Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn

[Thaurin]

I recently continued with this game after finishing Gothic II. As there is no BG2 forum here, it was high time to create a topic for this ultimate game of ultimate games. :P

I see that there are more mods than I expected, even a project that bundles BG1 + expansion, BG2 + expansion and several large mods into one giant game that can be played from start to finish. I mean, WTF!? That should be over 600 hours of gameplay!

Anyway, I bought this game when it first came out and then never played past the first intro dungeon where you were held prisoner. Now, I'm exploring Athkatla and I'm having a rare good time with it, one that I haven't seen since BG1. The side-quests are just so much fun and so well-written, that you cannot stop doing them! I mean, I spent an entire evening freeing some slaves that were kidnapped from the street (as witnessed by a playing boy on the street, you may find out) as entertainment for gladiatorial fights in an entire back section of the local ruffian tavern. Just exploring the dungeon they were kept prisoner in, talking to the customers about the semi-secret "special entertainment", the prisoners' story and the Beastmaster with his animals... That's not even talking about the D&D system with tons of skills and spells where you have actual choices in combat. Talk about strategic.

So what's up with this game? Is there still a community? What mods/improvements should I not miss?

[jcompton]

There's still quite a bit of BG2 development, yes. http://modlist.pocketplane.net is the master list of effectively everything that's been released over the years. There are still a few noteworthy development groups as well.

[Maylander]

Being one of the greatest, if not the very greatest, RPG of all time, the community is still very much alive. You can find all sorts of information about it on various sites such as http://www.gamebanshee.com, and a little google search will give you more mods than you will ever have need of.

[JemyM]

The greatest is Planescape Torment. BG2 are in the top five though, if not second. :)

[Thaurin]

Yes, even with very little effort I found all sorts of mods. But it's a bit overwhelming, I mean I have yet to put serious time into the original game. :) Still there is this undefinable quality to this game that makes it simply pure fun to play and never boring. Very cool.

[JDR13]

The greatest is Planescape Torment. BG2 are in the top five though, if not second. :)


They are both great games. It comes down to what style you prefer. I would rate BG2 higher because of the variety of npc's and weapons\items, which is an area that PST was weak in.

But if you prefer story and dialog, then no doubt you will like PST better.

[KasperFauerby]

So, in case there are any BG2 fanatics out there - which mods, if any, do you recommend, if one has already played through the original BG2 and is thinking of a replay? Also please give a short argument as to why you're recommending a specific mod...

[Fenris]

Unfinished Buisness adds some cool little Quests while keeping the Atmosphere.

The "Imoen Romance" (it turns only into a romance if you actively persue this Path) adds a lot of nice dialogue to this very important and very silent NPC.

Although the Banter-Packs and Flirtpacks are great for more dialogues without any Harm to the Story-line.

Even if WeiDu makes the mods theoreticaly compatible, there are some Places that would be used twice or more and the Game may break i.e. Check the Bodies and the Tashia Mod are using the same Cave near Suldanessar for their Plot and this breaks the Game... so it is important not to install to many Mods... I always install one to much and at some Point the Plot simply stops :(

Improved Illych from the Tactics-Mod is pure Horror ;) though it feels great to kill these guys after 2 days or so of trying ^^.

Edit: My favourite is the Tutu-Mod in combination with the BG1-NPC Mod - but you need to have BG 1 and BG 2 to install it.

[Thaurin]

Imoen Romance? I found her so irritating that I've decided to role-play not wanting to rescue her. ;) Well, maybe if I have to. *sigh*

[JemyM]

They are both great games. It comes down to what style you prefer. I would rate BG2 higher because of the variety of npc's and weapons\items, which is an area that PST was weak in.

But if you prefer story and dialog, then no doubt you will like PST better.

I disagree. In both NPC and equipment Planescape Torment outshines pretty much everything. I do not know a RPG that have that unique NPC's and that many wierd and twisted items with unique features.

