple solutions to certain quests throughout the series. I can think of several big name modern RPGs which fail to rise to Gold Box level. It's true SSI's games lacked social skills and NPC interaction, but, considering how badly written most CRPGs actually are, it's not much of an omission.


What about those Atari 2600 games?

I can still recall the blisters from that damn unergonomic joystick, and the wood panelling effect which was mandatory on all '70s electronics :)

[BillSeurer]

I loved both BGs… And will never forget the "you must gather your party before venturing forth" annoyance. Although it was getting on my nerves back then, somehow I miss that thing in recent party based RPGs. :)

There is kind of an inside joke in Dragon Age: Origins about this. When you go to transition between areas it asks "Do you wish to gather your party before venturing forth?"

My daughter wears the guy who did that voice in BG/BG2 was the same guy who played Teal'k in Star Gate. Anyone know if that is true?

[BillSeurer]

By the way, my first commercial RPG was Wizardry on an Apple II. And then some of the RPGs on the PLATO system from CDC.

[GhanBuriGhan]

At the time it came out Baldurs Gate left me cold - I was totally hooked to the first person sandbox RPG (Daggerfall, mostly) and strategy games at the time. When I played it several years later, I wasn't all that overwhelmed either - partly becasue I don't like the D&D system much (always preferred other systems even in my P&P days). The game only really grew on me when I played it coop with my wife - although clunky, that was a very fun experience.

Oh, and to submit my entry to the geriatric gamer contest: My first RPG was Bard's Tale, on the Amiga. Difficult game, I never got very far. My brother however hex-edited the savegame files to boost his party a bit, and actually finished it... My first PC RPG was Ultima Underworld, which blew me away at the time, first FP 3D game I played. And it completely changed my view on PC's as a gaming platform...

[DArtagnan]

Oh, and to submit my entry to the geriatric gamer contest: My first RPG was Bard's Tale, on the Amiga. Difficult game, I never got very far. My brother however hex-edited the savegame files to boost his party a bit, and actually finished it… My first PC RPG was Ultima Underworld, which blew me away at the time, first FP 3D game I played. And it completely changed my view on PC's as a gaming platform…

Hehe, seems quite a few of us started out with Bard's Tale :)

Incidentally, I first played it on my brothers Amiga - but got the C64 version for my birthday - because I didn't have an Amiga of my own :(

It was the Amiga 1000 - which cost something like 3500$ at the time!

I also happened to experience Ultima Underworld as one of the first PC CRPGs and I was floored by how amazing it was. Then again, we're talking Looking Glass ;)

[Alrik Fassbauer]

You could actually see your reflection in the mirror!!! That was beyond cool (at the time;))

Nowadays no-one would do that anymore. Would be just considered as "cost-intensive" and be dropped.

I also have Bard's Tale [PC version] - but never played it - from an anniversary edition of Interplay games I once found on a flea market.

[Cassius]

Hehe, seems quite a few of us started out with Bard's Tale :)
Yeah, The Bard's Tale on the C64 (well, 128 in 64 mode). I recall watching the tape counter slowly click upwards while I waited for my game to load … so many hours of watching the tape counter.

Yeah, The Bard's Tale on the C64 (well, 128 in 64 mode). I recall watching the tape counter slowly click upwards while I waited for my game to load … so many hours of watching the tape counter.

You encounter
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