[Thaurin]

You just had to bring in Planescape: Torment, didn't you? ;) That's another game I bought pretty much as soon as I laid my eyes on but never gave it the time it deserves. And now I'm into BG2, you just had to make me try out PS:T, too. ;)

[JDR13]

I disagree. In both NPC and equipment Planescape Torment outshines pretty much everything. I do not know a RPG that have that unique NPC's and that many wierd and twisted items with unique features.

Huh? Did you play both games? PST had nowhere near the amount of weapons/items that BG2 did.

I'm talking about amount/quantity here, not uniqueness.

[JemyM]

Huh? Did you play both games? PST had nowhere near the amount of weapons/items that BG2 did.
I'm talking about amount/quantity here, not uniqueness.

You mean like Long Sword, Long Sword +1, Long Sword +2, Long Sword +3, Long Sword +4, Long Sword +5, Long Sword +6, Long Sword +7, Long Sword +8 all in the same game?

[JDR13]

You mean like Long Sword, Long Sword +1, Long Sword +2, Long Sword +3, Long Sword +4, Long Sword +5, Long Sword +6, Long Sword +7, Long Sword +8 all in the same game?

Not at all. I'm talking about the variety of different weapons and armor period. It's not even close.

[Zaleukos]

A rather mundane mod, but I'd not play any of the Infinity Engine games without the Ease of Use mods. Infinite (or at least large) stacks of weightless items such as rings and arrows is a big step towards userfriendliness. Otherwise I havent played around much with mods (the game has enough content for a few replays on its own:)). But I'd like to check out Unfinished Business if I pick it up again.

Tutu is nice if you want to play through the whole saga again.

[Maylander]

JDR is right, if you look at a list over unique items, BG2 has, by far, the biggest list and the most loot. It is also considerably bigger, so it's fairly logical that you can get more varied loot. I agree with what he said: For dialogue and story, PS:T is the better game, but for items, freedom, size, NPCs, BG2 is the better game. It's a matter of taste. Someone is bound to bring up Fallout too, so let's stick to the main topic for now, hehe.

Personally I prefer to just use the original game + the two extra official merchants. From time to time I add an NPC or two because I need it for a particular class combination or want some new dialogue, but most of the time I play it virtually unmodded.

Edit: By the way - get the add-on. Even if you don't play through it, it adds quite a few things to the original game.

[Arma]

Well, don't know for Fallout, but I'd sure bring ToEE - a far batter game than any Infinity engine game. Better combat, nuff said. Given that at least half of every Infinity-based game is combat ...

[Thaurin]

Edit: By the way - get the add-on. Even if you don't play through it, it adds quite a few things to the original game.

You mean Throne of Bhaal? Like what does it add? Is it an add-in, a bit like Night of the Raven for Gothic 2? Oh, and can you keep your save games?

EDIT: Well, don't know for Fallout, but I'd sure bring ToEE - a far batter game than any Infinity engine game. Better combat, nuff said. Given that at least half of every Infinity-based game is combat ...

Better combat than BG2? You seem to imply that you think BG2's combat isn't very good-- or is ToEE's so incomparably brilliant that it does put BG2's in the shadows? Because I haven't played many games with combat as varied, challenging and compelling at the same time as BG2's.

[Arma]

You mean Throne of Bhaal? Like what does it add? Is it an add-in, a bit like Night of the Raven for Gothic 2? Oh, and can you keep your save games?


Yes it does add quite a few improvements even over SoA - a new wizard kit, increased level cap to name a few. And the new dungeon that is quite tough for SoA characters, but still is available.

Better combat than BG2? You seem to imply that you think BG2's combat isn't very good-- or is ToEE's so incomparably brilliant that it does put BG2's in the shadows? Because I haven't played many games with combat as varied, challenging and compelling at the same time as BG2's.

I actually ment both - BG2SoA has only one advantage over other Infinity games, mage duels. Otherwise, combat in it is sub-par, with few exceptions (like the Rogue Stone opened door in the Bridge fight that I mark as excellent), reliant on sheer numbers or equipment or levels. Dragon and Lich fights were near impossible, but otherwise a low level party can deal with any available quest i.e level scaling is missing from the game for the most part. A high level party moves around like a hot knife through butter.

ToEE may have plenty of bugs, a bit more shallow story and other problems, but the 3.5 DnD edition and the excellent combat make up for that. Yes, it is actually that good that it surpasses every other TBS combat in an RPG (well, my opinion, but still) and some of the most memorable fights ever. Even a simple fight against a few low level critters was quite enjoyable unlike most other RPG where it is cumbersome and boring.

[JemyM]

JDR is right, if you look at a list over unique items, BG2 has, by far, the biggest list and the most loot. It is also considerably bigger, so it's fairly logical that you can get more varied loot. I agree with what he said: For dialogue and story, PS:T is the better game, but for items, freedom, size, NPCs, BG2 is the better game. It's a matter of taste. Someone is bound to bring up Fallout too, so let's stick to the main topic for now, hehe.

There were more (amount) thanks to the Infinity engine's ability to create new Dungeons & Dragons items, but there were few items that was unique, original and had their own unique function unlike any other. In PS:T there were loads of items that had their own code written for them, items that had to be unlocked, that could be improved multiple times, wierd items, where BG2 just had the common stuff. The only unique item I remember from BG2 was the talking sword.
Same thing with the companions. The only ones I remember the full story for in BG2 was Minsc, Jaheira Keldorn and Imoen. In PS:T each character had a dark secret that would reveal itself in time, a massive long storyline, "unlocks" that could improve them and an unique race and finally custom coded functions that only that companion would be able to use.

So the only thing BG2 have over PS:T really is quantity of loot/cannonfodder but not the depth of items/npc's. That does not make it a bad game, it's just one step behind.

[txa1265]

So ... why did this have to turn into a competition anyway?

[JemyM]

So ... why did this have to turn into a competition anyway?

Because I am a jerk and an übergeek. :)

[txa1265]

Because I am a jerk and an übergeek. :)

Does that mean you have to be right and get in the last word on technical stuff ... ?

Personally, bickering about which of those two is better is like arguing about which bottle of wine to have on the titanic ...

[Maylander]

.. And the only NPCs I remember from PS:T are Morte, the flaming guy, the armor, the angel and the githyanki, while I remember every single one in BG2, what's your point? And yes, I have played through both games many times.

I still say it depends on point of view and taste, there is no "better game" of the two, they are different and have different strengths and weaknesses. I prefer BG2, you prefer PS:T, it's as simple as that.

[JemyM]

.. And the only NPCs I remember from PS:T are Morte, the flaming guy, the armor, the angel and the githyanki, while I remember every single one in BG2, what's your point? And yes, I have played through both games many times.

I still say it depends on point of view and taste, there is no "better game" of the two, they are different and have different strengths and weaknesses. I prefer BG2, you prefer PS:T, it's as simple as that.

I prefer both as well as Fallout and Fallout 2.

[Thaurin]

I shouldn't even mention Icewind Dale at this point, I suppose. :)

(I still have ID1+2 and all expansions, never installed... *gasp*)

[JemyM]

The Icewind Dale games are great. I really loved Heart of Winter. They are actually great to play in multiplayer as well. They are more focused on dungeonbashing than story however.

[Thaurin]

Yeah, I was toying with the idea of playing through it with a friend online. Is it reasonable to do this if you have never played any of the games before? (And is there any reason I should steer clear of multi-player Icewind Dale 1, instead going straight to Icewind Dale 2?)

Damn, now I'm offline in my own thread. :(

[Thaurin]

Bah, I have a problem with the slaver quest in the boat at the slum district. Maybe it's a known bug, or something? The thing is, I've cleared the entire boat and I got the key of the door to the last room with some trolls in it. Problem is, I can't enter it! It looks like there is a dead body stuck in the door opening, or something. The door is opened, but I can't close it again and the game can't find a path through the door. :(

Is there a solution to this?

[Fenris]

You can teleport your Party to wherever you point your Mouse with a clua_console-cheat...

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/cheats.php

[JDR13]

There were more (amount) thanks to the Infinity engine's ability to create new Dungeons & Dragons items, but there were few items that was unique, original and had their own unique function unlike any other. In PS:T there were loads of items that had their own code written for them, items that had to be unlocked, that could be improved multiple times, wierd items, where BG2 just had the common stuff. The only unique item I remember from BG2 was the talking sword.
Same thing with the companions. The only ones I remember the full story for in BG2 was Minsc, Jaheira Keldorn and Imoen. In PS:T each character had a dark secret that would reveal itself in time, a massive long storyline, "unlocks" that could improve them and an unique race and finally custom coded functions that only that companion would be able to use.

So the only thing BG2 have over PS:T really is quantity of loot/cannonfodder but not the depth of items/npc's. That does not make it a bad game, it's just one step behind.

JemyM,
You can argue until you're blue in the face, but don't try to bend your words now and change the subject. We weren't talking about "depth" of anything. we were talking about the variety of items, pure and simple. Yes, PST has lots of items that could be considered "weird" and "unique", but that has nothing to do with variety.

As far as BG2 being a "step behind", you're welcome to your opinion, as that's all it is.

[Thaurin]

You can teleport your Party to wherever you point your Mouse with a clua_console-cheat...

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/cheats.php

Hey, thanks. This was apparently a bug, because I can't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to go through that open door. The trolls couldn't pass it neither and no walkthrough said anything about having to do something else in that room. I don't like using cheats, but it's better than being unable to finish that quest.

[Zaleukos]

Yeah, I was toying with the idea of playing through it with a friend online. Is it reasonable to do this if you have never played any of the games before? (And is there any reason I should steer clear of multi-player Icewind Dale 1, instead going straight to Icewind Dale 2?)

Damn, now I'm offline in my own thread. :(

It's a matter of taste. IWD 2 has 3rd edition rules (a la neverwinter nights) and somewhat better puzzles and storyline. I had great fun playing both with my girlfriend, with a slight edge for the first one (the second one gets annoying as you at some point dont get XP for killing certain enemies due to XP reward scaling).

If you both have experience of the BG games it might be worth it to play IWD 1 at a higher difficulty level (not at the very highest though). Enemies do extra damage but XP comes in much faster. It also makes you appreciate spells more...

Character building and tactical combat is what is fun in the games.

[Thaurin]

Sounds great! We were thinking of doing NWN2 online, but I'm having more of a thing for doing Icewind Dale 1 now. Also a lot cheaper (if he doesn't have a copy yet). I'm hooked on the Infinity Engine currently anyway. :D

[Delirious Nomad]

My Infinity awards:

Planscape Torment: best story and characters
BG2: best all in all gameplay
IWD2: most funny character development and highest replayability

[Zaleukos]

Thaurin: Make sure you pick up the heart of winter expansion and the free Trials of the luremaster expansion. Heart of winter is quite short, but together they add quite a bit of gameplay... The expansion also makes bards A LOT more viable:)

I'm playing through the BG trilogy with my gf with the Unfinished business mod. Since I dislike micromanagement I never quite got used to mage management in BG2 and only had the mages cast buffs and protection removers, but this time we are using two (my gfs F3/Mage and the unforgettable Edwin). How would you guys go about getting the most out of them?

We'd like to use our melee characters (Annoyman, Korgan, and a buffed up Viconia edited to at least have more HP than Edwin) as screens protecting the mages. My gf wants to do summoning and damage dealing spells since we had fun with those in BG1, but I dont think that will be an effective strategy.

[Maylander]

You get some pretty nasty summoning spells in BG2, and I use them a lot (especially summon planetar later on). Also, as soon as you get chain lightning, finger of death, and later the horrid wilting, mages can do amazing damage.